Do numerical pain scales mean anything?

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Come and see the previews for my new untitled stand-up show on 10 February, 24 March and 23 June. Grab tickets now: festivalofthes...
Check out content from folk who bravely contributed data to the Schmatt Pain Index:
Mark Bowler: / @afieldbiologist find out how we captured these insect in his latest video: • Catching the most pain...
Michael and Dani: / the_wayfinders_
Hugo Cliff: / hugocliff_rainforest
Greg Foot: / gregfoot And Greg is doing a new schools talk "Rainforest Lab" www.gregfoot.c...
Thanks to Rainforest Expeditions for inviting us to visit their Research Centres in Peru and facilitating us getting stung by things in a safe environment. Read more about the research being done in the rainforest by Wired Amazon. They take science research volunteers as well as offering paid trips.
www.wiredamazo...
/ @rainforestexpeditions
/ rainforestexpeditions
Huge thanks to my Patreon supporters. Their support never stings. / standupmaths
CORRECTIONS
None yet, let me know if you spot anything!
Filming and editing by Alex Genn-Bash
Written and performed by Matt Parker
Produced and drone piloted by Nicole Jacobus
Animations by William Marler
Music by Howard Carter
Design by Simon Wright and Adam Robinson
MATT PARKER: Stand-up Mathematician
Website: standupmaths.com/

[@standupmaths]

Thanks to everyone who volunteered to be stung, and to Headspace headspace-web.app.link/e/SUM for sponsoring the video. Let me know what your favourite sting was and why it was Michael and the Wasp.

[@bartholomule]

16:34

[@acelm8437]

I wrote a comment here before, but now it's gone

[@ДимитърИванов-д3ш]

you picked 30k, comparing it to the first sting, but humans are not very good in comprehending such big numbers, so if you'd compare it with sting number 3, would you rather get stung 2000 times by sting number 3, than 1 of sting number 4? (you gave 15 to sting 3, so 30000/15=2000)

[@YamaKangaroo]

Is there any way we can get your KZbinrs to go do your pair wise comparison? I'd sign up!

[@Iklu-w1p]

If you are already in pain from another insect, your new sting perception will be distorted. It may feel more, or less intense.

[@ouroya]

you're quite the mathochist

[@Xnoob545]

Omniarchive reference

[@chrismanuel9768]

Ha! That's good

[@damplamp]

mathochitht

[@RobinDSaunders]

The real question: how many bullet ant stings are equivalent to one of these puns?

[@broncogrizz]

Attributed to Mike Tyson?

[@BANANAROFL]

Cannot understate how much I appreciate not having to turn the volume down every time someone screams. Editors are s tier on this channel.

[@ancientswordrage]

I hadn't even noticed, and that's really good!

[@thethunderant9208]

Now eat a ghost pepper to recreate the Scoville Scale from scratch lol.

[@davidalearmonth]

Or eat a bullet ant? :)

[@Abhay0505]

Or a Carolina Reaper or Paqui one chip

[@OliverMarkewärn]

pepper x is 2 steps over ghost pepper, made by the same dude. but this is a much better experiment to run, since you can measure scoville in both amount and heat through capsaicin

[@macgyveriii2818]

Would that also be the Schmatt scale? Do we go with Scarker Scale? Moville scale?

[@Accipitercooperii]

Isn’t the Scoville scale based on how much you can dilute it and still detect it? So you don’t need to experience it raw to give it a number.

[@sambojinbojin-sam6550]

The best part of having a maths company: you don't have an ethics committee to run things by before you "science" stuff.

[@kezia8027]

lmao no one thought to require mathematicians have an ethics committee, suddenly all the end of the world theories about paperclips and similar are starting to make a whole lot more sense...

[@StuffandThings_]

Ah I think we just found a loophole Uh yes this experiment with mice is _definitely_ about maths... 100%... just look at all of our equations!

[@sambojinbojin-sam6550]

@StuffandThings_ what precisely is, the human explosion quotient for a certain amount of pizza? (It's over 4 large pizzas I hope, because that's how many I just bought). Don't worry, it was for the family. But there are things we need to know. And graph....

[@KenLieck]

But you can't have maTHEmatICS without ETHICS, even if they are a bit scrambled...

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

The mad scientists were stopped by the amount of paper works. The mad mathematicians? Oh, they had nothing stopping them.

[@ronwingrove683]

NGL, I thought the macro lens in the bullet ant shot was a shotgun barrel and that it was a pretty extreme way to remove an ant from Matt's arm.

[@JosGeerink]

It's the Laowa Probe Lens

[@energyーy]

It's to test the theory that bullet ants are worse than getting shot.

[@eggs8021]

Well I mean It is called a bullet ant

[@Radix.Strategy]

"Interspecies shotgun wedding" came to mind here.

[@DavidNorthMusic]

Maybe for a Chimera Ant.

[@MaartenMID]

Matt: im not going to overreact to the bullet ants sting. Also Matt: gives a score two orders of magnitude higher than all the others

[@fghjconner]

The most mathematician way of overreacting.

[@Ellanion]

On the other hand though... they agreed when they saw his number.

[@dylanhenry3310]

yeah, but he wasnt writhing on the ground like Coyote

[@sotek2784]

Given his explanation, though, I actually kind of think the rest of them were miscalibrated; they were thinking instantaneous pain, not pain over time.

[@shawnington]

When after the second one, he was asked about factoring in time, then in the end, he bases his number completely on how many stings per hour it would require. Lovely lol. Measurement realities change when you get real data.

[@GregFoot]

pleasure to join you on the trip mate (the stings, less so!)

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

haha get stung

[@HaniaTauqeer-c2k]

Are you the guy from the bbc?

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

@ I think so

[@mykeljmoney]

⁠​⁠@HaniaTauqeer-c2kyes, if you click his profile picture/name it’ll open his KZbin channel. His profile description on his channel confirms he’s been a science communicator and has worked for the BBC.

[@douglasparkinson4123]

yes, that is BBC greg foot

[@NoobixCube]

My main takeaway from this is you can really spot the people who work in the rainforest and get stung by things every day. They rate the pain high, but they're all just "oh, yep, I'm being stung now".

[@MagicGonads]

they rate the pain high relative to the base wasp, which might not be very high in the first place compared to others

[@DragonBank]

This is the biggest issue with the Schmatt scale of pain. The unit being indexed to is way too low relative to most things on the scale. ​@@MagicGonads

[@anima94]

@@DragonBank I feel like Matt was the only one that made the scale work because he framed it as being stung every second for that time, the others were completely out of luck trying to multiply it by feel

[@kezia8027]

I don't have much to contribute to a channel of this size, but I did spend the last 5 minutes rewatching 20:00 to 20:10

[@adamrath8109]

That part was crazy!! And he said he wouldn’t overreact…

[@xavierlebeuf3061]

Thank you for this very easy to click link to the best part of the video!

[@patrickwigmore3462]

I made sure to also spend a good amount of time rewatching the bit "right at the end", between 36:31 and 37:23, which is the obvious part to watch after watching the bit between 20:00 and 20:10.

[@FlorianMickler]

Thanks for the time marks! This should be pinned :-)

[@rebmcr]

Came back today, after contributing to it on release day. Looks like it worked! Well done us.

[@bad.D]

Mark absolutely TANKED those stings.. the bullet ant got him for a solid 10 seconds, you can tell he's a dedicated scientist.

[@rogershakespeare3889]

Definitely made sense when he talked about the warrior wasps attacking him at height.

[@threeholepunchmike3549]

15:36 had me laughing and i came looking for this

[@1.4142]

The score should be how much as painful as the previous sting, because people are worse at thinking in bigger numbers and they have already forgotten the first sting by then.

[@philopharynx7910]

They should take the stings in pairs between every possible combination in order to reduce variation.

[@NoriMori1992]

Agreed!

[@fcuk_youtube]

lol this video was so funny for their reactions alone, but yeah I kept thinking recency bias must be a thing to consider when doing something like this

[@kezia8027]

@@philopharynx7910 make it 3 for redundancies, just in case! 🤣

[@Kenionatus]

But then you have stacking randomness.

[@Ms.Pronounced_Name]

22:20 "that thing that looks like a sniper rifle, isn't" That's precisely what someone at Sniper Rifle point would say!

[@summarity]

Great micro-study on how chronic pain can change your whole personality. Compare everyone bubbly bonding over the novel but short experiences of the first stings to ... just constant pain for a long time.

[@kezia8027]

As someone who experiences chronic pain, I definitely noticed a HUGE mood shift, though while I did put it down to the pain, I hadn't really put two and two together, but it certainly 'feels painfully accurate' if that pun doesn't sting too much

[@Tinil0]

It's not really a microstudy of that at all though, there was no comparing it to someone who had chronic pain. This information by itself says nothing about how chronic pain can change your whole personality. Having social benefits with shared pain doesn't really mean anything for long term pain obviously. But I do kinda wish now that someone with chronic pain also did this so they could compare it. I feel like sometimes it makes me more sensitive to pain and sometimes it makes me more resilient to pain, not counting mood shifts. It's really hard to say exactly what it does to your perception of pain in my experience except "make it wonky". I no longer can accurately predict how badly something will hurt or how that pain will affect me, simply because sometimes I grossly underestimate pain and sometimes I grossly overestimate pain...

[@harbivore451]

I had just taken it to be the result of having a done a whole day filming, having just had dinner and it being the evening. Rather than from the pain directly. However, that just shows how hard it is to isolate variables in any scenario..

[@BridgeBum]

​@@kezia8027Another chronic pain person here (fibromyalgia). I do my best to keep spirits up and not let it get to me, but there are some days I am irritable to everyone around me. It sucks, and I try to fight it but some days there is no hope.

[@THICCTHICCTHICC]

Honestly chronic, or even just relatively persistent pain will absolutely destroy your brain after a while

[@MarkovChains223]

I just realized the acronym for Stand-up Maths is "S.U.M." Idk if that was intentional, but i love it

[@garyg3927]

😎

[@brendancskinner]

15:33 "Under the skin is where I keep most of my blood". I'd argue it's where you keep all of your blood. Unless there's something you're not telling us Matt?

[@niceguy191]

Some of it is in the skin

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

Well you know, depends what you mean, if its right under your skin, or anywhere within ur body then theres under other membranes like the respiratory and digestive tracks those have quite a bit of blood

[@blaz2892]

If you keep all of your blood under your skin, you also keep most of it there. `Most` is a loose subset.

[@JustAnotherMe]

You've heard about "skeletons in the closet" but have you heard about "blood in the ...." I've said too much.

[@arcana5335]

All the SERIOUS doomsday preppers have been drawing their own blood in case of emergencies for years.

[@prestonjensen6172]

19:57 i can't believe his reaction to getting stung by the bullet ant

[@HavokTheorem]

It was so chadpilled

[@DakavesKaves]

😂😂

[@Jose-Sousa]

I see what you did .... xD

[@DoctorTemblor]

genious

[@DariusBaktash]

My wife (neuroscientist who works with insects) and I (clinical research) would love to do a proper, proper shmattified pain scale with blinding controls like black box (no visual of the species), controlled bite and injection timing, compound and stinger separate from species (e.g. 3d printed stingers), etc.

[@aFieldBiologist]

Perhaps we can provide the rainforest?

[@bobh6728]

It would be hard to duplicate (3D) the stinger mechanism. That is part of the pain, depending on how it penetrates the skin and not just the toxin.

[@DariusBaktash]

@@bobh6728 We're now at the point where we can do some pretty amazing replication of micro/nano structures so long as the project funding is there.

[@fariesz6786]

i volunteer as a tribute

[@picassodilly]

I was wondering if there was a more directly numerical way to measure pain- like by measuring nerve response or something like that?

[@JamesCoutie]

36:30 "We'd need a lot more people to get stung by a lot of very painful insects"... Now that's a call to action if I've ever heard one!

[@kezia8027]

I mean, I honestly think you could probably relatively easily find people online who would be willing to be stung by 2/3 insects as part of some giant initiative, so long as there was enough PR behind it. It might get harder to find people willing to get stung by the "worse" ones, but there are also thrill seekers out there who seek out danger/pain so even then, I'm sure if it was made accessible through some scientific initiative, people would willingly offer their bodies up for scientific research, give them some enamel pin that says "I got stung for science" or something idk it honestly seems surprisingly feasible if one had enough of the right connections...

[@HunterJE]

Next patreon reward: A pair of stinging insects! Please state your preference by return post.

[@dielaughing73]

Sounds like he wants us to try it at home

[@MichaelOnines]

I love the arbitrary precision implied by picking "288" wasps at 32:58.

[@Petch85]

289 would just be too many 😂

[@MeesterG]

I feel you one that 30,000 though xD

[@Phlosioneer]

It’s a multiple of his previous number. Which was a multiple of his number before that.

[@MichaelOnines]

@@Phlosioneer 288 isn't a multiple of 44 and 44 isn't a multiple of 6. Not sure what you are trying to say.

[@MeesterG]

@@MichaelOnines well, not a whole multiple maybe... But 7 1/3rd is a multiple too? :p

[@jaspermcjasper3672]

5:30 - When Matt says "time to Tango, Ranna", Mark Bowler's facial expression (and mine too) registered about a 4.9 on the Schmidt Pain Index.

[@qwfp]

I'd say people have trouble with large numbers, so it's hard to imagine being stung by 300 wasps. And compare that to being stung by 3000 wasps. Maybe it would be better to use the previous sting pain as a "unit" for the next value, to keep the numbers smaller?

[@kezia8027]

yep, I think they'll need to redo the whole test to really get it right

[@danstratyt]

In theory you can just compare to previous value though. It the same measurement. If you said 4 potter wasps is the same as the tangorana ant then you would be subconsciously using that as a metric as well. Greg did exactly that

[@Calakapepe]

I concur ​@@kezia8027

[@IstasPumaNevada]

19:55 I'm doing my part! That was so good I watched it at least 20 times. ;)

[@EliteCuttlefish]

There's no reason not to do direct comparison since the pain was so localized. Let's put these numbers to the test. On Matt's left arm he gets stung by the bullet ant and on the right he gets stung for a total of 30000 times by the wasp. At the end of the day he chooses which arm he could do without. It wouldn't give the actual answer (unless it was exactly equal) but it would give a constraint. Rinse and repeat until the actual value is achieved.

[@pleasestopsubscribingtomyc3360]

ok jigsaw

[@danilooliveira6580]

his number makes sense, because the bullet ant is a constant pain that last hours, but not necessarily very bad. while the wasp is a small localized pain that don't last very long. so for him the pain of the bullet ant is the equivalent of being stung in the same spot every second by the wasp.

[@TheReaverOfDarkness]

I am interested to see how multiple to many calibration wasp stings scale. I hypothesize that each new sting will initially feel less important than the ones before it, but after some critical mass of venom the venom toxicity symptoms will begin to present, and at that point each new sting will seem to scale up much more rapidly. And to anyone being a test dummy, say goodbye to at least one night's proper rest.

[@antoniofigueroa887]

Why is no one talking about being stung 30000 times!

[@danilooliveira6580]

@@antoniofigueroa887 1 sting a second for 8 hours is around 30,000 stings. that was what he meant, it felt like the sting of the wasp but constantly for 8 hours.

[@Lucifers-Stepdad]

I occasionally forget that matt is Australian. This is a reminder that he absolutely is Australian.

[@redryder3721]

19:56 the bit where Matt gets stung by an ant. Saved you lots of searching

[@tandemcart1234]

Perfect. I watched a few times to help build the attention spike. Hopefully that helps people who just want to scroll through :)

[@jjbeast098]

Looked for a comment like this as soon as I got to this part. Excited to see the attention plot

[@maragazh9993]

Bro cares more about seeinf someone in pain than the mathematical concept being discussed (the point of the vid)

[@klapsvin]

@@tandemcart1234 same here

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

@ you havent watched the section mentioned yet, have you? hehe

[@kruksog]

Really cool life you lead Matt. Seeing eclipses in the arctic, getting stung by bullet ants in the amazon, writing really excellent books... I'm jealous, that's all I'll say!

[@standupmaths]

I’m very fortunate!

[@kruksog]

@standupmaths hey, so long as you recognize it, I'm cool with it... (Obviously, I'm a fan and was always cool with it, but I am glad you know how fortunate you are!) Cheers, Matt. Come to Seattle for something someday, so I can get you to sign all my stand-up maths stuff!

[@dielaughing73]

​@@standupmathsyou've 100% earned it, mate

[@placer7412]

@@kruksog bro you live in seattle, thats kinda highfaluting from where im at is all im saying

[@Mike-y5f2x]

1:53 i'm not skipping to the end, this kind of madness deserves all the watchtime

[@Flying-Bunny]

Also I'm tempted to rewind to another spot to prove Mat wrong :D (but that would be alone).

[@WilliamLund-o1d]

@@Flying-Bunny 20:00

[@Flying-Bunny]

@@WilliamLund-o1d yep, I commented before the video. But also, that would prove him right, we need to find another spot

[@krisrhodes5180]

@0:40 and after his little speech about overdramatic ant bite videos I'm fully expecting Matt to end up screaming like a child

[@DNVPIVIN]

Everyone else wrote down based on "how many wasp stings at once would equal this amount of pain" so it just looks like Matt would rather be stung by 30 thousand wasps over his entire body at once rather than a single sting on his arm lmao

[@ancientswordrage]

I think that's the point

[@leocurious9919]

@@ancientswordrage But it is not, it barely hurts at first and then quickly ramps up really hurts for hours(!). You either need 2 categories (instant and lasting pain, for seconds and hours) or make it as "it would take x of the previous every [duration of pain] than this".

[@kezia8027]

@@leocurious9919 the other problem, I believe the length of time would HEAVILY influence the following time in pain, ie. the 5th hour probably sucks more than the 3rd even if the specific moment of pain is at the same level.

[@HavokTheorem]

20:10 I rewatched this like 50 times, I couldn't believe that was actually your reaction. Lowkey badass.

[@Aziraphale686]

I'm feeling really seen right now. Every time I go for a pain management checkup and they say what's your pain right now from 1 to 10 and I'm like, I DON'T KNOW IT'S ALWAYS LIKE THIS.

[@kezia8027]

god that is a mood. Hope you're having a good day today 💖

[@samarnadra]

Make a scale like this of your pain experiences compared to each other, and making it into a 0-10 scale. you can find examples of those done by others online to compare to. my is kinda logarithmic. then reckon to that

[@CoreyKearney]

Right, like how do you explain that according to their scale you hover around 5 or 6?

[@Ellanion]

"10 is the worst pain you can imagine" Okay... I guess this kidney stone might qualify as a 1.5? I have a really vivid imagination.

[@TheRedPhant0m]

⁠​⁠@@samarnadrabut that would just be like everything besides this a 1 like i accidentally cut myself with a knife and would give that a 1 me with pain meds was 4 and without was a 10 but saying 4 when on pain meds and they would not believe me

[@thomasesr]

At 19:43 When Matt says they are in safe hands, Aracely gives a side eye and a smile. Like she has killed before 😶

[@kezia8027]

"ha don't worry these fools have no idea" 🤣🤣

[@wizzletide9179]

"It's a remove your own ant situation." got me real good :D:D

[@glenmorrison8080]

This video provides an excellent example of how research _plans_ get complicated when they become research _practice_ . There are always aspects you don't consider ahead of time, and only discover part way through experimentation. And then at the analysis stage, another great demonstration of figuring out how to analyze data with unexpected characteristics.

[@federicoalcantara4796]

3:44 haha love their reactions "yep" "huh yep" "hah ye" "huh yep"

[@vladthemagnificent9052]

basically, 1 on schmatt scale is the sting that makes you go yep

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

@@vladthemagnificent9052 as opposed to the sting that makes you go no, which seems appropriate.

[@YoeyYutch]

"Hasn't Got A Title, Don't Really Know What's Going To be In It, See Some Of You There" sounds like a good title to me.

[@EllipticalReasoning]

27:44 I want to mention for the record that the warrior wasp is the third insect to score a 4 on the Schmidt pain index

[@bill-7718]

this video is the combination of my absolute biggest fear, and insect stings

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

haha bloody gottem

[@z0ru4_]

@@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369your pseudo says it all

[@matthewstuckenbruck5834]

I know, Matt Parker terrifies me too.

[@tinhoyhu]

Maths?

[@AnasHart]

@@matthewstuckenbruck5834 he'll give you a Parker Scare

[@ScottMyersOfTheEarth]

19:57 Reaction to the bullet ant sting is really incredible!! Gosh!!!!

[@ronnodas]

To average ratios (where both the numerator and denominator are varying), you should be taking geometric means. This will mean that the average ratios will also multiply correctly, ie avg(ant/bee) avg(bee/caterpillar) = avg(ant/caterpillar). This is of course equivalent to taking the arithmetic mean of logarithms.

[@RobinDSaunders]

+1, came here to say the same thing! Hopefully some comments will help get the algorithm's attention :)

[@nikotheboss6524]

Was going to suggest this too, especially since the ratios for the most painful insects are kind of products of individual ratios for each insect compared to the last

[@onemadscientist7305]

I mean, we have the full data. Anyone less lazy than me can do it.

[@Justjustsayin]

Suppose you could measure the neural activity resulting from each sting, a) at the sting site, b) in the brain. Would either of these measurements be affected by your perception of the stinging creature ( imagine large, evil, hideously ugly alien with a highly elaborate stingy thing)? Would either be affected by the certain knowledge that the sting was causing permanent damage or death?

[@scbtripwire]

I feel like rolling around on the rainforest floor will only make things worse... that's where many insects are!

[@michelfug]

7:32 hehe, the qr code even contains an ant 🐜

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

hehehe

[@andymcl92]

I was very impressed with that

[@TommiHimberg]

"That thing that looks like a sniper rifle isn't." Well, there goes my theory of where the bullet ants come from.

[@terpman]

The interesting thing is that pain is so subjective. The social context, your state of mind, what you THINK a proper reaction should be, and the overall situation you're in all play into how your body and mind decide to feel and respond to that pain. There's an interesting psychological experiment to be found here too. Get a different set of volunteers, have one of them be a plant and the first one to get the stings (in view of the others). Then have the support staff/experts hype up how painful each insect is. I'd hypothesize the other volunteers would have much stronger reactions than we saw here.

[@tamara3984]

Totally agree. As a chronic pain sufferer I apparently never behave 'right' for the pain I suffer, however, after 20 years I wldn't have much of a life. 😂

[@ShadowManceri]

These tests also need to be done "blind" because there is social effect in play. You might feel more or less pain depending how you see others to react. They are not lying per say but it affects their actual feeling.

[@ncallaway12]

This video was amazing. The only thing that would’ve made it better is making it a bidding game. High bidder gets stung by that many calibration wasps, low bidder gets stung by the insect again. Not sure how that would work in a hospital setting, though…

[@beemerwt4185]

I love this just because it shows the real process and various problems when doing an experiment. A really good example, I think, is around 17:00. Greg said it was "3 times more painful than the ant before it," concluding it was 9 times the calibration wasp. Then Nicole said it was "30 times more painful than the calibration wasp." These are obviously subjective measurements but it's what you're comparing to that might throw the statistic. You might see a reduction in the outliers stemming from this reasoning if you had a bigger sample size, but it's exactly these unpredictable confounding variables that make it so challenging to design an experiment in the first place. Really great video!

[@walternullifidian]

I remember, when I was in the hospital last year, seeing a show on TV (Kings of Pain) where a couple of guys would be purposely stung by various things in order to assess the levels of pain involved with different critters. It was fun to watch, but only because I didn't have to be stung myself!

[@Oltoir]

@15:30 "It stung me through the skin. And under the skin is where I keep most of my blood" 😂

[@t.o.mirite]

thats just personal preference, riɡht? i keep it all stored in a biɡ tank at home, so that any wanderinɡ vampires cant ɡet blood from me

[@HildeTheOkayish]

​@t.o.miriteinteresting! Can I come in to see?

[@mihailstolz]

Choosing the "Flight of a bumblebee" for the wasp sting was a pleasant touch.

[@kruksog]

Props to homie at 24:45 ish, making sure to get a good shot. That's a man who understands good content creation.

[@NoNowwwell]

Imagine if he did 9 insects and the numbers made a perfect number square, to sequel the parker square.

[@MariaNicolae]

Regarding the point about using a log scale: it is generally true that humans perceive the intensity of a stimulus to be logarithmic to its objective, measured intensity. For example, a light whose power is increasing exponentially will be perceived as increasing steadily in brightness, and a sound whose pressure amplitude is increasing exponentially will be perceived as getting steadily louder (hence why we use decibels, a logarithmic scale); this is called the Weber-Fechner law. It's entirely unsurprising, then, that pain works the same way.

[@IceMetalPunk]

Our perception of chronology works similarly. We perceive time scales relative to (roughly) our entire lifespan, so as we age, the same time scale feels shorter and shorter. It's why 5 minutes for a child can feel like forever, but for adults, it's nothing and an event from decades ago can feel like "just yesterday".

[@tubegerm6732]

​@@IceMetalPunk fun fact: that's not actually true at all. just because you read it on the internet, doesn't make it true. really, the more you think about it, the less sense it makes. and even if it was true, that's not what a logarithmic scale even means.

[@IceMetalPunk]

@ Okay, first of all, that isn't something I "read on the internet". It's something I learned in various psych courses at my time in uni. And secondly, I didn't say it was exactly logarithmic, I said it was similar in how quickly the perception scales compared to the actual scale change.

[@EebstertheGreat]

@@IceMetalPunk There is no evidence for a logarithmic scaling of time perception relative to age. A more plausible explanation is that children are impatient. There is some limited evidence for a logarithmic scaling of time perception relative to duration, in the sense that subjects tend to subjectively average time intervals close to the geometric mean rather than the arithmetic mean. On the other hand, that could have more to do with the mental process of averaging than experiencing time. Even if time perception does slow down as people age, a logarithm would be a terrible mathematical model for how it happens, so it's not related directly to the Weber-Fechner law.

[@MariaNicolae]

@ If it was true that we perceived time at a rate reciprocal to our age so far, then it actually *would* be logarithmic in a sense, since the integral of a reciprocal is a logarithm. I do doubt that claim for other reasons, though. First of all, it would imply that the perceived time since you were born or sentient is infinite, and second of all, if we sidestep that and start counting from 1 year old, then it would imply that, at only 23 years of age, I've already experienced about 70% of my expected perceived lifespan, which seems counterintuitive.

[@ShinySwalot]

13:03 Nicole going "I win" is so funny to me hahaha

[@DanSchaumann]

Thanks Matt & crew for putting this together for Science. The most entertaining video I’ve watched in a while

[@grahamsmall9280]

This is one hell of a video, and just brings far more credibility than any of the other Stung video creators.

[@TheQuicksilver115]

We're 5 mins in with a rate of about 1 visceral-pun-groan/min, this video is already amazing 😂 This is certainly not what I expected and I LOVE it 😂 It just keeps getting better and better too, so many brilliant moments! Incredibly entertaining, we love maths!! 👏👏👏

[@happyjosiah]

Warrior Wasps are also a 4 on the Schmidt Index, along with Bullet Ants and Tarantula Hawk Wasps. So yeah, I'd say getting attacked by 12 at once while suspended 100 feet in the air is probably indeed a good deal worse than a single Bullet Ant to the arm in a controlled situation.

[@0rderofTheWhiteLotus]

Watched this channel for many many years, but this really truly takes the cake. What an exceptional concept, video... ahh everything. Love it!

[@DanSchaumann]

I know, right? I thought the same. Such an interesting & entertaining concept for a video, a mix of maths, biology and ecology, it’s one of his best!

[@bugman3164]

Once when I was in Costa Rica, I thought it would be fun to let a bullet ant walk up on my finger... It walked up onto my finger and promptly stung me on my knuckle. So, maybe it had something to do with you keeping your arm upright during your opening segment that kept you from receiving a premature sting. Also, yes, the sting hurt very, very badly for quite a long time. In fact, I think that I would have much rather have had that bullet ant sting me on my arm (as in the video) than on my knuckle. The bone + hammer as described in the video is an apt description as it felt as though my finger was being smacked repeatedly by a hammer.

[@Abrogator91]

Wow, i watched that "Brave Wilderness" video ages ago and ever since ive been convinced that the bullet ant bite was an absolutely brutal event. Thanks for showing that, while the sting hurts, its nowhere near as bad as that guy made it look.

[@crunchyfrog555]

Length of pain is big one for me. I've got spina bifida, so I get a fair amount of spinal pain and knock on pain. More than this I get occasional kidney issues and the pain from that is horrendous. It's severe but it also is relentless. I have got used to pain through having the constant stuff always there, so I've learned to block it out through diverting my mind. This takes a fair amount of energy even though it's somewhat automatic. You get knackered easily. But when the kidney trouble starts it's severe, but at first you can deal with it. As it goes on, because it's relentless you just cannot put up with it anymore as your energy depletes. The worst I had was having a kidney stone during COVID. Calling for an ambulance meant that due to the issues with the NHS, I had to wait with this pain for 16 hours. I never want that again.

[@jh5401]

i LOVE the callout of viewers skipping to the point you got stung on the video 😂😂

[@robertk1701]

22:22 Wondering why they have a gun pointed at him. Certainly not to kill the ant. Maybe to put down Matt if it the pain is too much? Oh, it's a camera.

[@A.F.Whitepigeon]

I was envisioning some sort of compressed air system to puff the insect away without harming the person or touching the insect.

[@mozkitolife5437]

Matt, these are the kind of videos that people need to keep in mind when watching entertainment channels like Brave Wilderness versus your channel that includes actual science. There are tools and methods that people remain oblivious to while attempting to describe objective phenomena.

[@Pay-No-Mind]

I hadn't realised how bloody big Bullet ants were! That things a monster compared to your standard black/red ant! :O

[@RhynoD2]

23:00 Matt absolutely dunking on all the other KZbinrs doing this and I'm here for it.

[@iThing89]

I like how casual this video is about pain. Its nothing more than for example saying "oh, Im so hungry right now. I am 132 hungry!". After all pain is just another thing we experiance every day.

[@toolebukk]

I immediately thought it would make sense to think about this logarithmically.

[@Bluhbear]

19:57 is certainly the portion worth watching.

[@fnanfne]

16:43 was not expecting that, laughed out loud, good show guise!

[@julianvillaruz]

I feel like it would've been better if they rated each sting in terms of the previous sting instead of the potter wasp's

[@lexnellis4869]

Heyy! It worked! I did my part early on to get the spike in the place you wanted and I'm happy to see I wasn't the only one. I'm glad this didn't turn out to be a "Parker Spike".

[@1CM69]

Looking forward to next part with reptiles & snakes, you could use some terrible PYTHON code 😂

[@Kendoujo]

15:30 "under the skin is where i keep most of my blood" 😂😂😂 got me

[@maxgarber9934]

I feel like the scale breaks down around 10ish. At that point the experience becomes more about just the pain and you have to factor in the effect of getting swarmed

[@BucketCapacity]

As someone with a degree in math who also grew up watching Jackass, I absolutely love this video. By the way, Steve-O recently did a ranking of his most painful experiences, and a glove full of bullet ants was his 3rd most painful.

[@marpheus1]

One thing I'm a little bit disapointed about is the lack of scientific names alongside the popular ones. As a myrmecologist (I study ants) I'm fairly certain the bullet ant you are using is _Paraponera_ _clavata,_ but I can't be sure. I have worked with a species that belongs to the same subfamily (Ponerinae) thats called _Dinoponera quadriceps._ A colleague of mine got stung by them five times after his masters degree presentention as a "rite of passage" of sorts (of his own free will). I personaly have never been. Only by _Odontomachus haematodus_ (trapjaw ant) which as far as I know hurts way less than Dinoponera. We work also with _Neoponera villosa,_ also called formiga cobra (Snake ant), that is said to hurt WAY more than _Dinoponera._

[@Squant]

He had to omit the scientific names so that disappointed myrmecologists in the comments would have something to contribute.

[@SimonBuchanNz]

Myrmecology is an incredible name. Well done getting that one ant stans!

[@RaindropsBleeding]

As a hobbyist myrmecologist I too was disappointed by the lack of scientific names. I somehow always forget that Dinoponera have stingers because their main talking point is how massive they are. I've never been stung by them. I think the worst sting I've gotten was Solenopsis invicta. I've also been stung by Pogonomyrmex occidentalis, but that's like having a spark from a fire land on your arm and letting it just sit there vs brushing it off immediately

[@kujmous]

29:41 This is objectively hilarious. Well done!! 😂😂😂😂

[@ssojjoss]

Love the detail in the QR code for headspace having an ant in it! 🐜

[@MarieCrossbow]

Mark is so brave and calm throughout the video.

[@Verlisify]

I'm excited to hear more videos were made

[@idontwantahandlethough]

If this doesn't make this channel absolutely blow up, I don't know what would! This is algorithm GOLD!

[@TheOriginalJohnDoe]

You basically shattered Brave Wilderness his KZbin career and reputation by this video 😂

[@bobross2577]

People already have, and still people defend him like their life depends on it

[@coaltowking]

Matt's 1 Potter wasp sting per second for X hours approach definitely identifies him as the mathematician of the bunch.

[@screenoholic]

19:57 best reaction to getting stung by the bullet ant 🥶

[@terracottapie6872]

Exactly, I did not expect that 😯

[@danny_yellow]

“With Aracely we know we’re in save hands!” Aracely: 😬

[@Rubrickety]

Headspace is the perfect sponsor for Matt. He has so much of it.

[@-danR]

The ad is less painful to see than a bullet-ant sting, but still... 🐜

[@GinjaLeviathan]

Hi Matt, I met you in a pub a few months ago, I was working there. So cool that you're in the amazon, i've always wanted to visit. I'll be reviewing the Schmatt pain index thoroughly

[@uwekretzschmarify]

Poor median being ignored. Standing in the back and making a long face while knowing that handling outliers would be the strong suit

[@ClementinesmWTF]

Median doesn’t work for this kind of measurement. Geometric mean does though.

[@kito323]

15:35 "that's got me. Yup. Thank you." *lady keeps holding the bug on arm* "Ow.."

[@kito323]

okay I kept watching now and the guy legit lost trust to the bug-handling lady and decided to do it himself next time xD

[@Skappy616]

The moment you said that the sting is at the attention spike I had the same idea of manipulating the spike to be at a different position. I just didn't know yet which part people with the same thought could coordinate choosing

[@Plut0-YT]

Made a solid 30 rewatches xD Great idea Matt!

[@Flat_cones]

the schmidt index was originally just worked out by how many times mr. schmidt said "schmidt" when he was stung

[@heighRick]

Thanks Matt for the mathematics and the video, helps a lot! Ooh, a stand-up show

[@bleepbloopblahp]

Aracely's reaction to Matt saying "we are in safe hands" was brilliant.

[@abydosianchulac2]

"Can you assign a numerical value to pain?" Every patient in (at least) the American healthcare system: "Huh, what a _fascinating_ question!" [Edit to add:] The final bullet ant scores is actually a decent example of why having a scale for comparison is helpful for this. The fact several volunteers offered values several orders of magnitude lower than Matt's but would have agreed with his assessment suggests if they'd known that their scores were "allowed" to go that high they would have responded that way. Perhaps if the index were described logarithmically (not naming a value between 0-10, but asking if pain were in the tens, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, etc.) people might feel free to be more frank and might better assess what they're experiencing.

[@andrewbacon3583]

How I feel today: 🤔

[@jimjjewett]

For those not aware, doctors often ask you to rate your pain on a 1-10 scale. They rarely provide any calibration points, let alone guidance on whether it should be linear or logarithmic. Though it turns out *they* don't think in orders of magnitude, so don't go full on "I am alive and conscious, so it must be way below 10"

[@dielaughing73]

​@@jimjjewett on TV shows they always qualify the scale with "zero being no pain and ten being the worst pain you've ever felt', which seems pretty redundant

[@rogershakespeare3889]

This was a great video. Thank you to Matt and everyone who voluntarily got stung.

[@ShinySwalot]

This is the type of content KZbin was made for lol