DO NOT PLAY THIS BASS IN 2025! Which Bass Is The Best Bass Guitar? - Bass Tier List

[@WhichBass]

Build your own tier list and send me your results! tiermaker.com/create/whichbass-tier-list-1012245

[@peteandurnot]

For me the number ones are jazz basses, 4 and 5 string, with no pickguard and an S1 switch. I used them for everything, including 2 sires for the active optuon. After that maybe a Hofner Cavern bass (with the 2 pickups closer to the neck). I have a Hofner that i use for acoustic gigs. Its one of the more recent budget versions. 3rd would be a fender precision just for studio work.

[@fernandomp418]

I've got 4 peavey t-40's.. I just love them ;) but a rickenbacker has always been my dream bass.. Which bass: find me a used rick and we can do a trade hehe.. (for real)...

[@floridianthrasher5426]

Do they have a dean metalman?

[@joecmillerify]

I just found you video as a recommended video, I have quite a few bases like you a couple of mine are very eclectic but I love them. What is your opinion of the Steinberger XL2? I own a pre-Gibson that we rebuilt. My other basses or on your list except for a fairly decent Steinberger clone the Hohner B2ADB.

[@60degreelobwedge82]

The violin bass is incredibly versatile: it worked for Paul McCartney and it fits perfectly in a wide range of musical genres, spanning from Beatles cover bands to Beatles tribute bands.

[@shaalis]

yep it's as versitile as chopsticks!

[@luciosalustiano5837]

Only Paul McCartney liked that bass. Everyone else hated the experience and said so with a lot of criticism: muddy and lifeless tone; the body is very small so is not possible to support the arm which hinders ergonomics; you need to exert force to play because the strings are VERY hard; neck dive because the body is very light, the shape of the neck makes it a bit difficult to play quickly, the electronics are a bit confusing and not very functional when playing, etc...

[@calbassist2494]

It may be versatile for Paul himself. I agree it's a very good and amazing bass, but it's not as versatile as some may think.

[@trance9158]

A wide range of musical genres. As long as it's Beatles related huh??

[@MayonnaiseOreo]

@@trance9158That's the joke

[@firemarshal2629]

One thing I have always found funny regarding the P-Bass and its supposed "lack of versatility" is that it is found in every single genre of music ever made. Rock, Metal, Blues, Jazz, Pop, Motown, you name it, the P-Bass has done it. For a bass with only one sound, It is one hell of a sound.

[@Hndsmstrngr1]

It has more than one sound it just has a limited range being a single pickup instrument. But it's a classic sound. Personally I've always preferred the Jazz Bass both in tonal aspect and the way the neck is shaped

[@seungjaeyune2008]

King doesn't need versatility

[@bsa2025]

I use PJ with switch so I can solo the P and use it with tone control. Just one pickup but you can use a pedalboard with it. Or a good amp.

[@joshuaselser7210]

Lol

[@Rib13Bass]

P basses can do a lot but they are limited to one voice ( a single split in that mid body position).....in many ways its like making different vowel sounds with your mouth: different tones but still just a single voice

[@HonJazzz]

Peavey T-40 owner here and this list really put a smile on my face. I did a ton of research when buying my first bass, and found a T-40 for $550 in great condition. This was a few years ago and I can see that these basses have really gone up in value.

[@Apprentice_of_the_Leonine]

Only problem with a T-40 is... *H E A V Y* ⚓

[@HonJazzz]

@@Apprentice_of_the_Leonine Yeah I like it in the studio

[@chainsawenthusiast]

i wanted to buy one a couple years ago and seeing how expensive they are now i really regret it. they seem to go for about 1.5k now easily, i could have bought one locally for 450. not bummed i can't make money off of it, just bummed it's way harder to get now.

[@thecriticalhitno.1638]

Another Peavy T-40 owner, I grabbed mine second hand from under a table for 200 dollars, it needed some work, but let me tell you, I don't think I can play any other bass, I absolutely love this thing, and nowadays, the weight isn't even a bother

[@peik5569]

Ehh I disagree on the p-bass. You can do any genre on one! Sure, if you play extreme metal you might need to swap a more powerful pickup into it, but besides that it just works! Scotts bass lessons has a great video about p-basses with a famous session bassist (who’se name I can’t remember lmao)! But hey, it’s your list and it’s a valid one too!

[@eckie4679]

P Bass all the way. From James Jameson through John Entwhistle, Roger Waters, Steve Harris and Jean Jaques Burnell. A huge range of sounds, styles and genres all from one basic design 😎

[@MoodyWatters]

Quite, mate.

[@S4Diii]

for me, the P is the bass to rule them all. i have a P with flatwounds and a PJ with roundwound strings on it. thats everything you'll ever need :D

[@Tedris4]

Yeah to me, the P bass is the equivalent to the Plexi or JCM 800 - one channel and a distinct sound but you find them in pretty much every single genre cause that one channe is so versatile

[@WhichBass]

P basses have their place for sure. I'm not taking that away from them. I wanted to show if you wanted a bass that would go the extra mile there are more to choose from.

[@MajorMistake]

"[The Spector Euro] really reminds me of a Warwick Streamer" That might be, because Warwick just blatantly ripped off Spector and never even made a secret out of it. Early versions even used to have the same headstock.

[@Malum09]

Really?! That makes so much sense

[@MajorMistake]

Yeah, it even made it on the Streamer bass's Wikipedia page. Check the section "Design similarity to Spector NS-Basses"

[@ileutur6863]

@@MajorMistake Yea but warwick ended up doing much more with the curved body design

[@xtrict]

Correct my friend. There is a few Spector/Warwick crossover/ transition basses out there. Not many were made then Stuart and Ned pulled them up on it. Warwick changed the headstock for legal reasons. Look for a video with Ned talking about the Ns2 design, he was a furniture designer and understood erogenomics. I'm not an afficiado, just a Spector fan.

[@user-ix6qr5if5y]

Warwick did end up paying for the rights to use the shape and design, though. Until Spector changed its management and the new management couldn't be assed to retain this arrangement so Warwick just stopped paying. The Streamer is by now its own thing though, you can hardly compare them to Spectors anymore.

[@darwinsaye]

Here’s my two cents. For my taste, the P Bass is an S tier. It has the perfect amount of bottom and low mids. It is versatile enough to play ANY kind of music. “Too bottomy” for you? That’s what the amp EQ is for. I’ll take a bass with too much low end that I have to passively cut, over one of these modern ones that I have to try to add it in with an active system, any day. Now coming from that personal taste, the Bronco actually has a very similar tone. You have to realize two things, the first P Basses had a single coil like the Bronco. The second misconception is that a short scale has a weak or thinner tone. Actually the opposite. They focus more on the fundamental and less of the higher overtones than a longer scale base so they have a very thick focused bottom end. Which brings me to my other point of disagreement. Price aside because I agree with you that it’s too expensive, and I agree that it’s not as *fully* versatile as most of the other basses on your list - in the sense that your not going to be able to play slap on it (which is fine with me, because I never play slap), but you really underestimate the Violin style hollow bass. If you think it’s not versatile, look at how many McCartney songs it was used on, and how many diverse styles of music those McCartney songs cover. To me the tone is second only to a P Bass. It’s more physically fragile and I’m not going to thrash on it, but I could cover most kinds of music on it. Other than that I agree with a lot of your placements. And kudos especially for recognizing the Peavey T40.

[@WhichBass]

Great response MK, I hear you. Remember this video is all subjective to my tastes. Depending on the quality of the P bass it really makes a difference to how versatile it can be. In that sense when I compared it to the other basses it came up a bit short. I take your point on the Hofner in terms of song composition but remember I'm speaking as a bass player who wants to hear himself and the boxy tones don't work for me! Glad we agreed on the rest!

[@ianisaacs2340]

I love the Hofner because of Tame Impala. Kevin Parker has played his Hofner in very surprising situations, and I love the results he gets. I believe he plays it through an overdriven SVT

[@NateLethal]

No one ever mentions that the Bronco's Started as the Fender Musicmaster Bass.

[@vanniancillotti]

I play a G&L L-1000: I tested one when I was 20 and immediately fell in love with it. I spent 10 years waiting to be able to afford one... now my 1981 in transparent blue is my pride and joy! Weighs a ton... both physically and soundwise!

[@WhichBass]

I hear those G&L basses are killer. I'll try to include on next time after I've played one.

[@vanniancillotti]

@@WhichBass The vintage, passive L-1000 are quite rare beasts, at least here in Italy. G&L is now reissuing them under the CLF Research brand: never seen one of those, but the reviews I heard are enthusiastic. The newer, active breed is quite a different instrument, specwise: never tried one of those either.

[@jaxonvictoria4345]

The Sterling by Music Man basses punch above their price, definitely. Not all of them have 2-band EQs, the Ray34 has 3 bands and the Ray4SS (which you showed on-screen) is a passive one with unique controls. Lots of players can attest that their import Stingrays play close, or like, their USA Stingrays.

[@bassplayer2011ify]

Yeah and Ernie Ball has finally corrected some of the problems withe the early Sterlings. Like wiring the pickups in parallel instead of series just like the Usa counter parts (and how it should have been from day one). And putting half way decent pre amps and pickups in them.

[@Pookiestud]

It’s so interesting how opinions differ because I’ve owned so many of these and I ALWAYS gravitate to the mid-level Ibanez SR300, 400 and 500 series or the mid-level Yamaha BB series. To each, his own, for sure!

[@WhichBass]

Sounds like you found your sound! Which is what we are all here for of course. I do dig those Yamaha BBs though!

[@trance9158]

Yamaha basses rule .. take a BB over a p bass any day ...

[@Bassboy1987]

"The P bass is not useful for every application". You do know that the P bass is the most recorded bass in history and has been used in all genres right?

[@Killadey]

Those two statements are not contradictory though?

[@Bassboy1987]

@@Killadey The first part is what the guy in the video said. I just put it quotations to avoid any confusion.

[@WhichBass]

That's my subjective opinion, there's always a bass I could pick out that works better than a P.

[@Killadey]

@@Bassboy1987 I'm aware of that. I'm just saying that the statement you quoted is not at odds with your own statement. Basically, i'm saying that just because a bass is the most recorded bass in history, and is used in all genres, does not mean that there wont be situations where another bass might be preferable. I responded to you before I got that part of the video. So it doesnt take into account any additional statements subsequently mentioned by WhichBass. 🙂👍

[@Bassboy1987]

@@WhichBass I can respect that opinion, for example. Even though a P bass can do funk, it might be better to use a J bass due to being able to get a lighter tone out of it easier. I personally play a mustang PJ because I fell I can get even more out of it then a P or J on their own.

[@Naniamania3]

Check out the G&Ls as well. I think they speak to a lot of what you're looking for and asking for. Again...Leo is a genius. Happy New Year!

[@TheBGS128]

I haven't even finished the video and I'm already thrilled. A change in the channel dynamics and a fun list. Keep on going!

[@WhichBass]

Thanks Angelo, that's really encouraging I appreciate that dude.

[@bassmangotdbluz3547]

The Peavey T-40 has a Swamp Ash Body and a Rock Maple Neck. Mine literally weighs 40 lb. but it is such a versatile sounding instrument. On the Tone Pots, settings 1 through 7 are Humbucking while 8 through 10 is Single Coil. There is also a Phase Switch to add even more (or less) color to your sound. These things weren't well accepted at the time but Hartley Peavey really knew what he was doing and was way ahead of his time.

[@WhichBass]

That sounds killer, I'd love to hear it in action!

[@Hndsmstrngr1]

Yeah, he was ahead of the curve with that one. Most folks didn't even understand how to use it.

[@davidcampbell7831]

I have a Peavey T40, and it certainly is a nifty instrument. I'm in my early 50's now, and the weight does become a bigger factor when gigging. Mine is upwards of 11.5 lbs! ALso, the pickups are VERY powerful... to the point where if you're not careful you'll be redlining your signal.

[@BlueRoseShilloh]

They’re a boat ancor from what i’ve heard

[@donnix768]

Heavy bass, but you can pull a shit ton of tones out of them. You can replicate almost any of the highly usable bass tones i.e. a precision, a jazz, a musicman, rickenbacker, etc.

[@Coastal_Cruzer]

T-20 is also amazing. Incredible tone and severely underrated

[@WhichBass]

Spot on Don!

[@mikechecka292]

I had one back in the 90s. My speedmetal loving teenage self didnt like the T-40 and I let it go for nothing. Fast forward to 2021 and I really want one because they are great basses. They are pricey,at least way more than they were 30 years ago. Dont drop it on your toe😀

[@Slydeil]

I had an Ibanez SR800le for years and couldn't find any other affordable bass that I loved, it was great for gigging (and I think you gave Ibanez a tough time)...until I got a 2nd hand 90s Musicman Sterling, which is perfect weight and tone for gigging. Utter quality. My other bass is the only Fender I've ever liked or loved, the Geddy Lee signature Jazz MIJ. Lovely neck and tone.

[@Voltanaut]

As a Ric player, I'm content with a B tier placement. Well played, sir.

[@creid1980]

Agreed, although I'd have put it there for different reasons. Its more versatile than he gives it credit for but the fact that you have to mod a 2000 dollar bass to tame the insane hum from the pick ups is a bit of a slap in the face!

[@TenFalconsMusic]

I'll gladly sell you my 4003 Jetglo (2017). I hate everything about it and is too unreliable to even consider gigging with it. The neck does yoga with the slightest temperature change and the bridge refuses to stay intonated for more than a few days. What's more, the frets are made of warm butter and already need replacing. Interested?

[@Voltanaut]

@@TenFalconsMusic Which country do you live in?

[@TenFalconsMusic]

@@Voltanaut New Zealand.

[@Voltanaut]

@@TenFalconsMusic I'm currently based in South Korea, but my family home is in the UK. How much would it cost to buy your Ric and ship it to the UK?

[@deadapostle]

I really love how aggressive you are with your rating system. I haven't seen an S tier yet and that's kind of great.

[@WhichBass]

Thanks Deadapostle. When everything is an S tier, nothing is. Gotta be tough!

[@ileutur6863]

The fender P and J have a unique advantage of you're a working musician - no one notices them and no one complains. You might not like their somewhat limited tonal range, I feel the same, but a studio engineer most likely knows how to dial them in. If you need to get in and get out of a session without anyone asking questions, they are the best options

[@donnix768]

Great point, producers and engineers love fender precision’s. The way they sit in the mix is unmatched.

[@WhichBass]

Absolutely, they have their advantages. Just in terms of this video, if you want something that will do it all that's where the other tiers come into play. So like I said "it's a good start but we can do better!"

[@rrdream2400]

@@WhichBass yeah but a Peavey can't do what a P bass does, it just can't. You can get like 92 different sounds with it but it doesn't get that one sound the P gets.

[@EIYH58]

@@rrdream2400 The Peavey T-60 yes .........

[@rrdream2400]

@@EIYH58 what are some examples of a famous recording using a Peavey T-60 that sounds like a Precision?

[@Tedris4]

The Yamaha BB is used by the bassist of Exodus and gets that solid clanky thrash sound from it, so it certainly is versatile if it can sound as good and growly as it does on those albums.

[@WhichBass]

Absolutely! Good point.

[@jjjjjjjj7n]

Ibanez Sr high end series (premium and prestige) are some of the best basses I tried for the money by FAR. The EQ range and versatility is just immense on them. I also have the SR 1206 premium 25th anniversary. I swapped the preamp for an Aguilar OBP-3, and it goes toe to toe with high end boutique basses. So yeah, I disagree completely, their high end really deserves at least an A

[@mackmcd]

Yeah I popped in just to see where the SR's landed and they were done dirty in this video. Best bang for buck, hands down.

[@WhichBass]

Fair enough! I'm glad you got a bass that works for you, that's all that matters.

[@Kutamitasa]

And of course Premium is not top of the line.

[@charleswidmore5458]

I bought a nice SR500e to learn bass on and have been trying to figure out what amp/ speaker or combo to get. As an experienced player what would you recommend that is not super expensive? Seismic has a 115 cab for $200 they rate at 300w rms and a 210 cab for about the same price. I would like to stay under $600 if possible and a would not have a problem going used.

[@jjjjjjjj7n]

@@charleswidmore5458 I have the little mark ninja 1000w head, and a 4x10.. but for your price range try the Boss katana for bass, I tried it the other day and it was pretty good.

[@raidwolf4088]

Much love for Spector. My Euro 5LX has never let me down. I'm wondering what you would think of the EMG's instead of the Barts.

[@jackshittle]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[@Zontar-xt6ql]

Yup not a fan of the barts. Swapped mine to aggies in my lx. Much happier now.

[@WhichBass]

I'd love to try that, that's a great suggestion ... Should I ever get one haha.

[@Armand130372]

@@WhichBass You should get a LT to try. I think you'll change your thoughts about the price knowing the Barts are custom wound and the DG PreAmp is Custom Voiced for Spector. This combination is not availlable in any other bass. Also it is weight relieved to approx. 10 pounds, so that also should be considered. (sorry for my english, not my native language). But I'm still happy about the final rating :-)

[@tifosistaymad583]

Why is this video titled 2024 but clearly was posted in 2021? Do you update the title every year?

[@snow15243]

Dude, the Ibanez soundgears are at least a c tier.

[@cirnegro8938]

no, sorry

[@AndrewCapobianco2014]

agree, I had a 1992 5 string which could challenge an Alembic, it recorded into the board direct like a new piano wire

[@creid1980]

Low end ibanez basses sound great and are incredibly versatile for the price, a lot of bang for the buck. Spend like 300ish USD on an ibanez SR300E. Three band active eq, coil tap in the bridge pick up, pick up blend control.... Ridiculous stuff for the price point! Like he said, its all subjective and it was a fun video but I disagree with most of it!

[@Coastal_Cruzer]

Buying them in person can get you C tier, buying online without the ability to try out a few to get the tone you want will give a D or lower. For mod-ability, definitely an A. Really good entry level basses.

[@Coastal_Cruzer]

@@creid1980 I run a heavily modded SR300DX and it never lets me down. I love it so much.

[@Glockenstein0869]

The fender p bass is in a league of its own when recording in the studio. It just fits so well with the mix and works with pretty much any kind of music.

[@WhichBass]

Most of the time sure. But there's always a bigger fish ;)

[@josku5]

@@WhichBass Except this time

[@aarons9259]

How can he give the p bass a B? Sure, it doesn't have a lot of options, but that is because it's pretty close to perfect as is. Well, everyone has a right to their option, I guess.

[@Voltanaut]

B tier basses can be better at their "thing" than A and S tier basses, but A and S basses can do most things well enough. If you want a Swiss army knife, get an A or S bass, but if you love a particular genre or timbre, B basses are best.

[@WhichBass]

Absolutely, well said.

[@mysterj1]

I agree. I am at a point in my playing where I’ve pretty much decided what tone(s) I like and want in my toolbox and my basses are pretty much selected to get THOSE tones. (Currently my lineup includes a Fender Jazz Bass w/ an Audere Pre, a Warmoth P Bass, a Gibby EB-1, a Ric 4003, a modded J Bass loaded with a Gibson mudbucker, and a Takamine ABG). All played through either a SVT or a Portaflex. There’s something about bass through a 15” inch speaker and that “woof” that I love!

[@alosthope9418]

Anyone else just browses through pawn shops for the little gems? I found a vintage rickenbacker for about $500 in one.

[@mysterj1]

Unfortunately, that era is past…most pawn shops have a good idea how to find prices if they don’t know them, this it’s almost impossible to find a treasure…but congratulations that YOU did!

[@jeffjones9448]

@@mysterj1 How true! No more $200 1972 American Jazz basses. The local pawn shop is full of dusty cheap knock offs with $1500 price tags on them.

[@CouchEconomyTX]

Dude The way I felt about P-Basses changed the moment I picked up a made in mexico. I fell in love with it and then bought it after a couple months.

[@WhichBass]

Weird that?! Those MiM's have some thing about them!

[@pfinnerty]

The Hofner Bass is handmade by a professional Luthier .This same company makes handmade classical instruments .I had a whole range of bass guitars in my collection but once I bought my Hofner I sold all my other guitars because they all sounded like the same mass produced bass guitars from a factory.If you get a chance to try out a German made Hofner you might appreciate the unique quality tone woody tone that it produces.

[@normg2242]

Finally someone who calls the Hofner bass for what it is...lol

[@WhichBass]

Better keep that quiet Norm! These people are pissed!

[@normg2242]

@@WhichBass ... if that bass were any good, they wouldn't be, because the bass could speak for itself. For me, being mad is not a good argument. It's just nonsense at a higher volume.

[@mattf5630]

Video posted 3 years ago, but somehow he knew what was up in 24?? Dude has a time machine

[@dropdtuned1]

One more thing on a bass tier list. I am a non-professional. When we talk about tier lists we talk about versatility and I myself I talked about being able to play multiple Genres with a particular bass. As bass players we know how much others in the band and outside of it like to tell us how to play and sound, especially when it comes to playing covers. So we way versatility in an instrument very highly. My personal opinion is to build your own sound, find a bass that rocks your would then build your own ass-kicking style. Even if it is a cover, make it your own. If the band or the song doesn't suite your sound and style, you will be much happier finding something else or someone else to play with.

[@WhichBass]

Couldn't say it any better myself, nice one Droptuned.

[@justsomedude5727]

Cant speak for the newer ones as much but i have a vintage t bird and its my favourite bass, i find the muddyness goes away when you turn down the neck pickup and its a lot more versatile, just add some bass back in from your amp and turn the mids way up.

[@WhichBass]

Great point, rolling off the neck usually gives you a bit more bite on any bass. If you have a nice amp to go with it. I bet it's killer!

[@Apprentice_of_the_Leonine]

EMG makes aftermarket T-Bird pickups (for the modern basses) that are far clearer, but they're active so you have to find a way to fit that battery clip without any modifications to the wood.

[@travelinben1966]

Thanks for comparing and contrasting all these basses.I’m in the market for a short scale bass, and the Fender Mustang player series PJ 👍🏻sounds like it might fit the bill for me.

[@daveethridge7342]

I've found that a padded leather strap is a good affordable solution for neck dive and heavy basses.

[@rome8180]

For the record, some of the prices you quoted are lower here in the US. For example, you said the Aerodyne was $1100. It's $824 new here. The same is true of several of the other basses you mentioned. The only reason I'm saying that is that quoting the dollar price may give some people the idea that's how much they cost in the US. Also, I own an Aerodyne and am a big fan. I don't have the issue you have with the pickups. Mine are fairly hot. What I actually don't like is the look of it. Ha. I like color on my bass. And I like a pickguard.

[@WhichBass]

Prices are just a guideline, I wouldn't worry about it! I'm happy to hear you love your Aerodyne, it's a lovely bass for sure. I just want more out of it. I have a review of my Aerodyne coming out soon, I'd love to hear your take on that!

[@j.r.carlucci3849]

Interesting commentary - IMHO, there is to much weight given to the basses with preamps. Yes a preamp gives you more versatility but at the end of the day it's usually just bass/mid/treble boost and maybe cut. This can easily be achieved by an amp or a pedal. I think what's most important in choosing a bass is feel - how comfortable are you playing it and the overall tonal quality which is mostly defined by pickup layout. For that reason I think the Jazz bass is still the ultimate standard. You have bridge and neck pickups with blend that gives you a lot of variety from a low end P bass style to a tightly articulate bridge sound. Most other basses with 'versatility' are just variations on this - maybe humbuckers, maybe serial/parallel switches but in my experience none of this usually makes a significant difference. In fact you can usually get more distinction in sound by simply plucking at different areas of the instrument (closer to the bridge or neck). I also think at some point having a variety of sounds just becomes too much. For example, on some Ibanez basses with the pickup variations you can dial in 12 distinct 'sounds' without even touching the preamp. I suppose some may love to experiment and change, but I think most want to lock into a good sound and focus o the music. Just my 2 cents - I'm sure there are plenty that disagree, but thanks for the video, it was fun.

[@CC-fi3pp]

I went for a 1996 MIJ P bass (62 reissue)and upgraded the pickups/electronics and tuners. None of that extra crap like a J pickup - just a really good plain P (it plays as good as any bass I've ever tried, even $5000 basses). AND IT'S AMAZING! All you need is a plain P.

[@Coastal_Cruzer]

Peavey T-20, a rare-ish bass that is severely underrated

[@naughtscribe]

Peavey kicks ass!

[@romkathe-coolest-tvivov8035]

I dream about T-45. It's like T-40 but with one humbucker pickup in middle position like on a classical p-bass

[@michaellorenz7177]

The heaviest matter in the universe: the Peavey T-40.

[@Coastal_Cruzer]

@@michaellorenz7177 peavey T basses in general are absolute bricks

[@adamcawdle]

someone told me once, the Aerodyne looks like a paper cutout of a jazz bass, I cant unsee it.

[@WhichBass]

100% true! As you'll see in my Aerodyne review coming your way!

[@Decoffeee-ky4ch]

I had a rickenbacker once, apart from looking nice it was pure shit. I now play an Ibanez SR675 and it’s amazing.

[@craigmoran893]

Yeah i played one at an old metal heads house, garbage. Fuckin heavy too.

[@Decoffeee-ky4ch]

@@craigmoran893 weak tone, weighs more than the sun, baseball bat neck, the worse most impractical bridge imaginable and neck dive.

[@davidlovellbass4761]

I found the same. Loved the look and dropped a ton on different pickups which changed very little to give it more meat

[@Kylora2112]

They look and sound great, but the hardware is just horribly designed.

[@0000song0000]

Jackson is borrowing the looks for one of their Pro Basses... wanna try one out. (and yes, Rickenbackers are over rated and super over priced)

[@v1rtu050]

Interesting video, thanks. I've subscribed to your channel. I was very surprised you rated the Ibanez SRs that low, as it's generally regarded as a good "value for money" bass. It'd be interesting to know how you rate the relatively new series of Ibanez EHB ergonomic fan fret headless basses.

[@Bassdriver]

S: the Wal. This is the bass to rule them all. A: MIA Jazz, Music Man Stingray, Yamaha BB2024. Great professional basses. B: P-Bass, MIM Jazz Bass, Sterling Stingray, Gibson Ripper, Rickenbacker, Lakland, Ibanez ATK, Ibanez SR1825 (impossible to rate together with the GSR), Peavey T-40, Dingwall. Either solid workhorses or iconic sounding basses with limited versatility. C: Ibanez GSR, Hofner, T-Bird, SG, Spector, Aerodyne. Either a bit lacking in some regards or just meh. D: Squier Bronco. A toy. F: Warwick. All Warwicks. Overpriced pieces of firewood. Sound of dried shit. Yes, they're well made and some of them look nice but they all sound horrible.

[@danadane2501]

There's one thing I will say about super Heavy basses . Often times they have amazing acoustics and resonance that picks up really well through passive pickups . The down side is if you're playing gigs night in and out . You're looking at eventually haven't severe shoulder damage . Ask Jason Newsted !

[@WhichBass]

Couldn't agree more Dane. I know exactly what you mean about Jason for sure!

[@glennjones6004]

I bought an Epiphone Jack Casady Signature bass to relieve the stress from 30 years of playing a '78 P-bass. Some might argue that this is an extreme change of tonality, but I have found the JC to be a very versatile bass. Using a 3-channel Tech 21 Sans Amp bass driver DI and a versatile custom amp, I have found all the tones I need. Besides, most of the tone IS in your fingers.

[@heggy_69]

The hofner part is making me want to buy one and join a metal band lmao

[@WhichBass]

If you do that, I want to see the results!

[@stolnme1409]

@yaohunter I had that exact thought today but a Hofner club. I read Ben Sheppard from Soundgarden had a Hofner like McCartney's but destroyed it on stage after being sick of tuning issues.

[@LanceJean02]

What's your opinion on the basses made by Alembic?

[@WhichBass]

Works of art! I haven't played out so I can't give a full opinion but just listen to Jason Newstead, enough said.

[@TheKingCrow]

Rule #1 of Peavey Slab Club - Don't talk about Peavey Slab Club

[@burp1914]

where is this club?

[@TheKingCrow]

@@burp1914 shhhhhh

[@burp1914]

@@TheKingCrow WTF we should take to the streets, armed with MIA Peavey basses. Maybe a flag or holiday.

[@ADG-ADHD]

warwick thumb opinions ??? i own one and it has absolutely the most versatile pan pot which gives the ultimate range and in between the positions.

[@minusone7933]

I own a Warwick thumb neck through. It obliterates every bass on that list combined!!! Lol.

[@that_rendle]

I played the American Ultra Jazz (in Cobalt) in my local store and it was SO hard to leave without buying it. Best feeling instrument I've ever held.

[@ianisaacs2340]

Precision Bass is my first bass, my favorite, and the most recorded bass in history. I disagree with you on versatility, it’s in every genre ever. And IMO it does well. It has a sound that sure, you know it’s a PBass, but it works in a mix.

[@WhichBass]

We can disagree and still be friends. Of course P basses have their place - quite rightly. In my preference, I would take something else.

[@ZvonTracy-g1g]

just because its in every genre doesn't mean its good for said genres, its pretty horrible for metal

[@GregBonks]

What is very nice as well about a P-Bass is that you can always find a used one in great condition, there are so many P-Basses (as well as other Fenders/Squires). I know a person in one of my local bands who plays the Squire Bronco as their main bass, it is one of the best sounding instruments I've heard.

[@BassManqk]

I am looking to buy the Yamaha BB735A. My current bass is Peavey Cirrus BXP 5-String which I've had for 15 years and is the best bass I have played in its price range.

[@johnjonesToffeeman]

I am glad I watched this. I bought my first bass a peavey BXP milestone jazz I love it but I never heard anyone mention peavey before so now I feel good about the brand

[@massimilianograssini5565]

I had been looking for a new bass for a year. Through your video I became interested in the t-40, a bass I did not know. A week ago I became its owner, and I must say that it is a portentous tool. Thank you again and happy new year.

[@WhichBass]

Oh my god you're kidding! Well done teo you Massimiliano. You have no idea how jelous I am.

[@massimilianograssini5565]

@@WhichBass a t40 from '79, thanks again for reporting it in your ranking.

[@itsmebeter3538]

i'm so glad you didn't go out of your way to play all of the basses you ranked.

[@Rustinho]

I've got an Ibanez GSR205 and I've gotta say - you're not far off the mark! It's ok to play (mostly!) but I only paid £75 for it so I'm not complaining. If it's set up nicely it's certainly a usable piece of gear, particularly if you're popping it through some effects or an amp simulation or something. I already had an SR300 and that is MUCH better. Another bargain I picked up this year (for less than £50) was an entry level Yamaha (TR070 or something - it was originally part of a bass, amp, cable, etc bundle for beginners). It feels so nice to play but lacks in versatility (passive, one cheapo P-bass style pickup). It's opened my eyes to trying other Yamaha basses in the future. It was an entertaining list. Thanks for taking the time to make the video. While I'm here I thought I'd suggest a possible "know your gear" video - Pete Way of UFO fame. It should be a fairly short but interesting video and there are tons of amusing anecdotes about Pete's escapades to slip in. :)

[@snow15243]

yea i really dont like that he clumped the GSR and SR basses into the same category as if they're the same basses but, they are very different from eachother.

[@WhichBass]

Glad we're on the same page TRD! Hey, like you said £75 isn't bad at all just for a bass. For that price is wouldn't be half bad.

[@daveethridge7342]

I run my Epiphone Thunderbird through my Fender Rumble 100 with the vintage tone engaged. I think it's great for Blues, Reggae, Motown, and Classic Rock. My Boss ODB-3, Old Dirty Bastard, gives me a great Stoner Doom Metal tone.

[@nickwass9700]

The quick dismissal of the Höfner and the easy complaint about the price seems to me that you have done no research. It's a hollow body bass handmade in Germany. People pay double the price for an American solid body bass that is popped out of a CNC machine. It might not be good for every genre, but then again, no other bass really makes that sound. Why do half the recording studios in the world have one?

[@ileutur6863]

Yea? Well we're speaking from a players perspective and to most of us it sound boring and weak and is only popular because Paul McCartney played one

[@craigmoran893]

It looks cheap.

[@justsomedude5727]

Cheap hofners are actually closer to pauls apparently because the shitty wood lets its resonate more

[@WhichBass]

I dismissed the Hofner because it only has a limited application. In that sense there are many other basses that can do better than it for a better price. I'm not taking away it's value to music. It's all subjective ;)

[@david.leikam]

I started with a black Hondo 4 string fretted (1990), then moved to an Ibanez SR(?) 4 string fretted (1992), upgraded to an Ibanez SR1300 Custom 4 string fretted (1994, still own), NS Design CR5-string Radius fretless (2019, still own), now a NS Design CR6-string Radius fretless electric bass (2022).

[@almostliterally593]

I’ve had my rickenbacker 4003 since i was 16. I’m 25 now, and it’s still my main bass.

[@WhichBass]

Brilliant choice!

[@DuckOnQuack47]

I think b is more appropriate for thunderbirds. They can be incredibly versatile, people just don't know how to mix them.

[@WhichBass]

Interesting take! Leave it up to the engineers!

[@hanorokpony420]

My Ibanez Premium 2600 is absolutely killer. I would put it in S. I had a Gio Ibanez before upgrading and it offered impressive bang for the buck

[@rolsonray]

This was very cool you should do more of these, thanks from Texas

[@WhichBass]

Thanks CoffeeMonster! People have asked my opinion on several other basses so I'll be doing it again! Stay safe in Texas.

[@aceyriot]

I can only really disagree on one point and it comes from experience. if you are a gigging musician, and you are dealing with carpal tunnel syndrome, the bronco bass(or fender mustang bass preferably) isn't a toy, it is a lifesaver. as long as you know your way around a soldering iron and a dremel, because i havent net a shorty that didnt need an aftermarket pickup, your options are wide open. i put a tv jones thunder'blade in a black bronco and it looked and sounded pretty damn sharp. the lower tension and shorter travel made me feel like i could play faster than i ever could. that being said, ibanez, epiphone and sire short scales can offer more in terms of not looking so out of place. Unfortunatly you would be hard pressed to hop on craislist and trade a practice amp, or a case of coors for a sire or an EB. I have found broncos in pawnshops that were sitting on guitar stands that were more expensive than the bass itself, and i have seen epiphone embassy basses with eyewatering price tags that just can't be justified. the bronco is the only bass that ticks every box when you need a short scale. a brand name pedigree, great string spacing, no neck dive, easy to modify, ubiquitous, affordable, and reduced need to ice my wrists nightly. i'm not looking forward to surgery so I would bump that up to at least B tier, perhaps even A with an asterisk.

[@birddispenser]

This is really cool, I just started learning bass and I wanted to get an idea of what I should look for when I decide to upgrade much later on.

[@WhichBass]

Great to hear Feathered, if you have any questions let me know and I'll get back to you.

[@Cruiseangel72]

Alfi your an amazing person. You my friend have a lot of information on all bass guitars. This video helped me choose my 26th bass. . Again you always make FANTASTIC VIDEOS. I ENJOY THEM VERY MUCH thanks again.

[@WhichBass]

Haha Cruise, thanks so much dude. I think if you have 26 basses you don't need my help! You should show yours off one day.

[@Cruiseangel72]

@Which Bass your absolutely right. I was very weary about a few bass's you have mentioned but after that fantastic and very informative video. I went and brought the 2 that I had doubts about and I love them. Thanks again Alfi. You Rock. !!

[@WhichBass]

Which ones were you worried about and how come? I'd love to know. Just don't say Violin bass 😜

[@Cruiseangel72]

@Which Bass 😂😂 no not the violin bass. The ones you reviewed were the WARWICK STREAMER. AND THE RICKENBACKER . The Warwick I picked up 2 days after your video and the Rick I picked up a week later a bit pricey but I love the tone. Thanks Alfi SOON IM going to post all my bass's a few I retired. To much wear . But I will post them anyway. Thanks again for your fantastic videos.

[@cruedevil71]

I had the pleasure of borrowing a Spector backing the 90s for a 4 week resident gig I had in a Florida pub. Definitely not thin maybe lacking in low mids but plenty of low end and hi mids for sure. Sounded ripping with a pick and fingers. That bass changed my life as in I've been depressed ever since having never the opportunity to own one of my own. I'm a guitarist mainly now and won't spend more than 700 for a used bass if that. Love the content keep up the good work.

[@WhichBass]

Thanks Mr TKO, aahh I hope you feel better about the Spector. If you see one I hope you'll extend your budget!

[@garsus3207]

I own a aerodyne also but changed out the pickups to a seymour duncan hot stack in the bridge and a steve harris p pickup in the neck , it now has the amazing power now and growl. 😁

[@AnteraxxX]

20:35 Never had one but the WAL is unoptainalbe here in germany. 2nd hand prices over 7k.... I mean, its versitile but a good Jazz for the Jazz Sounds and an Music Man HH will do the Job too imo

[@skyghostly7182]

4:53 Squire Broncos can actually be super sick with the right mods i absolutely love mine but admittedly its far from stock

[@dr.soupcan]

I own a Warwick Streamer. And I can't really see myself owning any other brand anymore. It became my main Bass. It meets all of my standards and allows me to play practically any genre of music. But the only problem is that I am a Musician on a Budget. I want to own more of them, but with my current job, it would take me months to get a new one. I'm maybe looking into a Thunderbird as a backup, Though I think a ESP Phoenix Bass would suffice.

[@WhichBass]

Glad we're on the same page regarding the Streamer. It's a killer sound and excellent instrument. How did you decide on a TB bass as a backup to your Streamer?! It's like night and day.

[@dr.soupcan]

@@WhichBass I think it's because I love the design of it. It's a unique shape that I rarely get to see opposed to the simple design of regular P Basses. But I can see what you're going for, The tone isn't all that great. I could always think of a different back up.

[@gerardorockerman69]

I love my Warwicks, I own two Corvettes and a Streamer, I own also a Schecter.

[@joearlinghaus8497]

Alf, I concur with your findings. I am so temped to build a Ric 4003 with Peavey T40 wiring, and (2) humbuckers. What humbuckers would sound good in such a build? I have built one out of maple and with two ceramic Musicman style humbuckers, but with Ric 4001 wiring. It was OK, but sounded like a MusicMan. I just tripped over an Allparts AlNico5 MM set with the 4 conductor wiring, and am so tempted, to build the next with the T40 wiring. The magic of the T40s wiring is the coil tap is wired into the tone pots wiper lead. Pickup Suggestions? Do Rock On !

[@WhichBass]

Hey Joe, sorry for the late reply, I been away. That is a killer set up! Good grief. I don't think I'd do your humbucker suggestion justice! Sounds like you have more experience in that deparment than I do. What about a Thunderbird pickup?

[@danielphillipsmusic9145]

After years of trying different basses I ended up back where I started. On a P bass. Two to be exact. My stable is a Fender Custom Shop Time Machine 55 Precision and a Fender American Vintage 57 Precision Reissue. The split coil P (57 and later) is considered the standard for a reason. However, the longer I play the more I gravitate to my CS 55 P. There's something about the original P bass design. It's so spartan. It pushes you to bring out more in yourself. Single coil, mid position, tone and volume control. Straight into a full tube amp. Yup, the older I get. The more I think Leo got it right the first time. The single coil P has a smooth punch. Not quite as aggressive as the muscle of the split coil, or as thin and smooth as the articulation of the two single coil J bass. It's a unique sound that I've found can literally do anything. Mute it, play with your thumb and pull on the tug bar and roll your highs all the way off like Leo intended and you can get almost upright like tubby tones, pick between the pickup and bridge still muted and you get a killer "tic tac" style sound that old school studio guys used to use two basses to get. (sometimes an upright and a Bass VI, sometimes a "dubby" bass and the VI) Fingers by the neck and highs rolled in a touch? Straight Lewie Steinberg on the studio cut of green onions. Fingers back between the pickups and bridge? Jailhouse rock. Take off the mute? Up for some ZZ Top? That's all with Flats. Rounds opens up a whole other possibilities in the alt-rock section of tones.

[@Chad_Sandridge75]

Thanks for the great content Alfie! P bass would have to make the A list for me. Other than that well done. 👏

[@WhichBass]

Thanks Chad glad you enjoyed the video. What would you put in your S tier?! I'm dying to know!

[@johnhughes3796]

Just to correct you the Sterling short scale doesn’t have a two band EQ unlike the long scale versions, it’s passive.

[@gianlucabassi8853]

I love the squier jazz with zoom B1 and hartke 25. Cheap very good bundle

[@BYLRPhil]

If you’re gonna do Fender and Music Man, you HAVE to do G&L!!!

[@davidcampbell7831]

Good point. G&L was conspicuously absent. Top notch quality.

[@WhichBass]

I need to play a G&L before I can comment on it! Maybe next time!

[@BYLRPhil]

@@WhichBass well, next time you’re in Idaho drop me a line, I’ve got one you can play :-)

[@trance9158]

My basses of preference are Yamaha RBX, TRBX, and BB series basses. Gibson Ripper basses. Original BC Rich series basses. I currently own a Yamaha RBX 375, Yamaha TRBX 305, and Spector Euro 4. Yamaha makes phenomenal basses at any price point and has for decades.

[@Kemet09]

I had an Aerodyne I got from my luthier buddy who re-radiused the fingerboard and swapped in EMG active pups! I swapped it to another buddy who goes thru gear like water. Wish I had kept it! He got to me before I played it a lot and started to like it!

[@Domination93]

This was a fun video, you should do more tier rankings. Also what’s you’re opinion on the new Ibanez ehb1000ms basses?

[@WhichBass]

Thanks M! Glad you enjoyed it. Ibanez ehb1000ms?! That's a mouthful. Just had a listen. I'd like to give it a try, there's a brilliant honk and bite there I quite like and I've just realised, it's a Barolini pickup! Haha. That's why I like the sound.

[@NicolasBenoit-w8w]

Really cool, I would have liked to see a Schecter like Hellraiser.

[@Cruiseangel72]

This is a one stop video. All you need to know about bass from price ...comfort.. Style.. Amazing Alfie.

[@WhichBass]

Cruise, you flatter me as always, thank you very much

[@russell90ful]

Really enjoyed this video I've just got a fender Mexican p bass maple fretboard I've put a fender high mass bridge on it I was thinking of putting Seymour Duncan quarter pounder pickups in it not sure would sound better but might put money towards a Mexican jazz instead any thoughts of doing a video on amps I've got fender rumble 40 it's ok but would like some ideas when ready to upgrade stay safe

[@WhichBass]

Thanks Richard, glad you enjoyed it. I have very little experience with preamps so I wouldn't be much use in that department!

[@dwarden3]

Love my BB, great tone.

[@WhichBass]

Great choice! Which model do you have?

[@egroegmcdonald9870]

I had a BB fretless. I had to let it go but I do miss it.

[@edsfkna]

If you want an amazing bass for the price, try schecter studio elites. I love mine.

[@WhichBass]

I'll give that look thanks.

[@tommichaels2466]

An excellent alternative for the Hofner is actually an Epiphone Viola Bass. I bought one for a Stone Temple Pilots tribute and we will sometimes recreate their MTV unplugged show in which he plays a similar hollow body violin style bass. I love this bass a lot more than I probably should. It's half the price of a Hofner and twice as versatile in my opinion. The pickups are much brighter and much more modern sounding. I can get a great acoustic bass tone or even an overdriven hard rock tone... although it admittedly doesn't look the part. It's an awesome practice bass too because it's short scale and lightweight build is easy on the back and fingers for long sessions.

[@AaronScutt]

I love my Peavey T-40 and my Peavey Foundations too!! Best bass for the money if you ask me, USA made. I also happen to know that Which Bass Alumni, Rex Brown, started on a T-40 and still loves them.

[@MinecraftAndIndie]

Give me your T40

[@AaronScutt]

@@MinecraftAndIndie Lol, I could never part with it.

[@MinecraftAndIndie]

@@AaronScutt sad!

[@WhichBass]

Lucky man! That's right Rex is in the Peavey Appreciation club. You're with great company!

[@requemao]

This is a two-year-old video, yet its current title says 2024. This is a shitty move, and I've come only to say this: There is a button in each video thumbnails that drops down a list of options; one of those is "do not recommend this channel to me again". I click it, and I urge others to do the same, when channels engage in bad practices like this.

[@MrRawnch]

Very entertaining video and fun to watch. Best to keep in mind that this is just an opinion and not based on any industry facts. I know lots of journeyman bass players that make their bread and butter with most of the instruments listed in tier B. I'm a huge Peavey fan (own a T-40 and T-45) and I wouldn't use the T series for any serious gig work -- however, they are great for recording and studio work. My list would be consistent with industry norms and what is used the most for recording and live gigs.

[@WhichBass]

Thanks Mr Rawnch, I'm glad we're nearly on the same page! I 100% agree, the B tier basses are literally industry standard and have their place. I won't take that away from them. In this video I wanted to demonstrate what would go the extra mile and possibly for a better price.

[@altabox1]

Hey, I am looking for my first ever bass guitar, you helped me a lot! Looks like Peavey for me. However if you have infos about the BMG Bass (Brian May Guitars), I am open minded! :)

[@WhichBass]

Hey Alta, I'm glad this video helped your choices! I have no info about BMG, bass only I'm afraid!

[@antioche6276]

comments for the algorithm are cool. But that video was cooler. Also let's all admit that the Dingwall should have been in S tier. With people such as Lee Sklar using them for everything, and its core metal appeal, it simply shows how versatile they can be.

[@jarreddean9054]

They sound very specific, great for programming or when u need a bright tone they're great but not super versatile

[@craigmoran893]

@@jarreddean9054 Nearly every video i've seen of a Dingwall they use the exact same pickup setting - that's why you may be thinking they sound specific.... 3 pickups and a 3 band EQ, or you can run it in passive. There's heaps of sounds in there. I'll admit they are bright, but hey, you can turn down the treble knob!

[@jarreddean9054]

@@craigmoran893 fair enough I will admit I haven't heard them in that many different contexts. I'm sure there well made instrument's just give me my jazz bass any day🤣🤣

[@antioche6276]

@@jarreddean9054 I know the feeling. I just scored an 83 jazz bass, but I'm just too hooked on my current parts Jazz loaded with duncans Quarter pounders.

[@WhichBass]

100% agree!

[@tonyrayjames3526]

I have owned just about every bass on this list and I agree with most of what you say, a few of my thoughts, Spectors are a hi-fi sound if that's what you are looking for it's a good bass, I don't like Rics or Thunderbirds , Rics look cool but weak output and they play and are built like junk, I owned a Thunderbird for one month hated it, Ibanez I completely agree with you just not my thing, Warwick I owned a 5 string Thumb it was a good bass, I have only played a Wal one time it reminded me of Alembic great bass but for $$$ it should be. T-40 was my first good bass built like a tank and a lot of tone, Hofner I have no interest in...I own a '78 Stingray it's classic tone when you want that sound, I would add that the G&L L-2000 is a great bass, but for me I always come back to Precision's to me even though they me be simple they are the still bench mark.

[@williamdavis5831]

First stimulus; Fender American Ultra Precision Bass. Second stimulus; Fender American Ultra Jazz Bass. That D neck w/ compound radius, Nailed it. Both ash with ultraburst finnish.

[@ileutur6863]

What? My stimulus was barely enough for a pack of strings

[@juzek1958]

Well presented. I've played an active Jazz Bass (Fender Custom Shop) for the past 24 years and it's been a constant love affair. I'd played a Precision and a Rick 4001 previously and although both are good basses, I found them lacking (just a little) in their own way (and me less experienced).

[@WhichBass]

Glad we're on the same page Juzek, thanks for watching. 24 years on a custom Jazz ... Colour me jealous!

[@kijekuyo9494]

While I agree with some of the negatives you listed for the violin bass, you could at least give mention to its light weight and playability. That's important to many people.

[@massttrshrdrharmonicminor2002]

Sir, I own a peavey millennium active 5 string from 2006. Would you play it?

[@WhichBass]

Sure!

[@davidlovellbass4761]

Great video, really like that this was done from the perspective of UK prices. Just a few things I’m not sure your right on, Lakland Skylines are made in Indonesia after shifting production from Korea in 2010 and changing up the pickups and preamp in line with the American made series. The Ric price shown on Thomann is before tax, after its well over £2k

[@WhichBass]

Thanks David! Glad you enjoyed the video. I didn't know about Lakland moving shop, my bass is from 2003 so I hadn't given it any thought.

[@davidlovellbass4761]

@@WhichBass my Lakland 5502 is from one of the early ones too 😀

[@L3Gutierrez]

I had an SR Ibanez bass a few years ago. It's had a 2 band preamp, but the pickups lacked any character. It sounded very flat

[@kevmac1230]

No, Warwicks' look like Spector.A couple worth mentioning: Guild Pilot, G&L .

[@void0094]

Guild Pilot basses are very unknown but I love them.

[@Coastal_Cruzer]

Warwick's are amazing

[@kevmac1230]

@@Coastal_Cruzer Yes they are,but I believe Spector owns the rights for the body and headstock.

[@edwardbrown561]

Yeah I'm surprised no G&L, especially with all the Fender talk

[@kevmac1230]

@@edwardbrown561 I know, right?

[@Shenesy1]

G&L L2000 is the pinnacle of Leo's bassness, if you want to know where Leo would have taken Fender and what the instruments would be like look at G&L, it's his final form... The Stingray is a cool transition though, but he wasn't trying to emulate or recapture the P-Bass tone as you said with his later works, Leo was all about evolution and progress. I doubt he even thought much about his earlier works at the time. Fender wasn't his and he had CLF, infact Fender flat out said no to his designs and innovations when he was still consulting, they were more than happy to pump out the same old designs.

[@donaldjessop690]

Cannot agree more with this ^