THIS IS BULL$*%T! 🐞 MORE BUGS? | Making Mecha'thun Great Again Priest | Rise of Shadows Hearthstone

Yet again Disguised Toast encounters a bug. This time with a new Rise of Shadows take on Mecha'thun Priest: "Mecha'thun Priest with Mecha'thun but the Mecha'thun doesn't even work Mecha'thun Priest" Let's see how it plays out!
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Edited by: / otriggad

[@HoipoIIoi]

tinder girl: so whats your major? toast: *deathrattle orders*

[@ml.2770]

1 more year till I graduate.

[@JimmyR42]

@heeey eeey Actually it does, the first trigger is the EoT effect so both the Doll and Mecha die at the same time. The ordering of the deathrattle trigger doesn't change the board state, when both triggers happen the board state was that he still had an experimenter on the field. You can clearly see in the animation that the doll left the battlefield before the experimenter did, which means that when both creature died at the same time, the check for deathrattle trigger must also happen at the same time. The problem in this combo is that to use experimenter to cheap out Mecha, you need a way to kill it BEFORE Mecha, not at the same time. tl;dr : conditional trigger checks can happen simultaneously when many of them are being met at the same time even if the sequencing of the effects of those triggers comes one after another.

[@vinnregi4882]

@@JimmyR42 We miss you Ben

[@csucskos]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoq1l5mFf6mNmbMm10s Doll was and is bugged for sure

[@kokosnotenXD]

@@csucskos I really want blizzard to give a detailed information on how their system is built. because I mean take MTG for example, you can pretty easily solve these problems due to how simple the stack is built...

[@mechathunandthecultofdeath4958]

*YOU WORK SO HARD, ONLY TO BE WRONGFULLY STRUCK DOWN BY BLIZZARD'S INCOMPETENCE. AT EASE, CULTIST TOAST - THE INTENT WAS THERE.*

[@mortalux]

Why can’t you work properly?! I know your a mech and you can have bugs but FIX YOURSELF !

[@byhyb6vtvtb444]

Thought you died mecha'thun

[@kornx10]

@@byhyb6vtvtb444 Old Gods dont die. They just get rebuilt

[@Thatowlzguy]

All hail

[@penguin4313]

All is logical mecha c`thun died at the same time as doll did but experimentor died only after doll so when c`thun deathrattle worked experimentor be alive, then after doll died with mc`thun she died so evrithing is logical and pretty normal Sorry for my bad english Всё логично меха ктун сдох одновременно с куклой а учёный или экспериментаторша сдохла после их смерти так что когда сработал предсмертный хрип м.к. на доске всё ещё была она и только по том она сдохла от куклы Так что всё логично и ахуенное Приношу извинения за плохое владение языком.

[@wiktortomenel5717]

Toast is like a flower or sandwich, always attracting bugs

[@thegaming5710]

We're asian we have bugs on our sandwich.

[@otdeSai]

@@thegaming5710 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Kher4m]

@@thegaming5710 right, no one cares about bugs they eat, only care about bugs that eat you.

[@mr.poopswag6954]

Not a sandwich a literal toast

[@JorgeEscobarMX]

That's not a bug.

[@Rodney976]

Small indie company interactions

[@thereddevils091]

6:16 for the start of the bugged turn

[@salach1049]

thank you kind sir

[@fuzy9558]

Thanks man you're the new skipperino

[@0888564197]

Ty

[@thereddevils091]

@Steve Johnson despite that maybe making sense, there is no point attempting to justify it. Plus as toast explains everything has an order and cannot happen simultaneously, so it really should work no matter what

[@yani9o]

@Steve Johnson exactly, deathrattles have two stages: trigger and resolve. If-statements are checked in the trigger stage, not the resolve stage. With this "combo", voodoo-dolls deathrattle triggers first, then mecha'thuns deathrattle triggers (but they don't resolve yet, and experimenter is still considered alive at that point). Because of that mecha'thuns if-statement during the trigger-stage is false (experimenter still alive), that's why he doesn't win the game.

[@thatisjustwhatisaid]

ORDER LUL You have to first fix the bug and only OTK after OMEGALUL

[@DragonFoxWolfz]

thatisjustwhatisaid plz look on the left side when the big happens ....

[@thomasli9894]

@@DragonFoxWolfz r/woosh

[@KnownAsKenji]

Blizzard: 'OK so Toast found a good bit of bugs this time, but we got it all included in today's long-term patch maintenance, everything's gonna be nice and-' Toast 1 hour before maintenance: 'BLIZZARD' Blizzard: 'aw fuck'

[@wearytravelerx1]

You can see the exact moment his soul was ripped into two

[@eriksjonering7124]

Austin Green top ten anime betrayals

[@Wulfryk]

Blizzard making sure Toast doesnt get his 100% winrates, the system is rigged!

[@Yadeehoo]

It's not rigged for Thijs, who can still get 300% win rate

[@srn347]

Toast, this is most definitely not a bug. You know how death processing works, right? (You should, I've heard you mention it by name multiple times.) Lethal damage and "destroy" effects don't immediately destroy the minion, "destroy" effects set pending destroy, and when death is processed, minions with lethal damage or pending destroy are destroyed. When you resolve voodoo doll and mecha'thun, you set pending destroy to reckless experimenter, then you attempt to set pending destroy on the opposing hero (fails because you have reckless experimenter, thus mecha'thun's condition is not met), then when the next round of death processing occurs, reckless experimenter dies.

[@_Farre]

That wouldn’t matter because yes, the Reckless put pending destroy on deathrattle minions BUT the Voodoo was played first and the Voodoo’s pending destroy would hit the Reckless first when the Voodoo die. Because order. Then the second wave would come and kill Mecha. Therefore activating Mecha’s pending destroy on the enemy hero, which would be successful as all requirements were met.

[@NoeLPZC]

We can test this by checking Toast's claim about Savannah Highmane. If the hyenas are spawned and hit by the weapon's deathrattle (as Toast claims) then your theory is wrong, since SH's death is being processed BEFORE the next deathrattle in the stack activates. So either Toast is wrong regarding SH or this is indeed a bug.

[@srn347]

@@_Farre No, it most certainly would matter because voodoo doll doesn't destroy immediately, it sets pending destroy. First wave: destroy voodoo doll and mecha'thun, then resolve their deathrattles in that order. Reckless gets pending destroy and opposing hero doesn't because there's still a reckless experimenter on the field. Second wave: reckless experimenter dies.

[@Grr8jon]

srn347 actually viewed the video a few times and you’re right. It’s not a bug. Reckless experimenter dies last in the video. It looks like voodoo doll and mechathun died simultaneously.

[@KainYusanagi]

"I like how people are saying it's not a bug but you have the old mecha'thun priest combo with ticking abomination that wouldn't work if what they were saying was accurate."

[@justintan5200]

Reformed arc is going down the drain

[@purpleblah2]

Time for Blizzard Jail Shippūden

[@BumpySpaceRoad]

And why exactly might that be?

[@Swagbastian]

@@BumpySpaceRoad Because he keeps getting angry at Blizzard.

[@BumpySpaceRoad]

@@Swagbastian and that's because he encountered a bug in the game. How is that hurting his 'reformed' arc

[@AtroLine626]

@@BumpySpaceRoad you had a good point and then you fucked it up feelsbadman

[@Cuestrupaster]

Mecha'thun priest but Mecha'thun deathrattle doesn't work Mecha'Thun deck.... ~Love it!

[@csucskos]

Easiest way to win with Mechatun: Make your opponent play Dusfallen Aviana... EZ

[@ScyelGale]

there's a bug in *rumble run* with priest's shrine deathrattle. where you use the slime card that eats a friendly minion and when that slime dies the game would stop to respond. happened 4 times to me earlier. xD

[@normanbreau295]

Also a bug where if you trigger the hunter's Freezing Trap with your shrine, the shrine gets removed from the board, but doesn't appear in your hand. Got really frustrated as I kept on triggering it when playing the warrior armour shrine facing against the hunter that plays a random secret when they cast a spell.

[@PopeMical]

I like how people are saying it's not a bug but you have the old mecha'thun priest combo with ticking abomination that wouldn't work if what they were saying was accurate.

[@Noobie2k7]

It is a completely different interaction. . . A minions death being completely resolved and a minion being summoned from hand are completely different events. All the people who think they're somehow the same are just dumb. Sorry. Minions ALWAYS die after all other effects have resolved. No other interaction in the game as a minion being removed from the board by death in the middle of an effect chain.

[@shanemayberry8092]

He actually takes a moment in the video to acknowledge that this interaction is different than that one because Mecha'thun dies from ticking rather than the experimenters buff. TBH I do not think this is a "bug", as in the card or whatever is malfunctioning, however I am curious to know if it is working as intended by Blizzard. I do want to point out that Experimenter was still on the field when Mecha'thun died... *shrug*

[@ZombiZohm]

@@Noobie2k7 this might be closer to the interaction with the Hydra where you can Overkill it and continue causing damage to the enemy player after the Hydra would normally be dead. At the end of the damage cycle the Hydra actually dies that disappears from the board.

[@dorodazlac5305]

Possible this happened? 1. Experimeter's effect triggers killing Mecha and Voodoo 2. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo die, triggering effect 3. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo deathrattles trigger 4. Simultaneously Mecha "win effect" triggers (Experimenter technically still on board) while Voodoo "kill effect" triggers to kill Experimenter 5. Simultaneously Mecha's effect resolves and does not "win" game while Voodoo effect resolves and kills Experimenter

[@0123-y5i]

rod calzado yes! The experimenter dies to an effect placed on it by voodoo doll, not voodoo doll’s deathrattle itself. Therefore it happens after the deathrattle phase you can see it dies last slightly after both voodoo doll and mechathun die

[@Hogscraper]

Ben Brode said on reddit: "Things happen one after the other, but the one thing that never happens during a card resolution or trigger is minions dying. For example, if you have 3 Wild Pyromancers, and play a spell, they ALL get to trigger (even though they are all at 0 Health after the 2nd one triggers). We always wait for all effects to finish firing before cleaning up minions who are 'dead'." So the Reckless Experimenter would be deemed as 'a corpse on the field' until its effect was fully resolved so deathrattle order is irrelevant since they didn't kill the RE with damage to get around that. Unless you can find another example where the RE is killed without damaging effects like the coffin combo it seems like it's supposed to work that way.

[@zbishop_1]

They both triggered at the same time Doll: check if the minion still alive then will destroy the minion. Mecathun: check the conditions then will destroy the enemy hero.

[@dorodazlac5305]

1. Experimeter's effect triggers killing Mecha and Voodoo 2. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo die, triggering effect 3. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo deathrattles trigger 4. Simultaneously Mecha "win effect" triggers (checking condition, with experimenter technically still on board) while Voodoo "kill effect" triggers to kill Experimenter 5. Simultaneously Mecha's effect resolves and does not "win" game while Voodoo effect resolves and kills Experimenter Hmm.. Just a thought, possible that this happened in order (looking at "trigger" and "resolution" separately).

[@MantrahNoLife]

ok Toast, what about this, galvanizer, baneful banker, brewmaster, DR BOOMS SCHEME, shield slam? worst mecha'thun combo ever made, with trash scheme? sounds like somthing you would do. (not an insult)

[@misele1965]

Is this an OTK tho? Booms scheme still costs 5 mana

[@MantrahNoLife]

@@misele1965 booms sheme costs 4

[@AtroLine626]

double baleful for galvanizer and saving the coin for an 11 mana combo??? seems legit

[@MantrahNoLife]

yeah, it's stupid

[@MantrahNoLife]

or you could just pray to god and randomly roll galvanizer

[@Pokeolin132]

Toast is right. Even if it was explained how it works right now, doesn't mean it's the intended way of working.

[@myblindyvids]

K1tsun and even if it is how it’s intended to work, it’s not the way it should work

[@dorodazlac5305]

1. Experimeter's effect triggers killing Mecha and Voodoo 2. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo die, triggering effect 3. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo deathrattles trigger 4. Simultaneously Mecha "win effect" triggers (Experimenter technically still on board) while Voodoo "kill effect" triggers to kill Experimenter 5. Simultaneously Mecha's effect resolves and does not "win" game while Voodoo effect resolves and kills Experimenter Hmm.. Just a thought, possible that this happened in order (looking at "trigger" and resolution" separately).

[@pierrotmoon1]

@@dorodazlac5305 how do you think you can explain this stuff when you use the word "simultaneously" and "while" to describe Hearthstone interactions.

[@Zhon66]

All effects in the same phase finish resolving before any minions are removed from the board. The experimenter is marked for death before mecha’thun triggers, but because both deathrattles occur in the same phase, mecha’thun is fully resolved before experimenter is removed from the board. This interaction is intended.

[@ALara-bl8nj]

@Stephen that's is right. This is not a bug.

[@Aeri_shiro]

You need to lower the fps to 10 and play the cards with 230 APM. That way the Experimenteer will die before the Mechathun even hits the board. But because the of the experimenteer was already triggered the Mechathun will die anyways. Hearthstone is a purely skill based game you just need to get better. Trust me i'm Rank 26 and it works 200% of the time everytime

[@samrare64]

Aeri think you may have to add the /s

[@Aeri_shiro]

@@samrare64 I mean if it's not obvious enough people have to reconsider their life situation they're in right now

[@leonardodellama9044]

I think this mechanic is working right. Because of how end of turn effects work. Usually all effects happen and then the inflicted deaths are processed. In this case the 2 end of turn effects are doll and mechathun. They die, as a end of turn effect, and voodoo "kills" the 4/6, but she only really dies when the inflicted deaths are processed. Take for example other end of turn examples, minions stay on the board after all end of turn effects happened, even being dead. So it's not a bug, its just inconsistency by Blizzards part.

[@shakuganfan99]

you actually could have won by killing the voodoo doll using the wild pyromancer, so the bug with the order does not happen.

[@koenagtereek3929]

Toast its not a bug. Its how the cards and interactions have always worked. The reason it doesnt work is because deathrattles trigger before minions die. This does mean the text on mechatun is wrong though. It should be deathrattle when only this minion is alive. And thats probably the way it was coded. Btw keep up the good work love your vids.

[@pedrodanielboanovaferreira1714]

The way I see it it's working as expected. The enchantment that kills the vodoo doll and mech'Thun happens before the deathrattle trigger on vodoo doll meaning that the mech'thun and the vodoo doll die before the other minion.

[@JunglingFist]

I think it is currently doing this: Hits End of turn Does all end of turn things Kills the Loot Hoarder Kills the Voodoo Doll Kills the Mecha'Thun Done with all the end of turn things Then Does deathrattles Draw a card Sets Reckless Experimenter to die Win the game if no cards in deck or board (Fails because Reckless is still alive) End of deathrattles Reckless experimenter dies I personally think that they should fix it. I think the way voodoo doll deathrattle is operating right now should be changed so it's target dies before going onto other queued deathrattles

[@Icetea-2000]

But the point is that within that one action of the turn ending, the hand, deck and board are empty. The Mechathun dies with everything else in one motion. Even though the code works normally, it should still be designed differently. Yes I know this is 3 years old

[@MrFox-xr9cc]

Effect Minions only die AFTER their effects resolve. An Acolyte of pain keeps drawing if you shoot him with magic missiles even after he should be dead. If you use an Omega Devastator on Brann Bronzebeard he dies with -16, not with -6, because again, he dies AFTER his effect resolves. This is Consinstent for ALL Effect Minions, also for Reckless. Original Combo: Reckless Effect Starts [ DR: MT get's cheated out. DR: 5 dmg to everyone DR: 5 dmg to everyone (at this point, Reckless and MT should die. and it kinda does, but only AFTER her effect is fully resolved, Like with Brann as explained before.) ] Reckless and MT die MT deathrattle activates Toast Combo: Reckless Effect Starts [ DR: Voodoo Doll Destroys Reckless (which will happen after Reckless fully resolves its effect, again like a brann being hit by an omega devestator and still surviving to take the second shot.) DR: MT DR resolves. Since this still happens During the Resolving of the Reckless effect, Reckless hasn't officially died yet) ] Reckless dies I agree that it's unintuitive and a bit strange, but completely consistent with how effect minions work. So i disagree to it beeing a bug.

[@susanucristian6029]

Perfect explaining, no bug here... ppl talking about "order" but completely ignoring it at 20:59 where it's clear as hell how they get triggered and the checks that are done...

[@lolosh99]

That first guy..he is playing handmage with that card pack and he is unlucky... Is it me from an alternate universe ? But he is playing against toast whom is a bug magnet

[@themightysven]

Has he tried making the OTK : Play Mecha'thun, Play one (or two) Lazul's Scheme to reduce it's attack to 0, play topsy turvy, Profit. Then the rest of the deck can be about cycling, and because the spells cost 0 the Galvanizers can be dropped.

[@zhenbinlam8467]

People who said this is not a bug probably forgot there's a word call "order". Edit: Even it's freaking looks like they are die in same times, it still has a order which the skill active first, god damnit BeLiEvE iN fReAkInG tOaSt ThE hEaRtHsToNe InTeRaCtIoN mAsTeR

[@Tigly031]

The order is: End of turn --> Voodoo doll and Mecha'tun die --> Reckless experimenter dies from death of voodoo doll. That makes 1 minion on Disguised's side when mecha'tun died.

[@peculiarperineum546]

Guillaume Labelle mechathun was played after voodoo doll, so the dolls deathrattle should trigger before mechathuns

[@randomnobody660]

@@Tigly031OK when is hearthstone ever breadth first? It's always depth first.

[@dd7896]

@@Tigly031 Mate. Mecha'thun reads: Deathrattle:If you have no cards in your deck, hand, and battlefield, destroy the enemy hero. -> That means the board doesn't need to be clear when Mecha'thun dies, it needs to be clear when his Deathrattle triggers. The bug at hand is the resolution check. It checks if the board, hand and deck is empty when Mecha'thun dies. It SHOULD check, when his Deathrattle triggers. If Mecha'thun was worded: "Deathrattle: If you have had no cards in your deck, hand and battlefield, when Mecha'thun died, destroy the enemy hero." It would not be a bug. Since that isn't the case, it is clearly a bug and you're just trolling or actually stupid. Your choice.

[@georgesdragon8722]

@@peculiarperineum546 The deathrattle triggers first, but the minion dies AFTER the Mecha'thun deathrattle triggers

[@Zhon66]

Minions aren't removed from the board until after any "simultaneous" effects fully resolve. In the old combo, Reckless Experimenter and Mecha'thun died in the same phase (to the second abomination's deathrattle) so it worked. In this one, the end of turn phase kills voodoo doll and mecha'thun, but reckless experimenter is killed as a result of those deathrattles, which means it creates a new, second death phase that cannot resolve until both voodoo doll and mecha'thun are dead. This is covered in Hearthstone's advanced rulebook: hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Advanced_rulebook#Death_Phases_and_consequences_of_Death

[@tcgoober]

Game has always been super inconsistent

[@dorodazlac5305]

1. Experimeter's effect triggers killing Mecha and Voodoo 2. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo die, triggering effect 3. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo deathrattles trigger 4. Simultaneously Mecha "win effect" triggers (Experimenter technically still on board) while Voodoo "kill effect" triggers to kill Experimenter 5. Simultaneously Mecha's effect resolves and does not "win" game while Voodoo effect resolves and kills Experimenter Hmm.. Just a thought, possible that this happened in order (looking at "trigger" and resolution" separately). ? Thoughts?

[@adRozi]

But in the text of Voodoo Doll it should kill the targeted minion at the same time as it dies, not after.

[@adRozi]

Just my opinion

[@dorodazlac5305]

@@adRozi Hmm... that could be possible, but the text says: "Deathrattle: Kill chosen minion." So it should interpret as it "will" kill the minion (future), rather than simultaneously.

[@adRozi]

@@dorodazlac5305 but it says when it dies, destroy the chosen minion. Not after it dies

[@KaiserTheDarkWolf]

that sounds like a bug to me. In any card game effect that trigger at same time have an order. Basically you choose what happens first and "what happens first" means what actions resolve first. What should happens is that voodoo doll effects need to be check first because you play the card first. Something similar like how bomb minions of hunter effects vs lifesteals works - sometimes the bomb hit first and them you gain life and sometimes the bomb go second and you health first it depends of what minion was played first. If both happens "at same time" literally, is a bug.

[@josephcanterbury6432]

Could you please explain this bug in detail Toast? I actually thought about it and I didn't really get why it's a bug. If it is coded that way, isn't it intended to work this way? Much confusion.

[@kokosnotenXD]

well just cause it's coded that way does not mean that it's intended, because hearthstone is riddled with buggy interactions

[@dariolaguardia9984]

It is not a bug, the effect that triggers first the the.5 mana card that makes minion dies at the end of turn, so mecha'thun dies befor the 5 mana cost minion

[@baimuhtar8186]

Because you didn't attack at the start of the game

[@pierrotmoon1]

I think it is a bug, but I doubt they will fix it because it seems like a core pile order issue. End of turn => Buff activates => Doll deathrattle triggers (but only take effect after the whole deathrattle effect phase is over), then Mechathun deathrattle triggers (and activates instantaneously for some reason)-> Doll deathrattle takes effect. It seems like instead of adding an action right after its place in the pile, the doll deathrattle waits for all the pile to be over to actually take effect. Changing that surely will break other things in the game, and make some other interactions unintuitive. Or maybe mecha'thun is brocken and activates prematurely? Seems like spaggeti code to me :)

[@aaronlewis4266]

No 100% winrate. Might as well quit

[@gustavofring1908]

What's the problem? First Reckless deathrattle triggers, killing the other 2 minions. Only after that deathrattle resolves, the Voodoo Doll's deathrattle can resolve, and the Reckless Experimenter can die.

[@ioanacalin8465]

I think !....i do not know...but i think a deathrattle card before triggering/activate his effect, it checks his requirements.In this case your lab guy kills both the puppet and the cthun and triggers the deathrattle check phase in the order you played them.So it triggers the puppet,did he died? Yes...does he have the target you chose to kill when he dies?Yes....so is GOING to happen.Next cthun...did he died?Yes....Is the only minion on your board and you have no other cards in hand and deck?No....the lab guy is still alive cuz the puppet only checked his requirements to trigger and not actually kill the lab guy.Then the phase will end.Puppet and chtun dies,puppet kill the lab guy cuz the requirements were met and the cthun just dies doing nothing cuz requirements were not met.This is just my theory....a way that explains why this does not work.If i'm wrong i would apreciate a scenario where what i said is not working this way :)

[@DeeoMaika]

I don't get it. How is someone telling you that "when Mechathun dies the Reckless Experimenter is still alive on the board" is the same as explaining you the bug?

[@Yadeehoo]

ticking abomination died at the same time as Mecha'thun, yet it used to work, so it was abomination that was bugged. It shouldn't have worked at all in the first place.

[@Robert-xt7sn]

The way this is supposed to work is: Voodoo Doll dies and kills Experimenter, then Mecha'thun dies and the game ends. But instead, Experimenter dies after both of them, which makes 0 actual sense. That's not how that interaction is supposed to take place.

[@Oxxyjoe]

At the end of his turn, both deathrattle minions die. Experimenter dies after. It's not a bug, get over it

[@Robert-xt7sn]

@@Oxxyjoe Do you remember how the old Mecha'thun priest worked and how the order of the deathrattles played mattered? It's supposed to work the same way. It is a bug, get over it.

[@Robert-xt7sn]

When you played Coffin Crasher into double Ticking Abomination, if it supposed to work the way you're suggesting then Mecha'thun wouldn't be pulled from hand unto the board before the Ticking Abominations exploded. It would wait until the very end , till the board is nuked and then Mecha'thun would be pulled.

[@Oxxyjoe]

@@Robert-xt7sn ah yes I see now

[@Oxxyjoe]

@@Robert-xt7sn I changed my mind. It's not inconsistent nor a bug. Before, you had a coffin crasher and two ticking aboms die at the same time. Because of deathrattle order, the coffin crasher pulled mechathun before the aboms exploded. Now, you play mechathun from hand and it dies when the turn ends, which is before experimenter dies.

[@Witixin]

I think the interaction goes like this Everyone dies. Nothing happens

[@Frozen_Bubbles]

Like IRL ;)

[@Red_Ranger_Wien]

This feels intentional and not a bug.

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

@@sonsonny1 It makes even more sense if Mecha'thun simply counts dead minions as being on the battlefield because you can clearly see them on the battlefield. Mecha'thun says Deathrattle: If you have no cards in your deck, hand, and battlefield, destroy the enemy hero. Keyword battlefield.

[@Tooamazin]

@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana Nah, I don't think that is the case. If it was then mecha'thun would count as a dead minion on the battlefield. If they all actually die at the exact same time then it should work properly but since one deathrattle is triggering another I guess they don't all get to trigger at the same time so it bugs out.

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

@@TooamazinDeathrattle triggers after a minion leaves the battlefield, otherwise, Savannah Highmane on a full board would spawn nothing. The only reason this seems weird is that there has never been a card that cares about a card being on the battlefield, instead of whether or not it was alive.

[@zekkekeipa6521]

He can actually activate Mechatun in this deck: Galvanized Mechatun + Auchenai + 2x Regenerate + Circle = Easy Legend/100% WR\CraziestDeckIEverPlayed\ e.t.c

[@Csaszarcsaba1]

Wait that is genius xD

[@Ethan-nz8ll]

I think it's because Reckless Experimenter was played before Voodoo Doll, so the "end of turn" effect takes place before the Voodoo Doll's deathrattle which kills the Experimenter. But because the Mechathun dies at the "end of turn" phase, and before the Voodoo Deathrattle (which kills the experimenter). So the effect order would be EXPERIMENTER > VOODOO DOLL/MECHATHUN > VOODOO DOLL DEATHRATTLE It scans as though there is still a minion on board? So it doesn't meet the condition PS. This is what I think, so don't flame me too much pls.

[@SuperDoomed23]

Can't play voodoo doll first before reckless experimenter. You need to play reckless experimenter first to trigger the voodoo dolls effect at the end of the turn. If you play voodoo doll first then reckless experimenter then mechathun only mechathuns deathrattle will trigger at the end of turn then the field will be left with voodoo doll and reckless experimenter. Toast order is correct with reckless experimenter into voodoo doll into mecha'thun.

[@Ethan-nz8ll]

@@SuperDoomed23 I know that he did it in the only plausible way. But I think because according to cards effects activating in the order they are played, that would mean the Reckless Experimenter's effect would activate before the Voodoo Doll's. Which would essentially kill both. I think this means the game views the order as " End of turn effect > kills Doll and Mechathun > Doll and Mechathun Deathrattle search/effect > Experimenter dies " then again, I may be wrong and you may be right. Who can even tell with Blizzard anymore.

[@NukaColaRanger]

Disguised Toast you god damn genius!

[@crispytam]

It's not a bug. You describe a scenario where the "buff" from Reckless would stay there after it has left the battlefield/died. You state that the Voodoo Doll dies, triggers deathrattle, kills Reckless - but how would Mecha'thun die then? In reality the Reckless buff/aura goes off simultaneously and kills off Voodoo AND Mecha'thun and their death rattles trigger after they've both died at the end of turn, which then kills your Reckless last. Sorry to say, but this does not seem like a bug. Love the content though.

[@MrMarclax]

again, stating the bug doesnt change anything. Voodoo is triggered first and say "kill X minion". Logicaly, it should die before mechathun's deathratle goes off, but it didnt.

[@douglaslopes5913]

That interaction was avaliable last expantion, did the bug exist then?

[@ricardogremmelmaier7881]

I think its a voodoo doll bug, you can see in the second game loot hoarder triggering and then mecathun, skipping the doll

[@celestial0014]

Nope when boomsday released i encountered someone that plays this combo it works

[@sonsonny1]

@@celestial0014 You sure that wasn't a ticking abomination deck?

[@paulelephant9521]

lol I literally built this deck last night but didn't get chance to try it out, thanks for finding this bug Toast. Sucks though!

[@Osnapitsjonxd]

21:00 the reckless experimenter is last to die. He plays reckless experimenter, loot hoarder, voodoo doll then mechathun. End phase comes then reckless experimenter activates which kills all deathrattle minions, which then triggers voodoo doll which causes reckless experimenter to die last. Makes sense. Up vote so toast can see my explanation. It's no bug. Interaction works as intended. All the deathrattle minions die at the same time which triggers the voodoo doll that left the field which then kills reckless experimenter last.

[@TrungNguyen-is6lq]

In the "same time" that the deathrattles trigger, voodoo still triggers first (if you recall abomination otk), so this should be the order of death: voodoo -> reckless -> mechathun

[@favray]

But the voodoo doll death is what triggers the reckless death so you’re wrong. You got your order mixed up. Just because the reckless is the last standing minion on the field doesn’t mean it’s supposed to be that way. This was indeed a bug

[@mazenmz603]

the way you know this is a bug is by looking at the old combo ( the 6 mana used to pull mechathun from hand before the 2 other 5 mana minions destroy the board ) and by the sam logic voodoo destroys the minion then mechathun should happen

[@crafterbros8708]

mazen mz i completely agree. If in that combo, it works because mecha’thun gets pulled first, then in this combo, it should work because reckless experimenter gets killed first

[@azrazelhananto]

I dont think "destroy a minion" hence killing it is the same as "put a minion in thr battlefield". Since the phase ruling is that killed minions will only die in their own phase, therefore the voodoo dolls deathrattle puts reckless experimenter into a death queue in which it will start after all the current actions in the death phase (minions dying and deathrattles cuased by the reckless experimenter effect) finish. Therefore mechstun checks reckless experimenter as alive. The old combo uses a different ruling, in which minions played from hand due to a cards deathrattle happens at the current phase and doesnt create a new one (like voodoo dolls effect) so it works in that way

[@MrFox-xr9cc]

I think it's a bit different than the original combo. Reckless says that minions you PLAY die at the end of the turn. so reckless triggers: [death phase of coffin crasher and the 2 guys that deal 5 dmg deathrattles trigger in order] Death Phase of Reckless and Mecha'Thun Deathrattle Triggers So we got Death Phase -> Deathrattles -> MT Death -> MT Deathrattle Toasts is PLAYING Mecha'thun with reckless here though. So we got: Reckless Triggers: [Death Phase of Voodoo and MT Deathrattles Trigger in Order], however: Only after MT's Death the effect of Reckless is finished and ends, which allows her to die. Which is why i don't think it is a bug. Brann for example does the same. If you play a damaging Battlecry to kill brann, it triggers again, even though brann should be dead already, because he dies AFTER his effect resolves. Same for Reckless. MT death is part of the Reckless effect, Reckless dies after resolving its effect.

[@Noobie2k7]

It is completely different to the original combo. . . .

[@dorodazlac5305]

Possible this happened? 1. Experimeter's effect triggers killing Mecha and Voodoo 2. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo die, triggering effect 3. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo deathrattles trigger 4. Simultaneously Mecha "win effect" triggers (Experimenter technically still on board) while Voodoo "kill effect" triggers to kill Experimenter 5. Simultaneously Mecha's effect resolves and does not "win" game while Voodoo effect resolves and kills Experimenter

[@RutenFess]

thats kinda not a bug, just how hearthstone orders works: phase of deathrattles comes before phase of destroying minions, for example when 2 abomination died at the same time and enemy's acolyte of pain had 1 hp left he will get 4 damage and draw 2 cards because 1st deathrattle killed him, but there another deathrattle before "dead minions removing" phase and game think that acolyte still alive, moreover, if enemy had any way to increase acolyte's HP +4 by own deathrattle minion(s) he will survive both abominations and stay with 1 HP. That also works for heroes, so hero can survive fatal deathrattle if he had own healing deathrattle at same time and return HP from negative to positive again.

[@beachloop1537]

The reason this isn't a bug is because of how the deaths are queued. In this example, reckless experimenter kills both voodoo doll and mechathun simultaneously, but voodoo doll was played first so it is queued first, then mechathun is queued. Then, the first death occurs, causing voodoo doll's deathrattle to trigger, which adds reckless experimenter to the death queue. Because Mecha'thun died simultaneously with voodoo doll, mechathun is then killed before the reckless experimenter, causing the deathrattle of mecha'thun to not trigger. It's just a weird interaction which isn't seen often and you just happened to find the one way to make the entire game depend on a weird way the game is coded.

[@deeepinsomnia]

I think about it in terms of Magic the Gathering and the stack, with the order being 1st to last instead of last to first. Basically, is the Experimenter still "in play" when the death rattle trigger for Mecha'Thun makes it's checks? Doll triggers --> Experimenter is to be destroyed (goes on the stack, not resolved), next the mecha'thun checks because it's the same phase, as you put it, The doll is considered not in play as is the mecha'thun because they have to be dead to trigger, but the experimenter has not "left play" yet because the triggers are not fully resolved. It's the only thing I can think of. For example in Magic (yes different games) you can still target a creature before it dies even if there is an ability/lethal damage, because not removed from play yet. Not sure how familiar you are with the game, but the logic makes sense based on the way hearthstone resolves effects. Unless I'm wrong :)

[@MightStarCZ]

Death of minion is evaluated after deathrattle phase ends... Which means the Reckless Experimenter dies after the Mecha'thun's deathrattle has been triggered... sh*tty interaction nonetheless

[@nathanevans920]

It is a bug because the experimenter kills the voodoo doll after the mechathun effect. Also try lazuls scheme forbidden words instead of that combo :))))

[@xjpainttx]

Nathan Evans can’t lazul your own minion

[@GGkorok]

Reckless isnt a deathrattle it is an end of turn so it triggers then the death rattle triggers in that order same as if Rag's end of turn hits a death rattle minion just happens without any animation. So it was alive to kill the doll and Mech then the doll killed it.

[@ezariogerion3138]

So Deathrattle should have triggered after the End of turn effect. What apparently happened: End of turn: Voodoo Doll dies, then MechaChtun dies. Then activates Voodoo Doll's Deathrattle and kills Reckless. What should have happened, according to Blizzard - In the same phase, all effects of a first effect resolves, THEN resolves next effect in that phase. So Voodoo Doll should have ended all his interactions and Reckless should have died before MechaChtun Deathrattle activates.

[@maxduwarf9502]

Does the effect of the reckless experimenter ends when she dies? i mean it may not be a bug if the reckless needs to be alive for the deathrattle minions to die at the end of the turn, so the deathrattle of the boodoo doll doesn't kill the experimenter before the mecathun because if the experimenter dies before, her effect doesn't kill the mecathun? i don't know

[@555Soupy555]

She can die, it's an "enchantment" placed on the minions you play when she is on board

[@waterierStone]

Bug or inconsistency aside, I think the second deck is only slightly more flexible with it's 3 card setup for only 2-3 extra mana. Also, 3 galvanizers is better with dead ringer, which should replace loot Horder in both decks. However, it suffers from the combo hate card that plays your spell.

[@Mazra42]

If you listen closely, you can hear a Hearthstone developer going "Somebody toucha my spaghet!" in the background. #smallindiecompany

[@PabloRodriguez-um5ht]

Toast watching himself dance lmfaoo

[@some1fromthedark]

So according to the advanced rulebook, which is worth pointing out is fan made based on observations, this "bug" is actually a feature. The reason is because deaths are resolved in phases. On the turn shown in the video the first phase occurs when Toast ends his turn. The Reckless Experimenter's effect is applied destroying the Voodoo Doll and Mecha'thun. The death phase resolves all effects excluding death before continuing and those effects are resolved in play order. Voodoo Doll was played first, so it resolves first. It is sent to the graveyard and its deathrattle occurs destroying the Reckless Experimenter. Since further death is excluded from resolving in the middle of the phase, Reckless Experimenter is not sent to the graveyard. Next Mecha'thun resolves its death. It is sent to the graveyard and its deathrattle triggers, but Reckless Experimenter is on the field so you do not win the game. Since there are no more deaths that need to resolve in this phase, the game checks if there are any minions on the board that are destroyed. It finds Reckless Experimenter, who was destroyed by Voodoo Doll. The game begins a second death phase where it resolves Reckless Experimenter's death, sending it to the graveyard. This interaction has been documented by the advanced rulebook since June 2015, so it seems like it is not a bug, but rather an intended feature for how death is resolved in the game. TLDR: This type of interaction has been documented for nearly 4 years, and isn't a bug.

[@Axel-di1uv]

i liked the chef nomi deck alot

[@Timinem]

I think its because voodoo doll's deathrattle triggers at the same time as mecathun's, so when mecathun dies, experimenter is still alive. Experimenter dies after voodoo and mecathun die.

[@CtoPSilly]

Do the cards briefly exist on board with the death state before they're checked to be removed?

[@williamP1307]

Rank 20 Player: iT dOeSnT wOrK bEcAuSe ReCkLeSs ExPeRiMeNtEr DiEs AfTeR VoOdOo DoLl¡¡ Any Player > a Dumpster Rank Player: Lol. Toast got rekted by a bug again.

[@Definitely_Melnyx]

Technically Arena Players can be rank 25

[@algumnomeaihehe]

at least this 『youtube commenter』got to feel intellectually superior to some strawpeople today.

[@williamP1307]

@@Definitely_Melnyx Damn you got me

[@williamP1307]

@@Definitely_Melnyx Damn you got me

[@riccardodellorto4267]

He probably banned 100 people that claimed that this wasn't a bug. F

[@sidhantuprety4208]

Fr?

[@foniks100]

Banned :)

[@tuxedobob2]

I don't really care whether it's perceived as a bug, but... All end of turn effects trigger at the same time. The Deathrattle effects trigger as part of the end of turn trigger, and conditions are checked when they trigger, but they aren't resolved until after the end of turn triggers. So what happens? 1. Trigger all EOT abilities. 2. Voodoo Doll's EOT ability triggers and kills it. 3. Voodoo Doll's Deathrattle triggers. The Reckless Experimenter is going to die, once we're done with step 1. 4. Mecha'thun's EOT ability triggers and kills it. 5. Mecha'thun's Deathrattle Triggers. Its conditions are not met, so it isn't added to the queue (stack, series, whatever you want to call it). 6. All EOT abilities are done. 7. Reckless Experimenter is killed by Voodoo Doll. To be honest, 3 and 4 could be swapped. Doesn't matter. The alleged bug is that either Voodoo Doll's Deathrattle should resolve when it triggers, killing the Reckless Experimenter instantly, or that Mecha'thun's Deathrattle's conditions should be checked when it resolves, not when it triggers.

[@smtnbad]

"all end of turn effects trigger at the same time" Are they? As i remember if you have multiple ragnaroses and first kills a minion, other rags won't shoot the dead minion, so they have some kind of order Correct me if im mistaken

[@celestial0014]

The point here is when voodoo doll dies it should kill the reckless experimenter because it is voodoo dolls deathrattle then mechathun deathrattle triggers afterwards because of the order it was played

[@dragonstorm7861]

It seems that no one gets that what makes a bug/glitch is whether or not the devs intended for the specific action that actually happened to occur. The reason why a bug exists is the coding was inputted incorrectly or it just doesn't mesh well with another bit of coding. If Blizzard says themselves that the interaction that caused Toast to lose here was MEANT to happen, then it's not a bug and instead an intended feature. Which I would assume that not a single person would with, but it would be on Blizzard to identify the interaction.

[@dragonstorm7861]

@@horoboro6537 Honestly, I don't know how the orders work all that much, so I wouldn't say that I have a strong opinion on the matter. I was just trying to put the idea of what a bug actually is out there since a good few people didn't seem to understand that explaining what happened doesn't mean that it's not a bug and vice versa. Although, doesn't reckless apply the affect directly to the minion as they are summoned? So, if the minion was to be silenced, then they wouldn't die at the end of the turn. Wouldn't the reckless not matter after the minions have been given the effect at that point? If the effect only triggers with reckless on board at the end of the turn, then I'd agree with you. It kind of looks like it was applied to the minions from the lightning symbol over the deathrattle symbol, but I also don't know how the orders work since I only really watch Hearthstone instead of play it.

[@dragonstorm7861]

@@horoboro6537 Well, I can't argue with you since I don't know much about how the order system works, but it's entirely on how Blizzard reacts to this as they're the sole entity that will judge whether this was intended or not.

[@dragonstorm7861]

@@horoboro6537 I mean, to be fair, it's his job to know. He basically lives and breathes Hearthstone. A few of his meme decks wouldn't work if he didn't know the order of deathrattles and how they work together. Those select decks never existing would mean less views which is less money being made. Although, I do agree that his reaction is a bit exaggerated as he should know that there ARE going to be bugs in every game, so he shouldn't get so hung up over it.

[@dragonstorm7861]

@@horoboro6537 Yeah, I see what you mean. Although, he did explain it by describing how it works with another combo instead of using that combo. He also added the 2nd clip of him failing because he wanted to see if he could meme with it and try to get the other person to concede. I'm not sure why he added in the other combo though. Maybe he was just upset and wasn't really thinking about it.

[@themalachai6801]

Interesting, so the deathrattles trigger in the order they were played but Reckless experimenter kills all the deathrattle minions simultaneously. Which makes it so that mechathun will be dead before Reckless is.

[@reishin3173]

Is it possible that Reckless Experimenter's Buff get apply in the order of the cards in your deck. Meaning that since Mecha'thun comes before the Voodoo doll, that it dies before the voodoo doll at the end of turn?

[@reishin3173]

lol, never mind, your second game disproves that theory

[@hazakimasu]

watching disguised toast is like watching anime to me~ love the every plot you made toast keep it up~

[@Jason-fv4rg]

Not a bug, just how death resolution has always worked. Minion death is resolved *after* all other effects, in a queue fashion. At the end of the turn the death queue contains Doll, Mecha'Thun and Reckless Experimenter, in that order. When Mecha'thun's death is resolved, Reckless Experimenter hasn't been removed from the board yet so his deathrattle doesn't trigger.

[@ShinBushuShien]

Let's replicate a similiar situation to check when the ALIVE/DEATH state a minion is recorded within the Deathrattle resolving in the order ==Situation== - Enemy's side has only 1 and 1 Loot Hoarder. - (1) You played first a Voodoo Doll targets enemy Loot Hoarder, - (2) Play Tentacle of N'Zoth. - (3) Then play Sylvanas Windrunner. - (4) Lastly play Spawn of N'Zoth. - Cast Bloodbloom, Cast Darkest Hour (let's say there are no minions in the Deck at this time) (Note the order of play) -------------- ==Question== 1/ Will the effect of Loot Hoarder resolves right after resolving Voodoo Doll's Deathrattle? 2/ When was Loot Hoarder's Deathrattle triggered after resolving Deathrattle effect from (1), (2), (3) or (4)? 3/ Which player will get to draw a card from Loot Hoarder's Deathrattle effect? ------------- A VERY BIG QUESTION after test: Is it right after Voodoo Doll resolves its destroy effect (while other Deathrattle still yet resolve), Loot Hoarder still consider ALIVE? And because of THAT, it can still be affected from the resolution of the Deathrattle minions in (2), (3), and (4) ????

[@yani9o]

Mecha'Thun-Combo with the monstrosities: [Your turn]: - Experimenter is played - Coffin Crasher is played (1) - 2x monstrosities are played (2 & 3) ["End turn"-phase]: - Experimenters effect resolves, killing deathrattle minions (game considers them as dead from now on) - Game triggers deathrattles and puts them on the resolve stack with snapshot of THAT moment (Experimenter alive, the other minions dead) - (1) Coffin Crashers effect resolves, bringing mecha'thun on the field (4) - (2) first monstrosity effect resolves, dealing 5 damage to your minions - (3) second monstrosity effect resolves, dealing 5 damage to your minions - Experimenter and mecha'thun die (game considers both of them as dead from now on) - game triggers Mecha'Thuns Deathrattle (checking the if-statement if you will) and puts it on the resolve stack with snapshot of THAT moment (experimenter and mecha'thun dead) - (4) Mecha'thuns effect resolves and you win the game This combo: [Your turn]: - Experimenter is played - Voodoo-Doll is played (1) - Mecha'Thun is played (2) ["End Turn"-Phase]: - Experimenters effect resolves, killing deathrattle minions (game considers them as dead from now on) - Game triggers their deathrattles (and checking mecha'thuns if-statement) and puts them on the resolve stack with snapshot of THAT moment (Voodo-Doll and Mecha'Thun dead, but Experimenter is STILL ALIVE) - (1) Voodoo-Dolls effect resolves, killing Experimenter (considered as dead from THIS moment onwards) - (2) Mecha'Thuns effect resolves but doesn't win you the game, because Experimenter was still considered alive when the effect was triggered. Pretty sure the game handles deathrattles this way, and there is a difference in the order/time when the deathrattles were triggered and when mecha'thun came into the game. Another difference, why the first combo works and the second not (because you could say "well, then why did monstrosities aoe-damage affect mecha'thun?!"), is because of the difference of triggering and resolving. While mecha'thun wasn't on the field when their deathrattle was triggered, he was when their aoe (which affects ALL of your minions) resolved. Also, check the two times mecha'thuns deathrattle got triggered, once all minions are dead, with the second one the experimenter was still alive...

[@PitchBlack33]

My guess is that if it’s not a bug, it just doesn’t work because both deathrattle die at the end of the turn at the same time. So the game says that all are alive and then all are dead, and so mechathun doesn’t activate because all minions are alive when deathrattle triggers and then a second after it triggers, they all die. Although it could just be a bug also.

[@DLatryShankLi]

The reson for this is the inharit the bord state of the same moment of time (so if u have damege aoe befor sumone then damage the somon minnion is safe even if the somone dieas) have tesed wit explosiv sheep, nerubian egg, explosiv sheep with alredy a pre playd nerubian egg and the resolted in a 4/2 and 4/4

[@flapjack6784]

DLatryShankLi Arell the voodoo doll dies before the mechathun does, thus, it’s deathrattle would trigger, killing the reckless experimenter, leaving no minions for the mechathun’s deathrattle to trigger. However, it doesn’t. Which means either mecathun checks at the wrong time for a clear board, or the voodoo doll kills the minion at the wrong time. It’s a bugged interaction

[@goldnuggets10]

DLatryShankLi Arell your comment gave me autism

[@azrazelhananto]

@@flapjack6784 Deaths are done in phases, this means voodoo doesnt kill for a deathrattle but instead puts reckless into a second death phase and has it activate aftet the current one is finished.

[@DLatryShankLi]

@@flapjack6784 yes its a miss from the coding lilke u said becus of the inherient of the trigger check is when the minon that fors them to die still is on the board

[@SeisoYabai]

Its not a bug... it shouldn't work that way, but it definitely functions "as intended" by order. There are two "rounds" of interaction here. The Voodoo Doll and MechaThun trigger. The Voodoo Doll *resolves* alongside MechaThun resolving, and THEN the Reckless Experimenter dies. Effects have to resolve before they actually do anything. If the effect came before resolution, Counterspell and other secrets would trigger after the effect already went through. Yes, it seems like a bug because you expect the interaction to work. However, it is NOT a bug because each trigger is interacting as *it's supposed to.*

[@xaendark]

1. End of Turn: Experimenter ability resolves -> Doll & Mechathun die 2. Deathrattle from Doll and Mechathun go onto the stack 3. Deathrattle from doll resolves -> Doll ability goes onto the stack 4. Deathrattle form Mechathun resolves 5. Doll ability resolves -> Experimenter dies Technically it's not really a "stack" but rather a "pipe" ...

[@yayafreeskin]

Honestly, I still can't understand all the effects happening at once. It should all be triggers and stacks (like in magic or programming) if they hellfire and kill my two loot hoarders, I draw them as each ability resolves, I do not just draw two cards, I see each ability flash, make it's noise, I draw a card, then another card. Hellfire dealing three damage to everything makes sense, because there is no order of operations behind it. However the fact that the static buffs of "dies at end of turn" are on the c'thun and doll would imply, they would at best trigger at same time, make their checks, voodoo doll sees that it has to kill something, c'thun sees other things in play, so c'thun fizzles, which honestly it should, then voodoo doll kills it's target. If I was doing triage on this as a "bug" I would probably put it at sev 3, which at best would mean we have to provide more clarity in our customer facing documentation on how our stupid order of operations works... Which realistically HS should have done years ago.

[@infernalz1337]

Would a second voodoo doll attached to mecha'thun work? In the current bugged, unintended state I mean.

[@adRozi]

I think Mecha'thun dies at the same time as the voodoo, thats why the OTK doesnt work because Mecha'thun dies before the Reckless, so I think adding another voodoo doesn't help

[@PandoloFox]

Im not saying you are wrong here but a possible explanation could be that the reckless experimenter trigger the deaths before the deathrattle triggers. The reason that the other mechathun combo worked is because mechathun gets pulled out thanks to coffin crasher. Its not played after reckless experimenter but summoned by a deathrattle.

[@AkromaStrategy]

at 21:00 you see Reckless Experimenters effect kills the other 3 minions, which causes mecha'thun to die while Reckless experimenter is still alive, then after that voodoo doll's effect kills Reckless Experimenter. Either there was an intentional change to not have all deathrattles trigger simultaneously or the buff from voodoo doll/reckless experimenter is being treated with a higher/lower priority than they used to. Thanks Blizzard.

[@richardc6596]

Bomb warrior looks useful now

[@WhirlXbow]

if im not mistaking this is due to mechathune deathrattle only checking when it dies and not when it triggers. this would mean that when the mechathune dies the minions that make it die is still alive.

[@Solemhs]

6:33 this is so sad

[@johnj4471]

It's stupid how many people are claiming the bugs aren't bugs. The ASP bug that you showed people keep saying "the deathrattle was in play first thus it "goes off first"" even though Baron Rivendare does not make it trigger twice and is the same style effect.

[@user-hs7yp7xb8q]

Why OTK doesn't work as toast expected? Because Experimentor doesn't work as toast expected.The minions made to die at the end of the turn by Experimentor,don't die and make their deathrattle effects one after another in order they were played,but die (in any order) and are removed from the battlefield at once before they make their deathrattle effects in order they were played.This is the difference that we didn't need to tell in Crasher-Abomination OTK.

[@uberdragon111]

I don't see how people say this isn't a bug the previous mecha'thun priest combo had the reckless die to the deathrattle of the ticking abominations. After you played reckless, you had to play the coffin first to pull the mecha'thun, then you played the abominations so their deathrattle cleared board. The order mattered then it should now too. Edit: unless the coffin pulling mecha'thun changed order significantly.

[@TheIlluvatar619]

Hello, i had one more comment just to ask community something for this trial: -since the interaction queue change (when pyro was activate after beeing sumon) does it mean that now all the trigger from reckless happend in order, meaning vodoo dool is put under the queue, because reckless still need to activate mecathun ? so reckless "die" before mechathun but the priority check state that she is alive when mcathun trigger?

[@onboard3]

Dumbest OTK ever would be for you to remove the Galvanisers and rely on opponent playing Duskfallen Aviana every time :D "that wouldn't work.." "better than the first version" :)

[@badmoon710]

If anyone doesn’t think this is a bug then they never played mechathun priest pre rise of shadows If you played the rattles in the wrong order on old Mecha’thun priest then you’d lose. Which my point is, even tho they all go and die simultaneously , the deathrattles they have follow the order played. Toast is 100% right, this is a bug.

[@playermaxx1]

Making priest great again.

[@mixure9585]

“You want to see the animations here it is!” *slaps himself* 😂😂 20:55

[@FrevTM]

First, the deathrattle minions dies so mechathun dies with doll, then after that the doll kills the experimenter so mechathuns deathrattle *cant work*

[@arohk4415]

Not really a bug imo, The effect of Experimenter triggers at the end of your turn, killing both the Vodoo Doll AND Mechathun, their deathrattles tigger simultaniously while the Experimenter is still on the field so Mechathun does nothing.

[@ratedxstream4945]

Correct me if im wrong, but i believe that it happens in this order because the cards condition is an end of turn affect, and the game will simply enact the condition fully once the end turn is pressed, ignoring other conditions regardless of the order placed unless otherwise stated on the card. Meaning, if a card with a kill condition is placed first, it must enact the condition in its entirety before moving on to the condition of a victims deathrattle, which in this case is to kill a target card, and this is, of course, where the problem arrises. I think the card rotation desired is impossible because of the order of operations of each condition. Logivally speaking, the card cannot die prior to a victim of its own condition especially if its condition doesnt specify an order and simply kills all of its victims simultainiously. If you were to break it down into steps, based on the logic provided, it would first enact its own condition, then the condition of the victims, finally ending by enacting the condition resulting from one of the victims of the original condition. To put it simply, A kills B,C, and D triggering their respective deathrattles, then B kill A. Which, as you stated, is easily seen with functional eyes.

[@stopwathcing247]

You ever realize blind people cant play this game? But papa what blind person plays video games? There are some but not one could ever play hearthstone and be successful (yeah theres a lot of other games they also cant play but hearthstone is just one i really feel bad about.) I wonder if we could change that

[@TheThyrian]

Didn't know where else to put this but I'd appreciate some deck making advice. Looking to make a decent ladder deck with both Nozwhisker and Hiest Baron. What cards do you recommend?

[@henrymedeiros3955]

Technically the other minion dies after mechathun dies because it only dies after the puppet dies. There’s 2 death phases: 1) mechathun and voodoo doll die due to reckless experimentor. Then reckless experimentor dies cause voodoo doll dies. So wouldn’t that mean reckless experimentor is still on the board when mechathun dies?