The ONE GAME-CHANGING Slicer SETTING... (Huge 3D Print Quality BOOST)

[@PrintingPerspective]

*TO CLARIFY:* What makes this huge boost to the print quality is printing the OUTER WALL before the adjacent INNER WALL is printed. That is why I called the Inner/Outer/Inner wall ordering option "printing outer wall first" as it does exactly that. Hopefully, that clarifies things. I know it can be quite confusing. *So TLDR:* Inner/Outer = IW first Outer/Inner = OW first Inner/Outer/Inner = OW first

[@robmasonjr67]

Why does the Ankermake Studio slicer (based on PrusaSlicer) not have this setting? I can't find it anywhere.

[@GriffonWalker]

Is there a cura setting for that?

[@youtubehandlesux]

Isn't this default in Orca? Never printed with inner walls first again after testing it out.

[@petercallison5765]

@@youtubehandlesux My default settings are inner outer, selecting a different printer may change that.

[@ftnavy123]

how does this effect part accuracy?

[@imacmill]

This is the first video whose title contains the tired, old "GAME-CHANGER" claim that actually turned out to be a game-changer for me. Printing the outside walls first made a MASSIVE difference in the quality of my prints. I've been living with semi-OK prints for literally 3 years...can't believe I've gone this long without knowing about this setting. Why isn't it on by default in all slicers? Edit to add, after another print: I seriously can't believe the difference this made. My print looks almost injection-molded, for cryin' out loud! And I'm running it on my trusty old Ender-3 V2. Unbelievable!! Thanks for this tip!

[@hhaste]

I'm brand new to 3D printing, is this only applicable to people making their own files or is this also a setting that can be changed when printing pre-made, downloaded files? Going to be getting my first 3D printer soon, just wondering about some things I don't know, yet.

[@imacmill]

@@hhaste It can be used for any file, ones you make or ones other people make.

[@skywardsoul1178]

​@@hhasteJust don't use it for parts with steep overhangs basically.

[@MarinusMakesStuff]

​@@skywardsoul1178 Even small overhangs will be very much ruined. And don't even consider printing things with holes in the sides 😂 But beyond that, it's nice to have the option of outer walls first.

[@PioneerPrint3D]

@@MarinusMakesStuff THANK YOU for this answer. I won't be turning this setting on. I wish this was mentioned as a big con in the video.

[@KwaPaN3R]

You can not imagine how much I love you for making this video. I built a voron 2.4 over a year ago and I'm searching the reason for these horizontal lines on my prints since then, never found the answer. Now I know. I had the same lines on prints from my Prusa but much less visible, maybe due to lower print speeds. I also started to print parts for a new tool head with Galileo v2 extruder just yesterday without even knowing about the benefits in print quality. Thank you so much!

[@PrintingPerspective]

Glad it was helpful, thank you so much! :)

[@brendanm720]

Interestingly enough, I built a Trident last year, but with the original Afterburner/Clockwork toolhead combo... It worked fine. Great, even. No weird lines. Then I upgraded to a Stealthburner and Clockwork 2 toolhead combo, and even reusing the same extruder gears I started having these periodically repeating lines. I'm going to give this a shot and see what my prints look like.

[@Karavusk]

I discovered this a few years ago. I realized that the quality is massively improved and there is pretty much no downside. I am really surprised this isn't standard.

[@PrintingPerspective]

Nice, I wonder that myself too because so far I don't see any real downsides. There can be some caveats with it, maybe that is why is not a default, so that beginners would less often run into problems.

[@AckzaTV]

lolu still didnt reveal what it is in this comment hah. im waiting to be sold an ebook

[@daliasprints9798]

Cura made it default for a while but then reverted it, because they have lots of bad defaults that cause missing extrusion after unretract, especially on bowden printers, and they want to hide that on inner perimeter rather than showing it on outer. Despite it harming part integrity either way. 🤦

[@donguyengiac5046]

@@PrintingPerspective downside is the seam is on the outside right after a long retraction for a layer change, so the nozzle pressure sometimes might be too low and the seam may look worse

[@Dustmuffins]

@@donguyengiac5046 Maybe this can be avoided by printing infill first?

[@KolMan2000]

One likely reason is that curling and warping are caused by outer layers not having sufficient time to cool combined with the contraction of inner layers as they cool pull in on the outer filament. So by printing an outer wall first, you’re giving the outer layer the most time to cool so that it can be already solidified by the time the printer gets around to it. I legitimately never thought of it like that.

[@Smokinjoewhite]

This is exactly what I was just thinking! I think you may be onto something. Especially with the ABS/ASA results where typically you have little to no cooling and contraction is far more than PLA or PETG.

[@marty4286]

I started using IW/OW/IW because of the scarf joint feature and it was surprising to me how much better everything became, but I couldn't put two and two together on how that could be so until your video, thanks!

[@802Garage]

I had great results with these settings as well, though admittedly with limited testing. Most of the improvements make sense. I realized one reason the overhangs being as good or even improving may make sense while watching for video. First of all, the filament has more room to expand and sit on top of the previous layer, since it won't hit the inner wall and then have to squish outward over the side, which could cause a drooping overhang. Sure, you may think because clinging to the inner wall would keep the filament from falling outward that it would help, but the volume of filament extruded all has to go somewhere, so outward is the remaining direction if the inner wall is present. The other reason I think it may help is that not having an inner wall means the outer wall extrusion can be cooled from both sides, it even has a little channel of air flowing past it, and it isn't being kept warm by the previously printed inner wall. I would suspect the added cooling is a much larger factor than residual heat from an inner wall, but the amount the latter varies would depend on the print. I wonder how much outer wall appearance would vary with line width as well, especially with overhangs. Also counterintuitive, but wider layer widths can actually give better overhangs because it insets the outer wall more on the previous layer, meaning the center of the nozzle is less in free air when extruding. Anyways, very interesting tests and results! I do think I saw a slight improvement in your tests with the precise wall setting on, as especially the lower ridge on your far right test print was smoother. Hard to say not holding it though. A combo of outer wall first, precise wall, good cooling, and perhaps even wider than nozzle width layers could be the ultimate combo. Beyond that, precise extrusion is so important, as you repeatedly mentioned. This seems to be the Achilles heel of the K1 series, for example. Once you get extrusion dialed in, testing all of the other settings reveals a lot.

[@PrintingPerspective]

Yeah, there can be so many things why we can see this happening that I just gave up on trying to fully understand why. The more I dive into 3D printing and how things affect stuff the more I am starting to see that assumptions why are quite often not correct. The K1 series extruder is armchair engineering at its finest lol, as the drive gears are only supported from one side, with the filament inside, those gears bend out of square and flop and wobble even more, a truly bad design. :/

[@802Garage]

@@PrintingPerspective The support on one side only hurts my soul. It would probably perform better as a single gear extruder with even an idler that wasn't supported on one side, hahaha. It's very true that trying to analyze and understand every aspect of printing is a huge ask for one person. That's why practical testing and experience are very important, as well as being willing to question what you thought you knew. A ton of incorrect assumptions and conclusions out there, like you said.

[@LexxDesign3D]

Which extruder would be the perfect upgrade for the K1? Mine is 1200 hours in with no problems but always looking to improve performance and reliability as I hope to keep it for as long as possible.

[@802Garage]

@@LexxDesign3D It's not like the extruder doesn't work, it's when you start to get really picky about ringing and layer lines it will show up most. Not sure what the best upgrade is, but the channel NeedItMakeIt is going to be doing a lot of testing with the Ender 3 V3 series which uses a similar extruder and has similar issues.

[@sz12359]

It's wall printing order.

[@nyllie6239]

thanks for the timesaver! plus travel distance threshold to 2 instead of 1 perhaps

[@visualbasicimp]

Thank you! Jfc that was a convoluted video

[@Reza1984_]

​@@nyllie6239 what does the travel distance threshold 1 -> 2 do?

[@JayKus373]

@@Reza1984_ I'm not an authority, but it has to do with "retraction", ie. filament being pulled back in before pushing out and printing again, probably so there's nothing outside of the nozzle to bump into things when moving? (Might be wrong, I'm only 3 weeks into owning a 3D printer, but I'm in the ballpark I think...) So, whether if you're using "Inner/Outer" or "Outer/Inner", the nozzle will always move to the next wall that closest to where you are, which is probably less than 1mm as the line width is like 0.4mm or something, and nothing happens. However, if you're doing "Inner/Outer/Inner", with a minimum of 3 walls, is means it'll do the inner wall first, then SKIP THE EMPTY SECOND INNER/OUTER WALL, and go to the outer wall next, before doing the middle wall. This movement might exceed that 1mm, and causes the filament to be retracted, which seems useless as you know there's not going to be anything to bump into, and might cause issues with flow or temperature at the very start of the outer wall, leading to "bad" first contact and causing visual inconsistencies on the outer wall? So with putting that to 2mm, you'll make sure retraction does not happen and consistency remains.

[@BrunenG_YT]

Finally, I've been printing OW first for 5 years now, saves a lot of time on postprocessing too

[@PrintingPerspective]

It is crazy for me that such an amazing setting is so little known, hopefully, more people will be aware of it now. :)

[@daliasprints9798]

I've been trying to tell folks outer perimeters first is better for years but everybody looks at me like I'm crazy...

[@PrintingPerspective]

Haha! When you said it I wrote down the idea to test as it sounded interesting, but I was skeptical about it. Unfortunately it took 1 year till I got to test it and it completely changed my mind. I guess later than never is better, thanks for the great suggestion. :) Hopefully now way more people will be aware of it!

[@kimmotoivanen]

We've been taught for years that outer first makes 💩 overhangs 🙂 Maybe slowing down on overhangs cures that 🤔

[@daliasprints9798]

@@kimmotoivanen Not having 2015-era weakass cooling fixes that. 😁

[@kimmotoivanen]

@@daliasprints9798 maybe that too, though 2024 also has not so cool part coolings ;)

[@ThereIsNoRoot]

I'm testing this now and hoping for great improvements to dimensional accuracy for my Clickfinity Refined plates. One note: the description of the travel distance threshold is not clear at all, and since it's the most replayed part of the video I'm not the only one. I read around and from what I can tell from your video is that you have a travel distance threshold of 1mm and a Z hop type of Spiral. This causes Z-height movements when moving to another wall > 1mm away, slowing your print times (and probably heating up the filament more during that S hop time, causing dimensional issues). You recommend increasing the default to something like 2mm which reduced your print times. But this is only true because you have a Spiral Z hop type vs Slope, which combines Z movements with XY movements to reduce stringing. For me-Bambu Labs P1S w/0.6mm E3D ObXidian nozzle-the default value (under Printer Settings » Extruder » Retraction » Travel distance threshold) was 3mm with a Z Hop Type of Auto (aka Slope), so this is not applicable to me. Z Hop defines how the print head combines Z movements alongside XY movements. Keep in mind that some users are seeing scraping when the travel distance threshold is > 0mm. If this is the case then Z Hop Type to Normal might help at the cost of longer print times. The bottom of this Github issue is a great read for folks who want to learn the pros and cons of these settings: github.com/bambulab/BambuStudio/issues/3423

[@paulgrindley8192]

I just recently got into 3D printing and switched to this method after watching your video. Made all the difference in the world. My prints look so much better. Thanks!!!

[@mikecrane2782]

Well done for showing this in your prints, I kept switching between Orca and Bambu and got better results, but never realised what settings I changed as I discarded them. You've jogged the memory cells thank you :)

[@hapsti]

this may be the final piece to my layer consistency journey, I avoided this bc of the stigma against it for "bad overhangs", thank you!

[@daliasprints9798]

Overhangs are actually better IME with outer first, at least as long aa you have proper cooling. When there's very little material below to bond to, the surface tension effects instead pull the outer to the inner perimeter if it's already there and make it go in the wrong place then curl because the extruded length is wrong for where it goes.

[@ruffryder1337]

i don't understand why you don't experience any issues with overhangs. try circular objects with steep overhangs inside like inner threads. there "should" be adhesion problems due to no inner wall where the outer wall can be attached to to help compensate that there is almost no wall below where it can be printed on. that's the resulting famous spider net where there are straight lines in mid air instead of circles.

[@Packman332]

I haven't watched this full video yet, but I thought I would check the comments for people having issues with overhangs using this setting. I usually always print with 3 walls and heard that doing outer inner or inner, outer, inner, is the best for dimensional accuracy and how it looks on the outside and for the most part that's true. But depending on the model, I've definitely noticed an issue with curved surfaces where there is even a slight overhang or angled surface. I eventually gave up on it and only use it when I know it's a straight surface and I truly want the accuracy.

[@waym9409]

I am facing the same issue. Sadly there is no option “but on overhangs”

[@Packman332]

@@waym9409 That would be a great option. Wonder if they're working on that. Good feature request. If it defects an overhang over a certain percentage, switch to inner, outer instead.

[@1Wolverine2]

Well, it looks like we do learn something new everyday. 6 years in 3D Printing and always turned down on printing outer wall first. I'll have to test it now. Thanks for your time.

[@DannyThompson54]

I became an instant devotee of Outer Wall First a few months ago when I saw an article that discusses this. Then your video surfaced a while later. The results of OW First are amazing, delivering much cleaner print surfaces, but also with improved dimensional accuracy, which is important for so many practical prints.

[@float32]

Tie us all covered in cura documentation. It’s funny watching so many people discover what can be found by holding the nose over the setting and reading the popup text. lol.

[@DannyThompson54]

⁠@@float32oh bless ya guvnor. *doffs cap* But why do I have to hold my nose over anything? Is that a Cura quirkiness?

[@DrewLSsix]

I've had mild arguments with people that refuse to believe that dual gear extruders have any downside.

[@Pappagar]

in engineering almost everything has Pros and Cons :)

[@pizzablender]

Using a Titan clone... which is surprisingly good in a DD configuration. I wondered why, but I understand now.

[@George.___]

Would anti-backlash gears be practical for a dual gear extruder? OR Is a single gear extruder just better in all cases?

[@testboga5991]

Dual gear became only a thing because back then the be all end all feature an extruder needed was flawless ninjaflex printing...

[@TheCreat]

Just a note on the "prrecise wall", and why it didn't change much: it's intended purpose is to improve dimensional accuracy, which is the aspect I usually care most about. It's nice if it looks pretty, but I most of all want it to work and fit correctly. For that precise wall does exactly what it's supposed to, at least for me. Much less deviation.

[@MiG82au]

Precise wall got me from hard interference at 0.10 mm clearance in the Orca tolerance test to totally free fit at 0.1 mm and light interference at 0.05 mm clearance.

[@kimmotoivanen]

If outer wall is printed in "free space", precise wall should not matter much. It would make outer shell weaker...

[@TheCreat]

@@kimmotoivanen Oh yes, without a pre-existing neighboring inner wall, it should have no or negligible effect. I haven't exactly A/B tested that in great detail though.

[@osiris9679]

Ok. TESTED. Using the Built in Orca Tolerance test, I am able to get the hex key into the .05 Hole. Previously, I was only able to get down to the .2. The only change made to the printer was changing to Inner/Outer/Inner.

[@terracoon9882]

2:26 Thank you so much for this small piece of information, I already knew printing outer walls first improves quality, but this problem you are discussing here is also super important, while almost nobody seems to know about it.

[@uujims]

Note that layer with to height ratio and extrousion multiplier also have a huge effect on overhangs and surface consistency

[@TinSVM]

Nice, so what's the rule for that? Could you elaborate a bit more?

[@PrintingPerspective]

Most likely, I have used the most common ones of 0.42mm outer wall width and 0.2mm layer height.

[@uujims]

@@TinSVM lower extrousion multiplier can led to better finish but weaker parts and vice versa (inner to outer wall order only)

[@rainmannoodles]

That’s true, ratio is important. Think about a 0.4 nozzle printing 0.2 layers: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX Now cut the layer height in half: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX There’s much less overhang on each individual layer.

[@Dark0Storm]

​@@TinSVM For layer width and layer height I believe it's all about increasing the amount of overlap between one layer and the next. Larger line widths will overlap the previous layer a little more, improving adhesion and therefore overhang quality Similarly as you reduce the layer height the amount by which the next layer on an overhang is moved out by decreases (because there are more layers and so a finer "grain" to the stepping out), which increases the overlap between layers, improving adhesion and the overhang quality.

[@DaRk_DoG]

It's amazing how such a small setting can affect the quality so much. I noticed a small dimensional inaccuracy, i.e. a cube of 30x30x30mm had ~0.06mm on x&y (except z).

[@Litl_Skitl]

A while ago, I've also started printing infill before walls (infill-outer-inner), so that any points from bad pressure advance get kinda ironed flat by the head moving by for the walls. Might be cool to try as well. Awesome stuff as always!

[@tjCooper88]

You're using Inner-outer-inner option? Or Outer-inner? In the settings?

[@aaronmiller08]

Discovered this when I was tuning my ender 3 I bought off a friend.. I tried the inner - outer - inner setting in orca and was floored by the sudden drastic improvement.

[@wildcroissant]

This small change gave me the biggest improvement of quality from all the changes. Including extruder/hotend/rails/kinetic bed. I don't need to upgrade anything anymore, and prints are superb, even under strong top-down lightning

[@therealjamesmartin]

Oh dear lord I've been printing 10 years. Just seen this video. Swapped my setting and fresh benchmarks currently printing... Why oh why did i not try this one setting years ago

[@PaulStevensonPinball]

I've long had the theory that printing outside perimeters first would result in a better finish, as you could print & set the outside perfectly without any unwanted influence from inside layers. Yet, in my 8+ years of printing I've never actually tried it. I just assumed the pro's knew better, perhaps printing from inside to outside provided structural benefits that I couldn't understand, and of course I figured overhangs would be better inside-out. Just this week I've been fighting outer wall finish issues where inside structures show up as ghosted outlines on the outside, and while I again thought about trying this setting, I was too hesitant. Now I feel stupid for not at least trying this years ago. Thanks so much for putting this video together!!!

[@SteinerSE]

So were we supposed to use 1 or 2 mm travel distance treshhold?

[@olafmarzocchi6194]

I started using Cura two years ago for the ultimaker 2+ connect I borrow from time to time and it had outer perimeters first by default. I was amazed by the quality and dimensional accuracy

[@incognito_282]

One of the best "3d printing tips" videos, thank you

[@PrintingPerspective]

Glad it was helpful! :)

[@KilianGosewisch]

same! for me when printing really fast, its even better for cooling and overhangs. Another thing I miss and am very confused by, slow down inner walls first/only. that way you will get a consistent surface finish even when slowing down for minimum layer time.

[@RexAnothership]

For tight tolerance or for quality surface I always use outer wall first but depending on the finish I need 0.4mm outer wall with 0.07 layer height and 0.7mm infill with 0.2mm layer height to make up for slower perimeter speed. This works great for overhangs and surface finish as it prints 3 layers of outer wall before 1 pass of the infill. This is done with a 0.6mm nozzle.

[@robertschrauder7537]

FYI precise wall only works with inner-outer configuration source: orca slicer program notes(when hovering the cursor)

[@georgehyker]

Wow, WOW! Great work!! Thank you for doing this work for the rest of us.

[@andersevenrud]

Just re-printed a Raspi case I found yesterday, but with OW. All the long straight surfaces came out much smoother, but the narrowest sections around the I/O, and the poles for the self-tapping screws came out a little bit bumpy. So a little bit hit and miss without any additional tuning, which I'll look into. So far I'm quite impressed. I've ignored this setting because I haven't really had any issues with tolerances and that Prusa Slicer has that tooltip that says it would reduce overall quality...

[@Airbag888]

Where do you change that in Prusa slicer please?

[@andersevenrud]

@@Airbag888 Under "Advanced" in "Print Settings -> Layers and Perimiters" you'll find a checkbox with "External perminiters first". It's only visible if you have expert mode on (the red button).

[@Airbag888]

@@andersevenrud thank you! Found it,

[@Becvar80]

I am currently printing some printer feet in TPU. The first two were printed with my old settings, second two are printing with In/Out/In, and I can already see a clear difference in quality.

[@BrianVoelker]

Wow im going to try this now. It makes a lot of sense after watching your video. Thanks!

[@PrintingPerspective]

Hopefully it will lead to improvements like I saw on my prints, now I set it to every profile I have ;D

[@BrianVoelker]

@@PrintingPerspective I wonder why it's not drfault

[@m00se-b7t]

Neat slicer trick. This made my layer lines on CF-PETG look massively better.

[@PrintingPerspective]

Glad to hear that :)

[@Doyle69]

Mine is on the way I copied a few of your settings to the Slicer before it arrives. I spotted retraction amount before wiping is set to 50% from stock 0% Should I also change this to 50%? Also, you mention and show to change 2mm to 1mm, but the video shows just before video changes it is set back to 2mm, is 1mm or 2mm we need to change? Thanks :)

[@Plumpkatt1]

I'm glad to hear you bring this up I've been telling people this since I began using orca over a year ago. I also like using the same painter to move move seems so that they're closer to one another which minimizes travel and stringing

[@AustinVojta]

You earned a new subscriber with this one. Super fascinating idea, to-the-point video, and a good comparison of results. Well done, keep it up! Excited to check out the other videos on your channel and see what else you have in store in the future. Going to give I/O/I walls a shot on my printer right now!

[@dirtydan2806]

I've known about this for a few years. Its main downsides are long travel moves will leave a gap due to nozzle pressure and it's impossible to print ID threads with OW first. Also ironing can also cause a gap due to low nozzle pressure.

[@Festivejelly]

Inner out inner is the best but remember overhangs will perform worse, so you need to lower the layer height to help compensate. Also Orca and Bambu slicer do a crap job of converting arcs when using arachne, so run it through arc welder afterwards.

[@Festivejelly]

Also if you have an X1C you can just add an extra aux fan on the right and your overhangs will be much better.

[@hotfix7387]

I have been enjoying your videos for a while now and you appear to be a fellow engineer. So it was time to pony up and join as a member to support you. I hope these types of videos keep coming and that others follow my lead.

[@PrintingPerspective]

Thank you so much! It is very nice to hear when people say they like videos, especially when it comes from an engineer. It confirms that the content is moving in the direction I want it to move. :)

[@makers_lab]

I experimented with this a few months ago on our Bambus, and for the models we were printing it made no difference or was worse, but it's definitely one of the settings to be aware of when dialing in the quality. I'm really surprised at your "before" results though as I've never had prints look so poor from Bambu other than when I had some damp pla. It's just consistently good.

[@_..-.._..-.._]

You’re correct, OW first is better for everything if your cooling setup is more than enough. The outer first with enough air cools instantly because it’s a tiny amount of plastic, IW first has the outer wall getting heat from the still-cooling inner wall. Cooling makes the difference!

[@awjaaa]

Confirming - best print quality I've ever had. And, my stuff is super-callibrated, even for each filament (and THOSE being re-callibrated after each change of filament). I personally am tending to believe that doing the outer wall first is also giving you a very slight and temporary draft shield on each and every layer.

[@pirobot668beta]

I was dealing with 'print-through': infill was showing up on the surface of the model. Outer wall first made things nice! It has a good influence on precision parts as well...the outer wall is right where it needs to be instead of being 'pushed' by inner walls/infill.

[@commandercontraband]

makes perfect sense to me the hotter outer layer will look better, be stronger...it's a more natural progression

[@robinstefanov5152]

This solved all my outer line line problems, I thought it was weak cooling . I`ve never suspect that is the wall order so much important for print quality !! Thank you so much for sharing your experiments !!!

[@kebiamkazaok5056]

Thank you for this video! I came across this setting, probably three or four years ago and noticed the improved quality. In that time. I probably watched over 1000 videos on 3-D printing and yours is the first and only one I’ve ever seen that suggested this setting. 7:27

[@DeusExAstra]

I will have to try this. Thank you.

[@_..-.._..-.._]

I’ve been on the fence about getting an A1 or A1 mini with AMS but I’ve seen some build cheapness that scares me, I can’t see that A1 extruder lasting long enough for my use. My most-used printer is a modified AnkerMake M5c on linear rails and it has roughly 3000 print hours on the stock hotend, stock belts, stock carriage, only changes were rails and Noctua hot end fan, it’s a beast, wish it were open source.

[@Smokinjoewhite]

I wonder if the reason overhangs exceeded expectation is due to the outer wall cooling better because it's not laying against still hot material. The outer wall can cool faster as a result.

[@austinvickymoore3656]

Good informative video! Thanks ill have to play around with the setting for sure! My first printer arrives tomorrow!!!

[@RoseKindred]

I used a similiar option with Cura and it was a game changer in my quality. I was chasing ghosts and z-seams and over extrustion... One change and it became so smooth afterwards.

[@danabu-reish8743]

I've been looking on Cura and can't find the setting for that. You mind telling me what you did to get that?

[@willofthemaker]

Been usong outer wall first for a while. Definitely well worth it. Minimal infill disturbances shown on the outside. I have one model that I sell as a physical process where itnis causing me issues due to overhang. I wonder if i can do a local section of inner wall first just in the overhang area. Could be interesting to explore it

[@EngineeringNibbles]

Would be great if slicers were smarter and could do outer walls first except when it results in floating sections

[@ferdinandhenkel4567]

Jeah. I think there is still an insane amount of optimization to do when it comes to slicers.

[@PrintingPerspective]

Compared to when I was getting into 3D printing and using Cura to today's Orca Slicer, it's like day and night, we have so many great features now that it is crazy. But yeah I have no doubt that SoftFever will optimize it down the line.

[@kuya_josiah]

Actually a game changer - thanks!

[@DeeN707]

Thank you brother, you helped a lot! Hello from Russia.

[@Beanpapac15]

I first noticed this while tuning print settings for a large format printer at work but completely forgot about it after I started using Bambu/Vorons because the print quality was always good enough

[@jonnygreenjeans]

Ngl I thought this was just going to be some clickbait but damn, the proof is in the pudding!! You’re right it does seem counterintuitive. I’m going to try this out for myself but it’s hard to deny all of your testing and obviously clear results. Great job on enriching our community. Damn near perfect prints ahead!! 😎

[@deucedeuce1572]

Outer walls first was important for me, because it improved accuracy and stopped hopes from printing undersized... and it also ended up increasing print quality by a good amount. I use only a mostly factory Ender 3 and get extremely good quality prints from it. I temporarily upgraded the hot end with a Micro Swiss, but for some reason I just can't get it to work right. I have constant partial-clogging and poor quality prints that break easily, because some layers were printed with partial clogs (and the layers are thin walls). I have to go back to the original hot end until I can find a better replacement, but I have no idea what to buy. I don't have a lot of money, but I just want to be able to print CF Nylon. I probably should have just gone with an all metal heat brake, but I was told that the Micro Swiss was the way to go. Also have a Sprite Extruder (not installed) that would be nice to be able to use... but the important thing is being able to print good quality with PLA+ and CF Nylon. Don't care too much about anything else, although higher speed would be nice.

[@thds4815]

A huge improvement to print quality for me was to check the wheels on X and Y axis, they where over-tightened from the manufacturer and the ride wasn't smooth. Check the bumpiness of your axis by moving bed or toolhead manually. They should be barely in contact not squished !

[@rodrigosoca3375]

So if you want to print using 2 walls instead of 3, the Wall Ordering as Outer/Inner gets the best quality?

[@ChrisHarmon1]

Some of my best prints came off a Kossel Mini I built way back in 2014 that had a bearing for idler vs driven hobbed idler gear. That said, I'm not a big fan of concave hobbed drive gear or idler, because the filament can walk up the sides of the idler and/or hobbed gear which essentially changes the gear ratio, think CVT transmission and the filament is the belt.

[@kjhaglfjhgfasd]

I want to try and make this clear… we should use the inner/outter/inner setting? Lmao. This video became a little obscure in the details. Overhangs are bad with this setting, but overall it’s better…?

[@tinkertv]

Awesome to see the results really looking better and better! Congrats! 👌

[@Orselonn]

Thank you very much for this video. I had no idea that with this simple option, I could improve the print quality so much. With ESUN's ABS+, the quality improved quite a bit for me.

[@PrintingPerspective]

Nice :)

[@edkim962]

Thank you for doing this test!

[@kolt9307]

Thankyou for this, I really mean it. I have been having issues with My K1 Max for months, tried everything. I used your suggested wall settings and the 2 mm thing and pow! My print layer lines have finally gone

[@Spartacusse]

I'll try that. In Cura it's called "Wall Ordering". Also, if you find a solution for those Bulged lines which some people refer to as "Benchy hull line" we'd all be grateful, since not even Prusa found a solution in their article about it.

[@thebigdr]

Thanks. Wondered where Cura had that

[@PoorManGarage]

So next question to test. If you go ow first can you then increase layer width without losing quality. Cuz if so you could do less walls at larger width and decrease print times too

[@Artof3drendering]

tested on the bambu a1 and work perfect! thanks mate for this tips

[@noahkatz9616]

This is great, subscribed! Question: At 3:33 at the bottom of the page shown, it says " When this feature is enabled in OrcaSlicer, the overlap between the outer wall and its adjacent inner wall is set to zero. This ensures that the overall strength of the printed part is unaffected." It seems to me that there would then be little or no adhesion between the two adjacent lasers and thus the part would be weaker.

[@Mr.Titanium1911]

This was ULTRA informative. Thank you for educating me :)

[@deucedeuce1572]

Most of this has been my experience also. I can't speak to the overhangs though. My overhangs are better than before, but I cannot say for sure that it's because of this setting. I didn't notice it right away, but that's probably because I didn't immediately print things with overhangs before and after making the change.

[@TripasGarage]

Great video! I have also been using this setting for a little while now and it’s great. Thanks for the video.

[@AndrewLeeiniceguy]

Wow! The quality of my prints are so clean!! Thank you

[@LordHolley]

I'm surprised this isn't just the standard way to print. I'm new to 3D printing but just in my tinkering I discovered it. I was pleasantly surprised how much nicer Prince turned out.

[@GabrielPalileo]

A lot of my recent prints have had some decent overhangs, which has always prevented me from using sandwich mode out of caution - guess I'll have to give it a go once again!

[@bruceyoung1343]

VERY INTERESTING. ALWAYS LOOKING ON HOW TO IMPROVE PRINTS. I’ll have to try ORCA SLICER

[@boehserenkel]

As of my testing I get nearly the same result with precise wall as with IOI Walls and also better overhangs. Also for IOI you obviously need 3 walls. I usually print with 2 + PW

[@FakcioR]

So suggested one is inner/outer/inner. What about outer/inner setting?

[@PrintingPerspective]

I mean, give it a try, it is very easy to do that. In my opinion, the iw/ow/iw order makes more sense for better results.

[@yannickhenschel8010]

So I am really looking forward testing these settings. Im a little confused about one thing. Maybe someone can tell me. In order to profit from the inner/outer/inner setting you will need at least 3 wall loops right? Because the Bambu Profiles have a default of 2.

[@SachenkoD09]

Late response, but yeah, you need 3 wall loops to make this work

[@bikerguy3109]

What is this setting in Prusa slicer? There’s a box for “external perimeter first: print contour perimeters from the outermost one to the innermost one instead of the default inverse order.” Is this the same setting?

[@MathieuTechMoto]

seems like it is

[@melmskilemz6307]

Think you overlooked that the bambu a1 has adaptive flow compensation so it knows the pressure in the nozzle

[@Sentinel372]

Thank you for your work. For me Inner outer inner walls is slightly better but the seams are less beautiful. Have you changed the seam settings?

[@olafmarzocchi6194]

Since you talk about surface finish, have you ever read the article called "Filament Width Compensation Experiments"? (Links not always allowed in YB, no idea why). It uses a Hall effect sensor to measure filament diameter and Klipper compensates for it. And you know what I found out today? The Q1 pro has a filament runout sensor on the extruder which is not a simple switch but actually a Hall filament width sensor! Just it's not used as diameter sensor, only as runout. Maybe you could try to calibrate it and enable it to see how it performs, if it helps or not. The author of the article writes that with that sensor he basically doesn't need to fine tune the extrusion multiplier for each filament, they end up all at about the same value.

[@cubedude76]

I never would have guessed wow thanks for sharing!

[@Nandox7]

Hey what's that x carriage extruder mount you're using on the KP3s that shows in the video? Thanks

[@stevenhu202]

So the video shows Inner/Outer/Inner but the dialogs says Outer first. Which is it?

[@coltenmeredith8899]

It's inner first, but it's not the inner that touches the outer (if that makes sense). I don't know how it works with less then 3 perimeters though

[@PrintingPerspective]

The inner/outer/inner option prints the outer wall first before the touching inner wall is printed (this is what makes huge quality boost). We just want to print the OW of our prints before the adjacent inner wall is printed. That's pretty much it.

[@larsord9139]

@@PrintingPerspective But why do you call it inner/outer/inner then?

[@ucirello]

At the time of Ender 3 Pro and Prusa MK3S+, I heard once Tim from TH3D to claim that his E3 printed better than Prusas. I thought he was BSing me, but that indeed true. That was the earliest signal that single gear extruder produced nicer prints. The second event that made me a single gear extruder partisan was several bad experiences with the BMG extruders - not only the quality wasn't great, they were uncomfortable to use. And the third event that consolidated my interest for single gear extruder was the amazing experience I had with the EZR extruder. So when I started building DYI printers, I was kind of upset to see they opted for dual gear extruders. That's up to G2 came out, I am converting them to G2 and except from some initial calibration (and getting the gears to accommodate in the gear box) the quality is very nice IMO. At least slightly better than my best tuned CW2.

[@AndroidA258]

on my voron, when i want to have really good print quality, i use my hyper speed profile (700mm/s 50k accel) and limit the flowrate to around 20, so the whole model has the same flowrate in the flowrate viewer

[@PrintingPerspective]

If your hotend's max flow is ~100mm^3/s then it fully makes sense. :)

[@AndroidA258]

@@PrintingPerspective its a dragon UHF, its around 45 to 50 on ABS, capping to 20 makes sure every layer has the same flowrate, the speeds are lower because of the cap but the accelerations are still there so its still quite fast

[@dr.fischie1801]

"In-Out-In" should improve the print quality only if you have more than 2 wall loops. Otherwise it wouldn't change anything because it already starts from the inside wall on default. So "In-Out-In" doesn't change much in that case. Bambu Studio for example uses 2 walls as default.

[@lifegettingintheway2710]

In case I think "Innermost-Outermost-All other inner" describes walls of 3 or more wall loops.

[@Prevettspecialdesign]

Nice find, going to try it tonight. Just found your channel, and it’s fantastic! 😊

[@PrintingPerspective]

Thanks :) Hope it helps for your prints!

[@ThePhilbox]

One bit of information missing is the difference in settings you were using for inner vs out walls? Would you get these results if both were being printed at the same speed/flow? What is the speed difference you were using here?

[@PrintingPerspective]

It was 150/175mm/s speed, not too fast but not too slow either. You won't as the reason why we see such a huge improvement by printing the outer wall before the adjacent inner one is printed is because then the outer wall extrusion is not affected by the inner wall.

[@ashbroom196]

I'd be interested to know if this would affect or improve strength, not just make it look much better