Do we really need to work longer? France's pension reform and the changing labour market

[@Someonesaidthis]

Don’t raise, don’t let Macron have his way.

[@hellovagim]

I wonder how is it benefiting macron?

[@ChrisPatrick-q6k]

It has to rise, it's the only way.

[@alexl7015]

I accept longer retirement in exchange for 3day work weeks (6 hours per day)

[@aimirror]

why is it that nobody mentions taxing the huge profits of last years? what would be the issue with less growth but more stability using those funds. why not create new industries like cannabis and welcome tech investment and then tax that? Aren't these not possible ways to mathematically ensure those pensions? The bankers bonuses are an insult, why can't they be the pensions of the future?

[@monizdm]

And in other news... youth unemployment in France is 20%. Lots of young unemployed males. What could go wrong?

[@dezafinado]

@@barringtonsmith9147 But if you're a professional student and take 14 years to finish university at 32, you can work 35 years and retire at 67 at full benefits.

[@jejewa2763]

People if they are so difficult will be replaced by AI, then what sitting on one' s bum for 30 or 50 years....maybe pension should be given taking in consideration the phisical nature of the job...surely a manual worker's body will deteriorate faster than a bureaubrat....

[@diegoyuiop]

Exactly, but so many French people act as if having a desk job was comparable to a mining worker in the beginning of the 20th century!

[@Luna2231ytb]

@@diegoyuiop We do not actually. Lots of protestors are from the working class, they have hard jobs and they fight because they know that by 50 their body will be weakened already. I've seen this first hand with my mother and father, they are around 50 and my mother back is damaged permanatly because of her work. We do not fight just for ourselves, but for others. This reform is unfair, especially consedering that they are alternatives and that it was forced through without a vote in the Assembly.

[@diegoyuiop]

@@Luna2231ytb they should make exceptions for particularly physically demanding jobs. The rest has to keep working

[@geoffoakland]

They should focus on the SNCF union. They can often retire at 52 plus other perks. They get a bonus called 'prime de charbon' which is à premium on their pay because they imagine they are still shoveling coal (charbon), even though they haven't used coal in for French trains for decades.

[@peperminth7236]

the name of the prime isn't related to the coal , it was a name to link the prime to the sector and not the work done . also prime and lower retierment age is obtain dus to massiv fight to witness the working condition of thoses jobs wich was and still be massivly missunderstand and even not known at all by people who arn't in thoses jobs

[@teddykayy]

Where was this guy in the US where engineers are working less than 40 hours per week? Or is he saying that french engineers work considerably more than that?

[@jojo_3]

I think he is saying that French engineers work more than American engineers. I also believe he means that both work more than 35 or 40 hours a week in general.

[@TheMrgoodmanners]

@@jojo_3 in what universe do french engineers work more than american engineers?

[@niewazneniewazne1890]

The funny part is hearing about the special poland's emergency fund for demographic crash, being dried up for current social policies. Through loans which don't need to be paid back to the fund.

[@Rollerblader091]

Ah yes, the American Engineers and their two weeks of PTO are working less than the French Engineers with their minimum 5 weeks off, plus France has a lot more holidays. I’d love to see where the guy pulled that ‘fact’ from. I doubt more than 5% of US engineers even have 5 weeks of PTO, US government doesn’t even offer that much PTO ‘minimum’.

[@jejewa2763]

In other country it is already 65 and going up to 70.... If people want to retire at 62 then put money aside with tax concession to do so...

[@phil20_20]

We are putting money away in the U.S. It's called, "Social Security." The Republicans have been reducing the benefit amount uuntil it's not enough to retire at 62 anymore. At 70 years old, a lot of people aren't alive anymore. They were robbed of all benefit. You have no way of knowing when you will need to retire as a young person. It's all speculation. If you get injured or your health decreases, it's too late, and agents work hard to prevent you from gettin any disability benefits.

[@Hamadyst]

You don't know what you are talking about... The hard works have a special pension and can go earlier compared to the others workers and they actually want to remove that

[@71518]

More billions to Ukranie !

[@patriciafuertes2711]

A crucial debate. Thanks for these important insights

[@sandkiddoASMR]

Pension may not enough for current economic

[@QueenetBowie]

Somehow all the other developed countries have later retirement ages, yet the French act like it will destroy their lives if theirs is raised just a fraction.

[@LetsChillPage]

Please stop speaking about a subject you don't master over. This will prevent you from saying nonsense bigger than you and ridiculing yourself.

[@GeorgeChuy]

The broken-back speech is as witty as it is heartbreaking. France is not the only country has undergone the delay of retirement age. When baby-boomers gradually come into the retirement, pension systems all over the world would be under great pressure. And the generation following them would suffer first.

[@jejewa2763]

Remember being on the pension is limiting the spending as it is not enough so people will get another job so maybe a combination of both might be a solution....

[@Matt-jc2ml]

They can solve this by having more kids. If the old outnumber the young then the pension issue will just keep getting worse

[@doodlePimp]

You can't use automation as an argument for working less when the competition also have access to automation. Only when automation makes up 100% of the work would that apply.

[@mariahsmom9457]

The interviewer doesnt let them speak-at all. Id like to have heard from the guests a bit.

[@diannshoemaker6419]

As a heavily socialized country, France is running out of money. The French have a very unrealistic idea, of what working for a living LOOKS LIKE. They were thinking, 4 day work weeks, when this happened. WE ARE FRENCH, THEY SCREAM. WE WON'T STAND FOR THIS. Sadly, numbers on a ledger have absolutely NO understanding of nationality.

[@fieryfirevivin]

You are forgetting the insane taxes the french pay though. Income tax. Social charges. Retraite . TVA. Succession charges. Wealth tax. , Property tax, TV tax , living occupancy tax.Dividend tax. Capital gains tax. Overall. The actual resting money the people have is only about 10-15%

[@ellojallowjallow1734]

But please am applying to all people of France 🇫🇷 as I am watching the demonstration don't spoil your beautiful country by breaking things up and settling fire 🔥. Your country is beautiful

[@patrickvirly1042]

Je peux vous rassurer. Les français sont moins de brûler le pays. Les images que vos médias diffusent sont spectaculaires mais la réalité ici n'a rien de commun avec celle d'un film de Silvestre Stalone... Ce n'est pas le Vietnam.

[@heartofthunder1440]

The whole thing is that the world is preparing for a global economic collapse, especially when certain situations pop up similar to how the pandemic caused the global economy to come to a slowdown. I hope things get better instead of worse, but you have this many people protesting, and this many people aren’t working, and it’s going to be similar over here in the United States when they take away social security benefits away, I think they are going to raise the age limit, but they may make it to where it’s impossible to even get what we paid into it, by increasing the age limit, and China can always emit another airborne disease 🦠 to make sure more people die, so these benefits don’t have to pay out.

[@Svafne]

Maybe you should try and talk to someone. I know healthcare isn't free over there but there surely are volunteers who can assist you!

[@BamBam-wh7nt]

It is possible, what you said about China, because China is also facing a looming economic crisis because of their aging population.

[@Mike-xf4ps]

Start taxing more those wealthy guy's no human needs bilions of dollars

[@richardque1036]

Hollander try that with a near catastrophy.

[@vivoentierra]

Productivity and allocation of profits are independent in current system. Increase of productivity was mostly due to heavy capital investment instead of labour, this directs the output of larger proportion to capital side, say bank, private investment institutions. It is capital and labors are fighting for product allocation. Unlike what Maxim described that workers were exploited, in mordent society less workers are needed and less hours at work. Now question becomes: without work or less work, how to allocate capital outputs in post modern time?

[@shishirshohan1690]

These people think the "corporations" have unlimited money. If there was any way to squeeze corporation for more money without reducing investment, government would have already done that. If government couldn't extract more from companies in past , that means they can't do so in the future too. So raising retirement age is inevitable.

[@atlantisssssssss]

Well, we all continue to live longer and longer, so each person will eventually "cost more" than in the past. Unless we expect future generations (people who will be stuck paying for our pension later - also not to forget that there are fewer of them than us) to be massively more productive than us, I imagine some additional years of working is just a mathematical necessity.

[@michaelmakowsky]

Vivo la Francés 🎉❤

[@robertoketer7159]

trabajar 45 años , te jubilas a los 64 y te mueres a los 70, eso es todo en esta vida ¡¡¡¡¡?????? y

[@lazeppelini123]

No

[@estren4]

How is an old population a "good thing"? Depending on immigration is not the solution, encouraging a better reproductive scale than now. And yes, increasing will make investments less and less possible😂. Come on, france, I thought yall were good at economics.

[@gamingtonight1526]

Two reports this past week from the U.N. We are going through a Methane bloom, as the permafrost melts in Siberia and the Arctic, that could raise worldwide temperatures by 3C+ by 2050. And we have another report, where they have found out the ice in the Arctic and Antarctic is melting 5 times faster than they thought. In 20 years there'll be no jobs as societies and economies will be collapsing due to lack of food and clean water, 6 foot+ sea rises, and European temperatures in the 50C+ range for 6 months out of the year, causing droughts and wildfires like you wouldn't believe! So good luck with all you French people!

[@willnill7946]

Yea ok, I was told we’d all melt by 1980, still here

[@Rnankn]

@@willnill7946 well I guess if it hasn’t happened yet, it never will. Try living by that logic.

[@answerman9933]

@@Rnankn You can be sardonic with your reply to Will Nill. But was not the earlier predictions based on science?

[@AundreiFrieght]

A 1st world country complains about working hours...

[@seabreeze667]

Why are they 1st world? The sceneries and natural resources?

[@Rnankn]

Who’s complaining? They’re demanding.

[@RAWGRIP54]

NO!.. We need more time to drink wine.

[@randomguy7175]

But 4 Nazis in Ukranie no shortage of money across Western world.