Vegan DnD Player DEMANDS DM Change His Game World | r/rpghorrorstories

[@alarkhar]

About the vegan player - I wonder if she realizes that, being humanoid cats, Tabaxi are dedicate carnivores, as in "they can NOT get any nourishment from plants". Seriously, has she never heard of the taurin conundrum? (for those who don't know, taurin is a hormone essential to cat health, that can only be found in animal protein. In the past, vegan cat owners have tried feeding them with vegan substitutes, and the end result was always the same: a dead cat). Nature is NOT a fair mistress, and "no harm to any animals" in a fantasy setting, will often result in the characters getting eaten. If she wants to play a vegan character, more power to her - but she can't impose her point of view on others!

[@paulman34340]

@@fabriziopedani5315 To fight animal cruelty! We're going to INVOKE animal Cruelty! Me: ....WHAT? Veganism like all things doesn't make people terrible! People make themselves terrible! It's just an excuse to excuse their shitty behavior! And yes I hope those cats are able to get ACTUAL food (Being a cat owner, I can't understand idiots attempts to fight nature, yet claim to be it's champion when their doing shit like that to poor animals! Where a Poison Ivy to outcrazy and slaughter these's posers!)

[@travisbishop782]

Not just tabaxi. You have gnolls, orcs, lizardmen, and dragonborn.

[@timitaliani3611]

I know a guy that has to feed his cat a vegan diet because it gets sick from eating meat but this is a very rare illness.

[@MisterNightfish]

"We taught this lion to eat tofu" - Futurama

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

@@fabriziopedani5315 well you know what they say, human meat is also meat

[@Mgauge]

"Cruelty free world" seems like an odd request in a game where players commonly shank at least one bandit to death before lunch.

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

The vegan just means to animals. Or any race that looks like an animal. You could probably brutally murder a human thru prolonged torture and the vegan would join in on the fun.

[@NopeNaw]

Story 2: Definitely not a reasonable request. There really is no point in not wanting to make the vegan player uncomfortable, because she seems like the kind of person that will FIND something to be uncomfortable with. Sending someone a list of demands is the height of arrogance. Best advice would be to tell her to go pound sand.

[@thekaiser3815]

This does seem to be a common train among vegans though, not all but more then a few.

[@NopeNaw]

@@thekaiser3815 Oh definitely. I've had the unfortunate displeasure of encountering such a vegan myself. So my personal experience with proclaimed vegans is 1:1 completely in line with the awful image they've given themselves.

[@thekaiser3815]

@@NopeNaw Vegans believe they can violate natural law. Arrogance.

[@GuardsmanKleeves]

“Cruelty Free World” thus, “No heroes needed” signs appear overnight

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

Exactly. I think it was the goal for this "player" the whole time. To simply force their views and desires on everyone.

[@Juju2927]

​@@davidtherwhanger6795 Vegan radicalism 101

[@Spartan135]

there are people on this planet who are treating being vegan like a religion that needs to be forced upon every meat eater. what arrogance...

[@jakethegreatest473]

​@@Juju2927vegan: dietary feminazi 😅

[@theratking013]

Being a Vegan is not personality trait and not excuse to demand things of others. Some Vegans behave like fanatical Cultists and not like normal People that prefer eating green over red and let others in peace of what they eat...

[@Kepora1]

*ALL vegans ARE fanatical cultists

[@GarkKahn]

Our rights end where the person beside us' begin after all

[@seanodonnell7169]

let others in peace of WHO they eat, not what, who

[@informitas0117]

They are free to demand whatever they like and others are free to not hangout with them. Simple as that.

[@NuclearCharm]

*begins writing a plot hook of fanatical druids that want to enforce veganism on every living creature* (I mean, Goodberry is a thing that states that when eaten, it provides all the nutrition a creature needs) EDIT: NOTE: I'm not saying Vegan or Veganism is evil, heck I hope that if I do make this plot hook that it'll turn out with a neutral ending where the druids turn down the fanaticism and people can choose to sustain off of Goodberry if they choose to

[@AtelierGod]

So if the vegan got her way a Druid could wild shape into a beast and effectively be immortal?

[@AuntLoopy123]

Well, there's still old age, disease, and natural disaster.

[@AtelierGod]

@@AuntLoopy123 firstly it’s a Druid eventually their aging slows down significantly but that likely wouldn’t come up in a campaign, disease and natural disasters could be argued to be cruel from this player since the DM is in charge.

[@Ancyker]

Plot twist: The problem player wasn't really a vegan but *was* a Druid and this was the plan all along.

[@ChaosCounseling]

There’s a thought lol

[@NopeNaw]

Vegan playing a druid refuses to wild shape because it'd be cultural appropriation. "My fur is not a costume!" /s

[@DefectiveDictionary777]

Addition to the suggestion of confronting the possible stalker: whether you bring a group of friends to talk to him or you do it over a phone call, check if your state/country is single-party consent for recording conversations. If it is, get the whole conversation's audio recorded on your phone. If not, only talk to the person over text or email, then make sure to save and backup all of it.

[@AuntLoopy123]

Yes! Gather as much evidence as you can.

[@cheyennetrumbos]

Honestly, even if it's only single- party consent, record anyway. It just can't be used for legal proceedings, but it may make them back off

[@maneatingcheeze]

Even in 2 party consent states you can use a single party consent recording with the university to get a campus restraining order (or whatever they call it). Universities do not need to adhere to court standards of evidence when it comes to student conduct. Also just tell him you are recording the conversation at the start if you are concerned about needing to take legal action. Most of these creeps do not think they are in the wrong, will acknowledge the recording, and go off anyway.

[@RiveroftheWither]

That first story sounds like a case of a chronic character builder, someone who gets excited to play a character... right up until they get an idea for a new character, then all they want to do is play the new one and the next new one... and the next new one. Either they ask the dm to kill the character, suddenly start making dumb choices to get the character killed or simply have them leave for arbitrary reasons. Considering that he was all ready to show op his new character that evening speaks volumes.

[@AuntLoopy123]

Then he's wrong for not SAYING SO. Even if it's not a serial thing, if he just got a brainstorm for THE BEST CHARACTER EVER, and he wants to play that, instead, he needs to SAY SO, BEFORE he annoys everyone. At the beginning of the session, BEFORE the party get their plot hook, "Look, DM, I know I planned out that character and you approved it, but I got a GREAT idea for a differnt character, and I can't get it out of my head. I really want to play the other character, instead. Can I show him to you now? We can just pretend we did the solo session with my background, and start playing right away, if you approve the new character." See? It's a mild delay, not an a-hole move, disrupting everything. If the DM says, "I'll need TIME to review this character. The rest of the party will go in without you, and your new character, AFTER I APPROVE IT, can be a lone adventurer who gets lured into Barovia, as well, and meets up with the party, next session."

[@RiveroftheWither]

@@AuntLoopy123 Did you think I was defending him and criticizing the op? Because I very much wasn't, so not sure why you're going off on me.

[@dragonsontv4412]

I'm getting flashbacks of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim! Nooo!

[@ItamarO93]

I also suffer from this. Its hard to overcome.

[@mtknight5141]

I’m a forever DM - I have dozens of characters I will never play. But if I could, even though I have unlimited backups - I wouldn’t remove my character unless they didn’t fit the game

[@FordPrefict42]

It doesn't sound like the vegan is a good fit for the story. They want the World to conform to them specifically. I have a character, which is a Life Cleric. His background gives him Survival and Nature skills. He has the Chef Feat. When our party is traveling, I have no problem role-playing the creation of vegan recipes. That doesn't mean he is strictly a vegan cook. There isn't time on the road to properly trap and prepare one or more animals for consumption.

[@ailinfergan]

Me, as DM, to the vegan player: Then this game is not for you. I'm sorry.

[@williek08472]

Agreed

[@AuntLoopy123]

Yes. Tell her, "You came into an already established game, expecting it to change for you? That's like going into a Ruth's Chris Steakhouse and demanding that they stop serving meat, butter, or any other animal products. What you should do is found your own vegan 'steak' house and advertise it to other vegans. I'm sure you'll find some. If you can't find a vegan DM, then HIRE a DM, and tell them, 'As a condition of your employment, you will design a cruelty-free world for me and my vegan friends.' I can help you with that, if you want. It's not wrong to be a bad fit for a group. It IS wrong to join an established group and DEMAND that they change to suit you. After all, you wouldn't like it if you had a long-established vegan group, and someone came along and joined you, then immediately tried to force meat down your throats, would you? So, as I said, I'll help you find or start a group that you will enjoy. But this group is just not for you."

[@schwarzerritter5724]

"It is your world, so you can do anything you want with it, and with, "anything you want", I mean, "anything I want."

[@Denkono]

Simple: If you can't enjoy/handle imaginary violence, then don't plan on playing games using imaginary violence. The vegan player needs to separate DnD from the reality of our non-vegan world. However it is quite the spectacle to witness carnists performing mental gymnastics in justifying animal abuse.

[@Michaeljack81sk]

100% Vegan gets the boot

[@Jaeger_Bishop]

Story 3: Two words come to mind, Restraining order! Talk to your friends, your teachers and make sure everyone in your circle knows who this guy is and that he's a damn creep, a stalker and a pathological liar.

[@danielramsey6141]

Yeah! This guy might be an Abuser later on, especially if he has no restraint on himself! So that needs to be nipped in the bud!

[@AuntLoopy123]

Yep! I think she actually has an advantage, because he bothered her teacher, so she has at least one authority figure on her side. Some schools SAY they are against bullying and sexual harassment, but when asked to assist in such a case, they stand back and say, "We can't do anything about it." Unless, of course, the victim strikes back, and then SHE GETS EXPELLED. "Your daughter punched a student. We can't allow that!" "Would that be the same student who has grabbed her, manhandled her, molested her, stalked her, harrassed her, and generally made himself a daily nuisance, whom she reported daily, and you said you couldn't DO anything about it?" "Yes, that's the one." "So, she did something to save herself, and you're angry with HER." "She broke the rules!" "So did he." "Yes, but we can't DO anything about HIM. After all, he's a man who desires a woman, and she should just give him a chance. She refuses to give him a chance! It's all HER fault!" "So, you ADMIT that he broke the rules." "Yes, but that's not at issue here. SHE punched another student, and we can't have that. We need to boot her out of this school, for the safety of all the other students." "You do realize that he is just going to switch to a new target, right?" "Yes, but she'll see what happened here, and give him a chance, so it won't be a problem, as long as she does what she has to do and satisfies him." "Yeah, I'm going to the School Board with this. If I must, I'll go all the way up to the Secretary of Education. And YOU are contributing to the delinquency of a minor and an accessory to sexual harassment and assault. So, kiss your career goodbye. This isn't the 60's, anymore." Don't get me started about my time in high school.

[@Ancyker]

Restraining orders aren't magic. They are a piece of paper telling someone to stay away from you and places you are. Those places are listed. If she got one she'd be handing him her home address. The law offers very little protection in situations like this. Laws are punitive, not preemptive.

[@Jaeger_Bishop]

@@AuntLoopy123 I have never heard of a situation where the school wouldn't do anything about a stalker because he likes a woman....but ok, I think you may have some unresolved trauma or something. I prey you find the help you need.

[@darkwolf860]

​@@Jaeger_Bishopyeah, bullying happens, and bullies have a good record of avoiding consequences, but it's hardly a female only problem

[@Arcticmaster1190]

You know, for the vegan story, I don’t like people who say “it should be no problem for you” when it comes to them giving someone advice on… well, anything. It comes off as pretentious to those who is giving the criticism, or as a backhanded compliment if we’re being generous. I don’t know if it’s generally vegans who have this air of smug around them (I take them by the individual as I do anyone else) but holy hell, I can see why OP’s other players don’t like the problem here. I would hazard a guess that these suggestions for vegan changes aren’t the only issue this player has. Don’t cater to this PC. If the other players are not on board with her ideas and is adamant that they should be the rule of law, it’s better to drop one player than lose a whole group to these demands. (Yes, they are demands- saying “do this or you’re synonymous to a monster of the cause” is… not okay, in lack of a better word.)

[@MisterNightfish]

There's a specific type of vegan that has this "holier than thou" attitude. The problem is that you don't notice the vegans that act like normal people and leave everyone else alone because they, well, leave you alone (I'm sure they exist. They have to, right?). You only notice the obnoxious ones that think just because they are vegan everyone else also needs to be.

[@AmaryInkawult]

@@MisterNightfish made this distinction long ago and labeled them as such. The dogmatic Vegans are the Religious and the normal human being Vegans are the Dietary.

[@AmaryInkawult]

Because damn the dogmatic ones use veganism like a cudgel to abuse people exactly like religious zealot Karens do.

[@spectrelead]

@@AmaryInkawult What you call 'Religious' I term 'Militant Karen'

[@GarkKahn]

@@MisterNightfish they're like furries, there are good furries out there, well i never saw one in my life but i know they do exist... they HAVE to exist somewhere. I refuse to lose hope in this world, if hell exists then it means heaven does as well...

[@thehowlinggamer5784]

Yeah. Peta is a horrible group. They literally go to lure out and straight up petnap animals, regardless if they are abused or not with the mindset that 'owning a pet is cruelty to animals' I wouldn't be surprised if they try this on service animals as well...

[@TigerW0lf]

Not to mention that they own more kill shelters than the actual government, damn hypocrites!😒

[@super_manul1167]

They most likely dod

[@shadenox8164]

They do run shelters with the highest rate of killing.

[@fleacythesheepgirl]

They’re just scammers after one thing MONEY 🤑

[@HannahSiemer]

Someone who is blind and also it I invested in getting a guy dog, I’ve heard from other guy, dog handler‘s, but yes, yes they do. They believe that any service a service dog provides is abuse, just as a part of human stupidity I am going to have to put up with.

[@miles9462]

“That’s sweet” isn’t letting someone down nicely. It’s kind of inviting advances.

[@armata_strigoi_0]

Yeah, not her fault but that was a poor choice of words. You need to be firm but fair. Something like "I appreciate it, but I don't feel the same way."

[@marcusreading3783]

Tell the vegan to either put up with it or go. That is a completely unreason demand. It is basically impossible to run a world that is even remotely realistic or interesting without some level of 'cruelty'. Its one thing if the DM is throwing animals in horrible situations at the party every session, but basic food and the occasional story beat to get them invested is, to put it bluntly, to be expected. Its fine to want a cooldown game where you can just escape it all, but expecting everyone to bend over backwards for you is just unreasonable.

[@Knightshade08]

I have a vegan in one of the groups I play in. He understands it's a bloodthirsty world out there. His PC is vegan but doesn't tell others to be vegan. When we order food, he gets his vegan food, we get our meat filled food and carry on. We have "vegan" snacks only because most chips, popcorn, and booze are vegan friendly.

[@RedScar-Nova]

Any player who would say "It's fantasy, you can do anything you want" is an immediate boot.

[@TresTrefusis]

If the girl that left the story about the boy she is afraid of reads this: absolutely do not ignore it and do not give in to him. Do not be alone with him, get the school involved immediately. You have done all you should have to do person to person and this person could be very dangerous. Behavior like that gets out of hand in a hurry and it could be a sign of something deeper that he needs help with. That help can only be gotten if it's exposed, even if that causes him hardship. As the video commentator said, if this behavior ever extends outside of school you need to get the police involved, file for a restraining order and press charges if it is violated or if he expresses any intention of violence on your person. I hope you stay safe. Be very careful with this. Lighter note, vegan player either falls in line with the campaign or gets the boot. You don't come into an established game and demand a change that wrecks another already established character's story and enjoyment. Time to find a new game.

[@trashshinji7052]

On the last story: op said nothing about session zero scenario specifications and agreements, and I'm left with the impression this may be a case of miscommunication of new DND moral stances (DM) and older DND moral stances (players). I first got this impression when OP was appalled the players would crush dryder eggs. There's nothing remotely weird about destroying that, given how evil driders canonically are. Hobgoblins, also are, usually, a brutal evil culture and portrayed as antagonists. Usually. In classic DND. Maybe the DM didn't made it clear that they'd be playing in a world where monster races can and usually are good or neutral. At least that's my theory.

[@Matt-st1tt]

Was thinking along the same lines man. Like in most campaign's a group of Hobgoblins creating a check point is asking to be robbed then stabbed for good measure if you just went along with it in most campaigns I've ran or been in. I mean I usually like to throw in the bit of mixed morality issues in my games but when I do it I make sure my party is aware or it's as a retrospective to shock the party with their own actions when looked at from a different lens or morality. Like slaying a village you assumed was evil only to be hired to hunt your own party down for your crimes to figure out you were the villains. This story is exactly what your talking about though the senses of morality for the game world of the players and the DM arn't lining up and it seems like this DM is the one that should have ran the campaign for that vegan player in the first story.

[@TresTrefusis]

This is true, however evil is not met with evil. Simply fighting the hobgoblins would be one thing, but crucifying them is a level of cruelty that should be acknowledged as having consequences within the game, such as an alignment shift and if this behavior is something that troubles the DM his concerns are certainly valid if that's not the kind of game he wants to run.

[@Giganotus]

ugh militant vegans are such a pain. Vegans who are like "yeah I personally don't feel right supporting the modern meat industry" are fine. I respect that logic. But the ones who literally make up untrue things (lying about how farming works, claiming humans are obligate herbivores, claiming all other primates are herbivores, etc) and try to force it on others are just. Ugh. Do they genuinely think that's going to convince people? Kick that player out.

[@shadenox8164]

I mean I believe by strictest terms we're frugivores, but even a deer will eat a live bird if it gets a chance. So that doesn't mean much.

[@aquaticcatfey]

@@shadenox8164 "Frugivore" means any herbivore _or omnivore_ that will choose fruit over other edible plants. Examples would be a maned wolf ignoring roots in berry season, or a little kid saying that broccoli is icky but strawberries are the best thing ever.

[@clarehidalgo]

@@aquaticcatfey Fruit Bats are frugivores

[@Giganotus]

@@shadenox8164 Yeah even herbivores will eat meat, but it's false to say we're strict frugivores. We evolved from frugivores, yes, so our diet is best suited to be plant heavy, but we're 100% omnivores. Humans have very firmly planted ourselves as predators. To the point where many wild animals instinctively respond to us as if we're threats, either as if we intend to eat them or as if we were a competing predator. Because that's the niche we've occupied for thousands of years.

[@OmegaZyion]

The only real sane argument I've heard from a vegan is pointing out the methods they use to increase yield such as giving animals steroids to up body mass. Which can be harmful to humans if used excessively, but the FDA regulates how much of those steroids can be present in the meat. So unless someone is a religious meat eater, they would likely never suffer any consequences from eating meat.

[@c.k.c.2816]

Hey, I’m the person who wrote the story about the dm who replaced their party. Thanks for talking about my tale!

[@Thommy2n]

In that 1st story, the bizzarre player randomly AFKing, asking to roll a new character after ghosting like nothing happened, and ending in that tirade against OP to the other players is definitely in the wrong. Granted, OP lying about reading it was not necessarily the wisest move, it would have been better to just be honest and say something along the lines of "Saw your message yesterday, sorry I didn't reply sooner but Sunday is my no DnD day and I also wanted to let my temper cool off before responding." And then list the reasons why they were upset with what problem player did. But then again, this is of course hindsight, and in the moment we don't always make the ideal decision (heck, I'm a very non confrontation person and I'd probably make up a lame excuse too in OP's shoes). I'm still confused though how problem player would assume OP playing a video game proved OP had to have read the message. If anything it just proves that the problem player additionally showing their true colors with full on cyber stalking behavior, was overly controlling and temperamental, and did everyone a favor by leaving. Once again the trash taking itself out.

[@AuntLoopy123]

I suppose if they were online on the same platform (Steam, perhaps?) then, "OF COURSE, you saw the messages!"

[@Kaiser8513]

For the vegan, it is a game where you hold conversations with plants and animals, what would there be left to eat if everything can be sentient?

[@schwarzerritter5724]

The only advice with the stalker I can give is document everything. Save everything that was written, note everything that was said and when, make a list of every potential witness. No matter what action you end up taking, everything can be useful. Not just in the case you are force to take legal action, but someone might try telling you things happened differently than how you remember them.

[@sterrre1]

Macaroon made a beautiful update about the vegan and it ended up turning out great with the player making concessions for the other players and they hosted vegan snacks at the game. I wish you had included the update.

[@solarchos4352]

About the vegan player - EJECT-EJECT-EJECT!!!! Do NOT let her into the campaign because she WILL "pull a Delta" and go into Maximum Karen mode. It sounds like the player is trying to use the game as THERAPY.

[@ShiKageMaru]

I hope that Vegan player stays far away from any actual real animals. How dare anthropomorphic cats actually eat meat.

[@CulturalDuck]

Maybe it's the paranoid side of me but that first story seems.. fishy.. Sure, the player had said he didn't want to go and then the DM went AFK for a bit, only for the player during that time to have said bye and left. Asking the DM to make a new character later on. Then in the chat later on he 'supposedly' went on a tirade about the DM but his fiance 'accidentally' deleted the messages? That feels very odd, like something might've happened during the time DM wasn't there.

[@AuntLoopy123]

Something involving the fiancee, no doubt. And she "accidentally" deleted the messages, because she knew that if he saw the messages, he'd go ballistic (and probably with just cause), but as it was, without the proof, he'd just be really annoyed.

[@littlegiantj8761]

@@AuntLoopy123 That was kinda what I thought. It's hard to "accidentally" delete a message on Discord...

[@mrroboshadow]

@@littlegiantj8761 as far as i know, unless you specifically delete messages one by one they stay unless its a server where if ya delete a channel all the messages in that channel go too i may be wrong though

[@littlegiantj8761]

@@mrroboshadow You still have to click the three buttons, select "delete message"; and hit "yes" when asked "are you sure?"

[@sn0wb00ts]

“What’s the most fucked up thing your party has done?” I have an evil character in my game. The player roleplaying him is using this character as a treatise on how you can play an evil character in a heroic, narrative driven campaign without being toxic. Without going into descriptions, he’s done some horrific shit that would make crucifying a hobgoblin sound like tea time.

[@AuntLoopy123]

I actually came up with an idea for an evil megalomaniac to join a heroic campaign/party. His END GOAL is to take over the world, or at least the region, and definitely the country of his birth, because they "did him wrong, and need to pay." But how he goes about it is to do good deeds all over the place, and build up a reputation as a hero. Then, when the time is right, the king of his adopted country will "tragically lose his heir(s) in a mysterious accident." Then, he'll put a few words in the right ears to make the people demand that the king name HIM, the HERO, as his heir. Then, he'll wait a year or two, for things to calm down, before the king dies of "natural causes," and he takes the throne. Meanwhile, he's warmongering, behind the scenes, by making it look like the other country (the specific country he MUST take down, and all the rest will be gravy) are committing war crimes against his own, thus justifying taking his new country to war against his old country, and conquering them, FOR THE GREATER GOOD. After that, it will be a slow, but sure, slide into tyrannical empire-building. But as far as the campaign goes, he's heroic and good and a perfect fit for a good-aligned party.

[@informitas0117]

You absolutely can play evil characters without being toxic, what you have on your hands sounds like an edgelord murderhobo and *those* are 100% toxic. Example of evil done right is having your evil characters do whatever they can to help the party so the party can help them find forbidden knowledge/magic which they couldn't get to on their own. Never betraying the party.

[@KappaKiller108]

In a very general sense, Lawful Evil PC's work most of the time in any group, while Chaotic Evil PC's can only really function in an evil group without being massively disruptive. The issue is, that I'm my experience, most player don't know how to play a lawful evil character. Hell, sometimes it seems most players can only play chaotic neutral

[@ZeroFighter]

If the vegan player gripes that much, and demands that much out of pettiness, then the simple fact is that she does not fit the group dynamic like described, and should be removed. She's the only one with an issue, and so is the only one with a problem. I do not suggest making someone endure stuff they hate, so the only other option is to tell her to take a hike.

[@alisialanet2855]

I hope OP, with the stalker sounding player, can get protection. Given the fixation on their game and appearing to want complete control over OPs game, thus meaning he might want control over OPs life due to the asking OP out more than once...that is bad. OP should probably try talking to administration or a cop as a precaution to what looks like it could be forming stalker behavior. It could help, hopefully, give protection to OP and anyone OP interacts with/is friends with/family, if it were to extend to OP's family at some point. Good luck to that OP. OP could also bring it up to their parents if their parents are ones who would listen and take this obsessed guy seriously as a possible threat.

[@danielramsey6141]

My advice on Story 3 with the Stalker. Find a Protective circle of friends, Notify police, and record everything he says! Do Not EVER be ALONE with this dude! I bet you Five bucks if he had a GF, he’d be a manipulative abuser and a scumbag! He already sounds super clingy and an Attention hog! He doesn’t seem to care about personal space or invading a classroom. Dude already gives me Domestic Shooter vibes, so yeah! Get this dude to find other people to hang out with.

[@vidmanandrew09]

Stalker Story: No, she should absolutely tell everyone the truth that this man is getting upset over a _game._

[@philipbabb]

A world without cruelty is called paradise. Perhaps for the sake of experiment, we could examine a campaign set in Eden. Although, I suspect that would get boring quickly.

[@Crystan]

Most messed up thing my players have ever done - disemboweling an innkeeper who dared to charge higher than usual prices for a room. Prices were high due to demand (there was a festival going on) and part of the intention was to gently steer them towards the less desirable areas of the town. They didn't like that and basically tried to steal the whole inn by murdering the owner. The rest of the session involved either fighting or hiding from the authorities - an altogether very different campaign than the one intended.

[@vexxama]

“It’s your world and you can do anything you want” Ah, finally a reasonable take about how the DM creates the world and content with the player respecting their creative choices “So remove all the meat like I wanted and essentially give that control to me” …nevermind

[@destroyerinazuma96]

Cool CoS intro. My CoS character didn't get attracted to it or anything, he just walked into the fog while looking for firewood.

[@AuntLoopy123]

I rather like yours. It's so simple and could happen to literally anyone.

[@icecreamnoodles3742]

Vegan lady has the right to have her believes and stuff, but if it was that important to her she needs to join a game that fits what she's looking for. And not force her needs on an already well established group. That's unreasonable. Either she works out her issues with the world, or she needs to leave and can actively look for a fitting table.

[@slagarcrue85]

If vegan that’s so oversensitive entitled she never should of join the campaign.

[@frantisekvrana3902]

About vegan player: Cats are obligate carnivores, so it can be expected that Tabaxi are too (As a DM, you have a right to rule them omnivores of course, that is your choice.) My point is, carnivory is a fact of life, and if there were people who had to eat meat to survive, would this player have a race of sapient people starve to death just because she disagrees with their evolutionary history? I always found vegetarianism and veganism as an ideology crazy though. I am fine if someone decides to not eat meat or animal products, that is their right. But they have no right to force their dietary habits on other people. So I'd say, refuse.

[@Spartan135]

it's not an ideology. it's a fanatical religion that seeks to forbid everyone to eat meat,forcing everyone it can to rely on vegetables,fruits,insects an (BLEH!) SOY.

[@andrewparsons2391]

last story: it's all well and good to crucify a hobgoblin, until three days later he comes back from the dead as a god

[@thegreatcanadianweasel9928]

For the Vegan, they should go to the rest of the party with the concerns, have them all talk it out. Seems like they are overwhelmed with this demand. They should know they don't have to take it all on alone. Perfect advice for the stalker story Doge! I'm curious as to what the teacher did, cause as a teacher I would flip out at some random interruption like that. The kid bursting in would be sitting in the corner until end of class then on their way to the office.

[@informitas0117]

This is exactly what they should do.

[@fylimar]

I'm vegetarian and have a lot of vegan friends - and none of us demand, that a GMs world has to be 'cruelty free'. That players behavior is just condescending, toxic and very Karen. I would guess, she is like that in every part of her life 'Cater to my feelings or else' . I had a (non-vegan) friend, who was like that. Just tell her no, otherwise she will have new demands soon.

[@TheFuriousScribbles]

I totally get food as a worldbuilding tool. What people eat does a lot to inform their culture and I've used it in settings I've made. Even including cultures which do not eat meat or wear leather or cultures that have animals which they consider sacred and are forbidden from eating. It's interesting to think about not just what sort of things vegetarians might eat in a fantasy setting, but also what material would things like shoes or belts be made of if leather isn't allowed. Like would magic or alchemy allow someone to make animal-free material that's just as good? Is there a species of tree that has bark that can be treated to behave similar to leather? Not that this was the sort of thing our vegan player was asking for. I'm sure there's a game table out there for them though.

[@shadenox8164]

I seem to recall some armor made out of bark in older editions, there's also living plant armor.

[@DisguisedAsHuman]

One of the most messed up things my party has done was in Mothership. The crew having just dealt with some mysterious substance infecting NPCs in the mining facility and discover it had an aversion to water decided to load everyone onto their cargo ship and remain in orbit while the water reserves restocked. While locking the two known infecting NPCs and the facility’s cat into the cargo hold one of the PCs was attacked by the invisible alien. He slammed the button to lock the alien I the cargo hold as well and when it started to rend the door he jettisoned it out into space. The NPCs radioed in to his walkie begging to be rescued, so he switched it off. He still saved seven people doing that.

[@quox3987]

Curse of Strahd: the story makes me think this was either AI generated due to nonsensical details, or that the LoL thing implied he had to be online at the time of the message, which would have popped up on their screen to be seen. I also consider the possibility of the deleted paragraphs suspect of the OP being angry and deleting them and blaming their GF. Vegan story: While I do get what they mean, you don’t want something that makes you uncomfortable in real life to also be in a game, that’s something you explain beforehand, hence session zero. To be a new member and demand changes is pretty rude, it’s like walking into a Taco Bell and asking for McDoubles to be added to the menu because you don’t like tacos. Also, I’m not wholly understanding of Vegan goals, but there are creatures in nature that literally can only eat meat, if she has her way do wolves just start eating mushrooms and potatoes instead? Third and last part, even though a DM can do anything they want, they often do have to follow rules they set for themselves, following their own lore, writing style, and plot. If there’s no hunting then where do weapons come from? Stalker: restraining order, police, flip shit like it’s breakfast and you’re making pancakes. Stalkers are serious business and for one reason or another are not taken seriously by law enforcement or others on occasion. Tasers, mace, even a pocket knife if finding the better options are difficult. Also as suggested by others, gather evidence if possible, phone calls, testimonies of friends, anything admissible in court, the more you have, the better chances of people taking this seriously.

[@TheSkepticalPanda]

"Girlfriend accidentally deleted the messages", it wasn't an accident and you got a good one there chief.

[@vortega472]

Hey Doge - what a day! First story: Why is Curse of Strahd so plagued ridden with horrible players? Vegan player: I don't thinking being Vegan is problem, being entitled is the problem. Oh well more meat for me, Doge, and the kitties. Third story: the OP needs to contact the campus and police to take action and get this guy outta there. The fact that he is disrupting a class that he's not even taking shows how unstable he is. I hope the OP is safe. Forth Story: As Doge said - it could be done cool. It wasn't and it cost the jerk DM his game, as to the other player - I feel bad for his next group he will eventually join when work allows. Fifth Story: The DM was a gutless tool. Good riddance. Sixth Story: Tame by comparison. But it seems like the party has calmed down. I think as the DM becomes more experienced they will learn to counter or work with the party - but alignment shifts and consequences should be a thing. As to the good things today; I love widdle Alice so much. She's so beautiful - like a cute baby tiger. Tigers eat meat btw.

[@OmegaZyion]

Vegan: "I want this world to be cruelty free where animals don't suffer." Me as a DM: "Okay, all the animals in my world can talk and they beg people to eat them because they all have a vore fetish."

[@AuntLoopy123]

Last story: Time to start having officers of the law, investigating crimes against innocents in the area. Approach the party, and ask for their aid in investigating. Work it around so that they party realizes that Columbo is investigating THEIR murderous actions, and now they have to choose to take responsibility and make amends, somehow, or else to go the evil route and try to beat the investigation. If they don't stand up and take responsibility, make it look like they fool Columbo, but then, once he's safely away from them, give it a day or two, before they find their first "Wanted," poster, with THEIR names, descriptions, and a very bad drawing of THEM on it. Also, if any of the party are "good-aligned" clerics, paladins, rangers, etc., or anyone who gets their power from a good-aligned higher power, let them LOSE that power. For example, the warlock made a deal with an archangel, instead of a demon? His spell focus breaks. The cleric serves Lathander? His holy symbol breaks. The paladin can't use his paladin abilities, anymore, and is now simply a fighter, but without the fighter's special abilities. He keeps his HP and strength and weapons, but none of that second wind or action surge stuff that fighters get, because he's NOT a fighter. He's a fallen paladin, who lost his paladin abilities, and now is just some a-hole, swinging a sword.

[@erinbrown3744]

My best friend told me the “cruelty free” story. She was absolutely incredulous like “Okay, so hunting pigs is right out, but those orcs you slaughtered, those were fine?!” She’s a vegetarian.

[@dragonmasterknight7]

Regarding the stalking story I would honestly inform campus security and then get police involved. His behavior went from plain annoying to straight out life threatening. Afterwards, get a restraining order and make the whole story public to friends and family so they can be prepared to avoid him.

[@AuntLoopy123]

As for using the goblin head to trigger the trap, I don't have a problem with that, as long as they had a VALID REASON to kill the goblin, in the first place. For example, the goblins ambushed the party, and the party won the fight? Fine. It doesn't really matter if you keep a head, to use to trigger traps. My party is taking heads of various monsters we kill to a taxidermist, to start our trophy collection. But we don't just attack monsters willy nilly. We HAVE talked our way out of fights, and even become friends with a few goblins.

[@velentr]

More GMs need to use this sentence regularly: "I'm sorry, but our play styles just don't mesh and I don't think either of us are going to enjoy playing together. This is where we part ways, I hope you find a better group. Goodbye and Good luck."

[@GarkKahn]

I had an experience with a vegan last year She wanted to save a species that were plants from some humans and then she would eat those plants afterwards... Yeah... i'd rather play with a party full of weird furries thank you very much

[@DunantheDefender]

People pushing moral values onto pets and animals fills me with rage.

[@l0stndamned]

2nd story: Firstly a pre-existing game should not have to make such big changes just for one fussy player. Plus the entitlement of the player would probably make her a problem later dow the line anyway and I find it hard to believe a game as combat-focused as d&d could stay "cruelty-free" for long. 3rd story: Restraining order plus let everyone know he's a weirdo.

[@littlegiantj8761]

Don't ever comply with people who try to tell you how to GM, if what you're doing isn't anything above PG/PG-13....did that myself, and I learned the hard way you'll end up being more focused on the egg shells you're walking, and not having any fun as the GM. Listen to genuine advice, for sure. But I don't have patience for people with a laundry list of demands anymore.

[@ethankaryadi37]

I personally have a friend who opened a vegan restaurant. He’s vegan himself and I guarantee you that he’s far from a toxic vegan. He’d be in grievances if he hears about That Vegan Player.

[@AuntLoopy123]

Yeah. There are PLENTY of wonderful vegans, who realize that their choices are THEIR choices, and nobody else's. They treat others with respect, and deserve respect in return. There are also plenty of Crossfit enthusiasts who know not to solicit about it with other people. Unfortunately, it only takes one selfish, demanding loudmouth to give them all a bad name.

[@Denkono]

There's a time and place for argumentation, yet being a doormat to those who excuse rights violations towards innocent beings done by others would not be accepted if those beings were human. I don't know your friend's rationalization of vegan ethics, yet "Pick-me" types are a detriment to any movement whether it's veganism, civil rights, women's rights, list goes on.

[@Kepora1]

Incorrect, he just hasn't revealed his true colors yet. Wait until the soy and lack of B12 rots his brain.

[@GarkKahn]

They're the same case as furries

[@Kepora1]

@@GarkKahn not at all. There's a lot more down to earth furs than crazy ones, vegans are ALL insane.

[@tsifirakiehl4250]

First story: I’m sorry, what? Let me get this straight; Chris makes a character, then suddenly decides his character won’t go on the adventure and leaves, then throws a fit at the DM. My brain hurts trying to figure out what he’s trying to do. Second story: OP, just kick this person. If she doesn’t want to eat meat, that’s her choice, but she can’t enforce her personal choices on the rest of the world. Plus, a “cruelty-free”world wouldn’t be fun to play in-if nothing bad happens, there’s nothing for the heroes to do. Obviously being uncomfortable with graphic scenes of animal torture is one thing, but that doesn’t sound like that’s what’s happening here. It sounds like this lady is just throwing a fit because you don’t want to play Vegan Utopia Simulator 3000. Just tell her she’s not a good fit for your campaign. Third story: OP, call campus security or the police. You have reason to believe this guy is stalking you. I’m not an expert on law, but I think you might even have grounds to file a restraining order against him. Fourth story: Wow, no wonder that campaign fell apart. That player and the DM were total jerks. Here’s hoping OP and the other players found a better campaign! Fifth story: I think the players dodged a bullet, honestly. They only had to put up with that guy for one session, and now they’re free to find a better campaign. Sixth story: This is what session zero is for. The players and the DM need to agree on boundaries and a code of conduct ahead of time to avoid nasty surprises like this.

[@MarquisLeary34]

CURSE of Strahd strikes again. I'm telling you, there's a gypsy hex on that module....

[@krysbingham2501]

Okay but I did learn something about a setting my character is from where they don't eat meat unless its summoned, because its more about the killing of animals. When magic exists, there are more than one way to play a Vegatarian/vegan character. But this ain't it. Edit: So the post has edits for the story about the vegan player. They're gonna have a midcampaign session 0 to realign and the players found the post. Even the vegan player found it and OPs a little mortified but Vegan has some mirth about their 'irl stealth nat 1'. I think we can count this as a happy ending, they're friends and this wasn't someone who meant any harm. If this was a rando going 'change your entire world', I imagine OP would have just kicked them

[@Doodle1776]

Maybe the DM should have stopped the game and said, "No, I'm not letting you do that." Then continued on from there. DMs need to grow balls and stop activities that they are obviously uncomfortable with, others are uncomfortable with, or outright violate the tone of the game. If someone wanted to crucify an NPC in that manner who are supposed to be good, I'm going to stop the game, tell them no, and be done with it. I don't run games fit psychos.

[@TheDarkPixie99]

Regarding “No doesn’t mean no”: If you find yourself in this situation as a woman DM, usually speaking with the principal/dean will get you some space. Only problem is, the dude was waving red flags long before the session started. Not sure if his impulse to interrupt was special needs, or just an ancient flirting technique with additional friend manipulation techniques.

[@koboldking7153]

The hobgoblin should come back as Goblin Jesus

[@mobiusZero2]

The Hobgoblin one was a mess, even so I don't play DND ( yet ) like the heros from " The boys " If I were to be their DM, there's a consequences that Hobgoblin who was Crucifix survived and their clan patrol came across him, 2 scenarios. #1 The clan hobgoblin hunt down the Hero's and arrest them, taken back to their clan strong hold and punish accordingly #2 They were arrested by the royal guards of the city and went to court house host by multiple race then the hero's asked why they were arrested. They were question of their titles as hero's but the court will have a witness for their actions The HobGoblin they encounter. well thats my take, nothing to get too serious

[@ryanharland5787]

Last story: it sounds like that party just created hobgoblin Jesus and he'll be back in three days for revenge.

[@marooniballooni03759]

off topic, but if I hear about someone giving their house cats an actual vegan diet, stupidity will become a quarantine of its own.

[@RioDrake]

Animals are cruel. Have housecats torture smaller animals to death and leave them uneaten.

[@haemocyte2224]

On the subject of the most messed up thing, yesterday I as a player narrowly missed threatening to cook an innocent baker in their own oven (the lead we were after actually pointed to the building next door to the bakery and my character is rather done with this treasure hunt).

[@RedRattt]

I'm vegan and story 2 sounds unbearable. This is the kind of animal rights activism that just hurts the cause.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Peta brand animal rights activism

[@Kepora1]

Veganism hurts the cause itself.

[@Spartan135]

vegans are crazy weirdos who want to forbid all people to eat meat and animal based products,because it make them getting bad fee fees about the oh so poor animals.

[@jaydenleveille8181]

I have 5 regular players and one 6th slot that useally comes and goes as other friends can only join for a few games. The last session the temporary player can attend always gets turned into a raid boss encounter. If players die we either just let it slide or have a resurrection quest to get them back. Honestly a great time just be sure to get all your players buy in first.

[@Hagenfels]

My party threw dead water goblins at something similar to a mine to trigger it. And because they missed multiple times, they had to throw multiple of the goblins.

[@mrbeebs44]

I remember once I was playing an NPC Orc Barbarian that decapitated a bandit and kept his head as a stick puppet

[@jakec892]

The most messed up thing that happened in the group was we fought a gigantic ice dire wolf and we insta killed it by having someone grab its testicles with a skeletal spell hand and the monk crit uppercutting it, ripping them off and killing it instantly.

[@Bacon8t0r]

Darkest thing a party of mine did? Probably when my brother and I were both paladins (I think I was a dragonborn and he was basically a Dwarf Havel from Dark Souls) I had grappled a goblin and we had the running joke of being "holy frat bros" and chest bumped, turning the goblin to paste from the impact.

[@rynowatcher]

First one: the player is either completely irrational or the op is leaving some stuff out. I think the op excluding things more likely as truly irrational people are rare.

[@Zetact_]

Malicious compliance: "Don't worry, all the animals are fine. They do not die when being cooked and eaten, and the meat chunks they turn into are one-hundred percent sentient."

[@OmegaZyion]

I would just have all of the animals start begging the PC's to eat them. It isn't cruelty if it's what they want.

[@Renkencen]

Story 2- Personally I weould kicked her or rather tell her the game is "not for her".

[@Thedragonlover95]

Indeed

[@KingZNIN]

The worst thing one of my players did was in simple terms found the town drunk, slept with them kill them slowly (because of bad damage rolls), and then left a few gold for the drunks mother.

[@darklord884]

The vegan story sounds like that story about a druid who attacked her own party as they fought wolves because "No hurt annimalls!"

[@DnDDoge]

I think I may have covered that one, lol

[@darklord884]

@@DnDDoge You indeed have!

[@Svartalf14]

The harassed DM should contact a lawyer to get a court order, little less will work against a stalker

[@godzuky2743]

on the third story, the stalker, call the damn cops... if he's following the op around school without being noticed he's definitely going to or is already doing it outside the school.

[@Korhanne]

re: stalker -- Police/campus security. best advice I can give. being deliberately disruptive, aggressive, stalking you, talking to people behind your back, and barging into a classroom is way beyond the pale of acceptable. if they know, they can keep an eye on things.

[@thedungeondelver]

As a bloodmouth carnist let me just say, about the vegan player: Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. No.

[@darkcerabrate]

I’ve probably done worse with other chars but my dm gave me a strike(3 and my alignment would have shifted) for mercy killing a priest. His legs were cut off and eyes gouged out and the rest was party was evil and couldn’t care less. I did not have the ability to cure this and we were quite far from civilization

[@TheSqoad]

Uuuh, maybe the vegan player would rather find another group to play a My Little Pony campaign where everyone eats hay and apples? Maybe that would solve the problem.

[@77Zenin77]

How exactly could someone make "cruelty free" Game that is is about killing monsters.

[@kyletucker3811]

Just tell the player its not the game for her.

[@ChaosCounseling]

Making the vegan happy would take away from the chef. So I hope op doesn’t comply because it’s basically saying one player matters more the. The other. And I get if it makes her uncomfortable but that just means she needs to find a game that has her values as part of things from the get go

[@Svartalf14]

The DM who replaced his party likely did NOT goof, or he'd had at least tried to keep the party, and maybe talked to the dead cleric about making a new character.... odds are, he decided at some point he didn't like that party and set out to get rid of them.

[@Jaeger_Bishop]

Meh, Vegans tend to be holier than that types so the second story wasn't surprising in the least. I'd tell her to just deal with it or find a new table, I'm not bending over backwards for some lunatic trying to take control of my world and setting to suit her particular tastes for no real reason, aside from emotional arguments.

[@Spartan135]

hear hear!

[@wyvern723]

The most fucked up things included my characters being sexually assaulted while unconscious, players getting drunk and brutally killing each other's horses, and stirring up a mob of villagers to lynch an innocent druid who'd done nothing to the party. Two of those were from the same campaign.

[@benkayvfalsifier3817]

Story #1 I get not answering in anger, but there was no reason to lie about not seeing the message.

[@novadrake9232]

How ironic that I got the ad for the game you're playing in the background Metroid Prime remastered for the switch

[@hikaru9624]

I kinda like the idea of a player character having a dietary hurdle to overcome. It would make for some good roleplay I feel. But what this player was asking for was a tad too much. I can't imagine how much of a chore it would be for the DM to overhaul a world they crafted just to fit the needs (or wants in this case) of a singular player. And I agree totally about feeding obligate carnivores a vegan diet. Dogs can survive on a vegan diet but that's not thriving though. If you want a pet to be vegan or fit your vegan lifestyle then get a herbivore (and do more than 2 minutes of research in regards to caring for the animal. Hamsters need a great deal more care than you'd think).

[@DisneyChar]

Stalker seems easy, tell anyone who brings it up that "he tried to force himself on me" it's true, not physically, but he definitely didn't take no for an answer.

[@squeakymeow]

7:25 that opinion jumpscared me lol, be careful with stuff like this on the internet, I'm scared people gonna spam hate now.

[@kyuven]

Changing an entire setting to be cruelty free is absolutely absurd. First, humans are animals. Second, cruelty free is an illusion. Anyone who believes anything can be cruelty free has never been a farmer. These people have serious problems with how reality works and will lash out whenever anyone points out they're wrong as a coping mechanism to not face the fact that the real world is HARSH AS HELL.

[@brandonhall7498]

For the Vegan player couple of solutions. 1. She can move on and find another group. 2.She can bare with it and enjoy the role play realizing that the game world is made before she was a part of it. 3. Cyberpunk RED- Meat is extremely rare and exorbitantly expensive. Insects such as ants, locusts, and mealworms fill that role as does SCOP (single cell organism protein). This still may trigger her as most animals are either extinct or endangered.