Doctor Explains Imane Khelif Olympic Boxing Controversy

[@manyourselfup1]

Should she be allowed to boxe with women?

[@Writeous0ne]

If they are DSD and went through male puberty 100% no... it's not even debatable to a doctor.

[@dollishillwork]

As an analogy, if a man is 9 or 10 feet tall, are you going to ban him from playing basketball just because he is 2 or 3 feet taller than others? Of course not. He is just using his height to his advantage. So, by the same token, Imane can box other women and use her advantage.

[@Writeous0ne]

No because 1. Sports aren't separated by category of height - but they are by sex/gender. (for obvious reasons) 2. There are no 9 or 10 feet tall people, there are people who have genetic issues that cause them to be really tall but almost all of them are registered disable and have severe physical problems due to their height issues. 3. Not all basketball positions require height. No NBA team plays 5 Centres who are all 7 foot tall because they would get beaten by quicker and more agile players. Also it's been proven it's harder for taller players to shoot due to size and angles. Now if i take 3 boxers who are a similar height and weight A. Is a typical male XY. B. Is a typical female XX. C. Is a male XY DSD. Now we can conclude without even getting into depth that it would be outright wrong for A and B to compete against each other right? That's how it is now in almost every sport or athletics. Now C. If C is a male DSD with XY chromosomes and went through male puberty, has high testosterone, high bone density, low body fat, male bone structure, male strength... a combination of a few of those things then they're in the category of Person A not B, clearly. And putting them in the category of B would be unfair and unsafe, clearly.

[@dollishillwork]

@@Writeous0ne of course there are no 9 or 10 feet tall people and this was just a hypothetical extreme. The point I am trying to make is that it is possible for a person to be born in one gender but they develop differently to the norm and as a result, they can have certain advantages. Sometimes there is no such thing as a level playing field. By the way, you can’t have a competition restricted just to the C example you gave as than you will just have one or two competitors!

[@Writeous0ne]

@@dollishillwork the hypothetical you used isn't useful though - which is why i could counter it very easily. The one i used is, the reason it is useful is because that's what is used today in most sports governing bodies - in a case like Semenya who refused to reduce their testosterone to a normal female level, the reason why is obviously because they know their performance will reduce massively. So for example the 2016 Olympics when 3 46 XY Karyotype DSD won the top 3 medals in the 800m, this was an actual example where my hypothetical happened. It was obviously an injustice and unfairness to all of the women in that event. Also i wasn't saying the C would be in their own category just pointing out that it would be no dffierent to allowing the A XY males to compete against XX women given they share more biological similarities than the XX women.

[@dollishillwork]

@@Writeous0ne Paris 2024 may be the last time a XY DSD is allowed to compete in a woman’s event at the highest level.

[@elsen3066]

What even is this? Which one is supposed to be the doctor?

[@Writeous0ne]

Suggesting that because athletes have genetic advantages over their opponents so it's fine for a XY DSD to have advantages over XX female is is a straw man. Sports are already separated into male and female categories because it's a scientific fact that male have many physical advantages over females. Any XY DSD who have the same physical attributes as a XY male should not be competing against XX women. Example one Person A has XY male chromosomes, male bone density, male body fat, male muscle mass, male skeleton and male levels of testosterone. Person B has XX female chromosomes, female bone density, female body fat, female muscle mass, female skeleton and female levels of testosterone. In that example Person A would not be allowed to compete against person B under the guidelines of basically every sports governing body on Earth. Now Person A could be an XY male. Person A could also be a XY DSD male who was gendered female at birth. This example is a great way to prove how it would be contradictory to say on one hand Males can't compete against Females but on the other hand a DSD who has the same OR some of the same attributes as a Male can compete against females.

[@dollishillwork]

@Writeous0ne: see me analogy please.

[@Writeous0ne]

@@dollishillwork i have steel manned both positions and the one in my comment holds up. The analogy you use has many problems. By your logic shouldn't everyone compete in the same division then?

[@AprilFletcher-je4ox]

That why she was bully