Doctor Who 12x5 Reaction

[@scottredding7357]

I love the details in the episode. The Gallifreyan symbols around the broken light. The fact that the lighthouse had a blue door and a light on top. Ruth’s yellow glasses.

[@LMMotoss]

Yeah they weren't messing around. They kept a lid on the secret but when you go back and look, so much jumps out (starting right at the beginning with the rondel-shaped mirror)

[@CrankyGrandma]

Scott Redding good points! I missed that!

[@TorchwoodPandP]

Good call on the chameleon circuit. And loved your reaction to Jack!

[@LMMotoss]

As expected from someone with your user name! Thank you

[@joshual7]

I have the complete opposite opinion. I couldn't stand the Moffat era and was genuinely glad when he left. But this episode was really great. I haven't been this excited in Doctor Who for a long time. But that's the great thing about the show. It's always constantly evolving and changing. There will always be specific eras that different groups of people will either love, find indifferent or hate. I'm currently indifferent to Chibnall's era so far but I was glad to see some RTD elements return here especially Jack. It's been 9 years since he last showed up in the Who world. It feels so good to have him back.

[@LMMotoss]

I think if I had watched the RTD Era live, I may have liked it more. I really liked some of the ideas introduced then, but not the episodes themselves in most cases (except some notable standouts). Too early to tell if Chibnall era can beat either of the previous for me

[@stevensallsorts]

Chibbers didn't run Torchwood, but he did write a fair few, Torchwood was Russel t Davies baby :)

[@LMMotoss]

Everyone was all worried because he wrote "Cyber Woman". So far at least that bit of worry was for nothing

[@philippschmidt80]

Ruth is most likely pre Hartnell from a previous regeneration cycle.

[@LMMotoss]

I don't think that exactly fits from what we know (although this season does look to be trying to turn "what we know" about Time Lord society on its head). The TARDIS was never stuck as a police box until after Hartnell stole it (which we've SEEN so we know it is true). From a meta perspective as well, this would be a pretty bad move. A lot of the Classic Who fans are grumpy, but that would be nothing compared to if the Doctor's entire existence as we know it, was retconned. Even in the new series, Clara "saw" all of the Doctor's faces, even the War Doctor who had been blocked out. So already even if Ruth is 2.5, we would be slightly retconning.

[@DavidMacDowellBlue]

13:50 If a Time Lord is killed instantly, then they don't have a chance to regenerate. Another possibility/theory (not my own)--there is an alternate history of the Time Lords which they covered up/erased. Then again (this one is mine), perhaps something fractured time in some way creating an alternate timeline that is bleeding into the main one. Could even be an origin story of the O Master. Maybe. Time after all can be re-written. 14:40 Am I the only person amused by "Doctor Ruth"?????

[@LMMotoss]

I would prefer the alternate dimension theory but Doctor 2.5 isn't too bad either. Just as long as they stick the landing, I will remain very pleased by this episode

[@JArm1996]

Going on what you said about Matt Smith, it can still stand that that was his last regeneration in The Time of the Doctor, it was just the end of that cycle. So it's still possible that William Hartnell was the first of that cycle, we just now know there were previous cycles before that got renewed.

[@LMMotoss]

The limit to number of regenerations was always self-imposed by the Time Lords anyways so I guess it does make sense that Smith could still REALLY be feeling like he was done for even though beforehand he could have regenerated who knows how many times

[@spiderfingers86]

According to Chibnall, this doctor is not a fake out, but is legitimate. Interested to see where this goes.

[@LMMotoss]

There are a lot of potential explanations and really not a good way to know what is actually right yet

[@spiderfingers86]

Chris Chibnall has confirmed that Ruth is a doctor

[@LMMotoss]

Yeah I think that's pretty well established by the show by the end of the season

[@Ontir]

Per the Brain of morbius, Tom Baker’s Doctor was the 12th version of the Doctor. This isn’t so much a retcon as it is fixing the stupid 13 regeneration limit from the later episode, the Deadly Assassin.

[@LMMotoss]

I wouldn't say this contradicts anything from Classic Who either if you really look at it. Yes it is a soft retcon but it isn't contradictory if that makes sense

[@Ontir]

LoremasterMotoss This offers a new place in the Doctor’s history for the Valyard. Instead of being an eventual Doctor, he might be who the Doctor was, working for Division, until he, or she, had an awakening, for which the Doctor was punished.

[@spiderfingers86]

That comes later. Matt Smith also thought that he was the last time lord but that wasn't true either

[@LMMotoss]

Right, the final two episodes of this season clear that all up

[@CrankyGrandma]

While I had quibbles with a few director choices (I’d have liked a beat in jack’s reaction to learning the doc was in female form, and a few beats in his scene overall), but overall I loved the ep and the direction the show is going. You are the first reactor I’ve seen who figured out this was a chameleon arched time lord! I didn’t get that till I saw the yellow time lord energy. I’m enthusiastic about doctor who for the first time in awhile. This was great. New subscriber! Edit- you said “back to second doctor”. That’s the only regeneration we did not see complete. Two to Three. There could be a doctor in there. The time lords erased twos companions memories and they could have wiped the doctors too. And 11 was only the last incarnation IF 10.5 counted as a true regen. He might not have. The TARDIS is very early classic

[@LMMotoss]

Smith being wrong about 10.5 counting is the only way this can be retconned in a satisfying way for me. I think others figured out the chameleon arch but maybe don’t stop to talk as much as I do and so didn’t get to voice ALL of their suspicions. At least by the time the scene in the church happens, it has to enter the head of most people who saw Tennant’s era.

[@darrenwilliams2262]

@@LMMotoss it's not just 11's counting. The Timelords also thought the The Doctor was at the end of his regeneration limit and had to grant hims another cycle. Did they also make a counting error?

[@LMMotoss]

No, they would have known about this extra Doctor. So the Doctor didn't remember being Ruth, and assumed he was at the end of his cycle because of 10.5 instead of because of Ruth. He was at the end of his cycle either way, but if Ruth is really between 2 and 3, then he mistook the reason why he had run out

[@karkatvantas9557]

@@LMMotoss I mean they could've just erased the Doctor's memory of the Ruth incarnation and then granted them another regeneration so they wouldn't get suspicious.

[@darrenwilliams2262]

@@LMMotoss I see what you mean, The Doctor thought he needed a new regeneration cycle due to 10.5 and the Timelords know it's due to Ruth. All very confusing for the casual viewer.

[@stevensallsorts]

It's actually a BnB now that lighthouse

[@LMMotoss]

Nice to know. It is a beautiful location

[@itsalexney]

Pretty sure she’s between the 2nd and 3rd doctors. A lot makes sense with it honestly, and it’d be the easiest way to add her in without ruining too much and still making it interesting.

[@LMMotoss]

A lot of fandom agrees with you - I'd like her to be the ACTUAL Second Doctor from a different dimension (like the one where Handy 10th Doctor was stranded)

[@itsalexney]

LoremasterMotoss they said no alternate dimension. She’s really the doctor somewhere in this reality’s timeline.

[@LMMotoss]

Rule one - the showrunner lies. I never believe something is true until they show us on screen

[@spiderfingers86]

David Tennant was really good at speaking Judoon

[@LMMotoss]

I think he really enjoyed it

[@jomorris2596]

When Jack says he will see the Doctor again but maybe not for a long time (in his timeline because he will obviously be back later this season) I hope that he looks different. John Barrowman now has silver hair so imagine him playing a bad ass 10,000 year old Jack. Who wouldnt want that?! dexterdiscuss.wordpress.com/2020/01/26/doctor-who-season-12-episode-5-discussion-fugitive-of-the-judoon/

[@LMMotoss]

Well he DOES inevitably see the Doctor again because we're pretty sure he's the Face of Boe. But I can't see him ONLY showing up in this episode. He may not be back the rest of the season, but I think he will be before the end of Jodie's tenure. It would be too cruel for them to never meet.

[@bradbobhayhurst8604]

Maybe inbetween 2 and 3..

[@eolsunder]

yea I think its from a different dimension, due to those white beings the master was playing with, who said they were from another universe, etc. I'm guessing OUR master who died, the Master we saw earlier was from that other dimension which is why he could be there since ours died. And this Doctor is from that other dimension also. Maybe when the time lords started playing around with time travel and such back in the days of Omega, etc they created multiple dimensions/time lines and the doctor/master, etc branched off. Maybe the Jack we met isn't even our Jack, but the other dimension Jack.

[@LMMotoss]

That would be a novel way to bring the Master back (I prefer that this one is just one between Simm and Gomez that we just haven't seen

[@LMMotoss]

That means one of their memories isn't right and I really hope it is Ruth's. I don't want any big retcons

[@zvimur]

13:58 to be fair,Ruth hadn't fired a single shot, right? Also Rule N1

[@LMMotoss]

The Doctor Lies I am actually already believing that this is not some sort of switcharoo. "Ruth", although very dissimilar from the current Doctor, DOES seem to have more similar behavior to early Doctors. My current thought is that she is some sort of alternate Dimension Second Doctor (Pete's Dimension coming back too??)

[@zvimur]

@@LMMotoss BTW, Ruth, Doctor, Ruth, Doctor, Ruth....... Seriously?

[@LMMotoss]

Not only that but there are a LOT Of hints if you go back and watch the episode again (her rondel shaped mirror!)

[@docprod]

There are 13 regenerations in one cycle.

[@DeanStrickson]

Doctor FNM 12 regenerations in a cycle.

[@LMMotoss]

So they say. But it seems like whatever the Time Lords want to happen can happen. My real question is, who ultimately has control over who gets more regenerations and who doesn't? And could they pull the trick they pulled with Smith with any timelord, or just The Doctor since they are special and the originator?