DISGUSTING! I Can't Believe We Have To Talk About Brock Turner Again and More...

[@PhilipDeFranco]

@*($&)!@(*!)@*%(!@&% UGH. Garbage person.

[@finleythegolden2909]

Philip DeFranco yes

[@memes3874]

you don't have to talk about brock, you choose to. why not talk about something people actually care about?

[@jadnf]

Philip DeFranco *people

[@redbigun]

Which one? 😆 You've mentioned so many.

[@arcphlorhne]

DISCASTEN

[@kenziecullen4434]

Brock Turner will never take responsibility for his actions, and his dad, his attorneys, and the judge should be ashamed of themselves for enabling such behavior

[@Landrew0]

I blame the lawyer for preying on unrepentant criminals who are willing to pay for another kick at the cat.

[@Signal_20]

People should be required to take law courses or at least logic and critical thinking so rampant ignorance is knocked down a few notches. If you don't know the processes or what's involved in delivering a verdict, it may not be a good idea to pass judgement. Lest it makes you look ignorant. I've posted this elsewhere but here it is for you. If anybody has taken law, you'll see immediately why the judge passed the verdict the way he did, in the Turner case. We have 2 impaired individuals and it was not a case of if he perpetrated a crime. That's evident. Consent can not be established so that argument goes out the window. What the judge is concerned with are the social leveling mechanisms between 2 equally autonomous agents. How do you balance the harm created by the act with the harm of the punishment? The letter is what sealed the "victim's" stance. She told of how prone she was to indiscretion and of the circumstance leading up to the act and then her feelings immediately after the act. Her testimony stated that it wasn't until a few days later that remorse set in due to social anxiety. It was not the act that caused distress but the stigma and social convention. Her lawyer tried to establish distress under "adjustment disorder" because there's no way she'd qualify for a PTSD diagnosis and even then the diagnosis was shaky. So having little actual harm being done, how can one justify a heavy punishment that will do greater harm to another life. Missing 14 years out of the formative adult years will undoubtedly cripple Turner and set him on a path for recidivism and subversive behaviour. For what? Because a naive girl made bad choices succumbing to a crime of opportunity and felt bad afterwards? Rape covered under sexual assault and is reprehensible. It can do a lot of psychological damage. But not all sexual assault claims are the same or cause the same level of suffering. She had short term pain and remorse but failed to diagnose for long term suffering. So he should have short term pain and limited long term suffering as well. But he won't because of the biased nature of sexual offense cases. His punishment will be lasting with the registry and being slandered by Phil, youtube commentors and the majority of society. To understand the verdict, you need to understand the role of the judge and his responsibilities. Most people are not qualified to be judge and executioner, especially with such limited information and experience.

[@horvathbenedek3596]

Signal 20 Jesus fucking Christ, *THANK YOU!* At least you, of all people, understand how the justice system works. I like Phil, but he has a tendency to judge things based on public opinion and he lets himself influenced by social norms without using his head. Brock Turner did something stupid, but the whole thing is incredibly shady, and the testimony of the girl doesn't make it any clearer. I won't try to pretend to be a judge or a lawyer, I don't know what should happen here, but I remember saying from day 1 that there is no way he should be seriously punished for this; the whole thing is incredibly shaky on a moral basis, and we don't (can't) know the most improtant part - did the girl consent just before practically fainting from alcohol, or not.

[@Signal_20]

Horváth Benedek - The whole consent thing is moot nowadays because a precedence has been set that consent needs to be emphatic and continual. They abolished the idea of implied consent, so a yes, ex ante, doesn't mean anything anymore. So being passed out she couldn't be able to sustain the condition of consent. Dumb I know but it is what it is. I heard of one cases of fully consensual sex, that the court has deemed rape and both parties have to appeal the verdict because of this. I gotta find it again cus it's so bizarre. Imagine you both going at it having the best time. Then somebody else not liking it, called rape on you. Dragging you and your sweetheart through the legal ringer. Dumb dumb dumb!

[@LovelyAngel.]

Wow, just because consent is too difficult to comprehend to you guys it doesn't mean crimes are not being crimes... scary to think that you wander around without any supervision

[@BenWeigt]

Perhaps when they referred to a 'dumpster', they were referring to Brock Turner himself. That'd be accurate...

[@nervousbell3419]

I never hit a like button so fast in my entire life.

[@chayden153]

Ben Weigt probably!

[@kaichi23]

How dare you. Dumpsters are useful. Turner does not deserve to be compared to them.

[@wyatt2724]

If this was Reddit, I'd create hella accounts and buy hella gold Creds for both Ben, and August-Phoenix.

[@CHRISBLAKE20012]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJLOeKePpNSshrs Watch this video. I think you have simply been mislead by the terrible media coverage of this case.

[@Eraithia]

Dude the Dumpster was cleaner than he was

[@jayseehamm9761]

Eraith And also prolly didn’t rape anybody.

[@rhyscampbell3489]

Eraith just so you can see your likes

[@Arabletics1303]

I'm a guy and i like to to get shitfaced and have a good time every once in awhile, most of us do, but since i'm a guy i don't really have to worry about being violated if this happens, and i'd be pretty fucking pissed if i did have to. So can we stop jumping to the defense of our fellow man and address this issue with the strict intolerance it deserves. Because while you might have good sense and will never find yourself in this situation, when you write things like "but they were both drunk" or "but she left with him" or just generally try and play devil's advocate, a lesser man, which clearly theirs a fuck ton of, will end up dismissing this issue and the cycle continues. C'mon guys just be better for fuck sake. Don't be on the fence, be angry, and if you can't do that then stay silent.

[@elizathoiene7617]

Thank you! Have blacked out with male friends before who were drunk and all they did was give me water, help me home, and make sure I was safe. If people think drunk = rape is ok, they're horrible people.

[@16m49x3]

You do have to worry about being violated. There's more than enough fights, murders and robberies to go around. Not to mention worrying about being a shitty person to those around you. breaking things. Wasting your money. And to the person saying she blacked out with male friends. Obviously the word friends are the key words here. How bout only drinking heavily when you are with people that support you? And just drinking some damned water every now and then. And you won't have this problem Yes I have a bias against drunk people, they can never fail to piss me off.

[@Arabletics1303]

Haiiry Cake Sure there's always that but I'm talking about in more of a college campus or house party setting, in this day and age those are less of a concern in those situations than a girl being taken advantage of, and of course drink responsibly but it shouldn't be too much to ask not to be taken advantage of if things get out of hand. Not every drunk person is an asshole and they were probably an asshole sober but i definitely see where you're coming from.

[@16m49x3]

+Maverick13 At least in my country the culture around drinking is that you should be always drinking as much as possible all the time and act as stupid as possible because it's funny. It ends up with people pissing all over the toilet, puke on the floor, beer on the floor, people yelling so much it hurts your ears, stupid jokes that were never funny, apathic behavior... you name it. Everyone do all of these things. Nobody drinks Any water, nobody make sure to eat, nobody cares about anything. zzzz Yes yes, I'm biased.. it's still stupid

[@Deanritto]

Maverick13 I don't think I should ask not to be taken advantage of before I decide to drink. "Oh let's get drunk. But can you not take advantage of me while I'm drunk?"

[@therasheck]

If you can not say no, than you can not say yes. I have never understood the appeal of your partner not being 100% willing to have sex with you. Seduction is one thing, playing the back and forth game sure, but unless the person says "Let us have sex now" and I am equally willing, then no, no, not gonna happen. So yes if a woman is unconscious she can not say no, so she can not say yes... thus it is rape.

[@GSP-76]

Eshajori What if she wasn't unconscious when they started having sex? What if she was a willing participant and gave consent? Funny how no one ever asks more when it comes to this particular case...it's just easier to hate and condemn someone I guess. I find the entire premise of him walking away from a party with her and then raping her by a dumpster in close proximity to the party extremely suspect. What likely happened was that they were both consenting and the girl started passing out during the act. Once the other guys found them and started chasing Turner, it became a "different" situation for the girl and easier to come out unscathed by saying he raped her. Turner is guilty because he should have stopped regardless since the girl was extremely drunk and passed out but I don't buy this as a non-consenting rape at all....pretty sure the judge saw it the same way.

[@therasheck]

Eshajori I was being rather simplistic for the sake of the comment section, I did mention seduction, and what I call back and forth of two people who want to have sex but just don't come out and say it. But in the few encounters sexually that I had before getting married (over 20 years) I needed full consent. People got thrown in jail for not getting full consent when I as a young man in the 80's and 90's and I did not want to join them. But you do not need words for consent, actions work as well (use your imagination). In pre-established relationships, their established. your partner and you have a thing. My statement is meant as a hard wired guide line for those situations where your partner (or potential hook up) is really drunk or mentally incapable of giving consent, thus the "if they can not say no, then they can not say yes" if you want to hash out what those situations are then go for it. As for me that simple rule works. As far as safe words are concerned, I am just a simple country boy and have yet and do not seek a need for such things.

[@Eshajori]

@Gurvinder Parmar First of all, you should not not NOT be fooling around with someone who is so drunk/tired that they're going to pass out during intercourse! Secondly even if you're the creep who _does_ do that, you should stop the SECOND you sense they're fading off, or else you're literally screwing an unconscious person, and that's rape no matter how you cut it! Third... I've been drunk a lot. I consider myself a bit of an expert if we're being honest. Alcohol affects your judgement somewhat, but it doesn't make you a different person. I've been wasted when someone else who is wasted propositioned me, but my moral compass still exists so I put it to use. If you're going through with penetrating someone who is clearly belligerently drunk, you're a _bad person_ no matter how much the other party has "consented". Get her number. Sober up and go back to one of your places. Or, better yet, JUST. WALK. AWAY. I also know you have to try pretty hard to stay stiff when you're trashed, cause drunk dick is like a wet noodle. So I have serious doubt that he was as drunk as she was. Even if the entire (biased) scenario you've laid out is 100% true (I've considered it), Brock is still despicable for engaging in sex with someone who was too drunk, and then _continuing_ sex after she lost consciousness. Sure, if he was just as wasted and she agreed then that's a mark against her same as him, but she's the one that passed out, laying the responsibility on him to stop IMMEDIATELY. That you assume the girl is lying is rather telling... I also find the scenario of them leaving together with the intention to bang is plausible, but seeing as she was so drunk that she passed out, it's _just_ as plausible that she legitimately doesn't remember meeting him or giving consent. That means she was NOT in a state to provide it in the first place, which still means Rapist Brock Turner is a Rapist. He's not a little kid. He must have recognized that. He knew better and did it anyway.

[@GSP-76]

Eshajori Absolutely...I actually said that in a different response...he had no business trying to hook up with a girl so drunk...I can't remember now if he was also drunk (obviously not as bad as her)...I just don't find this situation to be a genuine rape incident like everyone is making it out to be.

[@Eshajori]

Dude, hooking up with someone that drunk _is_ rape! Just because the circumstances may have been different than what's socially perceived doesn't mean it's not rape. Did you actually read my response? I edited it for some clarity. It's actually pretty simple: Would this person be having sex with you under the same circumstances if they were sober? No? Then you shouldn't be having sex with them. It's not like this is some secret. Sorry, but we're talking the intrinsic foundations of morality here. The "he's just a kid" excuse stops flying for this stuff after they hit, like, eight years old. It's just like those horrid "Michigan Five" kids. Did they _intend_ to kill anyone? Maybe not. Were they old enough to understand that what they were doing _could_ kill someone? Absolutely. Did Brock _intend_ to rape anyone? Maybe not. Was he old enough to understand that what he was doing _could_ be rape? Absolutely. It makes no difference whatsoever. Hopes and dreams don't change the ramifications of your actions. If you make a conscious choice, you should be charged for it.

[@DotGamesLive]

My heart breaks when I see someone do something so cruel to an animal like that. As for the rapist, he can try and spin his story however he wants, it falls apart when he suggests the sex was consentual when she's FUCKING UNCONCIOUS.

[@GothicOtaku33]

Lol right, it's like a thief saying you didn't say no to them stealing your shit while you were asleep in your own home.. like wtf.

[@86Corvus]

it could have been if she consented prior to passing out. Turner was also drunk to the point that he might not have been able to tell if she was out or just had her eyes closed. People are responsible for their decisions when drunk therefor can give consent when drunk. Its his word against the automatic state prosecution because as faar as i remember she was told she was raped by teh staff in hosspital and she cant remember what happened including whether she consented. I also think this might be why the court gave him a lighter sentence, because it was passed on a hunch and under public pressure where people like you think they know everything they need to by reading some headline and never ponder the actual possibilities of what happened and what is the evidence.

[@andhikabayutrimulya5801]

they have two witness, and that drunk excuse is invalid since he ran away when confronted by the witness

[@alexandriacandler2877]

86Corvus if he was able to run away he wasn’t drunk enough to not know what he was doing

[@ahem8013]

86Corvus he tried to run away when he got caught, he knew what he was doing was a crime and morally wrong

[@AllyLai]

'this is not a crime'.........i have no words

[@rjc0234]

becuse it wasn't a bin, it was a 3 sided waste area.... what a utter joke to nitpick such a fact

[@davinthetoothgamer4872]

It would be a crime if my blackass did it. I would be known as " David Behind the dumpster RAPISTS!"

[@tonyprince1632]

Ally Lai If it was a woman would would’ve done what Brock turner would’ve done she wouldn’t have even gotten in trouble and nobody would’ve cared. Why does the average female rapist only do 3-5 years in prison? Why aren’t you guys complaining about that?

[@DexDex000]

Tony Prince that’s obviously an issue was well but it has nothing to do with that story

[@racingginger3147]

bigbenhoward thats not even a remotely close comparison

[@Lady_Crispr]

It blows my mind that people still think they can put up videos of them abusing animals and get away with it. The internet can always find you. Always.

[@BadgerCheese94]

I'm glad they post it though, cuz then they can get caught. What's awful is how many are abusing animals and no one knows about it :/

[@sponge2541]

Picket Pants really people havnt found me yet

[@Lady_Crispr]

Shining Darkness Did you fail second grade reading comprehension? I clearly said I don't get why they post videos because that's how the internet finds you. So, go make your own sandwich troll.

[@RoseMagpie]

As a victim myself this story angers me so much. No matter what you cannot justify rape. So what if his life is different now? He ruined that woman's life and mentsl state forever. All he got was 3 months! But what because his parents are rich and he "had potential" he should get to go on with his life. No. Fuck him. He made his choice when he entered someone's body against their will

[@Apr1lSk1es]

Coudnt have said it better.

[@Andrius971]

Yea, i can't decide if i should find that excuse funny or sad. Its like saying "But i killed that person in 1 minute, you would not jail me 10 years for something that was done in a minute!"

[@RoseMagpie]

Exactly! It was only 1 person I murdered and it only took a couple minutes so putting me away for life and ruining my life for a couple mins of fun isnt right People like this need to take a second to realise that it is literally entering someones body. That's so personal. How would that prick feel if someone had done him up the ass in reversed rolls bet his parents would be pushing to have the guy/girl in jail for life

[@randomstuff7962]

Andrius Butikis 1+ And I will add on it, "Oh I murdered the guy in his living room, not his bathroom"

[@RoseMagpie]

Random Stuff exactly! It was his living room not bathroom so it's not like I tried to hide it. Curtains were open

[@Dhilan100]

How does one rape a woman and then only get 6 months jail time? I'm still puzzled by that fact.

[@bdog-it4701]

KingCrowZ because assault is not rape.

[@Real_SkyRipper]

no proof, how do you know he rape her? she could have said yes, she passes out during sex, how is that his fault? so easy to acuse someone

[@danniinnab]

Lol ask bill clinton

[@zaxpax4554]

Do you know how the justice system works? Maybe instead of getting emotional people educate themselves on what happens behind the scenes. Did you pay attention to the "good behavior" part? Also, what good would letting a rapist rot in prison do when he gets free food, a job and a place to stay at OUR expense? His life is already ruined because now no job in the real world is going to hire a convicted rapist. Only jobs that will are equivalent to what illegal immigrants would pick. He ruined someone else's life, thus he already ruined his own life. Prison is a luxury, the real world becomes his hell.

[@Real_SkyRipper]

then what if he was the one passing out? would you accuse the woman of rape? i doubt it, 100% doubt it, instead of putting people in prison and throwing away the key how about trying to fix them? everyone who gets out of prison end up worse than they were that's why crime never goes down, anyway they were both kids and drunk they were stupid to get in that position, parents should teach kids to never drink to the point you can pass out

[@yotsubatoes]

Btw, the guy who threw the cat has now been arrested

[@TinaNKathy1]

Blanca Ruan hell yeah

[@Heisquareman]

Oooo yessss. Do you have a link to the report?

[@crystalnguyen2071]

^^^

[@chayden153]

Blanca Ruan Thank god!

[@Azotadeth]

Good news. Hopefully they'll get something a bit more scary than a slap on the wrist.

[@icedcoldkilla]

If it was consensual, he wouldn't have ran.

[@21bigwilly]

Have you ever read To Kill A Mockingbird? Not that I disagree with you, just saying that it isn’t so black and white.

[@VanOnline]

If he ran why didn't the girl run too? Oh yeah, cause she was unconscious. Sometimes it can be pretty black and white.

[@flamegrazer762]

awesomeguywill what does To Kill a Mocking Bird have to do with this?

[@cassandra1234ization]

To Kill a Mocking Bird has something to do with everything. Every life problem can be solved by To Kill a Mocking Bird I hear.

[@21bigwilly]

MTG Enthusiast In this situation it was 100% black and white. I even said I didn’t disagree. I’m just saying that the “if he was innocent he wouldn’t have run” mentality shouldn’t always be applied.

[@meaning1875]

The only thing I couldn't stop thinking of is that poor woman being re-traumatized all over again

[@ballerrabbid9105]

GEX Have you read her letter to Turner? She wrote it to him last year. It's horrific what she went through, I can only imagine how terrible it will be for her now it's getting brought back into a court room because her rapist doesn't like the wording used in his conviction.

[@chayden153]

Me too, that poor woman

[@yourboieb4477]

Regarding the cat situation, I think the person videotaping this should be held responsible as well. Instead of being a grown mature person and stopping this person from throwing the cat, they decided to be a garbage person and film it. They are just as responsible since they knew what this guy holding the cat was going to do, but did jack shit to stop it.

[@grahvis]

So what is the significant difference between a dumster and a three sided trash enclosure? Don't both have connotations of being rubbish containers?

[@michellelehky2374]

Dumpster goes inside the enclosure.

[@misteryman526]

So, if I walk up to Brock Turner and stab him in the heart, that's like, 60 seconds out of my 50 years of otherwise law-abiding life, so it shouldn't count for anything, right?

[@tobago3679]

Depends if you are doing it near a dumpster or in plain sight apparently.

[@CHRISBLAKE20012]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJLOeKePpNSshrs Check out this video. Once you do, reconcile this with the fact that Brock turner is most likely innocent, and that the alleged victim was most likely awake and functioning. In other words, this looks like a consensual hookup, and that it was a wrongful conviction.

[@TheFindingLight]

Any other Canadian sitting here like "Uhhhmmm....Ontario is fucking huge???? Ooooh wait.....Ontario, California. Got it."

[@jessicacampbell9756]

Literally me

[@Wendigo004]

I'm a Canadian from Ontario. Heyo!

[@TheFindingLight]

Hi-dee-ho neighbouroony!!!

[@johnsmith-qz1eg]

Cali ? Really that makes it alot easier

[@jonnie6988]

Low key almost started crying when you talked about the cat. It's really dumb that it bothers me so much, but it's just really sad when people do such horrible things to anything that can't defend itself. Cats are often villified, but if you're good to them they'll be good to you. They just don't automatically love you like dogs do.

[@ginniemess]

Cats are amazing. Hope that kid gets what he deserved.

[@hyunii5891]

Yeesss! It's sad that people often dismiss cats as just "assholes", when in fact they love you unconditionally as much as dogs do, they just have different ways of showing their love.

[@tarafarmer86]

Have you ever seen Earthlings? Talk about animal cruelty 😢

[@PseudoOrthaNym]

shutupjonnie Dogs get abused too, not just cats. In some countries they are treated like dirt and left to suffer. It’s even more tragic when you consider we’ve incapacitated them by making them too trusting and loving.

[@atheris1641]

Danni Reads When did she say only cats got abused....?

[@Quarksi]

To the people upset that the 16 yearold boy who horrifically abused that cat is exposed all over social media, suck it up. Does someone deserve to have their privacy destroyed after committing just 1 horrific and senseless act? ABSOLUTELY. It's about time everyone, adults and kids alike wake up and realize that actions have consequences. You don't get to injure and maim things and expect the public to protect you because it was your "first time".

[@freg35]

He needs help. He obviously doesn´t understand that what he did was wrong. His life should not be destroyed.

[@Quarksi]

"he obviously doesn't understand" How do you know that? simply because of his age? Have you forgotten last month the 11-16 yearolds that threw boulders on the freeway overpass? At this age you are completely aware of what your'e doing, you just don't give a shit and you don't expect to get in trouble for it. There isn't some magical awakening between 16 and two years later at 18 that people go through.

[@freg35]

If what you say it´s true, then that´s why he needs help. He can become a better person in the future, not just another one filling a cell in a prison.

[@izzyd885]

Future NFL player.

[@ZuzuPie]

Theres also a video of him and his friends assaulting a man that was on the ground

[@fringehouse]

In regards to the Cat Chucker, this vid is a little out-dated as of yesterday 12/4. The Cat Chucker was captured by Ontario PD (after attempting to run and being tackled) and is in custody and being charged for Felony Animal Abuse. The cat is being cared for at a vet hospital and is in good condition. (source: Ontario Police Dept. twitter). edit: some phrasing and details

[@tiskky7385]

thank you for the update, glad the cat is ok.

[@atheris1641]

Thanks

[@MeatPopsycle]

Is there any possibility that someone can be found guilty again during an appeal and receive a more severs punishment than what was originally handed to them?

[@MACupBananas]

Oh let's HOPE SO!! This is a Supreme idea !

[@Guido666mwm]

Yes

[@puertoricannani]

Um, no not really. Our appeals process does not work like that haha. His conviction can either be reversed reaffirmed (meaning he still has to follow through with sentence given, registering as a sex offender), or remanded for a new trial. So theoretically yes, he can be found guilty again and be given a more severe punishment but only if his appeal is granted and he is given a new trial.

[@tanvi9877]

Chiki Nani I just hate to think what the victim will will go through in any of these scenarios

[@MeatPopsycle]

I don't understand how the hell this was allowed to happen in the first place.

[@GracefulAlien]

If she can't say "yes" It's a NO

[@meganthefencer694]

Azia Evans exactly!!

[@GracefulAlien]

swaffizzyTV you still get consent before you do

[@aurumarma5711]

The internet does not mess around when they choose to find you. Blurry still image with no background detail? No problem, 24 hours tops.

[@delilahdude3041]

This is why I love the internet so much 👊

[@Jess-ew3tm]

Kyle D, someones triggered

[@c0c0nutm1lk4]

Honestly that is bullshit. He should've gotten the 14 years in the first place. Rape is just cruel and i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, the mental trama that rape leaves on a person is terrible, and hearing that he was released makes me sick to my stomach

[@thetoongrump9801]

“Um, excuse me. I know I just stabbed a man to death and got a slap on the wrist for it, but can I also get my knife back?” This is the Brock Turner situation in a nutshell

[@curiouslytot1950]

To the people complaining about the kitten: 1) Animal cruelty is a marker for possible child abuse or mental illness. It is also commonly seen in the history of serial killers and sociopaths... so yes it is important. 2)It’s a baby animal that is defenseless so of course people are up in arms. Empathy towards baby animals is part of most people’s nature(except in factory farms? Either way) 3) In a world that is so unjust, saving that kitten and others that could be a victim is a small victory.

[@ashleysartattack5600]

Curiously Tot yes to all of this.

[@NihilisticGoliath]

"I don't want to spoil anything for people who haven't watched House of Cards... But he DOES DIE IN THE BOOKS." Thanks for lookin' out, Phil. ;)

[@TheEternalDreamers]

Give Brock turner a new trial and put him in jail for 14 years

[@todbreakingbadisok9350]

he can not be tried for the same crime twice due to double jeopardy.

[@TheEternalDreamers]

tod breakingbadisok except that if his appeal is accepted for A new trial and he is convicted again, he can be given a longer, stronger sentence

[@Guyver2391]

The Eternal Dreamers too short in my opinion.

[@Guyver2391]

The Eternal Dreamers one can only hope, different judge is what I hope for.

[@luisandresnasser8270]

There is a terrible crisis going on in Honduras right now but there is little/biased coverage by the international media. Please like this so Phil can see and he can cover the story to spread awareness!

[@Chris-sj5np]

Luis Andres Nasser no one is going to cover it because no one cares, unless an American dies they'll just shrug it off

[@BADCoDGAMER]

Update on the cat! I live in ontario and this guy got arrested today at a neighboring city!

[@samrudi3761]

So Brock Turner's and Trump's lawyers both claim that their clients have indeed done the actions they're accused of but that the actions aren't crimes. What in the fuck is going on?!?!?!

[@TheCrispAlien]

My guess is they're getting paid a lot.

[@cheeseburgersuperior1874]

A lawyer (private or public) must defend their clients no matter what of the degree of crime is commited. It is not for the money, it is the law for the lawyers to follow. If he or she does not follow, he or she will be disbarred - never to practice law ever again. Do some research before posting, please.

[@Nionivek]

As well remember that Rape is not the crime of having sex with a woman. Their argument is "Yes he did have sex with the woman, but it was consensual", and the facts of the case really do suggest that it was the case, at least enough to work in a court room.

[@izraelavila769]

Nionivek what about the facts of the case suggest that what Brock did was consensual

[@adribautista3593]

Izrael Avila the facts dont suggest it but the lawyers wilm argue it anyway.

[@xKumei]

"I don't want to tell you why she is important to avoid spoilers." "Also, the main character dies in the book."

[@JonathanLopez-xn7lm]

Matt 😂😂😂

[@joywalsh6150]

Brock-the-rapist-turner story had me sitting watching saying what? What? WHAT?? Just.... just.... how?!

[@tonyprince1632]

Joy Walsh If it was a woman would would’ve done what Brock turner would’ve done she wouldn’t have even gotten in trouble and nobody would’ve cared. Why does the average female rapist only do 3-5 years in prison? Why aren’t you guys complaining about that?

[@jasoncase9481]

Because it's a double standard and with the whole the man is tough the whole he didn't get raped and if he did he's not a victim because the woman the offender is a babe.

[@Bluntteh]

The fact his sentence was so light means someone was fucking paid off and that disgusts me

[@nervous6533]

I wish the person of the year was either Hyeonse Lee or Yeonmi Park. They are 2 girls that escape North Korea (at different times) and they are speaking out about what they went through.

[@bertcompton]

unicornsani2003 what about the soldier that escaped recently?

[@clyderobertsjr7113]

It would be great if they affected the media more and more people knew about them

[@justaguy9041]

North Korea sees things like that as disrespect and wants to take action against it that's typically why they don't.

[@Cagey7531]

What a try hard spastic.

[@shawn4116]

Death From Above and Below may I ask how?

[@villanellepollastri8894]

I remember when I tried to report my rape, I had fuck all evidence and the cops, THE COPS, told me I shouldn't report it BC the guy would just come after me and try to kill me. I've been in a living death since. Ive walked past him a few times on my way to uni. So many rapists get away with it. So many guys don't speak about being raped. If you have been raped know that Im here for you, you are not damaged goods, you are worthy, and I love you. Xoxox

[@alrightlosangeles2997]

j w I’m so sorry to hear that, if it’s true or not no one deserves it.

[@crystalnguyen2071]

I'm sorry for what you went through. It's true, 99% of men in the U.S. never go to jail for rape. The 1% that do are like Brock Turner, who served half of his sentence. The justice system is fucked

[@jackbauer408]

Crystal Nguyen I’m sure that’s nowhere near true.

[@barnabuscollins8800]

Crystal Nguyen - "99% of men in the U.S. never go to jail for rape" Would you care to provide even one piece of evidence this gross lie is even remotely accurate?

[@alextran3147]

Crystal Nguyen I'm ashamed that a fellow Vietnamese person would put such a stupid bs statistic smdh

[@BumLuck]

Some lawyers have absolutely no shame. They'll say goddamn anything for money.

[@tristancooper3072]

At the age of 12 I was witness to the death of a cat in my school. Kids my age saw a stray cat running around and stoned it to death. They chased it around for at least 15 minutes, probably the most disgusting and terrible thing I've ever seen. Literally tried to fight off like 15-20 kids while looking back and seeing how the cat lost an eye after a kid threw a rock that hit it's head. Cried for a half hour afterwards and was called a wimp. Just shows how fucked up the world is.

[@lileehj]

Tristan Cooper wimp

[@sirmuffincat6630]

Nothing pisses me off more than people picking fights with people/things that stand no chance against them. I hope every one of those kids get cancer and die slowly. I know that sounds petty and barbaric, but that's how I feel.

[@countreekidd]

When you see other predatory animals "playing" with those beneath them in the food chain, do you shed a tear? I don't, but I might root for the little guy to get away.

[@moonstonepearl21]

Those who harm and torture animals for no good reason besides for "the fun of it" are some of the sickest people in existence. These are often very emotional disturbed people who besides needing to get in massive legal trouble for harming creatures who can't defend themselves, but they need psychological help. This seems to be a younger person, and people who harm animals when they are younger move on to bigger and better crimes when they get older. If they don't get some help now, they'll often be your future severe child and spousal abusers and serial killers.

[@moonstonepearl21]

Anthony It's jut the way I phrased it. You know what I mean. Besides, there is a valid reason for harming an animal: for survival like food or self defense. Torturing them never has any valid reason.

[@sydneyhensley4444]

Thank you to the two witnesses that turned Brock Turner in. Thank you guys for advocating for the victim who could not, at the time, advocate for herself.

[@liamscott1905]

The swedes fabricated a story where they’re the heroes and you lot fell for it hook, line and sinker.

[@Lex-jj7hb]

Moral depravity and callousness DEFINITELY wasn't already implied by the fact that Brock Turner raped a girl. She was found next to something that contained trash, but dumpster is an ICKY word. Poor wittle Brocky can't handle all this trauma, he's NEVER commited a crime. Rape isn't a crime if it's in a clean place, right?

[@tonyprince1632]

Alexis Ford If it was a woman would would’ve done what Brock turner would’ve done she wouldn’t have even gotten in trouble and nobody would’ve cared. Why does the average female rapist only do 3-5 years in prison? Why aren’t you guys complaining about that?

[@jasoncase9481]

@@tonyprince1632Likely double standard same as if it's a guy pedophile no doubt outrage except if a gorgeous woman is the pedophile no outrage because the minor guy had sex with a adult babe so he isn't viewed as a victim instead benefiting from the illegal action.

[@sunniestbro1064]

"what happened wasn't a crime. It happened but wasn't anywhere close to a crime." Last time I checked, rape was still illegal.

[@grmpyland]

When a rapist dare apply for an appeal, if you think taking away someone's human right by raping while he/she is unconscious does that make you deserving of any? his sentence is disgustingly short and his father is something, does being a parent blind you from what is right or wrong. GIRL if my FUCKING SON DOES THIS I WANT HIM IN JAIL, i'd be ashamed for raising some that doesn't have the decency and respect. CONSENT IS EVERYTHING! Even a sex after marriage needs consent! nfhsansjbvuygasncj

[@Michael-dh2sw]

He didn`t rape her. You could bother to look up the case and try to see abit of the nuance needed in the criminal justice system. Or you could join the screeching mob with the pitchforks. Your choice.

[@GildedOnyx]

Kristin C everyone is entitled to their rights and due processes. whether you like it or not, he has the right to appeal it. it is there for a reason, to protect the truly innocent from mistakes.

[@PlumbPitiful]

Serial killers usually begin by abusing animals.

[@metalheadshark]

PlumbPitiful it's a trait of sociopathy, so yes

[@dseanthekhan]

PlumbPitiful Actually killing then

[@peachgirlx]

Hannah sight your source, or kindly quiet down.

[@hannahewing5242]

Brock Turner went to my school in Ohio. His name hung on plaques on the wall until THIS SCHOOL YEAR. Let's not forget about my guidance counselor who painted him as an innocent man. Our school still hasn't talked about it or even talked about rape.

[@ecap6776]

why would they? they didnt have anything to do with him raping that girl.

[@endless3cho]

Well usually when it's a subject that's going to be a source of gossip around the entire school. Since it's been in the news and local news always brings up local info about the person, schools usually take the time to educate the students about the issue. They don't need to go into his story, but the do usually like to bring up crisis info and ways to seek help/info.

[@hannahewing5242]

Because normally when anything else has happened to our school, especially when it’s on international news, it should be talked about. We have never even covered he subject of rape at all/the possibility of rape. We’ve talked about everything else from literal murder to abstinence but not rape awareness. He’s still literally praised by the teachers and staff at our school it’s real bullshit

[@D.man140]

Phil: I don't want to spoil Also Phil: he dies in the book

[@riimumaisema]

i dont understand how trump is NOT the person of the year. like him or hate him you cant deny he has been the most influential, the most controversial, the most talked-about subject this year

[@riimumaisema]

like i said, your opinion on him doesnt matter. you cant deny anything what i said. and person of the year clearly doesnt equal endorsement otherwise kim jong-un wouldnt be a nominee

[@yuuka926]

in 1938....also nominated person of the century.

[@justgosee]

I'm all for a re-trial. Let's give him the 30 years he deserves.

[@evilkingstanley]

Unfortunately he's not even asking for a retrial. He's just pushing for more and asking that his sex offender status be dropped.

[@justgosee]

I get it.. I'm just saying a re-trial would be awesome. (He's not getting that sex offender off his record no matter what he does)...

[@Xr3solveXofXoneX]

I couldn’t even get out of a SPEEDING ticket, let alone 3 counts of RAPE. Its privilege people like this that make living very shitty for the ones that couldn’t afford the finer things. I bet if Turner’s victim could afford the same legal team, he would get the maximum sentence. Not that it takes a legal degree to see that it was still RAPE. I fear that money and power is wasted on the wicked.

[@ryoyamada8579]

“Yes,he did rape a woman, but that’s not a crime is it?” What kind of fuck up law did this lawyer studied?

[@aisham5485]

As an Arab i really hope the crown prince of Saudi gets this one. ONLY because I want people to see that his changes will have the support of the west, that he is taking a step in the right direction and that the criticisms from the men (who dont support women driving) in his country would be drowned out by his success

[@shannonreid2497]

I hope he gets it too. People in the West need to take a step back and look at what's going on in the rest of the world more often.

[@jacklandon9933]

Is it possible, since it is Brock's own lawyers re-opening it, that a new court could go, "You know, you are right. Mistakes were made. 30 years."?

[@WaterCamelz]

I dont know how those lawyers could bring themselves to defend that thing.

[@Krushak8888]

Ben Buckreis money and its their job im sure they know hes wrong but ya know... its like a public defender having to defend a known murderer

[@LazyCreepypasta]

Ben Buckreis when you're being paid thousands to defend someone your moral integrity goes away. If I was a lawyer I'd have some honor and would choose not to defend someone who's obviously guilty

[@henchmanc]

No name has ever been uttered in the history of media more than the name Trump has in the last 12 months. Love him or hate him, it cannot be denied.

[@ZAHTAE33]

henchmanc you right tho

[@shanemjn]

Can we get a NSFW warning before you talk about tax reform, I now have to hide my raging erection at work

[@stevenflores7405]

Koolaid Man Who isn't?

[@shanemjn]

Koolaid Man I'm English, I don't care about American tax reform. I believe the subtle nuance of my comment was lost on you.

[@UNIT522]

I wish there was a REAL LIFE punisher ........

[@dannyc.2571]

UNIT #522 was just thinking the same thing

[@thisisridiculous337]

It's so weird that Phil was covering a story only referring to the subject by his middle and last name, "Brock Turner" instead of "Rapist Brock Turner", Phil who does that.

[@Ajin718]

They should accept his appeal, retry in court and give him the whole 14 years no probation.

[@jessemedina8551]

randyjoelmedina you cannot be retried for something youve been convicted of

[@mandysimms4184]

No wonder the kid did what he did if the father wrote that totally offensive inpact statement abput HOW his son raped a passed out women.

[@anneelizabeth6764]

Not only is this a shitty person, this is actually potential serial killer behavior. A TON of murderers first kill animals to satisfy their rage, bet then they get used to it just like any kind of drug, and need a bigger rush. This man needs to be stopped.

[@eliascrooker7773]

Phil is being a white knight for not giving more information out about him. It's not even logical to withhold his name tbh... in my mind that's way more dangerous.

[@MrHighFRUCTOSE]

How could Trump possibly not be person of the year? EVERYONE is talking about him 24/7

[@danielyoung6778]

Personally I'd go with the Saudi Arabian prince because I feel his action's will have the most long term positive influence and him being named man of the year could help bring some of the more pragmatic Saudi Arabians over to his side

[@notvengeful]

The me too movement should be the thing of the year, because it brought light to such a serious topic/issue that many women and men go through potentially daily. It also demonstrates the power struggle of those of Hollywood who use their power to violate the innocent.

[@AMSayer86]

Hello fren

[@Jim-so3zm]

TheVengefulDonut Except that it has also led to the mere act of flirtation being designated as serious sexual assault and a witch hunt campaign against men.

[@notvengeful]

Jim but this movement still influenced many people to speak up -even if some of those who have are lying pieces of shit-

[@notvengeful]

Credit to Antru for this reply xdddd

[@16m49x3]

The weirdest thing about the metoo movement is that it has proven one thing, and one thing only. That you can just tell people when someone is being a shit-head and things will be dealt with. I thought that was obvious already though...

[@laurenblahblah8554]

Honestly how can you get off SO easily and STILL try to game the system even harder? I’m honestly so confused by Brock Turner and the audacity he and his family have to keep doing this stupid garbage.

[@beardedemperor]

Lauren Blahblah this is being held in the California Court of Appeal. That court can only try questions of law, not fact and even if there was an error of law the judgement will stand unless there was also prejudice. If there is both error and prejudice the case goes back to trial. Where the case hinges on a question if law (e.g. is an alligator a 'deadly weapon') this might effectively determine the outcome. This case, however, would seem to hinge on a question of fact (did #$!@&$# McGee rape the victim, not whether having sex with an unconscious person is rape) so there would be a new trial. All of this would be harrowing for the victim, but where I am going is that at a new trial, a jury may still find him guilty despite the fact it wasn't behind a dumpster (because, duh) and the judge could say "Sweet. By the way, 6 months? That's bullshit. I'm raising the sentence to the legal maximum. Enjoy jail, rich boy."

[@maram1378]

This makes me so mad! That girl will be traumatised for the rest of her life and he just served 3 months and is still complaining wtf is wrong with these people!

[@NectarFromARose]

it doesn't matter if the cat will survive - there is a proven correlation between animal abuse and eventual abuse against people or even darker crimes. I hope this kid is arrested and gets the help he needs.

[@rhaenyrareigns2200]

Reminds me of Joffrey Baratheon character from a novel by George R. R. Martin. "Joffrey … I remember once, this kitchen cat … the cooks were wont to feed her scraps and fish heads. One told the boy that she had kittens in her belly, thinking he might want one. Joffrey opened up the poor thing with a dagger to see if it were true. When he found the kittens, he brought them to show to his father. Robert hit the boy so hard I thought he’d killed him." - Davos VI, Chapter 63, 'A Storm of Swords'.

[@thereeldeelsteel]

"I don't wanna spoil the show for anyone who hasn't seen it...but in the book, Frank Underwood dies"

[@ashismyname21]

Can someone get a HARSHER sentence handed down if they appeal & it's unsuccessful? This is the ONLY possible silver lining

[@uristthedwarf7833]

Trashley Fellers That's sounds a little dictatorish.

[@fredfredburgerfredburgian]

Trashley Fellers No. That would be double jeopardy. And not the kind with Alex Tribec

[@Mason32800]

The cat dude is probably going to go to jail for longer than Brock Turner did... Just wanted to acknowledge that.

[@killertruth186]

He doesn't even had proof of consent to show. If he was Innocent, then he wouldn't run away.

[@CommanderWaddles]

Wait, how do you get proof of consent though? Some people aren't cool with filming lol. Yuup

[@killertruth186]

Commander Waddles True, it can be done on a note saying that she consent. But like you said most people would see it against the law.

[@liamscott1905]

He didn’t run away

[@isoutoforbit]

Was anyone else hoping with the cat story Phil was waiting for the moment to reveal it was fake? God damn why wasn't it fake..

[@youboring4219]

Also why the fuck would Brock turner run if he wasn't guilty of rape and just having sex

[@infintiyward]

Today is a sad day for dumpsters. Dumpsters have been deemed so vile, even rapists are rejecting them to save their reputation.

[@aura-alchemist]

Next time can you make it clear that it's Ontario, California and not Ontario, Canada. Was ready to be on the lookout for that guy but found out later that it wasn't even in this country.

[@guruzini1971]

you were going to keep an eye out over 400k square miles? damn.

[@aura-alchemist]

GURU ZINI Damn straight. No one hurts a poor cat like that on my watch.

[@aura-alchemist]

Andrea Robyn That's where I figured it out. Was just confused when he said Ontario.

[@guruzini1971]

you are my kinda lookout

[@jeffmyra3591]

What pisses me off is if a kid commits a crime voluntarily, then they should be charged like an adult and they should not have the right to have their identity hidden

[@shroomyesc]

"20 minutes of action" shooting someone is under a second of action and stabbing someone in the chest is like maybe 1-2 seconds of action, so they must be even more excusable!

[@FlyingWonderGirl]

Clearly his father has been an awful example to him as his son violates someone and he calls it getting some “action”

[@liamscott1905]

A consensual dry humping isn’t the same as shooting or stabbing someone.

[@dericaaaaaa]

I love that in 2017, rapists can appeal their crime, even though it was clearly rape and it is called "no where close to a crime" by a legal team. What the hell has this world come to?

[@mgelliott86]

Derica Walker kinda makes me wish the punisher was a real person, he finds proof of crime, he kills the bad guy

[@crocsqueen1474]

I am so angry. I can't imagine what that young woman is going through. Now Brock Turner's victim has to deal with this all again.

[@SenorWicho]

I think people really need to understand that being TIMES person of the year just means that they influenced the world the most that year for better or for worse. It’s not saying they’re the best, or greatest in any way.

[@winston.sullivan]

To all my fellow Canadians watching this video: Ontario is a city in California. The cat thrower is from California, not Canada.

[@sacredmoose7246]

Winston Sullivan Thank you for this

[@xxmuyaxx]

I'm surprised how many ppl think the cat abusing is not that much of a deal. People harm little helpless creatures like cats and dogs tend to move on to harm human after, it takes special kind of cruelty to harm such completely harmless thing to you. I think whoever does this kind of shit needs serious time in hospital.

[@pandabeats6231]

Some people just don't care and show no sympathy for the animal. That's understandable. But if they try to justify the behavior of the person who is hurting the animal that is just next level garbage.

[@xxmuyaxx]

Jonathon Roth goo.gl/images/H5rNHK

[@oscarchampion5842]

So he thinks he was sentenced unfairly? Let’s try another trial with a different judge and see how that turns out

[@ItsmaddiehbuBlogspot]

I'm two minutes in and I'm actually sitting SCREAMING I'M SO FURIOUS

[@savannahstorme8789]

ItsMaddiehbu your not alone in this!

[@Cybermat47]

Remember those guys with AR-15s who were hanging out around Brock Turner’s house, with signs saying “will I get 6 months if I rape Brock?” We need those guys back.

[@Cybermat47]

Vislow when the wrong is happening to a rapist who got away with it... I’m not losing any sleep over it.

[@arielwright5131]

Damn....I don’t know the law well but I hope that judge can go back, recant his sentence, then turn around and give him 14 years in jail!!!!!! That asshole should rot in jail. Not sure what is up with our “judicial” system lately but the fuckers who need life sentences in jail are the ones going free..... makes me sad for the victims

[@TheBmann10]

Its not that the system is screwed up, plenty of people get what they deserve, its just the mistakes that get attention.

[@kaygarcia3990]

Most recent updates: The Kitty is alive and the stupid boy got arrested.

[@jjenk911]

Nice. Thanks for the update :)

[@QueenFairyBread]

Ty for posting this! I'm a little more happy now.

[@Brainhorn]

Phil, there is nothing irrational about a fear of black holes. I can name some irrational fears I've seen. Butterflies. Dogs. My sisters ex-boyfriend had a crippling fear of llamas. Those are irrational. Being afraid of black holes is absolutely rational.

[@MrWaffel]

I mean... I would consider a fear of llamas more rational than a fear of black holes.

[@ShelfyAndCo]

Being afraid of dogs is not irrational, do you know how many people are killed by dogs each year? Thousands

[@Brainhorn]

ShelfyAndCo I don't know about the rest of the world but I know in the US it's about 20. MrWaffelLP Fair enough, but I'm looking at it on a bigger scale. Sure, it's a low chance you'll be killed by either. But if you're killed by a black hole, so is everyone else.

[@CrutonSan]

Dogs are a normal phobia. Dogs of all shapes and sizes have bitten many people. They are in our immediate environment. Have you seen any of the injuries German Shepherds are capable of inflicting? And llamas can be huge assholes. However, I agree with the butterfly one, moths are on the same level. I knew a girl in high school with a fear of dark soda. Literally mortified by it. Couldn’t even say the names of the sodas (Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, Coca-Cola, etc). She was messing around and took my jacket one time, so I chased her through the school with a can of soda until she gave it back.

[@TheGrinningViking]

Brock Turner is a monster. Brock Turner's father is a monster. Brock Turner's laywers are monsters. The judge that gave Brock Turner a 6th month sentence is a monster with power. I wish the world would change.

[@liamscott1905]

Brock is innocent

[@hiddend3455]

Phil a idea Add a “international story” Would be nice to see more non American stories. I know you do if it’s worthy just thought it would be a nice addition to the show that’s all keep doing what you doing.

[@pr3ludejr]

dillan beattie he has and does.

[@orbit_gum5661]

So do you want him to keep doing what he is doing or add an international story.

[@ncolvin05]

The only garbage in that crime scene was him...

[@dolan9990]

Nathan Colvin thought the exact same.

[@QueenBethJoy]

This deserves all the thumbs up

[@RenegadeVile]

Is The View always cancerous?

[@Revdiee]

I think the Saudi prince should be the Person of the Year. What he's doing is incredibly important and deserves much more attention than the other people mentioned.

[@tumado7304]

he became prince by exploiting children and poor people.

[@thepariah3516]

Attending gay orgies in Britain is very important.

[@bulacomunistu8727]

I don't think the Yemenis who are dying by the hundreds each day due to starvation and lack of water because of a Saudi naval blockade would agree with you.

[@16m49x3]

He is not King of Saudi Arabia. Yet. He doesn't have power over everything that goes on there.

[@overandoverr]

TUmaDO he became a prince without doing nothing!! (King son aka prince will become kimg after death of current king )

[@DerbyMods]

I hope he goes back to court and they sentence him to even more.

[@wacco4932]

It's weird to me that "Person of the year" can be a group or a movement.

[@billrobinson5110]

While what you said about Kevin Spacey is true, you left out an important element. He admitted to it all, and offered an apology. It was only in the wake of the admission that he lost his Netflix gig, and everything else he was then-currently working on. I think it's an important point, as both Roy Moore and Donald J. Trump have also had a mountain of complaints against them, but neither has admitted guilt. It seems the only men who suffer for their crimes, bad behavior, indiscretions, what-have-you, are the ones who admit to it. Based on the complaints against them, Roy Moore shouldn't be running for the Senate, and Donald J. Trump shouldn't be president.

[@leo88775]

Bill Robinson You don't admit to something when you're not guilty. You seem a little salty.

[@vetehinenV]

Why even have criminal investigations, just ask the accused "are you guilty" and that's enough, every suspect would obviously admit that they are guilty, why would they lie after all? That's how it works right.

[@vetehinenV]

I wasn't even commenting on Trump necessarily, my point is that it's stupid to suggest that if someone doesn't admit to something that means they are innocent.

[@MsRadicalReviews]

In British Columbia (Canada) a group of teenagers stole a classmates cat, shaved it with a disposable razor (leaving the cat with nicks and cuts), force-fed it drugs (I think it was PCP but I'm not sure), and then THREW IT OUT A SECOND STORY WINDOW... And they filmed the entire thing and sent it to the owner of the cat.Yet it never made it out of that small BC city, there was no twitter outrage, etc. Hell, the kids (who all basically outed themselves on social media) weren't even charged. Only the main offender (the one on film) was charged.Fuck pet abusers.

[@kellin7700]

MsRadicalReviews makes me sick

[@eliascrooker7773]

That's terrible.

[@timtrainage]

I think my neighbor should be person of the year. Because none of those other people lent me a rake.

[@FreeLearnclass]

time person of year ========================= BITCOIN

[@trg1408]

Elon Musk The Creator lol

[@stikman7226]

The fact that they call a rape not even close to a crime is disgusting and the fact that they try to make a problem out of the “dumpster” it’s fucking bleh

[@thesaucydandy]

Uriel Cuenca It is disgusting, rape is a crime, and you shows that he knew it was by running away. She did not consent, she was passed out, he is just trying to clear his name. And I hope this backfires and his appeal ends up getting him more time, if that is possible. He is showing the opposite of remorse.

[@stikman7226]

The Saucy Dandy I hope that his appeal backfires but unfortunately that probably won’t happen