Division 2: I Am Getting Bored Of This Conversation

[@DodRegnbue]

Credit to Fog Of War for finding an error. Flatline is 15% Amp, not 20%. Guess what this changes? Nothing.

[@scooternut7198]

perfect flatline is 20 so dont be too hard on yourself !

[@Skagen42]

Hey Dod, Love your videos, the whole discussion on whos right and whos wrong, im not gonna go into, frankly I dont know 100% so I dont get involved, but I will say that as a console player, one thing that St. Elmos has done for me at least, is get me out of my skill build 2 blue 6 yellow Memento+ capacitor comfort zone that I have been sleeping in for far too long. St. Elmos has me running a 6 red strikers build now, and loving it, my handling with a controller isent enough that I can hit anything with a FAMAS, so that weapong is useless to me, where as the St. Elmos is a lazer beam way beyond its max range for me - so for that point alone its "shaken up" MY meta at least, and im loving it, keep on being yourself and never apologuise for speaking your truth !

[@DodRegnbue]

Yeah, Elmo's is a really good weapon. I will never say it is not, however, it is not THAT GOOD. Glad you are enjoying it, keep experimenting and pushing your limits.

[@reganheath]

As a PC player, now ~850 SHD level, I had a similar experience with St Elmo's. Until then I had been running DPS builds with extra survivability e.g. Heartbreaker, or 2pc Belstone, or Preservation, or something else to keep me alive. With St Elmos I finally managed to run an all red strikers build with nothing but the perks of Gunner spec to keep me alive. I suspect it's a combination of the built in crit chance attachments (allowing all crit damage mods in the build for higher total crit damage), mag size (allowing more missed bullets), and shock rounds (covering for some other TTK mistakes) that makes St Elmos a very forgiving weapon, and is likely why it's so popular. I think anyone who isn't already at the top of their game, can pick it up, and see an immediate performance improvement. I certainly have, as I am now able to run solo Heroic Ascent with 7 directives where I could not prior (I did 30 floors in a few hours last night, not record breaking I know). I am currently grinding for the pieces for a High-End DPS build including a decent Famas, as that's the next step on my journey I reckon ;)

[@Skagen42]

@@DodRegnbue Youve actully swayed me to reroll my 100 days played 4k SHD level xbox account that has everything from all seasons, and start over from scratch on PC, just to try and see if its more enjoyable in the end, and so far the difference in Aiming alone is miles improvement for me at least - now to get all my gear farmed again, and recal, and expertise.. oh man.. what have you done Mr. Rainbow ;)

[@nomex8461]

@@Skagen42 I switched to PC a year ago, messed with Gyro-Aim (which should be an option for console if now MnK support) and then ended up with Azeron Cyborg and a Swiftpoint Z. It's so tough to play on console with my old settings now (Game Freeks, no aim assist, super high sens).

[@Bloodarcher43]

Heres something these "oh my build is meta breaking" creators hate I dont care about Meta I play Division 2, because its a game, i play 6Blue Bulwark because i like being a target so my freind who likes being a sniper and Striker player, likes playing sniper and striker And want to know the diffrence between our two builds is He may do more DPS, but he's behind cover and able to be accurate BECAUSE he can be optimal with his choice of weapons are what he feels are best for him whilst my Regulus is comfortable to me TLDR Meta means jack to the average player, play what you enjoy playing, and if anyone says "oh you need this specific build" You can use whatever weapon you want, to do whatever you choose to do.

[@raulsantanamontoya1210]

Blank the haters keep on doing what you're doing brother I enjoy your content ✌️😎

[@DodRegnbue]

He is not a hater, he is a competator, and one I wish would succeed.

[@Eleva88]

Just wanted to know, if St. Elmo's is 4th, which ones are above it?

[@DodRegnbue]

Famas - F2000 - TKB - Then you have Police M4/St Elmo/and Honey Badger.

[@observan1]

Was just about to ask the same thing,lucky I went through the comments. Surprised not to see carbine 7 in there.i thought c7 would at least be better than honey badger.

[@Eleva88]

​@@DodRegnbue Thanks, I started running Famas Pristine Striker and Elmo feels different now. Wish that 8x scope had a different dot.

[@pelonwarfare2]

I saw Ikia video when it came out, the moment i saw EB on top and heard Coyote's for the long range buff i was just like "either someone doesnt know what hes talking about or lacks ALOT of experience" Playing ARs beyond 25M .... 🤔

[@LordPeinSama.]

Thank you for this video Dod! Always get to learn something from your videos :D at 13:55 what's the name that you mentioned who has around 95% accuracy? I would love to watch his gameplay, it sounds nuts!!

[@recon78]

Roterblitz. One of two insanely good Korean players that often teamed up and held a bunch of records. MullerT was the other main guy

[@LordPeinSama.]

@@recon78 oh okay, thank you :D

[@dw4897]

On that video I said it does not need a nerf, maybe a change with the mods or magazine.

[@arcanesoothsayer6758]

I agree with the point that raw dps at the shooting range doesn’t necessarily equal time to kill in the actual game in one scenario; Raw dps at the shooting range is not the same as dps in the game when and only when you are comparing brute dps on one gun with dps plus any status affect that either blinds, shocks, or locks the npc in place such as riot foam. Your gun may have more raw dps, but with npcs moving dodging, shooting back, and diving for cover, you’re not going to be able to land as many shots on target, especially at 15 plus meters out, or down that npc as quickly as a gun with slightly lower dps on a status locked npc that is frozen in place.

[@DodRegnbue]

The Range does not show DPS correctly. DPS does equate to Time to kill. DPS in the range is the same as DPS in the world, yes, granted enemies do this wonderful thing called moving, but this is not an issue with the build. This is on you. As the player. As such due to everyone being different, some shots being easier, some being harder, it is impossible to equate this, so there is no point.

[@arcanesoothsayer6758]

@@DodRegnbue yes but what I am saying is that using a gun or talent that status locks enemies so that they can’t move such as St Elmo’s or even the Scorpio shotgun results in you being able to bag free shots on a temporarily immobilized enemy resulting in faster time to kill in most cases. This is similar to how squads or teams doing speed runs will have one person using riot foam to immobilize enemies so that the dps players can follow up land more free shots on an immobilized npc, except in the case of St Elmo’s and Scorpio Shotgun, the gun is doing both the immobilization of the enemy npc and the shooting or dps at the same time. That is, a gun that has less dps in the shooting range , but in real world gameplay nets you more shots on target due to target being temporarily immobilized, if even for a second or two, and the weapon handling being so superb, people just love the look and feel of St Elmo’s Engine, it’s a crowd pleaser.

[@grantgooch5834]

@@arcanesoothsayer6758 >using a gun or talent that status locks enemies so that they can’t move Sounds like a skill issue. People use foam in legendaries so that you don't have to take fights from cover and so that the enemies stay clumped up to one shot them all with Regulus.

[@ChancySanah]

People wonder how they hit headshots on consoles...lot easier at 10m than it is at 50m.

[@DodRegnbue]

I know people on console that are more accurate than me on PC. I am aware I do not set the bar that high, but I get it all the time. "You can't do this on console" Yes you can.

[@kirkcrawford5091]

I never went for headshot myself until I got the EB 2 or 3 years ago. And it’s talent required headshots to take advantage of so I just started always shooting for the head and it didn’t take long at all to get much better at it. This game probably has one of the lowest skill ceilings to any shooter at least that I’ve played character movement is very slow compared to say destiny COD battlefield halo etc. Just takes some practice and head shooting with a controller is very feasible

[@M4RK_0]

I saw it yesterday and was like wish Dod would look at that and what do we have here today

[@troua2001]

I don't think burst dps is the end all be all. While famas will kill a single enemy around maybe 0.1s faster (which lets be honest, is miniscule) the St elmo will be killing 1 more enemy because of its 70 mag. I think killing an extra enemy per mag is better than 0.1s faster burst dps.

[@DodRegnbue]

I am not the best at explaining things, so I do apologise for my potnetially being the cause of this. I am not saying that Burst is "the end all be all". I would argue that it is most certainly the more important one. where other factors, like Magazine size, Reload, Accuracy, Stability do come in to play. But you can also just look at these as Supporting factors to Burst DPS. When it comes to time to kill, in solo, you are absolutely right. It works out to apoximately 0.17s, minescule, like you said. Now take that to 4 man scaling, it is now 1.38s. 4 Man Legendary 1.82s. Now this may very well just be how I have my builds set up, but, on my Striker's Famas build, I am able to kill 3 Elites, in solo, in one magazine. Regularly, crit ratios do somewhat play a factor, if I get bad RNG on the crits, it is more like 2.5 elites. If I play Focus Striker's, I can easily kill 4 Elites and still have 4 Bullets left over to kill a red (with headshots). Running the same test with Elmos. Due to lower Hit damage I can still only kill 3 Elites, admitedly, I am left with 4 or 5 bullets which could kill a red. Elmos, also does not benefit from Striker's. My main issue was the statement that Elmos is the highest DPS AR. Which is just completely factually incorrect.

[@patrickgeagan9509]

All I know is you did a video about the pros of glass cannon and I tried it. I never used it before because I felt I would die to easy. But now I can’t stop using on every build I have. Thanks for the confidence booster my friend.

[@Noz_420]

Great video Dod, I have learned so much from you in the past 6 months, I have unsubscribed to a number of bullshit channels that just throw shit out and it really doesn't work. I try the same build and I'm totally getting my ass handed to me in Heroic. You have numbers and spread sheets, as someone who works with math in my field numbers are numbers they tell what it is. I have progressed from challenging to Heroic from taking the information you put out. Sometimes I make a small tweak to fit my play style of your builds but for the most part you're spot on. Keep up the great work much appreciated. Don't die it's bad for your health :P

[@DodRegnbue]

Do not let me influence who you enjoy watching, though I am glad my content has helped you out. I am also SO GRATEFUL that you have adapted what I say to suit you. That is the entire point of what I do. Thank you!

[@D4RT-one]

Again? Again People think someone's authority can outweight math. Spoiler, it can't.

[@dw4897]

I stand 10 to 15m away, if not closer.

[@dw4897]

Think, it's good for the brain.

[@rickwooll1154]

right boys and girl's we are going to bang some nails in ,i know you have been told a hammer is what we need but if we listen to fog a master at work we need to find a slipper to bag that sucker in ???????

[@saintanubis6177]

Dod is 🤴

[@philosopheronamission5649]

Dod, I'ma need you to add a "dropped the mic" sound on the end of these videos.

[@DodRegnbue]

No, I genuienly want this person to succeed. We have tried talking, tried explaining, he does nto get it. And after so many people referencing his work, I just kind of broke.

[@rRobertSmith]

Interesting ranking at time 8:26 (I will use it from now on) but the gun at the very top is the Eager Beaver?! is it not? and number 4 should be the St. Elmo's Cap....to avoid confusion? I have never ever heard of or seen anyone use the FANAS or F2000 after looking at 120 or so builds, but will be on the look out for it in my melt down pile.

[@DodRegnbue]

Please do not use that list, it is 100% not even close to being accurate. It is also an old list, Elmo was not out at the time.

[@greinum]

Never imagined the division community got so much drama going on loooool

[@requiemagent3014]

Remnant 2 please. I don't want to pester you. But I enjoyed your content on the first game so much. Please

[@Knurrfaucher]

😈

[@DodRegnbue]

It is coming.

[@Knurrfaucher]

@@DodRegnbue yay 😊

[@ckeymille]

I'll still choose st. elmo, famas is good, but hurts my hand coz of stiffing when controlling the recoil. Been using famas for the longest time, and i haven't felt this relax when using st. elmo. "I can do more damage since i can play longer". Just kidding.

[@alexwise-]

You are starting a burst fatigue vs. sustained fatigue argument. I’m not taking the bait

[@hokkerville]

Thank God I am not KZbinr. Dealing stuff like that is annoying and stressful

[@jmc3971]

Never heard of this fog guy keep doing you bro can’t help everyone with critical thinking skills

[@toddmatelski4650]

Saw the FOW video this morning and was wondering if Dod would have anything to say about it!

[@M4RK_0]

Even if we take as truth that elmos is the new best ar why people like that want nerf all the time. Like u want to play with same guns from the launch of the game forever or what. Kinda point of games with updates to bring something new to the table

[@TenguXil]

Play with whatever weapons or build you like, the point is not to tell people it's the overall best DPS in the game when factually it can be proven otherwise.

[@allroch681]

You said astrology at 09:57 instead of astronomy. e.g. You're hole video is rong. boom. 😜 Oh, and my conclusion on st elmos headshot was the same: It's pointless because the scope can't be changed and you can't use focus. Past being able to change to dtoc, the lack of customizability hurt its potential for builds, it seems.

[@neilgibbs3880]

Give up Dod “you can’t fix stupid” 😂😂😂 9.59 you said Astrology ( study of fake rubbish ) instead of Astronomy ( study of everything in the universe and beyond ) Expect a very irate call from Prof Brian Cox very soon. 😂😂😂

[@DodRegnbue]

Yeah, I know.

[@scooternut7198]

@@DodRegnbue you might as well believe in Astrology its about as accurate as some of the less informed populist Div 2 content creators work . Dont be taken by style over substance id rather have your content knowing its going to be as good as it possibly can and your humble enough to correct when wrong too. you give whats optimal and thats good if as a player i want to go off piste i can try things knowing i can return to something solid by following your advice /content . i dont fault fog on the brain for trying , revisiting or trying to uncover some real world knowledge but concocting your own framework to work within ignoring some known facts is ridiculous by adding in difficult to quantify variables like adding in emotion, at best you will end up with some sort of skewed hyper postmodernity relativity whereby damage is relative only in a particular snap shot in time and not a repeatable phenomena.just because a person puts out a slick video doesnt excuse peddling nonsense wrapped up as fact its just carpetbagging online snakeoil keep true to your principles Dod

[@raymondpaulino7694]

Fact!!!!!!!!!!

[@pelesiren4959]

The problem with Fog is that he actually enters the realm of pseudoscience with the misinformation he promotes.

[@DodRegnbue]

I am not sure I would go that far, I feel he is more, using the wrong tools, for the wrong job, to show something that literally has no baring on the game.

[@elfmz]

Your accuracy is also a lie. The only mission I remember seeing your stats was a recent Roosevelt Island Legendary with a Focus, Striker and Famas was around 40%

[@recon78]

I have a few issues with what was presented here but 40-50% accuracy in RI with an AR build is totally normal given the much larger open areas and spread of enemies compared to DUA/Capitol where it would be more like 60-70%.

[@elfmz]

@@recon78 yes, totally normal. Problem is he is flexing an accuracy that he does not have. As he is totally diverting from the real issue. Suggest you watch both Rengbue and Fog of War videos about st Elmo’s and draw your own conclusions

[@mikerzisu9508]

@@elfmzyou can’t be possibly suggesting you support a nerf to the elmos

[@elfmz]

@@mikerzisu9508 no, not at all. Like it as it is and it’s already been nerfed since the PTS. All good

[@stevo6ix]

I think I heard him say that accuracy number because it was done with head Hunter's fury build which is very plausible.

[@inceneration]

I LOVE IT... Keep it up @Dod-Regnbue Simply just beautiful xD Wished i could play with you :P I have so many questions you 100% would be able to answer without a doubt :D

[@dh1380]

St elmos sucks man i just dont use it. Funny how i murk everyone in the game not using it

[@notsogoodgamer3115]

I don't get how people are saying St elmos is a dps gun its clearly a utility weapon you can tell just by reading the guns info and it's crazy that you had to make this video

[@DodRegnbue]

I feel it is both. Sure, it;s description and talent certainly do lean that way. Though, those attachments . . . . . .

[@notsogoodgamer3115]

@DodRegnbue I guess the devs wanted it to feel powerfull instead of just a status Procker

[@lElitePanda]

Dod ⬆️1 👏👏not sure why people put out videos that aren’t factual. Doesn’t make sense to me. Will always appreciate this community within at least BroSquad. Always room for knowledge but the support will always be there.

[@Ekowitt]

keep doing what you doing and don´t waste time with hater´s best regards from germany

[@bobbygee9987]

Your content is A+ as always, but referencing Brian Coxs and his claim of the big bag is a miss 4 me. like gravity are you aware that TBBT is just a theory not fact? Nathanoakley1980 done a debunking Brian Coxs video and just like your videos it was class. keep up the great work.👍👍👍👍

[@elfmz]

You are wrong on this one and Fog of War is correct. I disagree with a lot of assumptions on damage calculations of Fog of War but he is absolutely right on this one It's very dishonest on your side to present arguments that have nothing to do with the St. Elmo's including it's different take on damage calculations and optimal range, both of which I also do not agree but have nothing to do with the St. Elmo's It's amazing 17 minutes rambling and nothing about St Elmos :)

[@DodRegnbue]

What makes you think this was just about St Elmo? Adding your own narrative again. This is me stating, that as far as i have seen, and as far as many others have seen, every single piece of his content is misleading and wrong. There are many communities that just outright delete any mention of him as it is most likely incorrect. There are no assumptions on damage calculations, we know exactly how they work, so you disagreeing with them is you disagreeing on the fundamental principle of how the game itself work, which is either mind numbingly stupid of you or incredibly arrogant. As such, there is no different take, there is how the game calculates it, and there is wrong. Weird how so many others, both people and games all use and EPS system to calculate these things, to great accuracy, except Fog, and because of his take on it, it has left him alienated from much of the community. "It's amazing 17 minutes rambling and nothing about St Elmos" You clearly did not watch or at the very least understand the video as the over arching tone of the ENTIRE video is how stupid his take on that weapon is.

[@elfmz]

@@DodRegnbue yes, we both disagree on new DPS formulas, but this latest video was not about that. Yes, he does a lot of content I disagree as the optimal range but he also produces invaluable content, like the average damage in Heroic and CPs. I agree he is controversial and wrong in some cases but also brilliant in others and if the topic is the St Elmo’s being the best AR he is right and even you also agree as you’re mostly playing with it

[@DodRegnbue]

They are are not "new DPS formulas" They are wrong, calling them anything else is a disservice to so many people that actually put the time and effort in testing these things. Oddly, I am actually subbed to him, I have watched all of his videos, and thus far, not one of them is even close. And again. NO. ST ELMOS IS NOT THE BEST AR. Even now, 90% of my in game time is spent on a Head Hunter's Fury Build. My most used weapon is the M870, and if I just want to limit this to an AR, it is Shield Splinterer, even now. Elmos sits comfortably in 4th place with the Police M4 and Honey Badger (Build Dependant). The moment you make it s Spotter Build, Elmos Drops to 15th. And if we make a Focus Build, 19th. There are ar to many variables that come into play that Elmos cannot even compete in. As such, there is literally no way for Elmos to be the best AR. And just because you see someone play with it, is not cause for evidense. "Finders keepers" does not work in the real world. This is again, you making up your own narrative.

[@elfmz]

@@DodRegnbue you’re the one setting the narrative. Told you on your first St Elmo’s video you were wrong about Burst and Sustained DPS with facts but you still chose to ignore math. If it was KVD I would understand but I expected higher standards from you. Let’s remember: 1-St Elmo’s is by far the highest sustained DPS AR, your answer: sustained DPS means nothing. 2-When you’re killing NPC waves with the large mag with St Elmo’s and say you only need burst DPS and I pointed out to the fact that when you’re using more bullets than the ones Famas has you’re using/comparing sustained and not burst you just give me a nutty answer because you simply have no arguments to sustain your position

[@DodRegnbue]

"Sustained DPS - Continued DPS on a single target after a reload". This is the factual definition of the term, even the damn military use it. So, if I am killing enemies within a single magazine, then I am simply not entering Sustained DPS. The fact is, you have this completely and utterly wrong.

[@Brascofarian]

I would not even both to comment on this if the theme of this video wasn't about accuracy of claims..BUT... "If you are playing at 40m, you are not playing optimally." What if, at 40m you have cover but less than 40m you don't? By your rationale, it's better to get out of cover and fight, but if you have 5 adds shooting at you, you're gonna last about 2 seconds tops. I wish you would stop making sweeping statements. I think you are making good points, but you need to be a bit more cautious in your claims. Sure, you need to be aware that you are doing less damage at 40m and closing in, when possible is the going to lead to be a good strategy, but if you close to optimal range and then are persistently stun locked because you keep getting hit, you are not going to do more damage than at sub-optimal range. AND You also made the claim that St Elmo's was the new meta. I this video, you act like it's an absurd claim. WTF?

[@ShockBot127]

Most Brits have a slight God complex imo. No surprise to me...

[@miguelfigueroa5659]

Just come over and play remant 2 .... these devs actually care about their product and the game alredy shows it

[@DodRegnbue]

One more day.

[@miguelfigueroa5659]

@@DodRegnbue 12 archetypes so far

[@derekofbaltimore]

Bruh i respect both of yall but you fell apart talking down on accuracy Your argumentation is weakened because you have many many times said this or that weapon is the best in the game (chameleon for etc) but the poot accuracy means its waste of time to use it. Youve literally used the accuracy argument in your favor many times And then in this video you said "the way i play vs the way you play" to downplay his choice of build based around the range hed prefer to play at but you had several videos were you talked down on run and gun builds when you clearly don't play the way those guys play You cant have it both ways Whether he gets the damage calculations wrong is for the data miners and i admit i know less about this game then your kid sister but in argumentation you need to clean that up Dont claim one thing in one video (the fact you cant find a realistic opportunity to take advantage of ridgeway pride) as gospel and then ignore his claims about accuracy being a component in damage calculations. Its not intellectually rigorous

[@69325]

BYE 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@marlonblade007]

Boomer, how? 😅

[@TheBigBlueMarble]

As I said earlier, we are going to have to agree to disagree, but I would ask you to perform one simple test. Go to the shooting range, set the target at Invulnerable and 45m. Then, compare the AR that you think does the most damage with the St. Elmo's. Compare them by loading 20 rounds in the mag and see what % of the rounds land on target from each weapon. In my tests, without any gear mods, I averaged as below: Famas: 10 Carbine 7: 14 Eagle Bearer: 13 Bighorn: 3 St. Elmo's Engine: 19 Not completely scientific, but the difference between St. Elmo's and the others makes more accurate measurements unnecessary. Yes, 45m is a bit far, but it simply magnifies the existing difference between the various ARs

[@GuerraPt]

Well if you cant hit the target ots your problem really. I have more acuracy with the famas than the st elmos. But that just me that play with famas for years.

[@p0m1k]

This test is totally useless if i want to shoot at enemy that far away i would use MMR or RIFLE not an AR or like DOD said just get closer to the target.

[@Knurrfaucher]

Try to play "FAMAS only" for a week... I'm sure you will hit more than 10 bullets. (so after this week you would have destroyed your own claim by yourself) If we take "player skill and experience with certain weapons" into account, this whole shit would escalate to rocket science. The whole 45m thing just makes no sense. If you are not a cover hugging pussy... you can move, you know? You can fire with Elmo on 45 meter, while I (with FAMAS) would need 2-3 seconds to get close to 15-20 meters, and there I would be on maximal damage range... this means I would kill my enemys faster and will surely make up for the time loss while moving. So what next? Claiming marksmanrifles are better than shotguns and we should compare them on 50m+? If I ever see a serious list of gun rankings that takes into account 1.) Player skill and experience with certain guns 2.) New calculations of the entire list, all 10 meters up to 50m 3.) The mood and physical capability of the tester maybe then I'm willing to invest more time into this confusing mess.

[@TheBigBlueMarble]

@@GuerraPt it's not a matter of how good you are with the weapon, but how accurate the weapon is. A perfectly aimed weapon will not always hit the target. That is the result of less than perfect accuracy.

[@TheBigBlueMarble]

@@p0m1k you can only have two weapons loaded at once. And no rifle can deliver near the DPS of an assault rifle in close quarters combat.

[@Daniel-bm3fm]

Dod= Mr Toxic

[@DodRegnbue]

I would argue spreading misinformation is more toxic than calling out that misinformation.

[@Romanus-]

Calling anyone toxic is gay