Going Back To Rim Brakes | Why I’m leaving Disc Brakes Behind

SUBSCRIBE: bit.ly/2gMWc1t
An honest look at our experience riding disc brakes for the last 7 months. We really want to stress this is chris’ own personal experience riding disc brakes and these are the factors that fit the type of riding he does. we would love to hear your thoughts and experiences on either riding this style of braking system or even your experience of what bike shops have been suggesting you ride.
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INSTAGRAM: @chrismiller27 @teamnerobianchi
TWITTER: @chrismiller @teamnerobianchi
WEB: neroracingbike.com
STRAVA: / strava
BIKE BIANCHI XR4
GROUPSET: Shimano Dura Ace Di2
FILMING EQUIPMENT: www.sony.com.au/electronics/c...
SERVICE & SUPPORT: Cycling Projects Racing

[@texrgb]

Agree, one hundred percent. Buy the gear to suit your application, not because the bike industry dictate it. Well said Chris.

[@diemman70]

texrgb I’m with yah too. Rim brakes are so easy to maintain and disc brakes can be finicky and the parts can become obsolete.

[@joeenglert]

ya, but the bike industry does dictate it...many makers give you no choice...disk or NOTHING

[@texrgb]

@@joeenglert well joe, we all need to speak up to these manufacturers, like we do in these forums. We need to show them by not upgrading our bikes to newer models and telling them why we are not doing it.

[@joeenglert]

@@texrgb GOOD POINT! Get em where it hurts...in their wallets. I believe that Specialized, Trek, Canondale...just offer disc only...not sure about colnago ...Pinarello does offer options

[@cannonjabari310]

sorry to be so off topic but does anybody know a tool to log back into an Instagram account? I was stupid forgot the login password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me.

[@alydude2011]

RIM BRAKES FOREVER, period. Nice vid 🚴‍♀️

[@williamko4751]

And mechanical shifter

[@ingguidesmedia]

For my money, you nailed this Chris. I dipped a toe into the disc brake pond, and I went back to rim. The clicking rotor after a wheel change was beyond mere frustration. It robbed me of my peace of mind at the start of every ride. Great videos. I'm glad I disc - covered your channel mate. Jack

[@donnapper882]

down to earth honest opinion without bias. on the internet, who'd a thought?

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Cheers Don

[@billorr948]

Watched this a year ago and just came up on my YT feed again. Hell yeah ! All my friends were getting the disc brakes and all of them were squealing, rattling, rubbing on rides. Thanks Chris for shooting straight and telling us your $0.02 a year ago ! Still happy with my rim breaks and probably remove my wheels 10 to 15 times per month. It would drive me crazy to adjust them every fricken time ! Cheers !

[@oreocarlton3343]

I dont mind discs, but I despise how one sidedly they present it to the buying public

[@lleweybyrne]

Disk brakes for cyclo cross and MTB, callipers for road bikes. So much common sense in this video!

[@swanauto47]

Rim ones are so much easier to work on

[@evanreeves5966]

It's a shame that we're seeing less and less rim brake bikes. They are very simple, convenient for travel, and easier to travel with.

[@mikekelly1771]

Even as a 100kg rider descending Mt. Wellington, I've never found myself wishing for better brakes. Rim brakes work just fine.

[@fucktheworld1207]

"RIM BRAKES" All day everyday 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻 here in Liverpool, England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 where we get a shit load of rain, rim brakes haven't let me down once.....

[@Chris66able]

5 Different cycle mechanics on the Wirral can't get my disc brakes to work as good as rims, and all 5 give different reasons why they don't work properly.

[@johns3106]

I'm 6'5", 215lbs & live in an area with lots of steep hills...I've never felt like I needed any more braking power then my Ultegra calipers provide! I've been riding a long time, and have seen many "must have" trends come along, only to be replaced by yet another, newer, "must have" that the industry keeps trying to convince us we all need.

[@cypriano8763]

exactly, i live in the mountains, ride my tcr in a fair bit of gravel, rain, mud. never feel like i need more braking power. its a road bike, for xsakes you dont need disc brakes on the tarmac, you dont really need the rear brake. save your money, save the weight, save the hassle just keep your rim bike

[@joekawasaki]

I'm 10 lbs lighter than you & I've been sketched out on quick descents over about 15% on aluminum brake track wheels & swiss stop pads! Still on the same Dura-Ace dual pivots right now but if there's improvement at all I'll take it!

[@JengaBikes]

Good comment road bike correct?, I figured getting larger riders into road bikes was the main reason for disc/larger tire clearance, what mm tires do you ride ? I’m 150lbs wishing I had lighter cheaper bike options.

[@johns3106]

@@JengaBikes Like so many other trends, (like disc brakes being “must-haves”) I find the new “wide tire” trend amusing. Sure, wide tires are fine, but so is narrower rubber. Depending on the bike, I run 23c or 25c widths. “Ridiculously narrow!”, I can hear the latest pundits screaming. But, I’m a big guy who frequently rides his road bike on dirt roads, and I do not experience many flats, nor do I find the ride “harsh” or “slow”. My narrow tires, aluminum rims and Ultegra calipers work just fine at getting this XL racer up and down the hills!

[@PeterPutz82]

A good set of direct mount or even standard rim brakes on alloy rims makes for years of squeek free, user friendly riding.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

... and if they do make a slight rub noise ... open the caliper while on the bike and ... keep riding 😁😁

[@cleggycyclist]

ride in the wet and listen to that rim brake noise EVERY TIME YOU APPLY THE BRAKES. For me I have a wet weather bike (Discs) and a dry weather bike (Rims)

[@happydays8171]

Ahhh, but 60 mm carbon fiber rims make any bike look sexy.

[@Methodical2]

My brakes don't squeak with my carbon wheels.

[@casparwhittey]

really appreciated your perspective Chris! Thanks for making the vid

[@mikestv3782]

Rim brakes for me, in 36yrs of racing, sportiffs, descending mountain's at 80-100kph in all different kinds of weather I have never once thought to myself I need better brakes! If you feel that your rim brakes are not stopping you fast enough it maybe time to change the blocks? 😊

[@shamuslamont100]

Lol. Or trade out the cheap tektro calipers!!

[@richardstoner866]

Totally agree

[@occyman]

100%

[@anthonyholmes1704]

Agree! if you cant ride a switchback decent in the wet with DMR then you cant ride a bike

[@rainypath96]

@@shamuslamont100 dude I hit 80kmh descents on tektros all the time lol

[@bertbikeblah7204]

It was the wheel changing that sent me back to rim brakes too!

[@faizalrusli3974]

Discs for my mtb & rim brakes for my roadbike for now. 😁

[@Methodical2]

Same here.

[@nisbend]

@@Methodical2 +1

[@iberiksoderblom]

An Underground Rim Brakes movement is needed. Go URB !!!

[@fernandoespinosa3403]

I agree with you. It’s Great to see someone questioning stuff and analyzing based on own experience and own needs. Cool.

[@caperider1160]

Your points are genuine! But I also have several genuine reasons for choosing a disc brake. It comes down to individual rider's preferences

[@lioneldurrant3789]

I appreciate you for doing this video. Felt honest and heartfelt. 👍🏾

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Thanks Lionel

[@blakegillmer]

Hey Chris great video and I have to say as a disc big own due to a injury. I still have a rim brake bike on the trainer and If I could ride it on the road I would. The disc brake noise kills my life. Great honest and true look at the types we have out there. Good luck on the road trip north guys.

[@rollinrat4850]

If you carry heavy loads, ride in bad weather and or descend big mountains often discs are worthwhile on road bikes. As a mechanic, IMO roads discs need more refinement. They still have issues with rubbing, complexity and expense. MTB discs are great, thats what I use, even on my ‘dirty’ road bike and tourer. I also use caliper brakes on a majority of my bikes. Im a hard core, all conditions, every day rider. I ride and race marathon and endurance style events and a little cyclocross. I also ride singlespeeds and a fixed gear ‘cross bike on mtb trails just for the fun of it! . Before you buy a new disc equipped bike, answer these questions: do you know what the front brake is used for? Do you know it can provide 70% of stopping power? Just like a car? Do you know how to truly panic stop using that front brake? Are you afraid to use it? Do you know if and or how your brakes are set up and maintained to work their absolute best? How often do you replace front pads compared to rear? Im a mechanic. I ask these questions to my customers. I dont even need to. I can tell if you know how to use brakes simply by looking at your brakes, rotors, rims and tires. To best operate discs, they require a little different braking technique than calipers. Caliper brakes can be set up to function nearly as well as discs in dry conditions. There comes a point where too much brake power (especially in rear) just skids tires and you lose control. Fast descenders use brakes as little as possible. Modern direct mount brakes, multi pivot road brakes, v brakes, cantilevers and u brakes can all be set up to function in a safe manner for most typical, fair weather riders. I get them to work acceptably in quite extreme circumstances. I can teach many riders how to maintain their own caliper brakes and to change pads even on discs. But learning about cable pull, cable geometry and hydraulic systems is nit nearly as simple. My advice as a shop mechanic with 50 years riding experience in most cycling disciplines is FIRST LEARN to operate and maintain the brakes you have to their fullest. Find the point where they lock up the wheels( good brakes should be able to lock up). Find the point where you hit brakes hard enough to lift the rear wheel off the ground. Find out the balance point to make this happen. Find out what your bike does when skidding in these scenarios. Find out the quickest way to stop your bike. Only then do you need more powerful brakes!

[@jasonswift7098]

How about if you are a heavy person?

[@rollinrat4850]

Jason Moyle For heavy loads and wet conditions discs 'may' be better. Maybe, maybe not. Its your money and your life is your responsibility ultimately. But not all discs are wonderful stoppers. Some are worse than rim brakes! Most cable discs are insufficient stoppers and can't be made much better. There are only a few exceptions. Ive used cantilevers and v brakes offroad on big steep mountain trails, on loaded touring bikes where myself, the bike and gear weighed near 300 lbs. I thought they worked fine. I'm experienced and smart enough to ride a little more cautiously hauling big loads. The operation and mechanics of ANY brakes make much more difference to how they actually function and how they are applied. Once again, it's your life! The wise thing to do is learn what's best for you. For ultimate braking power, hydro mountain discs with big rotors (Shimano preferably) are the best choice if you want it all and ride aggressively. Even the best Road discs suffer various issues still. If you crash and damage your shifter/brake levers, be prepared to shell out money in a big way. Hydro road stuff is pretty reliable until its not, then get ready to shell out or buy tools and learn yourself. They cost considerably more than rim brakes just for regular maintenance and replacements. On the other hand, rim brakes are very simple to maintain and relatively affordable. If you're not a serious hard core rider, first learn how to best operate your bike safely and efficiently THEN, figure out what else is 'slowing' you down!! If you know what I mean. I see it over and over. So many riders believe the marketing lies and that you can BUY skills and fitness!

[@somewhereonearth3049]

@@rollinrat4850 you are my man!! Thanks i will take my first roadbike with rim brake. Easy maintenance is my first choice.

[@rollinrat4850]

Somewhere On Earth The modern dual pivot (such as Shimano) side pulls work great. The newer direct mount brakes are even better, but require a specific frame and fork with special mounts. If I was buying a custom full on road race frame, these would be my brakes. The main thing I don't like about side pulls is you're limited to ( Maybe) a 30c tire. For me and my dirty offroad habits (and my crap local paved roads) that's not big enough. All my bikes, even 'roadish' bikes, see significant dirt. I'm convinced large volume, high quality tires and lower pressures make me more efficient and COMFORTABLE during a 6-12 hour ride on rough roads. They offer better traction as well. Tekro does make some high clearance side pulls. If you want extra power or ride in rain a lot, you can try Koolstop salmon pads with side pulls. I love these pads! Back in the day I used ceramic coated rims and extra abrasive pads. These offer incredible braking and the sidewalls simply don't wear out. Nearly as strong as discs. Mine are more than 20 years old! I still have a couple that haven't gotten 'tacoed' ! Ceramic rims were expensive and now they're pretty rare, but I just found another squirreled away at my shop!!

[@somewhereonearth3049]

@@rollinrat4850 thanks for information sir. How old are you? Seem you have lots of experienced in bicycle world. I saw and reads all your comments on the other video in youtube too. Very good info, btw thanks again from Malaysia

[@VeloGrapher]

Loved this video in particular! Rim brakes works well for me as well and to hear someone else actually speak his mind when shops are pushing discs is not just refreshing but so awesome! 💪💪💪

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Thanks man, I just really wanted to give people confidence to go into a bike shop and feel they have a choice to choose, rather then being bullied into a bike that may not suit them. Cheers for the comment man.

[@VeloGrapher]

@@ChrisMillerCycling No dramas at all! I really love your videos of late. Keep it up :)

[@spaizemunkie4397]

Thanks for your honesty dude 😁 I'm not a disc convert either... Yet 👍🙏

[@dingodoggy66]

Lol you and durianrider keeping the clincher dream alive 🤘

[@DrVinylBcn]

Here in Spain people prefer clinch and rim brakes, another thing is if we want carbon fiber wheel or alloy..

[@Leon-vq7hv]

Great honest video!

[@MrGuysndolls]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience. I am a novice and looking to get a new bike. The shops are heavy on selling disc brakes and you actually helped me in my decision. I’m looking forward to more videos.

[@kevwells]

Agree, can see some benefits for sure but comes down to the ride/racing you do and what is important, it is all personal 👍

[@curtott3396]

Good video, just a honest review, and it makes perfect sense.

[@peterherrell3236]

Agreed. Horses for courses. I’ll stick with my hydraulic discs as it rains 300 days if they year here in Scotland.

[@dirtyfork1]

That is the idea. If it rains a lot discs is the thing for you. If not then is mostly unnecessary.

[@orielireland]

Forgot. You can only ride discs in the rain.

[@woden_the_wanderer]

I'm from Scotland too bud. But I just feel that rim brakes work for me, like you said horses for courses. I have an 606i aluminum bike with carbon forks as well as I ride for fitness and enjoyment rather then competing, so weight to me isn't that big a deal, I actually don't see a point in getting a super light bike if I'm riding to be fitter anyway and push my body. I just want to be able to cheaply repair my wee 10kg B'twin Triban 3 that I picked up for 300 bucks straight from decathlon as cheap as possible while keeping fit and Saving the environment

[@philippang07]

Good, honest vid. 👍🏼 Whatever rocks each of our bikes...... different strokes for different folks. Choose whatever we want, which makes us happiest when riding.

[@scj350]

Was all fired up to write a long response to this video but then I saw it...very good points Chris. I’m keeping my discs as it’s as you stated- depends on where you’re riding and what conditions. You just gained a subscriber!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Thanks mate, appreciate you watching the video before leaping to any comments. That’s said, I love your KZbin username.

[@adambolter4965]

You could lose a few grams leaving the massive oakleys at home

[@happydays8171]

A B Haha, 3:30 would look appropriate on a ski slope, but he rides with them.

[@rollinrat4850]

I dont think I saw his eyes at all. Just too cool I guess.

[@paulwilliams9535]

I was going to say that they look 💩

[@mrexpatjohnny]

I'd rock those! But I came from moto racing, so more visor feels natural.

[@MotoLopez1k]

A B So could disc brake users

[@fehlrock]

I love technology, but Disc brakes on road racing bike seems unnecessary

[@The-ii5jo]

I've realized that when people talk about disc brakes, they mean hydraulic. Cable disc brakes work really well for all around riding and are simplistic just like rim brakes. A hydraulic system on a road bike is overkill and adds unnecessary complications

[@robtankbuster5215]

@@The-ii5jo well said!

[@rollinrat4850]

Hydro Discs are really good for wet conditions and heavy loads, big riders etc. Rim brakes still work fine. Even the pro roadies still want them. But usually they just ride what their sponsors provide. The ironic part is any decent racer KNOWS you go faster by not touching the brakes! There are VERY FEW strong cable discs on the market and those only work well if they're set up perfect. Many cheap discs are less capable stoppers than decent rim brakes. Some are so weak you can pedal the bike while applying the brakes. Many certainly aren't strong enough to lock the wheel. Often these crappy brakes are specced to fit a price point just so a bike with discs can 'look' legit. Once riders learn to actually set up, maintain and use their equipment to its fullest potential, then and only then do upgrades actually make much sense. No bike or part instantly makes you more fit or more skilled! I'm a shop mechanic and a hardcore rider for decades. A quick inspection and I'll know if a bike's owner has a clue what they're doing on the bike.

[@rlsedition]

@@The-ii5jo BS. I've owned cable and hydraulic disc brakes on my mountain bikes and the hydraulics have much better modulation. You roadies are so resistant to change; where are the rim brakes on motorcycles? There aren't any.

[@The-ii5jo]

@@rlsedition of course it would be better to put hydraulic brakes on a mountain bike considering how they're used for going downhill really fast on bumpy terrain so that extra braking power helps. Motorcycles need them because they are heavy and travel at high speeds. Cable disc brakes are enough for riding on roads and your local trail where that extra braking power isn't necessary. Even for touring it makes more sense. A cable system is much easier to mantain and more reliable than a hydraulic system. I'm not a fan of rim brakes at all btw. I prefer to not wear out rims and have terrible braking when its wet out

[@smoore5540]

I have both rim and disc. Rims for nice days on my summer bike, the discs for the crap weather and off road paths etc. That’s my choice. Chris is spot on, buy what you need or have a use for and not what everyone else uses or tell you to use. Good vlog mate👍🏻😁🚴🏽🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@chiefrocker12]

Great points and I agree with you on majority of the points. If you have been riding for a while and witnessed the Disc-brake-gravel-thingi-take-over, then its a significant investment to start switching over from rim. I am in midst of building my first aero-disc and was prepared for all these surprises. (fer F%$% sakes, its never ending). I grew up in Sydney riding back in the late 80's and 90's, riding Centennial, King Street, Royal National, the gong, ....so would like to see you do a series on some of the classic Sydney rides. Good work !!

[@dafiltafish]

Thanks, I was considering buying discs on my first new road bike, and the only big counter I have seen from the biking community was that discs offer more tire clearance. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that I don't really need bigger tires and if I want to do gravel riding or mtb stuff, I have a frankenstein of a 90's 26'er in the garage, and even there it's got cantilevers which are perfectly fine. So, I think I'm going to stick to rim brakes for now on the new bike.

[@scottbrossmann2924]

The first time I rode on disc, was also the first ride I had with di2 ... I was like holy cow the brakes are the highlight of the package ! (Oh I don’t race, just ride solo around all my local hills in northern NSW(love to fang down some gravel if I comes across it) around 12000k a year ... ) plus I’m no lightweight at 86kg and run cameras front/back and take so many sparesand bottles you’d laugh at me but I love my cycling and wouldn’t buy a bike that wasn’t disc now ... just my own opinion ... keep up the great KZbin content buddy.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Cheers Scott. Sounds like your experience is the perfect horses for courses one, long fast descents ... bumpy roads ... perfect for disc. Enjoy the bike up there mate, great part of the world to ride.

[@scottbrossmann2924]

Chris Miller Cycling yeah and being a big Hubbard too = perfect ... oh and in the voting of getting a dog ... Yes (but they’ll tie ya down somewhat ... maybe foster to start - which may turn into a furever home ... id HIGHLY recommend greyhounds (too many reasons to list why... I’m well bias) keep Pedalling !

[@happydays8171]

Haha, we'd be laughing with you, mate.

[@dirtyfork1]

Totally agreed on everything you said! Great video!

[@steve-d0]

I have to agree, when i was working in the bike shop we would have people saying that they needed disc brakes because that was what other shops had told them to buy. It was not until we asked the simple question of was there an extra cost to the disc version that the reasons for the push started to become clear to the customers. A well dialled rim bike with quality pads can stop the majority or riders without issue. I have seen many times where people get over confident with discs and end up cooking the corner for the worst, luckily nothing too serious but its still riding beyond their abilities. On saying all that if you are talking daily commuter or gravel style bike i think discs are the way to go. Same with fatter tyres. Your set up should match where you're riding (eg you don't take a city cruiser to a mountain bike park).

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

100% agree Steve, great account of the situation.

[@mtnbikehead]

Fair enough. I have hydro disc on all my bikes. I am not against rim brakes for optimal conditions. I was 60lbs heavier when I bought the current disc brakes bike. Braking was significant better than my previous rim brakes bike.

[@waynosfotos]

Rockhead Gary Five years ago Rim carbon brakes where Meh, now with the new top end rim brake pads, you can throw yourself over the handlebars!!. I can on my rim brake bike. Yes hydro give less hand fatigue and don’t have that initial fade in the wet, so are good for these conditions, BUT are you really going to ride your 15k bike out in the rain all the time?? I don’t, I have a second rain bike. Rim brakes work just as well in dry conditions and don’t come with all the complications of making a disc brake bike work.

[@pmb0001]

I am with you for all the reasons stated for staying with rim brakes - seems that ‘Froomey agrees with you too!

[@portland675]

Froome only rides and races on disc bikes. He stated how wrong he was about his intitial disc complaints after they figured it out a bit better.

[@shhhdontshout]

@@portland675 or after sponsors made complaints to the managements?

[@portland675]

@@shhhdontshout he is the sponsor lol he owns the brand

[@DonnyDonnMendoza]

BTW, thanks for the awesome video C. Miller!!

[@zacharysmiles1308]

GREAT WORK ON THIS!!! I feel the same. I have Dura Ace mechanical and rim brakes,,,, and alloy wheels ... perfectly satisfied .

[@danpinho]

Best video about disk breaks. I’ll stay with rim b.

[@MotoLopez1k]

I agree 100%. You mention most is the reason why I do not choose to ride disc breakers. Another reason is I already own expensive rim brake wheel that are really hard to replace. I do not have the kind of money to purchase aero disc break wheels

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

That’s where my head is at as well Emilio

[@JengaBikes]

I’m convinced what wins people over is the easy pull, smoothness, the nice feel. we are are having comfort mods forced upon us at a heavy price

[@bengt_axle]

I think rim is also better for air travel. No bleeding of hydraulic fluid, no stuck calipers or bent rotors to deal with when reassembling the bike.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Hadn’t thought of that. Actually to be honest as soon as someone started talking about bleeding brakes I tended to zone out ☺️

[@happydays8171]

Is the brake fluid like that in a car, and will eat your paint?

[@chrisk8187]

I'm 72, somehow I managed to survive riding with rim brakes since I was in 7th grade. I worked in a good bike store during college, owned several high-end bikes (with "sew-ups" etc.), did a lot of serious day, weekend and week long tours. Survived all-day rains, hilly terrain and urban commuting etc. I did purchase a high-end custom recumbent that came with hydraulic Magura rim brakes. Never a problem and we did a lot of young child trailer pulling including up/down hills. However, I'm a "sucker" for new technology........

[@froggy0162]

Happy Days SRAM use DOT brake fluid like your car, Shimano use mineral oil (like baby oil).

[@froggy0162]

Chris Miller Cycling This sounds like another roadie/MTBer difference... Ee enjoy the upkeep sessions, some alone time in the man cave with a brew and an assortment of cool toys :) Fork servicing, brake bleeds suspension bearing replacements. All part of the fun, but really not needed much. I’ve flown domestically and internationally with my hydro disc roadie many times, zero drama. Just remember to put a wedge between the pads and put the wheels in the bag disc side in and youre fine. I’ve never had to rebleed the Shimano hydros. It’s all simple stuff. Embrace the opportunity to learn new things and of course it’s an excellent excuse to buy some new toys i mean tools ;)

[@mikejames172]

Well done Chris - I own three disc brake road bikes ( I wanted to be sure I was giving them a fair go) and....I totally agree - disc bikes just don’t feel as good as rim brake bikes and they sure as shit don’t climb anywhere as good - let’s hope the manufacturers listen and keep rim brake models !

[@playmoreguitar5393]

Grand Tour riders obviously disagree with you.. all but one team on Discs.. but hey KZbin knows best.

[@chefroA6]

@@playmoreguitar5393 That's a projection without much realistic anchoring. Ask Tony Martin or Chris Froome how "beneficial" those disc brakes were for them... "Grand Tour" riders are EMPLOYED by teams and those teams PROVIDE THE BIKES...which teams in turn might or might NOT PAY for the bikes because they ADVERTISE those particular bike brands they have a contractual relationship with. Most bike manufacturers do want to transition exclusively to disc brakes because they increase the PRICE POINT of the finished product...simple math. Also whatever manufacturer offers better contractual "perks" for the those "Grand Tour" teams, that one gets to advertise its bikes under those riders' behinds. For example, why did AG2R (a French) team switched from Merckx (Belgian) bikes to BMC (Swiss) starting this year? It's all about the Benjamins, not "Grand Tour riders" preferences...

[@christianarvelo3330]

I'm a heavy rider. My problem is going fast not stopping.

[@smitajky]

True enough unless you have some guy driving a 4WD with a bullbar that drives straight through the stop sign on your left and right into your immediate path. THEN stopping or swerving under brakes becomes somewhat more important than a few seconds on your "best time".

[@texrgb]

😂

[@beemrdon52]

@@smitajky Unless your wheels lock up, then its bye,bye.

[@TheAttyjace]

Great video. This helped me a lot. Thank you.

[@jeffhowell4891]

I'm riding between Utah and Atlanta GA. Dont even need disc in Utah. It nvr rains and I descend with guys all of the time using disc and I've not found that my rim brakes on descents hold me back in the least. I also train consistently on Fulcrum racing 3s, 1s and Zeros. Love Ultegra, but also have steel bike with full Chorus build and that is sweet too. Great video, agree completely.

[@JasCar1967]

Totally agree....I am almost finished building my new road bike with RIM brakes. For where I live I can't ride anywhere without going up hills so don't want the extra weight.

[@froggy0162]

Disc brakes are better for climbing - all things being equal, disc rims are lighter. It’s rotating mass you want to lose, weight at the hub is of no consequence.

[@Thiaspeed]

I just bought a new bike and it has disc brakes. I was pretty happy with the rim brakes on my previous bike but seeing that all the brands are pushing the disc technology so much and that some bikes are even only made in a disc version, I decided to go for the disc version of my new bike. It also was on sale and was a bit cheaper than the rim brake version. But to be honest, in fast descents, I'm quite happy to have disc brakes now because it feels more safe and I know I won't damage my carbon rims. And now that I got used to the way a disc brake bike looks, I kinda start to like it !

[@Ryedale-mj7vg]

That sounds like a pragmatic choice, although what does it tell you when the disc version of the same bike is cheaper? In fairness, with carbon rims, there is more of a case for hub brakes. But it's all a viscious circle of complication - ironic that the lighter carbon rims come with significantly heavier brakes!

[@OptimusSatanas]

@@Ryedale-mj7vg "although what does it tell you when the disc version of the same bike is cheaper?" it tells you absolutely nothing...What are you even trying to imply with that?

[@genova2006]

Great job on the video. Excellent case on priorities.

[@juliodefreitas157]

Awesome video and thanks for sharing your tips 👍

[@ariffau]

In my opinion, everyone is entitled to an opinion! It really depends on where you live and what type of riding you do. Most of the hubbards I know whom converted to disc kept on preaching how good it will be when they ride in the wet. Only problem being; THEY NEVER RIDE WHEN IT RAINS 😂 But to me, the biggest selling point for me is the comfort. Fatter, chunkier tyres to absorb the road buzz is amazing. If I had to choose aero, lightweight, or comfort, I'd definitely pick comfort! P/S : I just ride casually with lots of climbs. Never race and hate events

[@jeffreyquinn3820]

Then there are the seriously overweight casual riders who spend an extra two grand for a bike that's 400g lighter . . .

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Haha!! OPINIONS!! I’m pretty sure I’ll live to regret this video in about 2 years when the frame manufacturers have really spent some time and dollars on designing proper disc specific frames. I’m sure that technology will move pretty quickly and all those things like the slight weight disadvantage and overly stiff front ends will get sorted, but for now ... rim please.

[@waynosfotos]

Chris Miller Cycling I don’t think it is possible Chris, the design characteristics of moving the brake loading to the end of the fork creates significant problems, the forks need to be stronger, and there is the twisting action due to the one sided disc, this affects compliance in the front end. Willier have announced a asymmetrical front fork system to combat this, but then how do you get even compliance?? The other problem is the front wheel being cross spoked, with more spokes, it weakens the wheel and has a greater fan affect with 20 spokes or more + the front wheel is heavier making it less agile in feel. I do believe manufactures are struggling to get the bikes to feel the same, why the PROs have not really jumped on board.

[@ariffau]

@Todd Jordan that's the problem which Chris mentioned in the video. There are great disc brake bikes out there, the problem is the XR4 Disc Chris is riding is not one of them (SL6 that Alaphilippe rode) hence Chris is going back to rim.....(at least for now!)

[@julmeissonnier]

@Todd Jordan Alaphilippe rode disks because he had to (sponsors pay the bills), how do you know that the 1/2 Kg extra over 1000's of meter of climbing is not what lost him the tour. .. His teamate Mas asked to ride rim brakes and they would not let him, he is now ditching Quick step because of that...

[@markhallowell4059]

Just bought a bike with discs :) . But really only because the rest of the bike was what I wanted and it came with discs as the only option. My old bike has had the rim brake pads in there for 17000 km and I was just thinking of changing them, so my brake use is similar to yours. Having said that had some damp roads this morning and not hearing the road grit grinding on my rim brake tracks (although the disc squeal can be annoying, but that is another story) was satisfying. And the new bike with disc and di2 is only 100 grams heaver than the old one with mechanical everything, I'll take that. I try not to ride in rain, but passing showers are OK. I did swear at one point never to get discs, but time moves on and I suspect in a couple of years rim brake bikes will be rare in the shops.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Pretty much where my head is at as well Mark, I did like how easy the disc brake bike was to clean after getting caught in a shower, it didn’t seem to pick up as much road grit.

[@stanroberts229]

You bring up a important point. Get a bike that fits your needs. The latest and greatest may not be the best for you. I ride on aggregate,my bike shop pointed me to a endurance build, slightly wider tires. Oh I doubt I will ever race, but you have a lot of good information for me. Thank You.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Thanks Stan, appreciate you seeing this in the right light

[@larryblackmon2341]

I'm lucky to have a LBS that don't just unload bikes they invest in a life stye. They will work with you all day even several days if needed to get you what you want/need and more likely to use. I love your video because some do get stuck on fads. People need to ask what are you using it for. I did go with disks but I ride in all weather, all roads and do want to do a long bikepacking trip that could have gravel. I'm also aware all this has been accomplished in rim brakes but I personally like the looks of disks as well as the performance. Thank you for putting this out there. Well done

[@THEoldgreydude]

Good set of rim brakes with good SwisStop pads will do the job for me all day long Easy maintenance easy wheel removal Just all easy with rim

[@paulflory3532]

A friend who works as a rep in the bicycle industry said that some of the reasons companies are pushing disc brakes are: (1) sell more bikes: because disc brakes cannot be retrofitted onto rim brake frames, people with rim brake bikes must buy a completely new bicycle to get discs (2) perception of safety as a selling point: persuade newbies nervous about the safety of bicycles that they'll be "safer" on disc brakes (3) prevent roasting of rims by nervous, inexperienced riders dragging rim brakes on long downhills (he may have been talking about carbon rim issues here)

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

I certainly don’t disagree with point 2 and 3, anything that gets more people on bikes is a great thing.

[@waynosfotos]

They is only one reason why manufacturers developed disc brakes for road bikes, and that is carbon Clincher failures, due to the carbon going soft at 200C, and the 100psi blowing out the rim. It was a little to common for their liking, so along came disc. This is the main technical reason they changed. Now they have to get a return on their investment and sell them as the new shiny toys.

[@albertbatfinder5240]

I have a friend in the bike industry who set my son up with his first proper bike. It had discs and I was envious. (This was 10 years ago). I asked him about it. He said he was embarrassed about how the industry was pushing discs. He said they’re not much better for most things, and a bit worse for others. The bike he got us had discs, was at 45% trade discount, and ready to go. Easy decision. We didn’t look for discs, he didn’t push them...they were just there.

[@eolle43]

Excellent review it reinforces my like of disc for my lack of skills and excess of hills. As for the dog I have two and they are great fun and a ton of work. Recently, got a Cozmo robot for my daughter to play/learn on and she treats it like a pet. And it doesn't spoil the carpets.

[@cohoonatube]

Great video, balanced perspective, thanks! Like others have said, for me personally it's the stopping power the disks afford this bigger guy :) ... looking forward to rim brakes once again stopping in the same distance... I think I have 30 lbs to go, lol!

[@iberiksoderblom]

Primarily disc brakes are a bike-manufacturing thing, to rip more money from people. Yes they brake better, but rim brakes stil brakes very good, if maintained. And thats just it. Rim brakes AND disc brakes require maintenance. Most bike owners believe that disc are overly complicated (they are not) and leave the job for a bikeshop. Thats quite expensive !!! The same people didnt have the rim brakes serviced at a bikeshop, but preferred to ride with shitty rim brakes. I have no idea why people are that strange. Learn to service you bike. Its a very simple piece of machinery. Disc brakes also makes frames and forks more expensive. And they do weigh more and they do have a higher aero resistance !!! Pro bikers riding down mountains and amateurs that are insecure should opt for disc brakes. To the rest of us, rim brakes are perfectly fine, easy to service, quick to fix, are cheaper as a system, weighs less and has better aero.

[@philhouck3560]

Disc brakes stop better? Maybe but the thing to keep in mind is that a good rider is paying attention to the conditions of the road and if there is a need to stop or slow down, a good rider will have taken the appropriate action well before any advantage of a disc brake can be realized.

[@siriosstar4789]

" Primarily disc brakes are a bike manufacturing thing to rip more money from people " Agreed. Now add Gravel Bikes to the list of industry hype along with MTB specific shorts and see if it sparks the flames 🔥of bias. 😂 most people will verbally defend what they own due to identification with their stuff. Wait for it.

[@Methodical2]

Funny, those are the exact reasons I've stuck with rim brakes. Hopefully, the companies will continue to offer rim brakes, via the purchase of a frameset, for those of us who like to build our own bikes.

[@keithrussell6035]

Great video! Personal choice based on how you ride not what the industry says we should be having. Quote from a friend "It's not about better braking, it's about bigger tyres!" Plenty of 6.8kg disc bikes...that cost more than a car.

[@robbchastain3036]

I really enjoyed your take on this and I find, as an older rider, that I ride more cautiously and carefully these days, so I don't see the need to upgrade from rims to discs. But if I buy a bike with discs, I'll be fine with 'em and, actually, I have a runabout which I bought on clearance at Walmart a few months ago, a 26" mountain bike with V-brakes in back and a disc up front. And either brake gets the job done, no worries.

[@robtankbuster5215]

Well said, love rim brakes much better, lighter ,less fuss.

[@76booge]

I really hope they keep making rim brakes, rim bikes and all the brake pads. I've gone back to rim, love the simplicity. I have a bad feeling that they'll end up in the history books like rim brake mountain bikes.

[@jonathanspring7051]

Very interesting Chris. I'm on the verge of buying a new RB with disc brakes. Personally I'm a big fan of discs and you did mention it in your vid when you pointed to the beautiful blue sky - your weather is so different from here (Ireland). 90% of the time our weather is cat and so are the roads so really when it comes to personal safety the discs are a no-brainer for here. Now it'll be interesting to see how reliable they are in terms of staying aligned with the rotors etc.

[@annaricklisk8740]

Absolutely Chris! My feelings and thoughts exactly. Ever since disc brakes started coming out on road bikes, I've just been scratching my head and wondering why!? 😆

[@a.schneider3288]

I agree to 100% with you!

[@korsveien]

I switched to disc because I’m heavy and live in the Norwegian fjords with a lot of rain and mountains. This weather also eats rims for breakfast. If I lived in a sunny and flatter place I would still be on rim brakes.

[@milosvuckovic5041]

I am having the same issues in Belgrade, Serbia where there are big downslopes in the city. Also, I am overweight and the rain just adds more reasonsto choose the disc brakes.

[@PTAguy2010]

Well played sir.. well played!

[@Bikes-guitars]

I feel the same way Chris, I live in a hilly area of the Uk, I like climbing and don’t want to carry the weight of discs up a climb, and being a lighter rider I don’t have any problem stopping with rim brakes, good point about the Pantani Specialissima too, I have the new Oropa 99 Anniversary edition and no way would that bike ever get discs, also I wouldn’t buy it if it did 😊. I think you hit the nail on the head in another video, for most road riders discs are a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Another great video 👍

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Thanks mark. The oropa 99 👌🏼

[@sky51778]

I’m all about rim brakes for many of the reasons you mentioned in this video. I read a lot online that the industry is getting to a point where disc brakes will be the only option on all new bikes. Personally, I don’t like that idea. I’m perfectly fine with disc brakes existing and being an option for all riders. But I like having the choice of disc versus rim so that people can choose based on the type of riding they do.

[@OptimusSatanas]

In a world where profit is what matters, you cant expect manufacturers to keep makign the product if it doesnt sell. Unless people are willing to pay way more $$ to make it worth it, they wont keep makign them unless there is demand. Its less of an industry forcing it on you, and more of an industry not allowing itself to be forced to produce it for you.

[@normanmitchell9536]

Brakes just slow me down ...

[@elijahkwon422]

Braking is Overrated

[@rollinrat4850]

If you want to go fast and not get dropped you try not to touch ‘em!!

[@carlosgaspar8447]

@@rollinrat4850 that's pretty much the rule in crits.

[@rollinrat4850]

@@carlosgaspar8447 Track bikes don't have brakes at all. Brakes aren't allowed on my local track. I also ride a fixed gear 'cross bike that does have brakes but I'm usually able to control my speed pretty well with my legs. This is my winter bike and really bad conditions bike due to its simplicity and reliability. Fixed gear can help with tire traction in loose conditions too. I often ride it on rough mtb trails. I also commute on it most days. Ive had the same set of Koolstop salmon pads on there for 4 years now! The brakes are just there for long descents in the mountains when I'm tired or emergencies with idiot motorists.

[@rlsedition]

@@rollinrat4850 Or, if you want to outrun your competitors, you brake later and pass them.

[@josh33172]

Makes perfect sense for where you're at. I lived in Miami Florida USA and rim brakes worked fine. No long descents to speak of. Now I live in Belgium, and its a different ordeal altogether. So I went from a rim brake Cervelo S3 to a disc brake Bianchi for 2 reasons....the better braking. There are a lot of roads that T-up at the bottom of a hill so better braking, but also tire clearance. There are some seriously bad roads here especially if you want to hold your line closest to the edge...then the cobbles. Disc brakes allow for quite a bit more tire clearance, and I really feel a lot better with the bigger rubber and better braking.

[@DrStench13]

When I switched from rim to disc brakes, I dig the braking performance so much that I don't want to go back now.

[@alexgalitier1322]

Demande à nibali si sa freine pas le freinage sur jante 😂😅

[@paulflory3532]

Similar experience here. At one point (because I'm stupid), I had two 2017 SLR6 Treks: an Emonda with rim brakes and a Domane with discs. For a while I alternated between them for road training rides. As far as brakes went, I couldn't tell the difference: I had to look down to see which brakes I had. People talk about better modulation with discs, I didn't feel it. I'd take lighter weight any day: it helps you ALL the time. If I were using carbon rims and riding often in the rain, yes I would prefer discs. But I avoid riding in the rain and don't use carbon rims. Except for Lightweight's Meilensteins, light carbon wheels are roughly the same weight as light alloy ones. I don't feel I'm fast enough to merit deep section aero wheels, but deep section carbon wheels are probably lighter than deep section alloy ones, which might be a reason for going with disc brakes in that case. If I were doing gravel riding I'd probably opt for discs, especially if I wanted to use 32mm tires that would not fit into standard rim brakes. As you say, an individual choice depending what you are doing. Unfortunately a lot of people, including me, get suckered by the marketing hype and don't reach an informed decision.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Great comment Paul and very similar take away from the disc situation as myself. Now on to the more important subject of those Lightweight Meilensteins 😍😍😍😍

[@trroland1248]

Amen Brother! This hit all the basic common sense arguments against MTB brakes on road bikes. A solution looking for a problem. Wait! What’s that “Sssst, sssstt,” sound?

[@rollinrat4850]

The thing is mtb discs work better and are much more refined. Road discs by comparison are still suffering growing pains. They dont function or last as well. Hydro brake bleeding is much more complex, time consuming and costly than rim brake’ service. Parts cost more as well. Disc brake service is just as frequent, bleeds need to be done once a year on frequently used bikes if you want them to last and function proper. The big issue I see as a mechanic is many road riders frequently dont know how or are afraid to use their brakes to their utmost power. Even with caliper brakes I replace rear pads far more often than fronts. Thats poor braking technique. I dont see this as much with mountain bikers. Just like a car, front brakes do most of the work due to weight transfer to front under braking. So, if riders cant properly use the brakes they have, what is the point in spending more on discs? Road discs might be better for wet weather, heavy loads and extreme descents, but I can make caliper brakes work fine in dry conditions and acceptably in the wet. Most riders avoid wet weather unless they have no other choice.

[@ex0stasis72]

As a disc brake user myself, it makes total sense to me why you went back to rim brakes. I use my bike for commuting 100% of the time in Seattle, WA. So it rains here often. But I do feel your pain about the noises that it makes when it's not perfectly aligned.

[@arghjayem]

I’m the same. I lost my drivers license due to a health problem. I use my bike 100% of the time for travel, day or night wind or rain 365 days of the year. And I live in the U.K. so much like Seattle, it rains a lot. Disc brakes are unbeatable in wet weather.

[@OptimusSatanas]

They are super easy to align tho. I dont really get all the griping about disc brakes. Seems to me its just another counteraction where something becomes popular and then people reverse on that. Happens with everything now it seems.

[@waynosfotos]

Brakes are about stopping, Bicycle racing is about not braking, because you waste energy which is delivered from a low powered energy source, YOU. Even if you do need to brake, discs will only help for repeated braking (hand fatigue) or heavy braking (which can be argued is very small due to the limiting factor of lifting the back wheel). So as a bike upgrade, it is a huge expenditure for a very small gain, as you have to replace the whole bike. No other speed upgrade, or even groupset is that big an outlay, and none of your old components are cross compatible. There is also technical complications with disc bikes which I explain in my recent video, which are to long to list here. Long story short, I predict a number of longer term problems with disc bikes, even the manufacturers haven’t sorted it out fully yet with designs still being fine tuned for these new frames. Thanks for the honest feedback on disc, in Australia, not really needed. It doesn’t rain enough.

[@wallacedavidg]

Waynos Fotos - Did you see Julian Alaphilippe decende? Braking is a major part of descending. Alaphilippe was able to pass so many riders because he is a great bike handler with superior equipment. Discs allow you to brake later with more modulation. If they weren't better (discs) all your cars would still have drum brakes. The only bike race where braking is not a component is velodrome pursuit (see what I did there).

[@waynosfotos]

David Wallace Alaphilippe is a great descender, and the only way you would know is if you did the same person same descent multiple times with the same equipment, only changing the brakes (keeping controls as equal as possible) in the same conditions, i.e. same temperature, line etc. then averaging those results to minimise any variance. His descent may be all done by his skill, taking better lines etc. Maybe discs give less brake fade?? We don’t know, because the manufacturers or any independent tester has never down proper comparisons. Everyone just says their better???? And as I said in the other response, in one of, straight out braking physics say, although discs may have more power, the braking distance limiting factor is the bike rotating on the front wheel as you apply more force, i.e. lifting the back wheel and throwing you over the handlebars.

[@BrettFyfield]

Bring on the vloggy vlog Chris! I’m totally with you on being lead by how you ride, not what people say is the next best thing. Would love to see more of your urban environment,

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Will do Brett, might show you around where we normally ride in Sydney.

[@frogwater09]

If rim brakes survived TdF, it can survive my local-less-challenging road. Thus, #realmanuserimbrakes

[@kenmunozatmmrrailroad6853]

I completely agree with you. Perfectly happy with my Ultegra rim and would not tolerate these noise issues of disc I hear so much of.

[@fubiao9149]

Exactly! And those behind fork V-brakes are actually very aero, like propel 2015/2016, still my favorite

[@LazyGrayF0x]

How did we do it without disc for last 100+ years ?

[@rollinrat4850]

Great question! Why do some pro roadies still use rim brakes? They're lighter! You use brakes as little as possible to go faster too! Not much longer though. They need to ride what we can buy. Poor mechanics. Seems like us mechanics are always the ones who suffer from the 'latest and greatest' technology.

[@rollinrat4850]

jenomsedivam To be honest, all this new technology is job security for me. Maintaining and repairing this stuff doesn't come cheap. Nor do replacements. . Will I own it? Never. I'd much rather ride than wrench. I get enough of that every day. In my point of view, bicycles are supposed to be simple, reliable machines. I keep mine that way.

[@theocope6471]

GrayF0x the rim brakes on my 1964 Hercules work great on steel rims, admittedly I don’t ride in the rain; I ride for pleasure. Post script: I have disk brakes on my ebike.

[@darrellalitz3327]

I ask myself that same question about cell phones lmao how did we make it with out cell phones all them years lol

[@rollinrat4850]

Darrell Alitz Haha, Now you look at the terrorists 'protesting' and looting and all these little punks are running around with their phones recording! Quite laughable if it wasn't so sad!

[@JessicaSeverin]

late to the party, but thank you. I really want to stick to rim brakes and don't like the pressure of "disc is the future". I have three sets of rim brake wheels and small hands. I like the smaller hoods of rim brakes and don't want to change my eco-system.

[@threeqs2424]

Sound logic and experienced shared. Thank you.

[@michaeltillman886]

I totally agree with you on that. I don't want the industry deciding for me what I really want to ride, one way or the other.

[@WaltDesine]

To me, the advantages of Rim Brakes include: (1) Less spokes required up front (aerodynamics), (2) Disc brakes pull on one side of the fork more that the other and the braking force is applied much lower on the fork, so Rim Brake Forks can be lighter, slimmer, and more compliant!

[@shannontrainer5857]

You forgot wearing out your rims.

[@paulhaughney7511]

They are been pushed more here in Ireland but we have the weather for them plus we don't do much racing up long hills either. I have disc and wouldn't go back to rim now.

[@OllyKilo]

UK based all year round commuter. Used to commute on MTB and was so happy when discs came to drop bars. Use case scenario dictates the product needs. If I was mainly racing in dry conditions and the brakes were good enough to send me over the handlebars, no need for discs. But for me, I'm very happy to have them.

[@gregkane8635]

100% correct chris it's down to your own riding - if your in the wet alot discs are simply better but if your climbing - the extra weight is a penalty you dont want

[@ianfrost1419]

What ever you do Chris, don't get a Dog with disks! 🤣

[@daroskygeronimo2609]

i was thinking to go disc but i really hate when the bike makes noise so i think i will stay with rim brakes chris is right.

[@asiantrick24]

Darosky Geronimo I went back to rim also after 3 months on disc. Rubbing on disc is inevitable and that sound is annoying as fuck.

[@stuartdryer1352]

Good video. Good points. Here is another, even a pretty bad home mechanic can keep rim brakes working well. Sidney looks like paradise.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Hey Stuart, thanks for that. You are spot on about the home mechanic thing, that said I know a good few MTB guys who don’t know what we are complaining about. I suppose it’s just one of those things that will take some time for us to get our heads around. Riding in Sydney is pretty good, you just have to know where to go.

[@Makebelieve123]

I agree on everything you mentioned…Living in Cape Town so hardly any rain here either 👍

[@timdixo]

No question for you Chris,racing+25c tyres=rims all the way. For myself however,with the extra tyre clearance and reliable power in all conditions particularly when commuting,discs simply blow rims out of the water.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Hey man, yep sounds like they would be perfect for your situation Timbo