Do You Know This Baseball Rule?

[@rumblehat4357]

Runner on second is out. It doesn’t matter if the runner is on the base. The only caveat is if the ball passed a fielder (not including pitcher,) who had an attempt on the play before hitting the runner. It’s also why I tell my runners on third to take their lead in foul territory.

[@robertB2427]

Thank you for knowing the rule, Matt. I hate that more people don't know this, especially the umpires we see in our travel leagues here in Texas.

[@cwj9202]

Now that I have listened to the remainder of your video, you reminded me of a similar play I was involved in while playing high level amateur baseball decades and decades ago. I was a runner on first and was stealing 2nd when the batter smoked a grounder into my foot while I was @ 45' from second and the second baseman was covering 2B. I was not called out by the old retired former PCL umpire, as he could see the 1st and 2nd basemen had NO chance to field the ball, and that the output of the hit striking me was to the defense's advantage, for it kept me from advancing to 3rd. In fact, the next batter up skied a deep fly ball on the first pitch to the outfield, I advanced to third, and the next batter fanned for the 3rd out.

[@daifeichu]

That was you on second? Dang, took a hit in a bad spot and kept in there. Nice.

[@alanhess9306]

You should have been called out.

[@cwj9202]

@@alanhess9306 Brilliant.

[@krisandnancyboucher1277]

Marvin, at MJH-Baseball, covered this very play & rule 4 or 5 years ago. (He did some great videos, most on LL or other youth baseball. He doesn’t post too much, as his players are, I believe out of HS.) It’s good to cover this again, as many propel think the runner is on the bag so safe.

[@ericjohannsen]

No. The bag is only a sanctuary during an infield fly.

[@thomasmaher3438]

Super interesting. I didn’t know this. Thanks for posting!

[@ymcairedellbball]

Out on interference is the correct call. The base does not protect the runner, except in an IFR, which this is not. Perfect call. My only critique is the umpire should have called interference immediately and emphatically to remove a lot of the post-play confusion.

[@alvinthecat8426]

Nice job, happy holidays, thanks for posting.

[@RonDavidowicz]

Is this a judgement call, ie does the umpire need to judge weather the fielders could have made a play? Or is it automatic if the fielders are behind the base(line)?

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

That's not the rule. The ball has to get past the infielders for the exception to apply. It doesn't matter whether the infielders actually had a play on it or not. Also, there is no baseline on this play. A baseline is only created during a tag attempt. The ball was dead when it contacted the runner and no tag could be made.

[@BrandonDoesStuff1]

I feel, in this situation, that the pitcher counts as a player in front of the base runner at second… as he was in a position to make a play on the ball and theoretically interfered with the view of the baserunner. Thusly, safe IMO. Secondly, despite the rule, and in the spirit of the game, imo, also safe. If not supported by the rule… I think a change is in order.

[@MattsBaseballWorld]

Good point. My guess is A LOT of coaches tell their pitchers to only field bunts or slow plays to their left, and keep the ground balls to the infield, and the rule reflects that. Basically pitchers are seen as the worst option for infield D. Wouldn't apply to this age group since they don't have POs yet, but rules are generic.

[@bobbell1922]

The rule specifically refers to the ball passing an infielder OTHER THAN THE PITCHER. So it doesn't matter how you feel, he's out.

[@Requinix17]

It wouldn't be fair to include the pitcher because they are too close and usually don't make the play regardless even when it's hit right at their feet

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

The RULE EXPRESSLY excludes the pitcher as an infielder. Your feelings have nothing to do with the rules. Thank God.

[@dodiad]

Think, don’t feel.

[@hidesinlonggrass3229]

That's why, when you take a lead off of third base, you stay in foul territory....

[@KevinQuinn81]

Good analysis of the rule. It is pretty straightforward that there is no exception for the runner being on the base here but I always like to think of little ways that baseball rules could be tweaked to be more fair or consistent with other rules. I'm not yet sure how I feel about this one but it got me wondering if there maybe should be an exception written into the rules. It wouldn't have taken much for the runner to take a half step off the base to avoid the ball and then get back on if he wanted to but his instinct was clearly to stay on the base and I'm not sure if that's a bad thing? What do y'all think?

[@leerussel2033]

I did a high-school game and a very similar play happened. The question I kept getting was. Is the pitcher counted as an infielder. In my case, the pitcher did make a move to the ball. My partner and I stayed with the out call. I talked to the league head umpire a couple of days later . He said we might have missed that call, because the pitcher made a play. He was not there just listened to my description.

[@davidwolfe7145]

One thing I would note, and we have the advantage of scrubbing the video frame-by-frame, is that the runner hops slightly as the ball hits him. It looks as though his left foot comes off the bag, but his toes stay on the bag. The umpire, in real time, might have seen this movement and thought he took his foot off the bag. I would expect it to be an out either way. Great move by the pitcher to get out of the way. Even on a bounce, the ball could still be traveling faster than his pitch. Best to let the infielders handle it rather than trying to stop it. That's why the quoted rule exempts pitchers.

[@NXN66]

Little league and any other league with closed bases (that is, no lead offs and stealing only after the ball has crossed the plate) is where you could realistically even have a hit ball with a runner still in contact with the base. This is just another case of people applying playground rules and misconceptions of what the base does for a runner to the game. The real nuance of this rule is, as you mentioned, the positions the fielders are taking on the hit and whether they are in front of or behind the line of the runner.

[@JackBlackJames]

Could it be considered that the pitcher had a "chance" to make the play?

[@jasonfullerton7763]

The rule specifically excludes 1 from consideration.

[@NeezaamKariem]

Would it be possible to review in parallel with softball rules as there may be families or umpires involved in both, and there may be rule differences that are not known.

[@rogersmith2165]

I know its different in Softball Canada. Rule 5.10.4 (g) the runner is protected on a base provided they didn't intentionally interfere with the ball or fielder. It is a dead ball if it has not passed a fielder first and a live ball if the fielder is ahead of the base (paraphrasing). Much kinder!

[@rhody1006]

Yes, I think this is where some of the confusion stems from. USA and NSA softball of Michigan are the same as the Canadian rule stated by Roger. IDK about other associations or states. Super hard to convince men that grew up playing baseball that the softball rule is different. Weather they are coaching fast pitch or playing slow pitch them selves, they assume it's the same rule as baseball. It does make some sense why they are different as softball does Not have leadoffs at any level and the bases are 70' or less in majority of levels. This puts the runners on the base at time of contact much more often and also closer to the batter than baseball at most base distances, making the likelihood of unintentional interference while touching a base much more likely in softball.

[@markthompson2874]

Reminds me of a game when I was umpiring. Nearly same situation, I was the field umpire (standing about where the umpire was here.) I initially called out and was firm with my call. The other team is screaming at me that he's safe. I held to my call and the plate umpire told me I was wrong as well. The other team said that they were going to play this game under protest so we go to the other team to let them know. The other team doesn't want to deal with it because their manager thought I was wrong as well. So I ended up changing the call to avoid the protest situation (I wouldn't do that today.) Unfortunately I didn't have my rulebook in my bag because I had been asked at the last minute.

[@Mark-rw3kw]

Back in about 1962 I was playing in the Little League Championship game for my small town. The game was tied (don't remember the score) in the bottom of the last inning (6th inning). I came up to bat with 2 outs and the bases loaded. After several pitches, I hit a sharp ground ball just inside the first base line. There was no way the first baseman could get it because there was no stealing or "leading off the bag" by a base runner, so the first baseman played well off the bag. But the ball hit the runner on first base in the leg and he was declared out, and the inning over. Back in those days we had no lights, and because it was getting dark we had to come back the next day to finish the game, and we lost. My chance for baseball immortality evaporated and my life was ruined. BTW, I don't believe I was awarded a single, as I was the first batter up in the next inning. Obviously the runner who got hit with the ball was declared out.

[@CommonSense823]

Bigger question…. Why is the base runner on the bag on a ground ball up the middle?

[@IAm-qf2xb]

The runner at 2B was not forced.

[@CommonSense823]

@ so what? Ball hit behind him if he’s off the bag. He should be gone. Absolutely no excuse to be on the bag in that situation.

[@alanhess9306]

@@CommonSense823 The runner is out. It doesn't matter if he is on or off the base.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

@@CommonSense823 He should have a lead-off after the pitch, at least! What the hell happened on this play? No lead-off. Chose to stay on second for no good reason with a grounder behind him. Let himself get hit in the gonads. If this kid is learning disabled, okay, I understand, but what the hell.

[@CommonSense823]

@@alanhess9306No shit. He wouldn’t have been hit with the ball at all if he was where he was supposed to be. But I forgot…. They don’t teach base running in Little League. Why travel ball is where kids have to go to learn to play the game correctly. You missed the point entirely while trying to prove how big your brains are. Umpire?

[@SwiggitySwagScience]

And to add to the batter is credited with a single - there have been cases where a pitcher lost their no hitter on a runner interference! How frustrating would that be??!!

[@jimdiaz9968]

This is little league where runners can’t lead off bases like in senior league and above where runners aren’t standing on a base when the ball passes the plate. The rule should be amended for little league play. The rule makes more sense in higher leagues where runners are a body length or so off the bag when the pitch is delivered and are already in the base path. I feel bad for the runner… taking one off the cup and getting called out for his troubles. While the ruling may technically be correct if a runner standing on a base is tagged the runner is safe so why then should a runner be out on this one in a million play? There are already different rules for little leaguers and this rule should be amended accordingly for little league play.

[@LilOak]

I’m surprised the ump new the rule so fast

[@ThrowLeather]

Interesting. My son just told me it happened in his college game. After an argument from the coach runner was called out.

[@michaelmappin4425]

I honestly had to learn something new. Never saw that before. In most baseball, the runner has a lead and would not be tied to the bag.

[@Requinix17]

In the case where the fielders are in front, and the ball hits the runner, is the ball dead? What happens to the batter, does he still get a single?

[@davidwurbel6610]

It depends. If the batted ball passes a fielder other than the pitcher and then hits the runner, the runner is safe and the ball is live (exception). If the batted ball passes a fielder other than the pitcher, then hits the runner; however, a second fielder is behind the runner, the runner is out, the ball is dead and the batter-runner is awarded 1st base (exception exception).

[@zachariahkeen5002]

There is an exception tonthe exception. If the ball has passed an infielder, but there is a 2nd infielder directly behind the runner when the ball hits him it is still out. For example maybe the corners are playing in and the middle infield is playing back. If the ball passes the 3rd baseman but the shortsop is in position behind the runner to make a play on the ground ball and it hits the runner, he is out.

[@tommo9942]

not if the ball goes through the 1st infieder's legs. Once the first fielder misses his opportunity to field the ball this rule fails to apply

[@johnzzhu]

Do you think the pitcher made an attempt?

[@ericjohannsen]

The runner is out. The base is only a sanctuary during an infield fly.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

Correct.

[@davelogan3792]

Kudos to the Umpire for knowing the rule.

[@Martinb247]

I had runner called out standing on 3B because of defensive interference on a pop fly to 3b . The 3 baseman ran into the runner which was standing on 3b bag. Was this call correct?

[@davidwurbel6610]

Yes

[@SwiggitySwagScience]

Running on second is out. Batter is credited with a single and gets first.

[@williamj09]

Runner on second Is out, same thing happened to me 2 years ago, I was on third base and took my lead in fair territory, got hit in the knee with the ball cause I couldn’t see it in the dark (no lights)

[@ChrisPFDeVito]

What if an infield fly lands on the runner standing on 2nd base, hitting him (let's say on the head, for a Mark McGuire reference)?

[@davidwurbel6610]

On a declared infield fly, the base does protect the runner. However, the runner must allow the fielder to field the batted ball. If the runner interferes with the fielder, both the batter (infield fly) and the runner (interference) are out.

[@cwj9202]

The runner on 2B was safe per LL rule 7.09(k) page 145, so the umpire was wrong to call him out. That rule definitively declares that if a ground ball strikes a baserunner and no infielder would have been able to play the ball, the runner is not out -- don't know if the ball is live or not -- have to look that up. The ground ball contacting the runner was to the advantage of the defense, as it prevented the runner advancing and possibly scoring on the play -- that is if he advanced instead of staying on the bag. Judging by the shadow of the second baseman and noting the position of the SS, my judgment call would have been to maintain the middle infielders possessed no chance to field the grounder up the middle.

[@bobbell1922]

I get your point, but the rule is always liberally interpreted in the fielder's favor. There's no time to do an engineering study and plot out everyone's projected path. If the fielders are close (i.e. in the picture), he's out.

[@MwD676]

7.09k does not apply. This ball does not pass a fielder and then touch the runner. Nor is it deflected(touched) by a fielder. The rule does not definitively declare what you assert. The clause about ‘no fielder having a play’ is in reference to the ball first passing a fielder that does not touch it.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

Nope. Thanks, though. Runner is out. Easy application of the rule.

[@johndoe-yw7eb]

I don't understand why the runner didn't move. That's has all the look of a single straight up the middle, and he should be scoring from second, not standing around and dicking the ball.

[@rameybartels6291]

I smacked a ground ball up the middle the other day, and the runner leapt back to second (away from third) to avoid getting hit by it. He was then throw out at home on the play. 3rd out, final inning. We lost 2-1 (Just needed to vent about that one)

[@argpirates7352]

What if the runner is on the bag and the ball hits the bag first then pops up and hits the runner with the fielder behind?

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

No change. Bag is in fair territory.

[@jasondousett3620]

Matt, I’ve had conversations with many people about this play. In my opinion, unless there is a force play, the baserunner at two did not need to vacate his base. Also, and this in the umpires judgement, but both infielders (SS, 2B) were not able to make a play on the batted ball so in my opinion, the baserunner at second is safe even though he was hit with the batted ball. Again, this is a judgement call by the base ump as to whether the middle infielders could make a play.

[@alanhess9306]

Wrong. The runner is out. It does not matter if the SS or 2B could make a play.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

Nope. Runner is out by rule. Rules matter in baseball, not opinions.

[@jasondousett3620]

@ Well as I said, just my opinion but more importantly, it’s the judgement of the base ump… as I also indicated. Keep up. Rules are rules, and I get that, but each umpire is different on judgement calls. Some will make a judgement call different than others.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

@@jasondousett3620 Nope. The rules don't care about your opinions or feelings. Thanks!

[@danarrington2224]

The best thing about this rule is that it kills the play. I wish they would do the same thing for the infield fly rule, at least for the younger guys. Just kill the play as soon as the umpire calls it and reset the runners. That way the confusion on the field won't lead to extra outs.

[@johnsdsl]

I’m not seeing any discussion of why we have this rule. I think it’s to prevent a runner who is standing on a bag from swatting at a ball while it goes by, thereby changing its trajectory and thus preventing a defensive play.

[@t-max7261]

I was playing 3B (behind the runner) in a slopitch league last year and the bases were loaded, unsure of how many out and a sharp grounder was hit right at the bag, hit the runner on 3B, who accidentally on purpose deflected it past me with one foot while still in contact with the bag with the other and 2, maybe 3 runs scored. I was pretty sure that the runner was out in this situation, seeing as how his actions were producing a distinct advantage for his team (as opposed to the step on 3B, throw to 1B double play that I was prepared to make), but since I was (relatively) new to the league and the team on offense contained several league executives that obviously didn’t know the rules, including the umpire, since games are self-umpired, I didn’t argue it too much, since it would have been pointless and just made me look stupid, I’m sure. Thanks for bringing this up

[@rhody1006]

​@@t-max7261the softball rule in USA and NSA are different from baseball. The base IS a safe haven for runners in both associations for unintentional interference. A fair ball hitting the runner on a base unintentionally and in front of a fielder is a dead ball, runner is safe, batter is awarded first and all other runners return to base at time of pitch (unless pushed by batter). In your case, this would result in a dead ball and one run scoring, bases loaded again for next batter. In your case, had the umpire deemed the interference intentional, the runner can be called out for intentional interference weather they are on the base or not. Good luck getting either of those calls in a self umped league though. If I were in your shoes, I would have focused on trying to get the "dead ball only one run scores" call and not even tried to get the "it's intentional so he's out" call

[@bobegan2121]

So George Brett won the battle in championship in the early 80s over how McRae because the ball hit the runner and Brett was awarded a single despite the runner being out. I’m not sure though if both the first and the second baseman already had a chance at the ball or not.

[@bobegan2121]

Batting championship

[@tubes-lut]

Tip. Batter runner should run into the fielder who is not closest to the ball to get called safe.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

Yeah, that's a good point. That rule has to change. I get it. Baseball is no longer a contact sport, assuming it ever was. But what's going on is ridiculous.

[@TarotMoon]

I thought out. The runner at 2nd should have attempted to advance the hitter should push forward to second and forced the issue.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

Wut? Since when is a non-forced runner forced to advance on a batted ball?

[@RobKandell]

CUP CHECK!!

[@lummysdad]

Even if the ringer is out, I seem to remember that the batter is credited with a single.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

Correct. Runner is out. Ball is dead. Batter gets a single.

[@geraldponce8336]

I didn't know about that rule. I was thinking safe because he was on the bag? I do know about getting hit in growing 🤪 by a ball traveling over 100 mph. A pretty funny story. I was coaching at my local junior college, thowing live BP. For what ssemed like for hours. I started on the mound, and every kid wanted a piece of old Jerry, even a couple of coaches. I was doing my thing wheeling and dealing. Went through every hitter on the team. As my arm got tired, i just kept creeping up a few feet. No screen. Finally, on the last guy 👦. I thought he said you better not hit me or I will charge the mound? So I am like, well, I better throw one down the middle. Sure enough, he hits a 117 mph rocket right at me! I barely had time to say "oh #%@#", got me no cup. I almost rolled around the whole mound, and the trainer came out and everything. I asked if it was ok . He said i ain't going there. Fortunately, i survived with a good bruise. Throwing live bp without a screen for 2 hours 45' away. Probably, not the best idea.

[@shanebryant41]

I believe that the rule is the same regarding a ground ball striking an umpire. If the umpire is in front of the infield, it’s a dead ball and the batter is Out. If the Umpire is behind the infield, the ball is live even after hitting the umpire.

[@zachariahkeen5002]

If it hits the umpire in front of the defense the batter is awarded 1st and no runners can advance unless forced.

[@madganser]

I believe you, but I personally don't think that should be the rule. It isn't their fault that the ball hits an ump.

[@robertmalone9633]

Runner at second is out. Dead ball runner safe at 1st.

[@fifiwoof1969]

Batted ball hits runner, runner is out, base is not a sanctuary. Not sure of the rule number.

[@NDSean45]

Call it the "Ball bag rule" lol! Also if it got him on the gooch then a cup ain't helping him then lol!

[@davidyorke]

the base umpire signals an out...he knew the rule!

[@RamenOrwheeze]

Why was he not running in the first place?

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

Exactly. And where was his lead-off after the pitch?

[@michaelangelos5117]

Well I thought I knew the rules to baseball. Definitely had him safe. Maybe I knew it at one time.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

It comes up so rarely, i.e., when the runner does not have a lead-off.... how often does that happen? I get that this is LL, so the lead-off doesn't come until after the pitch, but the runner should still have some sort of lead off after the pitch - which he doesn't. Instead, he let's himself get whacked in the gonads. Come on.

[@sbfarmer8]

he got hit ON THE BAG! and he was on the base. "the base does not protect the runner" well yea he got hit on the bag!

[@chukyuen88]

Doesn't the runner have to make an attempt to get out of the way. He does if the other situations.

[@rumblehat4357]

Gotta love the announcers who don’t know the rules.

[@RonMcCullick]

Ball went right thru the mound didn’t the pitcher have an opportunity to play the ball.

[@AntonelliBaseball]

@@RonMcCullick pitcher doesn’t count as an infielder according to the rule

[@bradkay4794]

Everyone there should have immediately known the runner was out. They have all seen a runner on third base take his lead in foul territory

[@cwj9202]

I think the folks who maintain the runner is out are not understanding the spirit of the rule or of the game. It is clear to me the middle infielders did not remotely have a chance of fielding the grounder. The same principle applies to the infield fly rule where at a certain low level of play, a pop up hit 6/10 feet beyond second basemen has no chance of being caught -- live ball, play on. Some say the middle infielders were close. Disagree -- not even close.

[@alanhess9306]

The folks who maintain the runner is out are correct and you are wrong. This is not the same principle as an infield fly. It doesn't matter that the infielders could not make a play.

[@lummysdad]

So the runner is forced to step off the bag and be tagged out.

[@NeezaamKariem]

He could step back on, or run

[@CommonSense823]

Tagged out by who.?Forced? He should have been taught to run in that situation. You think standing on the bag while the ball hits the ground twice is correct?

[@danNat978]

Oh boy I said safe kid says out I guess he was right I remember a kid going second to third he actually went to home but was called out ump said ball hit his foot of course the kid said it never touched me coach said no he said out you are out sit down

[@AkumaAPN]

This rule is counterintuitive. If a runner has the option to stay on a base (no force), there should be no possible way for him to be called out, unless an ump sees a clear attempt by the runner to reach out & knock the ball down to cause interference. If the runner is on the bag in a natural stance, and makes no effort to move into the path of the ball while remaining on the base, the runner should be treated like the umpire or the base, as part of the field. This rule stinks, and should be changed.

[@darrylgoss5857]

A better solution in this case would be to make the pitch that the batter hit at the runner not count, or possibly be considered either a foul ball (even though the hit was actually fair), or if there were no defensive players nearby it could be called either a ground rule single or a ground rule double, depending on whether or not any outfielder would have had a decent chance to catch the ball and quickly throw it back into the infield. If the pitch doesn't count send the runners back to whatever base they were on and the batter back to the plate.

[@positively_broad_st3780]

The biggest takeaway here is that 2015 was 10 years ago...😳 Time is flying, boys and girls...

[@IRanOutOfPhrases]

Seems like a rules oversight. Should be changed to be "safe, as long as they try to avoid contact with the ball"

[@fifiwoof1969]

In future can you PLEASE not place your face over that scoreboard? Pretty please? I know it doesn't matter for this vid but others it will I'm sure.

[@ClarinoI]

If that's the rule, it's a terrible rule.

[@PhatLvis]

Bad show tricking audience into commenting so as to game The Algorithm. Better just to request honestly; audience would oblige.

[@AntonelliBaseball]

@@PhatLvis I asked for their opinion didn’t I? I don’t know what you are talking about

[@bobegan2121]

So George Brett won the battle in championship in the early 80s over how McRae because the ball hit the runner and Brett was awarded a single despite the runner being out. I’m not sure though if both the first and the second baseman already had a chance at the ball or not.