DLC Bookclub - HOUSE OF CHAINS - MALAZAN BOOK OF THE FALLEN - Chapters 12-14

[@stevelundin5705]

'Kurald' specifies the Tiste warrens. Emurlahn is the Edur (Shadow) Warren, Liosan for the Lios (Light), and Galain for the Andii, (Darkness). 'Thyrllan' is the non-Elder version of Light and it does involve a blending of T'lan Thyr (Fire) with Light. Or something like that. Traveller is Dal Honese. Captain Kindly, ironically named? No way! As an aside, a lot of the dialogue between Lostara and Pearl was, uhm, inspired by sundry conversations and exchanges between me and my wife. On much more serious notes ... re Bidithal ... genital mutilation is part of our world. And we know it. Yet it continues. These elements in the novel were certainly intended to be uncomfortable. That said, the answer coming (in the book) is itself controversial. The question of cultural relativism is a complicated one, and one I admit coming down firmly on one side of: when tradition involves systematic suffering of people within a population, is not the objective hands-off stance itself heinous? To be sure, in anthropology, it was a question with no easy answer, particularly when the default position is honouring cultural diversity. I would think anyone with an ounce of humanity would reject that 'objective' assertion of sanctity. But then, what do I know? Cheers, SE

[@moresoysauce5489]

These books have glossaries Lana! Hahahaha 😂

[@ACriticalDragon]

As ever, Steve dodges the really important question about d'ivers sausages.

[@stevelundin5705]

Oh fine then! D'ivers can be anything, even sausages (but only the linked ones). My original version of the Path of Hands included d'ivers mushrooms, grapes, and vicious pomegranates, and that's just the sneaky ones. To be more specific, the sausages option proved problematic. Ground up meat is kind of the bottom of the slippery slope for D'ivers. Taste-wise, I'd recommend a sundry mix of d'ivers lettuces, cherry tomatoes, arugula and your favourite, cilantro, in a rendered dhenrabbi oil and balsamic dressing, sprinkled with chopped-up Soletaken carp gills. Or am I missing the point of your question? Who are you, again?

[@ACriticalDragon]

@@stevelundin5705 I am clearly a seeker of truth, out to ensure that wily authors answer the hard hitting questions.

[@quinnloucks2869]

@@moresoysauce5489 when I used to read exclusively with paper books, I was constantly jumping to the map or to the glossary. Now with a kindle, that is annoyingly easy and not something I do. Instead I have a map of the entire Malazan world on my phone browser that I just keep opening.

[@Jabberwhorl_Cronstadt]

Regarding the more harrowing scenes of the Book of the Fallen, Erikson puts on an absolute clinic throughout the series on how to include r***, torture, mutilation, etc. without being gratuitous or voyeuristic. It's there because these are real things that happen in the world, and pretending that they don't would be a disservice to those who have endured. As Karsa says, "Witness." They also always have consequences and give us space to analyze our ideas of forgiveness and justice. Also, I think some people get hung up on the fact that these serious things are occurring in a fantasy novel, but I really appreciate Erikson's resolve in not holding back because this is genre fiction. For me, the strength of his prose settles any arguments over whether fantasy can be literature.

[@Tremain]

I've noticed something about this books, they are so good they make you forget how good the previous books are. I love how excited you guys are about everything, it actually makes me retroactively like the book more.

[@nojohns1748]

Yes! we have finally reached ,my favorite chapters of the entire S.E.R.I.E.S.

[@ginofication]

That... was... the greatest 8 mins of KZbin I have every watched. I am eager to one day actually read the Malazan books and officially take this journey with you both, for now, I just couldn't hesitate but check in on how your journey was going. So glad I checked in! Happy New Year!

[@slidenaway]

“If you, Jeff, eat a hot dog made of Lana boar” Is a phrase I could never have predicted I’d hear

[@StarUnreal]

Kurald Galain --> Darkness --> Tiste Andii Kurald Emurlahn (shattered) --> Shadow --> Tiste Edur & some others in fragments Kurald Liosan --> Light --> Tiste Liosan I think Steve's comment clears things up, but sometimes little arrows do wonders.

[@SouravUldyssian]

Its Kurald Thyrllan. Liosan is the name of the people.

[@Ad4msI]

I usually like to highlight moments if great emotional or thematic resonance but sometimes you just have to highlight something because it’s bad ass. What stands out to me here is the description of time - only four breaths: “It was then that the screams began. The rope lashed out from Cotillion’s right hand; a long-knife was in his left, seeming to do little but lick and touch everyone it came close to-but the result was devastating. The air was a mist of suspended blood around the patron god of assassins, and before Cutter drew his fourth breath since the battle began, it was over, and around Cotillion there was naught but corpses.”

[@dentonholmgren4886]

Just a heads up, Messremb was not the bear skin that Karsa is wearing as far as I know. Messremb was helping fight the soletaken with Mappo, Icarium, Fiddler and the rest at Tremelor when a Hound of Shadow attacked him and Messremb ends up getting trapped by the Azath roots. I think the hound of shadow thought Messremb was also attacking the crew which is why they fought. The Soletaken bear Karsa killed was just another soletaken, not sure if anything else is known about it.

[@Jabberwhorl_Cronstadt]

Possible non-spoiler topic! Very unoriginal but it's a favorite of any fan community: Casting characters for a Malazan TV/movie adaptation! We need your two cents and I think House of Chains is a good point in the series to do it 😃

[@dafuzz1500]

I think the team behind the Netflix Castlvania animation series could do it justice. I suppose there's a full story this time if HBO wants to roll the dice.

[@charlesdunne7909]

True fantasy casting or "Available now and could do it" fantasy casting? I'd like to see John Wick era Keanu as Cotillion.

[@charlesdunne7909]

@@dafuzz1500 or maybe the Arcane team?

[@Flicker-kel-Tath]

At the end of Ch14 I wouldn’t read Karsa’s last response as him accepting the position of Knight of Chains. His response is far more ambiguous. He is acknowledging that there is a potential place for him within the House of Chains, but he hasn’t accepted it. He is also indicating that he has ‘learned’ - that he is not the naive young warrior he was at the start of the novel.

[@SouravUldyssian]

Regarding Felisin, it's harrowing, but FGM is such a terrible thing to even consider, and yet its taken from real life incidents. But the more important part here, is the one that Jeff caught on so well, that is the inaction of people in power, for their convenience. What happened to Felisin could have been easily avoided, everyone knew this was a possibility, and yet did nothing, because they needed Bidithal, because it was inconvenient to deal with that now. This mirrors so much of the real world, where horrifying things happen, just because people who could have stopped it, good people even, choose to do nothing, because its inconvenient. Silgar being the one to lure Felisin is important, but I don't think it would have mattered even if he wasn't there, Bidithal would have found another way.

[@Flicker-kel-Tath]

At the end of Ch12 Pearl and Lostara briefly intersect with the T’lan Imass that were hunting the false god within Kurald Thyrllan - these were with the T’lan Imass that were with Trull and Onrack previously. The blood trail is from the mortally wounded false god. So the second warren Pearl and Lostara stumble into is Kurald Thyrllan. 53:01

[@FranzBinder20]

Around 51:00 I think you missed that this site (including the Imass head) was the aftermath of the battle of the T'lan Imass against the false god in the Tiste Liosan warren.

[@SouravUldyssian]

Oh this will be a long one. Another fantastic episode, as always. While making the chapter breakups, I knew this will be the longest one, but this was the best way I could do. As already stated, the throne in Drift Avalii is Throne of Shadow, not Darkness, that's why the Edur want it. Mr. Erickson has already commented on the Kurald warren namings. Regarding why Cotillion didn't come sooner and sent Crockus, its because the gods try not to meddle directly as much as possible, as that draws other gods and leads to convergence, so as long as possible they try to get their work done through mortals. Keep the chained Otataral dragon filed in your mental cabinet for later. Will touch on Felisin in another comment. Read Heboric's dream sequence with the Jade statues once more, and file that for later. Its impossible to understand that now, but important for later. One correction, Felisin, Heboric, Kulp and Baudin didn't go through the warren of fire, they landed straight from the Silanda into Raraku. Only Gesler, Stormy and Truth went through the fire warren, and only they are immune to fire. One last correction, Messremb is not the bear that Karsa killed. Karsa just killed a huge bear, that was just a bear. Messremb was with Mappo and company in Tremorlor at the end, and was helping them, but he was captured by the Azath.

[@TBaggins96]

About Heboric, it's extremely important to note that he wasn't just tripping balls (although he certainly was!) but, as the book says, "revelation filled his mind." When he sees the jade giants plummeting through the chaotic wound in space, he has a realization that is based off of his combined knowledge of history and priesthood, and it clicks in his mind (quote) "Thus, the Crippled God was brought down to our world. Through this . . . this terrible puncture. And these giants . . . follow. Like an army behind its commander. Or an army in pursuit." Very important to remember!

[@EricMcLuen]

So if Traveller was from Napan and not Dal Hon, would that make him 'blue Traveller'? Just to confise the issue further, soletaken and d'ivers are two different things. Soletaken changes into one, d'ivers usually into many.

[@slidenaway]

In case it doesn’t get corrected, *Throne of Shadow not *Throne of Darkness

[@bobbob-cd9yl]

These are heavy chapters been waiting for this episode for a while

[@quinnloucks2869]

Re: Anomander Rake’s children-I think I’m getting this right, Andarist says that their parents did as their father (thus a literal lineage) did and left with the same wandering searching spirit. I sense that there is a lot about the weight of immortality in this book. With Osric, Andarist, Onrack and others with actions or words commenting on the futility of living forever. In a way almost jealous of the urgency that mortals’ lives give them. I was reminded of the line in one of the first few Robert Jordan Wheel of Time books from Lan-Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather.

[@aaronmcleod387]

as a nitpick it's not "Super sigh-on" but "super say-in" ;). At least thats how i hear most folks pronounce it, and what i picked up as a kid watching DBZ in the 90s

[@KarelOrlong]

Supposing a D'Ivers farmer turns into 7 pigs, then veers back into human form with one of them, could he then make a living slaughtering the other 6 and selling their meat? This sounds like a subplot for one of the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach novellas.

[@Yungshamgod]

read Kharkanas lol this wouldn’t work

[@slidenaway]

Let’s go happy Thursdayyyyyyyy

[@dafuzz1500]

Aghh i mistracked the reading chapters! Brb. On the Soultaken / D'ivers sausage discussion. What would you get from the human mass/Treach beast from the last book? Special Stuff?

[@quinnloucks2869]

Re: Jhag trapped in tower-she was saying she was pure blood and that her children were half blood right? (Hence the sexual tension?)

[@NeoTemplar]

TRS was Epsteins favorite show.

[@salomealhusami594]

Every mysterious character is Baudin to Lana. 😑🤦🏻