Do You Want a Serious or a Fun Camera? (Rambling about Camera Gear)

[@goodwolf152]

I think what we’re really talking about here is “charm”. Charm usually requires something unexpected, unusual, funny, unique, thoughtful, or clever. And the real trick to make something charming? Keep the stakes low. None of those “charming” things should compromise something REALLY important. It’s up to the individual to determine what is “really important”, and how much we’re willing to compromise on those things, but I think that’s the equation that ultimately results in us being charmed by a camera or not.

[@annakell5245]

Whilst there may be certain types of photography where the camera you use may need specific specs. For me what’s important is a camera that I enjoy using, where the experience is as important or even more so than the outcomes. A camera that makes me want to go out and take photos. I have both. The one I always reach for is the fun the one.

[@AlexMohammadi]

I had this same dilemma earlier this year. Decided to purchase a Leica SL3 so it has been the best of both worlds.

[@TeteRecinos]

How have you liked it so far?

[@AlexMohammadi]

@@TeteRecinos Love it, probably my favorite camera of all time. It’s not only fun to use (minimalist, amazing shutter sound, etc), but the image quality is somehow even better than my Q3. The autofocus is also finally good enough to use for professional work.

[@Princeton_James]

Ive enjoyed photography for about 20 yrs now. I don't really get "fun" vs "serious". They are all fun. Sometimes I think when people talk about this they are simply referring to camera size. Like a cute competent camera vs a larger competent camera with more buttons.

[@Cthames123]

I agree with you. I find them all to be “fun”, but I’m an enthusiast. Still, I’ve probed into exploring this “fun” feeling that some say a camera should be eliciting, but have found the whole concept to be nebulous and the definition varies from one person to the next. I like creating photographs, capturing my experiences, documenting my life and the cameras I have had facilitated all that. There is a difference between being a professional and an enthusiast. Professionals have to do it even when it isn’t fun, whereas an enthusiast uses photography/videography seeking release and fun. If it isn’t fun anymore for an enthusiast they are free to move on to other things.

[@Mojave511]

You will enjoy shooting a Leica M. Not only is it a pleasure to shoot, the results are stellar. I have an M10 and an M9. Full disclosure, after watching your photo trips to Lake Cuomo, I acquired an A7IV and the Sony Zeiss 55mm. Another stellar combination!

[@DirkMenker]

Hi Tobi, most of these thoughts are very familiar to me. I sold some great (as in professional) cameras like the R5 to get equipment light and fun. My M11 gets more fun with every use. It's a challenge and it rises the satisfaction as you succeed. But I couldn't live with the M11 as my only camera. It can do much more than I thought. For the rest there's a Zf 😅 go ahead and do it - you'll love it. Just pressing the shutter is heaven...

[@jg_jgjg]

My XH2s is my workhorse, and my XE4 with a voightlander 23mm f1.2 is my fun camera

[@janschoice3855]

Luckily I don't have the problem of making choices! When I hear you talk like this you want to go for the Leica. You have enough professional equipment to do the other things. I have already made my choice, I will go for the Fujifilm X 100 VI, if I ever have the money for it. I love your KZbin channel, like a friend who tells me his plans. Kind regards from the Netherlands, Jan 👍🏻

[@saulsigalov]

I admitally only watched 3 of your videos: First one was switching to sony (saw that when it dropped), then the 1-year later update, and now this one. I love this topic and honestly, I'm going through the exact same dilemma as you. Been shooting on xt3 then migrated to xh2 as more "Serious" camera but found I wasn't shooting as much. Now I'm picking up my interest again and shooting some semi-professional work like a wedding for a friend, as I feel as the XH2 is just not keeping up with that, and it also doesn't quite fit the "passion" bucket my XT3 did. It's sort of this weird spot where it's not hitting either goal. I'm now debating going into full frame like you did with the A7IV or Nikon z6iii and leaning more into the "pro" camera, but then part of me is looking at the Lumix S5ii with all those fun features like the live composite mode for light painting or built-in advanced timelapse to really spark more creative content but giving up the "pro" features like AF for example. It's a constant back and forth as I consider budget and future photography and video goals. Anyway, I love this topic and thought you did a great job summarizing it. Look forward to more content like this!

[@alistair_ie]

another great video 🤩. I also went from fuji XT5 to a Sony a7rv to get better results - this camera is a beast. but it's no fun, I hate Lightroom so I miss my fuji jpegs. so in jan I went and got a Leica M10 😝- I love it, it excites me to use and I love the images that come out of it, even DNG files - but its tricky having no auto focus, I miss many shots on critical focus ( I use the 50mm summicron which a beautiful lens is harder to critical focus) thinking to change to a 35mm or even 28mm to have it more as a daily carry because at the moment I often leave it home because I don't want to carry both cameras and 9 times out of 10 I want/need to get focus - no such thing as the perfect 'one'. The Leica is expensive and too nice to sit on my desk - so I am also considering selling the M10 to get some G Master glass (I have just the Sony 24-50mm f2.8 & 70-200 f4 II- I miss primes! ) in fact I have the M10 listed but secretly hope no one buys it 🤭

[@drchtct]

I think the experience is a big part of it. I shoot Fuji and thought about fullframe Sony or Nikon a lot. The new compact, affordable f1.4 lenses from Nikon are tempting. But the most fun I have is not about image quality but about playing around with the dials and clicky aperture rings. I would miss that a lot on a Sony or Nikon, it all feels a bit too clinical and lifeless compared to the Fuji system. The image quality is fantastic anyway, I regularly get compliments from friends even when shooting at f2 or f2.8, nobody ever said "oh but that image isn't shot at f1.4 on a fullframe body", nobody cares in the real world. Recently bought a Voigtländer lens and the challenge to get the AF right is like a minigame for every shot, tons of fun. I'd say I haven't even used 30% of what my camera can, e.g. I wanted proper 4k60 without the 1.5x crop many fullframe cameras have and have barely ever used it yet, there's just so much to explore both in photo and video. And I put Classic Chrome and Nostalgic Negative on almost all of my images, I wouldn't want to give that up for... yeah for what really, I don't even know, GAS probably, nothing else

[@wilmergreen9480]

I have a Sony A7R5 and a collection of lenses which I use for events and video when things are happening quickly and I need to nail every shot, however for personal stuff I always grab my M10R with a 28 and 50 summicron, it’s more challenging and satisfying plus a much lighter carry.

[@chicojuanito2]

That's why its hard to buy a new camera these days. Everything is so hi-tech, there's not a lot of difference in cameras. I'm sick of this A7IV cus I don't like the color science but what would I switch to?

[@michaelf7742]

Would go for the Leica. If you don‘t need the MPs of the Sony R V there is not much improvement in my view

[@earlfenwick]

Exactly. I was shooting an office event recently and was cursing my xe4 and its herkyjerky focus with the 27mm. I was wishing I had kept the A6600! Just wanted to nail the shots on the first try.😊

[@jurrevandermeer4857]

Interesting to hear you feel less passionate about the x100vi! I had the same (used to own a x100f). Ended up selling the Fuji after two months, holding on to my Q3 instead 😊

[@Cthames123]

Just grab something and shoot with it! It’s not supposed to be particle physics.😆 Perhaps the debate and consternation comes in because we have way too many options to pick from, (ice cream analogy: 31 flavors vs chocolate or vanilla). If we pair down to 1, maybe it would free the brain up? (I’m just saying)

[@lopsii902]

i get the "fun camera " part but when you miss the autofocus more often than not and the fun part goes to "frustration part" really fast. .. Work or not, it is import for me...for example i like xt5 from videos i have seen but i wouldn't trade it for my a7iv. Plus it is not like i don't enjoy shooting with my sony...

[@Cthames123]

I 100% agree. The cameras I end up keeping, (and have lots of “fun” with), have the best “do what I think it should” rates! Things like nailing the focus, not overheating, etc. are the least of anyones expectations.

[@Holl.Mvrk.]

My opinion is skip the M 11 if you haven’t tried out an M body. The M11 is total overkill and they have still have issues with the older models that you find on the market used… my personal suggestion is go with the M10R. It has everything you need and you still get a 40mp sensor. If you really want the M experience the M10R is the best option out there that’s a happy medium and mix of cost, resolution and modern tech

[@Cthames123]

14:07 I’m seeing the Leica M11 is $9,000! Your A7IV was $2,500, (without your GM lenes). The Leica Q2 $6,000. The Fuji Film x100V $1500 (if you got it at retail). Maybe the pot is calling the kettle black here, but aren’t you spending a lot of money on this? Whats so wrong with the very excellent, (and already rather expensive!) cameras you already have? Why not go with a “cheap” fun camera that’s hard to use to give you the challenge you are looking for?

[@Cthames123]

@Tobis Ting There’s nothing wrong with renting a camera and trying it out for a while before buying.

[@TobisTings]

I may be able to borrow a M10 for a few days from a friend to give it a go. But imo it takes a lot longer to really get a feel for a camera. As for the M11: I wouldn't buy one new. You can get one on MPB used for around 6.500€ (still a lot). But as I said in the end I might just go for a used M10 instead. Still a ton of money and I would probably have to let something else go to "make room" for it.

[@erik6678]

Im "all in" Fujifilm. When i really need to "get the foto" i take my x-h2s (although fuji really needs to improve the AF)...for daily use i choose between the x100v or the x-t2. (Love the build quality of the x-t2!) For me the "fun"-aspect has more weight than the latest and greatest specs. When you don't enjoy to use your camera you won't take it with you.

[@dccoletrain]

I’d say you also owning Leica probably taking away from the X100VI… both great cameras but maybe both not necessary to own.

[@TobisTings]

Certainly true. I was on the verge of selling my X100 VI a few times but its a really hard to let it go.

[@dccoletrain]

@@TobisTings I plan on always having a compact Fujifilm. I’m certainly considering a full frame camera on the next cycle (A7V or R6iii?). I’d take a Leica M6 film camera…

[@AmbercoolPhotography]

Serious camera: A7R5 Fun camera: M11, Pen F, Zf, 500 C/M, any Polaroid Overlap camera: EM1.2

[@frankygamaliano7058]

I am on the same process of finding my 'fun' and 'serious' camera. Have X100V and Q3 for my 'fun' cameras. Hoping to eventually swap X100V for the next XPro. Have considered an M10/11 after I tried the visoflex but will hold off until it gets an EVF (yes, yes, what a horror thought!!). Just added the A7CR for more serious camera and true enough, it can do almost anything but it kinda 'soul-less'. It's nowhere near the feel/joy I get when I hold Q3. But if I am being honest, I have more than enough cameras and rather have a nice trip to new places for a good while.

[@markushibbeler1]

Ich schaue mal in die Glaskugel und sage voraus, dass du dir spätestens in zwei Jahren mit einer Leica M fotografieren wirst. Ich habe mir vor zwei Jahren die M10 bei Foto Görlitz (sehr zu empfehlen) gekauft und es nicht bereut. Für Natur und Sport nutze ich zusätzlich noch Canon und Fuji. Ich würde an deiner Stelle die M10 kaufen. Dazu noch ein 35er oder 50er Summicron oder das Voigtländer 35mm 1.7 Ultron. Die Kombis machen superviel Spaß und die Ergebnisse stehen über allem.

[@TobisTings]

M10 ist aktuell tatsächlich realistischer als die M11. Und ich werde auch auf jeden Fall mit Voigtländer Objektiven einsteigen. Selbst eine M10 ist gebraucht echt noch teuer genug...

[@markushibbeler1]

@@TobisTings Das Voigtländer 35mm 1.7 Ultron ist top. Es war mein erstes M-Objektiv und kostete 600 Euro. Ich würde mir jederzeit wieder eine M10 holen. Viel Erfolg. Ich bin gespannt auf deine weiteren Berichte und Entscheidungen!

[@peetje28021970]

Most digital cameras are soulless, for me my sl2s bodies are my everyday use cameras, my fun cameras and my friends I travel the world with. You have been talking about the M cameras for a while now Tobias and it will always be in your thoughts no matter what gear you will buy, get an M body and be happy.

[@TobisTings]

I guess you are just watching me very slowly preparing myself for the inevitable impact of the financial nuke that is a Leica M.

[@marcinkosowski4807]

Why not combine both in one? Meaning, did you try Nikon Zf? :D

[@DirkMenker]

Good point, i do get both from it.

[@andrewlarking7492]

Why can’t they be the same? When I look at all the best photography (my take on the best anyway) all the images were shot on small, manual, old, low resolution gear. What’s in front of the lens matter more than any gear. I think many hobby photographers don’t want to hear this as it means getting away from your comfort zone. Edit: for me, and of course this is just my own view, a fun camera is also one that makes files that need minimal post work, alongside being focussed on photography and not packed with gimmicks. What I’ve learned with many years of experimenting is the most fun experience for me is shooting 120 film as post scan, the shots are done.

[@The_Essential_Light]

Sony A7RV is my serious camera. Fuji X100V is my fun camera.

[@TobisTings]

solid setup!

[@donjagoe]

M11 and a world of lenses…

[@HawonJung]

Yes, we all are addicts.

[@TobisTings]

GAS is real...

[@WilsonGomez]

98% of the "fun" camera don't fit in your pocket, only the GR3 the rest you will need to carry it, so for a few centimeter I rather have a pro camera. Just don't buy a "Pro" lens like a G Master because they are big and heavy and then you will complain buy the Sony f2.5 G line which are small