DoAll Bandsaw gearbox repair - Part 3 || RotarySMP

[@NicoCarsAndCookies]

Cool! Last Episode of the trilogy… hold a sec… that is not the end. Is that one if these modern deep-reflexion films where you have to figure the end of the story yourself? Or a matter of Georges LUCAS Star Wars “Trilogy”… looking forward to see episode 1-2-3. or 7-8-9. Or whatever is needed so that the dark side of the KNIPEX force used sideways on hexagonal nuts is defeated… you shall be Darth Vater of the tools… too often seduce by the facility of the KNIPEX pliers. The lightsaber of your choice.

[@RotarySMP]

A trilogy in four parts :)

[@Oberkaptain]

@@RotarySMP so every hollywood movie that they want to milk more money out of?

[@johnwhitley5141]

HHGTTG, A Trilogy in 5 parts ?

[@RotarySMP]

@@johnwhitley5141 Hi John, You know Douglas Adams was considering a sixth part for the trilogy, when death got in the way.

[@samrodian919]

@@RotarySMPor maybe even more if disaster strikes again lol

[@stevensmart8868]

Nice work on the cylindrical grinding. SKF and other bearing companies sell hardened bushes that are made for needle roller bearings. You might be able to turn down the shaft and use the hardened sleeve to get back to size. Just a thought

[@danceswithaardvarks3284]

I was just about to make that comment too.

[@loug5647]

I agree with some of the other comments sleeves should work. Also If you can find someone with the equipment the bearing surface can be ground undersized and spray welded oversized and turned back to size. I've also chrome plated some but then you'll have to grind the surface back to size. On shafts like that I would induction harden the gear teeth only less chance of warping. All in all, great work.

[@RotarySMP]

@@loug5647 The pulley shaft is only 3/4", so I would not be able to turn back the bearing journals to fit 20mm OD sleeves.

[@Oberkaptain]

Great episode of this old band saw channel!

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for your feedback.

[@WillemvanLonden]

Part four of this trilogy. I like that one.

[@RotarySMP]

Hi Willem, at least :)

[@Paul-FrancisB]

Good morning from Lincolnshire UK 🇬🇧

[@RotarySMP]

Good afternoon from Vienna.

[@RickRolling-tc7vb]

You're a resourceful chap, and you have lots of cool toys and some good ideas. Good job with the Clarkson, that was interesting. Shame about screwing up the dimensions, but the second version will be a piece of cake now you've done one, so don't sweat it. We're all learning here, even Nico.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for the encouragement Rick.

[@endemiller5463]

More episodes than starwars!!! Love it. God Bless.

[@RotarySMP]

Working on it :)

[@capivaraofwar]

This quenches my thirst for ToT-like content. I'm already a machinist but if only i could have access to more tools...

[@RotarySMP]

Never enough tools :)

[@jakobmn]

Looking forward to the last two parts of this five part trilogy.

[@RotarySMP]

Right on :)

[@craigbossard399]

If you have never tried hard turning, it’s an interesting process. Fundamentally the same as regular turning but the tools either last forever or instantly break in my experience.

[@RotarySMP]

I ordered a couple of CBN inserts to give it a go.

[@craigbossard399]

@@RotarySMP I hard turn slitter blades for packaging machinery. I would recommend sumitomo products as my best experience. Good luck!

[@ShainAndrews]

It's just like regular turning.... except harder.

[@Rustinox]

Maybe no real progress, but very interesting experimenting. There is always something to learn from it.

[@RotarySMP]

Hi Michel, thanks. The Clarkson is a pretty fun tool to play around with. Very flexible.

[@erok268]

EDIT* see last reply Doggy! you gotta leave like .010 -.015 on your bearing fits before heat treat, after heat treat grind those bearing fits, thats why you cylindrical grind mostly, not for the precision, but due to the difficulty of turning a hardened part. i know you know this most likely i just have the uncontrollable urge to state that. like you can finish all the fits to the size or projected size in regards to heat treat, except your bearing fits due to the nature of gear cutting and the geometry of gear teeth they dont typically warp to much during heat treat, and the ends of the shaft are in line due to the centers but the shaft overall will, so if you leave an ample amount on your bearing fits youre golden. be sure to dial in your part in regards to the wheel youre grinding with not the centers your part is held in. dial in at both ends, run youre indicator down the shaft turning it to see where the bow is. determine how much meat you got and the amount needed to correct that. if you have less meat than what you need dial in the shaft first on the gearteeth instead, on each tooth on both ends, then grind your bearing fits for a speedi sleeve if there is no time/ any other option.. at work we leave around .010-.015. its typically 4140, 4142, 4130 for context. also some other oddballs. were a repair shop that mostly serves the steel and paper industries with complete gearbox failures mostly as well as many other random machine repairs or new fabrication here in the Pacific North West. mostly really big onsies and twosies

[@erok268]

i forgot to mention dialing in your table and your part in regards to the grinding wheel itself as well obviously after a dressing. i use around 3 indicators while grinding.

[@erok268]

AGAIN MEASURE RUNOUT IN REGARDS TO BOTH ENDS OF PART AND TABLE TO THE GRINDING WHEEL CUTTING FACE. adjust table to be true to wheel. lol its very not intuitive so im stressing that

[@erok268]

I cannot stress enough how the table needs to be adjusted to where the ends of the shaft are dialed in to the grinding face. i .e put indicator on your grinding wheel mount to align the table and part to the wheel. you cannot accuratly grind without it being indicated with the wheel as the refrence

[@erok268]

LOL one last time indicate by sticking that stand on the nut of your grinding wheel for indicating

[@RotarySMP]

I appreciate your inputs here. I definitely dressed my grinding wheel conical, as I didn't set up the table perpendicular to it.

[@Andrew_Fernie]

Loved the shot at 10:33

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks Andrew, I liked that one as well. Kind of looks like a waterfall of sparks.

[@RasmusHuusom]

Get some flared cup grinding wheels for when you are doing cylindrical grinding on that machine, because you don't want to have too much contact surface and you can cut a relief on the end of the wheel so it can make a 90° corner. Another thing is when you machine between dead centers you need to make sure that your center holes are completely round or else the surfaces will be triangular.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for the tips. I was wondering whether a cup wheel would be better.. Didn't think through the corners on this one.

[@bostedtap8399]

Tall order on heat treating helical gear shaft without any distortion, it could be reclaimed with some careful heat bending, and machining/build up, but having a spare means its surplus. Nice set up on measuring TIR comparing different references. Clarkson grinder making itself useful. Thanks for sharing.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for your kind feedback.

[@traitorouskin7492]

Destruction thru improvement I love it.

[@RotarySMP]

German has some cool words.

[@SandBoxJohn]

Have you looked into spray welding the bearing journals and turning them down to be concentric with the gear between them?

[@RotarySMP]

I know of no one here could do that, but if I get bored, I might try TIG weld build up myself, and machine it back, just to try that process.

[@624Dudley]

It’s a lot of effort, but a DoAll is worth it. 👍

[@RotarySMP]

It really is! Have you made any progress on inspecting yours Doric?

[@624Dudley]

@@RotarySMP Some, yes. Mostly the mystery of the machine has grown - it’s configured differently compared to more common versions, I think. I’ll send a PM later.

[@joell439]

Thanks for sharing this original trilogy which yielded valuable lessons. Maybe a Sequel Trilogy is in order as opposed to just part 4 😉? Either way, I’m looking forward to the next adventure. 👍😎👍

[@RotarySMP]

There is no guarantee that Part 4 will be the end of this trilogy. Supposedly Douglas Adams had a sixth part of his five part trilogy planned, when death got in the way.

[@MiniLuv-1984]

I've maximised the entropy of my workshop over the last 6 years. Every thing has a place, you just don't know which place you will find the doo hickey you need. Now, where is that nail gun...

[@RotarySMP]

I like that Ben. :)

[@mrspeaky6885]

Just as some others suggested. Try pressing hardened bushings on there if the budget allows it.

[@RotarySMP]

Not sure if I can find any with an ID which would fit over the rest of the shaft. 20mm bearing journals, and 3/4" shaft.

[@GeorgeGeorgalis]

@@RotarySMP maybe a split bushing could be fitted to save the shaft?

[@methlonstorm2027]

nice vid entertaining as always hope you get the parts treated how you want them (and at a good price) look forward to part um 4 of 3 ? :)

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks, I hope Part 4 is also more progress :)

[@LitchKB]

A few points of interest: * If you're like me and tend to fall on new toys to finish projects with anything but a light breeze.... A 15kW induction unit is about $1200AUD. Does need a pretty good power circuit (40A breaker on a 240v mains circuit - or a dedicated genset of sufficient kVA rating). But if you're going to do any further shafts/parts like this where it's mostly already "to spec" - the case hardening these can perform has obvious benefits over what you've attempted. Obviously requires a case-hardenable base material (4140/High carbon/EN36A/etc..) * "Heat straightening" - via an oxy and a quench bucket could be useful here (YT: Keith Fenner). Which makes the obvious next attempt: Just making things slightly oversize, doing the hardening process, heat straightening any bow out, then grinding to final size. The benefit here is you can still use cheap, low-carbon steels and just carburize it to a decent depth.

[@RotarySMP]

I dont have either the electrical feed or the work to justify that investment. The replacement gears will go out for plasma nitriding.

[@nutsandbolts432]

I’ve often wondered about grinding wheels vs surface finish. My understanding is, the lower the grit, the less heat you put in the part, but the worse the surface finish. Conversely opposite with a higher grit. Would coolant make a difference if your desired outcome is to be highly polished/ mirror finish?

[@RotarySMP]

I think it is a more multi dimensional, with grain size, grain hardness, binder hardness, coolant, feeds and speeds and machine rigidity all significant factors in the final result.

[@philhermetic]

You could get the undersize shaft metalsprayed to 0versize then grind it back to size! Phil

[@RotarySMP]

I might try a TIG weld build up and turn it back, just to give that method a try.

[@philhermetic]

@@RotarySMP yup, that will work but you might have to heat treat again. No matter, you will be well oversize by then, but have a think about the shaft bending through uneven heating. Mig build up whilst rotating it in a weld positioner?

[@alexkart9239]

You can build up sections of the part by welding, harden them again, and then grind them back to the correct size.

[@RotarySMP]

If I get bored, I might do that just to learn the process.

[@erok268]

well dont undo your hardened gear, you could just go on a chemistry adventure, and chrome plate the bearing fits then grind.

[@RotarySMP]

@@erok268 I seriously doubt that chrome plating kits are available in the EU, due to toxic waster issues.

[@ferrumignis]

Could you salvage the heat treated shaft by grinding the bearing surfaces down far enough so you could sleeve them?

[@RotarySMP]

Not really, as the pully that goes on the shaft is 3/4", and the bearings 20mm. I might try weld build up, just to try it out.

[@crozwayne]

Hi, the drill grinder is a Brierley, once made here in sunny Wales, I've got one, brilliant bit of kit

[@LCalleja]

Hi they are truly nice machines. You don’t happen to have any useful accessories that go with the machine do you? Or a number 10 cam?

[@LCalleja]

Grate video as always. Nice to see the clarkson in use looks like it did a good job, by the way the drill grinder is a Brierley ZB25 :)

[@RotarySMP]

Hi Luke, I only saw the D-Tek marking on it. I should have asked you first.

[@willslow7291]

if you want a manual for a brierly drill grinder I'm getting some copies reproduced currently!

[@willslow7291]

the cams are only changed for when you grind a tap or a left hand drill, all standard rh drills would use the same cam.

[@LCalleja]

@@willslow7291 that would be grate as I only have half a one:)

[@LCalleja]

@@willslow7291 from what I have found out so far is that you need a 2 cam for right hand drills which I didn't have so I made one. Also some of the cams I have are for some odd grinds but would like to get one for 3 flute tools and would also like to get an attachment which allows point splitting. Do you have a similar machine?

[@graealex]

Thanks Mark!

[@RotarySMP]

Thank you Alex.

[@robertwatsonbath]

A trilogy in four parts. Shame about the parts, but you've at least worked out what not to do which is always a step in the right direction.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks Robert. Just have to make another one without screwing it up.

[@v3ctors69]

Always a pleasure. Thanks for sharing as always! How feasible would spray welding the part be? Abom79 has repaired similar shafts with the process.

[@RotarySMP]

Not sure whether I can find someone with the process around here. I am tempted to do a weld build up and turn back on the scrap shaft.

[@v3ctors69]

@@RotarySMPSounds like a good plan to me. Very little risk vs high reward. That'd also be fun to watch. Speaking of which, love your channel. Thanks for sharing all of this with us. Don't feel too pressured content wise, sometimes stuff just takes longer than we expect and that's okay. The real ones aren't going anywhere.

[@RotarySMP]

@@v3ctors69 Thank you for the kind feedback.

[@davidbrown8365]

Wrap a bit of black electrical tape (using lathe of course) around the shaft to take up the slack to those SKF's ;-)

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks David, you are obviously also an aircraft tech :)

[@slypig24]

Just thinking, could you try home Nickel Electroplating, (2 or 3 processes) to build up bearing journal (keep gear out of bath, hanging vertical) then regrind to size? it would make interesting content until proper nitrite coating. According to google, up to 0.010" thickness in multiply steps, is possible.

[@RotarySMP]

I think if I get bored I will try doing a weld build up repair.

[@GrumpiesGarage]

The drill grinder is a copy of a Brierley zb32...the cams for that are available from Chester tools in the UK but they are about £100 each....I have the later model the zb32/2 which uses 2 different size cams..

[@RotarySMP]

I got that wrong. D-Etk was the importer. It is an orginal Brierley. Thanks for pointing out that Chester has the cams.

[@RB-yq7qv]

I might have turned the shaft down sleeve and pin it for a spare part. Anyway lets hope all goes well this week.

[@RotarySMP]

I am thinking of TIG weld build up and machine it back.

[@GeoffTV2]

Thanks for the enjoyable video. Sorry to see your first shaft is ruined. The Clarkson made a fair job of that cylindrical grinding so that's handy eh?

[@RotarySMP]

That is the way I see it as well. I would need to be very careful with the Clarson gibs to nail a specific diameter, but it could do in a pinch.

[@GeoffTV2]

@@RotarySMP Looks like sorting the Clarkson wear could be another project to add to the endless list.

[@RotarySMP]

@@GeoffTV2 It has been a nagging thought for me. Scrape in the ways, add some bellows to keep grinding grit off them ... modify the infeed so it turns the right way, and add a depth scale to it... Endless :)

[@harlech2]

I *TOLD* YOU THERE WOULD BE AND EPISODE 4!

[@RotarySMP]

Dead right there :)

[@throblet]

verschlimmbessern - one of those wonderful German words I should use more often. Much more expressive than my usual “whoops” 🙄🤬

[@RotarySMP]

Yeah, German has some excellent terms like that.

[@wizrom3046]

After the original trilogy you have to come back with "Episode 1" and of course rename the original trilogy as 4, 5 and 6. And don't forget the lightsabres. Everyone loves the lightsabres.

[@RotarySMP]

I was think more in terms of galactic hitch hiking, but renaming 1 to 4 is a great idea. :)

[@dublegi-hr8kq]

Given that the shaft(s) are scarp anyway, why not try to load them with weld and re-cut the journals? Maybe the one with the gear on it can be grabbed by the gear in a large collet or maybe with a split ring in the four jaw chuck?

[@RotarySMP]

I have been thinking of doing that as well. It is 4340, so I'd need a preheat before welding.

[@timogross8191]

I am skeptical. Will welding bend an stress it even worse? Often after trying to "rescue a part" it has to be done over once again at the end. It is a difficult decision every time and no matter what we do it was wrong 🙂

[@RotarySMP]

@@timogross8191 Since this is scrap and I have a replacement, my interest is doing a weld build up is purely to try that technique and maybe unlock a new skill.

[@dublegi-hr8kq]

@@RotarySMP And who knows?! Maybe you wrong it right! Never discount the probability of getting it right, no matter how small.

[@RotarySMP]

@@dublegi-hr8kq A german saying is "hope dies last...but it dies :)

[@camillosteuss]

Ah, yes, the good old maximal entropy... Funny how all my projects dont have that as a peak form of chaos, but are more or less in a constant state of maximal entropy from the moment i touch the thing, to the few moments before the whole system gets reassembled... Tho, i love the use of the tool&cutter grinder in this way... I was considering using my deckel s1 at one point as a surface grinder, but then i realized that i have to contend with the wear in the ways before i even really plan on using the s1 for anything(a point we yet have to get to...)... Its why i have gotten the surface grinder for... Which turns out, also needs repairs... The t&c grinders really are the swiss army knife of any machine shop... From tool and cutter grinding, to cylindrical and surface grinding, to even internal grinding... Just an amazingly adaptable machine all over... The lathe is the queen of all machines, but the tool and cutter grinder is the younger tomboy princess with equal aspirations... I should go and get some medical aid, but there is no cure for boat anchor syndrome... I tried everything from nettles tea, to electro shock therapy, to beatings, baths in scalding hot water and leeches... Its just wont go away... I yet have to try ayahuasca, but given that im tripping balls sober, i dont see how that might consolidate my madness and help expel it... Even the local exorcist was baffled... On the other hand, the madness is a good source of channel content, so i cant really complain all that much... I posted a quickie a few days ago regarding the newest pet, but i have yet to finish editing the next vid regarding the lathe systems and plans for the future... Hopefully, i wont come across another machine for a while, as i really need another shop to contend with more machines... My shop is maxed out and beyond its capacity... I must not even sense a single opportunity for machine grabbing, as i know i wont be able to help it... Until i set up another shop on my property, for restorations and storage, i will have to remain at home... After that, i will be able to sell off the restored machines i will be buying, but until then, i am better off not even looking through my windows... I have like 11 machines to either touch up or do a full restoration on, so i abso-fucking-lutely dont need a single thought of another machine... That dude may have 99 problems, but his problems aint shit, mine weigh enough to sink the titanic... All the best and kindest regards! Steuss p.s. the jdm dude can rightfully go stuff his rear bearing bore with a cactus... The reason for custom making was explained by the price of the oem replacement... And if you think that theses machines are at all incapable of producing replicant parts, you have obviously 0 machining knowledge... Sure, industry does things in other ways, but its modern industry with modern corporate methods of decision making and procedure dictating... That shafting was made back when smoking on the planes was allowed and aspirin contained barbiturates, and it was made likely in a very similar manner to what SMP tried to do here... Its just that those parts were made by thousands, and they were made with a doctored and developed methods, as they were all made in the same way, out of the same material, by the same machines, using identical processes and resulting in near identical deviations that were as predictable as idiots claiming that parts should be bought and not made... How do you think those parts were made like that, originally, back in the good old days when that saw was made? It wasnt plasma nitriding nor vacuum hardening... It was stuff made oversize, heat treated and ground into tolerance, each part inspected and fitted... I guess you also say that lightbulbs should not be changed and that it should be left to an electrician to do it for you... Do you even sharpen your kitchen knives my dude? Do you even lift buddy? Do you even wipe your own ass what with that attitude? You know you can hire a professional to do it for you? Go get some grease on your hands and grit on your knees, you soft, lazy slug... If everyone was like you, the first plane would never have been made in the damn shed, nor most of the inventions that turn the wheels of moder n world, which were also made in the shed, by a dude with some from the times methods and equipment... Tesla and Edison would not have been tinkering with the devils work and you would still plow the fields by hands and oxen... And Fritz Haber would not have allowed for near limitless amounts of food to be made and had opened up the floodgates to dozens of fields of specialized processes... Also, yes modern mfgs arent vertical to put it so, but in the olden days, schaublin and many such high grade companies both cast their own shit, machined it, made their own machines to machine stuff with, made their own tooling and everything else, and they did the metrology and alloy analysis... Sure, some of it would be outsourced, but brands that stood behind their products, back in the day, stood behind the whole process, from initial melting to final assembly and painting, to all the parts in between... You pillock...

[@RotarySMP]

I think your are being a little harsh with JPM. I didn't take his comment as negative. Dude, that video you posted is such a tease. Now we need a second one with voice over telling us about it. please!

[@camillosteuss]

@@RotarySMP Hahaha, yeah, i got riled up like a giddy girl when i saw that nonsense... Not making parts... Dear Lord... Whats worse, i thought i didnt post that comment... I thought i merely wrote it down without publishing it... I didnt want to post such a mitrailleuse of a comment on your channel... I dont want to act as the bouncer without it being called for... I guess i dozed off on my keyboard and posted it unwittingly... My bad... As said, i will post another vid... I wanted to post what i have, but i really want to make a re-shoot of some parts, as my voice went down the drain after drinking some coffee part-way... I fluctuate between the heavy smoker`s gravely voice and primary school first grader who just got his first A+... The weather is complete dogshit the last few days, so i am doing nothing to the twin ways, as its just impractical to even consider setting stuff up and unwrapping her... And i am repainting the whole interior of my house and have quite some gardening tasks to contend with - the greenhouse is a bloody mess, so yeah... I`ll take a re-shoot of some parts and edit a spoken video... As said, i already have it done, but first half is jumpy, as i had to cut out smoker`s cough every like 15 seconds, and the other half is baby voice after a coffee with milk, which makes for a really silly format, especially unintentionally... Tho, i have to say, i envy you the bandsaw... My only saw is a handsaw, which makes for most unpleasant work of any kind... So much so that i go around and bring beer to machine shops in exchange for access to their bandsaws... I dont really prefer the angle grinder, lest we are talking welding, and even then, i avoid it as a cutting method if can... Just way too imprecise.... All the best and kindest regards!

[@MatthewTinker-au-pont-blanc]

I have a few Whitworth machines including the same MKI Clarkson as you, I sill have Whitworth spanners from when I trained over fifty years ago! Ironically, metric spanners work better on Whit than Unified! Just sayin', I'm phobic about adjustable "wrenches" except for blacksmithing! Cheers, Matthew

[@RotarySMP]

Over time this machine has picked up various Metric T-bolts etc. Drives me nuts. I know it is lazy to use the Knippex parallel jaw pliers, but none of these fasteners need to be cranked.

[@somebodyelse6673]

Once I encountered the term, I immediately agreed that 'thumb seeking nut rounder' was more appropriate than 'adjustable wrench'. Now, I only use them for bending tabs on sheet metal.

[@RotarySMP]

@@somebodyelse6673 I admire your self discipline.

[@MakarovFox]

cool, is nice to use tool for thing that were not created but without ruining it

[@RotarySMP]

True. The Clarkson is a very flexible tool.

[@MakarovFox]

@@RotarySMP indeed

[@jimsvideos7201]

Parts shrinking as a result of heat treatment is new to me, but good to know.

[@RotarySMP]

I am guessing it was the metal lost to oxidation, and then the HCl I used to remove that scale.

[@Kyran31]

Morning mark, have you decided on a company for your nitriding?

[@RotarySMP]

Not yet. I wrote to 5 or six different ones, and am awaiting feedback on cost, turn around time, and for a couple near Vienna, whether I could come and film :)

[@Kyran31]

I’m pretty sure where we use is costed per kg. Hope you get one who will let you film, that would be great to see bts

[@henrychan720]

show us more airplanes

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks Henry. Will do.

[@NicoCarsAndCookies]

What Henry means: go back to work. Henry is watching you. Henry knows it all.

[@Andrew_Fernie]

Really enjoy the aircraft stories interludes. I also vote for more !@@RotarySMP

[@RotarySMP]

@@Andrew_Fernie Thanks Andrew, Some weeks no stories pop into my head. Can't force these things :)

[@eXpanderxl]

Can you make a sleeve for it? Or a bushing of sort?

[@RotarySMP]

The size of the pulley shaft would not allow it.

[@markp5726]

Since you're grinding in one direction, that edge of the wheel wears more. As part of the surface is only touched by the worn side of the wheel, it will have a larger diameter. One solution is to dress the wheel again before the final pass. Of course that doesn't matter if the part is scrap...

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for the tip Mark. Cheers, Mark

[@noodles7011]

This my favorite channel. i like you

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for your vote of confidence :)

[@zxspectum]

Any reason for having the diamond dresser kicked at an angle to the wheel instead of just at 90 degrees?

[@RotarySMP]

The diamond tip does wear/chip a little, so you dont want to wear it flat. Each use it gets rotated a bit to keep a point.

[@zxspectum]

@RotarySMP ah good tip. Get it did you see what I did there? I'm here all week. I'll get me coat.......

[@B0BBYL33J0RD4N]

The parts dont have to be scrap, you could straighten them, undersize the journals, then get bearing to fit them. The 2 proper ways to properly treat them would be the one you mentioned, or to have had him make it oversized and then to clean up the relevant diameters after treatment.

[@RotarySMP]

I am tempted to try out weld build up and turning back, as I have never done that before.

[@samrodian919]

@@RotarySMPif you haven't then go watch Kurtis at Cutting Edge Engineering Australia he does massive weld ups of wallered out bearing bushes and the like on bulldozer parts and hydraulic cylinders for the mining industry. Then he line bores them back to standard spec. I'm pretty sure you could weld up your bearing journals to get them back to spec without a great deal of trouble. It's worth a try, after all the parts are scrap anyway if it does not work. And it's another string to your bow if it does!

[@alanrichardson1672]

​@@RotarySMPIf it "had" to run then I would have either metal sprayed or built up those journals with conventional weld then resized to suit. It would be running now!

[@adamdiaz8442]

Clarkson toolgrinders made here in the town I’m from my grandad used to be a shopfloor supervisor back in the day

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks Adam, They are great tools. Very flexible.

[@SergeiPetrov]

You can chemically apply a layer of copper or iron. And then sand it. You can cast a babit bushing. In my opinion, during heat treatment, the workpiece is immediately released, depriving it of any hardening. Most likely, several cycles of quenching and complete tempering should make the workpiece without internal stresses.

[@RotarySMP]

I might try weld build up on that scrap shaft, just because it interests me to try that.

[@RobB_VK6ES]

Hard turn down the journal areas and shrink on an oversize sleeve then turn to dia. I have done this hundreds of times in industry. The reality of the situation with such a small keyed shaft without normalising prior to final tuning and grinding the shaft will always bend excessively regardless of the HT process. You might also consider hardening just the gear teeth.

[@RotarySMP]

It is really the plain bearing journal which is in most need of heat treatment. Do you think the replacement shaft will also distort with Plasma nitriding? I thought this was a cold enough process that you dont normally get warpage? There is not enough clearance over the pulley shaft end to fit the ID of a sleeve.

[@jansaljaj3042]

Maybe also try spinning the part in opposite direction in order to get higher surface speed.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for the tip Jan.

[@jameshisself9324]

Have to ask, why not just sleeve the undersized portion and grind it to spec? Or some similar solution that gives the interference fit to the roller bearing with a spacer? It would seem that since it is a surface for a roller and not a plain bearing that the relative precision requirement and potential for wear is low.

[@erok268]

a speedi sleeve would be better. grinding a sleeve will work as long as its a pretty deep interference fit like .005 to be safe. unless hes also got liquid nitrogen at his disposal getting a sleeve hot enough for that size in regards to the pinion itself might undue the heat treatment, and the sleeve will obviously not be heat treated due to the heat. so if you dont mind redoing the process and potentially having the same problem again you can do that. becuase its a band saw and its the pinion you could get away with a little radial endplay, but it will break prematurely f its not an interference fit on that bearing its going to be like little hammer blows every revolution.

[@jameshisself9324]

@@erok268 I agree, whatever mounting process that works and then just turn it down to meet the run out requirements then. Seems like it would be easy to even change the roller bearing spec to larger ID and make a spacer to fit. At least try it and check wear after a given time period, In practical applications (especially in a decades old bandsaw gearbox) The production tolerance is WAY bigger than the perfection we try to achieve. I doubt it will be a problem, but the only way to know for sure is to run it for a week/month/year and inspect it.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks guys. Unfortunately the shaft next to the 20mm bearing journal is 3/4", so I cant turn back the journals enough to mount a speedy sleeve. I might try a weld build up on the scrapped shaft, just to give it a go and see how that process works.

[@voltairegoethe]

Talk about cup runneth over.... a four-part trilogy!!!! transitory entropy expansion beautification and wellness

[@RotarySMP]

Glad you enjoyed it. Lets see if four parts suffices :)

[@ArcAiN6]

Look into spray welding to salvage parts with undersiz3ed bearing journals. It's a lifesaver

[@RotarySMP]

I know of no one here who offers that process. I might try a weld build up and turn back just to see what happens.

[@johncroasdale2748]

Why not try and grip shaft on the gear surface, then true up bearing surfaces. Then hard chrome undersized bearing surfaces that will allow you to grind them to spec. Or plasma spray the bearing surfaces.

[@RotarySMP]

I might try TIG weld up, and then grip in a sacrificial collet on the gear teeth to tue it back up, just to play around with that technique.

[@petersiegrist4153]

die Bohrerschleifmaschine ist eine Brierley ZB 25 (die ZB 32 ist baugleich abgesehen vom grösseren Futter) Ich habe verschiedene Manuals als PDF. Da steht auch drin welche cam wofür ist. Ich habe auch schon welche nachgefertigt. Ich schicke Mark eine Email

[@RotarySMP]

Danke Peter, Ich wird dich in Kontakt mit Luke bringen.

[@tobiasripper4124]

does the gear (the shaft one) have enough "meat" to part it off of the current shaft, bore it, and fit it over a new shaft? perhaps with a key or a pin? i dont like the idea of that shaft and gear being one piece. it makes it so much harder to... everything.

[@RotarySMP]

No it doesn't. The original is DP11 - 11T, so the root is only a few 1/10mm larger diameter than the 20mm bearing journal.

[@azenginerd9498]

Perhaps a three-piece shaft then? Add a stub arbor on one shaft half small enough to leave adequate meat on the gear bore and a matching bore on the other shaft half. Press, loctite, pin...? Hard to know the feasibility without specific dimensions. But that's the beauty of armchair engineering 😊

[@tobiasripper4124]

@@azenginerd9498 im afraid it might not be able to withstand the load. pitty, either aproach would make it all way more simple to maintain. hell, i might even go out of my way and change the gears ratio just to make it work lol. as you so adequately put... armchair engineering hahahaha.

[@tobiasripper4124]

@@RotarySMP well damn. sleeving sounds more and more appealing. not a big fan of that aproach tho. oh well, as my ex boss used to say "if it was easy you wouldnt be the one doing it"... his words NEVER matched his paychecks tho. hence the "ex" boss part hahaha.

[@julias-shed]

Just saw grinder is from Nuneaton which is my home town 😀

[@RotarySMP]

Hi Julia, Clarkson must have been a pretty big company there in the industrial heigh-days

[@julias-shed]

@@RotarySMP Hi having just done some research it was a really big factory at one point making cutters etc. I've always fancied one of their cutter grinders but the prices went crazy so ended up with one from Halifax, UK. 🤣

[@RotarySMP]

@@julias-shed Have you seen the factory photos on Lathes.co.uk? They had rows and rows of their own machines grinding cutters for market.

[@julias-shed]

@@RotarySMP I haven't I'll check it out. 😄

[@paulbyerlee2529]

When we send hydraulic pumps out for reconditioning they spray coating the shafts and regrind them. Don't know if this is a viable option for you.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks Paul, do you have a vender in Europe? Any idea what it roughly cost?

[@paulbyerlee2529]

@@RotarySMP sorry but no. I live in the land down under with all the worlds deadliest creatures 🦘🐍🇭🇲🪼☠️🕷️🦈

[@c6q3a24]

It's certainly work that is typically done in an industrial manner, but you're doing it for a recreational reason, not an industrial one. Efficiency is just one metric for success, and another one is enjoyment.

[@RotarySMP]

True, it is fun to try out a new process.

[@lukerickert5203]

They aren't cheap and you would have to import but at least Simply Bearings in the UK has repair sleeves in both inch and metric. There might be EU suppliers as well.

[@RotarySMP]

Hi Luke, I am considering doing weld build up, just to unlock a new skill.

[@lukerickert5203]

@@RotarySMP it will be interesting to see how that works, I would be a bit concerned with distortion. Perhaps you should build it up with silicon bronze or similar as that doesn't needs as much heat.

[@MF175mp]

I would probably get a bearing with a smaller hole then bore it bigger. Or sleeve if not possible other way

[@RotarySMP]

The problem in the Pulley shaft is 3/4" and then the bearing journal 20mm, so there no way to get a sleev on to the journal.

[@Citronitroify]

Try: Fixmaster Metal Rebuilding - Shaft Repair (a locktite product).

[@RotarySMP]

That sounds like a perfect name for snake oil :)

[@Citronitroify]

True, but the video looks convincing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZfYoa2bmMd2gqc&ab_channel=LOCTITE%C2%AENorthAmerica@@RotarySMP

[@geoffreyward4743]

what about a bronze bushing and lock tight

[@RotarySMP]

THhre is not enough diameter difference form the 20mm bearing journal, to the 3/4" pulley shaft for sleeving.

[@yelims20]

turn both areas down, then make and install sleeves, you get another shot at it

[@RotarySMP]

The pully shaft is 3/4", so there is too little diameter to get a sleeve on the 20mm journal.

[@markedevold1261]

👍

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks Mark.

[@vettepicking]

Nitrating doesn't add much to a surface. I would do hard chrome buildup then re grind

[@RotarySMP]

I will have the new set nitrided, which are at nominal dimensions. I might try weld build up and turn back on the scrapped one.

[@gubr]

A big vise also works fine as a small press 🤭.

[@RotarySMP]

True. I have a big vise project.

[@steveg4iwr]

Looks like some more paperweights ☹️

[@RotarySMP]

You got it Steve :)

[@emilgabor88]

Hi. Send them to me. I can plasma nitrite them . I’m from Romania

[@RotarySMP]

Hi Emil, Thanks for the offer. Please email me (link on the channels "About" page). Cheersm Mark

[@callmekimberly99]

In case you still look for a shop that'll harden your parts you may wanna reach out to Eifeler in germany Edit: all of our hardened parts are treated at Eifeler, as example preassure plates for injection molds and other hardened mold components

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks, they also have a facility here in Vienna. I wrote to them.

[@RotarySMP]

@johannesfiftyeight9287 As far as I can tell, they are now owner by Vöest Alpine.

[@dfgaJK]

Yeah, sure that's maximum entropy.... nothing to see here

[@RotarySMP]

Yeah, thanks for watching :)

[@NicoCarsAndCookies]

First.

[@RotarySMP]

Hi Nico. You are still #1 :)

[@NicoCarsAndCookies]

Famous words of my last girlfriend. And the one before.

[@Tedd755]

Isn't that the whole point of being a hobby machinist - to try what interests you and learn as much about machining as you can? The whole point of industry is to maximise revenue and minimise cost. Specialisation allows industry to optimise for both of those objectives.That's not a goal for hobbyists though. Sure, buy something rather than build if it's too demanding in tools, time, and skill. I won't subscribe to "doesn't belong in the home shop". Hobbyists can do what they damn well please.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for your vote of confidence in what I am doing here :)