Dissociation from Memories vs. Dissociation from Emotions. Is that really a thing? ep.135

[@Katimorton]

Good morning everyone :) If you find my podcast helpful, please consider sharing it with others. You never know who might want to be listening 😃

[@Grace.allovertheplace]

4:02 4:02 Hi 👋 no It’s not that, or of course I can’t say for sure but as soon as you read the question I thought yes! (Please bare with me English isn’t my first language, I know I’m whole, BUT in order to cope as a little girl at the age of 3-4 years old with severe things I always used to think about some kid in my daycare. (I focused on 3 people, but mainly I projected most of it to a boy a year or two older than me, his name is Rob. the other two was girls in my age. I focused really hard, and I’d like a mantra *”This isn’t happening to me, this is happening to Rob, poor him, I wish I could could help him but I can’t*”(I said something to this effect, and repeated for hours if necessary until I could sleep, and I did this in order to *NOT* ”fall”…. [End] I started listening to you today (doesn’t matter what day it’s) and I listened to A SPECIFIC POD, which made me understand what I began experiencing 6 months ago at my dentist is a heavy trauma response, tomorrow is my very last time at the dentist (I’ve never, isn’t scared of the dentist) So it came as a surprise when I had to go to the dentist 6 months ago and I began having severe spasms in my entire body, which led me have to see a dentist who have access to laughing gas/nitrous gas due to severe muscle spasms, today I’d problem breathing and stopped breathing and I did say something, which I only partly remembered when I got home and tomorrow is my last appointment and I feel a strong need to ask the dentist what I said because I know I at some point had tears running down my cheeks (as I’d never cried before, the assistant nurse stroke my hair and forehead and I “dosed off” (and the only thing I remember makes no sense) (also the crying was absolutely non-voluntarily, I felt so ashamed.) when I listened to the first pod I referred to above I felt as I’d to throw up but still cannot get a grip on what all this is, and yes I have had “body memories and “haunting dreams as long as I can remember but I start to think I’m going crazy because I can’t grab the memories! I’m so sorry if this doesn’t makes sense at all but it doesn’t makes sense to me either. Love Grace

[@Grace.allovertheplace]

(Regarding movies or a musicals for example, for me it’s the knowing it’s a time off from reality and if I’m participating in a play or dance class it’s also a way of forgetting the person I really am, and don’t really appreciate.)

[@anniekate76]

Timestamps! 0:54 1. Can you talk more about dissociation from memories vs dissociation from emotions? Is that really a thing? I find I use a coping skill to put my trauma memories into these other “people”, so I remember what happened but... 17:26 2. My maladaptive response to developmental trauma (abandonment, emotional abuse and neglect) has been to completely isolate myself from everyone to the point where I only feel known by my therapist of one year. Relationships are incredibly triggering to me... 25:13 3. Why do people with mental illness sometimes compare their struggles to each other like a competition? I've had conversations in inpatient and out in the world where people list how many meds... 32:16 4. I am in counseling and something we have covered is getting a better handle on who I actually am, rather than being defined by my mental illness (in my case depression and anxiety). One exercise is writing down what traits I have and what is... 46:29 5. Can you elaborate on how one might understand if they are filling their schedule to run from what’s going on in their life vs keeping the calendar full as a way to move forward in life? I am conflicted between... 50:19 6. I have a question about negative self-talk. I have noticed that most people talk to themselves in the second person. For example "You are so stupid for making that mistake." I talk to myself... 53:01 7. Why does mental illness make concentration so hard? I’ve been working with a trauma therapist and attempting to be more present only makes me realize how hard it is to pay attention. When people talk I can hear them and can follow conversation enough to make... 1:02:55 8. I'm afraid that I might be the weirdest person ever, I´ve tried to google this but I can't find anyone else experiencing the same thing and this is so shameful. Please, please help me explain this! The problem is, I get... 1:08:29 9. Why can’t I cry? I often tear up about things not closely related to me, like world events or historical events, but when it comes to the things that I feel are close to me, I have nothing. I know that I have sadness about some of the more...

[@Lamkins._.]

Tysm 💛

[@petraharwin9670]

So helpful. Thanks!

[@Vntoronto]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@justmeemi6350]

Omg do you know what would be GREAT?! If Katy would do a series where she interviews one of her viewers about their mental illness! Just to get a deeper understanding about WHAT different illness might feel like :)

[@HerPaperParadise]

You are always discussing heavy topics in these videos and I don't want to sound incentive but every time you mention "dissociate" you go "waaaahhh" it makes me giggle. Love the way you explain difficult subjects.

[@kat93]

Hi Kati! I'm the girl with the weird sexual arousal linked to anxiety… Thank you so much for answering my question! I was really hoping not to have to talk to a doctor about this, but after hearing your response, maybe I should reconsider that idea... I think I had a pretty bad concussion a couple of years ago, but I was too embarrassed about how I had gotten it so I never went to the hospital to get checked out. Instead, I rested for a week until the dizziness started to subside. As you say, it's probably nothing too serious, but your answer makes me wonder if I should look into it now in retrospect. I'm actually going to see my doctor in a few weeks to discuss starting meds for depression and anxiety again. It would be such a relief if it helped with this problem. Thanks again for your reply and thanks for all that you do! Greetings from Sweden!

[@thestatusquoy]

Hey! You're not alone - even if it ends up being nothing to do with your concussion, I experience this too. The only things I found were just 'yes, it's a thing, you're not weird.' I've just come to accept it as an anxiety symptom. I hope you find your answer! Good luck ❤️

[@VHoffses]

I just wanted to say that you aren't alone. I wasn't expecting this question to be asked but I'm so glad you asked it. I think its quite likely that a lot of us feel these feelings but are often too ashamed to ask. Anyways, thank you for asking and thank you for making me feel less alienated as well

[@kat93]

@@VHoffses ​ Wow, thank you so much for sharing this!

[@kat93]

​@@thestatusquoy Wow, thank you so much for sharing this!

[@nancyliawoods]

Thanks so much Kati, I always learn so much when I listen to you even If i cant always relate to the question. I value your content ❤

[@fredontime]

For those with perfection, dig into the 80/20 rule for possible use as coping tool. May gen a change in perspective . One example: 80% of sales are produced by 20% of customers. Focus on the 20% will be the best use of your time. The 80/20 rule can be applied to many things with a little thought.

[@Nikki-2007]

I can feel when I'm starting to dissociate. It's the weirdest feeling and I don't know how to explain it other than it slowly comes on and then gets stronger and stronger until I am no longer in the present moment. I feel almost like I'm in a dream and if I'm talking to someone I won't remember the conversation at all. It's kind of scary and embarrassing at the same time. It's like my brain just shuts down and it's like NOPE! I'm not doing this right now! I've had one therapist that could tell when it was happening to me. No one else in my life could ever tell. I feel like it's very obvious and I think that's the embarrassing part. It's scary when you feel yourself slowly removing from your body and feel completely out of control. Thank you for all you do Kati! Your videos are always so hopeful! I have BPD, cptsd, GAD, panic disorder, and health anxiety. I find literally every one of your videos helpful in one way or another 💜

[@VHoffses]

Thank you so much for the work you do. This podcast hit all the feels and I feel so heard. I'm speechless and struggling to find the words of gratitude that are strong enough to truly express my thankfulness. We definitely needed this, so thank you 😊 much love to you Kati

[@Nikki-2007]

I absolutely can relate to the question about SA and forgetting and remembering it now at 39. For me a old friends father was one of my abusers and she added me as a friend on FB. Everything came back to me at once when she messaged me and simply said oh yea my dad says hi! It all flooded back and when talking to my therapist I felt like I didn't know if it really happened or what was going on. I was in a whirlwind of emotions for awhile after that. I guess I am just saying you are not alone and I can completely understand.

[@jessicabiddle9696]

So DID... i experience dissociative memories as a sort of 3rd party movie projector. Each of my parts has their own trauma they carry for the better of the whole. So what triggers my body doesnt always trigger my brain, at least since weve integrated for the most part.

[@hannahkerstinsmith]

This video is really helpful, thank you!

[@aj32384]

Great episode! Thank you so much!

[@iris__and_rhizomes]

Excited for this! -Jori, OG viewer.

[@littlemissnobody9657]

Yes please make a video on why we cant cry great idea!

[@SelkiesSong]

I'm the opposite with the competitive thing. I find myself shutting down when someone starts "competing" or "dumping" their dx list on me. It took me a long time to seek help because I didn't want to be perceived as someone whose entire personality seems to revolve around their disorder or issues. And part of that may be because of the way my Mom would use her issues as an excuse for hurting us.

[@DianaMarie23051]

I dont think people are competing. I think it’s them trying to connect on a situation that they feel they understand.

[@user-wi3yx3gy2o]

“Structural dissociation” comes originally from the work of Pierre Janet. It was originally used to describe PTSD flashbacks a dissociated personalities “emotional parts” stuck in the traumatic event, and “apparently normal part,” which is the part that deal with all of the aspect of ordinary life (everything that is not a flashback. The term structural means a part of personality. The term “dissociation” means disconnected. The “Theory of Structural Dissociation of the Personality” is a later development. It includes the idea of PTSD emotional parts and the idea of one emotional part (primarily dissociation of the personality), and one or multiple apparently normal parts. In this scene, it is somewhat unclear whether the identification of emotional parts is the same that Janet identified, or whether it is broader (i.e., any part that is not developed or mature enough to deal with everyday life). In the conte t if C DID the host or go-hosts would always be apparently normal parts. I think it makes more sense to consider most other parts to be apparently normal parts too, if we stick with the definition of emotional parts which Janet used. But there could be several emotional parts (flashback parts, parts completely stuck in a trauma (not merely trauma time, but the actual trauma), or possibly fragments associated with specific (usually negative or explosive) emotions. Dissociation amnesia and fugues might be simply dissociation of the memory or dissociation-related confusion or it could be the effect of either an emotional part or apparently normal part being in control. Neither require structural dissociation, though they are usually associated with structural dissociation or people who experience structural dissociation. Those forms of dissociation, along with DPDR and somatic dissociation symptoms can exist without structural dissociation.

[@fredontime]

I have started therapy ( two sessions under my belt). I do not recall the trauma events which may have happened over many years. I am shocked as how easily i slipped into (where ever it is that I go) which seems to be inside. When there, vocabulary is very limited. How do you know if there is someone else there too?

[@iris__and_rhizomes]

I use the pie analogy often. Another way people say this is “a zero sum game.” It must be evolutionary. We have evolved in an environment with limited resources. Food that one person gets is food we didn’t get. But we aren’t in that place anymore, hopefully. Moreover, we unnecessarily extrapolate this concept to everything: suffering, happiness, love, money, attention, etc. It leads to unnecessary envy and competition. When I find myself falling into this trap, I try to check myself. I make myself stop talking. Then I force myself to be silent until I can calm the panicky feeling inside. Then I re-evaluate the real goal of the conversation. I say “Well, I didn’t really want to talk about that. What I meant more was …” And I say something more real, like “I’m worried people won’t like me if they knew that about me.” Or whatever my true concern is.

[@azeemnawaz8418]

❤ from uthal, Pakistan

[@brittanywilcox7377]

You don't *have* to leave your body entirely to be dissociated from it. I often don't leave my body, but I can't always feel it physically. For instance, I won't know I'm sick with an infection until it's really bad. I've been septic TWICE!!! I currently have a double ear infection I'm fighting that I didn't realize I had for a month until I got vertigo really bad and was forced to go to urgent care. I'm lucky it didn't go to my brain 😭

[@darklybright]

Or, it could be that your immune system is a little different to average when it comes to fighting bugs. Some people are born with immune system disorders that go unnoticed for decades, even all their life. Something like that can make infections develop in an unpredictable way. Your system may well skip one or more expected symptoms because of a missing phase in a series of reactions when the cells of your body fight invaders. As a result, even specialists may overlook and undertreat actual infections. I'm speaking of experience.

[@brittanywilcox7377]

@@darklybright yes actually! I have terrible regulating my blood sugar and it makes me prone to infections. But what happens is I'll acclimate to feeling crappy instead of going to the doctor and I push myself until I almost die

[@darklybright]

I recommend you ask more about the possibility of primary immunodeficiency from your physician. Especially since you've already been septic twice.

[@brittanywilcox7377]

@@darklybright I'll bring it up. Thank you!

[@brittanywilcox7377]

DID is built on the theory of structural dissociation. The person who asked the question sounds like they have DID to me (I have it and have been in therapy a long time and have done tons of research!)

[@TInyGIrlWithDID]

We do not become the parts. :/

[@TInyGIrlWithDID]

Why do people say becoe that person. THe people do what they want to do. I don't make them do anything. :/

[@syedadil8970]

Can someone here tell me on which day kati asks for our questions?

[@nyekawhitaker1083]

I think it’s on Sundays

[@piamuran3557]

Hi Kati, DID is kind of on a spectrum. There is OSDD which includes 1A and 1B and Partial DID. In some cases this DD doesn't require amnesia. I invite you to look into this more. This is the theory of structural dissociation. It is estimated that up to 5% of the population has a DD. I love and thank you for your work

[@TInyGIrlWithDID]

I don't mean to be rude, but if people don't know about DID why are they making videos? :o( There is so much info that is false as it is. We don't become our parts. :/

[@piamuran3557]

@@TInyGIrlWithDID I think that since DID/OSDD are so complicated unless you are a specialist in DD, it is hard to put in a nutshell everything. There is so much false info, but I think little by little people are becoming better educated. My very best wishes.

[@TInyGIrlWithDID]

yeah it is hard to get a good therapist. it is good to get a good therapist who knows and has been trained in DID. :o Huggies. :D@@piamuran3557

[@Nikki-2007]

Holy crap 😩I can literally relate to every one of these questions today! I needed to hear this podcast today. Thank you Kati and everyone who asked these hard questions.

[@BoykinMeetsWorld]

The apothecary wall resonates so deeply. Sometimes I will hesitate sharing my traumas because I have had to compartmentalize them and it comes off as almost disingenuous because it’s void of the emotion that maybe some would connect with reminiscing that event. So that really resonated. Now, isn’t there also some thing that it’s not DID per se but it’s a less intense dissociative state that doesn’t causes a definite split?

[@laurapriedite4951]

I listened to this episode and kept thinking about the person who told her experience with arousal during therapy sessions or anything anxiety provoking. It reminded me of the times when I was in therapy and talked about how I was sexually aroused after every massage session and how shameful it was, especially because I didn't want anything sexual with my masseuse. I was so detached from my body that I didn't know what emotions led me to being aroused. In fact- I was disociated the whole massage. My homework for quite some time was to learn what and where in the body I was feeling, that it was safe to feel my body, and to accept all the bodily things our bodies do. Because I was so ashamed of everything that my body did. From the sound that eyelids make when blinking to pooping and everything in between. And this sounds so whoo-whoo, but, once I started to listening to my body and allowing to be just as it is, a lot of bizarre things stopped happening. And I had to listen to my body, why was it screaming so loud. Why I was having panic attacks 5 times a day, why was I depressed, why I wanted to sleep and never wake up, and make changes in my life accordingly. And I learned that my arousal sometimes came from pleasure. Because touch can be pleasureful, even when it's nothing sexual. And my therapist told that reproductive organs are pleasure center and I'm allowed to be aroused, so I'm rolling with it. There's nothing ashamed of it. It's something that I still have to remind myself to this day. But sometimes my arousal came from being scared. I've had sexual abuse in my past, and, when touched, I had flashbacks- hence dissociation. I had CBT and somatic experiencing and had to run things by two therapists, and it was tricky at times, and I wanted to give up. But it was so worth it. But.. I think it's nothing to be ashamed of. Your body is screaming for help. And it's your and your therapist's job to understand what it is that it's asking for. I'm sure things will get better 😊

[@lienduyck3411]

Is it possible to have 'small' dissociations each day. I had a bad evaluation at work. They say that I don't seem present at times. I know I do this at home. Didn't know I do this at work. So are these dissociations? I have PTSD and had dissociations in the past.

[@jasminestone4676]

I recently got diagnosed with moderate episode depression disorder. I had to trigger a episode in the doctor office, because I couldn't get the word out(I went mute in a dissociation state). And now I feel like I manipulation her. I feel two-face. I can't stop thinking about it. To the point if obsesses. I feel guilty. How can I stop obsessing over it? But needed the diagnosis to understand myself.

[@frost6272]

We had to laugh at the “you wouldn’t shit talk yourself for getting covid” oh wait, yeah we did. The best explanation for structural dissociation we heard was primary was compartmentalization ptsd flashbacks re-experiencing, secondary was bpd emotions and memories run the show and are hard to connect or stay connected to/understand, and tertiary was did osdd. Levels of separation.

[@kat-75]

I held the emotions without the memories of much deep trauma. That's a real thing.

[@brittanywilcox7377]

You are describing classic DID 😭😭😭😭 that's exactly what it is. It's extreme compartmentalization. To the point that the person with DID does not remember the trauma and it's an automated process. We have no control over it

[@Bea_triceP]

Thanks Kati and thanks to all the brave people who asked the questions. It's always so helpful

[@justinslife727]

First 😊

[@peaceXdecaying]

Hi Kati! I recently started trauma therapy with a new therapist who draws heavily on the structural dissociation model. I've tried to do trauma therapy before but this is the first approach that feels like it will actually help. My therapist made me buy the workbook "Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma" by Janina Fisher but I also bought her other book "Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors: Overcoming Internal Self-Alienation" which is great but more for therapists if you're interested in learning more about structural dissociation. I think the basic idea is that disorders like C-PTSD, BPD, OSDD, and DID are all on a spectrum of structural dissociation, with DID obviously being the more extreme end, but all of them involve having different "parts" of the personality. Anyway, I'd recommend both books for anyone interested! I've also heard good things about "The Haunted Self: Structural Dissociation and the Treatment of Chronic Traumatization" but haven't personally read it.

[@sarahcouture24]

Externalization? I would call that disidentification… or perhaps even depersonalization… The theory of structural dissociation lies on a spectrum. Ptsd is on one end and DID is on the extreme end, with BPD, CPTSD, and OSDD in the middle. The farther you go down the spectrum, the more dissociated parts you have and the greater the disconnect, I believe.

[@brittanywilcox7377]

Noooo Kati noooo!!! We don't "become" other people!! We're all separate people! We don't "turn into" anyone else. We live together inside the body. I can answer any questions about that if you need

[@kathrinjohnson2582]

I didn't understand the difference between DID and this new thing she is talking about.

[@brittanywilcox7377]

@@kathrinjohnson2582 I can try to answer your question if you want to tell me which part of what she's talking about is confusing to you.

[@kathrinjohnson2582]

@@brittanywilcox7377 like how is structural dissociation not the same thing as DID

[@brittanywilcox7377]

@@kathrinjohnson2582 structural dissociation is a theory that DID is built from. Let me see if I can some resources for you that explain it better. Off the top of my head, the CTAD clinic KZbin channel is probably the best place to look

[@kathrinjohnson2582]

@@brittanywilcox7377 thank you so much