Discussing Ancient Board Games with Dr. Irving Finkel (International Tabletop Day)

Check out Tom Scott vs Irving Finkel - The Royal Game of Ur:
• Tom Scott vs Irving Fi...
As part of our International Tabletop Day celebration, Ivan Van Norman had the opportunity to speak to Dr. Irving Finkel. Irving Finkel is the Assistant Curator of Ancient Mesopotamian script at the British Museum in London, England. The two discussed many things, one of them being the oldest-known rulebook in ancient history.
This rulebook is a tablet that dates back four millennia to the city of Ur, and describes the oldest board game in the world. Watch Ivan’s discussion with Irving now!
This discussion aired during the Geek & Sundry International Tabletop Day 2017 stream to support Extra Life.
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[@DearestClaudio]

This guy really committed to the aesthetic identity of the name "Dr. Irving Finkel, Historian"

[@bruceberry5331]

Here is one solid truth: Nobody has ever seen Irving and Merlin in the same room. Love this guy.

[@carlosvega4735]

Can someone teach Mr. Finkel how to maintain a KZbin channel? I can't even get my head around all the stories this man has to share with the access to the information he has.

[@bertimusprime7900]

Carlos Vega check the British Museum channel on KZbin. He is in several videos there. I just found it, so I don't know how much, but probably not enough.

[@DigitalArchmage]

I nominate Brady Haran for this task. He's a dude in England who has at least half a dozen youtube channels. This dude has super interesting people talk about *whatever they want to*. So he's literally finding genius (like Finkel) and putting it on KZbin. He may have a channel you're interested in subscribing to. Want one where he opens up old treasure chests with a curator (look at 'Objectivity')? Want one where he visits math or physics profs and has them get excited (numberphile or periodic videos)? He may have more I haven't discovered yet. Also, Finkel did do a video on British Museum Channel where he played Tom Scott (another youtuber worth subscribing to!).

[@hangeles1]

Carlos Vega I could listen to this guy all day

[@ryanmoser3495]

Dr, good sir or madame or other.

[@WombatSlug]

The British Museum does have a KZbin channel. He's featured in at least one video there.

[@darthdenco]

saw his game against tom scott before, really like the concept.

[@JaxMerrick]

Drenegade13 me too. I loved watching those two play.

[@sorscha]

Drenegade13 I've watched it about eight times so far! Got desperate and drew a board on a sheet of paper and dug out some D4s to play with my husband :D

[@names_are_useless]

Wouldn't you need a D5, with the 5 acting as a 0? You can roll 0 to 4 from what I've read. Or you can use a D6, where 5 is 0 and 6 means you re-roll I suppose.

[@loutreverte]

Actualy, it would'nt work. The odds for each number to come out are not equal. So it would be either four coin tosses or a D16 with ponderated results as follow 1:0, 2-5:1, 6-11:2, 12-15:3, 16:4 (Sorry if my odds are off, been nearly a decade since I fiddled with statistics)

[@Ares4TW]

To elaborate on that, the values you get are 0-4, but the dice used are D4s which act more as D2s (coins), really, because you're rolling each of them for odd or even. There are 16 total outcomes with 4 coins, which leaves you with a 1/16 chance of rolling a 0, a 4/16 chance of rolling a 1, a 6/16 chance of rolling a 2, a 4/16 chance of rolling a 3 and a 1/16 chance of rolling a 4. Quite interesting when you realise you're most likely to roll a 2 while at the same time you're more likely to roll anything else.

[@neuroflare]

Dr. Finkel saying that King Tut [died young on purpose to become famous because it's a well known principle in show business] was my favorite part of this whole thing.

[@Reece_Hart]

You guys have really outdone yourselves this time. Dr Finkel is by far one of the coolest guys I've ever seen you guys talk to.

[@kcallamajaji]

I'm not even 2 minutes in, and I'm already in LOVE with this gentleman's voice!

[@MildredCady]

kcallamajaji And his way of speaking!

[@jonahperelman]

He's a truly fascinating and charming guy. Watch his lecture at the Oriental Institute on the Ark, and read his book "The Ark Before Noah." You won't be disappointed. Very entertaining guy.

[@forcecristal]

I will belive anything this guy say.... he just look like knows the truth of the universe.

[@gherezjereh]

Dear lord, this guy is so unbelievably British! Wonderful man, very interesting job/subject/video!

[@leroypaulsen4566]

This guy is AWESOME! LMAO and he hates Monopoly. He is a genius.

[@Sonluth]

I love that a human being like this exists. Thank you Dr. Irving Finkel for being.

[@dragatus]

Hating Monopoly has more to do with common sense than with genius.

[@Cahnisama]

Dr.Finkel looks like a high level wizard.

[@premiumbackgroundmusic]

What level is this wizard?

[@guldenguenter5636]

PeterM over 9000

[@mr.awesomepants1308]

PeterM I want to like this comment but I don't want change it from 69 likes

[@zeromancer-x]

PeterM Judging by the size of the library behind him, he's clearly in the epic level tier.

[@premiumbackgroundmusic]

Probably has lots of legendary items then...

[@TheNinseNanse]

PeterM I'd say the oldest known board game manual is a legendary item for sure.

[@rosecase8321]

I teach a class called Ancient and Medieval Board Games as part of an afterschool program. Even with the existing rules my students love this game. I have to find a translation of these rules! I would love to have a reproduction of the Ur game board Dr. Irving Finkel showed us in the video. I loved this interview and have bookmarked it. Thank you Ivan.

[@AliAhmed-lr9uz]

مرحبا هنالك طريقتان للعبها

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Loads of dice rolling? PUT IT ON TABLE TOP AND HAVE THIS BRILLIANT MAN CRUSH WIL WHEATON!

[@VampireHeart518]

yes that would be way cool to have it on kickstarter and then invite this guy to play it on Tabletop omg!!! (&yes I got the 'poor Wil' refference haha)

[@grindstone4910]

Mr. Finkel VS WIL MUST BE A THING

[@ChristophZak]

YES!

[@anthonygage7682]

Irina V

[@pirateking56128]

It's only a 2 player game.

[@3dpprofessor]

I 3D printed the game and I'm 3D printing another copy of this game right now. Love it.

[@999Giustina]

3D Printing Professor can I get one?

[@OG_Zlog]

I've actually designed one too.

[@_mrcrypt]

This is fascinating! Feel free to do more of this. Well done G&S. Well done Ivan!

[@TylerTried]

Honestly, this is my favourite thing y'all have put out so far.

[@Pyrodactyl]

This is excellent! I'd love to see more videos with Dr. Finkel in the future!

[@notmyeyeballgames7798]

I made my own version of this game and I love playing it.

[@jackiesheppard3016]

I can’t get enough of either of these men and their love of this game!

[@andrewharmon7929]

I had the museum's flat version as a kid, back in the 70's. After it was gone, I painted my own version on a piece of cardboard, my buddies and I loved this game so much!

[@gabehilton7948]

Very very cool and different kind of video, thanks Geek & Sundry!

[@princealarming85]

Holy moly, what an awesome history lesson! And even better, I actually have a copy of this game. I purchased it years and years ago at the gift shop of The Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum in San Jose CA. I was so young in fact when I bought it that I had no idea of the significance of it. Right now it's hiding in a cardboard box in my storage unit, and now I really want to start digging through all of them to fish it out.

[@SDTCG]

Loved this video and would love to see more informative videos like it.

[@nconroy91]

Love this video would love to see more. Going to show in my class.

[@Healitall]

Just wonderful. Really looooove this conversation. 😀

[@mlemnome]

This was a great interview.

[@sympathderseefahrer420]

It's amazing to see and hear a living witness of these acient games.

[@Wh33lis]

This is pretty fascinating!

[@peterthooft3823]

over 9000

[@HydraLord]

I would take this man to prom, to meet my parents, AND to my high school reunion.

[@EggShen905]

Not sure how it would be possible, but please find a way to have Dr. Finkel on more often! This channel could use a touch of class (no offense, regular cast; I love RPG-casts and Tabletop as much as the next guy or gal), and this fellow is a great step in that direction.

[@YouBazinga]

The Royal game of Ur is great. Had lots of fun playing this ancient board game with my kids. We even made dice from sticks, to give it that ancient feel.

[@yourmajestyswill]

Whoa. I had to stop and watch this.... This man is amazing.

[@andrewnielsen3178]

Dr Finkle is definitely one of the national treasures of the UK.

[@ronhasselblad3298]

Really enjoyed this video. I loved all the information. Games are so fascinating as a social tool. I am actually working on hand making a wooden game of Senet. Might post some pics when i finish.

[@steinarbergstl5799]

I could listen to this man talk about stuff like this for hours.

[@epicureanbard]

I'm so glad Ivan Van Norman got to talk to this guy. Dr. Finkel is one of my favorite people in the world right now. I just finished my design for the Royal Game of Ur that I'm going to be mocking up and testing at home.

[@ibeenthere]

This was very very, very interesting! More like this please! :)

[@YoungFallFailure]

I would absolutely buy it a copy of the game. It's already a family tradition in my house to play Senet and have always been intrigued by the game Ur. Senet is one of reasons why I love board games today. Loved the video & thoroughly enjoyed listening to Dr. Finkle. :D

[@yourway2short]

I can only hope to have such fantastic vernacular.

[@JBLewis]

I said it before! I'd buy a copy of this game!!!

[@gevmage]

Yes. I would absolutely buy this. Someone should create a kickstarter.

[@00zim00]

Looks like they have :P www.kickstarter.com/projects/2004536140/the-royal-game-of-ur Edit: Actually is unclear if Dr. Finkel has any hand it in or if its just his video?

[@JBLewis]

The detail in the KS is a bit thin. I'd like to see more photos of prototypes, rather than CAD renderings. I don't think I'm going to back that, though I see it's getting a lot of traffic.

[@bretscofield]

This looks shady, and I'd wait for something that is official.

[@Gamesquad8889]

The British Museum had them for sale but ran out and wanted to know if people were interested I would not trust a random kick starter. It is at the end of his game with Scott. Tom Scott vs Irving Finkel you will find it on youtube.

[@-Gax-]

You can tell this guy's a genius. He's eccentric as hell, and I love it!

[@missminxtress]

Absolutely bring out the board game as so many would love to play it.

[@Snaveltje12]

missminxtress There is an app in the playstore which has almost the exact same rules as the simple version of the game as described by the tablet. Only the path is a tiny bit different

[@missminxtress]

Sweeet! Thanks :-)

[@missminxtress]

What's it called?!

[@missminxtress]

There's a book with this game & 4 other old ones in the British Library Shop :-)

[@andyway2101]

both their voces are amazing

[@EadricRicmund]

Yayyy!!! He is featured on G & S!! He gives awesome lectures/speeches. He have an awesome sense of humor!

[@benadrylthundercrotch7144]

I could listen to this man talk about his bowel movements and have a great time

[@StanleyBlonk]

I actually have this boardgame here and apart from it a small book with rules, written by the genius that we're just watching! Great video!

[@wolftail1113]

I like that professor guy we would have awesome conversations

[@clitcommander6946]

This video is awesome and I would definitely pick this game up if I had access

[@sawahtb]

You CAN buy it on the British Museum website.

[@bellportbattlebunker4682]

Awesome history. When I was dating my wife we played backgammon all the time. I had no idea it had such historic roots. Thanks for sharing.

[@AxeGaijin]

For a moment I thought James Randi had uploaded another video at last, then I saw it was on Geek & Sundry and I had to do a double take :)

[@littledragongirl10]

I love the royal game or ur.. its super fun to play

[@gamingxmachina6718]

Love this.

[@SpiralMagic]

Yes, we would ABSOLUTELY buy that.

[@FriendlyNeighborhoodDM]

Dr. Irving Finkel is amazing! Watched him play Ur with Tom Scott (kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYvWnJ2CppVnZqs) in celebration of International Tabletop Day and he is just delightful to watch.

[@PrivateerXTR]

Seriously awesome. Everyone retweet/post/etc this video!

[@slagondrayer447]

Damn kids these days and their Cuneiform tablets...

[@frankharr9466]

I've seen several videos with him and he is always delightful. I hope he continues. Also, yes, but not only should it be cheaper, it needs brighter colors. Not garrish, mind you. There's no reason to go overboard. Just brighter. Maybe a little simpler decaration, but deffinately brighter.

[@walteringle2258]

Some of what he (Dr. Finkel) describes reminds me of Rose Estes's The Name of the Game (Greyhawk Adventures, Vol. 6), where the protagonist describes a game, and a MAJOR plot point, that predated Magic the Gathering, but the particulars were VERY similar to MtG.

[@geoffreywinn4031]

Awesome!

[@lifeofandrewlynn9448]

I have a copy from them. It is a lot of fun. Give it a shot!

[@iusedtobegods]

I got the Royal Game of Ur as a birthday present and travel with it everywhere! I play the game alllllllllllllll of the time based on the rules Dr. Finkel put forth in another video

[@katherinenoggle6407]

Just fyi, there IS a version of this game already out there, called "UR- Royal Game of Sumer" . It was put out in 1977 by the British Museum and the game company Selchow and Righter. I'm guessing Dr. Finkel may have had a hand in it. It's a standard flat game-board size with a gorgeous photographic reproduction of the original board down the center and a few rules regarding the dice throws on one side. The dice are also unique. They're standard 6 sided wooden cubes, but in order to mimic the odds of the original 4 sided triangle die, they have dots on only a few sides. This is why you need the instructions on the board- the number of dots determine whether you move one, two, three spaces, or none at all and you skip your turn. The general object of the game is to get all seven of your pieces out of the "tomb" and off the board. You start on your side, race down the shared middle of the board, swing back round your side and wait till you get the right roll to get off the board. While you're racing down the center, you have the ability to land on an opponent and throw that piece off the board to start all over again. Of course, you're vulnerable as well! The spaces/decorative tiles on the board mean various things also- landing a piece on a rosette means you get another turn, landing on the eyes means your opponent gets to move another piece onto the board IF THEY NOTICE IN TIME, before their next turn is over. I think there's only one tile that is neutral. We bought this game back in the '70s, and still play it today. It's available on eBay, though the prices fluctuate wildly- I've seen it go from $15 to $50. The rules are easy enough for a 6 year old to learn, but strategy is a huge component - my 8 year old niece was known for her ruthlessness (and her utter lack of shame in cheating)! It's really lots of fun to play.

[@YoshMaster]

I wanna try that game out!!!!!

[@FoxDren]

yay more dr finkel and UR

[@suzynolanart]

I would love to have this game!

[@katz86]

I wanna play this game!!

[@B9scrambler]

This is excellent (not done yet!). Thanks :)

[@brightdarkness420]

B9Scrambler ty for not writing "first"

[@B9scrambler]

hahaha! Thought never crossed my mind.

[@Bobvanksy]

Thought it was James Randy there for a moment.

[@HarryBuddhaPalm]

me too

[@K.F-R]

BobvanKay Hah. So did I until I found my glasses.

[@amdreallyfast]

A couple weeks ago I saw him play this game against Tom Scott. I was hoping G&S would find this curator too.

[@dougniergarth236]

I picked up this game back in the early 80's when I was stationed in Virginia. My buddies and I wore the spots off a set of dice, we played it so much. We couldn't make heads or tails out of the rules that came with the game so we used what we DID understand and filled in the rest. I ended up making and firing a set of ceramic die to replace the old ones.

[@mimonita5851]

Me encanta este tipo

[@OutOfPrintGM]

outstanding

[@John-mf6ky]

Wow, I don't even know how I got here but this is fascinating. I haven't played a board game in years. I suddenly have the urge to buy a backgammon set though now haha. I'm going to have to look into ur as well now!

[@DrewSkiGoneGaming]

Amazing

[@Paula-133]

Dr. Finkel is amazing!

[@aelegriniii9448]

Thank you for this video! At last, we have found Pr Armitage :) Dr Finkel, you are amazing!

[@gvrbeer7441]

Do I hear a new edition of tabletop coming up with several historic games?

[@gvrbeer7441]

with Dr. Finkel as guest naturally

[@mikeym9146]

I would totally buy this game

[@ShakalDraconis]

I would love to buy and play a copy of this game.

[@Sk8rToon]

Field trip to England!

[@jascenp]

Must get that game

[@freakincampers]

I'd pledge into kickstarter if they did one of Ur.

[@freakincampers]

Thank you, I went ahead and pledged. Early bird too.

[@00zim00]

+freakincampers hard to tell if it's a official kick-starter by the same guy. seems kinda shady atm :/ . maybe ask the owner if it's endorsed

[@KSweeney36]

00zim00 Could you, please update when they reply.

[@00zim00]

+KSweeney36 tbh I'll probably not re-check it and forget lol. I didn't back it so I'll have no reason to ask.

[@KSweeney36]

00zim00 fair enough. I'm not backing yet, but added to 48hrs reminder. I'm sure someone will ask, they will get and email and hopefully goes up as a Q&A

[@Ratkwad]

This game is amazing actually.

[@GingerByrn1]

More Dr. Finkel, please. We would definitely buy a reproduction as well.

[@mamacrow2759]

The game is actually super fun. You can also add more strategy to it really easily, making it from 60-40 to 50-50 or ever less. Let each player have a specific amount of "special throws". For instance, each player once per game can choose to instead of throwing the dice, pick a number from 0-4 to use. This adds a lot more depth, when should you use your special throw? What number should you use? Etc.

[@calamity-Kate]

I would buy this game!

[@MarkusLegner]

well, finally I travelled to UK and purchased the "cheap" version at the British Museum

[@draco010397]

The Mesoamérica game, is call patolli is quite similar to pachisi in form and the way is played. Thanks to the conquistador was almost lost forever but is a lot of information in the net so everyone can make their own copy

[@JedBrad55]

Would love a game of RGoU with him.

[@richbuilds_com]

When I grow up, I want to be Dr. Irving Finkel

[@OstblockLatina]

This game is basically about the ability to manage what fate throws at you.

[@revertever]

Hands down my favourite gamer of all time.

[@liquidmaster2108]

kickstart the game, I'll join, please put the link on your next video

[@snomonkey9468]

I would buy that game

[@danyellerobinson5940]

We love the second known game Senat

[@tirumalavan09]

Dr. Irving Finkel's alias is 'Wizard of Ur'. Epic beard!

[@PinguinCrazy]

This guy is the perfect embodiment of an RPG character of wisdom!

[@franciscolomeli8931]

What's Dr Irving's wizard domain called?

[@Otrebor2099]

Ludo