When is a Producer Entitled to a Publishing Split? (Producers & Points Pt. 3 of 3)

Welcome to part 3 of Disc Makers CEO Tony van Veen's video series on producer points. If you watched our last video, you now know when a producer is entitled to points on your recording. In today’s video we will be answering a related question: When may your producer be entitled to a songwriting credit and the resulting publishing royalty split?
The video quickly reviews the basics of music copyright, then discusses when a copyright split is earned, and how that split might be calculated.
Check it out - it only takes a few minutes.
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Catch up with Producer Points part 1: • Producer vs. Engineer ...
Catch up with Producer Points part 2: • Producer Points - What...
Catch up on our Copyrights & Royalties Series: • Music Rights and Royal...
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[@ChaosNetwork]

You sent a lot of producers into confusion and hysteria with this video Tony. In the Hip-Hop genre, many many many beatmakers all think they are entitled to publishing because they made the beat. I even believed it up until a week ago when my mentor from Warner told me otherwise. I gave away so much of my publishing to producers 😭😭 Thank you for confirming for me.

[@KurryKumar]

I don't think you're understanding what he is saying. If the producer made the beat, they are entitled to 50% of publishing because they made the melody you are rapping on. So you didn't give away any of your publishing. That 50% is what the producer gets for making the beat.

[@jaywhyman9983]

As the Beat maker Composed the Beat they are entitled to the 50 % on the Composition Splits with your PRO. I think theres a confusion here about the Producers Role who is responsible for Sound Recording process or Engineer who simply gets any Work or Material from both the Artist & Songwriters & records it to create the song into a WAV File so you can listen to the Final Cut that was Created by the Songwriters - Composers. The person creating the Beat are Songwriters. Most Producers are also Songwriters as well & not only Mixers or Sound Engineers as is the Case with my Co - Writer he is also the Producer however he gets paid by myself for the Sound recording he puts together along with the Mixing process to create a Final Master File - we then go 50/50 on the Sound-recording & 50/50 on the Publishing as he contributes to the Music & I the Lyrics.

[@jaywhyman9983]

The Publishing side of music refers to the Notes, Melodies, Chords, Rhythms, as well as the lyrics and any other piece of Original music. Not only Words & Melody in any Song. If my co writer lays down Chords or Rhythm in the song he s entitled to Copyright or Royalties - Its more than just Composing a Melody.

[@Musiccafe5890]

I love the statement "don't be a jerk" This is a helpful video that can be used as guide in negotiating the split of song royalties. I also totally agree with the comment by Bobby Borg to talk with the Producer prior to the session. that will avoid a lot of confusion and misunderstandings.

[@bobbyborg]

Great breakdown Tony. And if I might add, talk with the producer prior to the session about these issues so everyone is on the same page. All the best.

[@tonyvv]

Great point!

[@bobbyborg]

@@tonyvv Be well Tony. PS: I don't see my book (with your wonderful introduction in it) on the shelf behind you. LOL....If I don't talk to you, happy holidays my friend. All the best...

[@otakunationrecords]

Very important topic. Good Job Tony!

[@yahsyout5450]

this video was very informative, thank you!

[@shadowsearcy]

As simple as I have ever heard this explained! Basically, I just use "work for hire" meaning I pay the musicians a set fee for their labor on playing their musical instruments. sya $30 per hour. That's their split. Their understanding should be the same as the late RnR Hall of Famer Hal Blaine, one of few stand alone drummers in the RnR Hall of Fame - meaning he wasn't inducted as part of a band. Hal said, "Hey, if I play on this guy's song and it turns out to be a dog, I don't have to give the producer his money back."

[@GigaTodd]

Very well put. 💯👍

[@danielbellaire8960]

GREAT INFO!

[@chrisdunnettmusic]

Nailed it as always Tony! A matter of semantics but the actual saying in "Nashville" is ... " A word for a third" ;) But yeah, that's how it goes here and I agree, a producer should NOT get a writer or publisher share/credit unless they actually WROTE part of the lyrics or melody. Well done Sir :)

[@DangerousDevilOfficial]

Okay, I posted this question to you on video two of this series Tony. But I forgot to mention, not only did I pay retail for the beat I bought, but the beat maker also sold this beat to multiple other artists as it was a “non exclusive” beat. Now here is the rest of my question: I have a question Tony: do these “points” or scenarios still apply when you are paying retail for a beat upfront? Here is the example: You “buy” a beat. You then write all of the music. You then record your own record. And you handle basically everything else on your own. The beat producer then in their fine print says they want to be credited with 50% on royalties since they made the beat production. Personally, if I pay retail and buy a beat upfront, I don’t believe they should be entitled to a share of the back end. And especially not one that large! As you as the independent artist are the one shouldering all of the risk upfront. By paying retail or the beat. And handling all production on the actual recording of the final song, writing, lyrics, mastering, arranging, advertising, distribution, ect.. I bought a couple of beats not realizing this in the fine print. And to be fair, they don’t mention this, or show you the paperwork until after you have paid for the beats. And to be honest, I handle every other aspect of my music. So if they are gonna snake 50% on royalties plus full retail upfront, I will produce all of my own beats from here on out. And just use those songs as free giveaways to gather email addresses, ect. To me, there is still some slimy people leeching off others hard work in this industry. Even in this day and age, it hasn’t been weeded out yet. Can you please clarify if this is a standard scenario for a beat producer for independent artists? And if not, what would a relatively standard approach be with this scenario? 🤷‍♂️

[@petecolorado5387]

I can see that you are concerned about your royalties and you should. Don't be caught out again. Buy yourself a drum machine and creat your own beats. Better still you know the answers to all your concerns. Sort them out before you record with them. Be a professional at all times. This is buisness. SHOW BUISNESS.

[@DangerousDevilOfficial]

@@petecolorado5387 I do make a lot of my own beats. And have for over 20 years. Buying production from others is a new thing to me. I never did it in the past. And I have been making music since 1988. I understand most of the business very well. But even being in the business for over 30 years, you still can’t know everything. So that is why I asked Tony for his opinion on this one.

[@jaywhyman9983]

I think you may have different Copyright Laws in the US compared to Australia.

[@dannykirsch]

What if three people write a song then give the acappella vocals to a producer who not only produces it but writes the chords? So he wasn’t in the room at the time of writing but don’t his chords warrant publishing so perhaps a 25% equal between the four of them?

[@leondenengelsen1157]

How does one collect the net. Royalties when having producer points?

[@allenpierson3614]

Do I have to allow a lyricist to put words to my instrumental songs, if I don't agree with the words she wants to add?

[@zachariahsmith6937]

Very helpful sir/ I rap the gospel of Christ Jesus as well as poetry over beats… Do the same rules apply for poetry/spoken word ep/lps!? Thanks One word 1/3 🫡

[@MadaAtoms]

If a songwriter comes up w lyrics and melody of vocal and some chords then brings to producer and he records it and chooses instrumentation and beats and overall sound of music how does songwriting split and publishing work? When registering say with BMI do the producers get a % of either songwriting or publishing and if an artist wants to admin the record what pieces are needed to ensure they can get a sync cleared without having to go to said producer who may have a royalty?

[@LordFarquahbih]

I’m late but I’d say anywhere from 40% to 25%

[@rahhoney1638]

No. They do not get publishing. They will get sound recording royalties usually between (2-25%)

[@NateNittii]

The beat maker is a composer whoever records you is an engineer producer would be the Indy artist not the beat maker that selling the same beat to any and everybody not the person that jus records and blend ya vocals to the beat

[@jaywhyman9983]

Yes . Right On.

[@CitiboyzMusic]

If a Producer Composes Music to those Lyrics & Melody: He will OWN the Composition part of the SONG and is entitled to HIS own publishing.... am I Right.. or did you just didnt know?

[@jaywhyman9983]

Yes.. Right. The above video is wrong. Whoever writes the music owns the music & who ever writes the lyrics owns the lyrics on the Publishing. Most Producers are also the Beat-Makers so they are doing 2 Jobs. One of the Sound Engineer & one of the Composer . Also he is wrong about only Words & Melody in a Song. Most songs do not contain Melody at all so how do those Writers receive their Publishing cuts with their PRO? An Example would be a Rhythm Guitarist who doesn't play any Notes at all on a Recording - Or a Keyboardist who simply plays Chords.

[@yahsyout5450]

lets see how much royalties are generated from those "words and melodies" without the music with it lol

[@sooesoss6063]

Should you split ownership equaly if you are the producet, writer or co-writer of music, the studio owner recording engineer, aranger, mix engineer, art designer, pay for distribution and promotion... i guess you can say lable. Spending time and money. The artist do not spend any money - only lay down the rap and leaves.. should it still be equal split is that fair?

[@iancoulls]

Thanks Tony. "One word, one third"... How many leeches does it take to change a light bulb? ;-)

[@NURREDIN]

Points on the production,yes. Publishing rights NEVER!

[@rahhoney1638]

THANK YOU

[@Tony-kc5fi]

With regards to publishing splits Im kinda thinking this video isnt relevant in todays music making world. Thinks have moved on a little since a song/compostion was just a guitar/keyboard and a singer.

[@ColleenKitchen]

They always want to tweak the composition so they can get songwriting royalties too. When is the songwriter allowed to say Oh Hell No!

[@tonyvv]

You are the client, so you can always say no. But, if all you do is say no, why then do you have a producer? The value they bring is their experience and fresh perspective.

[@yamikokawalewale2325]

This is false, Producer Write Music composition... Without our melody they're no lyrics... False