Dock and Anchor Lines - Polyester or Nylon?

[@danahawthorne1633]

Cheers, thank you for the solid overview Tim. I’ll see if I can come up with a practical topic.

[@slateization]

Now that’s what I call practical sailing advice

[@JamuAlford]

Tim, thanks for sharing this very useful info. I was at a busy anchorage last weekend and I noticed that many boats didnt use a snubber at all (just their anchor chain into the windlass) or when they did have a snubber it was used incorrectly. Maybe a refresher on anchoring for everyone would be good in a future video?

[@bkay1067]

Thanks for the info , newbie here , a sunfish for a summer , got to go out on a 72' out to the Grand Banks and back for 12 days , got hooked when we hit the blue waters, even tho got bounced around a bit in a storm . Been shopping around for a motorsailer something on the smaller size like 26-30' for my first boat , so I appreciate your channel for being straight forward with the pro and con of sailing, again Thank You

[@colinritchie1510]

Thanks for that excellent video and the simple explanation of the different types of material. I have cruised for 60 years and more on the West coast of Scotland, right from before there were any marinas...I know...hard to believe...and have had numerous boats form 33 to 50 feet. We always anchored because there was no alternative except in a harbour where you could occasionally tie alongside for re-fuelling etc. We always had all chain, no rope-rode, and the waters are quite deep. OK, the bitter-end was rope! Anyway, even on out last sailboat, a 33' centre-cockpit Moody, we had 40 fathoms, ok...240'...of 3/8 galvanised calibrated chain which may be thought of as overkill, but we never dragged anchor (a 45lb CQR, nothing fancy). Obviously, racing was not something we did, so the extra weight was not a problem, indeed, in heavy seas, the weight forward really helped to punch through the waves, and all credit to Bill Dixon who designed the boat, that weight did not alter the waterline at all. If we were stuck in extreme weather in a port we just let out more chain, and sometimes added a "Chum" or "Angel" but really this was never really necessary unless swinging room was restricted. I don't think many folks carry/use a Chum or Angel but I do believe it would be a very worthwhile tool for those who anchor wholly or partly with a rope rode. For your readers who may not be familiar with a chum, it's simply a heavy lead block, or a series of lead "biscuits" which you attach around the rope or chain and lower down via a separate rope to weigh down your anchor line so causing the catenary to flatten out . Sadly, with the massive increase in the number of marinas here in Scotland, the art of anchoring is a lost art!

[@c.a.mcneil7599]

Tim so happy practical sailor is working out for you so far😊

[@donmoore481]

The first ever boat collision I ever had involved anchor rode. In a crowded anchorage I was slowly motoring my sailboat, crossing in front of an anchored sailboat about 50' in front of it. All of a sudden I realized my boat was somehow out of control and I was heading straight at the boat I was passing, being drawn somehow into it"s bow. We collided with a bang. I initially didn't know how it happened. The naked owner of the boat came out of the cabin angry, swearing, and yelling at me for causing the collision. Only then did I see the issue. He was using a floating polypropylene rope instead of a chain rode to his anchor in the shallow harbor. In the calm air his anchor rope floated straight up from his anchor and floated about 50' at or just below the surface of the water and could not be seen. My keel hit the rope, his anchor held, and my boat was drug by his floating rope into his bow. Nothing but my sailing skills was injured as I apologized to him attempting to quiet his anger as he continued to make a scene in the harbor. That was until the skipper of the boat anchored next to him told both of us that he contributed to the accident by using poly rope on his anchor. The neighbor skipper then told us that he had advised him earlier that day not to use polypropylene for an anchor rode because it would not sink and be a hazard. .

[@repaircollc]

Tim, thank you so much for all your videos! I have been watching and learning for a long time, never having set foot on a sailboat. We'll I bought my first boat yesterday, a parker dawson 26. I can't wait to apply the things you're showing me to this old girl. I've had power boats most of my life and wanted to slow down and learn a new skill so sailing should fit the bill. I am very nervous about heeling too much or being overpowered by a gust. It just seems from watching all the KZbin sailors that it can happen real quick. I never thought about line stretch affecting sail shape 🤔. I already love the challenge of learning all this stuff. Thanks again for all your advice ✌️

[@bobloblaw1720]

Part of the learning process is getting over powered and making mistakes. You will get scared. You will learn your and your boats limits. And you will become a better sailor. Some advice - start each sail with a single sail up. Your jib is more forgiving than the main (easy to furl to reduce sail area- if you have a roller furler. Easy to let out to depower if things get hairy. And less risk if you have an accidental gybe). You may want to only use your jib for the first few sails to learn how it work and how it and your boat reacts to different winds. Before you leave the dock, set your main with as many reefs as you have reefing points so when you raise it it raises with the least amount of sail. It is MUCH easier to shake out a reef if the winds are light than it is to reef when things get out of hand. Take it slow, ask everyone for their advice. Then do what makes sense for you. Check the weather , check the radar, check the marine warnings. Then check again. If you have any doubt do not go out. There is always tomorrow. Have fun and good luck.

[@repaircollc]

@bobloblaw1720 Thank you for that! That makes perfect sense about 1 sail first. I will definitely be heading any and all advise about this stuff.

[@dd214veteran]

I have had me boat for less than a year and I was just looking to replace some sheets and this video gives me good points to research. I appreciate it.

[@donlindell1994]

Thanks for the thoughtful approach and well delivered message. I always learn something from you and really appreciate all the hard work you do for the community.

[@DeanTrudeau]

Great information. You mentioned about sharing sailing stories. I really enjoy watching your videos as well as reading the articles in Practical Sailor. I am a long time sailor as well as cruiser. I have an interesting story that involves The Down East Circle Route,lobsters,Canadian Coast Guard,and a local hospital. Was quite the adventure that happily turned out ok and many lessons learned. Let me know if you are interested in chatting about it.

[@TheBeer4me]

Your videos keep getting better. Awesome!

[@brownnoise357]

Dock - Nylon as shock absorber as it stretches and Anchor all Chain and Swivel in high quality galvanised steel plus polyester Anchor Trip line with a float on the end- that Trip line has saved a few anchors tbh.👍

[@davethemmp]

Hmm I need to buy some new mid ship lines now, I moved to a new marina that’s a DIY repair friendly dock, but it’s stern tie only so I had to use a couple of sail lines that were long enough to reach back past the stern to tie up, now I realize why they don’t stretch, wrong material and braid, great video Tim thanks for the lesson. Davethemmp.

[@tylerturcotte9636]

We have an o'day 222. For day/night anchorage we find a fortress anchor with 16ft of oversized chain and nylon rope to be perfect for most situations. For a couple times a season and keeping it clean. I expect it to last a while. Being in crowded places 6:1 is usually all we can get.

[@TheTonny1310]

Sometimes I use Nylon, other times polyester. The most important thing is to know the difference and make your choice based on that. For my fixed moorings I use polyester and with a rubber damper. For my guest moorings I use nylon. I have marked my rope, so I know the manufacturer and material - even in a year's time. I choose what I find best in the specific situation.

[@MikeBonnieMartin]

My line puzzle is on the other end of the spectrum. I've always used polyester double braid for sail controls. But my new(ish) RS Aero came with high density polyester (dyneema, spectra) control lines. I'm about to replace outhaul, cunningham, and reefing lines on a small catalina capris. I'm almost sure plain old polyester double braid is right but not sure if I'm being old-fashioned.

[@sabincolton602]

I have used a 12 lb lead sentinel (a beer can filled with lead and embedded hardware) when anchoring for 50 years. I lower it to the bottom and then raise it a few to 6 feet. It keeps the chain, 10 to 20 feet on the bottom and works just fine.

[@todddunn945]

I use nylon 8 braid (or brait) for mooring lines. I like it because it has a soft hand and stows better than three strand or other styles. It is more susceptible to chafe and snagging, but I buy it in bulk when it is on sale and simple make up new lines every few years. I have three strand nylon spliced onto the end of my 150' of chain, but have only used it maybe 3-4 times here in Maine. When I replace that line I will probably use 8 strand nylon.

[@kurtism9040]

The email ad for this video showed a bridal type snubber, but you did not mention it. I'm going to assume that my use of nylon for the bridal snubber, on my 22' cruiser is appropriate and a larger boat would use poly. Eh?

[@aquaholic3]

Super excellent video and information Tim...

[@markmaugle4599]

Any idea how long a nylon like will last in the sun? If you are anchoring in many different depths would this extend the life of using nylon anchor rode?

[@igorkung3753]

Thanks for the great video! How do you inspect a nylon line to know if it's time to replace it? My anchor rode has 35 ft of chain and 250 ft of nylon on my Ericson 35-3. The nylon rode seems to work fine after years of use. I bought the boat 2 years ago, and the nylon rode has been there for an unknown number of years.

[@derekge5794]

I believe he started when the exterior of the line becomes hard it’s past its working life. This was aided by early in the vid.

[@corvavw6447]

Goede uiteenzetting welke lijnen te gebruiken🎉 Zie al mijn hele vaarleven dat mensen bezuinigen op goede lijnen en ankers incl kettingen. Kijk in de winter naar afgemeerde boten😢? Dure yachten ,miserabele lijnen vaak gebruikt. Bedankt voor deze uiteenzetting 🎉😊

[@WillN2Go1]

Anchor rode won't get much sunlight at all unless you anchor in the same depth over and over again. I made a Rode Ratio chart by laser printing a spreadsheet, then highlighting the different colors, then I laminated it and double stick taped it to the inside of my anchor locker lid. I'm not worried that the highlighting will fade because the total length of time that locker will be open in the sun even over many years is insignificant. (My method was to weave 6' of cheap poly line in my anchor rode chain at the various distances. No more squinting for a few cable ties, or flaking paint. I considered all the color codes others have used. None are easy to remember. So I used ROY G BIV which we all learn in school. So 0=RED 25=Yellow 50=Green 75=Blue 100= RED again. [For metric measurement RED=0 ORANGE=10m, Y=20m, G=30, B=40 and R=50m, Y=60m.] Works great. I learned this last year from Jon and it worked great. When I walk forward to drop the chain I just keep the depth reading in mind. Say 22' I look on the chart for 20' and 6:1 and it says Yellow. Then I drop anchor and chain to Green (50') and then go back and reverse to set it. Then forward dropping more. Then reverse and tug on it a bit. Usually no other boats are near by so 6:1 is super secure. When I made the chart/wove the color strands, I forgot to add in the height of the deck to the water, so I just lean over and watch for the color poly to go about half way under the surface. I think this is more reliable than any chain counter. And if I was worried about my poly fading, I'd drop the color below the surface. )

[@DamonCruz-k1c]

In Mexico (Pacific side) I have used all chain; 40-47' boats, weight only slightly problematic. Dock lines, however, are a problem as we get several tormentas (storms) per year, and my trimaran lost a cleat and another dock line to bouncing out of sync with the dock. I now have rubber snubbers, but the problem is they're made fit certain sizes of line. Q1: Does anyone know of a 1-size-fits-all snubber? Q2: How do you tell 3-strand poly from 3-strand nylon, and when/why did they start making double braid nylon? Confusion over what you have (you always inherit line when you buy a boat) is real.

[@erichyney6287]

Ok. I'm second. Thanks for sharing Tim.😊

[@rorymacintosh6691]

Anchor line doesn’t get a lot of UV. I don’t think that’s an issue. For chief I’ve never had a problem, but if the boat is bouncing around a lot, I carry some plastic tubing that I can wrap around the roller portion of it. I’ve got 50 feet of chain right now, but 100 would be better. Also, I have three strand nylon, possibly not the best, great for stretch. I thought it would be a problem with windless, but it makes these beautiful little coils so all good.

[@Mribar477]

How about 8 strand dacron lines which have very high breaking force as dock line?

[@Spar19row]

I'm rigging up a 2nd anchor for my 35 foot sailboat. It's a large/light Danforth design. I want to use this in deep water, sometimes I would like to stop in water that is over 100 feet deep for fishing. Putting out my main Rochna with all it's chain and thick rode is impractical (I don't have a windlass). What I would like to do is use my light Danforth with about 35 feet of chain an 300 feet of nylon. I want to use the thinnest line and chain possible. The boat weighs about 13,000 lbs. I'm keeping this anchor and chain in my stern lazette; so, I want it to be light and not use up too much space. Any recommendations regarding the width of the chain and line???

[@normanplotkin8105]

What about dyneema core Dacron outer braid for sheets and halyards?

[@TCGE08]

Thoughts on the Davis shockle stretchy thingy for chain?

[@terrykraft1356]

My dockmaster recommends them over rubber

[@petervanderwaart1138]

Now, what splices and knots do you use on anchor rodes?

[@bhartley1024]

It's worth noting that black nylon has better UV resistance than white. If you ever see some old degraded multicolour polypropylene rope, you will see that the black strands are in the best condition, and the lighter colours will have many more broken strands.

[@timevans8223]

How did you end up with a photograph of my boat and chain snubber set up at 5.55 in your video?

[@practical-sailor]

Hi 👋 we use photos to help illustrate the video. We find them on social media or shared online and make sure we don’t use anything copyrighted. If you don’t want this photo in the video we’d be happy to remove and replace it. Just let us know. Thanks 🙏

[@timevans8223]

@practical-sailor no problem with using the photo. I was just curious how it got there. I am guessing we were anchored in Antigua at the time. The boat is now in the UK. Back in the Caribbean next year. By the way, that snubber attaches to the centre cleat so that we get lots of stretch without risk of the chain hook being knocked off on the bottom in calm conditions. We see lots of boats with snubbers that are way too thick. They will never give the stretch needed to absorb gusts and wash from passing boats. We use a single 15mm snubber line of 12 metre length on a 18 tonne boat. It stretches. We see other boats with thicker line and twin bridle type snubbers and they are short. These are not snubbing, they are simply taking the load of the chain of the windlass

[@timschlueter1861]

In this picture I see a single snubber line and chain hanging limp. That is, not using a bridle. Regardless, shouldn't you run your snubber through a bow cleat to relieve the bow roller?

[@timevans8223]

@timschlueter1861 the bow roller is made from 12mm 316 s/s plate. Strong as they come. This isn't a Jeanneau. The snubber line runs along the deck to the centre cleat. This reduces how much snubber line needs to be in the water and reduces the risk of the chain hook touching bottom and coming off the chain.

[@StephenLloydTheYachtRigger]

One other interesting factoid about wet nylon is that it is weaker than when dry, and a lot heavier because of how much water it absorbs, compared to polyester. Maybe you did mention that and I missed it...

[@LucasBarkley-18]

dose a dinghy coming of a trailer due to a strap breaking count???

[@GordonDavis-j8q]

My only issues mooring here in Alberta on lakes, is boats and jet skis going through mooring fields and anchored boats at speed and cutting/breaking the mooring lines. I lost 2 lines so far this year. One was witnessed and the other the boat had paint transfer. Zero law enforcement out here.

[@practical-sailor]

Wow!!!!

[@GinoDelG]

Hey Tim, I have a story you may be interested in. My wife and I were sailing our Brewer 44 in the Bahamas. We were at anchor when another boat dragged onto us. We became trapped because we couldn’t release our snubber. I’ve come up with some solutions.

[@practical-sailor]

Ooooo that sounds interesting!!! Drop me an email? Love to chat

[@GinoDelG]

@@practical-sailor I had trouble finding your email.

[@GinoDelG]

@@practical-sailorwhat is your email address?

[@richardduval9237]

Thank you

[@lambertoazzi7883]

Do not underestimate the paria of the ropes... the humble polypropylene, used by fishermen worldwide: a godsent when you have to tie lines on shore with a dinghy 😊 Cheap as hell it doesn't compare with the more noble fibres but on a long distance cruiser sure it has it's place

[@greghorne8678]

Would be worth mentioning how much easier it is to splice three strand nylon vs the other braids. Often double braid must be brand new to splice properly..

[@MtnTuna]

is polyester the same as polypropylene?

[@DomTomac]

Not at all. Polyester doesn't stretch much, is strong & doesn't float. Polypropylene stretches, is relatively weak & floats.

[@MtnTuna]

@@DomTomac ok, thanx. was just making sure. but you must admit it has its place- the ability of polypro to stretch 40% of its length & return to its original length & still retain its strength is unique among ropes/lines. the shock absorbing benefits must be why its used aboard ships.

[@DomTomac]

It can be confusing and perhaps I was confused. I think what you are referring to being used to moor ships is ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene (UHMWPE) It is VERY strong, very little stretch & does float. Its usually sold under the brand names Dyneema or Specta. Polypropylene is much weaker & alot less expensive stuff that floats.

[@MannyB-b7l]

​@DomTomac Polypropylene is ideal for docking lines, even if it's less durable than the others. Just look at what all the fishing boats use.

[@ottifantiwaalkes9289]

You did fail to mention the impact of wet vs. Dry nylon or polyester lines. And generally braided lines even though nylon stretches less than 3-strand. Especially if the core is not braided but straight fibers. Also, you did not talk about good breathing vs. Heat build up chafe gear like hoses.

[@gmarie701]

Is there an easy way to tell the difference between nylon and polyester boating lines ? Great video again! Thanks.

[@firefighter4443]

So complete newb here, but what about hemp line? What are its pros and cons?

[@schroderingerscat]

i was always of thee impression that hemp rope was best for snubbers and anchor line ? I could be wrong

[@CaptNickRivelli]

Hemp rope is the best choice for literally nothing. 1/3 the strength of nylon, rots if you don’t properly dry it, and significantly shorter lifespan.

[@gregbrazier209]

I was told 3 strand has more stretch than braid. So use 3 strand to moor.

[@stanleybest8833]

To me, rope is consumables. Any cheap fat rope is my thing. There's even a floating rope called polypropylene. I haven't gotten aboard this chain thing. I'm aware that aluminum anchors give more grab for their weight. I'm going to try an aluminum crankcase half as an anchor. That with a little chain and a big ring for the rope. No real rust bleed and scratch. I heard countless people say half rope, half chain, and a Rocna. A big one. I want to try my way first.