DIY Wireless Microphone RF Distribution

[@kenreighard8493]

This is a rather well-done and -documented presentation. Thank you for making it, as it may save smaller churches who have a tech-savvy volunteer a significant amount of money. A few observations are in order: First, -3 dB is half-power, not half-amplitude. Half-amplitude is -6 dB. This is because power is proportional to the square of amplitude. Second, the Shure claim that its splitter introduces a 2-dB insertion loss is a bit optimistic. As you correctly point out, when the power of the input signal is split two ways, there will be a 3-dB loss from the input to either one of the outputs. We would expect a little more than a 3-dB loss, because the circuits in the splitter are not perfect. Third, with the 1/4-wave monopole antennas, any metal nearby will affect the antenna's pattern; it will not be omnidirectional. Even a piece of wire (the power or audio cable to a nearby piece of equipment,) if it is within a wavelength of the antenna and parallel to it, will introduce a change in the antenna's pattern. Fourth, an amplified (active) splitter is not necessary in all cases. If you have a directional antenna with 6 dB of gain over the stock monopole, it will practically balance out the loss in a 4-way splitter. The downside of an active broadband splitter is that in an area with strong, nearby television transmitters, the TV signals can overload the amplifier and cause intermodulation products to be formed, which may likely interfere with the microphone signals. Or, it can amplify a strong TV signal enough to overload the RF "front end" of the wireless-mic receiver. One of the features of the active splitters furnished by the microphone-system manufacturers is that they typically have filters to restrict their amplification only to signals within the tuning range of the microphone systems. Lastly, while your antenna rack is neat and compact, the close proximity of a transmitting antenna to receiving antennas can cause intermod problems in the receiver. It is good engineering practice to keep transmitting antennas several wavelengths away from a receiving antenna, especially when the transmitter is in the same frequency band as the receivers. There are systems where the transmitter and receiver can share the same antenna while in simultaneous operation, but those systems typically use a directional coupler to keep the transmitter's RF output from entering the receiver input. Ken Reighard, AC3GC

[@HackingHollywood]

I'm excited to try this! What a brilliant idea, and how cool is it to see someone use their knowledge and skills to help others.

[@davidstone921]

Brilliant Drew, I discovered your post almost by accident! I have been doing the same type of distribution system over here in the U.K. for over 30 years. I'm just upgrading our Church system, & have just checked the new kit out in my workshop. Amazingly, I also have the same test gear as you, & am also a licenced radio amateur, and retired broadcast engineer. We've just upgraded from a very archaic VHF dual diversity system which had fixed antennas, all crammed into a cupboard at the back of the church building. There wasn't even sufficient space to extend the relatively long, VHF antennas, so you can imagine the amount of drop-outs! I was reliably informed that the previous installation was done by a 'Professional'... I had to convince our church that I was saving them money. Thanks again, nice to know we're 'singing from the same hymn-sheet'!

[@livingstones1196]

As far as the power distribution dilema, at our church, we just used a power inverter/DC supply with multiple connectors built into the cable which we just plug into each receiver then we don't have to deal with the bulky plugs. I've already built mine based on your info and tested it and it works. We just need to get all the receivers and our Mackie Dl32R off the stage and into our media room but this is really exciting stuff and the amount of money saved is well worth the build. Thank you for sharing Drew!

[@ToddAGardner]

THANKS for taking the time to do this for your church and then the SHARE this with us. Very well done, and well explained!!

[@markwinslow2449]

I have 8 wireless mics. I just made it simple with 2 shure antenna distribution units and remote antennas. Works great

[@davidwedderburn9200]

Drew, thanks for this video although I'm late to the party. I do the sound at my church as well and I'm pretty new to it with no formal training at all. Just the interest and the love of figuring out and solving issues that is driving me, along with the need to serve! I'm also dealing with wireless Mic dropouts and really need to look into ways to better that overall for the church services experience. I inherited a system that was pretty old and setup in a sound room that has huge metal shutter gates that kind of encase the sound room to prevent intrusion. The room is small and contains equipment for basically two sound systems; the older system that has old ceiling speakers installed through the two floor building and then the newer speakers that is made of up just the house main speakers and the floor up front subwoofer with switches to enable the old speakers in in each room an area of the building. I really is taken by your video on RF distribution. Thank you for doing the legwork and being willing to share it. I want to know if this setup would work well for wireless microphones that are not rack mounted but are the Shure PGX4, the BLX4, and the BLX288 dual system as well? They all either have no antennas or the whip antennas. Thanks very much Drew.

[@gibsonmb1]

Further point of note, if you only need to feed 4 radio mics ( true for Sennheiser at least) then the Sennheiser passive ASP splitter can be picked up used on ebay for about £170, it also has the power distro included BUT not via the antenna, still has 4 separate 13VDC outputs from it but at least you only need one PSU. If you have G3 units, you can get a more expensive splitter that feeds the DC via the antenna fro about £600 used... but then you might as well go with the solution here. In the UK you will want a TV splitter with a 4G filter, they are about £15. Try to get the version with f-connectors, not the old TV coax connector.

[@wellend89]

The ASP-1 unit is passive (with four receivers connected you get ~14db of loss) so you also need to use the Sennheiser antenna amplifiers.

[@chrismitlyng1411]

This is pure gold Drew! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience on this. I will be replicating this for my band ASAP!!

[@JStevensdk7]

This is an old video but there is a very cost effective solution now from Phenyx Pro model PAS-225X comes with powered distribution unit and two directional antennas for only $340

[@leistico]

I'm in the middle of implementing this setup right now, thanks to your advice and research here. Got my antennas, cables, tools, and an RF Explorer for before, during and after testing. Thank you for this work! You're saving my theatre a ton of money they don't have so that we can get rid of the pops and dropouts from our musicals (24 channels - what a horserace to mix! And tune/set up!)

[@DrewBrashler]

+leistico That is awesome! Take some photos and let me know how the build goes for you!

[@leistico]

+Drew Brashler Hey there. Just now getting back to you, and I have to say the setup I put together is working like a champ! I don't know how to post pics here, but what I've got is a stage that's 35 feet wide, and a booth that's about 60 feet away with a rack of 12 SLX receivers (with room for hopefully four more, if the budget numbers pan out!). What I did was make booms for the LPDA antennas about 20 feet from the edge of the stage extreme left and right of the house, about 12 feet in the air, each angled off vertical about 15-20 degrees (they're fastened to coves above and along the side of the house), and each ran back to a 2 way passive splitter to two of the eight way active splitters, to make sixteen lines out for each side of the receivers. The only concern I had from the LPDA antennas is that according to my measurements (with the RF Explorer), the noise floor went up to around -70db. That's pretty high based on what I've seen in your video. Fortunately I think I overcame that when I moved the antennas from the booth (60 feet from the edge of the stage) to their current position (25 feet from the edge of the stage. I might have set up "zones" rather than diversity, but all I know is that we just did a production of "The Producers" with that system in place and there was nary a single signal dropout in any of the mics (10 of them H5 and 2 G4, the H5's are tuned 1 MHz apart from 518 to 527), which was a massive improvement from past productions. I could even pick up clearer signal from the green room for PFL signal checks, which is odd as the green room is now 70 feet away from the antennas, through a cinder block wall, in the opposite direction of the antennas from the stage, so even with the elevated noise floor signal reception has improved dramatically. Thank you for all the amazing work you did here and allowing me to learn from what you found out here!

[@livingstones1196]

I am a bit confused about the SMA to BNC connector cable. Shouldn't the other end of this adapter cable be "F" connector? Would I then need to adapt from BNC to F to connect to the splitter? I'm hoping you could clear this up for me. Thanks

[@leistico]

Hi there. The way I did it: soldered a bare-end of coax cable to the antenna, ran to a F connector, to a two-way splitter, to the 8-way distro/amp, to my receiver, all with F-ended cables but with a F to BNC adapter screwed onto the cable that attaches to my receiver. I soldered the bare coax cable to the antenna because I could get away with it, and it saved me having to use a circuit-board-to-SMA connector and an SMA to F adapter of some sort. I hope that clarifies how I made my adaptation of the system work.

[@dadondada41]

Hi Leistico, David Kpe 1 second ago Please did you use the ' Mini-Circuits ZBSC-8-82+' for the IEMs or you used a different splitter?

[@johnwu777]

Great job. Thanks for sharing your expertise.

[@BohicaJones22]

This is a great video. At my church we have a porcupine tower of receivers. This seems like a very practical DIY project. Thank you :)

[@tricamel]

At our church we have just upped our radio mic number to 8 and we now have shocking intermodulation problems and I have been looking for a way to resolve this. The obvious thing was an external aerial multicoupler device and I have been getting very depressed about the GBP £1300 hit that this was going to cost. I too noticed that TV distros run the same frequencies and was going to give what you did a try, I was more concerned about excessive gain and quality issues than losses but I am thrilled to see what you have done and that it works. Great tip about the aerials, that is so much better than the £150 for the same thing in a fancy holder and good to know the impedance change has so little effect. I was also about to fork out a load of money on Belden RG8 cable......Re power, we had a hunt around and found a suitable transformer and linked all the recievers together using a custom lead wired in parallel. worked a treat, super neat and 1 plug!Thank you so much for your work.

[@pointer333]

Antennas won't help with intermod! Intermod is produced by the interaction between the transmitters. You need(ed) frequency coordination, not necessarily better antenna. Get "FreqFinder" for your smart phone and learn how to use it! Ask me if you need help. :) That, combined with scanning, and finding open airspace, should fix your (3 year old) problem.

[@johnlackner1193]

Great vodeo! I was always wondering if consumer-grade TV signal amplifiers/splitters/combiners, etc would work with wireless mic antennas, since the frequencies are similar. For a lot less money than the "pro" stuff. (This seems to be an industry secret). Also, the results of using 50 ohm vs. 75 ohm cables. You answered my questions!

[@markwinslow2449]

If you use a RF explorer you need either the pro audio or plus model. Regular RF explorer models only have 112 pts/scan. You need to do about 10 scans per band to get enough resolution. Pro audio and plus models have 4097 data points

[@richardpowell4667]

Hey, you use RG6 quad. I'm about to do something similar (but way smaller scale) and was advised to use the standard RG58 (50ohm) cable and just have the adapters BNC to F-type. Also, if you chang the positions of the amplifiers (or have a patch panel connected to the most important mics) and changed the connection types to "push on" F-type, if one amp fails, you can quickly change from one amp to the other. CON: pushons are more easily removed by 'accident'. Thanks for the indepth video. I'm going to start using a small LPD antenna for my DJ shows! Nice.

[@derickmcwilliams8089]

Excellent! Smart!. Thanks for the encouragement! Your data(at 16:05) actually shows that the TV splitter has 1dB less loss....

[@DH4Hobbies]

Been using this for over a year and never a glitch. Thanks bud

[@dadondada41]

Great to hear, did you use the ' Mini-Circuits ZBSC-8-82+' for the IEMs or you used a different splitter?

[@mauriciovelez4120]

Hi Drew, We are missing your videos, please keep them coming.

[@DrewBrashler]

+Mauricio Velez Hey Mauricio! I just started making videos again, so keep watching for the new updates! Just posted a video about the Fair Compressor effect.

[@ssmorgan1978]

Awesome video Drew!!! You're always so informative with your videos. I will be building one of these very soon when my church gets its permanent facility completed.

[@dadondada41]

Hi Shaun, David Kpe 1 second ago Did you use the ' Mini-Circuits ZBSC-8-82+' for the IEMs or you used a different splitter?

[@CraigRogerBaumgart]

Awesome stuff. I noticed you have your iem transmitters and microphone receivers in the same rack. Your antenna was also set up with the iem transmitter in close proximity (between) the receiving antennas. Does this cause RF interference issues? I am building a self contained rack that contains all my gear in one rack. Behringer Xair, Sennheiser mic, Sennheiser iem, and line 6 g90 guitar. I've used it for years but often had rf interference. It's undergoing a redesign. I'm thinking of lining the rack with RF blocking material like copper tape, and using RF blocking material to isolate the iem unit from the guitar and mic units in the rack. Then using external antenna similar to yours.

[@xpertsounddhariwal2303]

Very good knowledge about RF I hope u will answer my question I have x32 mixer with 32 in 16 out io stagebox

[@RyanF470]

Drew, Power distro is even easier to work out than is the RF Distribution. Most rf receivers work with anything from 9V to 18V, so getting a LARGE (high amperage) 12V power brick. Then creating your Power Break out cables. Total should cost

[@Russwig]

As far as Power Distribution goes, I have had good results using 5A 12VDC power supplies intended for surveillance cameras and coaxial (5.5 x 2.1 mm) splitters feeding 12 Shure SLX4 receivers. My Musical Theater rig consists of 2 racks of 12 SLX4s per, each powered by one 5A supply. The original Sure PS20/21's are rated at 400mA and the SLX4's claim to draw 130mA each. You could probably get away with 2A power supplies but the difference in cost is negligible. I get the power supplies and splitters form MCM Electronics for about $25 per 12 SLX4s.

[@luissolano101]

Thanks for your comment By any chance would you recommend one if im using 5 SLX4's thanks again

[@nicholastanchak7922]

Great instructional video. Deployed a similar solution at our Church. Works well especially when using powered splitter. Any chance I could get your advice on preventing overdriving the signal? Appreciate it.

[@richardpowell4667]

Hi, seems Drew is offsite or offworld. To prevent overdrive or clipping, you want to either attenuate your input or reduce your amplification. All amplifiers will have a maximum output. If it says 100db Max Out, and your input is 75dB and it amplifies by 30dB, you need to get a different amp or attenuate your signal by 5-10dB.

[@postrichjr]

Outstanding video. It is the BEST real-world educational video I've ever seen on KZbin. I've watched it more than 5 times. Please read the rest... First, I thought I'd share a tip. Amazon has LTE Filters that will only allow 5-700Mhz to pass through and attenuate all the cellular noise in the 700+ frequencies. I highly suspect that this will increase everyone's signal to noise ratios, especially when a few hundred cell phones are in your receiving areas. Let me know if anyone tries it. I have one on order as I'm not yet finished building the setup yet. In the video, you are using the RG6Q Coax and F-type connectors for the entire run. Is that better than doing F->BNC connectors at the splitter and running everything in BNC 50ohm Coax. I know that you said you don't lose much in the conversion, but do you think there would be a difference? Are the supplies cheaper, less lossy, or easier to work with or do you save signal by switching to 75ohm once at the receivers? Do you (or does anyone) have any diagrams of the setup and/or links to the entire parts list. Also any detail on the specifics of how tests were taken (software setup) with the RF Explorer would be useful too... I have the LPDAs and straight SMA board connectors (along with the RF Explorer). I was hoping for an 90degree connector to run the cable without slack along the feed line of the LPDA and drill holes and zip tie it to the board. I heard that the coax works best when run along the center of the board. I have been looking for a 12" SMA male to BNC female cable without luck. I am now thinking of taking a 75 foot 50 Ohm BNC cable and cutting it in half and soldering the cut ends (so 10m or so) right to the board. This way I can run 50 Ohm the lengths and convert at the splitter/distribution box. Not sure if that would be any better or worse, but it will allow for more flexibility to run different antennas, without needing to get into the rack (as I run mobile sound for events). I saw that you have the two antennas on different planes for signal polarization, but isn't there also some benefit from greater physical difference separation. Don't experts recommend at least a half wavelength apart in distance? Not sure about that, but I heard it somewhere. I hope people are still seeing these comments and that hopefully someone replies... Be safe and take care... :-)

[@richardpowell4667]

Hey, noice tip. You can also get block filters, so they might help too!

[@huey8431]

Thank you so much for the detailed DIY project. I completed this last week and worked perfectly for me!

[@redneckbrit3041]

Thank you kindly for producing such an extensive video and providing the results to back up what you did for the haters! I'm going to try the printed circuit log-periodic antennas with my Shure UA845, just wondering if you'd ever given them a light coat of spray paint and if that affected the performance as they're going to be rather visible where I wish to use them..?

[@HackingHollywood]

I am also going to give my Log antennas a coat of matte black. Apparently on the manufactures website it says it won't effect performance. That question was asked a few times in this thread, and the other common question was about power. Maybe Drew can do a followup about power distro. Some commenters say that it's fairly easy, but I am still nervous to power up thousands of dollars of gear with just a few bucks of power supplies. Thoughts?

[@tjgonzo]

Drew, awesome video! Can you give me any more info on the combining side of things? Did you do any tests for the IEMS??

[@danielldeon]

Hey, nice post! I always wondered about making my own amplified antenna distro system for wireless mics. Thanks for taking the time.

[@bradherle2519]

With this setup, how long of cable do you think could you use to connect the antennas before requiring a signal amplifier?

[@richardpowell4667]

Probably already got it sorted, but for anyone else: Signal loss depends on frequency, distance and type of cable. EG: RG11 coax loses 3.5dB @ 400 MHz while RG58 loses 11.2! The primary loss is in the splitters. An amplifier is to compensate for the loss. So work out your loss, then you know how much you need to gain with the amplifier.

[@Michaelson100]

Drew, I have contacted a rep from PCT and they have discontinued the PCT-VB-8U. The rep recommends using the PCT-VC-9UIP in lieu. This replacement also offers VOIP. I'm not sure if I need the extra, is there a cheaper version that you are aware of. This new unit is $46.99..... Any suggestion? And thanks for all of your expertise and willingness to share.

[@DrewBrashler]

Yes, the PCT-VC-9UIP is a great replacement for the PCT-VB-8U!

[@arashandarmin]

I receive radio waves when i hook up my pearl man tm1 mic into pre amp, its really bad you can actually hear the music from the radio! I have tested them in another location it works perfect. I have tried changing the mic cables into star quad cables and bought a power conditioner and still having the same problem! it looks like the 7pin mic cable is acting like an antenna do you know how do i solve the problem??? Regards

[@tombaxter4717]

+Arash Armin That kinda sounds like an overcrowded frequency issue where you're using the same frequency as the station. Maybe change that?

[@ironblast5]

I know this a old video im curious if you have done any upgrades and/or found a more effective aproach for power?

[@sgmstudios6346]

Hello im ordering supplies now but cant find the 400-1000 antenna, just the 600-6000. Will that work????? Thank you for all the info

[@nbo1337]

Hi Drew, regarding the iem combiner, how do you think it compares to other companies RF venue etc. Do you still use it at your church? Is the difference between these products just power distribution?

[@harrij.9542]

Can different band receivers share a common antenna? I have Band 7 and Band 8 units in the same rack. Thanks,

[@dennisneuhaus2607]

Thank you for your video. You did a great job explaining everything and I was able to follow this for the most part. However, I do have a question, can you explain a simple set-up for a very limited sound person regarding a multi wireless mic, single rack mount receiver (4 slots) to receive the signal at 30-75 ft. using OEM antennas? I designed my own rack system (made from wood and metal), which hides the antennas inside. I am thinking the antennas need to some how be mounted outside of the rack when in use. Any ideas? Maybe 1 fin antenna with multi splitter?

[@jamesmaybury7452]

Fantastic insight, I feel a bit daft having not realised the implications that we are playing in the same ballpark as TV signal world. Does this mean that standard tv antennas could be used instead of the expensive ‘paddles’ that are available to me in UK?

[@bob61976]

Wow! Just deployed the system at my church - and the wireless mics are finally performing as expected. The extra gain coupled with proper antenna placement has made a huge difference. Although, Drew, if you got your ears on......I did the same kind of mount for the PCB antennas with 1/2" pvc - how did you get the antennas to stay put? I tried some hot glue, it didn't work. Kinda afraid to use epoxy or superglue (chemical heat) - the answer is I don't want to damage the antennas. Any advice? Ok - went to Lowes - bought beam clamps and clamped them on the back of the pvc pipe and clamped the antennas in there - and it's not the best looking thing on the planet - but let me tell you - IT WORKS BEAUTIFULLY! Working perfectly combining signals from 5 Shure SLX - 4 @ ~520Mhz, 1 @ ~650Mhz and an AT @514Mhz - beautiful signal -even though the antennas are 50' from the booth where the receivers are. Did learn that the 45 degree angles definitely make a difference - much less receiver action switching between antennas. Total cost was less than $120 for the entire setup - I couldn't be happier! Two weeks in now - and we've yet to hear any switching noise, have even one bit of interference or anything. Much more confidence now in a crowded RF environment like this church (right off a major interstate and literally 100's of towers around and bad electric in the building) with the wireless mics! Thank you DREW!!!!

[@theamzngq]

I just jumped on the band wagon here and almost finished with my set up. You might be interested in this 3D printable mount I designed (it's going on top of my wireless case): www.dropbox.com/s/unn0v877xg3rjv6/antenna%20mount.JPG?dl=0

[@jabbajawz]

Bob Nolan. What RF Splitters did you use? I can't find the ones he listed and definitely not any at his listed price.

[@portainfericz]

Hi Drew.. What will we need to do a system for our 5 IEM working in UHF - 500-650MHz ? Only ZBSC-8-82+ + Antenna ?? Could you do a short manual how to do it please ? Many thanks

[@tontobi3039]

You mentioned the Signalloss by converting 50 to 75 Ohms, but you’re dealing with much worse problems by doing this. When you don’t use a full 50 ohm System you can create reflections in the cable which degrade your signal, it might have the same Amplitude but will lack in Information in the Signal, so I would strongly recommend to stay in 50 Ohms and try to find some splitter with this impedance.

[@patdrumm3770]

This is absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much for all of this research and work.

[@leistico]

This is some kind of brilliant. I've got a rack of 13 (soon to be 16) SLX's and BLX's that I need a solution for, for a theatre group I work with in a space where I have signal "black holes" on stage (varying with frequency/transmitter), and there's nowhere near the $$$$ for a full-on Shure antenna and power distro (2 paddles, amps, 5 distros in a two-tier cascade, etc). I can live with the wall warts. Questions: considering the boost from the paddle antennas being up/away from the rack space and the rest of the clutter in the booth, would a 2-way passive splitter from the antenna going to 2 8-way active splitters on each side of the diversity mess up the signal gains too much, or add much noise to the signal? Is it better to have the paddles on one mast set off at 45 degree angles, or would I get more mileage out of having one paddle house left and one house right? As my booth is back of house-left, would the difference in antenna lead length add issues to the system if done that way (one would be about 10', the other about 70')? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

[@abescheele]

+leistico a two way passive splitter will bring another 3db of signal loss, ideally the system would operate at unity. Signal amplifiers near the aerials are the best way to tackle this. This way you are not amplifying the noise picked up on the cables. It is better to have the aerials spaced at least 19" apart (ideally 3ft), this provides better antenna diversity. Having the aerials spaced too far apart (house left and house right for example) is a bad idea as you end up in a situation where you have two separate zones, the microphone being picked up on the nearer aerial. This sounds like a good idea but by creating zones with like this there is no diversity. Make sure you have good diversity and get the aerials as close to the stage as possible. if it is a really wide stage it is possible to set up two aerials either side, creating two zones with diversty.

[@JeffPelletierBabaJonan]

It may be noted/commented elsewhere, but just in case you're coming late to this (after 2020) the Rf spectrum for wireless microphones has changed. If you are still operating 600MHz gear, you could find yourself in a heap of trouble...

[@brandonmarek5743]

This was so incredibly helpful. thank you so much!!!! Quick question...can you paint the Log Periodic Antennas? If so I can not wait to test this out at my church!

[@fitinatfaith]

I painted mine flat black. They work perfectly. At other churches have painted flat white to blend. Frankly never had any kind of issue at all. Hope this helps. I'd stay away from glossy spray paint - just 'cause I think it's counter-productive. Probably not scientifically sound advice. :-)

[@karlm9674]

Drew, Can I ask you to clarify the hook up between the antenna and the splitter? What wire type did you use? Did you solder it directly to the antenna or did you solder a connection to it first?

[@johnlackner1193]

Do those TV splitters pass DC power for active paddle antennas?

[@z777g]

Excellent low dollar quality solution, thanks for the video.

[@barccat]

Drew, when you guys used those front mounted omni directional antennas what was the average distance from transmitters to the wireless mics (for example) without fuzz or noticable signal loss? I'm in a professional cover band and am looking to mount my IEM box and Sennheiser WIreless box next to each other in a 4U rack case with front Omni antennas. Just looking for your own experience? Thank you! Great video.

[@ambychua]

Excellent video. Thanks so much for sharing your expertise. It helped our non-profit group save a lot of money.

[@DrewBrashler]

+amby chua That is so exciting to hear! Keep up the good work!

[@dadondada41]

David Kpe 1 second ago Hi Amby, Please did you use the ' Mini-Circuits ZBSC-8-82+' for the IEMs or you used a different splitter?

[@EditEd4TV]

Drew, have you experienced any issues in connecting this DIY system to Shure ULX series? Seems as though the system I built will work fine with the Shure BLX4R receivers, but it's hit and miss with Shure ULXP4 and ULXS4 receivers - they literally shut off / power down as soon as the antenna cables are connected from my 1x8 DA. A while back I found that some receivers were ok and not shutting down, but in the mad dash of the project I didn't have time to take notes and try to figure out what/why.

[@jairogonzalez9479]

Awesome set up and information. I need a little assistance with a project...I would like to ask for a little advise please.

[@dalethornton1113]

I need to try a setup like yours only I have old stuff to deal with, Shure L4s running from 171 Mhz to 192 Mhz. And no budget, I think with the correct antennas I can still make it work. Going to give it the college try. Thanks for the info and the guinea pig service!

[@DrewBrashler]

+Dale Thornton This setup would work for you! All of the TV Splitters I quoted had a freq range from 5MHz-1000MHz, the only thing that wouldn't work is the antenna that I quoted. You would probably want to try using the stock one that came with your equipment or trying to build an antenna tuned to 181MHz. There are a bunch of antenna designs online that would work. A simple dipole tuned to 181MHz would work well for your purpose!

[@faribajan]

Hello, thanks for the video... can you tell me what you attach to the green antenna? the antenna gets shipped with nothing on it correct? Also, on the PCT-VB-8UN where does the line that goes to the antenna connect, there are 10 different ports? And I do audio for conferences where the audience has mic opportunity for q/a, is this the type of antenna you recommend? thanks

[@abdisoewoto6118]

Hi Drew, hope you still checking message in this video. I wonder, is it going to work for wireless in ear monitoring system?

[@rnodern]

Great video. Thanks for creating!

[@OffGridandOutdoors]

The PCT vb-8u does not seem to be available any more. Is the PCT MA2-8P a suitable alternative? Or what would be? The VB is Unity return, the MA2 is passive.

[@sirforce]

Excellent info, DIY way to go!

[@jjsoundguy]

Drew, I would be interested in knowing if the spectrum readout of the IEM combiner showed any 3IM artifacts? I would view the scope while the transmitters are turned on one at a time. I wonder about the splitter/combiner port-to-port isolation and its affect on 3IM? Have you done this? Thank you for this video. I have read about this very subject and it is good to see a video presented intelligently. This info was right in line with my needs. Our church is using 6 cheap in ear transmitters with 1/4 wave sticks. Of course they have many noise bursts. For our IEM transmitters I was thinking of getting the same passive combiner you have and feeding a home made helical antenna to improve drop out performance. I own a rental wireless mic system that can place 34 wireless mics on one stage concurrently. I also lead the audio team in our modern church (surround sound) and am an engineer at a TV station. Add to that a radio amateur. 73 de N2MMS. John

[@DrewBrashler]

+John Stefanick What a great question! Also when I made those measurements, I thought to myself if someone was going to ask that, at the time I thought, "No probably not." Well, I was wrong! hah! So unfortunately I did not test for that specifically. When I did my measurements I found that the peaks on the RF explorer when I looked at the 1/4 wave stock vs the splitter and log periodic were pretty much equal in amplitude measured up on the stage. If you want to contact me through www.dbbaudio.com I would love to send you the screenshots of the measurements. Also, here is a link for the pdf of the combiner: www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/ZBSC-8-82+.pdf. Thanks so much!

[@JBF-GST-Tanda]

Any gerber files or cad graphs for the antenna?

[@tombaxter4717]

Awesome video, thanks a lot for making it! Would this work with multiple signals going to a single antenna? or do you need two with the distro boxes? Is this also the same for the pro grade stuff, can you use sennheiser or shure distros with a single antenna? Cheers!

[@interdrummer2]

Hey Drew, are you training young sound engineers? I want to learn all that stuff and be able to do the whole sound and recording on Live situations. Cheers :)

[@JoshM7]

A friends and I recently did this and it's not exactly working the way we expected. It works, but it's having alot of cutting out spikes if you hold the microphone by the antenna worse than if you use the little antennas it comes with. We're still trying some other things as this is still promising.

[@jabbajawz]

I am exploring doing this right now. What splitters did you use. The one he has listed is discontinued.

[@JStevensdk7]

Don't hold the mics next to the antenna the receivers are being overloaded. Higher end Shure receivers aka ULX-D have overload indicators.

[@JoshM7]

@@JStevensdk7 Tell that to the people that use the mics. I and the sound booth folks know that but the dum dums on stage keep getting lazy and holding it lower and lower covering the antennas. We got it to work perfectly even when they cover the mic antenna. Just took some different antennas for the receivers than in this video. Which ones I can't recall but it worked in the end and hasn't been an issue since.

[@johnlong3864]

If you want the antennas to be white instead of green, can you spray paint them, or wrap them with white electrical tape? would that cause them to not be able to pick up the signal nearly as well?

[@drew1978u]

Thank you so much for sharing the knowledge in such a detail presentation.

[@christopherheadcase6886]

I have a portable rack IEM for my band. And the 2 bnc antennas that came with our IEM transmitters just dont seem to cut it on stage. So I was wondering how I could use this to incorporate to my system? I run the 2 IEM antenna I'd like to combine to 1 log periodic antenna

[@richardpowell4667]

Satellite splitters go from 5-2400MHz if you're looking for wider bands?

[@DH4Hobbies]

Cant find the pct-vb-8u but there is similar versions, also labeled bi-directional. Like the PC-VC series. Will these splitters work also? Thanks!

[@adamsmith9586]

Just curious... If wireless microphones and distribution "amps" work on the same frequencies as TV stations, how are the antennas different than TV antennas? Could something like a couple Mohu leaf antennas actually work reliably for a system like this? I can't find any sort of specs on the mohu leaf.

[@coxjeffery]

Mini-Circuits ZBSC-8-82+

[@JeffOfGod]

I have problems with our church mics, drop signal all the time ... This will be a perfect solution, thanks for share your knowledge with us .... I can't find the splitter anywhere, any other options ? Thanks 👍😊

[@richardpowell4667]

Have you found the splitter yet? Which splitter are you talking about? (Time index?)

[@dmixmusicstudio6386]

Good day, I do have 3 units of wireless trident microphone and I m having trouble using these units at a time? Im getting trouble ,seems like the its a frequency traffic, i dont know but all units is working if I will use it one on one. I badly need help. What should i do?

[@kylecoonrod9291]

Drew, where do you get the terminators for the IEM?

[@30crc001]

To connect the antenna to the splitter... Do I use 50Ohm cable or 75Ohm cable? Thanks for your information! So useful

[@protoman247]

Is there a more suitable power combiner if you only wish you combine up to 4 iems? Currently using the shure psm 300 series.

[@envisionelec]

I didn't choose this for my church (went with the Shure UA distributors) because I didn't want to set them up with something that couldn't be easily replaced down the line. With a known piece of gear, someone just has to read the manual to figure it out.

[@martotarto9581]

Hi Drew, can i use 8 way CATV Antenna Signal Amplifier Booster Splitter and can i use 8way one spliter to connect 4 mics

[@microenterprises]

This whole video is a great service to churches. Nice work!

[@danielmoore6211]

Excellent video. Thank you

[@livingstones1196]

Hi Drew, was wondering if the PCT-VC-9PN will work since the recommended one is obsolete? Thanks

[@microenterprises]

I am really glad you show the measurements because they don't lie. The reason for the addition loss of the Commscope splitter is likely the impedance mismatch causing an additional VSWR loss. Coaxial TV systems are 75ohm where wireless microphones use 50ohm transmission systems. You can match this to gain back that loss (which goes up with frequency) by using a wilkinson splitter (google it). A very simple way to passively match these is shown here. www.changpuak.ch/electronics/coaxial_power_split.php

[@microenterprises]

OK - this is what I get for not watching the whole thing first. But my point about the wilkinsons still stand if you wanted to gain that back.

[@DrewBrashler]

Later in the video I mention the losses that are incurred with the 50 ohm to 75 ohm mismatch. This mismatch is a 1.5:1 SWR which the MAXIMUM loss that can be occurred with this mismatch is -0.18dB So the losses are not enough to make any differences. Thank you for your comment!

[@DrewBrashler]

microenterprises Very true and thank you for the share on the video! To me the losses of .2dB per mismatch isn't enough to make any real difference. The gain of getting the 1/4 wave verticals out of the rack with a gain antenna will very much outweigh the losses occurred with a 75 ohm TV splitter and coax. Thank you again for your comments!

[@microenterprises]

Drew Brashler On a side note since you are a HAM - make sure you do your SWR measurements directly into the antenna where possible. A high insertion loss through a cable will mask a bad VSWR.

[@DrewBrashler]

microenterprises Another great reason of using 75 ohm coax is that it has much better specs as far as loss/100ft than any of the 50 ohm coax at the same price. You normally will spend about 3x the cost to get 50 ohm with similar loss specs of any 75 ohm cable. The 0.2dB loss due to the mismatch stays the same no matter how long that piece of coax is, the rest of the loss is due to loss/ft which is cable specific. If you have a bad antenna, no matter how good the coax is, you will have a bad SWR, if you have a good antenna but bad coax, then you will have a very quiet good antenna. Luckally these measurements are made where the receivers are placed in the system, and I was measuring amplitude only. Any cable loss and impedance mismatch loss would affect the amplitude measurements, so if I had a lower amplitude measurement I knew something would be wrong. No SWR sweeps were made using the system because I don't have the gear to get a measurement in the VHF/UHF range. Thanks for all of the comments!

[@melvinsantos6091]

Hello Drew, I have a similar system in our church but the Shure units that we are using at the moment are the PGXD (they work in the 900MHZ range) with two first generation Seinhieser evolution mics. I just want to know if this would work for what we have. any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Great video! Thanks

[@DrewBrashler]

+Melvin Santos Hey Melvin! Yes, the system would work for your 900MHz units! The log periodic goes up to 1000MHz and the splitters that I tested also go up to 1000MHz. With the antenna I suggested, you can have multiple receivers ranging from 400MHz all the way up to 1000MHz and they would all receive signal from the antenna and splitter throughout that entire frequency spectrum.

[@michaeldeal7569]

I have a question. My wife was cheating and I could hear her whispering but could never find a mic or a Bluetooth in her ear. Can you help me understand what it might be

[@JoeSpinamusic]

Amazing...just getting started now!

[@DrewBrashler]

Let me know how it goes!

[@tylerkeeton17]

Hey Drew, love the videos you post. I work in a church as well and Im always wanting to learn more and more! 2 questions, the SMA to BNC adapter cable that you mention, should it be male or female? is it better to get a cable that has an SMA connector on one end and BNC on the other or would just an adapter be fine?

[@DarrenYung]

Hey! Thanks for doing all this legwork and sharing it! My church needs new mics now that the 600MHz spectrum is being sold off. Would this setup work with a 2.4GHz system if the antenna is changed? What about the splitter? That would need to work in the 2GHz range too. Do they have splitters that work in that range?

[@DrewBrashler]

+Darren Yung I would try to stay out of the 2.4GHz area as this is the WiFi range and is quite crowded. With that being said, the products listed in this would NOT work for 2.4GHz, but the fundamentals would work. If you changed the splitter to be something that worked in the 2.4GHz range, it would work well! In fact, you can use antennas branded for use with WiFi and even splitters too.

[@Chris155au]

what country?

[@gibsonmb1]

Just fyi, the frequencies you can use in the UK are far more complex, some need licences some do not. Wether it is a fixed installation or not also has a bearing on the frequencies you can use and whether they need to be licensed or not. All explained in the Sennheiser pdf link en-uk.sennheiser.com/downloads/download/file/4131/Sennheiser_Frequency_Charts_02.2013.pdf

[@DrewBrashler]

Mike Gibson That is good to know about UK needing licences. Even with that said of needing licences, the frequencies are all still within the bandwidth of this. If you are using a 470MHz, 558MHz, or an 862MHz wireless frequency, license aside it will still work with this distribution system. In the US, the 700MHz band was reconfigured to other uses, so it is no longer a legal frequency range to use for microphones in the US. It is always up to the user to keep complaint with FCC or governing body's rules and regulations. Thanks for the comment!

[@BryanLeeRagon]

I am very interested in setting this up. So much so that I probably jumped the gun and ordered some equipment before getting all questions answered, lol. Will this work with a receiver that is listed as having a OEM antenna that is active? Audio-Technica 3000B series lists it's receiver as: True Diversity Image Rejection: 60dB nominal, 55dB minimum RF Sensitivity: 20dBuV at 60dB S/N ratio, (50 Ohms Term) Antenna Input: BNC-type, 50Ohm, Bias voltage 12V DC, 60 mA, each From your video, I gather that the 75Ohm to 50Ohm won't be an issue, as overall dB will be improved, even if some is lost in the transition. However, the Bias voltage makes me believe that the receiver expects an active antenna. How will that affect this system? Still safe to use your setup on these receivers? Thank you!!!

[@jcross116]

would spray painting the paddles black cause any issues with signal?

[@MrDeeejaaay]

No, they work just fine. Use some cheap flat black paint as per the designer/manufacturer.

[@KB5RYE]

No, as long as you don't use metallic paint.

[@Michaelson100]

Thanks for the post Drew. Great video. Have you tried using a slim Jim vs the log periodic?

[@DrewBrashler]

Hey, Michael! A slim jim wouldn't have the same gain as a log periodic, you really benefit by having the added gain and directionality.

[@richardpowell4667]

Hi. I thought "insertion loss" was the loss at the joins e.g. connector on cable attached to the splitter, not the loss inside the splitter. ??? Also, I'm sure the higher the frequency, the higher the loss but you don't mention that when talking about splitters.

[@jorgeblackmont]

You Know how an BNC splitter works? newest shure wireless mic system works with BNC y could use an BNC Splitter instead a TV coax splitter?

[@johngreer9124]

is the antenna used in the center for the in ears, the same type of antenna used for the mics?

[@jabbajawz]

Yes it is.

[@livingstones1196]

Couldn't I just use a SMA-F connector adapter cable since I will still have to convert the BNC to F connector at the splitter?

[@jewagr007]

Hey Drew. Working on this setup now but for the life of me I cannot figure out where the SMA to BNC Adaptor Cables will be used? The way it looks is you have made SMA to BNC adapter cables out of the RG6Q coax and the connectors. These run from the Receivers into the splitters. Then you are running SMA x SMA up to your array antenna. Can you help me out please.

[@DrewBrashler]

+Jeff Graves Sure thing Jeff! The SMA to BNC is to go from the Log-Periodic to the Shure receiver. My original setup was to use the log-periodic with just one receiver at the time. Then I decided to start designing this distribution system. If you can find a SMA to F connector, that would be even better because you could go straight from the log-periodic to the coaxial splitter. Thanks for the question and for watching!

[@jewagr007]

+Drew Brashler Thanks Drew. What I wound up doing is getting a SMA Male x Type F Female crossover fitting and using it directly into the SMA soldiered to the Log Antenna. Then ran RG6 with Type F crimps on both ends from the Antenna to the splitter. Works like a charm! Thanks and God Bless!

[@DrewBrashler]

Awesome! Thanks for letting me know, I would love to see some photos of your setup!

[@jewagr007]

+Drew Brashler I will get pics of parts tonight. Still trying to find the right SMA 90 degree connectors for the Log Periodics. I ordered some but the soldier footprint of the connector tabs was to large. Will get pics of completed system as soon as I get it all put together. God Bless

[@cdncowboy3424]

Hi Drew, I mix sound for the youth ministry at New Life Church in Pismo. We have a new Behringer X32 that we brought online several months ago. Prior to that we were using a Allen & Heath GL4000 analog board so the Behringer represents my first use of a digital board to mix for the youth. Now for the skinny. I am using channels 13 thu 16 for vocal microphones. BUS 13 is identified as FX rack Instruments, BUS 14 is identifies as FX rack vocals, BUS 15 is identified as FX rack delay and BUS 16 is identified as FX rack Guitar Fx. So, when I want to hear more reverb/echo on the vocals in the house I simply advance the slider for BUS 14 and presto, more vocal echo in the house. My current challenge is that the worship leader wants to hear more reverb/echo applied to his vocals as they are returned to him in his ears (we have the Behringer tied into a Powerplay P16 in ear system). Can you tell me how to provide the worship leader with the desired effect or direct me to the proper KZbin video that will guide me. Apparently our current setup applies the reverb/echo effect to the vocals as they are transmitted to the house but not to the vocals as they are transmitted back to the P16 musicians console. I need to do both and preferably independently. Glenn

[@envisionelec]

Just like when I wired an entire inner-city church snake (32 channels) using CAT5 STP 10 years ago - the industry doesn't want you to know that you can do things much more inexpensively!

[@dadondada41]

Really?? that long ago? How on earth did you do it back then?

[@signalhillscooter]

Fabulous video! Thanks for sharing. I love learning something new, and I did from this video

[@DrewBrashler]

Patrick Leonard Thank you! I am so glad I was able to help!