Disruption - Explaining Every BANNED Card in the Pokémon TCG’s Expanded Format: Episode 2

[@pragmat1k]

HE HAS A POKEMON TCG CHANNEL NOW TOO!? At this point I'm going to just make up my own TCG to get logs to make a special channel about it.

[@luckasneo2089]

The poker logs

[@pragmat1k]

@@luckasneo2089 "Poker is an established game that has been around for centuries. The rules are simple but the interactions are often more complex than they appear at first glance. Today we will be going over the top ten worst cards in Poker."

[@Salvare___000]

@@pragmat1k my God this has no right to be this funny

[@0rbeez]

What are his other channels? I just found him today lol

[@Salvare___000]

@@0rbeez TheDuelLogs is the main channel I'd say (yugioh related), TheDuelLogs DuelLogs is a clip channel for his youtube streams, TheManaLogs (Magic the gathering oriented), TheDnDLogs (Dungeons and Dragons), and I believe that he still has another successful channel about World of Warcraft; not to mention all his other failed channels who are now a meme (like the ghost jokes channel)

[@BanditZRaver]

Magic and YGO: "interruptions is important gameplay mechanic, they simply cannot enable solitaire decks." Pokemon and Vanguard: "WEVE SEEN WHAT ASSHOLES DO TO PEOPLE BEFORE THEIR TURN EVEN STARTS!"

[@MetronaJ]

I remember when duel logs was confused why draw 3 in pokemon tcg is bad Now he has a pokemon tcg youtube channel, how he has grown

[@Forestxavier20]

What makes this funnier is the fact that if you look at the other TCGs, card draw varies so much. Draw 3 in Yugioh - God Tier, + 2 card advantage is almost always worth it. Draw 3 in MTG - Decent, but depends on what deck you are running and your turn or ramp potential. This being said, card advantage is card advantage and burn-mill decks exist, so you can even weaponize card draw against people. Draw 3 in Pokemon - Very rarely worth it, so many cards do it better.

[@EasyCakeMuffin]

@@Forestxavier20 UH ACKSHUALLY DRAW THREE IS +2 NOT +3

[@bucketslash11]

he doesn't write it himself, he relies on other people who have experience with the non-yugioh TCG, he merely reads their script

[@madjester9844]

Damn, both yugioh and pokemon got hand disrupting delinquents

[@bigmackdaddy101]

...magic would like to have a word with you

[@azuredragoon2054]

inb4 Pokemon releases its own Delinquent Duo card, but it's Team Skull so it's mostly useless and remains legal.

[@lpfan4491]

@@azuredragoon2054 And then "Ya boi Guzma Z" releases and makes the card broken.

[@adamkarlb6329]

Flabébé's ban was not preemptive. It happened after one of the most absurd expanded tournaments ever in japan

[@AusVtuber]

It was preemptive outside of Japan.

[@NachoMountDewCat]

May I ask for a source?

[@BoopaKing]

There's something really funny about seeing YGO banning a "draw 2" card and making a multitude of nerfed versions and still limiting some of those nerfed versions, while Professor Sycamore goes "lmao draw 7"

[@engiopdf8745]

Marnie making you go +4 then -7 your opponent off single activation. That's where the powerlevel of supporter cards is at. If cards like Bill were still basic Trainer cards (i.e. not sharing the supporter card OPT) then they would be just as broken as Pot of Greed.

[@heavenbot]

Ready for the video, was not expecting that voice to be behind it. Unreal, great work!

[@iothefrog]

Sun and moon format had many unfun decks that looped you down to nothing thanks to cards like Jesse James, reset stamp, and mismagious knocking itself out giving opponent a prize (1 less in hand after reset stamp) and also drawing you a bunch of cards

[@JustJustKen]

You sound familiar. I hope you cover some Yu-Gi-Oh! Cards in the future too. lol

[@casualbrowsing6432]

as someone who knows nothing about pokemon tcg while also being an avid watcher of your yugioh content, it's INSANE to me that they printed a card that can reach 210 damage per hit AND has a once per turn actual literal pot of greed.

[@ihaveanamewow1983]

You should check out Shadow Rider Calyrex VMAX

[@JadeHex]

I sure do see this Zoroark card mentioned a lot, i wonder if these free high-hp basic utility beaters with free handfixing pokepowers and strong attacks for only colorless energy might've been some kind of glaring design issue.

[@CrnaStrela]

It was a terror in standard too, it does have weakness of fighting but during the standard format when zoroark gx was legal, there wasn't any good fighting based deck, the closest one was probably forbidden light zygarde gx bonnie, but even they can't do much against extreme handfixing ability of zoroark gx and they are way too slow in attaching energy as the key gx attack equires 2 fighting energy and 2 colourless

[@jakegearhart]

Zoroark-GX created some of the most well-loved and skill-based gameplay in the game's modern history. It was broken in the Expanded format, but what wasn't broken in the Expanded format.

[@shio-y]

@@CrnaStrela There were absolutely some good fighting decks in the format at the time such as Buzzwole/Lycanroc, Lycanroc/Zoroark or the shrine of punishment single prize deck.

[@koyoyoyo1170]

@@jakegearhart agreed. zoroark control is the best mirror match in the modern era. Its up there with Mewtrick, GardeGallade, and Magma mirrors.

[@CrnaStrela]

@@shio-y shit, completely forgot about lycanroc because they are part of zoroark too.

[@isaacmellen]

I would love to see a video on the rather old delta pokemon cards, I think those would be really interesting to cover in a video similar to the "untold" series on the yugioh channel those were also cards I remember from when I very first got into pokemon before knowing anything about it, so it would be really nice to see a more analytical take on them all these years later

[@Omegallednar]

Bro is on evry TCG for our pleasure thanks man !

[@slicer1181]

I think another big factor in Ghetsis getting banned had to do with the vileplume that kept your opponent from playing items and cause them to have to store them in hand until you could use ghetsis

[@JuanMiguel-qm7ue]

I have no idea how to play Pokémon, but still like to see your videos. Keep it up!

[@liltone9614]

Shaymin EX was just broken because it wasn’t a hard once per turn. It’s interaction with Scoop up net literally meant you could reuse a lot making expanded turns very long. So that’s why it got banned.

[@murpl1462]

Exeggcute was also good in hidden ball trick/ace in the hole decks because you could very easily manipulate your hand size to have the supporter be the last card

[@firedrake110]

I remember when it was all about using bills, oaks, and (super or regular) energy removals to oppressively grind people into dust. A turn one Lass would break people in HALF

[@littywitty5867]

As someone who played competitively in the BW and XY eras, I can say Ghetsis’ limited play was solely due to the high counts of draw supporters in decks. Jacob Van Wagner’s world’s winning deck was seen as innovative not because of the archetype (because this strategy had seen plenty experimentation in the past and even had some results), but because of it’s sheer reliance on item cards and low count of supporter cards. 6 Supporter cards was far from standard in the TCG during the first 2 years Ghetsis was printed. The change in deck building philosophy is the only reason Ghetsis became problematic.

[@wiredpenha3091]

Vs Seeker was the main culprit after all

[@koyoyoyo1170]

ghetsis wasnt good in bw and early xy because there was no reliable way to have it when you need it and most decks only run 6-8 draw supporters. 3 juniper, 3 N, maybe 2 colress and (especially early on from next destinies to plasma) 4 random reciever.

[@user-fe8gx3ie5v]

Shiny cardboard isn't "problematic."

[@UnuUO]

@@user-fe8gx3ie5v they clearly meant problematic within the game. You’re not better than other people just because they have different hobbies than you

[@user-fe8gx3ie5v]

@@UnuUO It's still dumb to take a card game that seriously. Have fun with it.

[@marxistharpy]

I miss Hex Maniac. I think VS seeker was a more problematic card that should have been banned instead, as it allowed for Hex Maniac to be played turn after turn

[@lancelee338]

As someone who knows next to nothing about the Pokémon TCG, I’m astounded how combo-oriented the format is. That Weezing in particular stands out because you don’t even need a Koffing in your deck in order for the effect to trigger. You have multiple copies of a card in your deck that you will never play. It’s purely a combo card I know this video is only one aspect of the game across a span of time, but it’s not what I expected at all It’s also funny because I think I can accurately guess the trajectory of the Pokémon TCG just from watching this video. It probably started out with pretty weak Pokémon, then the health and attack damage went up, then more and more powerful Abilities started being printed (and secondary effects of attacks), and now you have crazy multi-card combos. It’s cool, but not what I expected at all

[@jakegearhart]

Pokémon has always had the most powerful draw options of any major card game, so naturally strategies have ended up heavily combo-oriented compared to others. In the Standard format you'll find less technical combos than Expanded, but lots of cards synergizing together is a key part of Pokémon. You're also pretty spot on about the trajectory of the game, especially in the non-Standard formats which don't rotate yearly.

[@leaffinite2001]

I mean isnt that kinda. How all the games have gone? Stats go up, then abilities get out of hand, then repeat.

[@dragonch0ch0ch06]

correction drampa gx does 80 + 70 more dmg not 80+80. source: you can see the card.

[@misterlinux9290]

Source: "trust me bro"

[@WingedZeroh]

Okay so I liked the content in your duel logs channel. this one touches me the most 'cause I play way more pokemon than yugioh. so yeah, nice work mate.

[@nman423nj]

Just started TCG online, and added an old team plasma pre-made deck via its code card, and I was quite confused for a while why I was unable to play with an official pre-made deck…it had Ghetsis. Lol

[@mdudegamer]

Ooh, I didn't know they eventually reprinted a Blastoise with an unlimited energy playing ability. I remember when Blastoise ex came out way back in FireRed/LeafGreen, I had been surprised they nerfed its Poke-Power compared to the Base Set version. I suppose it makes sense that as the game went forward, power creep would make it an acceptable ability to print again.

[@kisapniaq]

Delinquent, POT, Ghetsis, Marshadow, and maybe JesseJames if that’s still banned? blind guess before diving into the video

[@kisapniaq]

Wasn’t far off but forgot some of these cards! Red card still got done dirty in my opinion, especially if Peeking red card can stay legal. Also completely forgot Hex Maniac and Flabebe were both banned, and am still upset about the flabebe ban due to no longer getting access to t1 Floette in Shedinja builds

[@aldermeadfox4737]

@@kisapniaq Peeking red is nowhere near as good as red card come on

[@kisapniaq]

@@aldermeadfox4737 First off I want to know if you’ve played in the format. I agrée, peeking red isn’t nearly as good, but it’s still the handmill fail safe for if you can’t pull off the full combo. so it still needs a note, plus pokemons bam lists have gotten very very broad for some reason so meh

[@dmign]

cool but nobody asked

[@iothefrog]

Reset stamp, also reset stamp ended up getting many other cards banned too like lt. Surge's strategy for a turn 1 hand loop down to 0 cards that was consistent too

[@BrianRyans]

Man, and I thought there were broken cards back when I played Pokemon TCG competitively in the early 2000s. Tutors and draw like no one's business, burning half your deck first turn just to set up for a 2nd turn 70 (back then, most competitively used pokemon had 70hp), games that were decided in only a couple minutes. Edit: Cards like Bill (draw 2), Professor Oak (think Sycamore without the 'supporter' tag), Computer Search (discard 2 from hand to find ANY card), Sabrina's Gaze (both players shuffle hand into deck and draw 7), the list goes on... Oh, and don't forget the dark energy from Neo1. +10 damage, but the attached pokemon took 10/turn if not dark-type.

[@Ritsukui]

Waiting for the RunterraLogs channel!! this guy seems to know all TCG related things!!

[@isidoreaerys8745]

God Damn. It’s like the Pokémon Company saw Confiscation and Delinquent Duo and designed the entire game around that.

[@Flatfootsy]

Mana Logs, Duel Logs, Dex Logs. You're everywhere Hiruma!

[@hickknight]

And here I thought the Pokémon TCG wasn't wild. Shows what I know.

[@eyeofthetyger8504]

Don't forget the decks that create automatic win conditions like unown hand and damage

[@blackrosed8068]

Shout out to Hex Maniac, the Cold Wave Skill Drain of Pokemon tcg.

[@bananawallpaper]

sad sableye didnt get a mention with the puzzle of time stuff. there was a loop with sableyes atk (that lets you put two item cards from your discard pile into your hand). youd return the puzzles, let the sableye get knocked out with a life dew (tool card that makes your opponent not take prizes for knockout but you can only run one in your deck) attached to it then play the puzzles to return the lifedew and another resource card next turn. it took some turns to set up but after doing so your opponent was unable to take prize cards so youd eventually win by running them out of resources. didnt see a lot of play as it had a very high skill cap compared to a zoroark deck at the time. these videos are great though. Im getting a lot of nostalga watching them, cant wait till we talk about the forest of giant plants

[@ratioed1438]

It's so funny how Pokemon even had a version of Skill Drain xD

[@williamdrum9899]

It's funny because when I used to play, Ghetsis was niche at best. Seismitoad was a better way to deal with items

[@Xhadp]

For Delinquent, Another part of the combo that you can include is trick shovel? If you force the opponent to have no cards other than a top card which you can always tune to be bad thus effectively locking them out of the game since you have discarded all of their resources, this is similar to lantern control in MTG.

[@wiredpenha3091]

People used chip chip ice axe, that also got banned

[@Xhadp]

@@wiredpenha3091 That was the card I was thinking of! thank you, I knew there was another card that did the same thing but better but couldn't quite remember its name.

[@blountman747]

Great video good job explaining everything Zoroark is to op

[@sagacious03]

Man, that Exeggcute ruling feels so dumb; Your hand is private knowledge, so the "Once per turn return from discard pile to hand" effect is reset every time you use it, letting you use it infinitely per turn.... Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!

[@randomprotag9329]

it does make sense it just feels like the dumb part of not having a hard once per turn.

[@dyescape]

its actually meant to be like that; there are other cards in the game that have text explicitly stating that you can only use their effect once during your turn even if it returns to your hand and becomes a new pokemon after you play it down again (see the regidrago with the dragons hoard ability) and cards like scoop up net are intended for you to reuse “once during your turn” abilities by returning them to your hand. The way its worded in the video is just a little weird, cards like propagation exeggcute arent broken by any means

[@radishhat5736]

its the same as soft once per turn and hard once per turn in Yugioh. Its impossible to know how many exeggcutes are in your hand, so its like that and adding an arbitrary rule like "Only 4 cause 4 copies in a deck" is even worse.

[@FranciscoJG]

Bruh, in YGO even flipping the monster face-down and face-up again makes it a different card for "once per turn" purposes.

[@willtheweary]

This brought back fond memories of expanded

[@gotpaladin]

POT was absolutely brutal. Used it in Beesmarch when it was legal.

[@codewarrior8426]

Damn I watched you even when I knew every yugioh cards, now I get to learn Pokémon cards too

[@MissingNo_]

I'm so glad I found this . Love the Duel logs but I don't play yugioh. I do keep up pokemon though and you really know your shit. Good job

[@AzurielMist]

Played during the marshadow era, them on the play into marshadow to put you to a dead/ brick hand just to pass was never fun.

[@riaz8783]

Enjoyed the video, but it would be great if you make your fonts bigger please. It's difficult to read on phone!

[@novacorponline]

I don't understand the exeggcute ruling. How could you discard the same exeggcute multiple times to pay the cost of another card or effect? Shouldn't you have to resolve the effect before you can begin using other card effects?

[@jakegearhart]

Whenever you want to play a card with a discard-cost like Ultra Ball, you would put one or two Exeggcute from your discard pile into your hand, then play Ultra Ball to discard them. The ruling with Exeggcute is that, despite saying "Once during your turn," its Propagation Ability actually worked as an "As often as you like during your turn" Ability because the Ability resets when it enters your hand. So if you wanted to play a 2nd Ultra Ball, you could bring back those same two Exeggcute to pay for its cost.

[@jshtng78]

I guess that in the Pokemon TCG J&J turned out to be a Delinquent Duo, eh?

[@GustavoNDias]

Is this the Dex Logs, from the Duel Logs Dex Logs fame ?

[@AnonYmous69271]

Suggestion: You should do a video or two about the WORST cards to ever exist in the TCG. Cards that aren't just bad because they have low HP or attack power, or that they're made worthless by power creep, but cards so horrendous that you'd have to be a complete fool to put them in your deck.

[@FranciscoJG]

There are too many of them in pretty much every expansion.

[@AnonYmous69271]

@@FranciscoJG I don't mean generic cards that are just useless, I mean cards that are BAD

[@adamkarlb6329]

Shouldn’t oranguru and sableye be in this section of disruption cards? I mean they are like puzzle of time in recovering disruption cards

[@moofy69]

i remember ragequitting regionals a few years ago when the decidueye/vileplume/garbodor decks were a thing. it was so boring to play against and ruined my love of the game, so now i dont play anymore

[@MazterP28]

I just finished excadrill control and realized a bunch of cards in the deck are banned

[@exxplosion9276]

The 5 ritual beasts players are really happy rn

[@yellownotmellow]

not a pokemon tcg player but i didnt know marshadow was banned lol i was reading the card the other day, saw the ability and thought this cant be right

[@saleah4368]

Wow you really have a channel for everything

[@sky_shu]

I swear!! This man doesnt stop

[@backlashD]

Aha! Found you in Pokemon. Covering the big three I see

[@Mimiyan_or_Pikapikafan]

Only 1 card was missing: *Reset Stamp*

[@jakegearhart]

Don't worry! 13:07 ;-)

[@catsorafgc]

I’ve thought about learning Pokémon. Are there archetypes in this game too? Like cards based around bringing out Charizard and supporting it for example.

[@radiantcharisma]

There are some pairings of cards like Night March. There are cards that simply complement each other, like turbo dark which focuses on getting out dark energies, mainly surrounding Darkrai.

[@jakegearhart]

Yes, most decks are based around one or two main attackers and Pokémon, Trainer, and Energy cards that support them.

[@bayar_]

a mew genesect deck sounds so cool. never even thought their artwork would look great together.

[@TheThirdGenQ]

I haven't played pokemon in a while; Can you not play supporters on your first turn now?

[@joebaumgart1146]

I haven't played Pokémon since gen 2. I have absolutely no clue what's going on.

[@Ergeniz]

Same. All I know is the holographic Charizard had that 100 attack move and that was a big number.

[@joebaumgart1146]

@@Ergeniz I had that card, but never used it. The cost of playing it was wayyy to high to be worth it.

[@about7grams]

i sitll shudder when i hear the name night march

[@JTP_BAMN]

Can you do a “most broken cards or strategies that aren’t/ didn’t get banned?” From any era or format.

[@TheEmeraldboy100]

Arceus-Dialga-Palkia GX is likely on the list

[@meisterschwert]

@@TheEmeraldboy100 Origin Palkia in expanded too

[@Ergeniz]

@@meisterschwert Don't forget holographic Charizard

[@animeandrice9664]

I guess I have been out of the game for a long time I remember these cards coming out and lysanders trump card was the only banned card

[@RoxasHerzloser]

damn, they got rid of like half my sylveon GX mill deck ;-;

[@itsjoynow]

"Once per turn" doesn't mean what I think it means, apparently

[@SpectreXS]

I like the pokemon content so far, but I feel like a lot of these explanations are quite shallow. Non-supporter hand disruption cards such as red card, let loose marshadow and reset stamp are a no-go in expanded because due to the turbo degenerate aspect of the format, these cards can be used on the first turn going first, leaving your opponent to start their game with almost no cards in hand. They have nothing to do with Zoroark GX or lele, especially since nobody plays zoro in expanded anymore aside from the checkmate deck. When it comes to cards like hex maniac and things that put resources back in hand/deck, if they can create an exploitable loop, in expanded they likely will. That's why hex, resource management oranguru, are banned. Control has been playable here and there in standard (or GLC) and the end result is usually a shallow deck loop where you use disruption cards and send them back to the deck in order to use them next turn. One of these cards is usually hex maniac. The ban has nothing to do with Zoroark GX (again) as there are many pokemon with abilities that make you draw cards or loop back resources.

[@jakegearhart]

This series is explaining the reason why they got banned in the first place (often specifically mentioned by the Pokémon company). If they were allowed to stay legal for longer, other support Pokémon would've filled Zoroark-GX's role as the format increased speeding up.

[@demonkingsparda]

When are we getting WarhammerLogs?

[@bucketslash11]

many of these would've been solved with a HARD once per turn

[@Chris420x1]

The fact that these card games have cards that have been banned is super hilarious they were made for the game so no cards should be banned from any game. If it was ment to be banned then the original creators wouldn't of created those specific cards

[@jakegearhart]

Cards are designed primarily for the Standard format, in which bans are rare and only occur when the game designers overlook something. The Expanded format receives bans because cards which weren't designed to interact with each other do so in a negative way.

[@Benzinilinguine]

Bro I watch you for Warcraft and Yugioh and HOW DO YOU HAVE SO MANY CHANNELS???

[@lazer_cat0o0]

Bruh all that's left is for duel logs to do is to make a flesh and blood themed channel

[@erm718]

BRUH, I DIDN'T KNOW YOU DID POKEMON

[@nicktauro1839]

How many channels does this man have?! Edit they should have ban Zoroack bth.

[@CRIPPLINGSODIUMADDICT]

THIS IS THE BEST SHIT EVER. DUEL LOGS X POKEMON. YEAR 6 ME WOULD HAVE CREAMED FOR THIS SHIT

[@SBroproductions]

Holy shit this guy has cornered the market on CCG Top 10s/Lists.

[@melvinshine9841]

It kind of makes me happy that Zoroark was good n the TCG, as opposed to being mediocre in the video games. There was no reason to use Zoroark in Gen 6 since Mega Absol had the same low defensive stats as Zoroark, but much better speed, offensive stats, move pool, and ability. I wonder if all the Tapus saw as much use in the TCG as the video games. I'd see Tapu Koko all the damn time, but Lele was the much, much scarier one to face in my opinion.

[@aggrofrag5005]

Tapu Lele-GX was the must-have support Pokémon back in SUM era. It searched your deck for a supporter card when you put it on the Bench, and it had a passable attack for 2 Colorless that did 20 times the number of Energy on both Pokémon. Tapu Bulu-GX was paired with Vikavolt as an aggressive Grass-type deck that I would say was tier 2 at least at the time. Tapu Koko Prism Star was crazy for lightning decks once Tag Teams showed up and Pikachu & Zekrom-GX was possible BDIF. Unfortunately, Tapu Fini never had a huge presence in the TCG, but I'm happy to say that most of them had cards that saw good amounts of play

[@melvinshine9841]

@@aggrofrag5005 The annoying little fish girl is the Tapu I've run into the least, but Tapu Fini's a huge pain in the ass most of the times I've run into it, mainly because I almost never come across one when I'm running a good counter for it. That fact you can't hit it with status as long as Misty Terrain is active means you can't counter it with most other defensive Water types, while it can spam Moonblast or Nature's Fury to fish for Special Attack drops or just keep halving your Hp. A match up against Toxapex of all things is actually in Fini's favor, since Toxapex can't burn or poison it, Fini has Taunt to stop Recover or Haze, and it can come in safely on Toxic Spikes and then just Defog them away.

[@fawfulmark2]

The thing that hurt Zoroark(and to an extent HA Ditto) in the videogames was that the generation it debuted in(5) was also the same generation that introduced Team Previews, removing the surprise factor which would have made it viable. As for the Taps in the TCG, Lele GX was the most used due to her Ability being one of the strongest Turn 1 options at the time and was even popular enough to get a reprint for the Celebrations Anniversary set. The next most popular I believe was Koko Prisim Star, but nowhere near as much as Lele.

[@HiramP20]

You know, I feel like zoroark gx was the real problem here....

[@TheGreatDanish]

HOW MANY CHANNELS DO YOU HAVE? I enjoyall of your content, but time and again, I click on a new channel and its you again.

[@alexandrioshighwind]

Hirumaredx is that you?

[@tame1773]

Wait, you can play the game in Pokemon? Impossible!

[@vanaduke4904]

ANOTHER CHANNEL?! he cant keep getting away with thes

[@timtomtimothythe2nd908]

Man made a Pokemon TCG channel but is still too scared to step up to Vanguardlogs smh

[@MrSlizzard]

Maybe it’s just the topic but this made me glad not to be a TCG player. It sounds like the Meta is often just people trying to find an exploit

[@deadmaniac0472]

That's literally any competitive game ever. It's a lot better now though

[@jakegearhart]

That's just the Expanded format. The Standard format is much less exploitation-heavy and more popular.

[@fishybear3078]

hyped! :D

[@themonoloco8245]

Its the spider vtuber

[@Emilstekcor]

Yee another channel

[@MrMulambo1]

you remind me of a certain moon spider

[@clarkenfixinclunkers6583]

wait a minute, i know this voice...

[@m_ism]

Hex Maniac did nothing wrong :( free her

[@katanaking90210]

So glad expanded has banned cards. Stopped playing because of many of the cards on this list

[@TheBros2theend]

God bless heal and forgive you

[@sablesalt]

imma be clear as someone who played the tcg for over 10+ years, almost all of the reasons these cards were banned is not what the company said as they did blatantly lie when banning most of these. the majority of these where banned for the purpose of enabling powercreep to run rampant as these cards have strengths in ways past the numbers listed on the cards or in other words they have banned these to be able to print stronger Pokémon to encourage players to buy more cards since these cards are used to form meaningful interaction with the other player that isn't related to beating them down with your Pokémon and with them gone they can assure newer cards with larger hp and damage simply invalidate older cards so players must buy new cards to keep up with the metagame. the numbers on cards have bloated heavily since tag team and created a much more toxic metagame as players have been stripped of tools to interact with the other player other than presenting larger numbers in play. many of these cards were not broken until zoroak gx was printed, puzzle, hex, egg and ghet were not really seen as oppressive tools but instead as a form of interaction one would have to time on key turns to use properly as if not used well they pale compared to much more practical and direct forms of disruption seen in lysander and guzma which are used to pull up one of your opponents Pokémon to then ko it as a way to deny them from even setting it up to be able to have a presence in the board at all while also completely making the resources the other player spent go to waste on top of the fact you get prize cards as a result which further makes it a positive trade which in turn allows you to repeat this in a cycle to deny any form of a board state being formed by them. zoroak gx enables such immense card advantage that it broke these cards by allowing you to always have access to these cards and use them at a higher rate since you simply don't need to use supporters on draw power, zoroak plays these cards to force the other player to spend their supporter on draw and as a result have no way to actually get rid of it by playing a card to either pull it up to ko or turn off its trade ability so the zoroak deck may continuously destroy their board, moreover zoroak was paired with nightmarch or seismatoad during these times and both those decks ran 4 double colorless before and after puzzle was printed and banned respectively. jeese/james was printed after zoroak but they still were broken by the cad advantage it created as the card is not remotely good without such absurd card advantage. shaymin actually had a card printed specifically to have a broken interaction with it to allow them to ban it, moreover the replacements for shaymin have more hp which makes them harder to ko for the other player and dedenne gx also discards the hand before drawing 6 which is beyond busted as it enables alot of discard pile nonsense when it already had plenty of support. flabebe was just a bad card to run fundamentally as it isn't remotely worth the time or bench space to trade two cards for 1 of your opponents even at random, I say this as someone who ran disruption decks (as well as zoroak-march) dduring the era. deliquint, marshadow and red card were all banned due to interactions in conjunction with a mismagious and another item card they printed to have an excuse to ban jirachi ex to force players to upgrade to lele if they haven't. TLDR: these bans happened so powercreep could go brrr and print money.

[@jakegearhart]

The Pokémon's Standard format rotates every year, forcing players to buy new cards all the time, and the vast majority of the Pokémon TCG's sales come from collectors, not players. These cards were banned to make the Expanded format more fun, which does a lot more to help sales and interactivity than anything else.

[@sablesalt]

@@jakegearhart standard is a different format, collectors buy the cards regaurdless, these cards where not seen as problematic until introduced to cards that where unreasonbly strong both in standard and post bannings, the playerbase of expanded dropped during that time period, the players that remained interested expanded where succesfully forced to buy new cards to keep up with the meta also you cannot even argue this was done for the game balance as they still print stronger iterations of the cards seen in the decks that where suppossedly toxic and they killed legacy via universal rules changes for the same reason as now it's playerbase is forced to move to a format that is affected by newer card printings and thus powercreep if they want to play the game at all now that their native format is dead. TLDR: no

[@jakegearhart]

@@sablesalt After these cards and the Island Challenge Amulet combo was banned, there's never been a way to remove your opponent's hand before they get a turn. If these cards were still legal, that would be a common strategy, resulting in a format nobody wants to play. That's game balance.

[@sablesalt]

@@jakegearhart yeah tell me when that was a combo before amulet and mismagious where printed, those cards where printed to specifically cause that as an excuse to ban these longstanding cards. Thats not game balance, that's introducing a problem to an ecosystem then blaming the ecosystem for it. You don't start a forest fire then blame the old oak trees for being flamable do you?, same applies here as these were cards the format had grown around and had no issue with until introduction to these new effects that broke fundamentals, the closest thing to them before was milotic but that card doesn't give card draw advantage or have the ability to evolve turn 1 via an item let alone one introduced in the same set intentionally.

[@jakegearhart]

@@sablesalt Creatures Inc did not print a card just so they would have to ban it. It was an oversight that Amulet could be used to knock out Jirachi-EX immediately. The oversight was corrected with Hero's Medal. You're looking for conspiracies in places there are none.