DJI AVATA? I prefer footage from the AOS Cine35

[@TotallyNotNuclear]

Love your frames so much! Nobody makes a better frame. I live the scientific approach! I also love that you have made a pattern for the action cam mounting. Your designs are so clever! Keep it up! 🙂

[@SensorDelay]

Don't get me wrong. I still want the Avata. Problem now is now I want a Avata and AOS Cina35.

[@GenericEquivalent]

Idk I think alot of KZbinrs miss the elephant in the room with the DJI Avata, not everyone wants to do Betaflight, setup switches on their remote, do PID's and rates some as in most of their target audience wants to just take it out and just fly not every car owner is a mechanic/builder, I'm going to build your drone for my own personal wants but KZbinrs gotta chill with the here is 13 other cinewhoop that are better lol DJI makes products for the general crowd not the niche crowd think BestBuy not raceday quads

[@brianconnolly5649]

That's what kills hobbies like this

[@CoasterCoat]

Youre joking....the avata is the simple alternative to building your own fpv drone and youre implying its still too complicated....lmao

[@ChilkoNZ]

@@CoasterCoat lol what they're implying the exact opposite

[@GenericEquivalent]

@@CoasterCoat no I'm saying not everyone can build a drone from scratch and the DJI option is better suited for the mass major of it's target audience

[@markifi]

@@brianconnolly5649 why would it kill the hobby? (to stay with the same analogy) that's like saying widespread adoption of the car by everyone killed the hobby of those car enthusiasts who hang around in the parking lots of tesco. it didn't?! it only would if the simple option would be just as good or better.

[@edrone_]

Wow very impressive Chris I like this design alot and will be on my wishlist for a nice winter build! Thanks for all your contributions to our amazing hobby! 👍🤟🔥

[@ChrisRosser]

Thanks! I hope you get some lovely shots with it.

[@DronoTron]

would love to see a recommended parts list for this frame

[@epicjfpv]

Do you have a frame build tutorial? Just ordered mine and unable to find a build video

[@christhorney]

i was talking to someone who got this frame and they said the hoops are only 1.5mm (and his came from cncdrones at only 1.25mm although they are sending him replacements) and honestly i think 1.5mm is far too thin for the part thats supposed to take impacts, i realise its not supposed to be bashed up alot, but if the top hoop atleast was 3mm instead of 1.5 it would be so so so much better and stronger because typically your going to crash into the top hoop not the bottom one, and it really would not make it very much heavier at all, i think the tradeoff for durability would be a very well worthy tradeoff

[@SkeezyFPV]

This frame, at least the one CNC Madness sells, is complete trash. The carbon fiber is way below spec and is a flying eggshell. I’ve gone through two frames so far. I broke the second frame today on its maiden flight, just like the first frame. CNC Madness is a crap company and I’d NEVER buy a frame from them again nor can I recommend the AOS Cine25. I’ve heard the iFlight frames are much better if you buy the bnf. Apparently it isn’t cut by CNC Madness and uses much better CF. What a waste of $64 USD as well as my time. I hope Chris Rosser reads this…

[@christhorney]

@@SkeezyFPV thanks for the info, I have 2 X frames coming from CNC drones in colour carbon, but Australia Post has potentially lost it, so I ordered 2 from iflight supplier in Australia so when the colour carbon ones finally decide to arrive I will be able to directly compare and measure the difference. I'm curious if you got countersunk screws option because that can make the carbon significantly weaker especially on thin carbon

[@cloudwind23]

@@christhorney I'm also curious, allthough it seems CNCDrones is now the only vendor selling this frame

[@christhorney]

@@cloudwind23 australia post sucks ass they lost my package 2 weeks ago and i need to wait until wednesday coming (3 weeks after the expected delivery date) before australia post will allow me to enquire about the package, in the meantime i had to express post 2 more frame kits from an australian seller they are iflight kits (aos35) so if the cnc drones kits ever show up ill be able to compare the colored carbon with iflight standard carbon. for the record 2 arms came in at 3.9mm and 2 at 4.05mm so its worth checking when you assemble and put the thicker ones at the front as they will actually be measureably stronger, the top and bottom plate were also slightly undersized, combined with the counter sunk screws its not really ideal, but its staying together so far and i have had a few big stacks and a lot of little ones, it flies so much better than my crux35 i had overloaded, the crux was great stock but with a heavier stack and vtx and motors it was impossible to get a good tune without the motors getting super hot, so the aos lives upto its hype so far. but the little cinewoop is not made for bashing with 1.5mm hoops its going to break like a mofo as soon as you crash it

[@MJBold_1]

Was on the verge of getting the Lumenier QAVV Mini Cinewhoop when I stumbled across this frame on Rotorbuilds. Since I am so happy with the AOS 5.5 I will probably go with the AOS 35Cine instead though only CNCDrones seem to be selling it still. About the motor size though, Lumenier seem to be using a 2305 motor. Is there a particular reason why you went for something quite a bit smaller?

[@marcusravi1684]

You nailed the intro by pointing out that DJI is just a marketing giant. I love your videos. I particularly like the ones where you interview engineers and experts in the industry with a deep technology analysis. Your channel is the place to go when I'm sick and tired of the politically driven content on KZbin. Thank you!

[@A.Achorn]

Holy Crap great minds think a like. haha All jokes aside since I know I'm no engineer but I'm just blown away this is almost exactly like the 5" laser cut frame I've been working on since the start of the summer. I found an old Thingiverse project (think Naza Era) that was just a top and bottom plate laser cut with stand offs. I took it and reworking it with space for an FPV Camera and VTX. I also fixed some weak spots and tried to make it more efficient. But cause the stand offs were so close to the props I designed Prop guards that snapped around the stand offs just like his for jobs that required it. This also made the plywood laser cut version more usable as the bumpers took most of any impact. I didn't think of two layers though mine are just a "duct" and bumper in one that is really squishy but they snap on exactly the same way. Makes me feel a lot better about the design. I put it to the side for a while maybe now I'll finish it up so there's an Open Source 5" version of something similar. It was a lot of fun and I figure it's an excuse to finally figure out how to do air flow simulations.

[@amuletfpv3959]

Awesome Cambridge flying! I ripped near that smoke stack a few months ago!

[@ChrisRosser]

Nice!! If you're planning to fly there again drop me a note 😁

[@DulaangLaagan]

Hello. I just bought and built the AOS Cine35. I have a video feed vibration issue at high throttle. How can I address this issue?. I am using 2006 motors

[@fpvisland9725]

hi, great video. I am looking for replacement arms for my AOS cine 35. the arms of AOS 3.5 EVO are identical, can I use them?

[@rattusrat]

Would the Walksnail Moonlight fit the AOS Cine35?

[@nikotttin]

Hi Chris, 2 quick questions: 1) where would you mount a gps for rth? 2) can you dive without yaw washout? thank you and great design 👍

[@ChrisRosser]

I would mount the GPS at the rear of the top plate off the two rear standoff screws angled slightly down. If you buy the frame drop me an email and I'll design something for you. Regarding diving, the 3.5" power train is much more resistant to yaw washout than 3" cinewhoops as it has more thrust and authority. Also, for that type of move you'll want to run without any ducting to minimise aero drag.

[@Siamect]

@@ChrisRosser Postmarket support at it's best!!! Gold!😃

[@DavidOwensuk]

A very nice design, and that in itself sells your quads Chris. With regard to your comparison comments, I do think the DJI AVATA will help beginners enter the hobby, in a more accessible way… I also hope it will allow more experienced pilots to buy a ready made solution too, that in the future, will support the new DJI digital FPV system too… If cost is a major factor, then as you say there are cheaper solutions…

[@ChrisRosser]

I agree 100%. The Avata is very beginner friendly with lots of features that make it easy to fly. I think this is both a blessing and a curse. It does help beginners get in the hobby with little to no practice which is great! However, it also limits the types of shots you can get with the drone and doesn't help someone develop the pilot skills needed for flying manually.

[@DavidOwensuk]

@@ChrisRosser thanks for taking time to respond. Have you seen Nurks video kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5OwZIyLh9iChZY ? Big fan of your work too.

[@Quad_Father]

How much does the whole setup cost including the camera you used? I think the Avata with the built in action camera is about $600.

[@chrisbee5481]

You will end up with a total of about 350 Euro for the build parts with dji vista. I like the avata. Personally I have the dji fpv drone and could just buy the avata drone alone and use it with the RC and goggles. But Total turn off is needing to buy two more batteries for 250 bucks

[@elbedouirayen7938]

Hi chris please can chache the pavo 30 with a aos cine25 or a aos cine35?

[@rotorfpv4117]

has aos gps , 1 axis gimbal (possible to change degree), >10 min flight time? no:)

[@ChrisRosser]

That's true (although you can fit GPS). You can change camera angle easily but not in flight. Flight time is ~5 mins with full size Hero9. The DJI Smart battery is quite expensive so you can buy 4-5 flight packs for the Cine35 for the same price as one smart battery which gives you a longer total flight time (but you need to swap batteries of course 😁)

[@HACAFPV]

What props are those? Kinda look like the 4023?

[@cloudwind23]

It looks like CNCDrones is the only vendor that sells this frame. Is iFlight or Armattan also going to restock? I'd rather have their quality of carbon instead of CNCDrones

[@gazafpv]

will this frame support walksnail vtx ? Also not seeing any places to buy really only 1 us website 🤔

[@shadai7398]

In this video... Chris throws (light) shade at DJI. Also in this video, Chris mounts it with a DJI air unit. Good work Chris, look forward to trying this!

[@ChrisRosser]

No doubt DJI make one of the best FPV video links in the business, that's why I use it. That doesn't mean that they make the best everything though. Go Pro makes better action cameras, RCinPower makes better motors, Betaflight is a higher performance flight control software. I think we should use the best of everything on our drones!

[@SkeezyFPV]

@@ChrisRosser I bought the Cine25 frame from CNC Madness and I hate to say this but they are an embarrassment to your name and reputation. The carbon fiber was well below spec, not finished well at all, and I’m thoroughly disappointed. After having to tell CNC Madness that I’d dispute the charge if I didn’t either get a refund or a quality frame I was sent a replacement. It broke in exactly the same spots on its maiden flight on an impact that wouldn’t crack an egg. I hope you get it figured out because Nate and CNC Madness are not the kind of company I’d expect you and your company to be dealing with. I didn’t even get the correct standoffs with my first frame. Ugh… very disappointing, sir.

[@droneshotsfuerteventura3217]

Hi Chris. That looks great. Do you have a list of your recommended Components for the Quad? Did I hear right? 2204 2400KV Motors? What props do you recommend? Any plans on making a 5" Cinelifter Frame?

[@ChrisRosser]

I would recommend 2004/2104 motors. 2000kV/2400kV for 6S or 3000kV for 4S.

[@mcronfpv8736]

Why not 2205 3200kv from iflight ? Protek35 likes the bigger motors

[@v.a.n.t]

Chris, is possible desing a support for caddx vista antenna for this drone? I want it please.

[@alandunphy6746]

Is the AOS Cine35 a ready to fly drone? Can’t seem to find anywhere in the Uk that stocks it?

[@findler]

Do you plan to expand to the European market as well? I'd like that.

[@ChrisRosser]

Yes, it's in progress with iFlight. Once they have production up and running it will be available to Euro retailers.

[@intellidrone]

DJI Avata is made for people that have no skill in acro flying. There is no DIY drone that can match the ease of use of a DJI drone. For everything else I agree with you.

[@ChrisRosser]

100% the ease of use is unparalleled.

[@AegeanEpiphany]

What about the flight controller and all its associated settings - what's the steer here? Or is that all on us as an individual choice?

[@kandredfpv]

Apples, meet oranges! I love the new design but you really didn't need to compare it to the Avata, as it's meant for a completely different market. No way a beginner is gonna be able to build or handle that monster of a drone, but based on what I've seen the new Avata, it is very beginner friendly and far more robust than the earlier Mavic Minis, and it's all plug'n'play (or rather fly) that's why it costs so much more. I think your new frame is for FPV hobbyist and can stand on its own without having to compete with DJI consumer electronics.

[@ChrisRosser]

Thanks for the comment. The comparison to Avata is partly for the YT algorithm and also for aspiring creators who should know about the benefits of Cinewhoops before spending lots on the Avata. I think a lot of creators who want to get into aerial photography would be better served in the long run with a Cinewhoop rather than the Avata.

[@TweakRacer]

Go watch Nurk’s/Tommy's reviews, where they actually have and test the Avata systems… and are both content creators and professional FPV pilots, who use these type of drones for these purposes. Avata has plenty of its own advantages over cinewhoops, but it’s for a different target market and use case anyways. Most non FPV hobbyists would be better served with the Avata. Clickbait title when Chris doesn’t even have nor ever used the Avata system. AP pilots already know about FPV and can find out about cinewhoops easy enough without the clickbait garbage. Don't feign some altruistic reason for making a self serving title and fake comparison.

[@metaldirtnskin]

Hi Chris, love it - though I wonder if you'd consider adding 16x16 motor mount to the arms? Experience with the likes of the Shendrones Terraplane suggests that with a Hero 9/10 and a good-sized battery for a longer flight, 5"-class motors are really needed, especially if you need to fly with the ducts. I can't imagine any 9x9 mount motor being enough for that kind of weight, and for anything smaller a 3" cinewhoop would be perfectly adequate. Having said that, this looks like one of the best entries yet in the 3.5" cinewhoop class... More durable and flexible than most of the others. I would be interested in trying one out!

[@ChrisRosser]

The frame is designed for the 2004/2104 class motors and the 23mm FPV cycles that are 9x9. I think 2004 is ideal for a heavily loaded 3.5" prop with plenty of power and stays very cool. I have tried larger 5" size motors and found they add a lot of weight which reduces the flight time. Perhaps a larger battery would help but then you risk overloading the 3.5" props and getting back to the same problems as trying to carry a hero 10 on a 3" Cinewhoop (yaw washout and propwash) On a 4" prop a 2306/2207 would be my choice to carry a bigger battery. I like being able to share batteries between 5" and 3.5" Cinewhoop as well. 😁

[@metaldirtnskin]

@@ChrisRosser thanks - I do agree the FPVCycle 23mm motors are a good option, I forgot those used the smaller mount. I suppose the balance of camera/battery weight, runtime, performance, etc., is just a little trickier on a cinewhoop than on 5" quads where we are spoiled for choice.

[@bamboosman]

Hey Chris, do you know what is the weight of the frame (without or with ducts)? It looks very versatile, great job. Thank you

[@Алексей-Ижовкин]

Hello Chris. Will iFlight manufacture this frame?

[@ChrisRosser]

Yes, but it takes a while for their production to start up.

[@EliProductions]

Chris will i have room to fit a standard fc esc stack plus the air unit instead of the vista?

[@tomaszboril]

I second this good question! Wondering if I switch the protek35 build with full size air unit into this one.

[@ChrisRosser]

I think with the full size air unit you'd want to use a 25mm AIO in the rear 👍

[@EliProductions]

@@ChrisRosser Thanks Chris! Can you quickly do a fit test to see if the props will strike the AU if mounted there? looking forward to this frame! thanks!

[@PabloDeBiasi]

Nice one! Finally a design with arms separated from the propguards! What about the weight?

[@ChrisRosser]

My build is 275g dry 👍

[@v.a.n.t]

Hello Chris. I like this. if i buy this frame, can you help me with CLI file for tune my drone? I will build from zero.

[@ChrisRosser]

Sure. It's super easy to tune.

[@v.a.n.t]

@@ChrisRosser Hello. i bougth recently this frame. Do you have any email for i can do my questions? Please

[@yaronskp]

Hi Chris. Are you going to expand this line to smaller sized frames?

[@ChrisRosser]

In time I hope to do a Cine25 for naked Go Pro's. 3.5" is where it's at today for the full size Go Pro's in my opinion.

[@yaronskp]

@@ChrisRosser there is plenty of use for 2.5" for indoor projects and many hobbyists are using light cameras as thumb pro. Thank you again for your huge contribution to the community. 🌹

[@micsherwood4930]

you think the GEPRC GEP-F722-45A AIO would work well on the cine35?

[@ChrisRosser]

Yes absolutely. 45A is plenty for 2004 motors.

[@pimenett]

Hi Chris, speaking about stability and smoothness, it would not be better to mount the battery under the frame rather than on top? Thanks!

[@ChrisRosser]

It's helpful to mount the battery as close to the Go Pro as possible to minimise the moment of intertia of the whole system. If mounting the go pro underneath the quad it might be a benefit to also mount the battery underneath.

[@DamunFPV]

I want more detailed info and build guides for CINE70!

[@ChrisRosser]

Coming soon. I'm launching it through Quad Standard Labs!

[@yuesungfung5491]

if it support air unit too and optional tilt camera then it is perfect

[@ChrisRosser]

It supports the original air unit and based on what we know today it should support the new air unit too.

[@trav1c555]

will this frame end up being sold by iflight?

[@rip_fpv]

Hey Chris, I’m super interested in this design and plan to build it shortly. What props do you suggest. Pitch? Would using bull nose props when using the ducts help or not worth it due to the distance from ducts to props?

[@ChrisRosser]

I've not exhaustively tested 3.5" props. I've been flying the Avan Scimitar 3.5" on my build. They are not the most powerful but they are very smooth and altitude control is very easy. If you want more power a 3.5" bullnose will give you more thrust. Ducts don't make a difference in terms of propulsive performance on any cinewhoop, that was more of a theoretical benefit that hasn't been confirmed in practice.

[@thommylue]

Hey Chris, nice video and excellent frame! It fits my needs in every way. Will Iflight sell it in the future too? Or will cncmadness be the only vendor? (Living in the EU so ordering from Canada and US isn't ideal)

[@Curiousity0309]

What is the weight of the frame with hardware? I may have missed that, but I think I didn't ).

[@ChrisRosser]

I haven't got just the frame handy but my build is 275g dry.

[@RCRitterFPV]

Motor mounting 12x12 correct ?

[@anhyx9531]

9x9 up to 12x12

[@erikaspausen]

how many gopros can this drone handle at the same time

[@ChrisRosser]

I would think 2 quite easily for cinematic flying.

[@android131619]

What are the motors brand u are using? And its safe to go 6s on 2400kv??

[@ChrisRosser]

Eco ii 2004s and I think 2400KV on 6S is OK for a 3.5" prop.

[@IvanEfimovLimon]

Blackbox noise looks real nice. Good job on the frame!

[@ChrisRosser]

Thanks!

[@Alf-Dee]

That's awesome! I will rebuild both of my Cinelog35 with this frame! Now, give me time to crash them and have an excuse :) Anyway, it would be super interesting if you would do a build video with GPS and fully tuned iNAV to show off that the Avata is not the only cinewhoop that can do position hold and RTH.

[@ChrisParayno]

The DJI avata will help introduce folks to fpv but those users will never understand why their footage looks as good as one who actually flies manual. It's the whole instant gratification generation.

[@andokewl]

Instant gratification generation?? As technology continuously advancing, things would always be getting better and easier. It’s just part of life. It’s inevitable. But we all have different paths in life. Its just happen many of us is living in a time where DJI created this Avata and it’s accessible to everyone who are willing to spend their money. What you are saying here is like saying, if you drive an automatic cars, you are an instant gratification generation because all cars used to be manual cars and no technology as it is now, with revers cam even 360cam and such. Take it as, we are all lucky how the technology has made our life much easier.

[@ChrisRosser]

Good points on both sides. Technology definitely helps lower the skill barrier for piloting drones. It allows people to get some standard shots without much practice. I think there will always be a place for skilled pilots because their footage will always be more exciting, dynamic and innovative because they are flying without the limitations of the technological aids.

[@ChrisParayno]

@@andokewl yes! I would hope that the DJI software can make shots similar to what current professional pilots can today but at this moment in time I don't think it's possible. But if the look at feel is to be at least 75 percent there as far as usable footage for cinematography, I think it would be passable. At the end of the day, it's all movie magic depending on the application of the footage.

[@ChrisParayno]

@@ChrisRosser accurate statement

[@tlexfpv]

It’s like asking CEOs if Coke or Pepsi is better. The Pepsi CEO of course will say that Pepsi is better

[@westwingaero]

big fan of your work, would love to see a 2.5inch version of this hopefully for a sub 250 build. Ooh is there a UK supplier for these or any of your frames in general

[@YorkyPoo_UAV]

I'd go with the Qav-pro 2.5" for now. Smaller drones won't have as much vibration as larger ones and might not need all of the vibration dampening

[@ChrisRosser]

Working on a 2.5" version. There are some Uk retailers that stock AOS frames (unmanned tech and your FPV) it'll take a few weeks but the Cine35 will be avaiable worldwide.

[@PabloDeBiasi]

@@ChrisRosser any idea on the 2.5 release date? gotta keep it light, ideally under 50g with 3d printed parts, hard to stay under 250g with a decent battery and naked GP9 with ND without decasing the Vista

[@benda2250]

@@ChrisRosser can't wait for this 2.5' version with a naked gopro

[@Atledahl]

@@ChrisRosser The Cine35 is just what I was missing! Thanks! I would also love to see a 2.5" version, if you can get the frame weight(with screws&standoffs) under 50grams or even 40-45grams, I'm sold! There are many good options now, but they are all 50-55grams, which is just a little to much to get a naked GP10 and a decent size battery under 250g.

[@AerialWaviator]

A very nice well thought out design. Have a feeling there's going to be some interest in this frame. :) Only question I had was with the positioning of the foam duct accessories (5:15). A side view of a single and double stack would have been nice. Perhaps a couple photos when list as an accessory on the product page. (minor question really, in overall context of a great design)

[@ChrisRosser]

Sure, let me give a bit more info for you. The gap between top and bottom plate is 25mm. I've provided two designs: a 24mm full height duct and a 12mm half height duct on thingiverse. You can use two sets of half height ducts stacked to get the full height effect, of course. I would position the half height duct against the bottom plate. Half height gives a noticeable duct drag effect. Full height gives the fully ducted feel and they snap on and off in seconds.

[@k4x4map46]

Whew dogggy!1 You stepping up heavy right here man this is sweet!! I like the versatile frame in that you can install what you like versus having to paper chase a particular 'digital' brand name!! Nice very nice!!

[@ChrisRosser]

Appreciate it!!

[@Eazidosit]

So how is this cheaper? Go pro 10 399, cost of flight controller, cost of goggles easily 500$ or higher, cost of batteries, cost of the drone.

[@ChrisRosser]

If you have absolutely nothing then you'll need to go for a refurb Hero 8/9 to get equivalent cost. If you already have a Go Pro the cost is of course much less. If you happen to have a 5 inch as well the cost goes down a lot as you can share batteries, radio and goggles. Incremental cost for someone who is fully into DJI (goggles, radio etc.) £499 + spare batteries at £109 each. Incremental cost for someone with a 5 inch drone and Go Pro ~£300-350 + spare batteries at £20 each (but may not need them as can use 5" batteries).

[@Adamlhodge]

I don't understand why people try to compare the DJI system to what we fly they're completely different systems meant for completely different situations and in my opinion if you watched any of the videos it flies amazing and is very durable, if you strap a GoPro hero 10 on it you'll get the same footage that you do from the sinalog 35 I do agree with you I love to fly acro for my shots but this is an inaccurate description of the DJI system I see what you're trying to do and I understand but at the same time you can't throw a cinelog 35 and a newcomer's hands and expect them to be able to fly that's where DJI comes in intuitive flies great and no other camera has 48 megapixels for still shots. Just pointing it out take it easy on jumping on the bashing DJI bandwagon nobody likes somebody who puts down other people even though it seems like it in this hobby not a good idea but that being said I think you are a brilliant scientist and a great pilot and appreciate everything you have brought to the hobby just my two cents on a very heated subject that doesn't need any more fuel. Thanks again for all your hard work Chris Misfit fpv supports you

[@ChrisRosser]

Thanks for the comment. Very fair and balanced. My goal with the video was to make aspiring creators just getting into cinematic FPV aware that the Avata may not be the best platform for them. Some new creators might be better served by a Cinewhoop like the Cine35 which will scale better into the future as they add new drones of different sizes etc. That said the Avata may still be the better system for absolute beginners who are less concerned about scaling or don't want to invest the time in learning acro piloting.

[@LZRFPV]

Awesome quad! However, those ducts and half ducts don’t make sense… I don’t think those will provide any benefit except slow you down and make you get tossed around by the wind more. It doesn’t provide any efficiency because the props are not close enough and the shape is sharp

[@chrisbee5481]

No ducted bnf drone on the market has real ducts that actually give the benefit of a duct. These are all more prop guards. Check out shendrones if you want real ducts

[@LZRFPV]

@@chrisbee5481 yes I know that. That’s my whole point.

[@LZRFPV]

@@chrisbee5481 but he mentioned benefits from half ducts or full ducts. That confused me

[@ChrisRosser]

So there has been a lot of discussion on this topic. To the best of my knowledge no ducted drone on the market achieves a propulsive efficiency benefit from using ducts. The extra weight of the ducts more than offsets any thrust benefit. However, ducts create "duct drag" due to how they constrain the air moving through the prop. This REALLY helps when trying to capture certain shots chasing slow moving targets in close proximity. Half height vs full height ducts allows you to tune this "duct drag" so you have just the right amount for the speed of the target you are chasing. A target might be a bit too fast for full ducts but still too slow for an unducted setup for example. You are spot on that ducts make the drone a bit more susceptible to wind but the "duct drag" effect is so useful that it's often worth it.

[@LZRFPV]

@@ChrisRosser interesting! Thanks for the explanation!

[@ThomasAndersonFPV]

And where is the AOS Cine 25 HD?

[@ChrisRosser]

It's just a twinkle in my eye. But I do intend to make a Cine25 for naked Go Pro's with the same key features.

[@ThomasAndersonFPV]

@@ChrisRosser If you make it also good for the action 2 I get a twinkle as well :D. Maybe when the goggle 2 air units come?

[@TimboFPV]

@@ChrisRosser Yes please would love to make a sub250 setup this way :)

[@MojoPapiFPV]

The over sharpening is really crushing your image quality

[@ChrisRosser]

I followed a previous comment that suggested the following settings: 4k30, High bitrate, ISO 100, Auto shutter, Sharpness to high. What settings do you use?

[@PabloDeBiasi]

@@ChrisRosser medium sharpness is already oversharpened, while low is a blurry mess ans you lose too much detail, go with medium IMHO (and 180° or 90° shutter with ND filter for best results)

[@ChrisRosser]

@@PabloDeBiasi Thanks, I'll try Medium. 😁

[@metalmonkey1113]

Are you going to do a build video? Can the frame be purchased in the UK directly?

[@ChrisRosser]

It will be available in the UK soon!

[@OdysseusVrakas]

Sigh. I just got a 3.5inch frame that I do love and this comes out. Next build then. Btw you didn't tell us the weight

[@ChrisRosser]

I don't have a bare frame handy but my build is 175g dry.

[@STEDDiEFPV]

Shouldn’t be so fixated in frame resonance if everyone is going to stabilise the footage out of a cinewhoop anyway.

[@ChrisRosser]

Frame resonance creates blur and jello in the footage that cannot be removed by stabilisation. Stabilisation can only remove slow wobbles not fast vibration. The result is smooth but blurry footage which damages the image quality significantly.

[@fpv-teacher]

Finally someone speaks out loud. Of course there are people who this is the right drone for but not for me. I am Hundred percent FPV.

[@ChrisRosser]

Absolutely. For us FPV pilots there are a lot of features which we will never use and the quality of footage isn't quite at the level of the latest Go Pro's. For most consumers ease of use is the most important thing. That said, I think people who are serious about their footage will still be using a Cinewhoop + Go Pro.

[@fpv-teacher]

@@ChrisRosser the freedom we have with FPV will never be the same with a drone

[@nuhbiwan]

Glad to see you moved your camera up. No more looking down on us😅

[@ChrisRosser]

Yes! I'm glad you think the new angle is better. Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it and your support!

[@74Ch1m]

Hi Chris, awesome design and unique features. One thing I’d like to ask. Do you think or even know if it will be compatible with the new DJI air unit? Meaning will the AU fit in and will the Camera fit in. If yes I’ll be more than happy to place an order. Thanks in advance and keep it coming.

[@ChrisRosser]

Based on what we know today there should be plenty of space for the new Air unit and camera.

[@74Ch1m]

Just placed my order. 😍

[@mab4195]

another cool frame!! thanks man! I really appreciate your work! Will it be available in Italy from Farins Frames?

[@ChrisRosser]

I will work with them on it. I hope so!

[@breakflight]

I think you need to change how you describe your camera mount. Is it used by something other than AOS? If so, then call it out. Otherwise, it's a camera mount that's not one of the primary ones. There's nothing inferior about it, but it isn't the standard for what I know so far.

[@ChrisRosser]

I don't know if it's used by other brands yet. BrainFPV and some other manufacturers have started making 32*32 mounts in recent months so I think it is starting to become a standard pattern.

[@christophergran8313]

if I were to build a cinewhoop this would be my frame of choice. Those camera mountings are useful in some applications. When I get my part 107 later this year I'll do a dedicated build for cinematics.

[@ChrisRosser]

I think mostly I'll be using the front camera mount but versatility is the key for Cinewhoops!

[@w1llyFPV]

@Chris Rosser I'd like to ask you if all components from Protek35 (analog) can be transferred to this frame without any problems. Thank you in advance.

[@ChrisRosser]

I would think so, no problem!

[@aphinion]

FINALLY! The frame I've been waiting for all year :3 The Intro was big fun too! ;)

[@ChrisRosser]

Glad you liked it! I enjoyed doing the intro very much. 😁

[@spi25888]

Wow this is great news!!! Is there a plan for a smaller factor 25 or 20 for naked or peanut? Those added ducts are brilliant!!!

[@ChrisRosser]

Yep a Cine25 is in the works for naked Go Pro

[@PKNEXUS]

Ordered! Thanks for another amazing frame Chris.

[@ChrisRosser]

Awesome, thank you!

[@theboydidgood]

I feel like my wait is over! Sorry if I've missed this Chris but what props are you using and what sort of bat life are you getting with the build in the video?

[@ChrisRosser]

5 minutes and I'm using the Avan Scimitar 3.5" props.

[@thePHXstudio]

Hey Chris, thanks for all your hard work in creating such amazing tools for our community! Question - is there a way to configure this frame so that it’s not in the “pusher” configuration? Do you believe that setting it up as a “pusher” is truly beneficial in getting smooth performance and footage?

[@ChrisRosser]

Yes. You can mount the battery toilet tank style and mount the go pro on the other side and angle the FPV camera and fly it upside down no problem. Pusher provides about 10% more thrust and slightly better efficiency. It also keeps the props slightly further away from the talent.

[@butcher]

I've just started to design for 3.5" size based on aos v5, but fortunately I don't have to spend time for this anymore :)))

[@feliatene757]

Or just mount a GoPro on the Avata 🤷🏿‍♂️ Boom! You got the footage.

[@ChrisRosser]

I don't think the Avata can lift a full size Go Pro very easily. Maybe a naked Go Pro but then you'd need to mod the battery to power it which might void the warranty.

[@feliatene757]

@@ChrisRosser already been done and works fine, watch Original DOBO’s Avata playlist

[@feliatene757]

FYI, it’s a pusher style whoop, like the Beta95X pusher.

[@ggixxler8904]

This would be my next whoop frame. Fantastic design 🤩. Very nice intro btw.😄👍 An it is true, who needs dji, we have Chris Rosser 😊

[@ChrisRosser]

Thanks 😁 I think professionals are going to stick with their Go Pro's and Cinewhoops for a while yet!

[@Siamect]

Good job. I fly 5 and 7 inch now but if I ever need a ducted drone I certainly will try this one. Well done 👍.

[@ChrisRosser]

Thank you! They are very useful for flying through dense foliage. It's amazing what you can get away with 😁

[@rotorfpv4117]

this is not a ducted drone

[@ChrisRosser]

@@rotorfpv4117 It can be if you fit the ducts. There are half height and full height printed ducts for the frame.

[@droneshotsfuerteventura3217]

I finally got my Cine35 frame. Put it together yesterday and had my maiden flight on it today. Here is the vid kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6fbiWqXath0itU. Thanks a lot for a great Cinewhoop fame. Love how smooth it flies.

[@robertfinkelsen460]

I love it and was ready to pull the trigger and buy it but to have a fixed GoPro angle mount on a cinewhoop no I’m out till someone designs one for your frame

[@ChrisRosser]

They exist already! www.thingiverse.com/thing:4981337

[@Eazidosit]

I just brought a hglrc sector d5 with a controller and 3 batteries iflight commando 8 for over 700. Then I got the DJI action 2 for 556 with tax. Fortunately I already had goggles do that would have been another 569$ at the time for the DJI goggles v2.

[@bigdaddyjuicerfpv2033]

Does the Cine35 have 15+mins of flight time? Transmit 1080p video to the goggles? GPS return to home? Downward sensors? Have smart batteries? C'mon, Apples to Oranges there Chris. The better footage comes from the Gopro, not your drone. I have the Avata with a Gopro mount from Dobo. The Bones with the Avata is the best way to go. Honestly, compared to your mostly Amazing content, this is just silly. No question your frames are the best available, but this comparison is misleading. If your drone came with goggles, controller, battery charger, battery, 4k camera, etc - then we could compare. The Avata is amazing, have you flown one yourself yet?

[@duelz9366]

I agree with him The Avata is a complete waste of money for someone that isn’t a beginner. We don’t need half the crap you mentioned

[@bigdaddyjuicerfpv2033]

@@duelz9366 Not sure who this "we" is you are talking about, but regardless if you feel you need that crap or not - trying to compare the Avata to his frame is just dumb. Apples to Oranges. I never said "we" need all this "crap" just pointed out the MAJOR differences and why this entire video was just silly.

[@ChrisRosser]

I think it's fair to compare the two. They both have the same purpose, to capture cinematic aerial footage. And a Go Pro on the Cine35 will capture better footage. All the extra features on the Avata do make it easier to fly for a beginner. But you pay a lot for functionality that doesn't contribute to the final shot.

[@TweakRacer]

Like saying my modded Miata is faster on a track day than a Maybach.... Worthless comparison. Why not just own up to making this so-called comparison with Avata in the title and thumbnail as a self serving attempt to get views, clicks, and product sales? Go watch Nurk’s/Tommy's reviews, where they actually have and test the Avata systems… and are both content creators and professional FPV pilots, who use these type of drones for these purposes. Avata has plenty of its own advantages over cinewhoops, but it’s for a different target market and use case anyways. Most non FPV hobbyists would be better served with the Avata. Clickbait title when Chris doesn’t even have nor ever used the Avata system. AP pilots already know about FPV and can find out about cinewhoops easy enough without the clickbait garbage. Don't feign some altruistic reason for making a self serving title and fake comparison.

[@ChrisRosser]

@POTGRINDER FPV I'm not. It might be KZbin's automoderation.

[@CarbonGlassMan]

Yeah, but can you control it with your thoughts like DJI? lol. Kidding. Nice little quad.

[@crash_lander]

Using DJI FPV system in your drones you shouldnt be saying negative as it contradicts your own opinion.

[@ChrisRosser]

I don't see why that should be the case. Just because DJI make an excellent FPV system doesn't mean that they make the best of everything. Go Pro make better action cameras, Betaflight makes better flight control software, RcinPower make better motors. I say we should use the best of everything in our drone.

[@ls4life544]

Uff, amazing design 👏🏽 👏🏽 I thought I was not going to get in to cinewhoop but you are making change my thoughts. The frame looks great and it versatility.

[@ChrisRosser]

If you only want one cinewhoop then this one can get the widest variety of shots. And uses the same batteries as a 5".

[@ls4life544]

@@ChrisRosser I have your AOS5 v2 and it flight great. I will looking to get this one as well.

[@baggszilla]

Chris you are an absolute genius! Cheers buddy!

[@ChrisRosser]

Wow, thanks!

[@Guenounovitch]

and the hero 11 in 30 days

[@ChrisRosser]

Ooh exciting! That means I can afford a hero 10 in a few months 😜

[@yyin88]

Sweet action camera mounting positions! Now I want to migrate my cinelog35 electronics to AOS cine35! There is so much vibration in my cinelog35.....

[@markifi]

i wonder what's the lowest upfront equipment cost that can capture practically the same footage as you did here. i'm thinking this frame, but ditch the gopro for a used dji action 1 and fly line of sight. 400-500 €? maybe less even (those cameras can be had for around 150 and have an excellent image)

[@ChrisRosser]

It's a good idea. Then you can upgrade to FPV goggles and better action camera over time if you like it!

[@meirvin]

not cheaper when figure in cost of GoPro

[@ChrisRosser]

If you choose a refurbished Go Pro Hero 9 the cost comes out very similar or slightly less (in the UK at least it might be different in the USA). With a new Go Pro it would be a little more you are right. It also depends how many Avata batteries you buy as they are 4-5x the cost of typical flight packs but only give 2-3x the flight time.

[@MCsCreations]

Awesome review, Chris! 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@ChrisRosser]

Thanks! You too, all the best for you and your family 😁

[@GTRFPV]

Take my money now.

[@dominicbicknell1784]

Hey Chris I noticed that was Cambridge you were flying around, I live fairly nearby if you want to fly together some time

[@ChrisRosser]

Yeah! I'm always up for that. If you're ever in Cambridge with a few drones hit me up on Discord and I'll show you my favourite places to fly.

[@dominicbicknell1784]

@@ChrisRosser will do mate, I'll come by next week for a fly around if you're free

[@Noidfpv]

Yes! This is great man.😎👍

[@ChrisRosser]

Thanks! 👍

[@tuhotomi]

Excellent intro! 😁🔥🔥

[@roystevenson9632]

Excellent, Sub 250 version please. I would also like to see a non pusher with removable cage/prop guards.

[@ChrisRosser]

If you don't want a pusher config you can fly the drone upside down no problem as the battery and go pro can mount on either side. Pusher provides about 10% more thrust and efficiency and keeps the props further away from the talent which is why it's the standard.

[@dabfpv]

LIghter 7 inch please :)

[@billmcdonald4335]

I saw a couple of review viddies on the Avata. Excuse my French, but for proxy flying, the stock tune on the thing appears to be piss-poor; dangerous, actually - it _forcefully_ sucks itself to any vertical surface at the slightest impact. It was also scary when it touched people - it sucked itself into them multiple times. Considering its intended use, this is unacceptable for a factory tune, wot wot? Another well-thought-out design, Chris. Like you say: better bang for the buck than that other crowd. . . ;)

[@Curiousity0309]

Any cinewhoop does that.

[@billmcdonald4335]

@@Curiousity0309 Really? Baked-in? Nothing to be done abut it? Can't tune it out? I must be tuning my rigs all wrong, then. . .

[@Curiousity0309]

@@billmcdonald4335 you are a good at sarcasm ). Any whoop will get sucked in to a wall or anything until you disarm it or if airmode is off - until you drop down the throttle. It's not about the tune, just skills of who controls it.

[@billmcdonald4335]

​@@Curiousity0309 Yah. Tell that to mine. It thinks it's an air-hockey puck. It ricochets off things, and rides walls no prob. It's cheap Chinese junk, not a top-line unit, but it's _tuned_ to not be a threat to people, property, and livestock. If a duffer like me can get mine flying like that, one should expect DJI to do it even better. Yet what I've seen - on several channels, mind - is a unit that's _not_ tuned for the intended job. For DJI, that's disappointing.

[@PIDtoolbox]

Really nice!

[@ChrisRosser]

Thank you!