Do Vintage Golden Era Steinways Sound Better? Yes, some do!

[@moranplano]

I really do enjoy your videos. But, tell me, how can Steinway prevent anyone from refurbishing their own piano? And why would they try and do it? Are older ones so much better, when restored, that fewer people want to buy the new ones?

[@ThePianoforever]

A well built vintage Steinway can indeed rival, and in many cases, outperform a new Steinway. The real problem, however, is a great deal simpler. Steinway is for sale! The present owner is an investor, who purchased Steinway just a few years ago with the goal of doubling his money, but no one seems interested at that price. A Chinese firm, funded by the Chinese government seems to be the only interested party, but even they don't seem to be willing to pay the price being asked. Steinway has, for years, not sold certain parts to rebuilders, but now they are not allowing rebuilders to use the Steinway logo on the fallboards. It is my opinion that they are destroying the companies future for short term profits.

[@moranplano]

@@ThePianoforever Thank you for your well-informed reply. Once again, it seems, that GREED has reared it's ugly head to try and destroy what was originally, a work of LOVE and MASTERY.

[@stevenvanstadenvanstaden4317]

I can understand Steinway not wanting their name on a piano the quality of which has been altered (for example, a new soundboard) but I'd like to see them legally challenge someone who's rebuilt his own piano to his taste. For example, Renner hammers are hard and need a lot of voicing, but still the new ones are sounding twangy . Perhaps an owner would prefer Abel, or American hammers on a Hamburg Steinway, or vice versa (I've seen many of the latter and think they have lost the NY quality of sound). Imagine car companies trying to legally prevent people making major alterations to their classic cars, for example replacing drums with disk brakes, or boring out the engine, are changing problematic air suspension for springs. Steinway always has been arrogant, but they are becoming more so. I agree that many older Steinways are far superior (a matter of taste) in tone to newer ones. That 1936 NY model D on one of your videos, for my taste, is a wonderful example - even as heard on video, and when it is re-strung I hope you'll play it again so that we can hear the modern copper-coiled strings in that region of the bass that had archaic strings. There's a piano instance of my car example! Keep up the videos. So many interesting pianos!

[@MiG2880]

Gibson guitars has been using very similar tactics. They even released a promotional video, threatening people over the use of their guitar body shapes and logos. They also destroy brand new guitars by driving over them with a caterpillar - for insurance purposes... Now millions of guitarists are boycotting them for their greed, lack of decency or artistry. Just another corporate whorehouse. From what you say, this seems to be the path Steinway is taking, too. Mess with artists and you will get stomped... Financially speaking.

[@The6pruz]

Yes, Gibson guitars is/has tried similar tactics as Steinway. World-class banjoist Bela Fleck bought a 1937 Gibson Mastertone, one of the finest banjos extant on the planet. He bought it around 1980 for $5,000, and today it is worth about $250,000. However, it was originally a 4-string model, and he plays 5 string. World-Renown luthier John Monteleone built Bela a new 5-string neck, and arched the fingerboard (most banjos have flat fingerboards). It gets dicey when someone makes modifications, rebuilds, or even just necessary repairs to an exquisite old instrument and then wants to restore the Gibson name on the headstock. You used to be able to get a decal to put on the headstock that said "Gibson" when you made repairs to an instrument that contained nearly all Gibson parts and was originally made at the Gibson factory in Kalamazoo. Somewhere along the line, unscrupulous people began putting Gibson, or Fender, or Martin decals on crummy guitars and tried to pass them off as vintage instruments on buyers who didn't really know. Now those decals are essentially impossible to come by. As a builder says in the Modern Marvels' Steinway video, "You can easily get something to look like a Steinway, but getting it to sound like a Steinway is a different matter altogether." I don't know what the answer is--there are conmen everywhere. But Steinway refusing to sell authentic parts to established, reputable repair and restoration businesses seems greedy and wrong.

[@dapro2848]

Love the look and the sound. Glad it was rebuilt.

[@radiorexandy]

What a beautiful interpretation of the Debussy masterpiece played on a magnificent instrument! AND, THIS TIME, YOU PLAYED THE WHOLE SONG!!! BRAVO, JAMES! :-)

[@rhondablanchard8840]

What a jewel of an instrument. I wish it was sitting in my living room.

[@finderrio]

I know right? Who made pianos look so gooood man

That test piece moves me to cry. So melancholic....you need to write a piece around that. ! Thank you!!

[@smudger671]

Your enthusiasm is infectious. Just wish I had your musical talent and was able to actually play the piano!

[@carl2180]

Yes, you are right. The piano is very sparkley. Great job. Always play. Never stop in your life. Bring the beauty out. Thank you.

[@interstellar618]

I bought a 1904 Stienway model O from Kims Piano at the Stanton showroom. They did a partial rebuild and full refurbish. It's like a work of art. Plays beautifully and give the most wonderful tones. Steve Kim was our tech and is second to none. Since I move away I have yet to find anyone remotely comparable

[@CaresinVerse]

Your expertise and musical skills are a great combination. I agree, this piano is a SUPERB baby grand! I am a Clair de lune fanatic and your playing that, on this piano, made me tear up. You fill a much needed niche with your videos. Thank you🎼❣️

[@bobmoisey692]

Very likeable video and the sound of the piano was exceptional for it's size. Listened on earphones and you were right about the bright treble, especially the three or four you pointed out.

[@ninjaassassin27]

James, have you ever considered becoming a piano technician? Seems like it'd be right up your alley! Also, the O (especially old models) are impeccable. The tone is stunning. Wait until you get your hands on a model S! Tuned an original 1927 S with real white ivory key tops still on. Unbelievable in every way, really a museum piece.

[@boldcautionproductions9203]

James likes everything about the piano - a Rennaisance man. He probably has planted trees to make his own piano when they're grown.

[@rikspector]

Good Evening, James. I noticed there was a very nice tone balance between the left and right hands, especially early in the Debussy. . It is a powerful instrument for the size and I would imagine the major difference playing a Grand would be in the dynamics and possibly the overtones. I love the music of the Impressionists,Ravel ,Debussy Satie etc. I could Zen out listening to you play their music. AS ever, Cheers, Rik Spector

[@krisbiebs8507]

I love the way Steinways sound. One day maybe I'll be able to afford one.

[@ItalanFindart]

Spectacular piano!

[@matheusalves1237]

I really like the sound of this one, it is superb! This time I felt like you were not really pouring yourself into playing this piece though, IDK just a feeling... Anyways really like your channel and I always want to visit the stores after you do so! Hahaha. Hope you keep up the great work and find that love for Debussy again.

[@pauljmeyer1]

A well-recorded demonstration and the sonic qualities of this fine instrument weren't lost to me.

[@HandwhistlerBen]

The sound is as gorgeous as you described. What a Fantastic Instrument! I have always been partial to Steinways, preferring them over the bottom heavy Yamaha. I was a big lover of Rubinstein recordings. He pulled everything out of the Steinway that he played. There is such a warmth to this and to our Steinway, with all the richness and harmonics sounding more like a Grand than a Baby Grand. My Dad purchased a Baby Grand Steinway in 1955 that was built in 1940. My Brothers and I grew up playing it daily and we all took lessons for many years. You are right about those two bright notes. They bothered me when you first played them.

[@kermitthemutantlevitatingfrog]

6 completely unique Steinway pianos like that were on board RMS Titanic when she sank, one of them still exists mostly intact, even the intricate patterns done with gold leafing is still on its sides, the only thing keeping it from being raised though is that its partially buried by debris.

[@brucetominello7440]

Nice piano. My Steinway, Serial number 52856 was finished on June 22, 1886! The case is American Empire of East Indian Rosewood. It retains the ORIGINAL key action and ivory keys, no chips anywhere. It was refurbished in the Steinway factory and now resides on the mezzanine level of the Musical Instrument Museum in Phoenix, Arizona. Should you ever wish to play it, I can arrange for you to do so.

[@ThePianoforever]

Woah, that's cool! I would love to get the chance to do a video on it, I will be traveling through that area in about a month. You can contact me privately on this webpage if you like. aloveofmusic.com/Contact.html

[@cannedmusic]

While you were playing Clair de Lune I got up, went to the kitchen, then the loo. The piano is most impressive, it sounded much like a very high end 10 foot. There wasn't any transition in tones between treble and midrange, and midrange and bass. The midrange was warm, but not too thick or too warm, if that makes sense.

[@TheVigilantStewards]

i thought the same thing

[@seanbryant2848]

You brought tears to my eyes...

[@jackherlihyusa]

James, this instrument is truly a jewel. This Model O and the Model L are indeed Grand Pianos and not Baby Grand as you stated in the video. Grand pianos are classified by size as petite baby grand, baby grand, grand, semi-concert grand, and concert grand.

[@ThePianoforever]

There's a lot of dispute over what makes a piano a "baby grand". I tend to refer to any piano under 7 feet as a "baby grand". Some people like to refer to pianos in the 6 foot range as "parlor grands" which I sometimes do too. But smaller pianos have many names, and there really is no right or wrong name.

[@davidmckinney6577]

I'm glad you played my favorite song Claire de lune.. the base sounds good to me. I have my earphones on listening to you..

[@PaulFerzoco]

A beautiful sound- you are absolutely right!

[@OE1FEU]

I'd like to invite you to Vienna, Austria, to play my 1886 Hamburg Steinway B which has recently had its action completely reworked. You'll be blown away.

[@shoutyman9922]

My speakers are not the best, but the piano sounded great - really great. However, I always thought that printing "Steinway and Sons" on the side of the piano was a bit kitschy and leaving it off would be a good thing. Or better yet, have "John Paulson is a Philistine" printed on the side instead.

[@mimoochodom2684]

Beautiful piece.

[@lostinbeauty7129]

I went back and listened to this a second time using headphones instead of the little external speaker my laptop is plugged into, and I have to say, I completely agree. What a warm, resonant, full sound from such a small piano! I get what you're saying about the need for a bright treble to compete (wrong word; not a competition, but you know what I mean) with the rich, sonorous bass. But like you I did find some treble parts a bit too bright. But since it is newly restored, won't playing it temper that brightness a little? Lots of questions and thoughts on the issue of restoration and authenticity, but I won't bore you with it here. Might be an interesting topic for a future video, though?

[@karstent.66]

Hamburg is that City in Germany where a Steinway Production line can be found. The hamburger you can eat comes from a different location ;)...

[@clive6479]

Also, bin ich ein hamburger?!

[@rickperlstein9988]

I see my Boston GP-178 PE II 25th anniversary special draws inspiration from this instrument, with the modulated brown would on the inside and silver hardware! I think you'd like it.

[@supertrampfan1]

James, appreciate your videos so much. What a gorgeous sound this Hamburg Steinway O has! I'm currently in the market for a piano. I would greatly value your input on how the action of this piano felt to you. Thank you.

[@ThePianoforever]

I think you would find the action to be amazing. If you are in the area or going to be in the area let me know as I will be at Kim's in Stanton in about a month and would be willing to answer any questions in person. My android does pick up replies to comments so start a new thread or send me a email.

[@mingwxu885]

amazing

[@carlbowles1808]

That baby Grand piano sounds like a grand piano. Clair de lune is an excellent test piece that brings out the full capacity of the instrument. I'm a Steinway fan and understand why it doesn't want this type of restoration. Steinway wants to sell newer pianos for more money. It's nothing personal just business. You are good keep doing what you are doing.

[@paulsmith1981]

Its bad business in my opinion, restored vintage Ferrari don't impact on the sales of new Ferrari in the slightest, I believe the exact opposite is true.

[@domodepiano]

the Hamburgs i have found on the occassions i have played them generally spoke to me more than the US ones on a whole (a few rare exceptional US ones have wowed me though), Hamburg does have the dreamy C which i feel is almost perfect in terms of size and balance vs power output, those are dang good pianos too, great feature, it's August, and Kim's still has this on their site so the right buyer just hasn't connected w this very special instrument yet, it's a gem

[@ThePianoforever]

I'm starting to believe that some pianos should just sit, and wait for the right owner to find them. I guess I am still thinking of the 1936 Steinway.

[@ThePianoforever]

I think it's a good thing that I don't own a piano store, or I might go crazy with great pianos, and people might have to fill out an application to adopt.

[@catkeys6911]

It certainly has a nice, clean sound for a baby grand, even if I have to be honest and say that I would never mistake its sound with that of a full size concert grand. That would, after all, defy the laws of physics. But this is a nice, full sounding baby grand, no question. I certainly would have loved tuning this one compared to most of the pianos I used to tune.

[@TranscendentBen]

Steinway is NOT keeping others from rebuilding Steinway pianos, but rather it is no longer selling or authorizing Steinway decals to be put on pianos rebuilt by others. Of course, the plate (frame) will still say Steinway. I'm a member of the Piano Technicians Guild, where the situation has quite a few piano rebuilders upset. Steinway will itself gladly rebuild an old Steinway at the factory, put the Steinway logo on the newly refinished fallboard, and of course charge Steinway money for it. Regardless of what's on the fallboard or side panel, there are rebuilders who will continue to put out great pianos like this. Maybe with their own names on the fallboards, some rebuilders will become as renowned as some of the big manufacturers. The way you find them is not to look at the name, but to play and listen, just like James does.

[@victorlloyd5271]

I was on a tour of the New York Steinway factory a couple of years ago and I noticed that they had a number of instruments in production with silver colored harps in addition to the gold colored ones. Someone I was with asked what the difference was between harps and the response was; "The difference? -- color". So I guess you can opt to buy a new piano off the line with either a gold or a silver harp.

[@temptress123]

Beautiful!

[@lawrencekurtz191]

This piano Sounds like the 18'9" Alexander The sound is wonderful.

[@ancientrose3330]

Beautiful :)

[@chuck1prillaman]

I cannot imagine why Steinway thinks they have ANYTHING to say about whether someone rebuilds any piano but if they try to stop it by not selling replacement parts, I'm sure someone will be happy to fill that market niche. Even the Chinese can make high quality products if the price is right.

[@Finians_Mancave]

I'd imagine the biggest concern isn't 3rd party parts (Plenty of quality 3rd party part makers out there)... but the Steinway decals are another matter. Even if someone started making their own Steinway decals, I wonder if that opens up potential copyright issues...?

[@boblon5693]

well its because after market parts are both cheaper and of higher quality. This piano is why they are doing this as the older rebuilt ones are usually better than their new ones.

[@anderander5662]

Who is the rebuilder.?

[@pianoplayer56723]

Wow! I need to check out Kim's piano. By the way I just bought a Kranich and Bach 9 foot grand from the 1920s. Sold my Estonia. Will need lots of work from my technician but can't wait to hear the end results!

[@danielwhite9595]

I had not known Kranich and Bach made concert grands though I am not surprised. I'm curious as to how you encountered this behemoth

[@gregoryallan3137]

I forgot to like your videos so I am going back through them all to make sure I do. I was a bit hypnotised by the sound...

[@ThePianoforever]

Thank you.

[@ethan123456ish]

Great piano! Do you happened to know if this piano used the hot-pressed or cold-pressed hammers? Pianos from this era should have been using the cold pressed hammers?

[@imy0urpapa]

I have a new york Steinway model O sterling edition. It looks EXACTLY like that...same color combination. Has similar sound too though mines a little more crisp. I agree it is THE BEST baby grand....even though mine is not a Hamburg version. I have not found a piano i love so much. I'm so glad im not crazy and the expert agrees! Lol

[@bernardofitzpatrick5403]

Pretty ebony finish & silver harp - richly, crisply, stylish, sparkly baby grand, dude. It just begs to be played! Sad about Steinway & restoration. Mid range sings beautifully. Debussy - oh man can't get enough ! :-D

[@thepocketboy]

I know I've recommended clair to you... But I'm not the only one. Sounds incredible great job. Ps try playing clair on an old piano that's in desperate need of regulation. Ugh it's impossible to make sound good cause none of the notes hit simultaneously. Like trying to play after too many drinks haha

[@ThePianoforever]

Sounds like you might have some experience with that.... 😀 Would be fun to see how horrible clair de lune sounded on a saloon piano.

[@amaymankad121]

If I want to play your test piece where can I get the sheet music for it?

[@davepianist84]

Wowww James your are absolutely right, that piano is amazing, I've a question tho, if the piano is between 5'8 and 6 feet isn't it a parlor grand?

[@ThePianoforever]

Parlor grand is a lesser-known term, and I used the name baby grand to avoid any controversy over the name parlor grand. I used it once before in a video and had a few people confused. But yes, you are correct.

[@davepianist84]

@@ThePianoforever Thank you James! Thing is in here we use very different terms, for example for pianos that are below 1.70cm are 1/4 de cola, between 1.70 to 180 1/2 cola, 1.80 to 2.10 3/4 and above that we just say cola completa, pretty fun hehe

[@pnoman316]

A 5'10 isn't a baby grand its a parlor grand and a model L I think is even more powerful as the tail is wider and squared off similar to a concert grand! Just my opinion.

[@LionStreetTM]

How much was the Hamburg Steinway going for?

[@ThePianoforever]

You would need to contact the dealer for that information.

[@kimspiano7578]

Completely Refurbished Hamburg Steinway & Sons Model O Onyx Special Edition Nickel Plate/ Nickel Trim Serial Number: 151391 Year Manufactured: 1911 Regular Price: $85,800 Call me [phone] for special discount pricing. We offer any of James' viewers a substantial discounts. Ask for Steve R

[@fishchrome1332]

The Steinway O is my favorite piano due to its reasonable size and rich sound, and this example is glorious. Thank you James for another great video. BTW, what is the name of the beautiful Bach chorale that you played?

[@slehman805]

Have you tried a hailun?

[@erichstocker4173]

How much of the sound is due to the rebuild vis a vis the original Hamburg-O implementation?

[@markjaylandes]

Sounds great even through my crappy phone speaker

[@carlosmagno1112]

Som maravilhoso !!!! Piano Alemão, fantástico !!!!

[@bandarock96]

Keep uploading. Great videos. The piano is gorgeous. Maybe some day I'll get one for myself (after winning the lottery)

[@jonasvanzurpele3940]

Anyone who knows the name of the Bach song? Thanks a lot!

[@Shadow-qn2hk]

i feel pianos are like pets. You go to the shelter/piano store see which one you get along with and you like. Then you buy them give them a home and they are a part of the family.

[@nomebear]

I had a late 20's fully restored at a cost that came close to price of a new piano, and it was worth every penny that I spent on it.

[@SillyMediumGoodball]

This comment has some powerful energy

[@clive6479]

Lovely tone - indeed, it could be a much bigger instrument. I found a 1900 Hamburg-built baby grand (# 95239) this week that had a similar tone, in spite of the need for some attention; they are both absolutely lovely. I read an excerpt of Steinwayś statements about re-building and selling the pianos. Some of them made sense; others were just awful, protectionist nastiness. Soon, we will read about "jail-breaking" pianos, for goodness' sake. It will be interesting to see how the European courts treat this, if it ever goes that far. As always, an interesting and enlightening review. Thanks.

[@prestige2000rider]

Has a tone and emotion in a class of its own. my Piano teacher had a new York Steinway, D, which im guessing is a different animal again. But that hamburg, wow.... Play it again sam

[@urielstud]

BTW, that’s a great idea to go around to shops like Stanton and maybe get sponsorships. Yeah 🤟

[@nickbamber268]

Steinway can't stop restorers from restoring. They can only try prevent them accessing appropriate components. They clearly don't want comparison between their current production and the golden oldies for obvious reasons.

[@dylanreischling4151]

That is an amazing Steinway. Kinda puts the rest of them to shame

[@brucetominello7440]

I forgot to mention that my Steinway is a Model C.

[@marcostramaglia3153]

Wuao i listen it whit hadphones gorgeous

[@neilloughran4437]

Sounds amazing, I was thinking of getting a Model O at one point but the price is a fair bit more than I would be willing to fork out (I went for a Yamaha C3x in the end which is a little bigger at 186cm). Funny you consider 180cm a baby grand but I know the differentiation of the piano sizes isn't standardised. The site www.steinwaynaples.com/grand-piano-sizes/ has some nice distinctions.

[@csu111]

How can Steinway stop anyone from rebuilding a piano they own? Steinway needs to get over itself.

[@eduardoquirino8131]

the first piece you played reminds me of Ludovico Einaudi

[@moldenburg909]

Great! Really great. 👍 And that for a baby. 😀

[@supertrampfan1]

Couldn't find your email address. Would you mind posting it in your reply?

[@ThePianoforever]

Try the contact page over at aloveofmusic.com

[@kimspiano7578]

Completely Refurbished Hamburg Steinway & Sons Model O Onyx Special Edition Nickel Plate/ Nickel Trim Serial Number: 151391 Year Manufactured: 1911 Regular Price: $85,800 Call me [phone] for special discount pricing. We offer any of James' viewers a substantial discounts. Ask for Steve R

[@cww4888]

How can Steinway stop someone from restoring a piano, after all the person owns it.

[@Finians_Mancave]

They can't - except in one crucial area. Steinway CAN refuse to provide "original Steinway" parts to rebuilders. Now that's not a problem for most rebuilders who prefer third party, better-quality (subjective, of course) parts -- but the Steinway decals are another matter. Even if someone could create their own Steinway decals, I believe that becomes a copyright issue so....

[@katek9333]

@@Finians_Mancave I have a 1901 Model N Steinway upright just completely redone. My Technician artfully left the original decal on it, carefully blending the new finish around it...

[@laurayeesnover631]

W0W!!!!!!

[@danielwhite9595]

James, it's only $. I think you should treat yourself. Don't be regretting the one that got away

[@ThePianoforever]

If I was looking for a baby grand, this would definitely be a strong consideration for me!

[@raymondwagenhauser5228]

Those three pedals are interesting, they are not period and are "New York" style.

[@kassemir]

I seriously don't get that stopping rebuilders thing. How do they have any legal stance in doing that? It's an instrument, you own it, you can do to it what you want. Imagine if guitar companies tried stopping people from changing the pick-ups or something like that. They'd be ridiculed. Is it like a thing where they're preassuring stores to not carry rebuilds by not giving them new inventory if they do? Ridiculous!

[@ThePianoforever]

I feel it is the end of Steinway as we have known them.

[@InterestingStuff888]

Mick Jagger's son

[@bob733333]

Once you sell a piano, you don't own it anymore. You can't dictate what people do to it after you sell it. Silly people from the mid east.

[@johnrflinn]

Steinway shooting itself in the foot by not allowing restoration of vintage pianos.

[@donprior9144]

Unless you use all original Steinway parts you can not sell the piano as a true Steinway but a re-manufactured one. Of course you can't put the name back on it yet as Steinway has forbidden anybody to produce their decal. It is yet to be determined in the courts whether you can make your own or paint it on. Time will tell. Most think Steinway is shooting themselves in the foot over this. I have heard that some rebuilders just put their own name on the piano. The plate stills says Steinway on it. Lets hope they don't make rebuilders grind it off. I have a 1916 Steinway M rebuilt by me in 2000 and its to die for. Sounds like it should be a 7 footer. By the way nice playing.

[@ThePianoforever]

I will have a video coming out tomorrow on this same subject. I am sure you will find the video interesting.

[@shoutyman9922]

My speakers are not the best, but the piano sounded great - really great. However, I always thought that printing "Steinway and Sons" on the side of the piano was a bit kitschy and leaving it off would be a good thing. Or better yet, have "John Paulson is a Philistine" printed on the side instead.