Producer Points - What are They? and How are They Calculated? (Producers & Points Pt. 2 of 3)

You’ve heard the saying “the producer wants 3 points.” But what does that even mean?
If you want to know, check out this week’s 'Indie Music Minute,' where Disc Makers CEO Tony van Veen discusses:
-What are producer points?
-Who pays them?
-How are producers paid?
-How does this work for independent artists?
-How to negotiate your producer’s compensation.
A producer is not just an essential part of the creative process - the right producer can make or break an album. Before you engage with a producer, make sure you know how their compensation structure works.
Onward and forward.
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#musicproducer #musicbusiness #indiemusicminute #musicbiz #producer #producerpoints #musician #indie #independent #recordlabel #producers

[@rogerbourne4377]

A while ago a Nashville producer mentioned 'producer points' to me when we thought we'd hooked a big one. It fell through of course but now I know what he was talking about. Thanks Tony.

[@RVTHELIGHT]

I just started managing a 2x billboard producer so this was very helpful and now I know how to articulate and properly strategize how to structure the next deal for his beats. 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾

[@ZMadeThisOne]

More producers need to see this!

[@bigrobspreezy3897]

Thank you for explaining the details of this subject in a well-organized, easy to digest format. Very useful, man.

[@genelemons5654]

Thanks Tony, excellent presentation

[@petecolorado5387]

I wasn't aware of any of this. Thank you Tony for enlightening me. Please keep it all coming.

[@sixstringsolution]

Great information from a trusted source. Thanks Tony.

[@Adimarcelino_official]

Thank you! Gold information

[@willmcmillan1430]

Thank you for taking time to make these videos. They are very helpful.

[@stevengovorchin]

This is excellent information. Artists benefit from your vast experience in the business.

[@danielbellaire8960]

GREAT INFO!

[@SherryAnne]

Very helpful!

[@KawauMusic]

Thank you for this.

[@jmclane27]

This was great

[@khalil19888]

How do you collect the points on the master recording as a producer?

[@joelschwartzmusic]

For Indy artists without a label, how does the accounting work? For example, if a producer receives 5 points on a indie release, how do payouts happen?

[@khalil19888]

The backend sounds good until it’s time to collect

[@DangerousDevilOfficial]

I have a question Tony: do these “points” or scenarios still apply when you are paying retail for a beat upfront? Here is the example: You “buy” a beat. You then write all of the music. You then record your own record. And you handle basically everything else on your own. The beat producer then in their fine print says they want to be credited with 50% on royalties since they made the beat production. Personally, if I pay retail and buy a beat upfront, I don’t believe they should be entitled to a share of the back end. And especially not one that large! As you as the independent artist are the one shouldering all of the risk upfront. By paying retail or the beat. And handling all production on the actual recording of the final song, writing, lyrics, mastering, arranging, advertising, distribution, ect.. I bought a couple of beats not realizing this in the fine print. And to be fair, they don’t mention this, or show you the paperwork until after you have paid for the beats. And to be honest, I handle every other aspect of my music. So if they are gonna snake 50% on royalties plus full retail upfront, I will produce all of my own beats from here on out. And just use those songs as free giveaways to gather email addresses, ect. To me, there is still some slimy people leeching off others hard work in this industry. Even in this day and age, it hasn’t been weeded out yet. Can you please clarify if this is a standard scenario for a beat producer for independent artists? And if not, what would a relatively standard approach be with this scenario? 🤷‍♂️

[@SixthSavior]

Did you ever find an answer to this because I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[@ceasarrushes8197]

Very good question!! I actually own my own small indie record label and do EVERYTHING Myself except for distribution. I make beats also but don't consider myself a producer. Certain projects I like to have another sound other than my own so I reach out to Producers to get different sounds to create a project. I have my own studio so I record myself, I write myself, I mix myself and I master myself. I have producers asking for 50% writers credits when they didn't contribute not one part of this song. I have producers ask for 100% writers credits when they did not contribute not one word to my song. 🤦🏾‍♂️ The only thing the producer did was make a random beat and I went through the catalog and randomly chose it. They did not make the beat for me personally it was for anybody to buy. I don't deal with producers that ask for writers credits when they did not write anything. I NEVER had a single person in my life write a song for me before. You're absolutely right about not knowing what they ask for in a contract until you purchase the beat online. I don't mind being fair with a producer and allowing them to get the cut that they deserve but I will not be scammed into giving them MORE than what they deserve. I believe in fair business and I most definitely believe that producers need writers and writers need producers. Me personally, I don't feel like either one is more important than the other. I hope your question gets answered because I would like to hear the response. My advice to all of the writers...... DON'T GET ANY LEGAL ADVISE FROM A PRODUCER, THEY ARE NOT LAWYERS!! I have a lawyer that picks through these contracts all the time. I don't know why the music industry is still this way but you know money will make people say and do anything especially when it benefits only them.

[@tonyvv]

OK, two things: 1) Are you buying a beat or a BEAT? Back in the day, a beat was just the drumbeat (and maybe percussion). That certainly doesn't justify significant (if any) points. Nowadays, guys who produce the BEAT basically produce almost the whole music - drums, bassline, samples, the works. In such a case it's fair to pay points. BUT... 2) Anything is negotiable. If you bought the beat, didn't read the fine print, and now owe 50% royalties, shame on you for not reading the fine print. If you had actually read it beforehand you could have negotiated that down, or even gotten rid of it completely (maybe in exchange for a higher up front fee).

[@allthatkaz]

And could you clarify if these "points" are only applicable on the "master/sound recording"? Are they different from publishing/composition royalties? Great vid, btw!

[@tonyvv]

They are all negotiated, and can be on both the sound recording and the composition.

[@younganthony7084]

hey tony how can i articulate this 3 point term to a contract? i sell beats and would like to ad this term to the contract how should I phrase the sentence

[@gimitello]

Me too 🤔

[@zoned9541]

So are producer points the same as songwriters share and publishers share? or entirely different

[@tonyvv]

Different but same... they each eat out of the total royalty pool, thought the songwriters/publishers only eat from the mechanical royalties, while the producer eats from the sound recording usually.

[@snwdwg1]

so the guy that creates the music gets robbed in the end by the record label

[@TimmyDahitman]

No he gets advance and publishing

[@billmutschler6359]

Now I really know why a former name musician deleted my producer credit when reissued by a UK label, lol.

[@twistedspanner]

A fave band of mine who had a top 10 debut single and hit album said on the covers the band produced everything. Years later I found out this wasn't true. They were produced by a famous producer who didn't get a credit.. Well the album had another producer who also didn't get a credit. I sometimes wonder if he secretly did get ponts or did he just shrug it off?

[@SURINAM1957]

💋🧡🌏🧡👑

[@hassanpushe5819]

You make them rich and they give some stupid points 😂🤣😂

[@ColleenKitchen]

just another standard way to take money from artists