Digitally encrypted Walkie-Talkies for unlicensed (illegal) short range private group communications

NOTE: Using this radio in encrypted mode is completely illegal, even on FRS channels, at least for Canada and the USA.
Digitally encrypted Walkie-Talkies for unlicensed (illegal) short range private group communications for beginners with 22 expanded FRS channels featuring the TYT MD-390 GPS radio!
Anywhere I use the word phone swap it in your mind for "radio" :)
Third party firmware: github.com/KD4Z/md380tools-vm
List of FRS channel frequencies: wiki.radioreference.com/index...
Random encryption key generator: www.randomlists.com/string?ba...
Contact manager software to easily input channels and contacts: n0gsg.com/contact-manager

[@agvulpine]

0:25 "And then click the yellow left arrow that says read..." should be immediately followed with "And then click File and Save as this will be your backup of original settings in case you mess anything up." Golden rule of radio programming.

[@jakemccain9825]

This was very illegal and I would never do this, but my friend Jim thanks you got such a awesome video explaining exactly what I needed to know

[@Heathfx5]

Taking a concealed firearm into a federal building is “very illegal”, using encryption on an unlicensed amateur radio band is merely just a little bit “naughty”.

[@AntilleanConfederation]

@@Heathfx5 our government is so afraid of people taking back power that is why they have these restrictions in place. Is not about national security. Is about their security for the crimes they have committed against us all.

[@Guap303]

​@@Heathfx5and a sense it's encrypted nobody can hear you anyways

[@jhalscott]

Depends on how you use it. If you have business license frequencies you absolutely can use that.

[@dezznuzzinyomouth2543]

Anything FREE or that cannot be taxed and easily duplicated is always frowned upon... Where's your capitalism hats? Thanks for the video. Appreciate you duly

[@IIjlI]

This has to be the most straight cut answer, in most detailed to the point video I've ever seen on any radio programming tutorial, and for digital no less. Beautiful work, this is how you set a standard.

[@dianastica2658]

Please please create more radio videos. Most people ramble on and on about useless crap. You are straight to business. Thank you 😊

[@VickyGeagan]

Not true. They are legal on 900 MHZ only. Per part 15 compliance here is a link to one. www.buytwowayradios.com/motorola-dtr600.html?fee=5&fep=4705& They are programmed pretty much the same as this one. Just really expensive for most.

[@cameronrussell8409]

A few things to point out. The allow talkaround option just gives you the option for talkaround. You would have to assign it to a button to toggle between talkaround and repeater mode. Since you do not have a repeater pair, you are always in talkaround mode. Also receive lists are for monitoring multiple different talkgroups. If you only want to communicate with others in your talkgroup this step is not necessary. Color code is important in simplex operation, as they must match, but the timeslot does not matter in simplex mode.

[@synchro505]

Excellent demo of these radios. Amazing that it has encryption capabilities like that.

[@tzq33tdq]

Lot's of radio's say privacy for ctcss/dcs, which are useless in terms of privacy. Great video!

[@Johnyrocket70]

Tyt radios have a scramble function. As long as you and whoever in your group set the scramble nobody can figure what you are saying

[@jhalscott]

I like the Anytone D878 for this. It uses AES256 so it will interoperate with other brands like the BTech 6x2 or certain Hytera or Motorola radios. And the latest Anytone D878 firmware and CPS does NOT reveal the AES256 encryption keys from reading the radio from the software. It would only be compromised if someone got the PC you were programming radios with, but that PC uses full disk VeraCrypt boot level encryption. Also, the Anytone D878 has GPS and APRS (both analog and digital) standard. In substantial testing I've found that it tunnels APRS through encrypted digital. Works perfectly with the D878 to each other and the D578 mobile. All of those have APRS send and receive. Great video. Thanks! NOTE: For all the FCC snitches and Sad Hams, I have proper business licenses which allows me to do this on those properly licensed frequencies.

[@jhalscott]

@@lokicam1307 I agree, but just wanted to save myself from the bootlickers in the comments.

@@lokicam1307 Wow, so not submitting to your anarchistic dreams is now "licking the boot". Almost as if it was in the interest of society to manage and protect limited public resources.

@@lokicam1307 Not sure if you're kidding or actually deranged. I bet no speed limit for you, too.

[@orpheusepiphanes2797]

Will the anytone encryption work with this TYT unit?

[@DaveSmith-cp5kj]

@ Encrypted messages take up no more bandwidth than unencrypted messages.

[@davidglc]

In Italy Communications Ministry answered me it's not illegal using encryption with PMR446 radios (radios for personal use, similar to FRS radios in US).

[@toysareforboys1]

That's awesome news :)

[@cannaroe1213]

@@toysareforboys1 Would you still recommend this method/technology in 2020? I'm wondering if the DMR encryption, whatever it is, is really secure. Nothing against the Chinese. I just want to be safe :) But these days who knows who you should trust. Maybe the Chinese :P

[@garychap8384]

DMR Encryption is terribly insecure. Due to synchronisation issues inherent in radio use, the same XOR pattern is used for every packet. It may look like a 256bit key in the software, but it's really not. In actual fact, it's trivial to decrypt the standard encryption you'd find on DMR radios. Can you MAKE it secure? Yes... you can build a very secure system on top of DMR infrastructure, but it takes a lot of work. Having your Digipeater broadcast entropy on Slot 1 allows radios to synchronise a true 256bit rolling key in it's broadcasts on Slot 2 ... ... yes, this requires messing with the radio firmware and the repeater software, but it does result in a very high security DMR infrastructure. Unfortunately, it's also very much against the terms of your license unless you have a specific NoV or are operating under a part 90 license or franchise.

[@VickyGeagan]

It is legal in the US only for 900 MHZ. It is just a PM signal. Spread Spectrum or otherwise kn own as frequency hopping.

[@magnusmagnuson6162]

@@VickyGeagan so your saying it is the "same" Frequency Hopping that say the Motorola DTR series uses? I was considering the TRT as more cost effective option but didn't want to loose the Frequency Hop provided by the DTR radios.

[@Crawfa79]

Thanks for making a helpful video, not just another unboxing and spec list dribble.

[@2KCamaroZ28SS]

If a small group of people wish to use open frequencies encrypted, I see absolutely no harm

[@guytech7310]

Then how will gov't eavesdrop to gossip about you and your friends?

[@SIGJNF]

People who can make money off licensing, they simply can't make money anymore. That's the harm. It's not a real harm, but harm nonetheless, for them at least. I couldn't care less, pirate all the way

[@johnoriel4241]

Criminals will use such a feature to commit crimes.

[@guytech7310]

@@johnoriel4241I don't thinks so. Do You see Gang bangers or other criminals using radios now, or ever? Bottom line criminals are not going to have the patience to learn how to use them.

[@someoneelse4811]

​@@johnoriel4241You could say this about any form of cryptography. However, it more often used to prevent crime, like encrypting your debit card information before broadcasting it across the internet to Amazon.

[@SYN-flood]

Very good presentation, encryption, DMR and analog on sample radios with listening.

[@ephjaymusic]

This is excellent! Thank you for such a clear video!

[@Adamdaj]

You don't need to Check Repeater Talk Around if it's simplex You only check RPT Talk Around when program in a repeater pair.

[@RINNTY]

Great video, very educational. Thanks

[@jhalscott]

You don't need the allow talkaround setting. As long as the call groups, zones, channels, etc. all match you are good to go.

[@FCYYZ2]

In the Navy we referred to encrypted audio as " Turkey Talk" As you heard at 16:00 it does sound like a Turkey.

[@toysareforboys1]

Turkey Talk, love it, thanks for the info!

[@cwells9864]

toysareforboys does this software only work for the phone mentioned?

[@toysareforboys1]

@@cwells9864 It was provided by the manufacturer of the radio so I assume it either only works with this radio or possibly other TYT radios. I have not tested it with any other radios.

[@MountainMan7.62x39]

This was a great overview, thanks.

[@glenmo1]

I purchased on eBay 2 used Cobra microtalk FRS walkie talkies. They were manufactured in 1990s. & Have "VOICE INVERSION" voice scrambling .. originally the FCC allowed this type of voice scrambling but then did a 180 on it and stop manufacturers from producing walkie talkies with voice inversion.. voice inversion is the old scrambling technology.. the main reason I want them is so that other people monitoring FRS frequencies cannot understand what I'm talking about to the other talky... I also own a simplex repeater.. it records on a chip and then retransmits.. I can hook up a much more powerful grms talkie.. to the simplex repeater.. place them into a watertight container.. and haul them up in the air on a high tree limb.... I can then use my FRS walkie talkies with voice scrambling to talk to one another at longer distances

[@oliverallen5324]

Voice scrambling can be defeated in real time.

[@madbroindustries]

​@@oliverallen5324what about the encryption shown on this video?

[@hansoak3664]

One of the advantages to text messaging not being encrypted is if there is an issue and a non-encrypted (for whatever reason) group member needed to signal an encrypted group member, and vice-versa. It allows a common signalling path regardless of encryption status.

[@VickyGeagan]

APRS is now legal in the US for GMRS use starting January 1st 2022. It allows for very short text message packetts.

[@hansoak3664]

@@VickyGeagan I saw a few headlines lately but haven't ran it down for details on Radio Reference, MyGMRS, FCC, etc. Thanks for the recent update. :)

[@aidenschvatkok5732]

What happens with remote monitoring I wonder? It would suck if someone sent remote monitor command and it started to eavesdrop in the clear

[@waytospergtherebro]

One of the advantages to living under a bridge is that if somebody wants to hand you a million dollars they don't even have to knock on a door.

[@hansoak3664]

@@waytospergtherebro I was just giving one of the reasons why text messaging is not encrypted. It's simply so the group has a pathway to send a message should someone have the wrong key or something else goes wrong with encryption.

[@appalachianoperator]

Thie is gonna work great for my commercial needs thanks man

[@rogo7330]

That's a very strange encryption. If this was AES (with new IV at the start of each packet), the sound would be just a random noise, because the data would be completly random, even if input is all zeros or repeated. This however looks like strange transformation on the signal that still carries over its amplitude for no reason, which is very suspicious. It's probably already cracked, I think.

[@uis246]

Maybe it's just speech model lossy codec, so a buch of noise results into speech-like sound

[@rogo7330]

@@uis246 No, the point is that it still contains amplitude of the sound, so you can hear when someone speaks something. That's very sus

[@soundspark]

Wouldn't there still be a packet modulation?

[@zforce69]

@@rogo7330 I agree, the encryption doesn't seem fully implemented. If you compare this output to encrypted P25 or DMR it's night and day the difference.

[@motivaciontotal5310]

@@zforce69 So do you mean that this video was made by glowies to spread misinformation?

[@garycook5125]

Your video is very helpful.

[@hbryant1971]

It does sort of work....The key is to use the same make and model of radio. I'm getting aes 256 level now.

[@rzr2ffe325]

Mind explaining how?

[@hbryant1971]

@@rzr2ffe325 I simply followed the steps in the video, since my Retevis 3S pair are the same radios as the TYT MD 380. The things to pay close attention to is creating a unique talk group for encrypted and it must be in the 2000s, Example 2540. Also the radio IDs , receive groups, must be paid attention to.

[@tdhmoose]

Very detailed.

[@benjaminfranklin8439]

If you get a blinking red light make sure you you enable all menu items like he said in the video, THEN MAKE SURE TALKABOUT IS ENABLED FROM THE RADIOS MENU (from within the menu of the radio itself not just the pc software)....just wasted hours trying to get this to work, for the second time. Also you should apply for a commercial frequency and do this legal through part 90 of fccs rules so the fedbois dont come knocking on your door. And this encryption isnt that powerful so dont expect too much from it.

[@airbornelarkin]

Great information and very useful for when SHTF.

[@391019101]

Great video !

[@mshahab1930]

Dear I need some information about encryption we are using Mtp850ex radio now we want add new models Mtp850ex radio so how i can generate encryption key nd one key I can use only for one radio or more then one

[@cinemaipswich4636]

In Australia, this section of the frequency spectrum is unregulated, and any CB radio or walkie-talkie is open use. No exams, or licences or money to be paid. It's free. No one else uses this band, and it would cost 10x more money to regulate it, than the money it could ever collect.

[@mynameisben123]

Can you use this band for encrypted digital communications in Australia?

[@HircineDaWolf]

ya but they took ur guns away

[@Fanta....]

@@HircineDaWolf You guys have guns and you are too chicken sh1t to overthrow your own horrendous government. keep talkin out yer @ss

[@JulioSuarezrds]

Love this video!!

[@JohnDoe-mz7ho]

would be nice to expand on the random encryption key generator

[@rouletteplace]

Good video

[@_c_y_p_3]

SWIM says this is awesome!

[@powerofnow5628]

How far can two people communicate with these walkie talkie and where can I purchase them?

[@toysareforboys1]

Without connecting them to repeaters, from inside a commercial building to inside a house I tested them with the stock antennas (the long one it comes with) at 587 meters/1928ft through a mixed commercial/residential urban environment and the quality was perfect, sounded like we were standing right beside each other. The elevation profile was pretty optimal (i.e. no hills between the radios). I have not tested them in open space. GPS capture of the test: toysareforboys.com/dmr_distance_test.jpg and I purchased the radios from aliexpress: (cheaper one is without GPS, both come with programming cable) www.aliexpress.com/item/33042284582.html

[@2239973]

Hello. Is there a compatible key with Motorola´s(either advanced, or basic) privacy?

[@VickyGeagan]

I am not sure it is legal in the US on 900 MHZ license free only.

[@PowderMill]

The XPR7550 and Hytera PD982 use ARC (64-bit?) Any way to modify the PD782 or PD682 or PD982 to utilize the AES256 option WITHOUT the option key? Thanks!

[@slickceretto9760]

Can you make a video for the anytone 878uv?

[@MaximusAurelius1987]

Are there DMR that can change encryption key from front panel?

[@ThePCitizen]

Great video. Bought two of these. They arrived quickly. I used the software on the CD. No joy. I downloaded and installed the latest software. Took some doing to get the driver to work, but when I upload my radio configuration, the radio reboots and says "unProgram". When I upload the default config, it works like new. Still fiddlin' to see what's what.

[@madbroindustries]

Any updates?

[@benjaminfranklin8439]

On the TYT MD-UV380 the talkaround checkbox is greyed out until you offset Tx and Rx frequencies.

[@tylermulkey330]

what dos the offset do? and how do u know which # offset it uses, besides going on the repeaters website? can u scan for offset from the radio itself??

[@waylonk2453]

@@tylermulkey330 The offset allows the radio to use repeaters. Most VHF amateur repeaters in the US use an input frequency that is ±6.00 KHz from the repeater's transmit frequency. You can find the input frequency by listening above and below the repeater's output frequency by 6KHz for any stations calling in to the repeater. I have an MD-UV380 and can't scan for the offset using the stock software.

[@altonative1566]

What is the "phone" type he is using? Not listed in video description

[@whitehorsephotograph]

Where did you get the programming software?

[@AgentOffice]

Amazing

[@Ocrepair]

Can I use this particular HT and a bTech 6x2 and encrypt the radios to communicate with each other

[@EricOsterberg]

The BTech6x2 and AnytoneD878 are the same radio, just minor marketing and firmware differences.

[@deaustin4018]

I mainly use CW (Morse Code) on amateur frequencies, but as far as I know, it's illegal to even use something like a simple substitution cipher. Everything has to be transmitted in the clear.

[@jeepinbanditrider]

Correct. But i doubt the FCC really cares unless they get complaints about you interfering with legit comms.

[@akivaliaho5166]

@@jeepinbanditrider The FCC doesn't but zealous ham radio dudes will track you down. Encryption isn't permitted on the ham bands and some people have enough time in the world. I'm a legit ham operator but I'm not against encryption.

[@kg4gav]

I'd probably look at operating outside of the ham bands. DMR is not allowed on MURS but encryption is. So you could set up simplex on MURS channels with encryption keys. If you were to do DMRS and encryption on MURS, I doubt anyone would notice. Again, this is not designed to defeat the agencies with the time and money necessary to defeat the encryption this is to defeat Bob down the street with a scanner.

[@flavortown3781]

@@akivaliaho5166 laughs in transmitting at low power so that no one can see it unless they are close enough they knew it was happening

[@Starbuckin]

@@akivaliaho5166 All you have to do is operate in 902 to 928 MHz ISM band, this is the same as the US Amateur Band but if you run 1 Watt or less you are not operating as Ham but as unintentional radiator and can legally transmit Encryption, in fact Motorolla sells radios that do just that marketed as License free Business radios. I friend and I have a point to point link running two of those kinds of radios at 1/2 Watt with two Yagis pointed at each other's house and can legally use encryption. Anyone can.

[@CoDRusher22]

@toysareforboys hey can you help me with a problem? i programmed 3 radios with the exact same data, but on one radio the encryption does not work. i cannot find out why that is. thak you

[@ryantoomey611]

Could you use an analog radio with voice inversion scrambling?

[@VickyGeagan]

No that is illegal unless public safety. For Digital they are only authorized on 900 MHZ.

[@mynameisben123]

@@VickyGeaganthey didn’t ask if it was legal…

[@waylonk2453]

Lots of FCC-approved FRS walkie talkies come with voice inversion scrambling from the factory. So I assume you're good to go? So long as you use one of the 16 pre-approved scramble keys.

[@shadannawawng5726]

How far at least can communicate dmr radio sir?

[@RINNTY]

Are the encryption keys compatible with the anytone and retvis dmr radios. I have these radios.

[@waylonk2453]

Will be compatible with retevis, not sure about anytone

[@elio9207]

Nice. One question? Is it legal to that. Would it work on any hamradilo?

[@toysareforboys1]

I'd imagine it'd be illegal to transmit. It only works on digital radios (DMR and the like) that support encryption.

[@elio9207]

@@toysareforboys1 another question. Is DMR relaible radio works on internet.or antena.? Becaus its worsless when it all shuts down internet and cellphone network. Thats why prepping is all about. To use old fasion analog radio comunication.

[@toysareforboys1]

@@elio9207 I've only used DMR radio to radio, no repeater antennas, no internet. DMR works the same as analog radio as far as repeater towers goes, but can also use internet repeaters.

[@elio9207]

@@toysareforboys1 oh okej. Im from sweden. So it means if i order couple of radios with encrytion support.. have not to be the model as in you video... Couple radio for the whole family. And programing encrytion as you did. Then it will be a private communication with the DMR radio and using repeater tower.to communicate. And would work if all shuts down.as an analog radio? And all of that its legal.?!

[@elio9207]

@@toysareforboys1 okej as i understand. .. the DMR radio can work with talk group encrypted if internet shuts down.? It doesnt matter it will work through Analog antea/repeaters localy.?

[@user-nf6oh2fb1w]

HELLO. can you recommend a portable radio with DMR encryption aes 256 . to use i at the landfill?

[@jonathanstein6056]

Actually, it’s not illegal - for example, if it’s a business radio. There are certain scenarios where it is permitted. Otherwise, it’s just an fyi educational video.

[@janosvarga962]

Okay, at least you stated only in Canada and USA

[@46camper50]

I’m not sure how I’m encryption works. My thing is I want my radios to cover everything from GMRS - MURS , marine , regular HAM bands . I only want two channels/ frequencies to be encrypted. Is that possible? I also want at least 2 hand held radios set up that way and one mobile radio that way. As for now we use GMRS radios and regular analog ham radios . We are working on codes etc. to manually encrypt our transmissions . That said we do alot of frequency hopping. You know a GMRS radio that has dual watch and receives vhf and other uhf we set the radios up that way . That way person with ham radio talks on VHF. GMRS guy here’s vhf transmissions and he responds on GMRS ham radio gets GMRS transmissions they can talk back and forth that way . Eavesdroppers only hear bits and pieces. Then add predetermined codes and they can’t figure out what’s truly going on. That’s a lot of preplaning . Also channel/ frequency hopping further helps with security. Lots of pre planning per use . The other people in that group has to know when to switch frequencies/ channels, what codes are being used , how often channels / frequencies should be changed on that particular” mission “/ event. You know should you hop after each transmission or after each conversation. Lots of work that way also slow process that things can get very messy. So digital seems to be the way to go.lots easier if you can encrypt.

[@skankhunt9078]

Very informative video. One question, since I'm totally new and looking to buy a radio: Can a dmr radio work also as a normal analog by punching in the frequency on the radio without any programming whatsoever? I am both interested in encryption for certain comms but also in being able to use this like a simple radio

[@rss3781]

check when u buy it in amazon should say dmr and analog

[@VickyGeagan]

Yes if they are P 25 their analog compatible and only for license free use on 900 MHZ in the US.

[@jakemccain9825]

@@VickyGeagan P25 900 MHz is not DMR.. not even the same at all

[@jakemccain9825]

It’s probably too late but yes, you need a talkgroup, you can’t just transmit in digital without a TG but you can just type in a frequency

[@madbroindustries]

@@jakemccain9825 is there a radios that does that you recommend?

[@Kemia_]

I'm fairly new the radio world. Is it the encryption that makes the radios illegal?

[@brucekempf4648]

So radios are legal if you are licensed for the band you intend to use. Anyone can apply for a GMRS license and pay the fee and use the GMRS frequencies. FRS radios are license free but are low power with fixed antennas and very short range. Getting your ham radio license is the best way to have lots of frequencies to legally talk on however you are not allowed to use encryption on any of these bands. Not ham, not GMRS, not FRS. In fact, its not legal to use digital DMR on GMRS. The idea of all this encryption stuff if that in a SHTF situation and the zombies are running the town. You may need encryption and guns and ammo and food to survive. You can be assure that the fighters in Ukraine are using strong encryption. You can't have you enemy knowing your plans. Don't let your encryption key get out either. Any encryption in an emergency situation is better than none.

[@Munky332]

How much of this can be programmed via the radio menus? I know it seems like an odd thing, but being able to reprogram certain features on the fly seems necessary. ie; distribute radio pre-programmed "secure" with a couple codes/channels per day, for a whole week. Everyone instructed to swap channels at midnight as necessary. distribute backup un-programmed secure code/channel/frequency options in case of radio compromise, have code words established for switching. Also, do you know if other radio's support this feature? ie the AnyTone At-D878UV? Its the DMR radio I've been looking at. And does it work with repeaters and/or DMR hotspots?

[@atranimecs]

IF someone had the equipment and technical skill the key would still take time to crack and time can be just enough. Make multiple channels with a new key on each one and you can set timing schedules with your group to switch channels for maximum effect. I think people see this use as a mobile setup not long-term and stationary .

[@elesjuan]

I have an md380 and an ailunce hd1. The bummer about having two different brand radios, is they use different enhanced encryption.... So I've read, cause as a licensed ham, I'd never transmit encrypted comms..

[@Telyron]

Is tyt encryption compatible with Baofeng dm 1801 or anytone?

[@jamiemoo2000]

I've you key up on the analogue radio, it will stamp on the digital radio signal.

[@enigma6482]

Is this encryption compatible with any other radio brands?

[@cwells9864]

Does this software only work for the phone mentioned?

[@toysareforboys1]

It was provided by the manufacturer of the radios so I assume it only works with at least just this model, or maybe other models that TYT manufacture. I haven't tested it with any other radios.

[@cwells9864]

toysareforboys do you know how could I get software that works with other models baofeng etc?

[@toysareforboys1]

@@cwells9864 I believe CHIRP software works with baofeng radios irrc: baofengtech.com/download

[@angelscomputers]

I see this video is 5 years old so I wonder if this still working in 2023 with that radio or if they block it already

[@waylonk2453]

Still works ;)

[@teobong6939]

What encryption algorithm is used?

[@brilliant13675]

Rc4

[@mikemcdonald5147]

in one section you mention each zone only holds 16 channels. That sucks but that's not your fault LOL how many zones can you have>? I would need a lot of zones as I have a lot of frequencies I would want to input.

[@toysareforboys1]

Thanks for the comment! I think the reason why each zone only holds 16 channels is because the channel selection knob only has 16 detents so they wanted it to match up. I'm not sure what the actual limit is but I was able to add over one thousand zones without issue. I've sold these radios and purchased the Retevis RT83 GPS 10 watt radios so I won't be able to do more testing on these ones.

[@mikemcdonald5147]

any reason you switched or just ring out different radios?

[@toysareforboys1]

@@mikemcdonald5147 No reason in particular. Specs look a bit better on the RT83. A rep from Retevis reached out to me on facebook (where I had also posted this exact video) and asked me if I'd like to try a set of their radios so I accepted. A local drug dealer paid me an absurd amount of money for my MD-390's so I let them go to a new home.

[@garychap8384]

@@toysareforboys1 LOL ... Dealers with 390's ... those have got that pesky GPS feature ; ) Handy! PMSL

[@SYN-flood]

@What saith the scripture? Tytera TYT-MD390 has GPS function inside.

[@Subgunman]

Nice but nothing beats DES, DES XL, AES 256 for privacy.

[@rfi-cryptolab4251]

This isn't real encryption. There's no real security if the 128 bit key is somehow used to generate a 49 bit key stream that gets repeated over every frame. Kind of a wonky implementation by Tytera.

[@basedkorean6237]

Can u elaborate on this please? is it easy to decrypt?

[@rfi-cryptolab4251]

@@basedkorean6237 PT xor KS = CT CT xor KS = PT

[@cannaroe1213]

@@rfi-cryptolab4251 Well what does work then? :-/

[@garychap8384]

Our group has been experimenting with more secure firmware, for passing sensitive information as an assist to the emergency services. One really cannot blame TYT for their weak crypto! Unfortunately there's an obvious de-synch problem with keystreaming... The error rate, the likelyhood of 'missed transmissions' and the multi-user problem each combine to make a streaming key impossible in practice. Obviously, a 128bit static key wouldn't much more secure than a smaller key, as you can still break it a chunk at a time. But even rotating through the key-space you introduce errors if a user tunes a transmission midway. So, at the end of the day our initial prototype firmware just wasn't practical. We didn't bother working on a version which uses all 128bits per chunk (not a simple XOR) because, again, it's largely security through obscurity. It still offered no real added protection over XORing due to the issues outlined above - which is why we didn't bother. Basically, you really need to solve the de-synch issue to get a more secure system. However... There is one strong solution for high security comms in DMR, and that is to add a nonce in the protocol. Unfortunately, there isn't space in the slot for additional information, so you have to get creative. The firmware we're currently working on addresses this. Basically, we're using TS1 for a random nonce, followed by voice data in TS2... then creating a 64-bit hash using the TS1 nonce with the 128 bit key... this is the only way to ensure non-trivial cracking whilst not worrying about synch. The handset does run a little warmer due to the higher duty cycle in talkaround. We hope to add a second 'infrastructure' mode, where a repeater can be made to broadcast a public nonce over TS1 whilst handsets use only TS2 for transmission. This will bring the transmit duty cycle back down to 50%, but will require a change to the repeater and backhaul network _(when listening, the repeater must broadcast random nonces... but when relaying, it must also replay the relevant nonce received from the remote repeater)_ We have only implemented the ad-hoc version in firmware at present, but infrastructure mode is the next step as we'll need that. Currently, this firmware is causing a slightly increased error rate, but we think the code just needs tidying up... it looks like it's due to timing sometimes being thrown off by the decoder, however it's a very borderline issue and either optimising the code or simplifying the hash should be enough to get it back on track, so we're expecting to have a very nice non-trivial crypto-system up and running in a month or two... followed by secure infrastructure later in the year. Currently the project isn't open as it's not permitted and we don;t want to be seen to be encouraging licensing breaches - but, if there's sufficient interest from relevant groups, we may make it available. I should point out that we have a UK home office NoV on our licenses, which allows for encryption on the amateur bands... as well as some limited operation outside of the amateur band. Anyway, I hope that spreads some light on why the default encryption is so poor, and what improving it entails. 73's

[@garychap8384]

@@kelso7779 Well, it's difficult for a number of reasons. Firstly, there isn't really any robust standard defined in DMR... so, instead, each manufacturer has created their own system leading to a complete lack of interoperability. This is usually by design. In truth, only Motorola and Hytera have made any decent in-roads into strongly encrypted DMR. I'll dig out Motorolas MotoTRBO encryption patents and paste them into this post. If you're reading this and there's no links, I haven't gotten around to it yet ; ) But note that this is NOT how the TYT Encryption works... TYT's method is barely even an encryption, more a simple obfuscation. Other radios need to be modified if you want a reasonable level of encryption - as opposed to mere privacy. Generally speaking... If you make a private call (whether direct or through infrastructure), then both parties "could" use a call setup which provides for a Key Agreement protocol. This is a two way "call and response" system in which two radios can establish a secret to use as a key. This works fine. Unfortunately, though, you cannot use a Key Agreement protocol in a one-to-many broadcast. This presents a problem as the majority of use cases involve broadcasts. So, in practice you have to agree a static key beforehand. Next, there's the matter of how you use the key. AES and 3DES would seem like strong choices for commercial operation... but a single bit of error renders an entire frame indescipherable. Fixed point-to-point links can cope with this by having low error rate - but HT's, by their nature, tend to be mobile and suffer non-zero error rates. You could mitigate the error-rate if you were sending non-realtime data as you could simply request lost frames by number... but immediate voice modes cannot do that... lost frames are lost forever. So, AES and 3DES make for very strong encryption, but make for a very fragile communication system. So, many manufacturers use XOR rather than encryption... as this prevents a bit error from destroying an entire frame. They also tend to use a static pre-programmed key, as this permits one-to-many operation. XOR would be fine with a rolling key - but rolling keys only come in three flavours... 1. Time-based ... requiring each radio to have a real-time clock, or; 2. Based on message data ... requiring perfect trransmission (or, at least, that any transmission error be recoverable) 3. Externally provided at intervals ... but this usually requires either infrastructure, or some out-of-band frame (like moto's superframe) Hytera and Motorola have two systems available. Basic and Advanced. For example, Moto users can use a form of DMRA AES with a LOT of clever patented twists to the DMR protocol, but in practice most users of these radios find that basic mode is required for resilience. Motorola's DMR Encryption, OTAR and their superframe key-cycle patents.. patents.google.com/patent/US8422679 patents.google.com/patent/US9351157 patents.google.com/patent/US8781132 patents.google.com/patent/CN106878277A/en patents.google.com/patent/CN102307075A/en Of course, we're looking at TYT radios... TYT use a pre-shared key of which only a few bits are used... the same bits of the key are re-used for every frame and they never change. They also use XOR as their "encryption" algorithm which IS NOT suitable for use with a fixed key - but which allows bit errors to glitch the audio, but leave it otherwise intelligible. This means that TYT radios can be trivially broken by employing statistical methods across a number of stored frames, discarding values that do not produce smooth gradients in every frame. As keys are rapidly discarded you are left with thousands of contenders which a human operator can quickly cycle through looking for some intelligibility. Fortunately, the audio will become intelligible before the key is properly resolved - and, once a contender is found, any incorrect bits can be identified by regular periodic glitches in the gradient, that occur in the same part of multiple frames... so, the contender key can then automatically "home in" on the correct values for it's bad bits by trying to incrementally normalise ill-fitting samples with their neighbours. Over many frames this results in a usable key. So, TYT is not great for encryption. It's more an obfuscation strategy. It is possible to make a very secure and resilient radio out of TYT hardware though, which I pointed out in the previous post... although, to overcome the problems inherrent to DMR you need to be quite inventive. The most robust solution we've found uses infrastructure mode to keep the radios supplied with a steady stream of synchronised entropy. Fortunately, the two-slot nature of DMR allows the repeater to stream entropy over slot-1 which the radios transform using their fixed key, and then employ in their communications on slot-2. As a single frame of entropy, modulating a fixed pre-programmed key, can provide enough unique XOR-key material for four slots worth of TX/RX... it is possible to make this system more robust by repeating the entropy four times. This allows us to use a hashing scheme which is NOT fault tolerant... as four repeats allow all but the very worst signals to be recovered ... and, let's face it, if the error rate is 50% or higher, the keystream is the least of our problems anyway ; ) This allows a robust XOR-based encryption scheme at the cost of one infrastructure slot. Wishlist... What would have been be nice would be if the radios had a real-time clock. Then the RTC could be used to produce rolling, synchronised and key-derived entropy in a similar manner to TOTP access cards- and any clock drift in the users HT's could be prevented using a simple 1-frame message sent only periodically, perhaps whenever there was a gap in slot-1 or slot-2. If I were redesigning the TYT for our own nefarious purposes, I'd definitely add an RTC to fix the encryption issues! Just that one simple addition would allow for very highly secure ad-hoc and infrastructure operation, in both private and broadcast message modes. There is probably enough space inside the case to add an RTC module... if it could be added into the serial peripheral interface and solve all of the encryption problems inherent in these radios. Although... for our purposes, it's better to solve this in software and leave the hardware undisturbed as our members bring their own equipment : / Firmware changes can be undone... performing open-heart surgery on their HTs may make our members a little antsy ; ) So, we'll be sticking with our single-slot 'infrastructure based' security for now... at least until we have time and funds to explore/provide code-synchronised HT's and reclaim slot-1.

[@OnnieKoski]

Are there any radios that do old-school analog encryption?

[@billdberger7407]

You mean hardware encryption? Many.

[@ArmThePoor161]

When programming my phone, the channel list will not allow me to use talk around. The tick box is grey. Why is that?

[@brucekempf4648]

Talk around is intended only for channels that have different send and receive frequencies used on repeaters. You should be setting your radios for simplex. Same transmit and receive frequency. Don't use talk around. I think it was a mistake he told everyone to use this setting.

[@ArmThePoor161]

@@brucekempf4648 thank you.

[@Johnyrocket70]

Alot easier to set your group radios in scramble mode.

[@Ian-jt2kl]

Is the max key length 32 bit on the 390?

[@waylonk2453]

32 characters, which equates to 256 bits.

[@justaregularguy3827]

How would they even find you if its encrypted during an shtf scenario or otherwise???

[@toysareforboys1]

How is who going to find you? You can click it over to regular analog, unencrypted, if you needed to call for help. The digital encrypted stuff is just for private group communications (which those people will already have the encryption key saved in their radio).

[@justaregularguy3827]

@@toysareforboys1 how would someone find me if im using encryption like the government since your not supposed to be using encryption couldnt they track you down is what im asking just curious

[@rifleshooterchannel208]

Just a Regular Guy Unless you’re talking and talking away or are on predicable comms windows and in a fixed location, you will probably not be located. Of course that is in a general sense, if “they” bring in electronics and comms experts you can probably be located just by transmitting. They have the capability to detect transmissions and simply remove the entire grid square in which those transmissions occurred by using an MLRS. That’s a bit extreme though 😂

[@jeepinbanditrider]

Look up "ham foxhunting" if your group is exercising poor comms discipline anyone with a reciever, a compass, a map, and a yagi antenna could triangulate your position.

[@iamcondescending]

Would this work on a baofeng uv5r?

[@castanza128]

Why are encrypted communications illegal, if we have freedom of speech? Freedom of speech, as long as the government can monitor it and decide if they want to send you to re-education camp or not?

[@MotorsportsX]

so IM just curious.. what that actual law is that make this illegal?

[@UNKNOWN-zb3qm]

Can you do this with a baofeng?

[@budman1122]

isint encryption of any kind technically illegal? especially on frs/gmrs? DE N8CWG

[@toysareforboys1]

yep

[@iwinrar5207]

@@toysareforboys1 you criminal you....

[@toysareforboys1]

I updated the title and description to reflect the legal status of using encrypted radios.

[@rifleshooterchannel208]

I believe encryption on analog MURS is legal.

[@rifleshooterchannel208]

Brian Cameron You’ll get no argument from me on that front.

[@KestrelReal]

I just watched this for no reason. I dont own any radios.

[@GamingAmbienceLive]

Does this work with baofeng

[@shadannawawng5726]

And when i lost one of my dmr radio, can i stun kill it from my un lost dmr radio?

[@waylonk2453]

Yes

[@MaskedCrab85531]

For research purposes, what happens to people caught doing this if it is illegal? and how are they typically caught? is there someone monitoring signals 24/7 to catch this?

[@flightstatic4662]

tons of people have the capability to notice you doing it, most of it is no one cares enough to do anything about it lol - though if you make it a big of enough problem for the FCC or whoever to care they'll be more then happy to fine you thousands of dollars lol

[@randybird9979]

why will they catch you, no one uses radios any more

[@flightstatic4662]

because tons of people use radios

[@chublez]

​@randybird9979 hahaha. Yup no one. Stay on yer cell phone kiddo.

[@randybird9979]

@@chublez I will

[@junkcarz4720]

Is there a way 2 put digital frequency from fire department to make it a scanner

[@waylonk2453]

Yes. If you're still interested and haven't figured it out already, I'd be willing to help.

[@letsgetto1millwithoutvids]

What encryption does this support does it have tetra encyption

[@waylonk2453]

ARC4 is what it uses. I don't know what TETRA uses.

[@ericmalachi7768]

Super illegal, as I am learning the laws surrounding DMR but this information is critical especially in the times we live in. This is valuable information 👌

[@guppygb6078]

YES! Biden will destroy the world! We need radios to communicate between our doomsday shelters!!! You are a hero!! THE TIMES ARE HERE!!! THE END IS HERE!!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸✝✝

[@Fanta....]

Just remember, Illegal does not equal immoral. Its a bunch of people deciding what you are and aren't allowed to do

[@guppygb6078]

@@Fanta.... YEAH THE GOVERNMENT IS CORRUPT! ALL POLITICIANS ARE CORRUPT! ASSEMBLE AND FIGHT! 🇺🇸🇺🇸 FALSE FLAG EVENTS ARE HAPPENING! BLM WAS THE START!! THE BORDER HAS FAILED!! HUNTER BIDEN LAPTOP!!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@johnholliday2526]

The encrypted garbling is fucking. Terrifying.

[@kevinc9416]

Correct me if I’m wrong but enhanced encryption is not full 256 AES

[@brucekempf4648]

I think you are correct. Enhanced encryption is stronger that simple but the 256 AES is what the NSA uses so it better be secure. The Anytone or B-tech DMR radios offer true 256 AES commutable with Motorola

[@carver5.56]

I stumbled across this, how is this illegal ?

[@gamerneversleep4200]

now lets buy monkey mask and rob a bank 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@usersatch]

Is it true that encrypted transmission is only possible on radios of the same type? seems like as long as both radios have the same key, it shouldn't matter if they are different brands.

[@TheEnderman67]

If the two radios support the same encryption protocol, then theoretically yes. But the name-brands (Harris, Moto, Kenwood) probably have ways of making it more difficult through proprietary means.

[@P25AES]

@@TheEnderman67 not if it is AES or DES

[@brettzolstick989]

Now I know exactly what NOT to do. I would never do this because that would be morally wrong and evil.

[@joshuashelton1228]

So I feel super dumb, for some reason it keeps telling me usb is busy or not connected when I try to read/write to the radio. I'm at me wits end! Anyone got an idea?

[@EricOsterberg]

Wrong comm port selected or using the wrong cable.

[@pablix]

I don't get it why Private RF Com is illegal and Network based is?

[@muwuny]

Is there any encryption/scrambling on the analogue channels? Or is the encryption exclusively for digital channels?

[@MatthewSomethingOrOther]

This is my question as well.

[@brucekempf4648]

You can only encrypt digital channels. The speech inversion is analog but can easily be inverted back to normal so is not as secure. Not everyone needs the highest level of security because most don't know enough or have the time and computer power to decode the encryption. It can take hours of listening and a super computer to find the keys so unless you are being hunted by the government you don't need to be worried

[@Guap303]

Wonder why mine doesn't allow me to check "allow talk around"

[@fevo69]

This function is only needed if you are using a repeater. In communication from radio to radio in one set of frequency is no necessary.

[@Guap303]

@@fevo69 appreciate the info

[@AirsoftNLD]

how to you reset the intire radio? i fuckedup so hard im desprate lol everytime i open my radio says unprograammed

[@paaao]

It's because you are not set to the right Channel or zone. You have your knob spun to a channel that you didn't create any data under.

[@paslechta]

And where is the encrpytion key? :) Seems like no reasonably good cipher was used.

[@czpanama]

Why is encryption illegal?

[@lelandsdad13]

Can this encryption software be used on the UV5R radios or is it radio specific?

[@toysareforboys1]

I believe it is radio specific, and the radio must support digital encryption (which the UV5R does not).

[@lelandsdad13]

@@toysareforboys1 I figured as much but thought I'd ask anyways.

[@garychap8384]

Hi, lelandsdad, Baofengs newer RD-5R digital HT does support encryption... you can set it up through their own programming software. It's the first digital radio they've produced which actually works properly. Unfortunately, the analogue UV-5R version of the radio does not do encryption... and their first generation digital HT, the ill-fated DM-5R, is a compatibility nightmare which should never be used, by anyone, ever! If you're looking for a cheap Baofeng encryption-capable DMR digital radio, it's the RD-5R or nothing. Although... to be fair, the TYT radios are not much more money, and are FAR better radios in terms of build quality, reliability, battery life and front-end selectivity. They come in U / V and U+V versions... each, with or without GPS (don't bother)... and, like the Baofeng, they do analogue too so you get both modes in one handset. A TYT UV digital costs about £80, which is comparable to the weaker Baofeng RD-5R... and is well worth the extra. The RD-5R : kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnS6eXSrl793r7s For the TYT models... look for an MD380 (available as EITHER UHF or VHF band) or the newer MD-UV380 (which does BOTH bands) Any of these will do encryption - but only when in a digital mode. Be aware that text messages are NOT encrypted, only voice. Hope that helps. Be aware, of course, that unless you live somewhere very unusual - encryption is NOT usually permitted on the amateur bands.

[@aarmono]

If you're looking for something that will work on a UV5R, I have been working on an open design for an encrypted voice module that is designed to work with any narrowband FM voice radio (or landline telephone). It's still a bit unpolished in some ways (especially when it comes to setting speaker and microphone levels and some of the other configuration settings), but it does work. The module sits in-between a headset and radio, digitizes + compresses the incoming voice, encrypts the digital voice stream, and sends it to the radio/phone as an audio frequency shift keyed signal. On the baofengs it connects using the APRS cable. Instructions with links to the software: github.com/aarmono/crypto_transceiver_instructions This modulation type is legal on MURS but not FRS. Whether encrypting it is legal depends on whether the transmission is considered "voice" or "data", since on Personal Radio bands obscuring voice is prohibited but obscuring data (from what I've read in the regs) isn't. Once the voice is digitized, compressed, packetized, encrypted, and modulated is it legally "voice" or "data"? Would someone be able to ascertain the information's true nature from looking at the encrypted signal? I don't know the answers to these questions. It's not compatible with anything but itself (and isn't trying to be), but the software is free and open source and runs on a raspberry pi. It can be made portable by powering the pi using a USB battery pack like you'd use to charge a cell phone. It uses proper encryption, though I don't yet have enough real-world experience with the system to know what effect the encryption has on range. By its design it is theoretically susceptible to some of the range issues Gary noted elsewhere in the comments: decrypting a frame is dependent on having received some previous number of frames, so if you drop a frame you get scrambled output until the receiver re-synchronizes. If your signal is marginal such that you have say 5-10% packet loss then you're not going to receive anything intelligible because your receiver's going to be spending all its time trying to re-synchronize. How much of an issue is this in practice? I'm still trying to figure that out. I have similarly toyed with the idea of using a GPS synchronized clock as a way of synchronizing transmitters and receivers to avoid some of the issues mentioned above, but of course this would add hardware and cost. And since I'm on commodity hardware where I have less control over the delays in the audio input and output, keeping two radios as tightly synchronized as I'd need would be difficult. I also worry about the system being dependent on being able to receive a GPS signal, even if it's just for an initial synchronization.

[@SniperOwl]

Do you need a special licence for AES-256 encryption for the TYT MD-390? I find it ridiculous to sell an open free algorithm for up to 400$

[@VickyGeagan]

Not if they are for 900 MHZ in the US. They do not scramble the transmission they are just P 25 Phased Modulation spread spectrum. They use what is called frequency hopping. That is what DMR radios are in a nutshell. They are legal for license free use in the US only on 900 MHZ.

[@corycotton6537]

@@VickyGeagan I have some questions basically I bought two md-390s to be able to talk to a buddy. I have no idea what I got myself into can you help please?

[@atranimecs]

@Vicky Geagan Isn't that why LORA falls in that spectrum? What is the ecryption scheme used in this video then? That key looked pretty long that he used, is that not AES?

[@djdogstar7385]

@@VickyGeagan Frequency hopping. This is a digital implementation of HAVEQUICK.