Discussing Ancient Board Games with Dr. Irving Finkel (International Tabletop Day)

[@DearestClaudio]

This guy really committed to the aesthetic identity of the name "Dr. Irving Finkel, Historian"

[@bruceberry5331]

Here is one solid truth: Nobody has ever seen Irving and Merlin in the same room. Love this guy.

[@carlosvega4735]

Can someone teach Mr. Finkel how to maintain a KZbin channel? I can't even get my head around all the stories this man has to share with the access to the information he has.

[@bertimusprime7900]

Carlos Vega check the British Museum channel on KZbin. He is in several videos there. I just found it, so I don't know how much, but probably not enough.

[@DigitalArchmage]

I nominate Brady Haran for this task. He's a dude in England who has at least half a dozen youtube channels. This dude has super interesting people talk about *whatever they want to*. So he's literally finding genius (like Finkel) and putting it on KZbin. He may have a channel you're interested in subscribing to. Want one where he opens up old treasure chests with a curator (look at 'Objectivity')? Want one where he visits math or physics profs and has them get excited (numberphile or periodic videos)? He may have more I haven't discovered yet. Also, Finkel did do a video on British Museum Channel where he played Tom Scott (another youtuber worth subscribing to!).

[@hangeles1]

Carlos Vega I could listen to this guy all day

[@ryanmoser3495]

Dr, good sir or madame or other.

[@WombatSlug]

The British Museum does have a KZbin channel. He's featured in at least one video there.

[@darthdenco]

saw his game against tom scott before, really like the concept.

[@JaxMerrick]

Drenegade13 me too. I loved watching those two play.

[@sorscha]

Drenegade13 I've watched it about eight times so far! Got desperate and drew a board on a sheet of paper and dug out some D4s to play with my husband :D

[@names_are_useless]

Wouldn't you need a D5, with the 5 acting as a 0? You can roll 0 to 4 from what I've read. Or you can use a D6, where 5 is 0 and 6 means you re-roll I suppose.

[@loutreverte]

Actualy, it would'nt work. The odds for each number to come out are not equal. So it would be either four coin tosses or a D16 with ponderated results as follow 1:0, 2-5:1, 6-11:2, 12-15:3, 16:4 (Sorry if my odds are off, been nearly a decade since I fiddled with statistics)

[@Ares4TW]

To elaborate on that, the values you get are 0-4, but the dice used are D4s which act more as D2s (coins), really, because you're rolling each of them for odd or even. There are 16 total outcomes with 4 coins, which leaves you with a 1/16 chance of rolling a 0, a 4/16 chance of rolling a 1, a 6/16 chance of rolling a 2, a 4/16 chance of rolling a 3 and a 1/16 chance of rolling a 4. Quite interesting when you realise you're most likely to roll a 2 while at the same time you're more likely to roll anything else.

[@Reece_Hart]

You guys have really outdone yourselves this time. Dr Finkel is by far one of the coolest guys I've ever seen you guys talk to.

[@kcallamajaji]

I'm not even 2 minutes in, and I'm already in LOVE with this gentleman's voice!

[@MildredCady]

kcallamajaji And his way of speaking!

[@jonahperelman]

He's a truly fascinating and charming guy. Watch his lecture at the Oriental Institute on the Ark, and read his book "The Ark Before Noah." You won't be disappointed. Very entertaining guy.

[@gherezjereh]

Dear lord, this guy is so unbelievably British! Wonderful man, very interesting job/subject/video!

[@neuroflare]

Dr. Finkel saying that King Tut [died young on purpose to become famous because it's a well known principle in show business] was my favorite part of this whole thing.

[@rosecase8321]

I teach a class called Ancient and Medieval Board Games as part of an afterschool program. Even with the existing rules my students love this game. I have to find a translation of these rules! I would love to have a reproduction of the Ur game board Dr. Irving Finkel showed us in the video. I loved this interview and have bookmarked it. Thank you Ivan.

[@AliAhmed-lr9uz]

مرحبا هنالك طريقتان للعبها

[@_mrcrypt]

This is fascinating! Feel free to do more of this. Well done G&S. Well done Ivan!

[@Pyrodactyl]

This is excellent! I'd love to see more videos with Dr. Finkel in the future!

[@TylerTried]

Honestly, this is my favourite thing y'all have put out so far.

[@jackiesheppard3016]

I can’t get enough of either of these men and their love of this game!

[@leroypaulsen4566]

This guy is AWESOME! LMAO and he hates Monopoly. He is a genius.

[@Sonluth]

I love that a human being like this exists. Thank you Dr. Irving Finkel for being.

[@dragatus]

Hating Monopoly has more to do with common sense than with genius.

[@3dpprofessor]

I 3D printed the game and I'm 3D printing another copy of this game right now. Love it.

[@999Giustina]

3D Printing Professor can I get one?

[@OG_Zlog]

I've actually designed one too.

[@princealarming85]

Holy moly, what an awesome history lesson! And even better, I actually have a copy of this game. I purchased it years and years ago at the gift shop of The Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum in San Jose CA. I was so young in fact when I bought it that I had no idea of the significance of it. Right now it's hiding in a cardboard box in my storage unit, and now I really want to start digging through all of them to fish it out.

[@forcecristal]

I will belive anything this guy say.... he just look like knows the truth of the universe.

[@andrewharmon7929]

I had the museum's flat version as a kid, back in the 70's. After it was gone, I painted my own version on a piece of cardboard, my buddies and I loved this game so much!

[@sympathderseefahrer420]

It's amazing to see and hear a living witness of these acient games.

[@premiumbackgroundmusic]

What level is this wizard?

[@guldenguenter5636]

PeterM over 9000

[@mr.awesomepants1308]

PeterM I want to like this comment but I don't want change it from 69 likes

[@zeromancer-x]

PeterM Judging by the size of the library behind him, he's clearly in the epic level tier.

[@premiumbackgroundmusic]

Probably has lots of legendary items then...

[@TheNinseNanse]

PeterM I'd say the oldest known board game manual is a legendary item for sure.

[@epicureanbard]

I'm so glad Ivan Van Norman got to talk to this guy. Dr. Finkel is one of my favorite people in the world right now. I just finished my design for the Royal Game of Ur that I'm going to be mocking up and testing at home.

[@yourmajestyswill]

Whoa. I had to stop and watch this.... This man is amazing.

[@Cahnisama]

Dr.Finkel looks like a high level wizard.

[@gabehilton7948]

Very very cool and different kind of video, thanks Geek & Sundry!

[@Wh33lis]

This is pretty fascinating!

[@peterthooft3823]

over 9000

[@steinarbergstl5799]

I could listen to this man talk about stuff like this for hours.

[@notmyeyeballgames7798]

I made my own version of this game and I love playing it.

[@ronhasselblad3298]

Really enjoyed this video. I loved all the information. Games are so fascinating as a social tool. I am actually working on hand making a wooden game of Senet. Might post some pics when i finish.

[@missminxtress]

Absolutely bring out the board game as so many would love to play it.

[@Snaveltje12]

missminxtress There is an app in the playstore which has almost the exact same rules as the simple version of the game as described by the tablet. Only the path is a tiny bit different

[@missminxtress]

Sweeet! Thanks :-)

[@missminxtress]

What's it called?!

[@missminxtress]

There's a book with this game & 4 other old ones in the British Library Shop :-)

[@SDTCG]

Loved this video and would love to see more informative videos like it.

[@mlemnome]

This was a great interview.

[@YoungFallFailure]

I would absolutely buy it a copy of the game. It's already a family tradition in my house to play Senet and have always been intrigued by the game Ur. Senet is one of reasons why I love board games today. Loved the video & thoroughly enjoyed listening to Dr. Finkle. :D

[@nconroy91]

Love this video would love to see more. Going to show in my class.

[@YouBazinga]

The Royal game of Ur is great. Had lots of fun playing this ancient board game with my kids. We even made dice from sticks, to give it that ancient feel.

[@-Gax-]

You can tell this guy's a genius. He's eccentric as hell, and I love it!

[@Vadios_Davoid]

Just wonderful. Really looooove this conversation. 😀

[@andrewnielsen3178]

Dr Finkle is definitely one of the national treasures of the UK.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Loads of dice rolling? PUT IT ON TABLE TOP AND HAVE THIS BRILLIANT MAN CRUSH WIL WHEATON!

[@Irina35mm]

yes that would be way cool to have it on kickstarter and then invite this guy to play it on Tabletop omg!!! (&yes I got the 'poor Wil' refference haha)

[@grindstone4910]

Mr. Finkel VS WIL MUST BE A THING

[@ChristophZak]

YES!

[@anthonygage7682]

Irina V

[@pirateking56128]

It's only a 2 player game.

[@gevmage]

Yes. I would absolutely buy this. Someone should create a kickstarter.

[@00zim00]

Looks like they have :P www.kickstarter.com/projects/2004536140/the-royal-game-of-ur Edit: Actually is unclear if Dr. Finkel has any hand it in or if its just his video?

[@JBLewis]

The detail in the KS is a bit thin. I'd like to see more photos of prototypes, rather than CAD renderings. I don't think I'm going to back that, though I see it's getting a lot of traffic.

[@bretscofield]

This looks shady, and I'd wait for something that is official.

[@Gamesquad8889]

The British Museum had them for sale but ran out and wanted to know if people were interested I would not trust a random kick starter. It is at the end of his game with Scott. Tom Scott vs Irving Finkel you will find it on youtube.

[@EadricRicmund]

Yayyy!!! He is featured on G & S!! He gives awesome lectures/speeches. He have an awesome sense of humor!

[@ibeenthere]

This was very very, very interesting! More like this please! :)

[@FriendlyNeighborhoodDM]

Dr. Irving Finkel is amazing! Watched him play Ur with Tom Scott (kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYvWnJ2CppVnZqs) in celebration of International Tabletop Day and he is just delightful to watch.

[@bellportbattlebunker4682]

Awesome history. When I was dating my wife we played backgammon all the time. I had no idea it had such historic roots. Thanks for sharing.

[@yourway2short]

I can only hope to have such fantastic vernacular.

[@benadrylthundercrotch7144]

I could listen to this man talk about his bowel movements and have a great time

[@katherinenoggle6407]

Just fyi, there IS a version of this game already out there, called "UR- Royal Game of Sumer" . It was put out in 1977 by the British Museum and the game company Selchow and Righter. I'm guessing Dr. Finkel may have had a hand in it. It's a standard flat game-board size with a gorgeous photographic reproduction of the original board down the center and a few rules regarding the dice throws on one side. The dice are also unique. They're standard 6 sided wooden cubes, but in order to mimic the odds of the original 4 sided triangle die, they have dots on only a few sides. This is why you need the instructions on the board- the number of dots determine whether you move one, two, three spaces, or none at all and you skip your turn. The general object of the game is to get all seven of your pieces out of the "tomb" and off the board. You start on your side, race down the shared middle of the board, swing back round your side and wait till you get the right roll to get off the board. While you're racing down the center, you have the ability to land on an opponent and throw that piece off the board to start all over again. Of course, you're vulnerable as well! The spaces/decorative tiles on the board mean various things also- landing a piece on a rosette means you get another turn, landing on the eyes means your opponent gets to move another piece onto the board IF THEY NOTICE IN TIME, before their next turn is over. I think there's only one tile that is neutral. We bought this game back in the '70s, and still play it today. It's available on eBay, though the prices fluctuate wildly- I've seen it go from $15 to $50. The rules are easy enough for a 6 year old to learn, but strategy is a huge component - my 8 year old niece was known for her ruthlessness (and her utter lack of shame in cheating)! It's really lots of fun to play.

[@dougniergarth236]

I picked up this game back in the early 80's when I was stationed in Virginia. My buddies and I wore the spots off a set of dice, we played it so much. We couldn't make heads or tails out of the rules that came with the game so we used what we DID understand and filled in the rest. I ended up making and firing a set of ceramic die to replace the old ones.

[@StanleyBlonk]

I actually have this boardgame here and apart from it a small book with rules, written by the genius that we're just watching! Great video!

[@SpiralMagic]

Yes, we would ABSOLUTELY buy that.

[@clitcommander6946]

This video is awesome and I would definitely pick this game up if I had access

[@sawahtb]

You CAN buy it on the British Museum website.

[@Romoredux]

Ordered my Game Board today off of Amazon!

[@andyway2101]

both their voces are amazing

[@iusedtobegods]

I got the Royal Game of Ur as a birthday present and travel with it everywhere! I play the game alllllllllllllll of the time based on the rules Dr. Finkel put forth in another video

[@B9scrambler]

This is excellent (not done yet!). Thanks :)

[@brightdarkness420]

B9Scrambler ty for not writing "first"

[@B9scrambler]

hahaha! Thought never crossed my mind.

[@PrivateerXTR]

Seriously awesome. Everyone retweet/post/etc this video!

[@JBLewis]

I said it before! I'd buy a copy of this game!!!

[@wolftail1113]

I like that professor guy we would have awesome conversations

[@frankharr9466]

I've seen several videos with him and he is always delightful. I hope he continues. Also, yes, but not only should it be cheaper, it needs brighter colors. Not garrish, mind you. There's no reason to go overboard. Just brighter. Maybe a little simpler decaration, but deffinately brighter.

[@mamacrow2759]

The game is actually super fun. You can also add more strategy to it really easily, making it from 60-40 to 50-50 or ever less. Let each player have a specific amount of "special throws". For instance, each player once per game can choose to instead of throwing the dice, pick a number from 0-4 to use. This adds a lot more depth, when should you use your special throw? What number should you use? Etc.

[@HydraLord]

I would take this man to prom, to meet my parents, AND to my high school reunion.

[@walteringle2258]

Some of what he (Dr. Finkel) describes reminds me of Rose Estes's The Name of the Game (Greyhawk Adventures, Vol. 6), where the protagonist describes a game, and a MAJOR plot point, that predated Magic the Gathering, but the particulars were VERY similar to MtG.

[@EggShen905]

Not sure how it would be possible, but please find a way to have Dr. Finkel on more often! This channel could use a touch of class (no offense, regular cast; I love RPG-casts and Tabletop as much as the next guy or gal), and this fellow is a great step in that direction.

[@lifeofandrewlynn9448]

I have a copy from them. It is a lot of fun. Give it a shot!

[@John-mf6ky]

Wow, I don't even know how I got here but this is fascinating. I haven't played a board game in years. I suddenly have the urge to buy a backgammon set though now haha. I'm going to have to look into ur as well now!

[@littledragongirl10]

I love the royal game or ur.. its super fun to play

[@amdreallyfast]

A couple weeks ago I saw him play this game against Tom Scott. I was hoping G&S would find this curator too.

[@draco010397]

The Mesoamérica game, is call patolli is quite similar to pachisi in form and the way is played. Thanks to the conquistador was almost lost forever but is a lot of information in the net so everyone can make their own copy

[@AxeGaijin]

For a moment I thought James Randi had uploaded another video at last, then I saw it was on Geek & Sundry and I had to do a double take :)

[@gamingxmachina6718]

Love this.

[@Paula-133]

Dr. Finkel is amazing!

[@YoshMaster]

I wanna try that game out!!!!!

[@ShakalDraconis]

I would love to buy and play a copy of this game.

[@mikeym9146]

I would totally buy this game

[@FoxDren]

yay more dr finkel and UR

[@BlindManBert]

At 0:28, the dates given for the discovery of the rules for The Royal Game of Ur aren’t correct. Archaeologist Sir Leonard Wooley discovered the first Ur board at some point between 1922 and 1934 in modern-day Iraq (what was then ancient Mesopotamia). Since then, other Ur boards have been discovered around the Middle East, with the oldest dating from about 2,600 BCE. But no rules were discovered at these ancient digs.[1] The clay cuneiform tablet with the rules of Ur was found by Irving Finkel in the massive cuneiform collection of the British Museum. That tablet dates back to 177 BCE [quoting Dr. Finkel in this video] and can be thought of as describing a “late era” variation of Ur with all sorts of additional rules and pieces added to the game; it is still not known what the original rules played in Mesopotamia at about 2,600 BCE looked like, since by then two and a half millennia of variations and rule changes may have occurred, and Finkel also points out that the tablet described a variation of Ur with basic rules, like the exact path taken or the number of die used, not described on the tablet.[2] I suspect that the simplified rules that Finkel teaches Tom Scott in their epic intro game may resemble the early-era game quite closely; the set published by the British Museum describes the more complex late-era variation. My only criticism of Finkel’s simplified rules is that the path taken doesn’t look quite right. I prefer to play where the final six squares for either player form a loop towards the exit. Finkel’s path introduces a jump of six squares between the central and final florets. If both players take a loop around the final six squares visiting both final florets, then all of the florets are spaced by four squares, which I think is important. Also, with that final loop, the final six squares the opponents pieces are moving in opposite directions which introduces a level of strategy not present elsewhere on the board. Finally, I’ll say that Ur can be played face-to-face, or vs. computer (though the computer players are quite weak opponents; my computer opponent has yet to come close to winning a game). But also, Ur is one of the games supported in Tabletop Simulator, which is game emulation software that can connect Ur players all around the world![3] I agree with Dr. Finkel that it’s a shame that The Royal Game of Ur is such a relatively obscure game nowadays; it truly is a wonderful game. ______________________________________________ SOURCES: [1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Game_of_Ur [2] kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYvWnJ2CppVnZqs [3] store.steampowered.com/app/286160/Tabletop_Simulator/

[@aelegriniii9448]

Thank you for this video! At last, we have found Pr Armitage :) Dr Finkel, you are amazing!

[@freakincampers]

I'd pledge into kickstarter if they did one of Ur.

[@freakincampers]

Thank you, I went ahead and pledged. Early bird too.

[@00zim00]

+freakincampers hard to tell if it's a official kick-starter by the same guy. seems kinda shady atm :/ . maybe ask the owner if it's endorsed

[@KSweeney36]

00zim00 Could you, please update when they reply.

[@00zim00]

+KSweeney36 tbh I'll probably not re-check it and forget lol. I didn't back it so I'll have no reason to ask.

[@KSweeney36]

00zim00 fair enough. I'm not backing yet, but added to 48hrs reminder. I'm sure someone will ask, they will get and email and hopefully goes up as a Q&A

[@Ratkwad]

This game is amazing actually.

[@geoffreywinn4031]

Awesome!

[@suzynolanart]

I would love to have this game!

[@katz86]

I wanna play this game!!

[@liquidmaster2108]

kickstart the game, I'll join, please put the link on your next video

[@gvrbeer7441]

Do I hear a new edition of tabletop coming up with several historic games?

[@gvrbeer7441]

with Dr. Finkel as guest naturally

[@Bobvanksy]

Thought it was James Randy there for a moment.

[@HarryBuddhaPalm]

me too

[@K.F-R]

BobvanKay Hah. So did I until I found my glasses.

[@markillie]

i saw irvings book disappear from the bookshelf over his left shoulder at 14:10, what do i win?

[@JedBrad55]

Would love a game of RGoU with him.

[@slagondrayer447]

Damn kids these days and their Cuneiform tablets...

[@vanlawprime6694]

I have already ordered Ur on ebay. Unfortunately, it only comes with the basic rules. It would be amazing it see an advanced rules game playthrough.

[@franciscolomeli8931]

What's Dr Irving's wizard domain called?

[@Otrebor2099]

Ludo

[@revertever]

Hands down my favourite gamer of all time.

[@MarkusFlorence]

well, finally I travelled to UK and purchased the "cheap" version at the British Museum

[@Sk8rToon]

Field trip to England!

[@OutOfPrintGM]

outstanding

[@richbuilds_com]

When I grow up, I want to be Dr. Irving Finkel

[@mimonita5851]

Me encanta este tipo

[@PinguinCrazy]

This guy is the perfect embodiment of an RPG character of wisdom!

[@DrewSkiGoneGaming]

Amazing

[@OstblockLatina]

This game is basically about the ability to manage what fate throws at you.

[@irbricksceo]

I certainly wish an Ur set was possible to obtain, I've pondered making my own set so that I could play. (My brother and I once played an impromptu game at a yugioh tournament between rounds, using face up cards as the rosettes, face downs as other spaces, cards from our decks as our markers, and a d4 as a substitue for the 4 dice (not perfect but it worked).

[@tirumalavan09]

Dr. Irving Finkel's alias is 'Wizard of Ur'. Epic beard!