Learning to Trad Climb: Part 3 - How to build a belay

[@mikecheque]

No instructional climbing video comment section would be complete without a bunch of blokes giving their reasons for why the perfectly safe methods described aren’t legitimate and their own slightly different variation is superior.

[@pixelcrust]

the thing is, climbing can always be made safer, and just because nothing happened for you or the person that is showing something doesnt mean its the best way to do it. being open for advice and critique is important here :)

[@JFalke95]

Somebody had to say it

[@charlie.carter.outdoors]

Amen brother

[@simmojosh71]

@@pixelcrust The point is their methods are not "safer" or "better" they work better for them but they are just different ways of doing things. It's the way they are framing their comments that is the issue.

[@stephenchurch1784]

To be fair, we all learned slightly differently and we tend to be leary of other methods until they've proven themselves to us. Even if Honnald gave me a tip, I'd test it while backed up on something placed the way that has saved my life countless times in the past

[@alice-alicekerrmountaineer9031]

Thanks for all the comments and it's great to see and hear that people are enjoying these videos! :)

[@mw5360]

These are absolutely fantastic. So calm and slowly through everything. Thanks!

[@alarge1819]

I don't trad climb. But really useful info and explained really clearly.

[@Ianp-mg4hv]

You’re an excellent instructor, videos are very educational and are the perfect pace to keep up with 🙌🏼

[@VALERYAN581]

very,very good video ❤❤❤

[@toysrus2413]

You are lovely

[@DivergentEvolution]

A brand new set of DMM offsets: one of the most beautiful sights in all of climbing.

[@ski4life9]

Right after a brand new double rack of dragons! Love me some hexes, and bull dogs too

[@armandmatossian2081]

This is casually the best description I’ve heard of over vs under cammed 2:38. Every other description talks about angle. The angle is hard to guess and see. But the face contact is so much clearer!

[@lukemagee462]

Just getting into climbing and what a great video this is. Learnt tons watching this and Alice is a fantastic teacher! Patient and clear with her explanations.

[@rock_6022]

Brings back happy memories of my early trad days! Ah! Those were the good old days! These days I mainly boulder but I am looking to get back into trad and brushing up on old skills! :)

[@TLauriks]

Wow, I've seen loads and loads of instruction video's and I can honestly say I understood way more from this video than from 95% of other video's. Thanks a lot! I liked the clear instructions and specially the added reasons of doing or not doing something in a specific way.

[@marknugent7716]

Amazing 3 videos Alice has such a nice way of teaching always on the ball respect

[@forrestmorrisey]

This is a really great instructional series. Well thought out and executed. As a former educator, I really admire Alice's teaching style of guiding the learner while allowing them room to explore.

[@davidredshaw448]

As someone who doesn't climb much because I'm living at the non-mountain end of the country but who leads a bit and tries to keep my "leading mentality" alive, I've found two series of instructional videos of great help. Yours is one and Glenmore Lodge in Aviemore is another. Both well illustrated and explained. Hope you don't mind me mentioning the competition! All in the cause of keeping us safe.

[@Greebstreebling]

I started climbing in 1981. I've done a fair bit and been on a few stances with belays which were a single manky nut in a crack, or a sling hooked over something that'll only work if the rope pulls in a particular direction - a 'don't fall off' belay. Those are in the minority and it's good to learn how to do things properly, saves bad dreams in later life... :)

[@polymangler]

Yes, I'm loving all the clear and safe instruction. This is one of the best online resources I've seen for learning the concepts of trad climbing. thank you for creating these.

[@rangertommy]

Excellent video! I think the only caveat I'd add (and of course, climbers have to add caveats!) is that if you think your next pitch is going to max out the length of your rope, the sling method is definitely the better option, as it takes up almost no additional rope length. But that's not a critique in any way, shape, or form of your video! Just another factor to add to the mix when considering which type of anchor to establish. Great stuff!

[@ruby_tzbro]

You are doing such an excellent job on every video. Everything is clear, logical and pragmatic. Thank you for making these! Greetings from France

[@jackhuxley6788]

The best explanation of top rope anchors and belaying I've found

[@onthetrail202]

Really enjoyed these videos, me and my partner tried some Trad in North Wales earlier this year and now I’m just inching to get back out!

[@nigelmtb]

Itching??

[@damienmcgovern5687]

Absolutely class videos Alice. I have been collecting climbing youtube instructional videos for a few years, as I only climb intermittently, and need a wee coaching refresher from time to time. This series of videos are the best I have seen! Thanks so much from doing them, fantastic resource to have available.

[@GeorgiaSender]

What a great video! Alice explained the "why" very well. Plus she showed how to build an anchor with a sling or the rope. Im the climber that builds the clove without doubling back to a carabiner on my harness. Not anymore. It really is the little things that make life so much better! lol

[@mrcrumb4302]

…really useful series of videos. Thanks.

[@tacul9333]

Nice video. I've been climbing for 35+ years, and I learned something from watching.

[@andycloquet]

Clear, simple, well explained and engaged the Second in ‘doing.’

[@uttley23]

amazing teacher! loving these vids...thank you!

[@tonydickson1489]

Brilliant, clear, effective instruction 👍🏼👍🏼 super solid

[@FergusRuart]

Where is the master point that your second clips into on the rope built anchor when they have finished the pitch - would you clip them to the HMS (9:16)

[@mattbaker1683]

I watched to the end to see what methods you use to get more out of your sling but it didn't happen! I have seen the clove hitch method and an inline overhand method, both of which would effectively turn the 2x cams into one piece and give a V (rather than a W) to make the masterpoint. What is your preference on this? And of course the shelf method with no masterpoint gives a bit extra to play with, but doesn't work with 3 independent pieces. All in all a very good video, up there with the best online content. One thing not mentioned (I know, the video has to have a limit) is that placing multiple pieces in one crack system is OK but needs thought, especially multiple cams which produce a lot of outward force when loaded, so make absolutely sure it is solid rock.

[@dmmclimbing81]

Hey - Alice here. Thanks for the feedback, all your points are correct; the additional topics that you have mentioned here are covered in the next few episodes! So keep an eye out and you should see all of this in the next films.

[@mitchellbaker4806]

She is such a good teacher.

[@marcelorofer]

What an amazing series, thank you!!

[@arselihp]

I'm intrigued by this very British anchor setup of looping the rope through the pro and cloving to an HMS on your harness. It's a clever, gear-efficient way to build anchors when you've got 2x50m ropes and pitches that are usually much shorter than that. But it's not obvious to me the best way to redirect the follower so they're on the anchor rather than my harness--my partner is >14 stone and I have no interesting in him dangling off of me for any amount of time.

[@briAction]

Seems like it's best for topping out or when you really only need an anchor for the belay, like how their placement is super deep on that shelf and you could basically camp up there.

[@daveingerslev]

You can set up a direct belay from the shelf, by clipping one strand of each pair going to a piece of protection. But even if you belay from the rope loop, then if they fall, as long as you are standing in a sensible place (i.e. you have set up the anchor thinking about the direction the climber is coming from), the force will go onto the anchor. It'll just force you to step sideways.

[@arselihp]

@@daveingerslev That makes sense. I'm picturing an anchor built with pieces below waist height--in that scenario, I think I'd much rather be pulled toward those pieces than toward the climber?

[@daveingerslev]

​@arselihp that's not unusual. It's common to sit down so that you're at the right height.

[@eliza_22]

Awesome instructional video. TY

[@243WW]

Bomber! $5000 of gear on her loops. NICE. Very well instructed

[@Aliceswonderclam]

20:53 end knot the clove hitch so you don’t fall off anchor?

[@beatagraczer1897]

Another very informative video, thank you. 😊 What is the reason for clipping the HMS carabiner and belay plate into the rope loop and not the belay loop?

[@risesummit5170]

The rope is dynamic, belay loop isn't

[@nikolakolaric87]

The reason is that in case of second falling, weight of climber would go on to your hips and legs if you are belaying from b.loop. If you belay from rope loop that weight of second climber will go directly to the anchor

[@beatagraczer1897]

@@nikolakolaric87 Thank you, this makes so much sense!

[@dmmclimbing81]

Hi, Alice here! As Nikola has mentioned, by using the rope loop, the rope system has more dynamism in at, as well as the load of the second bypassing the climber to the anchor, rather than loading the climber first, which makes it much comfier and safer for the belayer if the second weights the system. If the second does fall and you are belaying with the belay loop (not the rope loop), then the harness is pulled in both directions (towards the anchor and the climber), putting enormous strain on the belay loop. As well as this, if you ever need to escape the system, it is easier to begin this process if the second is not clipped directly to your harness.

[@beatagraczer1897]

@@dmmclimbing81 Hi Alice! Thank you very much for explaining it. 😊

[@marcchrys]

Very clear instructional video. Though I must say when I first started climbing in 1980, I never used 3 belay anchors...we generally were fine with one (!)...I recall a gripping experience on Cemetery Gates when my friend fell off when seconding, and I was 150ft up, crouched down very low on a tiny ledge, trying to ensure the rope I had wrapped over a small projecting rock didn't roll off...luckily it held!

[@grimlund]

Me and a friend of mine were in Norway the last summer climbing multipitch. I mostly did 2 belay anchors if I recall right. I think two really good pieces of gear is enough and its saving a bit of time to. And I dont use screw carabiners on the anchor points. I think Its overkill but thats just me.

[@pauldalhaimer4372]

Would it be possible to have a list of all the equipment in these "Learning to Trad Climb" videos?

[@iluvatar4244]

Really enjoy the way you teach. Fabulous anchor setting. Even tho in Germany we belay a little different from the top. Tried your way as well, can't start liking it tbh. But solid vid overall

[@nigelmtb]

How is it different, if that's not a question with a crazy long answer?

[@trockstar303]

Great video, thank you. Your voice sounds like Sam from Foyles War!

[@mikaelwerner1]

Brilliant!

[@hoppy1970]

Shadow HMS for 3 x clove hitch skinny ropes, Boa HMS for 10mm rope.

[@dmmclimbing81]

Hey - Alice here. The Shadow HMS is safe to use with 3 clove hitches as long as the rope is 9.5mm or below. If you are using a thick rope, the best thing to do is to add another locking carabiner to your harness and pop the additional clove hitches on that to save too much rope in any carabiner :)

[@hoppy1970]

@@dmmclimbing81 Hi Alice. 6 strands of 10mm is 3mm wider than 6 strands of 9.5mm. The Boa is 6mm wider than the Shadow. Granted that does not necessarily mean an extra 6mm of room but 3 x10mm clove hitches fit fine on a Boa.

[@AnonymousOtters]

@@hoppy1970 Practically no one climbs on 10mm ropes anymore

[@hoppy1970]

@@AnonymousOtters Can you provide the data for UK climbers' preferred rope diameter please?

[@fleaz4984]

@@AnonymousOttersmaybe not in the UK but plenty of climbers in the states do. Our deserts are harsh on gear

[@Salmontemaki]

At the very end when she belays the hypothetical follower, seems like the atc is only attached to her bight and not her belay loop… is this good practice?

[@nigelmtb]

Yes it is but it's optional. The idea is that if the climber falls, the rope loop and the anchor takes all the weight, with none of it transferred to you directly. Entirely your choice.

[@mattclinton5351]

This instructor is excellent. Does she have a channel?

[@edwinxu6291]

I learnt everything in the Italian way and it is so different. One quick question: I just wonder while belaying the second, should it be considered a better way if we use the guide mode of the reverso?

[@michaelkork6773]

That way is assisted braking which I would argue is more inherently better. Also, when belaying from the top with a reverso in quite mode you can use a belay method that keeps a hand always on the brake strand, much safer than what she did

[@파란하늘-s1r]

Great ,learning belay...

[@logiconabstractions6596]

Is it a UK thing to be making the cloves hitches with the rope on your own HMS, as opposed to the cloves being on the carabiner that is on each of the 3 pieces? The way I've always been doing it (north america) is to clove onto each piece, as opposed to myself. Seems roughly equivalent.

[@ReubenStrickett]

It just allows you to adjust and equalise the anchor more easily from where you want to belay, rather than adjusting at each of the gear. Makes things easier especially if the gear is out of arm’s reach from the belay.

[@sspogTube]

This is an 'out of reach' approach all adjustment can be done when you are away from you anchors, its typical in UK trad for anchors to be spread out. I'm not an instructor but I guess this is a really good first bealy to build as it will work in many situations.

[@dmmclimbing81]

Hi - Alice here! The 2 replies above are correct! We use the clove hitch on our harness to allow us to safely adjust the tightness for our anchor points without having to return to the gear, something we always want to be able to do when our anchor is out of reach (the belayer cannot reach the gear from where they intend to belay). If you are using the rope to attach to more than 1 anchor point each (eg. a 3 point anchor with a single rope), we need to put at least 2 of the clove hitches on our harness to allow us to clip the next piece of gear. If we are climbing with double ropes, and have 2 good pieces of gear within reach of where we intend to belay, it is common practice to clove hitch one rope directly into the 1st piece of gear and one into the other, as you describe in your comment. Basically, it all depends on where the gear is, where you want to belay from, and how many ropes you are using to climb with! Hope that helps :)

[@logiconabstractions6596]

@@dmmclimbing81 Interesting, learning things everyday. I don't remember too many belays where gear was all that far - but then maybe if I had know this approach it would have made live easier in some instance. I'll probably try it out next time I'm out, always nice to have more arrows in your quiver.

[@highdesertbiker]

Basically you gotta put the right gear in the right crack

[@paulhyland7637]

great set of vids as always, just one comment though, at the beginning you stated you are going to create a 3 point anchor, when at that point, if it was your first time there, you may have found that a 2 point anchor worked.

[@samshorto5433]

Why would you create a two point anchor when you can create a three?

[@paulhyland7637]

@@samshorto5433 coz if two is good why complicate things!

[@kd5nrh]

1:48 "number...blue" Must be some special Welsh numbers. I wonder how quickly their kids learn to count to orange.

[@mensongg]

Rastafari! 🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲 Here mi now. Here mi now. Jaaaaaaaah!

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

If the leader were to fall off the ledge while backing up and adjusting the clove before it was tightened, wouldn't the loose clove hitch most likely fail to prevent the fall?

[@logiconabstractions6596]

Nice to properly aim instructions to beginners, but also mention other options when relevant (e.g. 2 pieces of gear might do, non-locking carabiners can be fine too, etc). Sometimes we get a bit dogmatic about these during instructions I feel like - and then you end up with lots of climbers thinking it's a cardinal sin to build a 2 piece anchor. I really do see value in beginner instruction that provide safe "default" mode of operations (e.g. 3 pieces, screwgates), but also mention judgment calls & implications.

[@dmmclimbing81]

Hey - Alice here. Thanks for your comment and you're correct, 2 pieces of gear can be enough for a belay. We cover using 2 pieces in later videos, and mention that it is up to the climber to make sure that they are happy with their belay and that is sufficient to keep themselves and their second safe.

[@kiefekiefe9542]

An audio could be muchhh louder. Thanks

[@johnrhodes3350]

Turn your volume up then 🤦

[@hotbeefo]

No audio?

[@user-ky4jp8jf2p]

Overcammed holds just fine, but yes it can get stuck and that yellow placement is not def not ideal...

[@grimlund]

And you dont want to leave cams because they are stuck. They are pretty expensive.

[@jonchase7752]

I know the gear works but I always get so stressed putting my life in the hands of a small piece of metal

[@WeiYuanTzeng]

I don't like the setup for Belaying from the anchor. Correct me if I am wrong. You are the part of the system, but you will have hard time getting out of system when something happen or need to do self rescue.

[@risesummit5170]

Wei, you are able to escape the system here, with the use of a sling. Best book yourself onto a rope rescue course.

[@WeiYuanTzeng]

@@risesummit5170 I took a self rescue class with an IFMGA instructor. My question is from the video, she is locked into the master point to her rope tie-in loop and the ATC is also on the same rope. When the ATC is loaded, how can she get out of it without untie the figure 8?

[@keiranw1101]

@@WeiYuanTzeng kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKSUgIVqh96WnLc Hey mate. Check out this series by JB Mountain Skills. Answers all of your questions and more. They often do things differently in the UK than other countries, but all safe and sound.

[@alecbaker1126]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bavPcp2XlsyFfJY

[@oscarpalm8142]

Correct! You should always use a belay device that has guide mode at the top of the anchor.

[@steventhaw3765]

For the most Efficient, Strongest,, and SAFEST anchor, Add clove hitches to the anchor points and the master point instead of an over hand knot!!!

[@thekaydonsouth]

Guy at the bar: "wassup pretty baby, can i get your number?" Girl: "yup! ...Blue."

[@oscarpalm8142]

It's a good guide. But I don't like how you are teaching them to use that type of belay device to the top of the anchor. You should always use a belay device with guide mode on it. so if a climber takes a fall, it's not attached so close to you and there is no risk for injury. Otherwise good video

[@simonperrett4602]

If you’ve built your belay with the rope guide mode would be awkward to use

[@simonperrett4602]

Also if you’re on a small belay ledge guide mode would also be a bit of a pain!

[@matsr_2279]

There are risks with guide mode belaying that require more thought such as lowering and cross loading with multiple seconds, this use of the belay device with the rope is excellent for beginners as an out-of-reach belay setup with belay device on rope loop can be used in any senario whereas guide mode requires more thought and care. It also translates nicely from gym climbing as shown in the video.

[@oscarpalm8142]

@@matsr_2279 that was one of the good things I saw that it's a good way if a person needs to be lowered 👍👍

[@dmmclimbing81]

Hi Oscar, Alice here. It looks like your query has been sorted in the comments below, and I have answered a similar question above if you wanted to take a look at the answer there too. As a general answer though, there are so many different scenarios that we are faced with when we are trad climbing, and different techniques are the right ones to use at different times; it all comes down to the climbers knowledge, judgement and the gear that they are using. I hope this helps!