I ride with both thousands of noobs over the last 20 years and thousands of WT pro's during TDU time since 1999. Hydro discs DO give noobs a lot more confidence. WT riders though they just slow them down due to extra weight and pad rubbing resistance. NEVER expect a sponsored rider to tell you their HONEST opinion on a product they are PAID to endorse haha.
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
I'd like to somehow test why they feel so sluggush (which they do). My theory is the obvious one that is the increased rotating weight. How two bikes that are within a couple of brands of each other feel so different.
@RumpStumper3 жыл бұрын
Pad rubbing resistance 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️👍🏻🤣🤣🤦🏻♂️😅😅😅😅
@rollinrat48503 жыл бұрын
When every racer knows for a fact you go faster when you Dont touch the brakes, what's the argument? When I see unskilled cyclists and inspect their brakes everyday, who can't ride well nor properly maintain their junk, how does spending even more help those problems? Pros still win and want to ride rim-braked bikes. Its a fact. They often want lighter weight in mountains where you really need brakes. On the other hand, having built carbon aerospace structures at highest quality levels on the planet and having an understanding of quality control and its costs, who's fooling who? Some disc bikes might be better in certain conditions used by riders who actually understand how to apply these brakes most effectively and how to tune and maintain them. Most disc bikes are just a means to sell new bikes. I hate to disappoint you, but discs are often mere job security and more money for mechanics and manufacturers alike. There's lots of poor and cheap disc brakes on the market less safe than rim brakes. Especially those used on entry level road bikes. Folks need to wise up and ignore marketing BS. No bike or component can make one a more skilled or fitter cyclist. Its common sense. Its the RIDER, NOT the bike!
@bobwells15175 жыл бұрын
Well done overview. Bottom line: agreed, a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. For me, an answer to a question that I haven't asked. Road disc does not solve problems, they just replace old problems with new problems.
@ramonsanabria14725 жыл бұрын
Well put ! 😀
@Mensch-et3xm4 жыл бұрын
i never had a problem with my 9 speed cassette, i never had a problem with my aluminium bike, i never had a problem with my mechanical shifting, i never had a problem with my flat pedals.
@waynosfotos3 жыл бұрын
True
@jthepickle74 жыл бұрын
After 46 years of riding I can assure you that braking sooner is better than braking later. Since 1974, when I got my first bike, the only real improvements have been the dual pivot brake (Shimano1984, or so) and padded bar tape. Plastic saddles were NOT an improvement, IMO, and I am back to an all leather Brooks. More gears in the cluster, improvement - but still not yet belt driven ( chains...still (!) REALLY? ) The simple though "deviously clever" 10 speed is now cluttered up with electronic shifting, hydraulic brakes, ,sensors to determine wattage and a clip to hold your cell phone. The human propensity to carry it all with us has supplanted a ride on the bike to get away from it all.
@trroland12485 жыл бұрын
OMG, you just said what I wrote in response to earlier video, “Solution to a problem that didn’t exist.”😅
@achiltsompanos4474 жыл бұрын
Same with electric shifting?
@robtankbuster52154 жыл бұрын
I didn't know i had a problem braking😉.
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
@@achiltsompanos447 No. Electric shifting is even worse in this regard.
@leftymadrid5 жыл бұрын
Well, ufff touchy subject here... What's very real is that not everyone is ready for disc brakes. Carbon rims with carbon brake surface, no, not very wise. But heck aluminum rims with rim brakes have worked great for my style of riding. But most importantly a rider should use what he/she wants/needs, not what others want... but, new frames should come in rim brake and disc version!! In instead of being steered/forced to go in a direction the company's want to to go in. Totally respect people who still want rin brakes, and understand why people want disc brakes... but hey, let's leave the brakes and do some quality riding, and to each his own... EXCELLENT channel, and presentation!!
@waynosfotos3 жыл бұрын
Well it has happened in 2020, they are not offering a rim bike equivalent from many manufacturers
@robt8042 Жыл бұрын
@@waynosfotos It's 2023 and all the big players have no rim brake options.
@ConstantRider4 жыл бұрын
Currently own both. If I had to pick again I would go rim. I have a job, I don't need another one. The are fiddly AF. It's feels like a wrought by the bike manufacturers. People forget when they emulate the pro's, they have full time mechanics.
@SurpriseMeJT3 жыл бұрын
In a few years when people's calipers start slow leaking and they realize the only way to fix a Shimano caliper is to replace them, people will go nuts. Their discs will squeal and lose braking power. People will buy more pads and the issue will seem to be resolved and then the fluid will leak onto the pads again and they will buy more pads. Eventually they will buy new calipers and have spent tons more money than a rim brake setup.
@stuartdryer13524 жыл бұрын
This is all so very true. All of it. Exactly my experience. Disc brake's finicky nature annoys me. Maybe if I was more confident in my ability to fix them it would be less annoying.
@obtugtxivtub4 жыл бұрын
One of my fellow riders went from electronic and disc to mechanical and rim brake. He had to finish his DC in single gear when his bike fell. Then it was making all kinds of noise when there was rain.
@kalijasin3 жыл бұрын
2020 Tokyo Olympics. Everyone was running disc brakes. Except the guy who won the Gold medal. 😆😂
@philhouck35603 жыл бұрын
I have been saying for years that discs solve a problem that doesn't exist. Right now most production bikes have discs but when people catch up with the silliness or road discs, hopefully rim brake bikes will become easier to buy.
@durianriders5 жыл бұрын
disc brakes just another product to sell to people who have more dollars than sense lol. No pro would ride disc road if they had a choice or were not paid HEAVY bonuses for riding disc. Look at Nibali and Froome. No way they will use disc because they need every advantage on the climbs. Ive been riding road disc for 4 years now. For a bike messenger/gravel yes but for a strava KOM hunter or racer no way. I went out and bought 2 top of the line bikes of the same model. DI2 dura ace. The disc feels like a slug even though it has Zipp 202. Same tires, groupset but the disc model feels noticeably slower and is slower at the same given watts. Discs just rub and that is a fact most noob roadies can't feel because they dont push enough watts.
@JP-om3ou5 жыл бұрын
Agreed
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
Like I mentioned at the end of the video, I'm still pretty cynical about the purpose of why we are being pushed to disc. It's not just a simple matter of buying a new bike, it's a whole new tool shed of accessories and ... garden hoses, everyone (in the industry) wins. That Was without doubt my biggest take away from the first few months. As far as performance goes, I'm not sure that's a myth as I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks a disc bike performs at the elite level as well as a rim, like you mentioned, the skinny lads fighting for yellow and pink WILL NOT slap spinning rotors on their bikes any time soon. Pop quiz, will Richie Porte run disc at the tour?
@waynosfotos3 жыл бұрын
You forgot one of the biggest myths, "Disc brakes are more aero" this is completely not true, they are considerably less aero. First reason is they have more spokes, two a spinning disc, three, an big caliper near the hub. Rim brakes are actually in dirty air so have little drag penalty.
@bikemirror66202 жыл бұрын
I don't think anyone is debating about which is more aero.
@Grunge_Cycling4 жыл бұрын
The best tip I can give about riding road disc is to embrace the rubbing and clicking noises! Once you are one with the noise, it doesn't annoy you anymore.
@wangdangdoodie4 жыл бұрын
....or, better still maintain your bike properly and not have any noises in the first place!
@danielvdl75555 жыл бұрын
Nailed it. Rim brake bikes in the dry you can always lock the wheels up if you slam on the brakes so you have already maximised your braking power. It's not a thing in the dry. Saving rims and wet performances are fair. How.many people wait till their braking surface is worn out till they upgrade wheels though?
@texrgb5 жыл бұрын
Yeap, dead right
@texrgb5 жыл бұрын
I never have a problem with my Rim brakes, just use Swiss stop pads, which are brilliant in the wet or dry, now I have to change in the future :-( good vid
@mutleyadamsracing26844 жыл бұрын
This applies to those who want one(1) bike to do it all except for mountain bike trails...For those who want a bike to ride in all terrains and weather, buy a disc bike. If you're a pure roadie that only rides road in dry weather, buy a rim bike. Issue settled.
@onilovni12345 жыл бұрын
As a rider who comes the world of mountain biking, I find this video really funny because the last time I saw a MTB with rim brakes is about 15 years ago. Road bikers need to understand that discs are just better as a braking system. It's not a coincidence that almost every other braking systems in the world of transport rely on disc brakes to stop a wheel. In addition, you get the through axle, also not very recent in MTB, and it makes your bike a lot stiffer and more planted on the road. But if you go with disc brakes on your road bike, just have the decency to put a 160mm rotor on the front, not a 140mm rotor, unless you weigh 98 pounds.
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
Hey Anthony, cheers for the comment. Like I mentioned in the intro, I didn't want to make this a RIM V DISC thing, as they both have pros and cons (not to mention it's done Ad nauseam on youtube). I more wanted to comment on the many things I've heard in bunches and in forums about road disc that don't do the technology any favours, as most of them are down right wrong. I think if I had gone into this experience with a little more knowledge about the system, it would have been way more painless.
@dingodoggy665 жыл бұрын
Totally agree with the 160 rotor on the front. My TCR came with a 140 which I changed out. Big improvement.
@DanTuber5 жыл бұрын
@@dingodoggy66 please explain. What difference does 20 provide?
@DavidWard145 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisMillerCycling Thanks for the video! You've done a good job to not make it a rim vs disc but it's inevitable in the comments section.
@thesoultwins724 жыл бұрын
Anthony HT...….....sorry but your argument is utterly nonsensical. Mountain bikes are a completely different animal compared with road-bikes - different terrain, technique, speeds, weather and function. [and by the way, I have raced in both disciplines]. The most important factors in modern road-frame construction is weight and stiffness. These are both greatly compromised by using disc brakes as opposed to rim brakes. Aerodynamically, rim brakes are far superior compared with discs - again, another important element in road-bike set-ups. To the best of my knowledge, mountain bikes are not directly affected by these factors. Indeed the main reason mountain bikes actually require greater braking efficiency is because of the terrain [which may be muddy, rocky, uneven and heavily cambered] and the sheer weight of the machines. Compare too the tyres and wheel-sets on a road bike and a mountain-bike. Even when I used 'slicks' on my mountain bike they were considerably heavier and wider than on my road bike. But at the end of the day - the biggest difference is in what you actually use the two different types of bikes for. I always used my mountain bike for 'winter-training' - for fun when the weather was bad. And although I competed in endurance events they were considerably shorter compared to road-races. I agree that discs probably 'lend' themselves far better to mountain biking than the old center-pull system etc. But the same rule of thumb simply does not apply with road brakes. And bearing in mind the one main benefit of disc brakes [better in the wet] to the numerous disadvantages [weight, high maintenance, less user-friendly and cost] I know which I prefer!
@marcocasamassima3892 жыл бұрын
The worst thing about disc brakes, from my point of view, is that the cycling industry is forcing them into the market. I would like to have a new, well equipped bike, with rim brakes but it seems like impossible nowadays :( Another thing is that the bike prices are very much increased by the introduction of disc brakes. This "technology" becomes very expensive when you want to reduce weight.
@blakegillmer5 жыл бұрын
Great work Chris been on a Scott Foil Premium Disc for a year now. This video answers a lot of the questions people ask when they see u on disc.
@dingodoggy665 жыл бұрын
What about track wear on carbon rims? Overheating and destroying carbon rims. Big plus for me (and wheel designers) is my rims stay pristine. Sure I’ll eventually have to change a rotor, but I’m cool with that. Also you didn’t touch on brake modulation. Thanks for the vid.
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
Hey Richard, totally agree ... hence I really don't think it's a myth. The hype around modulation (when the bike is set up and working well) is from what I can tell pretty correct. Wanted to concentrate a little more on the things we are told that didn't live up to expectation ... good and bad.
@clinthoneycutt42465 жыл бұрын
I agree with Richard. Not only do the rims stay pristine, but they look better as well (easily noticeable on alloy rims [no brake track]). Also, the ability to change out a wide array of tire and rim combos and not needing to adjust brakes...You could get into the whole hydraulic disc aspect too. Keep up the good work. I really look forward to all your videos. I appreciate the work you do!
@babybelkin9775 жыл бұрын
Richard Bull how often have you worn out a rim .most of the time it’s boredom with your old wheel and wanting something new , and I have been riding probably longer than you have been alive for.
@CryWolfFilms5 жыл бұрын
Carbon rims arent being 'destroyed' by rim brakes unless you're using the wrong brake pads or your pushing the brajes as hard as you can down a 20% grade decsent
@rollinrat48504 жыл бұрын
Jesse Compton Where I live its an issue. We have lots of fast steep roads, 2000’ + descents above the valley. We see lots of failed carbon rim brake type rims. Theres lots of crazy fast cyclists in my area. But the bigger question is why use carbon rims for anything besides racing? Im a shop mechanic in a high end shop. Ive built wheels for 30 years. I see it all. I used to machine and inspect carbon structures for satellites, spacecraft and aircraft. My life is no less valuable, as far as Im concerned! I refuse to ride on Asian made carbon ANYTHING. I can get this stuff at cost. Carbon rims arent that much lighter than alloy until you get into the aero profiles. Metals have a more desireable failure mode. My advice is: STOP paying attention to marketing BS. EVEN THOUGH its ‘job security’ for me!!
@siclmn5 жыл бұрын
For 35 years I was replacing my rims every 3 to 4 years because they would become thin and down to the wear indicators. Why in the Hell would I buy expensive carbon rims with rim brakes? Now that I have disk brakes that can't happen. My braking is always smooth now.
@rollinrat48504 жыл бұрын
Do you ride in the rain lots? If not,somethings wrong or youre hauling heavy loads. Why carbon rims anyway? What did marketing tell you was so great about them? Who inspected your carbon stuff? How do YOU KNOW its safe? I used to build carbon aerospace components. Ive machined it and inspected it. I wrench in a shop now. Ive cut up carbon bike parts. Even though I can get this junk at cost I wont ride it. I know better.
@rollinrat48503 жыл бұрын
@Steve King I wrench in a shop in my retirement. I was once a mechanical inspector in my 30 year career. Keep a good eye on your brake track. ESPECIALLY that front rim. Anything involving the front of the bike is a potential safety issue. If something in this area fails, chances are you'll lose control, crash or much worse. Watch for damage, anomalies, bumps and lumps or have them periodically inspected by a professional shop. It's Best done in a truing stand. If you start having issues you might be able to feel it through the brake levers when you're s applying the brakes. I work in a large chain of high end shops. We are the largest sellers of one of the 3 biggest brands in California. We warranty damaged and poorly manufactured carbon rims (used with caliper brakes) all the time. Its a very common problem. Just understand that carbon structures require LOTS of in process inspection. (in the high quality manufacturing world) This isn't happening in the larger bike industry. It costs way too much. You think your rims are expensive? Think again! I worked in high reliability manufacturing all my career. Human lives depend on bikes too!! Never forget that!! Marketing and sales are what drives the bike industry. Engineers need to work around marketing and sales goals. Profits, stockholders and that good old bottom line call the shots. Marketing is nothing but brainwashing and propaganda. You must educate yourself to get good value. If anything, buy carbon products with a solid lifetime warranty. Never buy Chinese garbage. The carbon manufacturing industry is very dirty, wasteful and polluting. I know this from building satellite components. Nothing is recyclable and it goes directly into landfill. You want to talk about a carbon footprint? Check this out: www.outsideonline.com/2261721/dirty-secret-hiding-your-high-end-mountain-bike
@jeffroom3 жыл бұрын
Most important thing is the tires...ask 2 rider with Disc and RIM to descent and jam the brake, see which bike stop faster!?!?!?!
@georgewilyman42673 жыл бұрын
Maybe they are relatively redundant in warm climates, where road surfaces are generally better. Riding in the UK, they are so much better. The braking ability on wet days is consistent with dry days. I agree that the braking point is later with discs, surely this is an advantage when you are faced with an obstacle (i.e. oncoming tractor down a narrow decent). Last point, I have recently replaced both road bikes with discs, this is off the back of delaminating two sets of carbon wheels in three years. The cost of replacing a disc vs a rim was a massive consideration in the switch.
@katomiler8434 жыл бұрын
So much more complicated, difficult to maintain = expensive to own. Add hydraulics and it's even worse. Benefits of disc over rim, where I live, on a road bike... pointless.
@brendavane91485 жыл бұрын
Nice Donald Rumsfeld reference. I think you would be looking for unknown unknowns.
@plantfuelled89125 жыл бұрын
We're all gonna go disc brake? I've used disk brakes for over 10 years on MTBs, and I'd always recommend them for that application. I can also true rotors, bleed systems, align pads, change pads, clean pistons etc etc. I have no learning curve for disk brakes and I have all the tools. However I will NEVER go disk on my road bike, it's too complicated, heavy and the tolerances are too small. The gains are just too marginal, compared with modern rim including direct mount that are especially good on some of the better ceramic coated alloy rims that have wheelsets in the perfectly reasonable 1400g range. To be brutally honest I'm pretty fed up with people that know very little about disk brakes telling me I need to get them or that they are the future.
@swites5 жыл бұрын
I agree. I used to ride mtb's before they had disc brakes. On a mtb you NEED disc brakes and are game changer. On a roadbike though? Give me a break! The whole point on a roadbike in a road race, is to use your brakes as little as possible. My next bike frame is from a bike manufacturer that gives people the choice, so they can decide for themselves.
@rollinrat48504 жыл бұрын
swites You dont ‘need’ discs for MTBs either. I rode the same technical rocky trails (in all weather)on caliper brakes,still do. Discs are a good improvement however. Theyll save your hands and arms. I use them too. Ceramic rims (nearly forgotten) abrasive pads, strong v brakes, compressionless housing and good set up will be nearly as effective as discs. And you dont ‘need’ this high end of a system. Many riders (especially roadies!) real problem is knowing how to use the their brakes, especially the front and knowing how to set up and maintain them for best operation. When disc brakes arrived on the scene, I saw riders skidding into corners much more often and ‘steering’ with brakes. This is bad technique. Heavily used steep trail in my area are often not much fun anymore without full suspension because of brake bumps. I wrench in a shop and its far more common to replace rear pads, which tells me riders dont use front brakes. You should be replacing front pads almost twice as often as the rears. Just like motor vehicles, proper braking is done 70% by fronts because of weight transfer. Technique, skill, fitness and mindset are 2/3 the challenge. The bike wont make you a better rider.But youll never hear this from the marketeers!
@wangdangdoodie4 жыл бұрын
@@rollinrat4850 Rubbish. Excessive front braking will merely propel the rider over the bars.
@rollinrat48504 жыл бұрын
mascara snake You get your weight back and down. Lower your center of gravity! Try to sit on the back tire down steep hills. (But Dont really sit on it!) Works for me! That's what dropper posts and Seat QRs are for. Any decent front brake will cause you to go over the bars if you don't know how the use them! Of course excessive braking isn't good. The rear will just skid out of control too! I'd guess you need some antilock braking on your bike! Like I've said, 1st learn how to ride a bike and keep it under control. Then worry about upgrading it. Learn how your brakes work. It will make you a faster and safer rider. Just like a car, the front brake can do the majority of the stopping. Your momentum and the brake action shifts your weight to the front wheel as you slow down.
@rexringschott5 жыл бұрын
Disc brakes are fiddly. You get a ticking sound from your front disc, ‘Cause your rotor is a little out of true. Or it squeals all the time, Or you can’t centre the calipers properly because the pistons don’t extend at the same rate as one is a little bit more sticky than the other. These things are a pain and it takes ages to track down the problem because the KZbin advice videos on these obtuse topics are hard to find. Then you need special expensive tools to undo centre lock rotors, and Shimano’s website is useless in telling you what pads are compatible with the brake calipers on your bike, and the LBS doesn’t stock your type when you do eventually find out. And not to mention bleeding the brakes and flushing the brake lines (which I haven’t had to do yet thank goodness) . But by gee When you invest the time and the money and you learn how to look after your own disc pads, you’ll be a hero to all your mates who are starting to get them because they’ll have absolutely no idea.
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
Couldn't have (didn't) say it better myself. Great comment Rex
@wangdangdoodie4 жыл бұрын
Utter tosh. In twenty years of using hydraulic disc systems I've never faced any of those issues. I have encountered them on friends bikes which were poorly maintained or featured inexpensive, badly designed components (including, in the early days frames that were never really designed to take discs). The vast majority of reputable disc systems on the market today are self centering, and as for bleeding, well if you can turn on a tap at your sink, you can bleed a brake system.
@rexringschott4 жыл бұрын
@@wangdangdoodie Well aren't you just the ticket then?
@johnandrews35683 жыл бұрын
Disk brakes.. like wider tires and e-shifting are all marketing. They don't make the riding experience better. I've never had catastrophic brake or shifting failures on rim brakes/mechanical shifting. And back in my racing days we raced on 19mm sections at 140psi. When did a squishy tire that weighs more become a good thing for fast, performance riding/racing?
@sandgroper19705 жыл бұрын
I can see disc brakes are going to be the future of cycling as more and more manufacturers are producing discbrake only models. Which means someone who has limited mechanical ability is going to spending a lot more money on the bike shop mechanics. For the type of riding I do I can see no benefits to disc brakes and the added complexity of them, rim brakes work just fine.
@kalijasin3 жыл бұрын
Richard Carapaz blew everyones mind when he won the Gold medal 2020 Tokyo olympics on Rim brakes. 😂Everyone was like 😮
@bikemirror66202 жыл бұрын
It is not complicated. You just need to spend time to learn how to use them properly.
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
@@bikemirror6620 BS. Disc brakes are far more difficult to maintain.
@YuichiTamaki11 ай бұрын
@@rosomak8244unless you have to bleed them (which is rare) aligning and changing pads is a piece of cake.
@ezeekwheel2 жыл бұрын
the only way they descend faster is on a straight descent because they weigh more
@oldbrokenwrench4 жыл бұрын
There is one reason and one reason only why disc brakes will take over the rim brakes, Carbon wheels. If you use alloy wheels it is totally personal preference. I’m in the composite business and I have a trash bin in the back full with carbon wheels coming apart, only because of rim brakes on carbon wheels. The wheel companies are tired of forking out warranty money, and when personal injury is involved, settlement payout. Solution; don’t make a carbon wheel compatible with rim brakes. It is all about liability, period. You cannot argue with the word “is”. “Is” by definition absolute. It is the truth whether you want to believe or not. The proof is in the trash bin in back.
@mcgkpsc1235 жыл бұрын
A couple of other questions and or myths. Brake rubbing on disc brakes slows climbing speed. You have to wear in disc brakes. When the overheat they expand and create a scratching noise. Good video. Maybe a part 2?
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
Hey Michael, great comment and some super suggestions there. The climbing one is something I was thinking about including but I think it maybe warrants it's own video. Now that Junior has his XR4, I was thinking maybe we go out and race each other up a few climbs ... stay tuned.
@shannontrainer58573 жыл бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJ7UeJiCg8iJf8k
@attybong3 жыл бұрын
the debate is over .. this year's grand tours reveal that in road racing, world pro riders need no disk brakes to win the gc .. end of story
@freddiefuckenflintstone26235 жыл бұрын
If you ride disc brakes you don’t need to wear a helmet
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
🥺
@swites5 жыл бұрын
You also can't lose grip and slide out going around a corner. Just ask those Quickstep guys in Tour of Basque Country on stage 4
@rollinrat48504 жыл бұрын
Freddie fucken Flintstone Good one. Brain is optional too. Or questionable!
@bluetooth20004 жыл бұрын
Or even brain!
@S1ngleboy3 жыл бұрын
guys does disk brakes can be work not proper in the rain? do u know anything about this?(sry for my english if i write this comment wrong -_-)
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
What to expect: 1. More weight. 2. Sudden brake capability loss. 3. Metallic rubbing noises. 4. Constant maintenance hassle. 5. Not being able to buy breaking pads in a few years.
@markflajsner99442 жыл бұрын
Pro cyclists have been shooting at 70kph+ down the Alps or Pyrenees in the TdF with caliper brakes and living to tell the tale, so is this a question of pro vs amateur and/or racing vs endurance - I'm an amateur endurance biker and have both, but prefer the caliper, not racing, not descending at illegal speeds and clean my wheels/chain/brakes after a days rigourous riding. Can have plenty of fun with rubber...
@dinodaniel2237 Жыл бұрын
For me it’s rim brakes. Great video Chris !
@ronbyers99125 жыл бұрын
Disc brakes have allowed bike designers to introduce variation in wheel and tire size. Many of us are running bigger tires and wheels using disc brakes than we were using rim brakes. It has to do with the shaping of the fork. With a disc brake you don't have to hang a precisely sized rim brake on the fork. That allows you greater tire and even wheel options.
@lukemanion65555 жыл бұрын
Ron Byers that’s true but when you’re in a cycling team like Team Nero Bianchi it’s a pain when guys run different brake systems for spares during races and the collection of race wheels. So we still run rim brakes at the moment across all the XR4s.
@HolmsOnBikes5 жыл бұрын
Yeah, see I disagree. Raul Leuscher from Leuscher Teknik makes a living off of repairing carbon bike parts. He even said that carbon rims overheating is a huge problem and he sees it happening on pretty much every single brand carbon clincher rims. Even he says that disc brakes are the ONLY option if the industry is going to continue using carbon clinchers. He will actually lose some business with more people on disc brakes, so it isn't like he has anything to gain by telling people to use disc brakes. Rim brakes on a carbon clincher is a horrible idea every way you look at it. Horrible braking, wearing down your $2,500 rims, resins over heating and becoming soft.....disc brakes are not an answer to a problem that never existed. Just listen to one of Raul's videos and you'll see that there is a HUGE problem with rim brake carbon clinchers.
@texrgb5 жыл бұрын
Simple solution, don't use carbon rims
@HolmsOnBikes5 жыл бұрын
@@texrgb well now explain to me why people that use carbon wheels would want to ever switch back to a heavier, slower wheelset?
@texrgb5 жыл бұрын
@@HolmsOnBikes I don't need to explain anything, if you use carbon with disc, but believe that there is a massive difference in weight, compared to highend rim, without disc, go for it. I would suggest you buy a new set of scales though.
@HolmsOnBikes5 жыл бұрын
@@texrgb lol so then why don't the pros use "high-end aluminum wheels? Paaahahahaha. Imagine how heavy a 50mm deep all aluminum wheel would be. Aluminum wheels are heavier, not as stiff, not as aero, and not as responsive OR handle like a set of nice, stiff, solid carbon wheels. Oh yeah, AND carbon wheels don't need to be trued nonstop like junk aluminum ones do lol
@texrgb5 жыл бұрын
@@HolmsOnBikes are you a pro? You get you gear and kit supplied? Free... Your own team mechanic that sorts your bikes issue and problems out at no cost to you? Man, you wanna follow the marketing hipe, go ahead.
@sir_cornholio53 жыл бұрын
You didn't mention the 600 plus extra grams of weight for discs. But great video!
@bikemirror66202 жыл бұрын
You got everything right. Rim and disc are different. So don't expect that it will give you same result for the same pressure you apply on the levers. You just need to learn how to use them properly
@rlsedition3 жыл бұрын
If you road bike guys would accept a little more weight in exchange for better braking, you'd put a larger front rotor on your bikes and have much better braking performance than you can get with rim brakes on carbon rims. You might want to look at motorcycles, especially motoGP race bikes with lightweight carbon rotors.
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
You can only lock up the wheel once. There is no more breaking power required than already is there.
@rlsedition Жыл бұрын
@@rosomak8244 Rim brakes on carbon rims are not a good mix, but hydraulic disc brakes are. Brand name discs have plenty of modulation so you don't just lock up the wheel.
@attybong4 жыл бұрын
week #1 in this year's tdf reveals that .. 1. most stages were won by riders on rim brakes .. 2. as shown by what had happened to astana's miguel angel lopez. disk brakes can cause the skinny tyres of roadbikes to skid on the wet and therefore more dangerous to riders ... 3. wheels with disk brakes are difficult to change, just ask julian alaphillippe's mechanic about it .. so, other than marketing and hype, what do they need disk brakes on roadbikes for? (lol !!)
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
They need them to provide a "novelty" to justify higher pricing overall.
@cookingconfessions3 жыл бұрын
I do agree. Rimbrakes were FINE, but discs just had to emerge and they so look and feel great and offer immense stopping power. I already have a mountain bike where discs are standard on any plus mid level bike (unless you buy it in a garden-center. On my race bike in just had to have it because it was cool, but in retrospect I think I would have gone for rim brakes...
@BlaqRaq2 жыл бұрын
Let’s cut the chase. Disc brakes offers better braking. However everything has its disadvantage(s) For rapid changes, rim brakes cannot be beaten by disc brakes. Adjustments are just simpler and quicker with rim brakes. Now, disc brakes shines supreme when the rim is not true (for some reason or the other). Here’s a big thing: if your tube/tyre should leave the rim (especially on the front), you are not in danger of that catching the brake and throwing you to the moon - happened to me before. The disc brakes works better in the wet than rimmers. And less easily contaminated by mud and so on. For the rim brake have the weight record. Lighter mechanism. Easily inspected for wear. But the disc preserves the rim.
@raunefare Жыл бұрын
They generally also have better tire clearance. Making the bike more versatile.
@Steve-jo3cl5 жыл бұрын
Great vid there Champ !!! here is my issue with Disc brakes and you even stated it, ABS Disc brakes are really touchy people are going to get into a emergency braking situation and just like in cars where people panic and stomp on the brake pedal and lock everything up the same will apply to Disc brakes on a bike and we all know what happens when a front wheel locks up on a 2 wheeler .... 99% of people are going to kissing that bitchmen pretty hard .... As you stated braking technique ... lets go there 99% of people in cars , on push bikes dont know how to brake correctly, least of all when a emergency braking situation happens. I practice a emergency braking application every single time I ride before leaving my street. My suggestion is every single person out there do the same, but hey what would I know.
@rollinrat48504 жыл бұрын
The Rant Im a mechanic in a high end shop. I see it every day . So many riders dont know how to use the brakes they have and they think upgrading brakes makes them safer. This is what marketeers tell them! I tell people all the time, ride in a grassy field, wear some padding, try applying brakes as hard as you dare, both together and one at a time. Lock them up. Get into slides. Test the limits of traction. Mark out stopping points and practice stopping in the shortest distance possible. This kind of stuff can save lives. So what if you get a few scrapes and grass stains!
@andysatch91504 жыл бұрын
You can easily over power the available traction of a road bike tyre with rim brakes, at any speed, proving once and for all that discs are an unnecessary addition to a road bike. Plus if they were overly beneficial, the pro's would have them on every bike in the peleton immediately, by choice, and not by commercial necessity from their sponsors.............. They don't.
@pocoapoco2 Жыл бұрын
You will lose lateral rigidity of the wheel with a disc brake. I never see ANYONE mention that.
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
You will have to make the front fork far too stiff and the hub and axle far to overbuilt. You will have to make the wheel far too rigid.
@myscreen2urs2 жыл бұрын
I just restored a bike and installed disc brakes for the first time in my life. OMG! What a bloody nightmare! I'm having a really bad time time with it. My brake pad were overhanging despite having the correct adapter for the rotor size, the breaking force is so bad despite thoroughly bedding them in, I can't even lock the wheel up with them, and they shudder all the time. It feels like squeezing a cheese grater. I'm troubleshooting like crazy and I'm still in the dark about what to expect from disc brakes. Are they suppose to feel rough like that? I thought discs were supposed to have more braking power resulting in shorter braking distance. Why are they taking 2-3 times longer to bring me to a stop than my rim brakes? I'm using a 203mm rotor on the back and a 160mm on the front. On my rim brake bike, I tend to use just the rear brake most of the time but with these disc brakes, I have to use both front and back all the time if I want to live. What am I doing wrong?
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
My experience is similar. And I'm wrenching on bikes since over 40 years. You got what they really are. The rest is BS and tons of people buying in to marketing claims that don't relate to reality.
@froggy01624 жыл бұрын
Rotors don’t warp when overheated. They go purple and you’ll get brake fade when really cooked, but the rotors are fine afterwards. I’ve had smoke pouring out of them....
@alanhill79655 жыл бұрын
Hey Chris you do the slickest and most informative video's,,,and most enjoyable thanks !
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Alan
@jram52635 жыл бұрын
Damn good video, cheers
@javierLuengo5 жыл бұрын
Great video!! ( Got a Specialissima after your videos!)
@AdamJStoryDC5 жыл бұрын
Finally...someone said it. Thank you.
@elliotchilton79985 жыл бұрын
Hey Chris, Could you do a video on your experience and opinion on the Wahoo Element Bolt, noticed you have been using it lately. Very interested in seeing how you have found it so far...!
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
Will do Elliot. Always at pains to review those products just because DCRM does such a good job on them. That said, I think we can bring a unique look at it given a bit of time. I do like the bolt though
@coco72903 жыл бұрын
What do you mean by "different break point"? It's either early breaking or later breaking due to the performance of the breaking, you always want last minute break and exit the corner, lets talk science not subjective fellings
@martincoupe75705 жыл бұрын
well done mate one the best reviews i`ve seen in ages well done for dumbing it down for those dinosaurs out there maybe you should have a word with durianrider ex pro rider mmm yer right says disk are slower cause they rub mine dont great clip as most of yours are
@martincoupe75705 жыл бұрын
@daAnder71 who really care`s as long as people understand it but thank you so very much
@davevaughn62933 жыл бұрын
Great video , great information love your channel 👍
@davezor21 Жыл бұрын
Long live rim brakes!
@HolmsOnBikes5 жыл бұрын
How is it NOT safer to remove the braking from a carbon clincher on a super steep, long descent? No more carbon rims over heating because they have to act as a wheel AND also as a braking surface. A wheel is a wheel, and a disc brake is JUST a brake....nothing has to act as something it isn't anymore. A wheel isn't a braking surface, nothing else with wheels has the wheel itself acting as a brake surface. And for good reason.
@ezeekwheel2 жыл бұрын
some cargo bike company has actualy made a bike with abs 🤣🤣
@ChrisMillerCycling2 жыл бұрын
Yeh I saw that. Looks kinda interesting
@glennsullivan71775 жыл бұрын
Great video Chris and one of the best ones on rim V disc. Totally agree re maintenance. I have 2 disc bikes and have now become an expert (un wantingly) on all things maintenance and the never-ending search for silent braking! One thing I would mention as a huge pro for discs is the wheels. Wheels can now be made for what they are meant to do rather than a wheel with a brake track added. For me, when they are quiet (not rubbing) and operating perfectly, they are similar and no huge advantage in the dry but a huge step up in the wet and especially V rim on carbon wheels.
@wangdangdoodie4 жыл бұрын
A wheel with a braking surface will always be a compromise.
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
@@wangdangdoodie Applying the breaking force laterally at a bad lever will always be ... actually just silly.
@troycollett85405 жыл бұрын
I think as years go by companies will research and refine the design of disc brakes
@ProblemChild-xk7ix2 жыл бұрын
What the companies will do is convince you to spend more money!
@troycollett85402 жыл бұрын
@@ProblemChild-xk7ix utter bs
@marcusantonyledulx4 жыл бұрын
A great video. The only criticism is that it was comparing Braking systems but stopping distance of Rim vs Disc wasn't mentioned. If you're doing 50kmh & a car cuts you off at a tee junction, which system will slow you more?
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
Neither. There is only so much braking you can do until your wheel locks up. However disc brakes tend to be far less reliable and unpredictable in performance when worn.
@marcusantonyledulx4 жыл бұрын
It's cheaper to replace a worn disc compared to an expensive rim, that has been scoured by Grit, Flint, Mud & Shrapnel. Rim blocks collect a lot of mess.
@LECOMAYAGUA4 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes simple low maintenance and efficient
@rlsedition3 жыл бұрын
Efficient on carbon rims? Nonsense.
@artificiallift91105 жыл бұрын
Loved this one!
@Commander_ZiN11 ай бұрын
You're seat belt is twisted in the car, if you have an impact like that it'll hurt you much worse. It's worth taking a second to untwist.
@markreams31925 жыл бұрын
Once you know how to set them up, they’re not difficult to work on. I rode 12,000 miles last year and went through 3 sets of pads and one set of rotors so they require a bit more maintenance. Their performance is worth it.
@stagumphs5 жыл бұрын
I was coming down Rockley in the B2B this year at 90 km/hr in the wet and I did think in a fleeting moment as I had to brake briefly I wonder if disc’s would be better...
@darrenhill85035 жыл бұрын
Hi Chris. I have a question pertaining to the differences as you see them and from riding both the XR3 and XR4? Could you please do a segment on this question please as i have an XR3 and an Infinito CV and i am thinking about another Bianchi. Im torn between the XR4 or the Specialissima.
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
Hey Darren, I'll do my best, but like I stress in this video, comparing a disc brake bike to a rim brake bike is a challenge, as they are very different beasts. It's interesting, I know one of the guys in the team who runs an XR3 rim brake and his experience is very different to mine on the disc version. That said, I'll so my best to put my thoughts down on the two soon enough .
@darrenhill85035 жыл бұрын
Chris Miller Cycling thank you I really appreciate your help in this matter as I’m in love with all of my Bianchi bikes
@frogwater094 жыл бұрын
What do you think about rim wear off especially carbon rim when using rim brakes. Planning to get next bike still rim brakes but concern about carbon rim wear
@ChrisMillerCycling4 жыл бұрын
So much of it depends on where you ride. For my city riding and racing I can get seasons and seasons out of carbon clinchers, but if I lived somewhere with longer descents (especially ones where you could get stuck behind a car) rim where would certainly be something I would have to pay more attention to. That said one of the great misnomers with disc brakes is the fact you will go through disc rotors quite regularly.
@nickmannerings35743 жыл бұрын
I’ve got 21,000 miles on Zipp carbon rim brakes. Still going strong. Ridden in mountains from time to time.
@shannontrainer58573 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisMillerCycling You do know that disc rotors are a cheap and easy to replace, compared to replacing the whole rim, which you need a nipple wrench, truing stand, dishing tool, spoke tension gauge, and a LOT of hour-long KZbin videos about wheel building.
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
@@shannontrainer5857 Truing stand? - That's your bike up side down and a zipper cut short or just the brake calipers slightly turned to one side. Tension gauge? - Finger feel is completely adequate for a simplistic device like a bike. Dishing stand? - I guess you will have a bucket somewhere. True it. Ride it. It's not rocket science. A bike is mechanically simple unless you start to artificially introduce crap.
@shannontrainer5857 Жыл бұрын
@@rosomak8244 But is a bike frame accurate to within 0.01 on a inch compared to a truing stand with dial gauges? No. Does fingers that is prone to human error give you a accurate numerical reading? No. Does a bucket and eyeballing it tells you whether or not your wheel is off-center compared to a calibrated device? No.
@kidsafe5 жыл бұрын
I feel it's a lot easier to modulate/feather a brake when intentionally going hot into a corner until you hit the apex...especially in inclement conditions. So yeah brake points are different, but you're also willing to scrub less speed and brake through to the apex on a disc bike.
@kevinmcilduff60375 жыл бұрын
Good video Chris #mythbuster 👍🏼
@Frost-12094 жыл бұрын
Hey Christ, Intenso vs Infinitoi CV? What's your recommendation? Is CV model really money worth it?
@richardvacanti91034 жыл бұрын
I know how to make my bike faster. I’ll put new handlebar tape on it now it feels like a whole new bike. Wow what do you think will happen if I put air in the tires.!!!!!!!!!
@ChrisMillerCycling4 жыл бұрын
Air in the tyres?! 🤯😂
@Integralfitness.5 жыл бұрын
Bro, disc is a must. Braking power plus other factors (which won't be mentioned to avoid confusion) are very important to going faster. Know this; no rational person goes fast if there are concerns about stopping sooner. Just watch video on motorcycle vs f1 cars when they go in and out of corners. That's a good starting point to understand braking power. The F1 car is bisc brakes and the motorcycle is rim brakes. Both are nice but, I would surely love to have stopping power of the F1 car on my 1000cc sports bike.
@mosca32895 жыл бұрын
ABE M I think you’ll find motorcycles use disc brakes.
@jamesmallory21495 жыл бұрын
Yes, but I can lock my wheels with my rim brakes (on alloy wheels). It's not possible to exert any greater stopping power than that. Perhaps you're talking about carbon wheels, perhaps in the wet. I wish people would clarify their comments.
@Rshorttt5 жыл бұрын
Great job!
@saveriodipoce22012 жыл бұрын
The only thing disc brakes are good for are.On a rainy day with carbon wheels,or long down hill on carbon wheels on hot days,that is it.If you have aluminium wheels,you don't need discs,save your money.
@troycollett85405 жыл бұрын
I have heard the modulation is better for discs and therefore some riders will find it a more powerful brake
@ChrisMillerCycling5 жыл бұрын
Hey Troy, certainly not arguing the modulation of the brakes (when set up correctly) are great. But grabbing a fistful of brake on disc will have the same result of grabbing a fistful of brake on rim. I suppose the reason I wanted to highlight that "myth" is I've seen guys who were super nervous descenders (me), get on a disc brake bike and think they are suddenly Vincenzo Nibali. Going down hill fast and safely is a skill learnt over many years, just want people to realise that when they point their disc brake bike down the local hill for the first time.
@troycollett85405 жыл бұрын
Chris Miller Cycling yeah that’s what I wondered.the other thing I have heard is consistent braking performance
@DelPi19745 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisMillerCycling So true. Friend of mine crashed on a local descent while trying to get a KOM, that was a turning point for him to go for disc, got the disc bike, crashed again. No comment. :)
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
Get compression less cabling and stiff pads. There is your magic "modulation".
@johnclement76213 жыл бұрын
Solution to a problem that didn’t exist.... mechanics hate them, and blimey they rub and squeal
@annegrey-blackman59343 жыл бұрын
If 'mechanics' hate them, then perhaps they shouldn't be mechanics!
@barkeater78675 жыл бұрын
braking earlier might prevent washout at the bottom of the turn where gravity and the other forces combine to make you shit out. its pretty minor . I agree with you but there are small bennies.
@Alllivesmatterloveeverone3 жыл бұрын
I'll never be on bisc.
@therainbowgulag.3 жыл бұрын
The disadvantages of disks are weight, faff and cost. Also if you want to upgrade your wheels it's mucho casho.
@sbsb49955 жыл бұрын
So true to what you said. Disc brakes are marketing gimmick.
@edoA504 жыл бұрын
Are we really eventually going to only get disc brakes in the future? The Bianchi with the black contrast looks cool btw.
@CryWolfFilms5 жыл бұрын
Lol 3:43 - 3:48
@glennoc85855 жыл бұрын
Thru axle is more solid feeling to me but you can buy thru axle rim brake bikes more prefer
@usman51404 жыл бұрын
I totally disagree about descending on rim vs disc. If you descend very steep stuff, it makes a world of difference. Disc brakes have so much more stopping power than rim brakes.
@fetB2 жыл бұрын
3:15 how different? What exactly does that mean specifically. Just different doesnt mean anything, really
@bertbikeblah72045 жыл бұрын
I went back to rim brakes because they are SO much easier to maintain and repair, especially in the middle of nowhere.
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
And they are far more reliable in the long run. When disc brakes fail they tend to fail catastrophically.
@brentboost28793 жыл бұрын
Not a myth that discs suck
@elijahkwon4224 жыл бұрын
Disc Brakes 'can' make you a faster descender not a 'better descender'.
@paulhowell71035 жыл бұрын
bonza mate
@jeffcoulter71814 жыл бұрын
New technology! They are not, MTBs have had disc breaks for 25 years and they are not that different.
@robtankbuster52154 жыл бұрын
Right, how did we make it 25 years without disc brakes on road racers😉,to be honest I didn't know i had a braking problem with rims.
@jeffcoulter71814 жыл бұрын
Rob Tankbuster, riding rim breaks in the rain is not great in my experience.
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
@@jeffcoulter7181 Discs don't perform better. And the pads will be gone in no time. People claim that they are better, but no-one is actually riding in the rain that much in reality.
@jeffcoulter7181 Жыл бұрын
@@rosomak8244 I’ve had a disk brake road bike for almost 3 years and they are a quantum leap better in every regard. That’s why you can’t buy a good quality road bike without disk brakes now.
@damianlowe78083 жыл бұрын
Disc Brakes work on mountain bikes! Bigger caliper, bigger rotas which all helps heat dissipation! Road bike have smaller calipers, smaller rotas but twice the speed!! Fading of brakes on bike road bikes is increased by 4x!!! Not ideal.
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
Mountain bikes are motorcycle emulators for adolescent boys. They don't do serious distance riding at all.
@nipplegripple85813 жыл бұрын
IF YOU WEAR DISC BRAKES...YOU DONT NEED TO WEAR A HELMET!!!
@MarufoVega5 жыл бұрын
What? You don't like my nose?
@DavidWard145 жыл бұрын
Haha 😄
@LECOMAYAGUA4 жыл бұрын
Disk brakes much more difficult / expensive to maintain
@ChrisMillerCycling4 жыл бұрын
The maintenance factor is one that I never knew would have been such an issue