Do Modern Guns Belong In Fallout?

[@ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy]

Get 20% off + free shipping @manscaped with code BRANDYBOY at mnscpd.com/brandyboy #teammanscaped

[@handsomeivan1980]

Does the Handmade count ?

[@MTF-EPSILON-11-5-NULL]

Can you make 2 videos one censored and one uncensored

[@MTF-EPSILON-11-5-NULL]

Oh and release the uncensored after by like a week

[@Nyacinth]

How dare you compare idiot savant builds to these savages that like the assault rifle, despicable behaviour

[@joshuayow4653]

Were should firearms stop? More like were should fallout stop. 80s action movies for automatics 70s fud guns for the Simi and none automatics. 60s pop/punk scifi for the energy weapons. 50s retro futurism for the cars and robots. 40s art deco style modern cities ( that have been blown up and scavenged into empty husks). 20s-30s gangsters and cowboys running everything. With none stop pop culture references in every little thing, outlining the grim dark humor. That was the original fallouts, Bethesda has no clue what a fallout game is, they turned cultural art into bubbly crap.

[@Killicon93]

The problem that I have with the "modern gun mods" is that most of them have no wear and tear on the texture. So the guns end up looking like they were just unboxed from a vacuum-sealed container after hundreds of years of storage.

[@ryszakowy]

considering that gunrunners are manufacturing new weapons i'd say it's completely ok oh wait bugthesda's failout doesn't have that theya re stuck in first two weeks after the bombs

[@ni9274]

@@ryszakowy Their weapons magically stay perfect even when used for years in the wasteland ? Fallout 4 doesn't happen in the same region.

[@andrewgreeb916]

​@@ryszakowy it baffles me how after 200 years the only guns being made are pipe weapons, like I'm certain some people are more than caple of machining more powerful weapons, I'm certain some gun manufacturing plants survived even if the workers didn't.

[@shadowcharizard4592]

@@andrewgreeb916 more than pipe weapons are being produced, but the pipe guns are cheap and easy to produce, making them much more prevalent

[@robertspeedwagon982]

@@ryszakowy even the Gunrunners' guns aren't as clean as the pristine texture these mods give to their glocks and P90

[@user-gc3qj7md8c]

I would say Vietnam era weapons would be a good cut off point for the Fallout series. 30 years is a reasonable time for divergent technology to start making massive changes in the tech world.

[@pjthehomelessmage]

Absolutely. The military of the US would most likely be aesthetically similar to the Vietnam era but with more modern materials and sci-fi future elements.

[@filthycasual6118]

I can see this working from a lore perspective as well. I don't know if Vietnam is canon in Fallout, but it marked a time of escalating tensions between the United States and China, which feels like a fitting motive to upscale weapons R&D for both sides.

[@radiantwolf773]

@@filthycasual6118 What about early 70s weaponry? I use that Springfield M1A mod someone made, I felt it still fits bc it's pretty much an M14 regardless in all but name.

[@Tyrranis]

Agreed. Using Vietnam as the divergence point makes sense as it both allows plenty of time for the tech to develop the way that it has in Fallout while still giving us some of the weaponry we've seen in the Fallout titles (like the M-16esque Service Rifle from New Vegas).

[@radiantwolf773]

Basically for me, I draw the line at anything past mid 70s so the MR73 revolver, Wildey, etc narrowly miss that requirement

[@zonk4718]

I like that new Vegas had small changes in how the guns functioned, like the lack of polymer furniture due to oil shortages so they had wooden furniture, also for some reason all the ARs where side chargers

[@DJWeapon8]

Yeah the side charging for the Assault Carbine and Marksman Carbine were weird. I chalk it up to time constraints. 18 months on a massive game like New Vegas and on an engine that they're unfamiliar with and isn't made for RPGs? You couldn't really blame them. The Service Rifle on the other hand, I want it to keep the questionable design. Just because of the lore it would imply for the NCR and its crippling corruption and bureaucracy.

[@heroinboblivesagain5478]

​@@DJWeapon8 Its not like side charging AR pattern rifles, while uncommon, don't exist.

[@charlesfuzak]

@@heroinboblivesagain5478 But when was that even a remotely common design. I know there are tons of options today but was it common even as late as the 90s? If the modern guns in Fallout end around the late 90s/early 2000s, would that be something you could easily find?

[@heroinboblivesagain5478]

@@charlesfuzak Easily? No. Is a wooden furniture AR-10 pattern rifle with original under the carrying handle charing handle? Lots of handles there sorry lmao.

[@DJWeapon8]

@@heroinboblivesagain5478 that's not what's depicted in New Vegas. The carging handle for the prewar Assault Carbines and Marksman Carbines *_are on the bolt and sticking out of the ejection port without a relief cut and a flip up dust cover still attached and a forward assist still included._*

[@drakus40k]

The biggest problem when looking at Bethesda's recent take on firearms, is that they clearly have no one in the design studio who has ever used a damned firearm. The 'original' firearms they put into Starfield & Fallout4/76 make zero sense. Ammunition types seem to be assigned randomly, with no regard to the physical size of a round or the gun. Weapons have no viable path for ammunition to feed from the magazine. Weapons who's parts don't make sense - actions that do nothing, parts that would impede function, etc. They need someone on their team that can do mechanical gun designs that function. If they just don't want to pay licensing fees for the use of a particular gun, I understand that...but don't put in what some random 8 year old drew up as a firearm design. Oof.

[@iaminevitablethanos5168]

Tbf we are on a game where fusion cores exist soo...

[@drakus40k]

@@iaminevitablethanos5168 at least with the fusion cores I'm pretty sure the name 'fusion core' was an in-game marketing plot (a lie) by Mass Fusion. Since they clearly haven't mastered fusion at all. Those cores have to work through some sort of fission reaction, just like every other nuclear powered device in Fallout. So I can at least head canon my way around that. But those guns are unforgivable...

[@iaminevitablethanos5168]

@@drakus40k yeah but still impossible but I like the new guns😭😭 They give me 50s vibes (except that goofy 10mm, that’s just fat)

[@novembermike512]

It's like how cartoon artists still have to go through anatomy classes. When they don't they tend to draw things that don't follow reality in bad and boring ways. The Bethesda artists don't know anything about guns so they tend to make guns that look wrong in bad and boring ways.

[@byron2FZ]

Clearly they should bring back Fallout 3s weapons dev team.

[@sealake7935]

I feel like WW2 weapons and Cold War era weapons fit into Fallout really well. I also love the original designs for guns like the 10mm pistol.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

That would means stuff up to the early 90s. (To include guns that were developed in the late 80s but not finished until the 90s), like the Steyr AUG, FN P90, all kinds of AR and AK style guns (up to the M16A2 and AK74), G11, Barret M82, AS Val, all different ACRs (The AAI, the Colt, The Steyr) , FN Minimi, tons of Glocks, M249, Desert Eagle, Galil, Uzi, AK5, WA2000, etc. The 80s brought us all kinds of weird stuff like polymer bullpup rifles, flechettes, combined rifle/grenade setups, etc.

[@imto5]

Why though in fallout 4 they literally have a polymer factory in the game so I’m confused to why nobody likes the idea of certain modern weapons

[@ej_22]

​@@HappyBeezerStudios Manny fallout fan believe the timeline splits in the 50s

[@Destroyer_V0]

@@ej_22 Correct, because it does with the lack of use of the transistor untill much later in the timeline, and even then. Divergence doesn't mean there can't be similarities to our own though. People who are still born, guns that are still designed regardless of the timeline alterations elsewhere.

[@ej_22]

@@Destroyer_V0 yeah,if if the timeline splits curtain firearms would not exist, those firearm would only fit the looks of 50s firearms,meaning the new firearm designs based on the post-WWII studies wouldn't happen

[@somethingsomewhere2062]

I feel like "lore-friendly" in terms of Fallout's weaponry is more of an aesthetic than a time period. ACOGs exist in-universe, despite their invention falling outside of the divergence. So, basically, if you can make it look like it fits (lessen the use of polymers, dirty it up a bit or add wood furniture) there's really no reason not to mod in modern weapons.

[@baker90338]

The acog first came out in 87’. I tend to draw the line at the 1990’s but I’m not against them.

[@brothatscrazy3418]

This right here, If they made a honey badger that had wood furniter and less modern attachments I'd be all for it as I think it would match the "fallout" aesthetic but that's just my opinion.

[@thecthuloser876]

To be honest, I think I'd have a lot less issues with "tacticool" firearms if the modders too effort to make them seem worn down or add wood furniture instead of polymer. But since everything is super fucking clean and I'm not even a fan the aesthetic of these guns in the real world... I really hate it in Fallout. Glad it exists for people who want them.

[@joenathan8594]

Exactly some modern guns l Add because they Fit the art style like the P90 and the Styr Aug's more organic Curves and the Desert Eagle, Glock 17 and I'd stretch the newest mod, the P30L's Boxy or Enlarged Style fits well. But generally l cap it to early 80's Civilian Models, so M16A1's, Uzi's, Mac11's and wacky shit, like the Smith and Wesson 500 bone collector and G11.

[@alec4025]

@@baker90338 Why are people drawing the line at the 1990s which is 40 years after the 1950s.

[@anamusingidiot2565]

Reminder that in Fallout there is little to no oil for polymer furniture, so keep in mind that all the modern guns we're talking about will likely have wooden or straight up metal furniture, like the classic 10mm weapons or sniper rifle.

[@kanrakucheese]

Or bakelite and hemacite furniture. Those don't need petrol to make, *and* have a cool, unique appearance.

[@kman9884]

So more AKs

[@anamusingidiot2565]

@@kman9884 I mean and other stuff. And they better keep the damn dust cover on 'em, that "her dee der wasteland aesthetic go brrr" shit is ugly

[@Spetsnazty]

a modern ar 15 have almost no plastic except for the stock

[@kanrakucheese]

@@Spetsnazty And grip, and magazine, and the body of most accessories (sights, optics).

[@CrizzyEyes]

The retrofuturism in classic Fallout was relegated to entirely fictional concepts (laser and plasma pistols, ray guns) and consumer items with an element of form over function, like cars. That's the difference. It wasn't applied in a way that makes you think pre-war Fallout USA was technologically backwards, except where stated (lack of microchips). And they definitely weren't; there exist power armors that ran off man portable fusion reactors as well as AI, somehow, despite the lack of microchips. The aesthetic is there just to symbolize the peak era of American optimism to clash with how shitty everything turned out. The problem with things like the FO4 Assault Rifle is that it implies that all the standard modern, and even Cold War era, weapons platforms were replaced by some weird pre-WW2 monstrosity. It's the aesthetics weirdly influencing the worldbuilding in a negative way. It makes one ask why anyone would design a gun like this, in other words.

[@kiesta0740]

Best comment on this video, that is the reason I think the aesthetic works so well even if it's kind of contradictory by its nature.

[@LecherousLizard]

The retrofuturism of classic Fallouts was essentially: _"How would 2077 look like from the perspective of a 1950s person as we understood it in 1997, except 80 years after it got nuked?"_ The retrofuturism of Bethesda's Fallouts is essentially: _"How would 2077 look like if 1950s lasted 120 years, except it got nuked, but everybody still thinks it's 1950s?"_

[@killakhan7863]

For me personally the cold war is the best era for weapons and kit for fallout because a lot of the ideas were still developing so you could easily diverge that in ways that would be strange and interesting because it's alternative history so you could get an intermediate cartridge gun like the EM2 and then have it be significantly modernized in a manner similar to an L85A3

[@coolfrymaster]

Agreed, and frankly with the huge nuke scares at the time those types of weapons really do fit the fallout series quite perfectly. It was also early enough that every gun was quite unique yet *relatively* simple in its design (at least visually) and not just a conglomeration of rails and various attachments.

[@JFirecracker]

Actually based take, I typically had my cutoff about WW2 but that _does_ feel way too early

[@thornescapes7707]

That's a good divergence point, but gun development shouldn't just... stop. It can develop differently, but it should still show some sort of development happening until the bombs drop in 2077.

[@ej_22]

​@@JFirecracker yeah, my cut off is mid cold war so early 80 maybe late 70s

[@Nightshade31401]

Well, it's your lucky day because Fallout 1/2 diverge in terms of real weapon technology at about 1994. It splits right at the end of the Cold War and a few years after. Fallout 2 literally has the L86 LSW.

[@sird4vy501]

I was shocked by the guns on the original Fallout. Most of them were clearly and instantly recognizable. While Fo4 has what would describe as the "uncanny valley" of weapon design. With its bolt action rifles having the "bolt" on the wrong side, as is the ejection of cartridge.

[@matthewbartley2746]

I've always hated the Lect handed bolt. I get that's a real thing and anyone can buy a rifle for Left handed shooters. Every... single.. damn.. one.. is a left handed rifle. That'll work fine, but.. right handed weapons are the extreme majority for all weapons because.. left handed shooters are much rarer than right handed. And most militaries... will just teach you to shoot right handed.. it's a skill it can be developed like any other. I think the lefty bolt rifle.. is just so we can see the action working better and our "hands" doing shit. But in Fallout 4. Nick (the default male protagonist) was a soldier. He's well trained, highly skilled, and has combat experience in actual fighting. He was power armor trained too and worked in a heavy Infantry unit. So he was mobile support for power armor troops. He knows how to use it. He is co.petent with every American military small arms, and thus.. would be fine with all that stuff and EVEN HE WOULD KNOW.. that removing the rifle from the firing position, to cycle the action with your support hand, then reshouldering the rifle properly.. is a great way to lose battlefield awareness by being unable to keep your eyes in your sights/optics and operating the weapon quickly and get it back in the fight. Hell having to leave ADS to reload.. as a SOLDIER. I find.. odd at best. Infuriating at worst. "So you know guns eh" (to Arturo in Diamond City) Then Arturo de.onstrayes he knows as much about guns as the average Hollywood producer.

[@matthewbartley2746]

And I work at SilencerCo making Supressors for firearms. So.. every time someone makes the statement that for stealth, just stick a silencer on your gun. Is probably the dumbest and least accurate statement in all of firearms. Anyone who's seen a real supressor knows they are not.. silent. Despite the nickname silencer. They make the gun shot "hearing safe" sure there's a few rare exceptions. But the vast majority are just hearing safe (Under 85 Decibels) meaning. There's absolutely no chance whatsoever of not hearing the obvious gunshot.. over 150 meters away. Because it's still loud. The advantage of a squad using supressors.. is they can communicate with eachither better in the fight because the deafening blast of muzzle reports is reduced to a more manageable level. That's why thr US Military is adopting suppressors for every combat rifle. Because it enhances teamwork and unity. It don't make you some super secret stealth macV sog seal delta ninja assassin. But it's a game. But dammit if that shits not really annoying. Lol

[@fluffywolfo3663]

i don't even need 'em to be modern. I just need to be able to take them seriously from either a lore or design perspective. Optimally both. ...Nowt too easy wiith the "assault rifle"

[@dauntsix7826]

​@@matthewbartley2746 his name is Nate

[@EnlargedBrain]

As a left handed person I see this as an absolute win!

[@itaybron]

The dumbest part is that the pipe guns are also technically pre war (you can see them on one of the magazines)

[@fuckinantipope5511]

I wouldn't even mind pipe guns if they weren't basically the only thing you get at low levels or from low level enemies. Especially Raiders, who should've stolen good guns from other people. But a simple wanderer or farmer? A pipe gun would fit imo. I personally got a lot of mods for low level lists to have more options. Only issue is that a lot of pistols are now the (irl) rare Borchardt C93 but still better than only pipe pistols.

[@thecthuloser876]

...pipe guns and homemade firearms absolutely exist in the real world. Not quite as they do in Fallout, but like... The Japanese prime minister that was assassinated last year was killed with a homemade gun.

[@itaybron]

@@thecthuloser876 i never said they don't exist, i said the ones in game are pre-war which makes no god damn sense considering it's over 220 years after the war.

[@knowledge4741]

This isn't dumb, because lore-wise it makes sense. The lore was, the Detroit gangs would use them before the war.

[@itaybron]

@@knowledge4741 how would pieces of wood and copper survive and still function 220 or more years after they were made?

[@mrZavior]

Adam Adamowicz has been Bethesda's biggest loss ever...

[@greencouch2314]

Who’s that?

[@AeroHybrid]

@@greencouch2314 Adam’s one of the lead concept artist for Elder Scrolls Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout 3. He did a great job at staying true to the armory, outfits, aestheic and atmosphere of the older Fallout games (Fallout 3). Sadly he passed away from lung cancer in 2012 and that’s when the tone and aestheics went downhill with Fallout 4 etc.

[@nathandoyle8852]

Actually, fallout 2 had a pipe rifle in it. It was probably the first firearm you found. It fired a single 9 mm pistol bullet in a bolt action zipgun. Fallout tactics had a 9mm zipgun pistol also.

[@DJWeapon8]

Pipe weapons should've been like that. Single shot "better than nothing" guns that you only see at the early game or in the hands of poor NPCs. Revolvers at the most.

[@nathandoyle8852]

@@DJWeapon8 I’m not opposed to a more robust system of pipe weapons, but fo4 went a bit beyond plausibility. It had a good idea but made it too ‘normal’ imo

[@DJWeapon8]

@@nathandoyle8852 yeah. It felt like 50% of all weapons were pipe weapons. It makes no sense as the Commonwealth has factions that are capable of producing good weapons in a high enough quantity. Arturo in Diamond City can at least outfit the guards there. The Gunners have several bases with equipment for making guns. Goodneighbor gangs can make and (for some reason) smuggle guns. The Minutemen would've been making guns (not laser muskets) years before when they were still in power.

[@nathandoyle8852]

@@DJWeapon8 i also think that a lot of the “normal” weapons should have ramshackle piperifle-like repairs done on them around places that don’t have the tools to fabricate decent replacement parts.

[@DJWeapon8]

​@@nathandoyle8852 for the most part yes. Half of the majority of Fallout's ranged weapons should be remanufactured derivatives of "modern" guns made in the postwar that lack many of what we take for granted in our weapons today due to being in the post apocalypse. No picatinny rails. Wooden or all metal furniture rather than polymer Little to no attachments like grips, muzzle devices, flashlights, lasers, and optics. Rudimentary iron sights. Low durability to substandard materials. The M27 is the prewar original. The NCR Service Rifle is the postwar derivative.

[@lane-_-mass5006]

I think the fallout 4 assault rifle should be rebranded as a heavy mqchine gun and then the fallout 3 one should be the assault rifle but i dont think itll happen

[@Matt-md5yt]

It was originally that but Bethesda

[@lane-_-mass5006]

@@Matt-md5yt i know

[@sunshoe-l5r]

I think the fallout 4 assault rifle shouldn't exist, at all, ever, in any capacity.

[@KorianHUN]

Man i would just make real life props of retro guns and send a ton of photos if bethesda agreed to not put random crappy looking shit in Fallout 5 designed by modelers who never even held a gun in their lives.

[@stevenstocker9873]

​@ViPER5RT10 , replace the water barrel with the mg42 barrel and shroud and replace the stock. It would look a lot better. Also, change it to a lmg in classification and specs.

[@therandomscout6590]

This reminds me of Mikeburnfire. He had no problem using modern guns in Fallout but in a mod he was playing, he found some Abrams wrecks and had an aneurysm and had to remove them using console commands.

[@UrDadsFavouriteMaleEscort]

You know what video?

[@jaywerner8415]

What video was that?

[@therandomscout6590]

@@jaywerner8415 kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5CyipuYd8xmhc0 24.23

[@alexanderzachary1001]

@@jaywerner8415 was in the new california play through if im not mistaken one of the later videos.

[@Intrepid_A]

pretty sure that was because Zach was pissed off with the Abrams being there

[@zzman305]

There is a bit of lore regarding the Marksman Rifle that's relevant to your arguments. New Vegas design lead J.E. Sawyer for awhile would regularly answer questions regarding New Vegas' development and lore, primarily due to his opinion that the game was shafted by Bethesda due to its unrealistic deadline and the amount of cut content. He answered a few important questions regarding New Vegas weapons and their differences with those in Fallout 3. On the Marksman Rifle, when asked why its so modern compared to other guns in the game, he stated that lore wise the weapon is actually an non-standard issue special forces weapon that was designed specifically for elite paratroopers stationed at Nellis. It isn't something that would be common in the Fallout universe and instead represents that by 2077 "modern weapons" like those we have in our timeline were just beginning to appear as prototypes. I also have a vague memory of him also answering a question regarding the Service rifle. Nearly all are produced and supplied to the NCR entirely by the Gun Runners who gained access to a pre-war supply of originals. They are indeed older than FO3's R91, and do date back to the 20th century. They were hand-me-downs being issued to the California National Guard instead of newer R91's, which were all meant for the frontlines. He also mentioned that due to the "Commonwealth" system of Fallout, State National Guard forces had way more leeway with determining what weapons were standard issue. The Commonwealth's would often purchase and supply themselves directly with equipment from competing arms makers. California might issue M16s, while poorer states like those in the Southwest might only be able to afford WWII era weapons. This was his "lore" solution to every Fallout games weapon differences. While this lore isn't in game anywhere, I personally consider it canon due to its source.

[@bigbaz4632]

That works really well.

[@fasthink864]

“primarily due to his opinion that the game was shafted by Bethesda” I’ve never heard J Sawyer say this and it’s really unlike his professional attitude to say something disparaging about a company he could believably work with again. Every original Fallout developer has nothing but nice things to say about their interactions with Bethesda. The 18 month development timeframe, from the developers point of view, was simply biting off more than they could chew, and had nothing to do with Bethesda constraining or interfering with their work. It’s entirely a fictional excuse by NV fanboys to blame the unfinished nature of the game on anyone but the actual developers

[@sonyerikson]

I think you can add any modern gun into Fallout. You just need to modify it a little. Take out the polymer and make it steel with wooden furniture. And then add some wear and tear to it.

[@toe_sucker_4165]

Better yet, just have a gun factory. It's been 200+ years, get some fucking industrialization in here.

[@tugalord]

Personally i would like to see guns like the FAL or the FNC in future games, id say they fit the fallout aesthetic pretty well.

[@twinzzlers]

​@@tugalord They'd have to he edited like how OP said though, maybe they could act as sort of prototypes.

[@tugalord]

@@twinzzlers the FAL entered service in the 50s and the fnc in the 70s, i dont think you would need to change them that much.

[@jacks3829]

This 🎉

[@TheOneWayDown]

Personally I like the mid cold war aesthetic. More battle rifles, early assault rifles, and WWII holdovers. I don't have too much of an issue with the marksman carbine, but I personally think it is a little out of place. Wood furniture, bespoke scopes, and proxy wars are the vibe I want out of my guns lol

[@pablosoleramaeso4561]

Yeah being honest I think a mixture of 1960s and 1980s weaponry or something similar like that would fit perfectly in fallout. Just imo.

[@imnotaracistokay]

A wooden handle desert eagle sounds cursed af

[@maxwellhesher1790]

@@imnotaracistokayThe deag showing up in fallout always confused me, it’s not an easy to upkeep firearm and has a lot of finicky quirks that would make it near impossible to keep running. Not to mention the earlier date models chambered in .44mag would just be outclassed by a wheel gun, in both reliability and availability. The “new” models chambered in .50AE would be impossible to find ammo for, so you’d essentially have a shiny paperweight.

[@maxwellhesher1790]

@@imnotaracistokayAnd you wouldn’t be really sacrificing much in the way of anything by just running a revolver. The most common caliber you’re going to find is probably .357 or .44, in which case the Deagle only holds 2 more rounds when chambered in .44 and 3 when chambered in .357 It’s basically useless

[@imnotaracistokay]

@@maxwellhesher1790 yuh for some reason i don't mind seeing deagle being in fallout but the other stuff... idk bout that

[@Password_Inspector]

The older fallout games had some certified classic Cold War era firearms. Idk if high tech holographic sights and all that necessarily fit, but stuff like the P90, the CAWS, FAL etc are already established in the setting. I'd much rather have stuff like the MG3, G11 and the FNC than the mess we got in Fallout 4. Anything is better than the pipe guns, really. FNV had the best line-up of firearms, most likely because Obsidian didn't go to lengths to distance Fallout from the established world and setting from before FO3.

[@bdleo300]

Old Fallout actually had normal weapons. Then Bethesda decide to make them 'retrofuturistic' like everything else in their Fallout. Just look at their robots, ridiculous, cartoonish bs. Bethesda don't understand Fallout universe.

[@ImXs1p3r]

I don't actually mind 1 or 2 janky homemade pistol or rifles or shotguns. It would fit in the universe of scavengers trying to make and repair stuff out of garbage. They should be low level weapons with low reliability, the kind of stuff a noob starts out with lvl 1 and the lowest lvl npcs.

[@Chraan]

@@bdleo300 It seems that you do not understand the Fallout universe. Robots always had the 50s style in the Fallout series. Mister Handy and Robobrain, which exist in all Fallout iterations, never changed design. The sentry bot even looked more "ridiculous, cartoonish" in the classic games compared to Fallout 4.

[@imrippingthefuckingheadoff]

@@bdleo300lol oldhead mad

[@BioClone]

@@bdleo300 This is funny because I can count between 9 and 10 fireweapons in Fallout 2 that could get counted as "normal" (2 of em being prototypes that never gone into production) and the game has more than the double of weapons (not counting throwables)

[@thegreatgoobert5847]

My theory as to why fallout 4s weapons look so bad is that theyre built with the revamped power armour system in mind. Like why else would they make all of the guns so cartoonishly huge if they werent made for 7 foot tall robot suits? And honestly i think a way to prevent this wouldve been to just make power armour specific weapons. And im not saying that if your using power armour you cant use a pistol, but i think theyre shouldve been a heavy weapons bonus when wearing one.

[@enthusiasticallydry]

they should’ve just put a little tag at the start then like the “t60 assault rifle” or… idk i’m not far enough in to f4 to know all the guns

[@anonecki]

​@@enthusiasticallydryNah, that's about it as far as guns go in FO4

[@thehelldoicallthis9241]

I've realized that the thing that bothers me about modern gun mods, including the ones shown here is that most modders always make them in pristine condition. The fact that supposedly old guns show no signs of scuff from hard usage on long trips across the wasteland is why modern gun mods always seem out of place to me.

[@NukeTheOG]

Well that's where texture packs come in

[@fithianmt7468]

I also think there is a distinct difference between "modern" which could be guns from the 80s to 2000s. versus the more immediate 2010s modern "tacticool" operator, every surface has attachment rails and velcro stuff that I think does not fit in fallout whatsoever.

[@Imarealzombi]

well most of thoses guns are ported from games like mw so you cant really expect the textures to look post apocalyptic

[@declanroberts8934]

@@fithianmt7468 Yea in FNV modding I love that mix of uzis, FN Fals and SPAZ 12s but then mixing in old revolvers and shotguns which are historical today. I understand why Fallout doesn't name guns as it makes it too period specific. But the Fallout 3 Assault rifle and Chinese Assault Rifle were good. They didn't need to name them but you knew what they were based off of. These new assault rifles and combat shotguns are just pathetic. And they look plain wrong.

[@TheDapperSaint]

@@fithianmt7468 This right here. There's a fine line difference which is why a lot of modern gun mods do not feel right in my playthroughs. I liked the All-American or the Fal cause they weren't over the top and felt in place. Even adding these back into Fallout 4 feels right since we have other guns like hunting rifles and submachine guns that don't look as retro. My only complaint with the video is that it highlights some of the weapons like the assault or combat rifle, but excludes ones like the handmade or smg that are very much so more in line with traditional weapons. These types bridge the gap between the two art directions and make certain weapons that aren't "tacticool" look out of place. Tldr: modders please stop adding 5 laser sights and velcro all over your guns please.

[@K2niarDneK]

I think there's a difference between 'Modern' guns and 'Tacti-cool' guns. Most 'modern' guns, especially IRL guns in the Fallout games pre-Fo4, are all actually about 30 years old, if not older. Here's a few examples using popular firearms in the modding scene: - The M249 SAW, which was in Fallout Tactics; is from the mid-1980s, which is just over 40 years now. - The HK G3, otherwise known as the 'Assault Rifle' in Fallout 3, has been in service since 1959; *64* years ago. - The FN P90 is one of the newer ones, but even that entered service in 1990; making it over 30 years old. - The M16 family of rifles, which is the Service Rifle and Assault Carbine are based on, are from the mid-1960s; 50 years old. - The Colt 933, which is the basis for the Marksman Carbine, is also a newer one from 1995; over 30 years ago (though I don't like this one specifically, more on that below). - The AK-47, -M and -74; which are the basis for the Handmade Rifle, are from 1949, 1959 and 1974; making them 74, 64 and 52 years old respectively. Guns I _DO NOT_ think fit are anything made during after the 1990s, and _looks_ like they were made then. Its why I'm fine with the P90, but not the Colt 933. These are guns I call 'tacti-cool' weapons. Guns like the HK416, the aforementioned Colt 933, the AAC Honey Badger, the FN SCAR family or the HK UMP.

[@ElliFong]

I like to think on the Colt 933/Marksman Carbine are actually postwar creation by NCR and Gunrunners rather than pre-war weapon.

[@razgriz4118]

You’re going off how old those guns are now vs how old they were when each game released, which gets touched on in the video.

[@boogie1434]

Didn't the bombs drop in 2076? the Scar doesn't fit the setting but plasma/laser weapons do?

[@K2niarDneK]

@@boogie1434 There was a timeline split. There are a bunch of inconsistencies throughout history, but the major one was the US putting their entire R&D into the utilization of nuclear energy shortly following WW2. That research eventually brought about the invention of the Microfusion Cell, which was then immediately weaponized into Laser and Plasma weapons. Ballistic weapons also obviously got some development and innovation, because it's the US of course they put the rest of their money into guns, but not to nearly the same degree as we did because they had more pressing matters. The SCAR is a relatively modern rifle _by our standards,_ in a world where the US didn't get completely sidetracked by the shiny new energy source. The Fallout world might've eventually gotten our ballistic arsenal, but by the time that may have happened it would've been rendered obsolete by the innovations in Energy and Plasma weapons.

[@K2niarDneK]

@@ElliFong J.E. Sawyer has stated that it was a pre-war Paratrooper rifle. The reason it was in the Mojave was because of its proximity to Nellis AFB.

[@noneedtoknow07]

I'm surprised by the lack of crossbows and bow/arrow options for weaponry in game.

[@redactedgamersgd1788]

best we got is the syringer pipe gun, but that one's even more situational than the cryro thrower

[@twinzzlers]

Probably because they're worthless, ammo is easy to coke by for most wastelanders and they rarely ever need to use stealth (except for the Railroad and Legion). Plus you'd either need to find wood (which is scarce) or steel (also rare) to make them

[@ghastlybespoke9541]

they have then in 76 but theyre kinda shit so no one uses them

[@Clicint]

​@@twinzzlers They could have some use for isolated groups or for hunters who don't want to draw any attention. Lots of raiders/ghouls/mutants out there.

[@dd11111]

Yes! The fact that The Legion never had crossbows is a crying shame!

[@AlacerCheerful]

The Fallout community's obsession with "lore-friendly" in weapons aesthetic was due to Todd Howard insistence towards a MORE COMICAL 50s retrofuturism in Fallout 4. I can't help but notice that the recent entry was more hyper-stylized than New Vegas or even Fallout 3 retrofuturism. New Vegas doesn't shy away from using CM733 (Colt Commando) and M4A1 with ACOG because in my theory, the devs try to balance retrofuturism and realism. Not just stuck in 50s retrofuturism but also try to mix in 60s, 70s, and maybe even 80s retrofuturism. So, guns up to the early 90s should be acceptable in Fallout universe. Albeit, without those picatinny rails.

[@brendontruong7127]

I'm totally fine with modern guns and tacticool stuff. It just looks kinda weird when you see a pristine gun or gear set in a world where that level of maintenance is not the most important thing. You just have to make sure the gun doesn't jam and your gear is reasonably organized and stay intact long enough to probably keep you alive in a gun fight.

[@brothatscrazy3418]

This is realistically my only gripe with modern gun mods. I would personally love for most of them to be beat to shit, have junk parts, wood furniture and etc rather than be this pristine freshly milled weapon. But they make them on their own time/dime so they are free to do as they see fit.

[@the_dapper_stormtrooper9302]

And thats why modern guns that do exist in universe work. Because they look beat to shit and arnt shiny as all hell

[@unoriginalperson72]

​@@the_dapper_stormtrooper9302 that's why most people are sick of the modded guns, they're all too clean

[@firedeath1154]

@@unoriginalperson72 Yea, in a world with guns that look like they are only held together by a roll of duct tape and an intense regimen of thoughts and prayers, seeing a pristine MP5 that rolled right off the assembly line 3 seconds ago doesnt make too much sense. FNV can kinda get away with it because of the Gun Runners, but FO4 not so much. Maybe if there were dirty beat to shit variants of the guns which showed up in level lists, and you could produce the brand new ones from that one Workshop DLC machine, that would be a good tradeoff i think.

[@supergoodadvice853]

Sorry for everyone in the comments section, but that is an absurd complaint. In a wasteland, gun maintenance would be of bigger concern than a modern society. Why would people stop maintaining their weapons? Cleaning a gun when you have free time is a simple process. Only lazy, dirty people think guns would get so dirty easily.

[@ComXDude]

Personally, I think that Vietnam-era weapons are the ideal aesthetic for Fallout's traditional firearms, while sticking with an Atomic Age sci-fi aesthetic for the energy-based weapons, to give a nice combination of aesthetics that are near-enough together that they wouldn't clash (assuming they have competent artists to combine the overall art direction beyond just the scope of weaponry), while still giving each a clear identity of its own. The setting is also futuristic enough that you can modernize the weapons with things like laser and holographic sights, tracking and night vision scopes, and the like, so long as they are still unified with the base weapon aesthetic. Currently, despite retconning the guns' art direction to be rooted very heavily in that Atomic Age retro-futurism, it honestly feels like the modern Fallout weapons have lost more identity than they've gained, because they didn't fully commit to it fully nor even seem to have specified their vision beyond "50s-ish". Energy weapons in particular struggle on this front, and really always have.

[@nickblood7080]

nah 80's to mid 90's

[@thenneklkt7786]

The problem with modern firearms isn't that they don't exist in the Fallout universe, but more that the models used by firearm mods are simply too clean and tidy for the apocalyptic setting. It's why I can't ever use mods like the G3 one by subleader. These modded weapons always look like they've just come off an assembly line.

[@randomlyentertaining8287]

Depends on if you consider Tactics canon. Bethesda doesn't but that's them.

[@SmittyWJManJensen]

I have the power of mods, canon can be whatever I want.

[@garnetbezanson1404]

Keep in mind new firearms are produced by the gun runners constantly.

[@thenneklkt7786]

@@garnetbezanson1404 That's an explanation for West Coast games exclusively. In the situation of 3 and 4, someone would have had to purchase a Gun Runner product as far west as at least Nevada, and then carried it across the central wastes of the US to the east coast, all without scratching the damn thing. More realistically, any firearms produced by the Gun Runners that ended up in the Capital Wasteland or Commonwealth would have instead travelled by accident, changing hands several times through trade and violence., until they by chance travelled far enough east. That process would take years, probably over a decade, and the firearm wouldn't be mint when it arrived. It's not impossible for a mint condition firearm to be found on the East Coast, just ridiculously improbable; 1 in 1000 or thereabouts.

[@seantaylor8114]

​@@thenneklkt7786 Given that Fallout 4 is set after New Vegas, it's not entirely implausible that the Gun Runners could have started expanding eastward over the intervening years and set up a Boston franchise.

[@CarlSlime]

In the Fallout Timeline, the biggest defense contractor/advanced weapons research company called West Tek wasn't founded until 2002. They started researching the tech that would go on to be Power armor, railguns, laser weapon technology, etc. That feels to be like the best chronological divergence point for firearms, as its the biggest major change in all the post-WW2 Fallout events, so I keep all of my firearms as close to pre-2002 as possible, with maybe a few years after for leniency.

[@kassandraofodyssey6475]

A good way to introduce “modern weapons” imo is to retro-fy it. Like make the design look slightly more retro-futuristic, wood furnishings, etc. Deathloop has an awfully modern looking sniper rifle in its game, and yet it still fits the 60s aesthetic. But sometimes they don’t need to be. Take the AMR and the Marksman Rifle, they look like they already fit the style of the franchise!

[@cyborg_v271]

I agree, If I had the time or expertise to mod I would probably add a bunch of relatively modern guns, but with covers and furnishings that fit the retro futursitc vibe of the aesthetics, think the stylings of corvega, or red rocket, just on your gun. A few could even have corporate logos on, I think it fits the americana pride and corpratised culture that was present at the end. Of course thats just my idea

[@hrtic964]

Yeah There are already a bunch of modern guns which qualify as retro-futuristic looking. Like the Russian ADAR, which is a civilian M4 variant with a wooden handguard and a wooden one-piece stock + grip. The only rail it has is the top rail.

[@smokedbeefandcheese4144]

This is pretty much how it has always been done anyone who is confused with this concept just needs to look at the 10 mm pistol the 12.7 mm and the various other guns of fallout one and two. They are obviously a lot of conventional weapons with sci-fi additions.

[@Brapgod]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[@ghostcrab6956]

I feel like the 80's is the perfect cut-off point. The 80's was a time where firearm design was really starting to transition from traditional Vietnam / WW2 era design into modern firearms design as we know it today. It would make the existence of guns like the M249 and P90 seem a lot more reasonable compared to the cut-off point being the 60's or 70's. It would also be a good way to explain things such as reflex sights and lasers since that was when they really started to become popularized. It would also explain why the Marksman Carbine has rails on it since the Picatinny rail was designed in the late 80's.

[@Voucher765]

The 80s era is actually what brought us the modern of firearms that we know now, The 3 rd burst M16A2 was introduced and the MP5 was also popular with private security companies and special ops.

[@kellyalger2394]

Plus fallout could benefit from some of the weird guns of the 80s like the calico, be it a firearm or an energy weapon. Either way, the asthetic would work to keep it sci-fi

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

That means stuff like the P90, MP5, AUG, etc are lore friendly (some of them even exist in the games, and not FO4 but earlier)

[@juancarlos-uv4lh]

I think modern weapons do have a place in fallout just not exactly as we have them, I would love for alternate history game's like fallout to use weapon concepts or prototypes that failed on our timeline and put them in the game

[@Quickdrawingartist]

Hmm, thought the Picatinny rail system was made in the early 2000. The more you learn.

[@yocapo32]

The problem with modern weapons in Fallout is that plastic doesn't really _exist_ anymore, since there's basically little to no crude oil on Earth even before the bombs fell, which is a big part of the backstory of the original games. Hell, you can actually see it for yourself in-game too, any weapons that use polymer or plastic in their construction is either given only to the elite foot soldiers of a faction, or explicitly said to be produced pre-war or even in the 20th century, in the case of the Desert Eagle.

[@colbycoolby1592]

*Looks at the prolific laser and plasma weapons tha use massive amounts of plastic, looks back at the semi-modern rifles (that require far less of the same materials) of pre-fallout 4* Ok

[@yocapo32]

@@colbycoolby1592 If you can't tell the difference between plastic and painted steel, that's on you. And if you actually read what I posted, you'll see I did say there _are_ weapons that use plastic and rubber in Fallout, but they are rare and either extremely low production, or explicitly made before the oil crisis.

[@colbycoolby1592]

But that doesn't stop the fact that everyone in the capital wasteland at least had a AK or G3. Admittedly I'll concede and agree, I love wood furniture on firearms. But the fact is that polymer built rifles were being built until the battle of Anchorage.

[@weybye91]

@@colbycoolby1592 ok einstein, why did amarica get so many fucking AKs during the vietnam war? ohhhh right troops took them with them home, dont you think they did the same during the war with China you muppet?

[@MotoMoto-el2dy]

This doesn't excuse a singular thing at all really it's not like every rifle before polymers had a giant fucking water tube on them

[@SusiFer667]

8:40 tbf This poll did not answer the question "What does the Fallout community think about modern weapons in Fallout games?" It answered the question "What does the ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy community think about modern weapons in Fallout games?" So that's a weak argument for what the Fallout community thinks about modern weapons.

[@guillermocalvillo4915]

One thing that baffles me is that the M1911 pistol is a staple in the first two World Wars, and was still in use despite being somewhat outdated. Why Bethesda didn't at least include the 1911 is beyond me.

[@andryuu_2000]

(Which is in NV)

[@Redeemer121]

​@@andryuu_2000yep

[@evil1st]

I actually like the 10mm pistol but I think your first weapon in Fallout 4 should have been a 1911. At least there are plenty of mods to bring it back into the game.

[@battlesheep2552]

​@@andryuu_2000only with Honest Hearts, tbf

[@toasteronleg]

​@@battlesheep2552while not a true 1911, the base game does have the m1911's 9mm cousin the browning hi power. So I just even in the base the m1911 is still present in some way

[@bigdapramirez6157]

I like the idea of modern weapons being in place of the stock ones, but I wish they had a more battle worn appearance to fit the wasteland environment more

[@nikola2142s2]

i think just have some junk attachment like rust may fit abit too not all gun have advance attachment

[@khirasier]

there are a few that actually have wear and tear or improvised attachments but yea they are a minority in these gun mods

[@daveinthemicrowave]

This, seeing the pristine straight out of the factory guns ruins the immersion. Even just a few scrapes and just a little bit of grime will go along way.

[@nicholascauton9648]

Personally as a compromise, I’d like this with the eventual need to clean/maintain the weapon’s full functionality. Kinda like how 3 and New Vegas had a condition system where the weapon in question degrades over time with constant use. And because of that, you have to find the somewhat rare weapon repair kits to keep your weapon going.

[@daveinthemicrowave]

@@nicholascauton9648 The lack of weapon condition and repairing is a major downgrade in fallout 4

[@hytalefanboi7471]

For me the modern guns in NV had the advantage of instantly being recognized as endgame gear.

[@povotaknight2063]

It works in new Vegas because by the time you have a modern firearm, it's late game, while early game is stuff like the service rifle.

[@Pebbleguy]

2:54 I love how between Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics they added the XL70E3 but in the process gave them two different rifles Fallout 2 has the L85, Fallout Tactics has the EM-2 rifle

[@brandonmurphy3324]

I think the All American is way more lore friendly then the industrial boiler we got for a assault rifle in fallout 4. Thanks for all the likes everyone never had this many before.

[@demonic_myst4503]

Yea its apart the lore the colt m16 and m4 lines were used in the 20 century but replaced by the r91 which is a h&k g3 even its original dev file name was g3 riffle basicly like irl militery do tests to replace their standard riffle every now and then america did one a year of two back now the m16 is being replaced irl atm in fallout h&k won these trials and replaced colt as the militeries suplieir

[@andryuu_2000]

Bethesda usually suck at consistency

[@Mestari1Gaming]

Fallout 4 assault rifle is still a really cool weapon.

[@demonic_myst4503]

@@Mestari1Gaming its horific mess of an abomination

[@Mestari1Gaming]

@@demonic_myst4503 To some yes, to others like me it's really cool and unique looking.

[@zondazerda2230]

I personally install modern guns only if they fit in Fallout, so G3s, FN FAL, RPDs, AKs and anything that has wood in it. I respect the people who install the other modern guns but why turning a game that is set in the futuristic 50s into a Dollar store COD?

[@doow11]

That's about how i see it, the time it was made doesn't really matter to me as long as it just fits the look of the game. I personally don't like seeing much polymer furniture in fallout, but I'd say it just comes down to the artstyle of the fallout game in question.

[@auserneamebetween6and31let9]

It looks cool, and you get to play something resembling CoD without interacting with the players.

[@eamonfitzmartin998]

Agreed. The cutoff point for me is the mid 80s or so, so like M16A2s and M733 AR-15s. Picatinny rails aren't canon in my mind. The Marksman carbine isn't canon in my mind.

[@reyis_here945]

I don't understand why but this doesn't just alter real-world guns to fit the Fallout theme

[@Jacurutu]

How is the world ending in 2077 1950's?

[@dannymunch4633]

The older Fallout were so fun because name dropping was a none issue. Like the description for the Vindicator Minigun (I really would like descriptions to come back): "The German Rheinmetall AG company created the ultimate minigun. The Vindicator throws over 90,000 caseless shells per minute down its six carbon-polymer barrels. As the pinnacle of Teutonic engineering skill, it is the ultimate hand-held weapon."

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

It's interesting how the guns are the same, but manufacturers are changed. Like how HK designed the P90 and 10mm SMG in the Fallout timeline, despite FN and the FAL existing. And the plasma rifle is made by Winchester.

[@MrSomebodyStrange]

For me a perfect example of a Fallout gun would be the Winchester City-Killer combat shotgun. It's both fictional, but grounded in reality since the gun isn't real, but Winchester is a real brand, the design is both futuristic and retro which is achieved by making it a bull-pup mag-fed shotgun with what looks like black polymer furniture and smooth tube-like receiver. Hell, they even added the heat shield and a cheek rest into the design. It's not an overdesigned nightmare, it's not a tube gun, it doesn't look like something your great-grandfather brought back from Iwo Jima, and it's both slick and utilitarian without any useless junk

[@SamuraiPie8111]

the "Assault Rifle" would make more sense as a belt fed machine gun. it even appears to have magazine slots on both sides, which indicates it could have been intended to be a vehicle mounted weapon.

[@Chopstorm.]

It was intended to be one actually, though I'm not sure about the belt fed part. It was supposed to be a weapon that would fit for power armor, but was changed to the standard assault rifle last minute.

[@sufferingincorporatedtm1781]

if it were belt or box fed with proper physics in the animations it would be so much cooler

[@MrChickennugget360]

it could have been called the "power armor assault rifle" and been chambered in a heavy caliber. it may have been developed as a rifle intended for use with power armor soldiers.

[@jPlanerv2]

@@Chopstorm. Yep there was even separate model for assalut rifle but was never used in game an this lmg thing took its place

[@TheRedKing247]

It was actually originally supposed to be an LMG that would be used like an AR by Power armored troops, but for some reason they didn't want any "machine guns" in the game so they called it an AR. It's much better in that role though.

[@doc6084]

The thing that bugs me about the mods isn’t the guns themselves, but how 90% of the time they look fresh out of the box… like they haven’t been through literally 200+ years of wear and tear…

[@Cruor34]

They haven't had 200 years of wear and tear. As he said in the video you need to zip your lips if you have not played all the games. The NCR has electricity, running water, police, fire, medial, schools, work, vehicles AND produces new guns from old blueprints. In addition, the Gun Runners produce brand new guns from old blueprints. Seriously, get over the old graphics and play the older (better) games. Running vehicles exist, as do carvans pulled by Brahmin. If you can do 30 miles a day you can cross the USA in ~100 days. Bam modern guns on the East Coast. In addition, we have not explored the full USA< so who is to say there isn't an area in the South East with a running factory making guns?

[@doc6084]

@@Cruor34 at what point did I bring up the old games??? I never said anything about them, 3 and NV are my favorite in the series with 2 not far behind it? And yeah I get that there are factories making guns and that the NCR is pretty well established. But even then those guns would be extremely rare. Its not like they have 100s of factories running, on top of that the material cost would be absurd. Theres more to manufacturing than just inputting blueprints. You need steel, and not all of it can just be recycled. You can’t just melt down all the scrap you find. You need it to be 100% steel, especially if you are trying to make high powered weapons because it needs to withstand the pressure of the cartridge. Not to mention you are definitely going to need smelt all of the steel again because of the excessive oxidation over that length of time, and that’s just the steel that’s actually salvageable. There’s limited amount of materials to make all of this. Unless they magically figured out how to synthesize new chemicals to treat and make new steel, when they are still somewhat struggling keeping up things like the Hoover damn. Not to mention mining operations for raw ore. There’s so much more to making all of this. There’s a reason the firearms and even the ammunition is so insanely expensive.

[@Cruor34]

@@doc6084 Well, it's a game, so they could find a way to make more guns. By realism logic, there are WAAAY too many raiders, they outnumber the population of "good" people in the towns. But if they didn't, who would you shoot? The game would be boring if 90% of the raiders/gunners had melee weapons or single shot guns. In Fallout 2 you have Press Gangs, Tech gangs, etc all armed to the teeth with high end weapons.

[@doc6084]

@@Cruor34 I think you may have misunderstood my comment, I’m not saying I want raggedy pipe guns. I’m 100% down with modern guns, like the Chinese assault rifle, BAR, browning, etc. It’s not the guns themselves, it’s how they are completely spotless, and they look like they just came off the shelf. I guess an example of what I would want to see more of would be like if you had an AR where maybe I he barrel shroud was cranked and was welded in a few spots, and maybe a muzzle break that looks homemade not milled, different tones in metal, stuff like that. I like the guns themselves I just want them to fit the world they are in. Busted and broken, but held together

[@matthewjones39]

And most of them have animations that are way too “tactical.”

[@SoulofSquibs]

The handmade rifle is a perfect example of both a modern gun and a gun that fits well in the new fallout games like 4 and 76

[@SSD_Penumbra]

Except it's based on the AK platform, which was invented in 1947, making it a JUST post-ww2 weapon. It's also lore friendly, as the Chinese used AK-Style weapons in Ancorage and in fallout 3, the Chinese Assault Rifle is a just an AK-74. Also, it's not polymer based. The AK platform relies more on stamped metal and wooden furniture and remained that way until the mid 70s where it was changed.

[@CourierSiix]

"Modern"

[@powersky1678]

@@nevetsnotlrac7624 except that is just wrong. The AK platform definitely does exist as shown in Fallout 3 where the “Chinese rifle” is 100% based on an AK of some sort. And Fallout 3 is 100% lore friendly so your logic is very broken. You clearly haven’t played the older titles

[@AScottish-AustralianM-84]

​@@nevetsnotlrac7624 Counter argument. In Fallout 1 and 2 the assault rifle is known as the AK-112 while it isn't based on any real world AK rifle it does show that the AK platform does exist in the Fallout universe.

[@vulpesdecinere972]

@@powersky1678 The Chinese Assault Rifle isn't an AK. It's actually an odd copy of a Degtyarev (RPD) with a box magazine and gas tube on top instead of the bottom.

[@irishdc9523]

I reckon the 2000s is the cut-off point for peak firearms development. In FO's timeline, oil starts becoming so scarce, it erupts into the Resource Wars in 2052. If oil was becoming so scarce that entire superpowers were willing to go to war over it, it suggested that they would've started to ration their supply to the essentials at least a decade prior. Considering that some of FONV assault rifles still use plastic, we can estimate that Peak Oil was maybe around the 2010s, before oil started getting more scarce and they had to begin small scale rationing like plastics and they move to alternatives (like wood furniture for the Service Rifle)

[@Mister-kq7pk]

I think the biggest problem with the guns in Fallout 4 is the lack of unique weapons. For instance, in Fallout 76 you can find unique variations of weapons everywhere which look different and might act diffrent, or you get completely unique weapons like That Gun. But in Fallout 4 there is a significant drop in unique weapons. For instance Kellogs pistol, which becomes iconic because Kellog and his gun are one of the first things we see, doesn't have any unique features to it and is just a 44 revolver with a legendary stat. Edit: whoops meant Fallout New Vegas.

[@FloofMother]

I like the fallout 4 legendary system, but I prefer 76’s implementation of it with multiple stars. I think that unique legendary enchantments for static guns like big boy and old reliable are good though, and I think they should have special models for them. There is a mod for four that specifically does this

[@Vince-wm7zk]

I hate fallout 4 give us the Theme of fallout 3 and new vagus back

[@faded1887]

@@Vince-wm7zkthe gameplay of fallout 4 but with the story elements of new vegas

[@cerving20]

@@FloofMotherdo you remember what it’s called?

[@FloofMother]

@@cerving20 I searched “unique” or “unique weapons” in the fallout 4 nexus. Give me a minute and I’ll find it

[@Thedoomdude100]

They did include the G11 in 1998 which was being tested only a little after the fall of the Soviet Union so that's an experimental weapon that was considered incredibly advanced at the time. Though around that time the Block I SOPMOD package for the M4 was being issued to SOF personnel.

[@wisemankugelmemicus1701]

Other "modern" weapons include the FN-FAL, Desert Eagle, P90, and Pancor Jackhammer That being said, I disagree with the uploader on the MCX specifically. Fallout's universe never had microchips so the idea of having a computer rangefinder optic is ridiculous.. However the gun its self is perfectly plausible in Fallout.

[@BigPanda096]

​@@wisemankugelmemicus1701 Fallout universe has small targeting computers.

[@Buttsmcgee069]

@@BigPanda096 While true, they are debatably “less” advanced when compared to our current ones.

[@williamwinder5011]

If memory serves they used the G11 as a laser rifle in the movie Demolition Man

[@gabrielinostroza4989]

I don't think you'd see certain weapons like the M7 because it's clear modern computers were used to design it, there's a "digital" feel to guns that have extremely optimized weight and stress distribution like that, not to mention the very modern digital sight. ACR era guns like the G11, or even the OICW however still had that retro bulk that fits great with a world like Fallout.

[@Медведь-ж3с]

they have teleportation but they couldn’t come up with an MP7 ? dude cmon

[@bananacheese6864]

@@Медведь-ж3с its called art direction, theres a reason none of the modern day weapons even remotely fit fallout 4, not because they couldnt exist but because it wouldnt fit the style

[@tails4944]

​@@Медведь-ж3сthe microchip doesn't exist in the lore, so everything should be analog/vacuum tube style tech. That's what give FO the "'50's" look.

[@Masterchief0521]

You took what I wanted to say and made it legible.

[@Drave_Jr.]

@@Медведь-ж3с Fallout went heavy into Nuclear energy, so they have the raw power, but without transistors it's all big and bulky.

[@beelzebub7221]

something i never understood about fallout 4's weapons is that, in-lore the entire globe was going through a MASSIVE resource crisis. too many people, materials were running scarce due to over-production, it was almost impossible to find any natural resource because everyone was just tearing through the planet like it's a game of DRG with over 10 bil+ people running it. so why is it that despite all this "scarcity" and war, do the guns have to be so bulky and obnoxious? like, IRL in times of war, firearms such as the grease gun were mass-produced because they were cheap, easy, and efficient as fuck. In the game though, we have guns like the fucking "assault rifle" and laser rifle being standard issue firearms for soldiers going to war. both of these weapons (in fo4) are extremely bulky, inefficient, expensive, 25-pound masses of solid steel and electronics that would likely be extremely difficult to produce en-masse. so why do they exist to begin with? and why are they so god-awful? bethesda, what the fuck are you doing?

[@byron2FZ]

Laser rifles aren't the standard issue for pre-war soldiers

[@LeePelagius]

I think the problem is they tried to distance from the art style created by the old concept designer who passed away so much that they ended up making it feel uncomfortably different to the established style

[@mikeyreza]

Yeah, if Fallout 1 had retro futuristic guns, it wouldn't really be an issue. Honestly, it'd make MORE sense than the game having modern guns, because the bombs dropped in 2077, not in 2001 or whenever. However, Fallout 4 has gone in a completely different direction and caused a lot of inconsistency. Retconning is okay until you're just destroying good writing and design.

[@zerogbot23]

@@mikeyreza The vietnam era weaponry makes a lot of sense actually as it was around that time in lore that resources started drying up so outfitting your armies with weapons you already had a lot of instead using precious resources to make expensive energy werapons makes a lot of sense. It's why only the best of the best were given power armour and energy weapons. The US in lore was slowly starving and couldn't afford to outfit its troops with modern equipment so it recycled the old which was still very capable of killing.

[@loc27gth44]

This !

[@loc27gth44]

The designer from interplay passed away?

[@LeePelagius]

@@loc27gth44 not sure if he was also there in the interplay era but he was the main designer on fallout 3 ik that much for sure

[@potetobloke4731]

Fallout 1, 2 and Tactics might be a good starting point on what to include. The G11 does fit fairly nicely, and has that retro-futuristic look.

[@daegnaxqelil2733]

no way , that was too out of place.

[@Peagaporto]

This is my metric, 80's gun tech and aesthetics are in.

[@RazorToaster]

G11 fits perfectly in fallout.

[@daegnaxqelil2733]

@@Peagaporto not really

[@РоманАндреев-в4з]

No Tactics tho. They were driving Humvees and shit, while original 2 games treated 1950s inspired Highwayman as top of the line in cars, half of modern day weapons shown in the vid are also from tactics, while OG Fallouts treated 1980s Sci-Fi prototypes as just that, extremely rare prototype weapons for late game

[@facepunch3554]

To me best gun aesthetic example is 10mm pistol and 10mm machine gun form fallout 3. Those have this "modern" look, but also retro futuristic vibe as well. You totally did not mention any laser or plasma powered guns which fit questionably with normal looking AKs and ARs. 10mm pistol/ machine gun in my opinion get this ideally.

[@Cruor34]

You clearly don't like guns in real life. The 10mm pistol/SMG design is idiotic. You want a gun to be clean and light, they are both bulky for no reason except to look good to a child's eyes, or to someone with the intellect of one. They have no functional purpose. kzbin.info/www/bejne/joe5iWqwpc6WesV1ll 0:57 what IS all that crap on the gun? Why is it so massive? a gun needs is a trigger and a magazine release, and maybe a rail for attachments. It doesn't need the bulk, dials, textures, slots, hooks etc those guns have on them. The 10mm pistol in Fallout 4 is enormous, it's literally the size of a large toaster if someone put a handle on one. It's super ugly and makes no sense. Also the laser/plasma weapons look awful, they looked much better in Fallout 2. Even by the games lore, energy weapons had JUST been invented before the nukes came down, they were like the STG 44 of world war 2 (I'll wait while you look that one up) So why would those energy weapons alter the look of gunpowder based weapons? I really can't stand people who started with 3 and think they know it all. I highly doubt it will happen, but it is my sincere hope that in Fallout 5, we will have realistic looking guns and you minority who like the ugly Bethesda Frankenstein guns will have to wait for a year plus for someone with the time and skill to make a gun mod for your tastes. As stated in the video, and by download count, gun mods are the most popular mods there are, yes even more popular than the mods making the women 38-26-44 so clearly a lot of people are with me on this.

[@Mr-Galaxy]

Running around in fallout 3 Zeta mother ship with a Chinese assault rifle (AK) looks fine

[@gorganfredman5363]

Bethesda used 10mm pistol and SMG designs from Fallout 1 and 2

[@facepunch3554]

@@gorganfredman5363 10mm smg has some resemblance, but 10mm pistol is totally different, it is revolver type of handgun in f1, while in f3 it is more of a modified desert eagle

[@Cruor34]

@@gorganfredman5363 Yeah and they were bad then too. They were from a overhead game. Fallout 2 made massive improvements over Fallout 1 in gun design, why take a step back? Also, although ugly the 10mm pistol was not so massive, they made it too big in the 1st person games.

[@abraham_a]

I always thought older Fallouts from pre-Bethesda era had less accent on the 50s aesthetic. I remember the futuristically gothic style of buildings

[@AusFirewing]

Personally I think the primary divergence point with Fallout's guns should be in electronics in attachments. With the lack of miniaturization present in Fallout, it would be very rare to find something like an IR laser, or rangefinder, or any kind of computerized tech. And rarer still that you'd be able to find the parts to keep something like that running in a post-apocalypse.

[@WolfJarl]

Especially given that nuclear blasts aren't exactly good for high-grade electronics due to high-altitude detonations generating EMPs.

[@jmjedi923]

That's a really good point, I never thought of that!

[@deathdealer312]

Given the look and bulkiness of the pipboy, this is probably where the cutoff should be. Any gun would be fine, its the modern attachments that would be weird. I mean, the laser rifles of Fallout 1/2 look pretty futuristic, so its conceivable that the verse would have some modern-ish weapons.

[@Steelion69]

The wild thing is that the Marksman Carbine doesn't actually use a picatinny rail - but instead it's 80's prognitor; a weaver rail. Not forgetting it is supposed to be based on the older pre-M4 Colt Carbines (i.e the Model 733) in a pseudo-2000s style-but-with-80s-gear tacticalism.

[@kagenlim5271]

Issue is? The marksman uses a 10.5 inch commando barrel, which wasnt really a thing until the 00s. A better fit would be a m4 14.5 inch profile or a government 12.5

[@citizenvulpes4562]

I'm not a gun nut, I just like when metal stick go boom

[@rimanahbvee]

​@@kagenlim5271 i think so yeah, the vietnam ARs had some short barrels

[@invasor-x]

I think they belong in setting, but they should be slighty modified to better represent the setting A detail about the ballistic guns that seems pretty consisten through fallout 1, 2 and tactics is that most of them have some form of wood furniture, even if their real life counterpart doesnt have any (like the panco jackhammer), this is also why the gauss weapons have wood furniture since they where originally ballistic weapons in classic fallout So yeah, put modern weapons but dont make them use too many polymers, just use metal and wood

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

The assault rifle in Fallout 3 is the perfect example. It looks like an early G3, but with the food furniture form the CETME. A combination that didn't exist that way, but is believable enough. Same for the New Vegas service rifle as wood AR-15 or the Fallout 4 handmade rifle. Now the Fallout 4 "assault rifle" is more like a tripod mounted LMG that the player somehow fires from the shoulder. It even has the mounting holes for it. The Fallout 4 "combat rifle" looks like some sort of alternate reality BAR or M14. And it's actually a really good gun. It works well enough from early to late game, is versatile enough as sniper, marksman rifle and SMG, but is better in each these roles than the weapons meant for it.

[@juancarlos-uv4lh]

Yeah that's the sweet spot, oil scarcity would make plastics and polymers rare and expensive while a weapon like the service rifle is a good response

[@tangerinepaint3643]

Imagine an MCX with wood furniture

[@Prizzim]

3:05 nukaworld AK ? What happened to that

[@josejuancerdabarraza3544]

Joshua Graham's bulletproof vest is from a SWAT unit and it looks relatively modern and more tactical than the ones in vaultec based suits

[@Triaxx2]

I mostly agree with this, though honestly I think the 10mm still fits Fallout quite well. Indeed it even looks like the 14.5mm pistol from Fallout 2.

[@Triaxx2]

@@aWanderer926 Yeah, that's the one. Been seeing too many guns that have 14.5 as an option. It's also been way too long since I played F2.

[@lucanhenrique7457]

I think every gun has its problem in this game, but yeah the 10mm its awesome, and has some retro and nostalgic feel to it

[@invasor-x]

The fallout 4 10mm is way too big It looks really goofy

[@Triaxx2]

@@invasor-x Until you put it in your hand in power armor. Compare the Deliverer which has the opposite issue where it's normal sized in your hands and looks comically tiny if you use it in Power Armor.

[@DJWeapon8]

​​​​@@Triaxx2 that's the problem. Why would you give heavy infantry, capable of carrying several hundred pounds of supplies and ammunition for heavy weapons, _a pistol?_ Why would you even design new infantry guns that only power armor can carry? Why not just take your already existing and in service heavy weapons like machineguns, miniguns, missile launchers, grenade machineguns, mortars, and light anti aircraft guns, and lightly modify them so power armor can carry and fire them on the move? The 10mm pistol and even its SMG, in all of the Fallout games, is way too big to be practical in combat. As for "then the regular sized weapons would look funny when used in power armor". Yeah. I agree. And that's why I want small weapons to either be unusable or degrade 5x faster when used in power armor. Only heavy weapons like what I've listed above can be used by power armor without damaging them.

[@maboilaurence8227]

Bring me back Fallout 1's adobe buildings, tribal societies and futuristic post cold war aesthetics. Modern Fallout be like "we are all mentally stuck in 1950" and call it a day, original Fallout felt like an amalgamation of different themes, as I would expect many years after an apocalypse. It was a beautiful, dangerous fever dream, now it's nothing but a theme park.

[@morewi]

Fallout 1 is more of a post post apocalypse setting but i agree Bethesda really went hard on the 50s theme

[@looper7159]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again- the 80’s are the perfect divergence point from our world and fallout’s. As far as firearms are concerned - that gives you pretty much every gun you could think of having a “fallout” aesthetic. The G11, the desert eagle, P90, the stoner platform, the G3. Even the PSG1, AUG - the list goes on. Hell, even the MGL barely makes the cut

[@unit0137]

Well, considering the way electronics are designed in the game, it's kind of hard to assume that all of the attachments fit in. They would, at the very least, look staggeringly different, yet still function the same.

[@otterino1419]

Yea that's what I figured with some of the more tactical attachment stuff.

[@seantaylor8114]

Why is that? The reason most things are bulky in-universe is because the transistor was only recently invented when the Great War occurred, so a lot of things weren't miniaturized. Most of our modern electronic tech was possible in-universe but just hadn't yet seen wide adoption. But if anyone was going to be on the cutting edge of technological innovation, it was going to be the US military industrial complex.

[@weybye91]

@@seantaylor8114 you clearly havent either read Fallout lore or even figured out why their computers as an example and cars look so damm diffrent from our cars and PCs, cause they didnt get the transister at the same time as we did, they went neuclear, hence why all their machines dosent look like ours

[@scottjs5207]

I'd imagine Polymers is a major divergence between us and Fallout.

[@otterino1419]

@@scottjs5207 hence why most guns are made with just metal n wood I suppose

[@R77ification]

A good way to explain it previous games have always seem to be based on Cold War retrofuture while FO4 was solely based on WW2 retrofuture. F3 and NV have ARs and AKs while FO4 has alt history Lewis guns and BARs. As you said, the best way to go about it is to add modern guns but with Fallout spice on them, the RCW and Survivalist rifle being peak examples.

[@Matt_History]

Dude there's nothing at all like a BAR in 4 are you tripping? They just didn't give a shit

[@Waffleman00]

@@Matt_History the combat rifle is partially based on the BAR

[@keyboardstalker4784]

@@Waffleman00 and for some reason it has the iron sights and receiver of a PPSH.

[@dogdog357]

And 76 has an mg42 and an unfortunately cut sten, which is... something

[@Matt_History]

@@Waffleman00 there's literally nothing on it that even looks remotely like a BAR, unless you think wooden furniture counts.

[@el-fantasma21]

I always felt New Vegas was a gun nuts dream, all the ammo types, mods and weapon handling makes it feel so much more engaging for me as a gun fanatic - can "feel the steel" on them, whereas fallout 4's felt like toys - I personally think a healthy balance between the two, but definitely make weapons fit along the lines of the service rifle, clear AR weapon with a fallout twinge to it or even the G3 with wooden parts.

[@ThZuao]

Gotta say, as a gun nut on a very restrictive country, F:NV taught me a lot of things about guns. More so than Gun Jesus himself.

[@peepongdingdong9208]

Well the g3 has a real life counter part that came with wood furniture. The spanish cetme rifles have wood furniture but are chambered in 7.62 nato.

[@goochencore4128]

But doesn't FO4 have so much in terms of gun customization?

[@timhorn3829]

I think a lot of modern guns that are familiar in our world would have turned up in fallout, but would probably slight differences because of a tactical military situation that was going on in their world up to the great war and also depending on resources allocations within the United States and the western world during the time period from World War II up to 2077

[@Ginnpis]

I always thought the marksman carbine kinda stood out in new Vegas, I think around the 70’s would be a good cutoff. The service rifle is the perfect in every way

[@Umbra_Ursus]

Fallout 4, to its very limited credit, did improve on the plasma rifle: The 3/Vegas one has some sort of flip battery thing as it's ammo input, and that looks stupid, since it seems to barely be held in place. The 4 version has the plasma cell being a battery clip that plugs into the top, and actually looks secured. 4 also did the double barrel shotgun better than 3, but that's not saying much.

[@theoaky8924]

I think the aesthetic of the double barrel in fallout 3 looks alot better than the fallout 4 one. But the db in 3 only being single shot absolutely killed it for me, which is a real shame.

[@drivanradosivic1357]

@@theoaky8924 if the Double Barrel of Fallout 3 was FO4's early game break action shotgun that could be modded from a handcannon to a full length with stock and the manufactured Double Barrel is a mid game upgrade, that would be fine. I want ammo mods or ammo variants(former uses the modification station, the latter you can switch out on the fly) plus a option to do single shot fire or both barrels fire mode. Pump action and lever action shotguns would also be good to have. something like the KS23 would also be cool.

[@drivanradosivic1357]

for the Plasma Cell, agreed. I would even add back the Energy cell for the Laser pistol platforms, add a new Plasma MicroCell for Plasma Pistols, and then add the Microfusion cells for the Laser Rifles and Plasma Cells for the Plasma Rifles.

[@theoaky8924]

@@drivanradosivic1357 Oh wait, I was thinking of the far harbor dlc double barrel. I for got the sawn off early game one.

[@johnnycruelty5195]

@@theoaky8924 I think it's based on the doom 2 super shotgun

[@legoyodascream]

Fallout 2 also had the Pancor Jackhammer and H&K G11. Those prototypes were perfect for the setting. Fallout 2 also had a zip gun, but it is cut content in the files.

[@tac6557]

But neither of those are "modern guns".

[@legoyodascream]

@@tac6557 Okay? That's not what I said. I said it was great for the setting. Prototypes being mass produced, diverging history and such.

[@joshwist556]

@@tac6557They’re both more modern aesthetically than whatever the fuck is going on with Fallout 4/76.

[@battlesheep2552]

Yeah the G11 is such a Fallout gun. Space age on the outside, clock punk on the inside. Too bad caseless ammunition wouldn't fare too well with the rigors of the wasteland.

[@weenis2876]

@@tac6557the G11 was in the run to replace the G3 until the USSR collapsed, it’s absolutely a modern gun.

[@Useralex995]

Og fallout looks like retro 90s future, the 50s aspect of it was a nod to the coldwar and the threat of nuclear war.

[@LecherousLizard]

Because OG Fallouts were "How would a world of 2077 look like if the people from 1950s were to describe it and then it got nuked". In Bethesda's Fallout 1950s never ended, not even 200 years after the world got nuked.

[@loganhodge9037]

I think your weaponry can get as modern as you like as long as you choose unique guns that fit the aesthetic without standing out, as a quad rail m4a1 would stand out, the new Vegas wood furniture m16 is perfect, the British EM-2 would fit perfectly into the setting with little to no redesign, as well as maybe a steyr aug with a slight redesign to add more wood and steel rather than polymer due to in lore oil shortage.

[@CreativeUsernameHere-r1k]

Polymer was used in a lot of the original weapons in FO and FO2, now obviously the army standard should get a bit more polymer than civilian gear * sory I originaly messed this part up*

[@CreativeUsernameHere-r1k]

@NiceShootinTex Not to mention the marksman carbine and assault carbines, or the sniper rifle wich has polimer parts, just that not every gun would or should ue polymers, ee the civilian use laser tommy gun or the 12.7 mm pistol etc.

[@commscan314]

@NiceShootinTex I think it should be mid-Vietnam type stuff, wood and occasionally plastic-furnished guns with coherent self-loading rifle design.

[@garyslayton8340]

The fn fal would fit perfectly

[@AlbonitumG]

​@NiceShootinTexI played FO3 and FNV first, then FO1, and only after that - FO4. I still don't think modern (as in later than 50s) guns fit Fallout aesthetic. Besides, modern game developer can come up with plethora of new designs, not just using existing ones to cut time and effort. Still, I don't really like most of FO4 military equipment designs. There should be better looking, but made up guns, armor and vehicles.

[@trollofduty007]

This is why I love the handmade rifle in FO4, cause it’s an AK, and it’s way more aesthetically pleasing than most of the other stuff in vanilla I do typically play with some weapon mods though. MP40, M1911, Service rifle, to name a few

[@arcade3490]

I agree, I think the handmade rifle should have been the base game assult rifle

[@glidershower]

The funny thing is, they could've just reskinned the guns from FO3. In fact, there's even a mesh for the chinese rifle in one of the QA testing areas, but they never bothered to make it functional or even texture it. The handmade rifle is a saving grace, but it is kinda annoying that, as with almost all vanilla firearms, _it ejects the spent brass casings to the freaking left instead of the right._ Just what everyone wants: *piping hot brass pelting your face, lolz.*

[@sermer6659]

@@glidershower " it ejects the spent brass casings to the freaking left instead of the right" - yeah, I guess FO4 weapon designers really overplayed CS.

[@BumpyLumpy1]

i think that fallout 5 should have all the variety seen in the previous games. from wild west style guns like a revolver and lever action rifles to wacky guns like plasma rifles and Lasor weapons. to keep the gameplay interesting and fresh with all these choices. Maybe if bethesda wants to they could have modern weapons and add attachments that slightly alter the style to keep a continuous art style.

[@nowhereweareagain]

To combine some other comments here into a cohesive thought, the original fallout games have a bit of a cold war run amok aesthetic to them. There's a little 50's iconography, but it isn't super heavy in the actual games. Further the point of technological divergence in the games actually comes with the fact that they never invent the microchip, but instead invent nuclear fusion. Fallout 3 turns up the 50's vibe a bit and then fallout 4 turns till the knob breaks. Also, the marksman rifle isn't actually that games equivalent an an assault rifle. There's a carbine rifle which looks like an early 90's M4 and a battle rifle that looks like a M16 with wood furniture. The marksman rifle is implied to be very limited, you can only buy one from one specific manufacturer, who are the best fire arms dealer in the Mojave. To me that implies that the Marksman rifle is more of a prototype than anything else. So including a few more modern examples seems reasonable, but the core of the weapons roster seems like it should be cold-war era.

[@lewisanimations4954]

I'm not exactly a fan of REALLY modern weapons in Fallout but WW2 or Cold War Era Weapons just seem like a better fit to me (Though that might just be me preferring wood furnishing)

[@jimmyspace5839]

I think polymer guns should be mostly off limit except for in the case of special forces type weapons (Marksman Carbine).

[@scarydzik]

@@jimmyspace5839 What's about fallout 2 with the G11, HK CAWS, L85/L86 and probably some other plastic guns I forget?

[@jacehackworth6413]

Guns really aren’t that advanced compared to computers and screens. Guns like the AR platform or P90 being developed seem kind of inevitable by 2077. I think the way to go is have modern weapons but change some elements to be more antiquated or cheaper, like wood furniture or more primitive sights even if the real example never had that. Even though advanced polymers absolutely exist in Fallout maybe certain aspects of gun design “culture” would stagnate.

[@DJWeapon8]

​@@jacehackworth6413 less culture, more lack of resources and materials. Firearms tech progressed similarly to ours. It isn't until the later end of the 2060s where polymers would then start getting replaced with metal and wood due to resource shortages during the war.

[@jacehackworth6413]

@@DJWeapon8 military issue weapons would be for sure. The longer a war goes on the more simplified the guns get. There would be some older guns still around in private hands I think.

[@pointingsoyjak4271]

For me I think the cutoff point is picatinny rails, wood attachments, good, Bakelite attachments, even better, early polymer, outstanding, but milled aluminum pic rails are icky and don’t feel fitting to me, I think the newest gun I’d be cool with in fallout would be a 240B lmg or FN minimi.

[@negativezero8174]

I’m so sick of seeing picatinny rails. Fallout is the one place they shouldn’t be and ppl keep trying to cram it into the setting

[@KiboraVT]

Logically i would say any modern gun would fit into Fallout so long it is modeled and textured properly to show the correct amount of wear and tear 100-200 years of suboptimal care would do to such a weapon. I am not certain when the first laser or plasma weapons were developed in Fallout but that would probably be the divergent point

[@RazorToaster]

I also miss the old gothic buildings from the first 2 games, 3 and NV also missed that mark.

[@bigmanteddyhimself1913]

Tbh I like both, I dont see any reason we can't incorporate these more sci fi gunsin tandem with our contemporary ones, it adds a little flavor while keeping both aesthetics. Maybe some combinations of the two

[@tjpprojects7192]

I don't mind the style persay, but it's the comical absurdity that really pisses me off. We went from cool and function to shoddy and so damn thick that they'd be better served as weights for bench pressing rather than guns for shooting. I guarantee that if the FO4 "Assault Rifle" existed in real life, NOBODY would be able to aim it for more than 10 seconds reliably. There's a REASON that weight is one of the biggest issues that modern militaries deal with.

[@boywithcrackers3871]

I think it was breaking the lore. Mish mash of styles, inconsistency and retcons that are the main problems.

[@bigmanteddyhimself1913]

@@tjpprojects7192 thats fair, but in a world with borderlien Iron Man suits, I feel its a bit more understandable, personally I like the weird designs, maybe we could keep assault rifkes like that and make them more heavy LMG's while adding more contemporary carbines?

[@rps215]

A lot of things are missing from the game if you ask me. For example, the whole arsenal of Institute weapons were cut short. There should be proper Institute Plasma and ballistic weapons of different classes. Even if they add for example the Vector, Skorpion Evo, or FN SCAR into the Institute's arsenal, it will still fit in lore.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

A nuanced take, on a fallout video, this isn't happening ever again.

[@sebs-shenanigans]

There is an interesting parallel I want to draw your attention to. Cyberpunk 2077. The fact that NONE of the modern guns are in the game, in spite of the fact that they are highly prevalent in the lore (Johnny silverhand storms arasaka tower with people armed with Mac 10s/FALS and so on), is curious to say the least

[@gabeslist]

I could be totally mistaken because I don't know much about the lore. But could that be because the tabletop lore was written in the 80s?

[@sebs-shenanigans]

@@gabeslist Yes it was. Go on brother, you got me curious

[@kittyclaws7657]

​@@sebs-shenaniganshe probably means these guns were, in fact, modern at the time the table top was developed. Makes sense to come up with new guns for the game

[@sebs-shenanigans]

@@kittyclaws7657 were they though? FN FAL was in service for over 30 years around the time the rpg came out. Far as I know FAL was already ousted from many major militaries, with each country opting to develop their own paltform. I guess my question is. If, people of 2020 night city had Ingram Mac 10s (made in the late 70s) almost 50 years after its release, then why can't present day people of 2077 have a few weapons like G36, VHS 2, the more modern ish guns, especially people like the nomads or low level gangoons? I'm not saying that game specific guns can't be here but a very small mix of fantasy and reality (something akin to Synthetik for example) would be cooler, for me personally. Its almost like Arasaka and militech organized a country wide "Deposit your historical guns and get new shooters at a discount!"

[@kittyclaws7657]

@@sebs-shenanigans sorry, worded it completely wrong. By modern, I meant ergonomically accepted and commonly used in that era. In the 80's systems designed for weapon attachments and modifications were very much a new, in development kind of concept, comapred to what we have now. As military and fire arms tech advances, manufacturers make weapons specifically to be modified by the user and this is reflected in the game. We most likely don't have such "old" weapons in CP2077 due to them not being exactly compatible with the cyberpunk kind of attachments. Imagine trying to maunt a 2077 Holo sight on Mac-10. It's hard to maunt NATO sights on AKs, let alone future technology on old weaponry. Devs would have to design a whole range of attachments specifically for old weapons, that players would quickly abandon because let's be honest, I doubt FAL is more effective than a theoretical 2077 military issue rifle. This way this whole traditional weapons system with it's attachments would be just an early game idea players would abandon very quickly. Last thing. Some old weapons do still appear in the game in a certain form... The double barrel is still around and it has barely changed :)

[@kwc0435]

I think 60s cold war inspired guns fit the theme best

[@justbread4570]

cut off point in 2000-2020 makes total sense since realistically its not like they’d just stop making guns until energy came along before anyone points out fictional fallout guns, most look fresh out of 1970 the only ones i imagine are “modern” are the sniper rifle, city-killer and 12.7mm guns, and all of those look like stuff we would make today so probably not that close to the energy guns modern guns like the mcx spear, honey badger, origin 12, intervention and .500 magnum all match aesthetically in fallout too even the more modern tactical have a very fallout feel plus since weapon technology may have evolved faster in fallout, whos to say what the guns they’d be making about now would look (i have no source, just mere speculation)

[@justbread4570]

as i discussed with someone in the server last month: certain modern guns may never exist in fallout, in particular russian guns like the ak400, vss vintorez and saiga12, as we have no evidence russia was able to become a military powerhouse and produce the same weapons they did in our timeline and as in fallout 2 has guns like the g11, pancor jackhammer and hk caws as more than just prototypes, some guns we have may have also evolved differently or never existed due to more specific reasons not such a black and white answer

[@comunistdoggo8782]

fallout fans replacing every gun they hate with an AR platform:

[@kingdomofvinland8827]

I’d do that but with an Ak platform

[@keztannis6848]

Based tbh the guns in Fallout 4 are so ass 😂

[@jackcausey1449]

Want the old assault rifle design back

[@kingdomofvinland8827]

@@jackcausey1449 same

[@generalmcterror2718]

I’m still baffled we haven’t gotten a good Stoner 63 mod because especially in fallout 4 it’s absolutely a perfect gun to make because of how modular it is. It can be a lmg, an assault rifle, or a mounted machine gun. Now for the topic, I think modern guns do work with fallout since well they have shown up before in the games. I used to only add WWII and early Cold War weapons. Until I started realizing that P90s, Deagles, and M249s for example were in the games before now I add whatever honestly lol

[@fluffywolfo3663]

I think about that a lot tbh

[@solidsnakeshugecake]

I just want a good spas12 mod for Xbox. There's only one and it's really shitty

[@kireta21]

Post-apocalyptic homemade weapons - replacer version, is always the first weapon mod I install. It makes pipe guns look like they're made by someone who actually knows how to work metal, and assault rilfes like WW1/inter-war era light machineguns. Even laser muskets look like solid weapons with it installed.

[@Sigismund-von-Luxembourg]

I normally replace the homemade crap with AK's

[@Klinkertinlegs]

Thanks for that. Love how it makes the Deliverer look. I love that gun.

[@jonahulichny9874]

What’s wrong with the laser musket?

[@artix548]

For a firearm divergent point in the 1940s, there are still technologies that were being developed that would only be released in the 50s, like the Uzi, the FN FAL, the G3, the M14, and the AR-15. So their intended design pilosophy still doesn't make sense unless the divergence point is the 1930s.

[@The_Helmet]

The thing is that, I personally don’t think weapons beyond 2000 belong in fallout is that in the lore there were a lot of resource shortages before the Great War and wood furniture seems to be go to on the weapons from the lore’s perspective and oil shortages together with synthetic polymers are also rare. 21st century firearms tend use a lot of polymer hence not lore friendly. Solution: slap some wood furniture and it becomes lore friendly.

[@brothatscrazy3418]

Yeah slap some wood furniture, beat up textures and some junk parts I'm all for it. Over hyper modern fully synthetic parts with modern brand tags on them. Just my opinion.

[@J.B.1982]

Agree with this. Tech still advances but it’s the materials that need to be “lore friendly”

[@sanlorenzo7896]

I don’t see why not. The NCR and Survivalist have used AR-15’s with wood furnishings upon inspection.

[@DJWeapon8]

Then they'd use metal or wood as furniture. The design stays the same. For foreign guns made in Europe, sure. The resource wars affected them much earlier. But American guns? No. It'd only start affecting the US around the 2060 and onwards. And even then they wouldn't start feeling it until the late 2060s.

[@Arkimedus]

The super modern polymer made guns in fallout tend to be a rarity, so that does make sense

[@gcon.807]

I think that the perfect cutoff date should be around mid-late Cold War era, maybe leading into the early 1990s. It provides a wide variety of firearms that lean into the modern world and many, many prototypes, but it also keeps the retro feel of the early games. This is why I like Fallout 2 so much, it has cool looking and feeling firearms that are familiar to our generation. Also, the energy weapons look so much better in the old games, like the WP94 Rifle and the Wattz 2000, and also the M72 Gauss Rifle.

[@guitarandgames1386]

I think the 90s is perfect. It includes AR style weapons such as the marksman carbines while not out of the realm of possibility that older guns could be in storage. In 1995 the first quad rail systems were being fitted on the M4s in military service. Thus allowing the marksman carbine to exist properly which is one of the guns people have issue with

[@Jiub_SN]

I'd go earlier, it really should be when the divergence would've massively effected the timeline. Maybe just as the Soviet Union began to become friendly with the US?

[@Olafmikli]

The original bullpup combat shotgun really needs to come back into the series, too.

[@drivanradosivic1357]

Pancor Jackhammer as the post prototype version for Fallout 5 would be nice to have. what do you prefer, the a flip out cylinder to reload or a fixed cylinder to reload?

[@DJWeapon8]

​​@@drivanradosivic1357 If its going to be in a scifi game, might as well scifi it up and make the jackhammer as the best as it could become. Quick detaching drum magazine. Removable carry handle and an attachment point for optics on the top. Threaded barrel for different muzzle devices.

[@drivanradosivic1357]

@@DJWeapon8 agreed. make the Pancor Jackhammer the best it can be.

[@thomasarmstrong882]

I feel the Cold War is a good cut off. Like someone else here said, I also think Vietnam (mid Cold War) is a great cut off point. Lore wise, you do have the m249, Desert Eagle, and p90, whcih are all 80's weapons which is later (peak Cold War though), but everything else (G3, FAL, AR15, MP5) is late 50's and early 60's (or late 40s for the AK). I feel the Vietnam era firearms tech and uniform are more inline with the retro theme and divergent history and tech. In Operation Anchorage we see US troops using G3s alongside laser rifles, plasma equipped Gutsy models, sentry bots, and power armour. The Chinese are using AKs alongside stealth suits and chimera tanks. It would make sense to me that you'd see a falloff in the rate of development for firearms as energy weapon tech begins to take over and take focus. Having only really gotten to the slaver city in F2, and not started F1 yet, can anyone tell me if the originals still had a 1950's retrofuturistic theme to them, or did that get introduced with F3? All i'm getting from Fallout 2 so far is a Mad Max vibe, especially with the tribal types.

[@danieldragotti2608]

I really hope we go back to a more classic fallout ascetic in the future. Also because of the recourse war, oils and plastic were alot harder to make so any lore frendly gun is a weapon that takes that in to account and goes for durability and use over ascetic

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Much more wood furniture. Which looks good anyway. Wood and steel like in the old times.

[@fluffytowels1145]

I feel like a lot of modern gun mods don't even fit in with FNV, because even the guns that were modeled after specific real ones (e.g 9mm pistol, assault carbine etc.) are still a bit stylized and somewhat old

[@Guywhosaysbooya]

Yeah

[@user-vp6cq4sv3d]

I noticed that too. Fallout 4 Gun mods have the models look good. In that they're factory new fetuses.

[@daStig177]

Something worth noting about 2 and Tactics' weapon selection is that Chris Avellone later stated that he wished they didn't put so *many* modern guns in Fallout 2. Tactics was also obviously made by another studio, and I think was highly influenced by popular guns at the time of production. I'm inclined to agree with Chris. I think a number of the Fallout 2 inclusions make good sense from a materials / form language perspective, with the Pancor Jackhammer, Desert Eagle, earlier prototypes of the G11 (though not represented by the chosen sprite), and ESPECIALLY the FAL absolutely fitting the OG Fallout visual style. However, the P90 and marksman rifle absolutely do not belong in my opinion. - they're simply too associated with tacticool style. Quirky Cold War era weapon platform customization is a big part of what I think makes Fallout's small guns tick - things like reflex sights designed specifically for non-removable carry handles, dovetail mounts, laser sights built into weapon specific foregrips, etc. You get a sense that there was a lot of competition in the arms industry, and not a ton of consolidation - thus components are proprietary to their respective weapons systems. Picatinny rails also sabotage that crucial cold war era stamped sheet metal / bakelite / wood furniture visual style that meshes perfectly with the rest of the game world. What broke Fallout 4's guns was a complete lack of internal logic in the design. Guns in Fallout can and should be flashy to reflect pre war society's character, but never to the point of encumberance. Side note, my favorite original Fallout design has to be the City Killer. It's a very believable design, but still unique and very much in line with the established visual style.

[@SOLOcan]

J.E Sawyer however is a gun guy and I'm speculating is a large reason why there are alot of real life weapons in F:NV. Some things I would point to is he specifically wanted to put the hi-power in over the 1911 because he wanted a 1911 looking gun but thought the hi-power was underrated. And when they did decide to include the 1911 the animation was created from his own pistol. There's no reason why any gun can't be included in the game, I mean there is a laser tommy gun in F:NV But its actually as you said, the reason why it works is because of how it relates to a greater whole. At the time of tactics release it did feel like including the m16 was off, however in NV the m16 is pointed to as exemplary bit of world building. The point of a creative product is to take it to new places. F1, 2 and NV only set the feel of Fallout presently, we can only hope that the next developers can build on the world rather than just creating empty themeparks that only refer to the aesthetics of fallout.

[@Cook_A_Burra]

​@@SOLOcan I disagree with that last paragraph. There isn't anything wrong with sticking to what earlier games set. The feel, aesthetics, and general location of Stalker: Call of Pripyat is extremely similar to that of Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl, but I certainly wouldn't call Call of Pripyat an empty themepark or something that fails as a creative product. It's a great game that many fans consider to be the best in the series. Changing up the feel and setting can be awesome, of course, but keeping those things the same isn't inherently bad.

[@daStig177]

​@@SOLOcan Precisely. The real world stuff included in New Vegas is indeed top notch gun nerd selection in general. One of my favorites has to be the CAR 15 / XM177 based Assault Carbine, for which 5mm is an excellent timeline-rewrite caliber choice for how it's represented in the series.

[@SOLOcan]

​@@Cook_A_Burra Stalker: Call of Pripyat never had the impact the original Stalker did. It was a good game, but not the one that is remembered. _(the dev's also do expand alot on what they built upon in terms of lore and mechanics so its not like it was a unwarrented sequal)_ I would also point out the huge modding community dedicated to revamping the entire product. Clearly there is a certain "lack" that is desired by players. However finding out what that desire is takes risk and does not guarantee profits. Bethesda wants guaranteed profits; hence they make most risk adverse products imaginable where its mostly up to the players to make their own fun.

[@daStig177]

@@SOLOcan It's the rule most AAA devs of any industry currently operate off of. Unfortunately, when the end goal is maximizing profit, proper innovation is minimized. Games like Fallout 1, TES Arena/Daggerfall, and Deus Ex were massive risks in the form of vision projects that made it out the other end due to pure dedication and passion along with limited publisher oversight. With increased oversight comes concerns from higher up over features that need to be put into a game for it to be a "safe" release, often based off of what the competition is doing that's selling well instead of thinking about what could be the next big thing. Unfortunately, sometimes these features simply can't interact well with the core mechanics that brought fans to a series (see the axing of skills in Fallout 4). Even with limited overhead pressure, higher ups at Interplay tried to turn Fallout 1 into a realtime multiplayer game due to the release of Diablo, and I'm very glad that didn't happen. I don't think the guns of Fallout need to be redesigned from the ground up, as Bethesda often does - just remastered where appropriate and expanded. Let enduring fans enjoy their favorite old reliable and sprinkle some new fun toys into the sandbox that switch up the gameplay and benefit specific builds / tactics. Making art for weapons can take a long time in the pipeline so I totally understand not every gun making a comeback. New Vegas also did an excellent job with this by reintroducing the old plasma rifle and pistol, having them fill new roles.

[@tylorblack3152]

Carbine rifle, g3, honey badger etc should have been in both games. The military wasn’t always laser weapons they had to start somewhere , reskin them though. make them look like they’ve been through a nuclear war.

[@Doge_Brick_Animations]

to me it depends on the type of modern gun, if it is overly tactical, it might not fit as well

[@Fitzburg]

Definitely

[@unoriginalperson72]

It's aesthetic over time period, a gun like an OICW is futuristic looking but not the same futuristic as a honey badger and yet the former would fit more than the latter

[@andrewboyce2703]

To be fair, the R91/G3 was iirc issued to the reserves, rather than the regular Army. It can be inferred from the opening cutscene of FO4 that the regular army was moving to the AER9 laser rifle, given Nate and his squad were all holding them.

[@crestfallenneet2167]

Yeah and they do say as much in 3 via terminal entries. AER platform was being adopted as the new infantry standard weapon, so reserves and NG were getting stuff like the r91 (g3), or the service rifles, or the combat rifles, depending on region (game). Possibly even older 1st gen laser weapons like Wattz' stuff were getting phased out for the new thing.

[@NemyacX]

Nonsense. in the fallout 3 anchorage DLC, you are only issued ballistic weapons, including the R91, no laser weapons.

[@crestfallenneet2167]

@@NemyacX Probably should have said 'was in the process of being adopted', then again, O:A is a simulation and one tampered with by someone living out his power fantasies so honestly any in-universe historical inaccuracy can be chalked up to that. You do see soldiers holding them in the FO4 intro cinematic so at least the AER being issued to soldiers prior to the war is still canon unless otherwise stated.

[@0-Templar-0]

The 80s had a lot of futuristic weapon designs that fit right in. Bethesda should use those instead of creating more abominations like the "Assault Rifle."

[@Name16547]

Personally, I don't believe that super-duper-modern weapons should exist in Fallout, but most of weapons built before 2015 are things I want, like the M4A1, the M16A1, the Accuracy International AWM, etc.

[@clonecody7070]

Honestly I like the new art direction for Fallout but the guns especially the AR feels like a balloon. I'd love to see vietnam and cold war era guns redesigned in the style of the retrofuturistic style of the world

[@maxdamage4919]

New art direction is ugly, very cartoonish don't mention Lost the adult and dark identity.

[@IkLms11]

I can't stand it. Especially what they did with 76. It feels like the whole direction was to try and cater towards cartoon shooters like overwatch, valorant and Fortnite which is just a sad direction to go

[@joshwist556]

Looks so fucking disgusting. Everything is so fucking bloated and the colors just doesn’t fit at all.

[@indorilneravar4470]

I think the new art style may have also been a misrepresentation or an exaggeration of the characteristic Fallout humour from a design perspective. Speculating heavily here but I think the design leads at Bethesda at the time of the making of Fallout 4 may have decided to turn the dial to 11 in order to not appear derivative or 'boring' by choosing to stick to realistic weaponry. This sentiment is rather prominent on the player side too. A lot of Fallout players for instance will overly fixate on that dark, at-times wacky, goofy humour and completely ignore or overlook the gritty themes that are also prevalent in the series.

[@brendandonohue2398]

​@NiceShootinTexhow dare a world have a color besides orange and grey

[@sunbroke2679]

i think its good to have modern guns. the main part i want to see though is having the guns be a little roughed up being in a post apocalyptic setting and having just a little bit roughed up paint job atleast.

[@danielbuie6878]

I'm more shocked that Fallout 4's 'assault rifle' got as much as 4%, that's double what I would have expected.

[@nicholascauton9648]

Smoothbrains who have very little to no understanding basic firearm design likely picked that option.

[@Flesh_Wizard]

​@@nicholascauton9648or they like the feeling of firing a fking Pringles can😂