DMS and Josh Valour React To Audiophile Snake Oil!

[@Gus_Diaz_83]

Having MQA on this was perfect! I laughed out loud... (I was waiting for it!!!) Love this!

[@GinsuSher]

I can't believe you guys didn't mention quantum shield stickers. Those mofo also have amazing markups.

[@JoshuaValour]

didn't know that was a thing lol

[@ZephonWing]

Was waiting to see the stickers, too!

[@taidee]

I don't want a used stone, I want that new stone smell 🤣

[@jirihorsky9600]

I thought to myself "how can a stone be used", then I shivered and banished that entire string of thoughts from my mind.

[@Vantavimeow]

the entire string eh? 😉

[@2ridiculous41]

@@Vantavimeow string theory.

[@chungang7037]

And here I thought they were going to be brave enough to talk about DACs, cables, and burn in...

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

Probably because they have a eduction unlike you

[@FSniffer]

Same

[@Shyvorix]

Funny since burn in is 100% snake oil, as well as cables, but DACs are more complicated since there are many ways to measure them and tell which is better. Too bad 99.999% of people won't be able to tell between two sets of high quality DACs with various metrics lmao (unless they're tube amps but that's an exception.) More snake oil shit tbh.

[@AndresGarcia-hu8ij]

The irony of having DMS, the guy who works (or worked?) for the company selling ~$7000 headphone cables, $1000 "superconductor" USB cables, $8000 speaker cables, and ~$4000 RCA cables, be the one roasting "snake oil" products is absolutely not lost on me. Edit: I learned he no longer works for that company. Still feel they deserved a shout-out.

[@robertkirkpatrick1826]

there is a difference between snake oil and overpriced luxury items lol....ive heard. I wouldnt know.

[@Nordraw]

Exactly right, both of these guys push over priced snake oil products 24/7.

[@chungang7037]

But cables do make a difference! not. 😆

[@jimfarrell4635]

​@@chungang7037Wash your mouth out with soap! My brand new fake OCC SKW speaker cables have made my mids butterier than ever and I feel the need to just stare at their gloriousness every hour. But seriously they are cheap, beautifully made, gorgeous to look at and sound just as good as any other cable, so what's not to like.

[@Xbox360mIRC]

@@robertkirkpatrick1826 If the $7000 cables mentioned a bunch of meaningless specs like diamond plating and world class blah blah blah its not far off and I think still a form of snake oil but less significant than other examples. Your probably better off buying a few snake oil things in this video than all those listed items in terms of raw money wasted. They likely have barely any resell value compared to what the scam artist company sells them for.

[@AssafMuller]

Time for a chaotic neutral comment… “Now do Abyss cables.” Sorry DMS…

[@chungang7037]

Is Abyss lawful evil then?

[@cunawarit]

I absolutely love these kinds of products! 😊 They’re fascinating because, no matter how often you point out to hardcore audiophiles that their beloved “snake oil” is pure mysticism, they still enthusiastically drop hundreds of thousands of dollars on gear that doesn’t actually improve anything. My favorite argument is always, “But if you can hear it, is it really placebo?” To which I say-yes, YES! That’s exactly what placebo is by definition: perceiving an improvement where none objectively exists. And honestly? That’s part of the charm.

[@hanfpeter4190]

Can’t believe those extremely expensive audio cables weren’t in this vid. Forgot their name but they were literally *$50.000+* it’s absolutely insane

[@Kevin-jp4rb]

How about you guys test GR Research speaker cables? Check if that's snake oil

[@FitLabb]

Had no idea there were so many snake oil salesmen in the audiophile hobby…? Thankfully it’s still nowhere near as widespread or bad as what I see in the fitness industry.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

Or the enthusiast car industry

[@TheEchelon]

Because you are a fitness guy. If you go into the rabbit hole of audio snake oil it is probably the worst offender of any hobby.

[@FitLabb]

@@TheEchelon Sadly I think every industry has its fair share of snake oil salesmen and scammers who are more than happy to prey on the ocean of beginners who don’t know any better, and who are much more likely to believe in & buy the nonsense they’re pushing.

[@hypnoz7871]

Fitness/diet industry is very bad indeed. But bro... "audiophile" industry is the greatest of all. Especially in the "magical" dac/amp category that prey on people confirmation bias.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

@@hypnoz7871 what do you mean by "magical". I hope you have a electronics degree.

[@TheGreatMrBill]

You should have showed some of those "audiophile fuses" that can cost a couple hundred, lol

[@irondome7334]

Paging Synergistic Research lol.

[@TheRealAudioDidact]

@@irondome7334 I'll vouch for SR Purple. I have them throughout my system and they tighten up the sound.

[@SpyderTracks]

Im on a reputable high end audio forum, theyre actually spending thousands of pounds on audio grade fibre cables (which i never knew was a thing) amd saying how much better it sounds. There are so many people out there who dont understand that analogue signals arent carried over fiber, and even weirder, they dont understand that noise is electrical and therefor cannot be carried by fiber anyway. But you try to educate them and they call you an idiot.

[@soulfulfool]

I upgraded cable for every headphone I own but never went over 250$ guess I am snake oil believer lol but my brain hear the difference just a little bit rest is just better looks and feel

[@SpyderTracks]

@soulfulfool that's analogue though, completely different to digital. Analogue makes a huge difference as different wire metals lead to different resistance and impedence. I have high quality interconnects and custom headphone cables too. Digital doesn't work in the same way though

[@MXF5700]

I love seeing you guys together in videos. Isn't it about time you guys did another tier-list for headphones/headsets? I think there are many newer products that you guys could put on the board that we would like to see.

[@adotopp1865]

The thing with audio you shouldn't buy with your eyes and especially online. Just listen and buy what you like the sound of.

[@aleksjenner677]

The irony of talking about snake oil with a bottle of "smart" water on the desk

[@JoshuaValour]

🧠 it’s clearly working for him lol

[@DMS3TV]

I like to keep track of the TDS of my water 😅not for any big reason other than that I'm a nerd and its fun.

[@TheVeganVicar]

Finally discovered DMS’s real name. 🎉

[@Alepap.]

Make a vid on the more subtle snake oil, like hi res or sources improving soundstage, now that's a real challenge.

[@ThrakazogZ]

Brilliant Pebbles - Selling ocean front property in Arizona, one small baggy at a time.

[@HerecomestheCalavera]

From my front porch you can see the sea.

[@Themanthatisi]

The power of placebo is why snake oil works for some

[@Zeinzu2]

MOOOORE of these please. I could watch this all day long.

[@adamcanterbury]

Loved this content...a break from the norm, and humanizes you to be much more relatable....great job it was fun to watch 😂

[@Glenn056]

Ironic, because DMS works for Abyss that sell $4000 superconductor headphone cables.

[@Thund3rstone]

I first thought this would escalate into a cable discussion, but I am baffled how much obvious superstition rip offs exist.

[@DMS3TV]

I left abyss over a year ago

[@philcibley1804]

You left out the $1500 power cables.

[@arthurwatts1680]

Seeing the two of you together is guaranteed to send sharur to a very dark place ;)

[@robertkirkpatrick1826]

is sharur that guy who hates everyone?

[@arthurwatts1680]

@@robertkirkpatrick1826 bingo. That said, he has a serious boner for Josh and DMS.

[@nickpelayo3172]

​@@robertkirkpatrick1826yes

[@DMS3TV]

@@robertkirkpatrick1826ever since he was banned from my patreon chat he’s been on a crusade lol. Fanboy turned villain.

[@jimfarrell4635]

That guy really has a massive chip on his shoulder. Or French Fry for you colonial types. Is that phrase even a thing in the USA?

[@budsmoker4201120]

The stone works i swear 😂😂😂😂😂

[@AliArghavan]

No Audioquest? I'm disappointed

[@drdelewded]

Audioquest is just Monster Cable 2.0

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

content creation is a business, and in business, it's better to make influential friends than influential enemies

[@mileninasakura]

Actually, i think i might be quite ignorant on this one - MQA. I understand the controversy and the many reasons why i should be against it. But in my experience, i use Tidal with Master quality on my phone with IEMs. Whenever i search for albums, the albums that are "Master" quality instead of "Hifi" quality pretty much always feel more pleasant...? Is there any merit for that? I always assumed FLAC as the best thing ever as it being lossless and found the idea of "folding" the quality in less of space for better quality quite suspicious. Yet, somehow, the albums on Master quality always feel a bit "more"? I try to believe my ears, but considering the controversy, im starting to doubt em and everybody else. Could my ears be right and everybody wrong, or my ears wrong and everybody right... or neither?

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

The ones that are mastered by hand in the Tidal Masters series are effectively remixed versions of the albums. They like an unofficial remastering. Thats the reason you can't ever take those off Master playback, because they entirely different recordings.

[@SkyZippr]

Wait.... You guys didn't mention those cap things you put into the unused RCA connectors to reduce noise.... Does this mean they work????

[@johnwatrous3058]

I saw a KZbinr trying to tell me that a $1,500 cord for an amp be an improvement in sound

[@mttrashcan-bg1ro]

I think it's a good rule to just assume anything that sounds like BS probably is. The only thing that could be considered snake oil that I believe works is cables, since better quality cables would in theory be like when you spend more for anything else, however diminishing returns is definitely a thing. Cable risers, stones, blessings, they're 100% BS in my books based on the fact the cables are shielded from EMI, more expensive cables should be better shielded, meaning cable risers do nothing. I've heard people say better DACs and Amplifiers don't make a different, but component quality I think can in the right circumstances.

[@kshitijk14]

As an electronics engineering student, damm people are going really nuts on these snake oils lol

[@turbogg7213]

“A$$hole Loot-o Cable.” Must be an inside joke.

[@datdudeinred]

Josh almost thought about it 😂 0:30 Jay's audio lab guy watching this & saying imma gonna try all of these 😂

[@DigbyOdel-et3xx]

The notable saying is," A fool and his money are soon parted."

[@rainier939]

Audiophile be buying $1000 stones to improve their system in a untreated room with tile flooring.

[@shanerorko8076]

This stuff is for sale, but does it actually sell?

[@WildfireX]

I want to see you guys do some more tier lists together. Like best headphones under $1000, or best DAC/AMP combos under $1000, or an update to best gaming audio gear whether it be headphones, dacs etc.

[@facepwnagewtf]

Listen guys I'm just saying, knowing when the Nazi's are going to break rank sounds like it would be immensely helpful when integrated into my audio setup. I think the Teleporter guy is onto something.

[@CosmicPotato]

To y'all screaming ABYSS, I thought it was common knowledge DMS doesn't work there anymore... Also, it's not like he was their lead engineer or something. From my understanding, he was mostly there to help with video production and stuff. He wasn't helping peddle $3k cables lol Maybe DMS or Josh can correct me if I am misremembering, but pretty sure DMS has said before that cables don't make a very large audible difference. And that most cables are fine, the main issue is when you get bad cables that introduce interference. But you can get regular cables that don't cost thousands or even hundreds of dollars that will sound just fine. Basically anything these pure platinum diamond encrusted cables blessed by the Pope may offer in "better" sound would be so miniscule that it's beyond the point of human hearing lol

[@AFreezer]

Bro you can get cables that cost $10 that will sound just fine. It doesn't make a lick of difference. Unless, as you mentioned, it introduces interference. But, that's a whole different ball game to "making a difference". At that point, it's just broken and you should return it.

[@grandadgamer8390]

I have solid gold speaker supports, forged and fabricated by special needs children (wearing gloves of course) so no human adult bias has seeped into the frame. The isolation is incredible. Even turned off, you can't hear the hum😅

[@vrpanda]

Well, these snake oils are pretty obvious that almost nobody use them. I would like to see the snake oils that are more commonly use.

[@ncf1]

I disagree with you guys, I think some of the stuff came from the Roswell crash in '47 and are, simply, incredible bargains.

[@ClintAvila]

Finally.. Joshua and DMS getting "oily" together! Dreams do come true 😂😂😜

[@pmAdministrator]

Thank you for the video. Honestly, you guys should do 6 hour long livestreams talking about audio stuff. That would be insane!

[@martyn_g]

Snake oil- 1) expensive interconnects and speaker cable 2) Audiophile Power cables 3) XLR on anything outside a recording studio If you use the phrase “night and day difference” on any of the above, you are on crack😂

[@philcibley1804]

I disagree on the XLR comment. Balanced circuits can have less hum.

[@mohameds9217]

Joshua, i am Looking forward for a wireless earbuds tier list or top 5 video.

[@cmdalbem]

So... what is MQA?

[@ShaneCutting]

My man is strapping meth to his input cables 🤣🤣🤣

[@twraia]

I imagine Saul Goodman is behind all of these products

[@supernehc]

Don't really like this format, because half of the time we have no idea what you guys are looking at.

[@scrunts666]

For those who remember, Mpingo.

[@tedthomas9809]

My tin foil hat prevents me from being able to benefit from MQA and all those other wonderful things. An end thing I guess.

[@vext01]

How about the ifi lan isilencer?

[@guimz_audio]

Really happy you guys talked about MQA hahaha !! Props 💯

[@pc750-V4]

Wait... That hallograph twisty wood thing on a pole said 'endorsed by engineer Steve Hoffman' wtf I always thought he was a respected engineer... But if he endorses that kind of crap..

[@jimfarrell4635]

Well he was standing beside it giving a thumbs up, but maybe someone had just said " Wow, Steve, isn't this a giant steaming pile of crap!"

[@Donsploitation]

Still amazes me how many brands use MQA as a selling point. Should be a red flag instead.

[@mopnem]

Yeah I mean.. All it takes is for one of the influencers to say they like it & a god amount of people laughing at it in the comment section will buy

[@YourfriendNextDoor2]

You can buy gold battery paste

[@HerecomestheCalavera]

Is there really someone out there paying 11k for a LAN cable

[@IonTrone]

it would help if we could see what you two are looking at on your laptop screens :)

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

Headphones People are at a third place compared to the great houses of Home Theater and 2ch Stereo. i wonder if it's the Headphones People who take the best of both worlds, ignoring the extremes? i really do wonder

[@darylccc]

Funniest thing alright is that all of these things won't actually make anything worse, except MQA....

[@Nordi1_0745]

That smile!😂08:38

[@nickcabrera3982]

My favorite are the brilliant pebbles. Glad you covered them. They keep popping up on audio and guitar forums over the years and I always get a good laugh.

[@syanhc]

This was hilarious!

[@sinistergrin7053]

Almost all audiophile equipment is snake oil.

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

don't you feel even a little uncertain about making a statement so broad? what defines audiophile equipment and what's the extent of your experience with it

[@mvv1408]

@@WeeWeeJumbo When it looks like it should be sold in a jewellery store rather than a HiFi shop, it's snake oil, or at least partly.

[@ntraxmartin]

Even Ifi have those lan cables....well...hehe

[@CalebA]

I thought this was going to be a video about cables.

[@rahliE777]

All the magic rocks look like the same thing ppl use for witchcraft.. Prolly sending you a curse

[@turbomustang84]

The worst is a $20,000 rack that required 200 hours of burn in

[@irondome7334]

Synergistic Research should have been included. The owner (Dan?) is a master scam artist.

[@HiFiInsider]

the earth is flat.... I remember lots of people asking for MQA certified DACs so their marketing worked.

[@upamanyughosh3849]

Rather ironic having DMS here debunking snakeoil provided he works for Abyss who shills multi-kilobuck cables lol. Love the guy's reviews though.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

He no longer works for them. In fact, DMS inadvertently exposed aybss's poor practices with the pad and measurement controversies.

[@JoshuaValour]

😢 abyss headphones are amazing though. JPS labs cables are another story.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

​@@JoshuaValourso DMS just lied to you about what happened while he worked there? He made a pad for them. It was orginally called a dms mod, then then they lied and said they had no help working on it. Later they said very derogatory things about anyone that does measurements of their products including with the new pads. They're objectively unawesome.

[@jpined14]

The Diana series sound pretty bad. Both the V2 and Phi were puny sounding but they sure look good.

[@Glenn056]

Not to mention Joshua Valour himself is sometimes full of shit too, but still I enjoy both their contents on occasion.

[@IkanGelamaKuning]

11k for a short LAN cable. Hahaha

[@johnenglishIII]

I guess white rich old guys are entitled to believe in their own kind of astrology too.

[@NovaRay]

Rub some medicinal chinese essential oil to reduce bass bloat in your headgear for only the price of $300 per 10ml bottle

[@TechnoGuy11]

The biggest snake oil is people thinking there is burn-in with their electronics like daps, dacs, and solid-state amps. If you believe that you have no clue how electronics work.

[@jimfarrell4635]

Well it's not really snake oil in that it's free to burn in your own products and either you think it works or you don't. Except for speakers I personally don't think it does. I have heard of companies charging extra to burn in cables, but it's thankfully not common.

[@TechnoGuy11]

@@jimfarrell4635 Of course it doesn't, and while I don't believe in speaker burn-in either at least you can make some kind of argument on that since it's a mechanical moving object, though it's been disproven a few times from measurements before and after burn-in and any change that happened would have been inaudible.

[@bobe2933]

the sad thing is that individuals actually spend money on this crap. It is mind boggling. Just goes to show how easy it is to do just about any type of business nowadays!

[@vladimirharant3128]

What is actually mind-boggling is the level of arrogance & willful ignorance by people who always bash things without any personal hands-on experience.

[@jafizzle95]

I wonder how patrick82 is doing these days.

[@Nekomancer69]

power cleaner items like a fancy plug or adaptors.

[@nerdschleife]

two kinds of people 8:20

[@Bird.droppings]

This was a fun video and it's always a joy to see two bros enjoying each other's company. See you in the next video, thank you!

[@xOogieBoogie3x]

Anything from Synergistic Research is mind melting.

[@The_Privateer]

But... this is the fuel that powers the 'audiophile' community.

[@TC-dg5pm]

You guys talked about rocks. Talk about cables.

[@Cherr1]

Guys--explaining why something can't work is not the same as proving it doesn't work. You can't really know if something enhances the sound of your system except by listening to it. And even then, it's a personal thing: it all depends on what you value in your sound. If you are primarily interested in the soundstage or the frequency extension, you might not notice or care that a product improves musical flow or timing. In the end, the only thing that matters here is whether someone hears a benefit from a product and values that benefit enough to pay the cost of the product. Whether it should or shouldn't work according to a text book is immaterial.

[@chungang7037]

I need some of whatever you are having

[@drdelewded]

Ahh the snakeoil flows deeply in this one..

[@johnforguites4800]

Gee, you didn't even mention Monster Cable! :-) Its not in same league with these crazy "products"

[@drdelewded]

Monster cable is cheap compared to the cables being shunted out now.. They may have started the snake oil bubbing, but theyve been left in the dust

[@Xbox360mIRC]

DMS works or worked for Abyss which sells cables worth more than $5000 and one worth $11k and dozens worth above $1000.

[@Hoserzzz]

Why does DMS look like the guy I used to buy acid from rn

[@bencausey]

I remember way back when the Shakti Hallograph was seriously reviewed in high end publications. No joke.

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

a name i'd never heard, i visited their site, Chrome won't even let me in because it's not secure. RED FLAG. looked elsewhere, they sell audiophile rocks, well ok then. plus whateverTF the Hallograph is supposed to be (a diffuser? LOL) thanks for all this mirthless laughter, i thrive on cynicism

[@takuan650]

Is there anything You guys like about DT700 Pro X Beyer Dynamic headphones? I would have rather thrown my coins into our village pond and listen to a clean splash.

[@damnbrosky]

On AliExpress IEM cable can cost up to 10.000 Euro, this is not joke today record 7.600 euros

[@CombatBanana]

ABYSS CABLES, how about that DMS

[@DMS3TV]

I left there over a year ago

[@CombatBanana]

@@DMS3TV oh neet, what I don't get is why they had to do that after making great headphones.

[@jpined14]

@@CombatBananaJPS Labs came first and they claim their headphones are the result of their accrued knowledge. Never heard the 1266 but the Diana suck and also I had JPS loom and the recommended XI Stack.

[@AndresGarcia-hu8ij]

@@DMS3TV They totally deserved a shout-out, though!

[@kellycny65]

Thank God for finishing with MQA. Unlike the other products you listed, thousands have bought into that bullshit, including every Tidal subscriber.

[@Gus_Diaz_83]

And Tidal itself LOL

[@mopnem]

MQA isn’t exactly snake oil. It’s just another offering. You should be using your own files or Qobuz at any rate. Don’t necessarily dislike Tidal but people paying extra for master then complaining about MQA is ironic to be sure.

[@kellycny65]

@@mopnem It's absolute snake oil. There's no need to pay for or be forced to use a device that is MQA compatible especially when GoldenSound's evaluation showed MQA isn't really even true lossless. There's nothing ironic about streaming lossless and complaining about MQA. I use Qobuz, which gets to lossless and even master quality without MQA unless there is no other existing file than the MQA version.

[@mopnem]

@@kellycny65 Qobuz doesn’t have master, Tidal does & Tidal is an MQA propagator, which was my ironic point. I’ve even found cables to make a difference so I define snake oil as complete bs but a lot of things aren’t quite that. It’s just that vocal people who’ve never used much gear seem to know everything lol like dacs all being the same..um no

[@kellycny65]

@@mopnem I don't recall ever typing that all DACs sound the same, so nice try at painting me with that brush. Hope your straw men don't burn in this heat.

[@zersockpuppet]

So 50% scammers, 50% genuinely mentally unwell people

[@tauhidirfani271]

those sixth element "audiophile" stickers that are supposedly will clean the signals in your audio chain. there are people here that swear by them. even calling them sticker mods....🤣

[@Temperature980]

If you wore a mask you believe in snake oil. 😂

[@adotopp1865]

Well yes there are con men we know this.

[@Leon-lg7zm]

Joshua please shave your neck hair!

[@Tyfuzzle]

oily bois

[@TheMrZombified]

The stones sounds best with stoner rock.

[@holdincourt]

MQA 😂😂😂