Doctor Who's Metacrisis Mistake

[@HarboWholmes]

No, this video isn't about THAT line www.patreon.com/harbowholmes

[@gamerboiiiiiii]

The extreamly sexist and misandrist one?

[@Gabbagool86]

@@gamerboiiiiiii Yeah that's the one i doubt a whotube channel would want to point out that incredibly regressive and nonsensical line because well it might make the show look like it's being run by a bunch of morons. That shouldn't be a concern thought since everyone already knows that but they live in hope.

[@theinvisiblegentleman1142]

Is that why you were deleting comments that mentioned that line in the community post?

[@truefan4136]

was my comment deleted ? if so can I have a reason as to why?

[@HarboWholmes]

@@theinvisiblegentleman1142 as explained in the community post, I didn't delete anything, comments positive AND negative were randomly deleted without me doing anything

[@erubin100]

There actually WAS a simple solution to this that they could've easily thrown in with no effort: instead of 15's "prize" for beating the Toymaker being a second TARDIS, it could've been to free Donna and Rose from the meta crisis! That way there would've been an actual reason for this being a trilogy! PROBLEM SOLVED!

[@thetimeshadow6769]

That's acc a really good idea.

[@adampica9815]

​@@thetimeshadow6769i second that

[@HMMadsen]

I agree with thetimeshadow, this is good. It's simple but sounds so obvious that I'm surprised Davis didn't do it

[@WisdomShark]

Alternatively, Donna and Rose could've "let go" of the meta crisis by funneling their regeneration energy back into The Doctor, which could've been the origin of the bi-generation instead of it coming out of nowhere.

[@mjudec]

Both of these are vastly superior ideas. And would've kept the ticking clock over Donna, adding tension.

[@Doctor_What63]

Random thought, what if the Doctor absorbed the metacrisis energy to save Donna - similar to Series 1 I guess - but by absorbing another Timelord mind then causes the Bi-Generation. Not enough to fully kill 14, but 1 timelord can’t have 2 minds, hence the Bi-Generation. Would make the Bi-generation less of the random gimmick that it was, and an interesting way to resolve the metacrisis which should have been the story arc for the 3 specials

[@MarkMichalowski]

Aw, bugger - you beat me to it by three minutes. THREE MINUTES!! LOL ;-)

[@Doctor_What63]

@@MarkMichalowski great minds haha

[@StarKhan]

Fantastic idea

[@markpostgate2551]

Genius.

[@furiousfigures8714]

Can we get you writing Doctor Who?

[@jbfangirl]

I didn't like the resolution. The line about male-presenting Time Lord not knowing about letting go when he had a previous incarnation (Twelfth Doctor) whose famous last words were "Doctor, I let you go." I agree that there really wasn't much lead up to the reveal about Rose having meta-crisis energy.

[@shmikex]

The "male-presenting timelord" line was pure rubbish, considering 14's last incarnation was a female-presenting timelord.

[@Knighttt662]

And the fact that Wild Blue Yonder establishes that Donna has The Doctor's memories. Which means she knew that one day ago he was a woman. I am pretty sure that line was just there to upset people and improve engagement, since there is nothing like bad publicity

[@HuntingViolets]

@@Knighttt662 It's kind of ambiguous whether she has his memories now, because she says it's too much for her and it was the copy that talked to him about having his memories (which could have been gotten from his mind). Unless Donna is lying, which is the ambiguous part, she hasn't retained much of his memory at all. Although she would have had them during "The Star Beast," true.

[@michele219]

And considering the last words of 12 were “Doctor, I let you go”

[@swordseye2]

@@Knighttt662 Honestly that line made me so angry that I still haven't watched and still am hesitant to watch the rest of the specials

[@Xtraflux]

Tbh I feel like if they wanted to tie in to the letting go theme Donna could’ve been like “Unlike you I’ve spent all this time learning to settle down and let go” which wouldn’t have come to Donna’s mind in s4 because she was equally obsessed with adventure as the doctor at the time

[@dataweaver]

I think the later bigeneration was a similar issue: he wanted to give the 10th/14th Doctor a “happy ending” so much that he skipped the rules of proper dramatic beats.

[@empressfrozentoes5285]

this is exactly how I felt watching it. I never cared much for the star beast cause it was a little too stupid for my liking, but the giggle was actually really good up until that god awful "everybody lives!" ending. the 60th anniversary was just rife was unsatisfactory endings to plot threads, at least wild blue yonder escaped that fate

[@OkMakuTree]

One of the biggest issues with the RTD era is his tendency to not consider the larger ramifications of the Scifi concepts he introduces. For example, in School Reunion the Z-List villains the Krillitane are within a stone's throw of deciphering the algorithm of the universe, which would give them complete control of time and space. That's absurdly powerful and can be easily discovered with the help of a few mentally enhanced children, yet never gets brought up again. Does it service the character plot? I guess, but RTD definitely didn't need to introduce universally high stakes to explore of The Doctor's relationship with his current and former companions. In the 60th anniversary specials it's clear not much has changed, RTD still prioritizes hitting character beats over making his Scifi ideas airtight. I enjoyed them for what they were, but I am concerned for his upcoming seasons. I hope the other writers can reign in RTD's worst tendencies and help fill in for his weak areas.

[@matthewlacey4198]

I find RTD tends to write himself into a corner with his set ups, they're always one bigger, one better than last time and you can't keep upping the stakes like that

[@zachanikwano]

I mean, I agree but if you’re going to prioritize one thing over another I’d choose characters. Again tho the lore plot holes would drive me a bit batty.

[@DalekCaanOfSkaro]

Okay, Im no writer, but im gonna put on my fan fic head on for a second. The first problem with all these specials to me is they lacked some type of continuous story. And this comes to my second point, Im all for Donna getting her memories back, but it needs to have stakes and needs to have a powerful justification. So, heres my pitch of what RTD could have done, the story would have had Donna sacrifice herself like in the Star Beast to save her daughter and London, but it turns out her death due to the metacrisis was actually part of a big game of the Toymaker, and to save Donna, The Doctor would have to play a game with the Toymaker, and his prize would be to save Donna. The Toymaker can do anything being a celestial god, so it wouldnt be too hard to believe that he could bring Donna back. Its a rough fan fic, but it would connect each story and have Donna saved in a logical, believable and plausible way.

[@sanddagger36]

honestly having Dona finally die after getting 14 more years would not have been so bad. Or maybe the doctor sacrifices himself to save her, causing them both to regenerate

[@maegor-targaryen]

Donna explodes and turns into Matt Smith, who immediately starts snogging Rose. Jedi Force Ghost of Steven Moffat fades in, and smiles and nods.

[@michaelfraser1073]

I think the main problem is that RTD clearly wanted to quickly get it out of the way to get the old Doctor/Donna relationship back, so he could keep pretending it was the glory days of 2009 again. The core flaw of the 60th anniversary specials is how they desperately pander to nostalgia to try and win back old fans.

[@michaelfraser1073]

also, personally, I wish RTD had copied Moffat when Moffat implied the Doctor knew freezing Gallifrey would work because he spent hundreds of years thinking of a solution.

[@robbiefl2001]

Unfortunately I think the nostalgia pandering was the ONLY solution to bring any sort of viewership back. Chibnall ruined the image of DW that badly that most people wouldn't have come back for Ncuti's Doctor unless they saw that Russell could still handle DW effectively, and bringing David back was a good way to do this without affecting the new Doctor

[@Doctor_What63]

I’d have much preferred them to explore their relationship as the Doctor Donna, would have been something new and exciting rather than trying to give us a rehash of their pre-metacrisis relationship

[@Jack-zz7bc]

Rushing companion relationships also feels like the biggest problem with Ruby as well

[@ishathakor]

honestly all 3 of the 60th anniversary specials are literally just. season 4 part 2. there's nothing anniversary-like about it

[@Thenesrookie]

13:25 Just throwing it out there (and this is nothing but silly fan fic) Imagine if The Doctor had actually figured out how to remove the Metacrisis during his 11th incarnation. You have a scene during the climax where the ship is about to self destuct where we flash back to Doctors 11,12, and 13 coming back to erase it at various points in time. Each time they arrive to find Donna, Shaun and Rose at various happy points in their lives and naturally realises that she would've been happier without The Doctor. Showing that they have in fact pogressed and can "let her go" So the only bring back the Metacrisis as a last resort.

[@redsquirrel724]

My idea. Sorry for the paragraph: Considering how ridiculous the whole the meta crisis resolution and Bi-Regeneration seemed, I really don't get why the meta-crisis couldn't have been the reason FOR the Bi-Regeneration. The Meta-Crisis not killing Donna straight away because some of it has been passed down to Rose isn't an awful idea and makes sense somewhat from a reproductive standpoint. But like you said it would've worked for it to stay lingering over them both. Maybe even a better reason for why the Doctor figures out the Not Thing in 'Wild Blue Yonder' isn't the real Donna, because the meta-crisis is so powerful it can't replicate it. Then in 'The Giggle' the Doctor tells Donna he doesn't know if he could save her this time and she says maybe this time she'll save him. They could've run with that. After the Toymaker shoots 14 as he regenerates it could be as Donna is finally beginning to burn up. She hugs him and the physical touch as he's regenerating, like with the hand in 'Journey's End', could cause the Doctor to take in the Meta-crisis energy and leave him with 2 Timelord brains in his head which is too much for even him. But because he can regenerate it causes the rare Bi-regeneration. Donna is saved as a result with her memories and 15 comes in and plays the Toymaker at the final game 1 v 1. This also solidifies Donna's importance as the most important women in all of creation and why they always met each other as "Destiny". 14 could finally retire as he did with his best friend and 15 could go off in the TARDIS. Equally for a less convoluted solution 15's prize for winning could've just been for meta-crisis to be fixed and Donna live with her memories. But I prefer the first idea.

[@benstevens44]

Hmm... what if Donna touching a regenerating 14 releases the metacrisis energy and basically creates a whole new incarnation, and the paradox is what causes the bigeneration? Presume there's a "natural" version of events where 13 regenerated directly into 15, as we'd expected going into that finale. It plays out basically as the 60th anniversary did, but with the 15th Doctor instead of the 14th, and with the whole letting go of the metacrisis thing not happening in The Star Beast. Flash forward to The Giggle, and the Toymaker shoots the Doctor with the supervillain laser. The Doctor begins to regenerate. Donna collapses - this is the point where the metacrisis energy is about to burn her up. In desperation, she reaches out, her hand touches the Doctor's... and things break. The metacrisis was the 10th Doctor, all bundled up and copied into Donna Noble's head (and a spare body but let's ignore that part.) That energy, that essence, gets released into a proper regeneration, and it creates a new regeneration, one that was never supposed to happen. The 14th Doctor is created in the image of the 10th. But the metacrisis doesn't flow in only one direction. It ripples backward, down the Doctor's timestream. The new incarnation of the Doctor is created, not at the moment of regeneration in The Giggle... but back at the moment that 13 should have become what is now 15. The time-displaced 14th Doctor now exists through the events of The Star Beast, Wild Blue Yonder, and The Giggle; the version where 15 did all this is overwritten. The Toymaker now causes 14 to regenerate. Donna reaches out. A paradox is formed - 14 is now a part of the event that creates 14. The paradox is resolved by the regeneration becoming a bigeneration, as the two incarnations of the Doctor who are meant to exist at this moment now try to occupy the same space-time. What's left of the metacrisis energy is enough that it allows 14 to return from the brink of death; 14 has not regenerated into 15 (yet). At some point in 14's future, he will regenerate into 15, who will be pulled back to this moment, a bit irate and confused. Meanwhile, Donna is spared. The metacrisis energy released into the Doctor's regeneration, she's just Donna Noble again - with all the memories she should always have had, and maybe just a tiny spark of that old Time Lord consciousness; she'll never be the Doctor-Donna again, but she can still remember, still understand what being the Doctor really is and what it means. Rest of the episode continues as written, why bother to change it; the TARDIS isn't duplicated, the "extra" one is just snatched out of time at the same point 15 was. We get an explanation for 14, Donna's brain gets to be a little more dramatic, 15 doesn't just suddenly come out of nowhere as a second Doctor with years of therapy he shouldn't have had if he followed 14 at that exact moment in time.

[@SageWon-1aussie]

I had a similar idea while watching this VOD. WBY could have happened because Donna tried to use her Timelord memories to operate the Tardis. The No-things could have let slip that the metacrisis was not resolved by "letting go", just delayed. The Toymaker could have puppet showed Donna burning up from the metacrisis, pushing the Doctor into overdrive. The Doctor gets distracted by the metacrisis, which allows the Toymaker to make the fatal strike. The Doctor uses their regeneration phase to absorb the metacrisis energy, saving Donna but causing the Bi-regeneration. The 15th Doctor points out the Toymaker lied and cheated bringing about the Toymaker's defeat though a metaphysical crisis. The 14th Doctor has to stay with the Noble family to retire and do therapy because the 15th Doctor takes the Tardis. This leaves a storyline thread (is Rose Noble still at risk from the metacrisis?) for later episodes to explore. Doesn't even require changing "The Star Beast" in any particular way. I'm angry with this special because they didn't bother trying to make the pseudo science sound scientific. "Scatterfry the positronics" kinda broke me, and nobody googled the size of London. 25 square miles? Try 700 mate.

[@yospidey0078]

Okay why aren't you writing the show? This is really good, and it makes more sense.

[@PixarPins]

It’s really interesting to compare these specials to S8, 9 and 10. Moffat has some undeniable flaws in his writing and made some big mistakes with consequences lacking emotional weight (Amy loosing Melody/Doctor ‘dying’) and finales that were confusing and overly complex. The show saw real criticism for this and its reputation suffered, and Moffat responded. Danny’s/Clara’s deaths were given so much emotional and narrative consequence. The finales tied up the emotional themes of the series while providing a more straight forward spectacle. He really learned from the mistakes me made. RTDs era had the similar mix of great and mixed stories all of Moffat’s run had. But personally I remember sitting in disbelief and dejection as the Master’s return story which had been built up majestically tumbled apart into garbage hand waving. The same for the end of Journey’s end. By Last of the Time Lords I was ready to give up on the show, only to be won back by Matt Smith. But the general audience loved RTD through the run, and I feel he never really had to grapple with the real criticisms of his storytelling. The fact that the specials exhibit the exact same issues (and strengths!) and I really worry that a general audience may not be as forgiving when genre telly has changed so much in the meantime.

[@Jackson-ub1uv]

What's funny is that, by bringing back the Toymaker, all RTD had to do was _not_ explain why Donna survived and have the Toymaker later reveal that _he_ was responsible for it. By making it the Toymaker's fault, not only would it have lent some mystery to how it was resolved and help tie The Star Beast to the other two episodes, but it would've also been a satisfying conclusion for the audience.

[@wanderingrandomer]

And to go furthur with the Toymaker, his return could've been better explained by the devestation of the Flux ripping the universe apart or something and allowing him back in, rather than that BS with salt in episode 2. That would further the guilt we are *told* the Doctor feels for causing the Flux.

[@SSJPENGUIN]

Yeah I did think the Toymaker was ultimate workaround for something like this but alas

[@efad3215]

You basically have Q-with-conditions in your pocket....And you *don't* use him to fix a plothole or revive a "dead" character? What are you even doing at that point as a writer, even a writer of fanfiction, much less a hired writer working on this project you've basically had 15 years to think up fiction of

[@TJKlimoski]

Do you think the ending to series 1 with Eccelston might have actually been because Eccelston left? Could RTD's original intent have been for the 9th doctor to absorb and then 'let it go'. Honestly it would fit into his writing style more 😂. Maybe we should thank Eccelston for that series 1 ending having actual consequences.

[@Gamelover254]

Honestly RTD got a bit lucky that someone left at the end of each season. It made it seem like the events had actual consequences. Series one was the death of the ninth doctor. Series 2 was Rose being trapped in a different world. Series 3 was Martha getting fed up and leaving and he also lost the master again. Series 4 was of course Donna losing her memory. And the specials concluded with losing David Tennant. All these departures made the journey feel real and it made the events that caused them seem bigger and more memorable.

[@HuntingViolets]

He was originally supposed to survive but then they used it to write him out, out of necessity.

[@maegor-targaryen]

@@Gamelover254 Honestly, it made the RTD era feel a bit H*rry P*tter to me, where the Big Plot Event always happens at the end of the school year, after the exams, because the big baddie _really_ cares about the formal education of the teenage boy he’s obsessed with.

[@engineerforthefuture8593]

I agree that it was lazy storytelling. But it seems dishonest to me to wholly ignore Rose's statement since it was not only polarizing and unnecessary, it also seems very out of character from the otherwise kind and supportive Rose. It was very antagonistic for no reason. And they both got the Doctor's memories, so they both know he was a woman like a day ago, so it doesn't even work logically. It's just terrible on every level.

[@markpostgate2551]

This is a bit cynical and perhaps tinhatted of me, but I think the "engagement" gained from upsetting people is considered to the production team to be positive PR. It's like the neglected kid being disruptive at school because getting in trouble is the most attention he ever gets. And maybe it works - how do we incentivise quality over obnoxiousness if obnoxiousness gets noticed and quality gets ignored?

[@empressfrozentoes5285]

I agree, I'm literally the person they're trying to pander to (read: LGBT person) with that line and it's literally the most cringe inducing line I've ever heard in a doctor who episode 💀

[@BoeBins]

​@@markpostgate2551 actually it's not tinhatted at all. In fact you are spot on about engagement. Look up Parrot Analytics.

[@avocadothecat]

a@@empressfrozentoes5285 also it makes you guys look bad. Never have I met an actual LGBT person that is patronusing like that.

[@empressfrozentoes5285]

@avocadothecat you've highlighted another problem I had with it; it paints a picture of LGBT people that's so chronically online that it doesn't even exist off the internet. I sincerely hope russ never tries to write an LGBT character again, he peaked with sky sylvestry and now he's just showing his ineptitude trying to write one for what he thinks is "the modern audience".

[@emperorholocron8278]

The metacrisis, the bigeneration, the “Fresh start, happy ending for The Doctor” was just something that was done so Russell wouldn’t have to put down his favourite toy. I mean we see that 15 EVEN AFTER the whole “fresh slate” break is still haunted by The Timeless Child stuff. Wish David’s Doctor didn’t get that special treatment…

[@joshuacroll8534]

This is the issue with Russel, he has really obvious favourites, Rose, Ten and Donna, and seemingly can't put them down

[@Renfield286]

I am so glad that RTDs problem with endings is something that someone else has noticed and not just me being overly nit picky about a family TV show. I'm not a big fan of RTDs writing and I always seem to prefer the episodes where he is the show runner and he lets other folks write the actual episode, just focusing on overarching plots. And I agree, Donna shouldn't have been brought back as it does completely cheapen the whole arc. And also, such a wasted opportunity for an interesting story. The second "special" just felt like filler.

[@DJ-LD]

15:54 I can actually think of atleast two ways for it to have worked. 1 where she gets rid of it in the first special and the other being how she gets rid of it in the third. First one could have been that the doctor found a way to distribute said energy back against his own time stream. specifically in between the David tennant incarnations and that it was like a circuit board needing to be completed. Thus the need for their old face needing to return to complete the action. Two. The doctor found away to recombine the meta crisis back into himself similar to how he took the heart of the tardis energy back except without the kissing. This could have also be the reason the doctor bi-regeneratead as the energy having been gone so long and even passed down could have put an unforeseen fold into the doctor's thought of solution.

[@shmikex]

I like the Doctor absorbing the Meta Crisis back into himself and using that to cause the bi-generation. Heck, it could render 14's incarnation human and give him more of a "grow old with Donna and the Nobles" retirement.

[@luisd.mancilla8169]

My head canon is that the original plot was: Donna's memories get restored during The Star Beast, being a sort of "ticking clock" on both Donna and Rose during the entire trilogy, so when they come across the Toymaker, he makes the Doctor regenerate into 15 (the usual way) and once he gets defeated, the prize claimed is for Donna and Rose to be saved

[@shmikex]

I like the idea of the Meta Crisis energy being split between Donna and Rose, but HATED the "just let it go" statement. One of two things could have happened. 1. The Meta Crisis energy still needs to be released. The Doctor now has a solution to remove the energy or knows where to go. It could be Galifrey (although the timelords are gone, the lab equipment might not all be destroyed) or one of the other places the Doctor went to during 11, 12, or 13's run (on screen or off screen). It could be the stuff of the next two episodes. Then at the end 15 splits from 14 and Donna and 14 still settle down with her family. 2. By splitting the Meta Crisis energy between two humans (two hearts), Donna and Rose are fine. Donna and 14 are involved in the other two stories, and when 15 splits from 14, 14 and Donna still settle down with her family.

[@Mugiwara2k]

That is probably my one gripe about it, the whole ‘Let it go’ thing. The idea of it being split between Donna and Rose was great, but the let it go thing did feel a bit lazy. I still enjoyed it overall though.

[@markpostgate2551]

The thing is the lack of seeding of clues suggests to me that RTD only writes one draft, because I accept that when one starts a story one doesn't necessarily know what the ending will be, but on a second draft you would know where it is supposed to be heading; you would know what information you have to sprinkle into the dialogue, what contradictions you need to erradicate et cetera. So the only way I think this step manages to get avoided is he never looks at a script after he has finished writing it. The lack of a craftsman's obsessiveness confuses me. It just seems to me he has more confidence than talent. Plus, they could have turned solving the metacrisis into the driving force of the trilogy. For example if the reason the Doctor takes Donna to the edge of the universe is not by accident because Donna spilled her coffee, but because the lower rate of entropy on the furthest ripples of the big bang also slows down the deterioration to Donna's mind, giving him time to come up with a solution [full disclosure: technobabble bs, by the way, but it does come across as vaguely credible, right? It's good enough for Doctor Who!]. And maybe he does find a solution on that distant spaceship, but it is that, and not the salt-thing that causes this doorway between dimensions to open allowing the Toymaker to cross between the planes of existence. Then that would be a proper trilogy rather than just three random episodes strung together.

[@reubenmanzo2054]

I think it was Ernest Hemingway who said "every first draft is crap".

[@markpostgate2551]

@@reubenmanzo2054 I know Ernest Hemmingway reportedly wrote first drafts whilst drunk and edited whilst sober.

[@efad3215]

I mean, the TARDIS went to the edge of time once, why not go to the edge of space?

[@johnphamlore8073]

The Doctor has a horrifying inability to think outside the box to solve problems with companions. To me, at some point the Doctor will slap their foreheads and realize that Bill and Heather could easily locate and crack open the Quantum Shade freeing Clara's soul.

[@something1600]

If Donna could have just released the Doctor-Donna WHY DID SHE NOT DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

[@lucashampton6269]

Your idea about the metacrisis being a ticking time bomb through the trilogy of specials is good. Donna even has a line in The Giggle. When she's figuring out the giggle and music, she says "I know I've only got minutes to live." That line always stood out as she wasn't under any immediate threat to her life.

[@tzarg]

when does she say that

[@lucashampton6269]

@@tzarg she says it when she's explaining the musical pattern in the brain wave spike. It's after Kate demonstrates the effectiveness of the Zeedex by letting hers get turned off.

[@Blandy8521]

For me the problem is the missed potential that getting rid of it in episode 1 was. Even if we kept the plot mostly the same I think that the metacrisis being resolved in ep2 and that causing the Toymaker to be able to enter reality would've been more interesting. Have the salt game (still not sure how that allowed the Toymaker into reality) combined with the energy of the metacrisis be what let the Toymaker in

[@Arizonaguy1856]

what if it was both? and thats why the third special has the big bad of the toymaker?

[@Mugiwara2k]

The idea of the MetaCrisis being split between Rose and her mother Donna was a smart work around to the problem of Donna dying if she remembered, but “Let it go” really just felt a bit lazy. I feel like there was a bunch of different ways they could have resolved the Doctor-Donna thing.. but all things considered, I still enjoyed the episode overall.

[@majerelynn]

I kept thinking what if Donna ended up giving the energy back to the Doctor in the 3rd special as a way to help kick start his regeneration. That way it saves her as well as helps out the Doctor.

[@sipope70]

Just imagine if after defeating the Toymaker the Doctor has to choose his Prize and chooses to save Donna with the 15th Doctor choosing to banish the Toymaker from Earth. The consiquence being the 14th doesn't have a 2nd Tardis happier to give up his old life to stay with his friend

[@Marconius6]

I actually thought splitting the energy because Donna had a child was a clever idea. The "just let it go" thing with the random misandry... not so much.

[@zurgtheemperor975]

When I saw Donna and Rose "let it go" at the end of The Star Beast, I was confused. In Journey's End, it was said that Donna had to forget about the Doctor to survive, but then she and Rose were able to remember the Doctor without dieing.

[@christophersheets5452]

What if Donna thought of a way to discharge the regeneration energy into The Tardis, triggering the wild adventure rather than the coffee? Rose could be there too but still in the Tardis when it flies off in WBY

[@SageWon-1aussie]

Using her "time lord knowledge" to operate the Tardis, not realising the modifications that have been implemented in the intervening series, which leads to travelling outside of the universe. Pouring tea on the console was just... cheap.

[@Julios_47]

I think that they could try to extend this storyline until The Giggle, then 14th sacrifice his regeneration to save his best friend

[@Doctor_What63]

This video is spot on! Series 4 was my favourite series, so this resolution was almost insulting. I didn’t have an issue with the metacrises being passed down to Rose, that made sense, but the what follows and how it’s executed was poor. I now can’t rewatch my favourite series and enjoy that tragic ending which showcased some excellent acting, writing, directing and score without thinking about how it gets undone so messily in the 60th

[@descatter]

Yes - it was all going so compellingly well until the ‘let it go’ bullshit. My sister, who is, like me, proudly just ‘woke’ enough without resorting to tedious silliness, said it best - ‘That is just CRINGE!’ And indeed it was. Fuck, it was an awful moment on transmission and it was hard for The Star Beast to recover from it, because it was all building really well until he kicked it over and pissed on it. You know what - it was such a sloppy joke of a resolution, we should try to come up with something brilliant and satisfying to replace it in our imaginations. Sometimes, head canon can come to the rescue.

[@Doctor_What63]

@@descatter tbh I started to question how well it was building up, the Doctor didn’t seem to care about Donna’s head blowing up when he started acting all cocky saying he has 2 hearts and handing her the sonic screwdriver 🤦‍♂️

[@descatter]

@@Doctor_What63 indeed, even knocking on her door and changing his tune to her remembering him, not just seeing him, pushed the integrity of that arc somewhat, but there still seemed to be the possibility up until then that he was operating in safe parameters like a tightrope walker.

[@mathieuleader8601]

the inclusion of the Meta-Crisis in the Star Beast felt like a prime case of Deus ex machina

[@GorensteinMedia]

I touched upon this in my own review but you explained it an awful lot better than I did. The only thing I'd add is that episode rather irritatingly implies that Donna could have just 'let the metacrisis go' in Journey's End, and the only reason the Doctor erased her memories instead was - due to sexism - he didn't think letting it go was an option. That's at least part of why the "male-presenting time lord" line wound me up so much. Although, to be fair, listening to women had not been invented in 2008, so it was an easy mistake for the Doctor to make.

[@EddJones25]

If the theme is "let it go", Donna could well have done all that, saved the day, and then died, we're going into a whole new era, time to let companions from RTD1 go too

[@sassquatch212]

I was so excited for the 60th. Couldn’t believe how disappointing it was. Wild Blue Yonder was decent but the others were terrible in my opinion. Totally not worth bringing back Tennant and Tate and ruining Donna’s perfect ending. It was always going to be difficult to do justice to bringing back Donna, and really it probably should never have happened, shame they didn’t even try.

[@Electrobadgr]

This whole episode was an insult to the audience, it was what made me decide once and for all that the show is dead and it's never coming back. What an absolutely detestable, vomit inducing piece of shit

[@aDifferentJT]

Sure, the male-presenting Time Lord thing is silly given that he was literally a woman a matter of hours ago, but the real problem I have with it is that it is furthering a very harmful stereotype about men not being able to express or let go of emotions. The fact is that there are a lot of men and boys who struggle with that, they need to be told it’s ok, that letting things go can be difficult but it is possible to move on. This episode seemed to be saying ‘letting things go is super easy for us, shame you can’t, sucks to be you, haha’ which is such a toxic message. On the other hand, having the Doctor struggling to accept he needs to seek help and take time out to deal with stuff at the end of The Giggle was so healthy, a great message, it was just such a shame that in this context that seems to be painted as failure. Maybe if RTD wanted them to just let it go he could have had Donna begging to keep the Time Lord knowledge while The Doctor and Rose convince her to let it go (The Doctor having subconsciously figured out some way in the mean time to let go of the Time Lord bit keeping her memories of him, or whatever technobabble is needed). This would have wonderfully mirrored the ending of The Giggle where Donna and 15 are convincing 14 to let go of being The Doctor for a bit. It would also have made the letting it go feel earned.

[@redbaron9420]

7:14 I think you misunderstood that scene. Here RTD criticised the Moffat's love for bittersweet endings, as Ponds, Clara and Bill are only "technically" not dead. But IMO Davies got quite the opposite problem: obsession with "happily-ever-afters" and he wasn't quite happy that 10th and Donna didn't got theirs at the end of his run.

[@markpostgate2551]

14:30 The changing of clothes thing... I just watched The Space Museum for the first time this week. They begin the episode frozen in the same costumes they were wearing in The Crusades and then a while later unfreeze but now in the costumes that they usually wear. Ian and Barbara notice and seek an explanation, but The Doctor doesn't seem to care and admonishes them for fussing about it, even though it does seem to be symptomatic of a timeslip that means they are experiencing events that haven't happened yet. The Doctor's apparent (or performative) lack of curiosity suggests to me that he doesn't want to admit that the TARDIS has done something he doesn't yet understand, and he waves it away with "all this fussing about a change of clothes. Why that is in the past now!" That needs to be sampled as a soundbite regarding this issue! Just for the comic value.

[@Domisbeast]

It could easily have been that the reward for beating the toymaker was to cure donna from the metacrisis, or even more dramatic, have it be a choice between saving Donna and banishing the toymaker, and donna makes the choice to sacrifice herself in order to do the right thing

[@Condor-gb1xp]

RTD saw Moffat undercutting tragic companion endings and took notes

[@ultimategamingchannel3800]

I agree with your closing remarks about the 60th specials. - It stunned me that the meta crisis wasn’t a 3 episode long arc too due to how the marketing made it seem - I was disappointed that there wasn’t a proper explanation for why the face of the 10th returned (along with the clothes changing) - I was also disappointed that the Toymaker didn’t have at least a 2 part episode due to how heavily he was featured in the marketing (especially with how quickly the 2nd & 3rd games between the Doctor & Toymaker were played) The specials were still enjoyable but I’d probably only go back to watch the 2nd episode again

[@maximuscallan4350]

Perhaps an alternate and more earned explanation to curing the metacrisis could be that over the past 1000+ years of the doctors life, they managed to think of a way to cure it as it was always a lingering guilt they felt. Similair to the 'same software different case' scene in the 50th, or in Spiderman NWH where tobey had a long time to think of a cure for green goblin.

[@Telekinslesis]

2 points: 1. What was the plan before Ecclestone was let go? Would the bad wolf time vortex have been hand waved away without any consequences like in the star beast? 2. I agree they should have kept the metacrisis going throughout the 3 specials. The doctor could have reabsorbed the metacrisis to save donna which could have triggered the bigeneration. They could have had Donna work out this solution using the doctor's memories. That would have been way more naratively satisfying and it would have been a nice call back to parting of the ways.

[@WiGgYof09]

They could have had the Meta Crisis looming in the background and then had it have something to do with the Doctors bigeneration. They easily could have the exact same regeneration scene where Donna holds the Doctors hand, only have Rose there instead of Mel. As the Doctor regenerates, it triggers the Meta Crisis energy to keave both their bodies and forces the Doctor to split. This solves two issues. One, why the Doctor bigenerates and Two, gets rid of the meta crais in a way that the Doctor wouldnt have known about before. The only issue is that it would mean having The Doctor Donna around during the other 2 specials which would change how they played out. However, we could have the Doctor apply a surpressor of some kind while he tries tomfind a solution. Its all made up science anyway, they could literally do anything they want.

[@hotdog1214]

14:00 Oh yes and thanks for reminding me how frustrating it was to wait through all three specials for RTD to address these elephants in the room regarding the clothes change and face etc only for it to amount to nothing. So we're stuck with his real world explanation but never get an in-universe one. Double frustrating when its staring us in the face as to an obvious option - to make the Toymaker a trilogy (where he maybe doesn't appear but his influences are felt) - that his presence disrupted the usual flow of a regeneration and that he somehow engineered it that 14 would have 10s face and arrange for him to meet Donna as part of some grander game to torment and test the Doctor - Donna would get her memories back but if the Doctor lost she would burn and die, if he wins, she lives! I'm not a writer but even I can see the obvious narrative tool to use; use the powers of the Toymaker to link the three episodes together and have it explain the unexplained. Tut tut Russell. 🙄🙄

[@MarkMichalowski]

I like your idea of the metacrisis' "return" looming over all three specials. And maybe the solution to it being that after The Toymaker is defeated,Tennant has to reabsorb the extra regeneration energy (the regen energy itself could, maybe, have something to do with The Toymaker's defeat, although I'm not convinced about that...), which actually _causes_ the bigeneration I can't be the first to suggest that, can I? If I am, I suspect it means that it's a rubbish idea - LOL...

[@HeyJay2000]

Yeah, honestly I was really really excited for RTD to come back, I thought Doctor Who was back. And it kinda is, but something is just off. It feels like someone trying to mimic the RTD1 era. Like someone has come in and said "Yeah, I can fo that" but didn't fully understand what Russell did back then to make it so great. Except it is Russell doing it. 😅😔

[@NileSWPhotography]

The one thing I really didn’t like was how careless and silly the Doctor was being about his identity. I understand he sort of HAD to but he was being real alien like before all the action: mentioning having 2 hearts, letting Donna see the sonic screwdriver and not remembering his cover up (being a friend of Neyrs)

[@andrewsmart4491]

Completely agree, except, I like the idea the meta crisis can be diluted through a bloodline, and there is a precedent. Have the meta crisis be a thing throughout the specials then have cues like have the captain of the ship in the wild blue yonder be a descendent of Donna and give her the idea of finding other ancestors. Then when the toymaker talks about the jigsaw of the Doctor's life another cue to use the TARDIS to pinpoint Donna's ancestral line and seed the meta crisis through it. The DoctorDonna side though corrupts the telepathic circuits and causes the Doctor to cross and collide with his own incarnations pitting them at different times against the Toymaker United and thrashing him at his own games. The collisions though weaken The Doctor and the nexus of his 10th and 14th incarnations stretch the blinovitch limitation to breaking point resulting in the 15th Doctor being wrenched from his future regeneration backwards to meet the fourteenth and slow him down figuratively and physically as the TARDIS careers out of control. The Tardises split and they find themselves side by side facing the toymaker. Best of 15? They day. The game? SNAP! the reality smashing nature of these two incarnations banishes the toymaker whence he came. 15 says goodbye to his past and says, hey the universe, I got it. Why not put your feet up for a bit. We deserve it. And off he goes into adventures in time and space

[@ayla6854]

I like that Donna's daughter Rose is a part of the Metacrisis solution. Actually, I kinda love that part. But, just letting go of the Metacrisis? That's was a bit too easy, for me. Don't get me wrong. I wanted Donna back, desperately. But again, it's way too easy. I would have prefered the Doctor to find another way to save Donna. Maybe 12 stealing something in Gallifrey during the Heaven Sent/Hell Bent debacle, maybe subconsciously, like with his 12th face, thinking of Donna as he does so. Or, even better, getting the pieces of the puzzle during her time trapped in the Matrix as Thirteen and taking something with her as she leaves Gallifrey, not really knowing why, just that it's somehow important. Then, Thirteen regenerates into Fourteen and with the new/old face, memories of Donna, of course never quite buried, rise to the surface and he feels the timelines revolving around her again, drawing him back to her. Of course, he's terrified of harming her by letting her remember... so he instead puzzles over the - previously avoided - Matrix memories...and notices something. (Maybe Tecteun's methods to extract the Regeneration Energy from his child self?) Suddenly full of hope, he gets to work, but resolves to not do it unless Donna actually begins to remember since it's dangerous. Then, he meets Donna again and her daughter. Immediately, he notices that Rose is different and realizes eventually that she shares the metacris with Donna and that that makes things more feasible. He decides to involve Wilf and Shaun, even Sylvia...and of course Donna then hears something she shouldn't and, realizing it's all about her and Rose, she demands to sit in on the planning session and actually gices the Doctor the final clue to pull it off. It's still dangerous and she almost dies in the end, but she survives. As does Rose. I like how you said the Metacrisis and saving Donna should have been handled (well, the part where you described how Donna gaining her memories back AND living could have been handled). ...as a side note... as much as I loved Clara and sobbed at her death, her ending up with her own Tardis and Ashildr/Me in her last seconds before death really did cheapen her end for me. I would have preferred Twelve and Clara realizing she needed to go back (maybe because her body started breaking down), hugging it out and Clara asking him to be there in the end. It would have made Clara's death even more impactful in the end, because the episode would have teased the possibility that Clara might live after all and continue travelling with the Doctor. Whereas Donna gaining her memories back and living doesn't cheapen the years of suffering after her end in Journey's End. And, Donna's end wasn't a full death, so there was always the option of what if there was a way to extract the Metacrisis from Donna and let her remember? Clara's death was a full death.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

The solution needed to happen, the form it took wasn't great but it'll do. That said, I wasn't a fan of the first and third special all that much. Felt a bit too try-hard but also kinda bland somehow? The show has and will continue to change, but from what I've seen, I'm not feeling any kind of return to RTD era feels despite him showrunning again. I think, though it pains me to say this, that all these years post Tennant liking the show less and less as it went along, its just, not for me anymore. I didn't even watch the new Doctor, I just, wasn't feeling it. I didn't even watch more than like 2 Chibnall episodes. Complaining about DW is a whole industry online and I get people have a vested interested in summoning things to say and people arguing but for me, I'm just gona move-on with my life. Nothing needs saying. Chibnall was terrible, Moffat just got worse as it went, RTD will be peak DW for me, and that'll be that. There's just... other shows, other things to care about.

[@grantmason740]

A cynic might argue the ending of The Star Beast had indeed been pre-determined as a means of belittling the male Doctor. How could *he* ever understand the marvels of Woman Magic? Never mind that the Doctor always retains the memories and experiences of previous incarnations, female ones included. Overall it was a poor resolution to a fair to good episode but not one worthy of the billing as a "60th Anniversary Special."

[@michaelpope5366]

So now that the Metacrisis energy is expelled. It is now free to roam everywhere. That means, in some future storyline, the Metacrisis energy, could turn up again, in some random way. Say one of the Doctor's foes gets a dose, or he/she meets a random person, who has these special abilities that are just unexplainable... Until Toward the end of this future storyline, the Doctor finds out it has all got to do with the 10th Doctor's Metacrisis Energy... Now that would make a fantastic story, but again though the end of which, could seem somewhat disappointing, as the story plot could just centre around this Metacrisis Energy, and it could go anywhere infect anyone, and dissipate again...until it turns up again later...who knows how, or where.

[@Redboots]

you know, I understand why it was the storyline rtd went with because I remember hearing tennant and tate asked to return, but it's just an unsatisfying and unnecessary resolution. in journey's end, donna's story is resolved in a way that was absolutely perfect for the character, and we even got an epilogue of sorts in the end of time. I feel like the dissatisfaction comes from a failure to understand that the emotional impact of donna's story comes from the tragedy that she can't remember her travels, and that if what happened simply hadn't, the story would lose its impact. however, in order to facilitate the story rtd decided to go with for the trilogy, we essentially get something that could've happened fifteen years prior which is deeply unsatisfying on a character growth level, both in terms of it happening then and now since it is poor writing, handwavy, and unsatisfying storytelling. and then we reach the actual 'letting go'. I feel like if you're going to reference events that have been shown in the show or in prominent extended media, you need to have actually engaged with the stories where those events happened. and I don't think rtd did that for thirteen, or worse, decided to ignore one of thirteen's defining character traits to essentially virtue signal at the audience, which whether or not it was done for the right reasons is simply poor writing and disrespectful towards an entire era. thirteen would not let go! it's not even that dr who was a male-presenting time lord as tenthree/fourteen, it's the assumption that because thirteen was female-presenting she would've had the emotional capacity to understand how to let it go. this isn't even getting into how, yeah, it IS incredibly lazy and a wasted opportunity to create a proper driving thread throughout the trilogy and I agree that it's basically a continuation of the moffat-era reluctance to show consequences or permanently killing off a character, so it's baffling. and I can't help but bring up how rtd used 'dr who settles down with a companion into Normal Life and lives happy domestic bliss with his own tardis' as a reward again, and I'm annoyed so much by that fact that I will make my own video discussing why it sucks for various reasons. but yeah, it's poor writing and poor storytelling that undoes an already emotionally impactful and iconic companion departure in exchange for weak, flimsy, and frankly boring and stock-standard feel-good happily ever after.

[@natvelo]

i love and respect all non binary and trans people, but the lines "binary" "non-binary" was so damn funny to me lmao

[@saeedrazavi4428]

I'm nonbinary and that line made my skin crawl

[@gamerboiiiiiii]

There was barely any respect to 'non binary people' :/ they litterally shoved a misandrist scene into a show and directed at the nost favorite doctor.

[@joyconfdpd6222]

Trans here and i found roses comment about the doctor going back to "male presenting" rude imo as the 9th doctor said he could regenerate into anything maybe a dog with 2 heads. This was a cheap shot to push a trans narrative in the show it makes trans people sound snarky and selfish towards others. The whole binary and non binary thing made me absolutely cringe

[@EmergeHolographic]

@@joyconfdpd6222 I just figured out what's so dissonant about it. As a trans person also, Rose's story arc involves feeling alien and faces people intentionally misgendering her. I can relate to Rose feeling othered for being trans, obviously, but through that empathy I'm also aware of how it feels to be treated like my sex defines who I am inside, which is what Rose did to the Doctor right at the end. That's counter to what her arc should have been. Not to mention, Rose had never met 14, who is she to assume he presents the same way he identifies? 14 should have said "Don't assume" back at her, then "My dress regenerated." I'm also just realizing as well, I loved and related to 13, in part because of the Doctor being a woman I could relate to, but also for the gender allegory of a previously male character swapping identities, effectively turning the Doctor into a naturally transitioning character. So, for Rose, a trans woman, to put 14 down as if the previous Doctor hadn't transitioned (or existed)? Yeah, it was dissonant as heck.

[@saeedrazavi4428]

@EmergeHolographic fr yeah. It felt like they wanted to write a gender essentialist line of "a man wouldn't get it" in a misguided attempt to reaffirm Rose's womanhood, but remembered they had to use inclusive language and didn't think about the line being fundamentally bad. Rose is a woman but RTD, can we not affirm one trans person by shitting on and essentializing someone else's experience of gender? That's what transmedicalists do and it's icky

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

No. You said it yourself, not everyone gets a happy ending, and that was what was GOOD about how Donna's story had ended. Well, not everyone gets a massive dramatic ending, either. Donna just letting go of the metacrisis energy is not bad because YOU wanted a big dramatic twist. The problem isnt the story, it's the reader.

[@Jenin_12]

You're right; not everyone gets a dramatic ending. But, 1.) It was built up hugely previously, and 2.) Donna is a central character; everything that happens to her should be able to matter.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

@@Jenin_12 so the 'problem' with 'the writing is' is that you - the audience - have a certain set of expectations about what will make a satisfying conclusion, and they didn't end the story with that formula ending.

[@TheHufflepuffSaint]

I hope it doesn't make me one of those fake fans but I still absolutely love the specials. It has a few eye rolling moments but I have a blast with them. Like I do with everything to do with Doctor Who. And if I get hate for this, I humbly apologize. But I do understand your reasons for being dissatisfied with it. I personally felt the same with Avengers Endgame a few months after it came out but I just don't get the same insulted feeling with this new RTD era of Doctor Who.

[@OverAnalyst]

Agree, even my husband was psyched he'd watched, happy to be able to *enjoy* eps again. He'd tapped out after a few Chibnalls (understandably). I'd slogged thru that era, first hopeful then almost hate-watching. I'd forgotten what it was like to really enjoy watching! Til now. Yes, "that line" was cringe AF; the writing wasn't perfect (including this plot point, very fair), but it didn't have to be. It never was. It's fun & interesting again. Yay!

[@Rot8erConeX]

See, I also loved these specials. My problem is purely this one plot point, because it was so unnecessary. "Giving birth while in the Metacrisis state dilutes the Metacrisis enough to make it survivable." Okay, that makes sense to me. "Oh, wait, it's still here, the clock is just ticking slower." Okay, that's a cool idea. It's kinda like the Doctor being given more regenerations in Time of the Doctor, and then being hinted at being more than normal in Hell Bent. We don't know how big the limit is, but there's still a limit (at least, there was still a limit before the Timeless Child plot fucked it up). "Nah, that's fine. We're girls, we can just let it go." WHAT? HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?!? Why didn't you just stop at either of the previous two comments?

[@OverAnalyst]

@@Rot8erConeX It's almost a week later, and *YES* I hate that they didn't go with smth sensible or even keep the "why" a timey wimey mystery.

[@chaoschris8194]

On the contrary, I want MORE 10th doctors! 3 isn't enough! But on a serious note: RTD has never been able to make good resolutions to cliffhangers. Like ever. They are always resolved in a few seconds after being hyped up for a long time. RTD has ALWAYS been terrible at ending stories. Rose was trapped in an alternate dimension.. until she wasn't. The Doctor was trapped at the end of the universe, until he wasn't. I'd also argue that this was resolved somewhat decently. Since the metacrisis was CAUSED by a type of merging of time lord and human DNA which made a new 10th doctor. So further procreation would cause it to be even more diluted. Ironically the metacrisis resolution was one of the only things that was resolved OK I thought.

[@AJStone888]

I was OK with the idea of procreation dilluting the metacrisis too. Still, they went out of their way to have the doctor say that would just slow it down but then just have them say they can "let it go"

[@chaoschris8194]

@@AJStone888 I guess thats how RTD takes care of a lot of his plot issues. It won't matter if you just let it go and forget about it xD Or it can be handwaved by the Toymaker saying he made a jigsaw of his history. Ez.

[@speeeee35]

I still think Ruby is gonna be the daughter of Rose and the original meta crisis doctor that they made a point to say only had one heart and was human… And I think it’s gonna be like either their dimension is dangerous or someone’s after her or something like that, or maybe that she NEEDS to be in a dif dimension bc her father is barely a real person… so that is why they need to put her in roses original timeline before she ever met the doctor (which she would’ve met the doctor a year later almost to the day of ruby’s being found)… It just fits too perfectly… She even looks like she could be their daughter lol They even had a walk around the tardis, the way rose did when she first saw it…

[@speeeee35]

*meaning blonde rose just to be clear 😂

[@markpostgate2551]

​@@speeeee35 😂 I was about to say! "I don't know how I am going to break this to you..." "Where's the foetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?" as Reg of the Peoples Front of Judea would say. I think Ruby will turn out to be the same species as the Doctor as RTD tries to embellish and fill in gaps of the Timeless Child back story.

[@B-MC]

Not to mention that the second episode (despite it being so focused on 14 and Donna in a bottle-ish episode, and the monsters are literally replicating them) gives Donna almost nothing of substance to do, and she's near-sidelined in the third episode. Action and consequence is an issue across the board, what used to compensate for the deus ex machines were genuinely built personal relationships. I still can't believe how much the second episode DOESNT build on how Donna and 14's new relationship only for the third ep to handwave that they're that close still and spend indeterminate amount of time together as 14 never let's the tardis go and never dies. When its all said and done, a bunch of stuff happened but there was no sacrifice or genuine difficulty.

[@hotdog1214]

I'm actually in the first camp, tragic though it was, I always liked the dramatic ending we had for Donna - maybe its my age but I prefer the emotional drama of that as opposed to a saccharine happy ending. But it was inevitable that RTD was going to undo it in the specials but it wasn't particularly satisfying in its execution. I actually thought the idea of sharing it with her offspring and therefore preventing her death was a clever idea but its all down hill from there. There are numerous suggestions in this comments section alone as to how it could have been done vastly better than 'oh well let it go' - cue a musical number from an icy Disney film 😜. At the every least, if RTD had spread it across the three specials it may have been more impactful and a way to link the 3 together more coherently. After all the hype of how dangerous it was for Donna to remember the Doctor and her adventures with him, only to spend 50 minutes completely surrounded by it and literally face to face with him, was such a let down to the stakes.

[@craiglee3048]

One thing that certainly confuses me is that Rose supposedly just knows how to “let go” of the metacrisis because of being female and all, but since Rose isn’t actually female, how is that possible? Seriously, does just looking like a woman give you “female intuition”? I’m pretty sure things don’t work like that but whatever; this just seems like RTD sacrificing story over Message.

[@mrdr0161]

Rose is female. Transphobe.

[@babybear9443]

What got me is the fact that Donna was a woman the whole time, she could have said to 10, it's ok, you don't need to wipe my mind, I'm a woman I can just 'let it go'. Or even 13, as a woman, could have realised that was the solution, flown the tardis straight to Donna and fixed it! I can't describe how angry I was when they said the whole 'Male Presenting ' thing. It was so disrespectful to, not just The Doctor, but David Tennant too. All this, men are weak and stupid, women are the ones to save the day bs is driving me mad. They need to stop the whole Girl Boss trope right now. (FYI, I am a woman).

[@robertshannon8357]

So I think having the Metacrisis slowed because part of it being passed down to Rose would have been great, then having Rose go with The Doctor and Donna while now questioning if her being Trans was due to the Metacrisis energy or truly herself would leave room for development. In Wild Blue Yonder those aliens not being able to copy Rose at all removing that doubt show that the energy doesn't change who you are and both The Doctor and Donna knowing this, but also realing as a young person Rose needed to be able to come to that herself. I know if I suddenly found out there was thus alien energy that had been manifesting itself out of my subconscious my entire life I would certainly question how much of me was actually me and feel like a storyline like that would be a good one for any young person to see. Then finally in The giggle Rose being there to see the human costs of The Doctors life, both in how dangerous it can be staying with him and dangers that find him and come looking for him would have been great. In the climax of the special when the Toymaker has hit The Doctor with the UNIT weapon, the regeneration is unstable prompting Donna and Rose to try funneling the Metacrisis energy into The Doctor causing the bigeneration, and the special could continue on as it did. I feel that could have given the three specials a more consistent overall story arc, Rose could have been a proper companion with real development, and not feel lazy at all in wrapping up Donna's story.

[@Osammar100]

This is elegant plotting and I feel like gives all three of the characters more to work with. I especially like the link between the meta-crisis and bi-generation to give a rationale for something so extraordinary happening. And giving time to Rose to address what it might mean for her - I can't help but feel that would also be a braver and better representation. And definitely, the slowed meta-crisis should have been a motivating factor and ticking clock over all three specials. I actually always find a way to look past the rushed plotting in doctor who because it's always been a bit clunky and silly and I love it for that reason, but, I'd like to see your version.

[@AH-vm8yo]

I love this. It does make sense that some of the metacrisis energy would have passed down to Donna's child. I wish that the energy that has now been slowed just slowly leaves them over the 3 specials and I love the idea of bringing Rose into the other specials and letting her charcter develop.

[@dst9997]

I’m so glad you’ve brought this up! I enjoyed all of the 60th Specials, but my biggest (and pretty damning) disappointment is that the Metacrisis, Fourteen’s familiar face, the chance encounter between the Doctor and Donna and the coincidence of the Meep meeting the Nobles are all waved away with absolutely no satisfying explanation (I can just about buy the reason given for Fourteen’s face, but the clothes?!) And, just to make things so much worse, not only did RTD write in a solution to ALL of them in the return of the Toymaker, but it was (very fairly) assumed by fans for most of 2023 that this would be the logical reason for all this coincidence and that the Metacrisis, and the risk to Donna’s life, would play some role in the machinations or defeat of the Toymaker. But no. They just… let it go? As much as I enjoyed the Specials, I will not be able to do the same.

[@Andrew-up3dr]

I think if they had it be that the doctor had been thinking about how to fix it for years but it was too dangerous to even try but now she has a kid and it's passed down it'd allow the doctor with the help of Donna and Rose enough time to fix it. I know it's flimsy but still better I think

[@joshuacroll8534]

Its funny that Davies calls out Moffats companions for having some way of surviving, when his companions have the same thing, if not worse, at least Moffats companions do die in a way where the doctor truely suffers, whereas you have Davies' companions: Rose: not only does she have no reprecussions for the Badwolf incident, but also gets saved last minute by her dad (which is fine on its own), and then later finds another way back AND gets her own doctor to love. Martha: just randomly gets over the doctor and moves on (and dont get me started on TLOTTL) And now what happened with Donna

[@FaeChangeling]

What I'm realising is that there was actually a really interesting alternative that they could have used: that being bringing the metacrisis Doctor back. They'd have to explain how he'd come back from another universe and either bring Rose back or explain why he's back without her, but this would effectively have avoided three major controversies. Instead of the Doctor regenerating back into an old face, he could have gone straight to Gatwa, the metacrisis from Donna could finally be complete by putting all the timelord energy back into the metacrisis Doctor making him a full timelord, and we wouldn't have needed to invent bigeneration to explain there being two Doctors again. Only real issue then being that it rips away Rose's happy ending to do the same thing with Donna, but maybe Rose passed away or their relationship didn't work out long term or something.

[@qwefg3]

For me it frustrated me because of how everything just kept getting worse. I fully expected Toymaker to be behind it all. Why did we get a previous Doctor Back and Dona running into him? Because Toymaker forced it to happen. Why was he doing this? Because he was still annoyed at losing not to the Doctor, but one of his companions when he had beat the doctor. (Forgot if it was an episode, drama, or book.) So he took the doctor and placed Dona there to force her to get her memories back for the rematch to habe the 'best companion' someone with time lord knowledge with the doctor for a proper round 2. Instead we got let it go, Newton learning about gravity because a bucket of chicken hit his head, and BBC contract split off Disney Doctor. Yes... The Doctor split regeneration is because the BBC promised every doctor who series to be put onto Disney Plus in their contract... And made the split regeneration to have the 'Disney Doctor' and let those episodes (and future made ones) onto Disney Plus and leave the 1-13 doctors on BBC streaming services. They were crash grab episodes. That is what annoys me more than anything else. Seriously we could habe had a three parter like how the 10th doctor fought the master in his special with that great ending... And instead... We got this. It wasn't setting to high expectations... It was listening to basic story structure that. Episode 1 the problem. Episode 2 something. Episode 3 ending and solution. Yet they screwed that formula up.

[@mrdr0161]

That's not why we have a split Doctor at all

[@richardmattocks]

The obsession with “nobody dies” that DW (Rose Tyler was the worst example of this until Donna) ruins companion exits. When you remove the stakes for someone leaving, you remove all drama and so interest. If a show has a history of bringing companions back, fans will end up always thinking “nah… they aren’t really dead, so who cares” IMHO both Rose and Donna were ruined by their returns which is really sad.

[@markpostgate2551]

You should try watching Gotham. No one ever stayed dead in Gotham! (Except Thomas and Martha Wayne of course!)

[@lezking5060]

If RTD had carried the "suspense" of the Metacrisis across the three specials, and then something that the Toymaker did (maybe inadvertently) released the energy, providing a solution to the Metacrisis problem, that would have made so much more sense... and added an interesting twist... the villain provided a solution (even if he didn't mean to). Or, maybe a better ending would be for the Doctor to have reabsorbed the energy from Donna (and Rose) at the point when he was regenerating in "The Giggle", and *THAT* caused the bi-generation situation... that would have made a whole lot of sense... the Doctor saving Donna and Rose from a slow "burnout" death, while providing a "boost" to the regeneration, allowing TWO Doctors to emerge from the process. The "Male presenting" comment just wasn't needed at all, and made no sense, given that it is now established that the Doctor had been both genders, throughout their timeline, and even passed on some sense of gender fluidity to Rose, via her sharing the Metacrisis with her mother... it was a "dig" at the Doctor, that really wasn't justified, nor necessary. In itself, the "Male presenting" line wasn't the only reason why the resolution was so poor - it certainly contributed to it, for me... but it was the whole laziness of "just let it go"... if Donna and Rose knew that was the resolution, then the Doctor would have known it too (regardless of their gender at the time). I had such hopes for the RTD2 era, and even with its flaws, it is still better than Chibbers era. But unfortunately, he does seem to have decided that making silly story decisions, just to make digs at a minority of the audience (purely to irritate them), is better than good storytelling... and that seems to be an opinion that he shared with Chibbers... and so, it has me worried for the future.... and I say this as a member of the LBGT+ community.

[@OverlyPositiveFanboy]

I love the part about Rose inheriting the Metacrisis. It provides a neat solution that doesn't squander the ending of Journeys End, because it literally wouldn’t have been possible back then.

[@VeryUsMumblings]

Modern Who companions all seem to have to go out with some kind of BANG. Classic Doctor Who would've drop off Sarah Jane at the wrong bus stop or Harry would say "No thanks, Doctor, I'm going to stay where I am." It might feel good for an exiting character to have a whopper of an episode, but you see how far they have to go to untangle the mess if they want to bring back a character. Maybe the next companion(s) should vote for getting dropped off at the bus station....

[@CJ-qp7hi]

I think the DrDonna will return as intended from the boss, paring them in the first place, hence the BiGeneration. This leads 15 to have amnesia, forced to become the timeless child

[@CJ-qp7hi]

The dr 1-11 first regeneration cycle 11 received an extended cycle 12-15 - heading towards becoming the timeless child in a trap caused by the doctor choosing to save Gallifrey in his past. This caused the cracks in time that prevented 11s death, changing time. 14 and Donna unleash the legions after traveling to the edge of the universe. This lead to 14s bi generation splitting into 14 and 15. Donna and Doctor merge to become the timeless child- giving 15 amnesia before he is forced to become the timeless child ( Timechange) The child after years of torture had their memories removed- including 1-15 memories. The child regenerated into a fugitive as the doctor's final face. The tardis saved a fugitive by dropping 13 on earth in the doctor's past. In doing so, the fugitive was able to find her past memories, from the original universe to change her past to prevent the rise of the division universe. By finding her old companion Kavanista with bel and vindor, working out that they are the doctor's parents born within the division timeline, their child is left at Ruby road to meet 15. This creates the time change, by Ruby and the 15 doctor trading places the division universe is undone however Ruby with the fob watch of memories shapes the new Gallifrey. The 15 doctor heads back to his universe before regeneration or dies correcting the change in time at Trenzalore allowing the dr Donna to take the doctors place in this universe and the audience follows the new doctor with a spinoff following the DrDonna In unit.

[@Protobooster]

I think deep down the doctor part of Donna should've working on a way to save getting her memories back and saving herself, working subconsciously with that human part, not having anything to do with her being female. Just human imagination working with the timelord part to resolve her plight. I also think that RTD was too busy platforming commentary and not focusing on a good sci-fi story. I am really sad about what's become of Doctor Who. I just can't watch it anymore . And I really loved Doctor Who.

[@PetePiper892]

I would have loved if the additional meta crisis energy contributed to the bi-generation, rather than both of them just conveniently being accepted.

[@thatoneviewer1553]

Aw man. I was waiting for Twice Upon a Time's review since it looked like he was doing the show in order. I hope he gets to it soon.

[@deathstrider111]

The toy maker could have definitely had a solution to the meta crisis as he was shown to have abilities and powers which the doctor couldn't comprehend. Maybe instead of splitting the tardis the doctors prize was his friends life which was growing ever closer during the trilogy of specials

[@claudius3359]

I agree 100% with you.Even if we don't talk from the 'political aspect',the resolve was anti-climactic and disappoints people who followed the lore since 10th's era.

[@ITS-ME-NARDIE]

14:42 Eccleston only decided to leave the show so soon because his relationship with the production broke down while filming the opening episodes. So the original script of Parting of the Ways would have ended with the Doctor expelling the energy and going on more adventures like nothing happened.

[@fearfulcat]

I agree. Loved Donna Noble. Her original ending was tragic. Wanted her back and I liked most of the Star Beast. Liked that they included Rose in the explanation - but it didnt make any sense. Rose should've been included as part of the resolution throughout the rest of the trilogy. Even if they separated the three of them, Rose should've been having her own sidequest with her newfound confidence and metacrisis intelligence on Earth. Then when they all came back together, Rose should've been important to the resolution in the third part of the trilogy. And Rose Temple-Noble would make a helluva companion for Ncuti's doctor. I HATED the Toymaker episode. Every part of it. And I'm a fan of Neil Patrick Harris, but this performance and episode was aweful.

[@markpostgate2551]

I have an armchair psychologist theory about RTD that he has internalised a lot of negative messaging about nerds and part of that is the nerd-shaming slogans of "get a life" and "it's not real you know" and even "oh you can accept crazy thing A but not crazy thing B?!?"; in Doctor Who's case it will be "oh you can accept that a police box can be bigger on the inside than the outside and travel in time and space but you can't accept that everyone speaks English in feudal Japan?!?" and these are all anti-intellectual put downs used to deter, via shaming, sense making questions about the narratival structure of the fiction. And if anyone absolutely should be asking sense making questions about the fiction it should be the bl00dy writer!!! That is a major part of a writer's job! I know the telepathic circuits of the TARDIS do not get mentioned until Masque of Mandragora, but I bet Louis Marks had been thinking about that since he first saw Marco Polo and must have asked himself "how come they all speak English then?" Plot wrinkles only get ironed out because someone is prepared to ask "that doesn't make much sense; how can that be?" But if you absorb the social message that asking questions is "sad" and that people who aren't bothered are more cool then there is no process of reflective practice and refining of plot. Great storytellers, by that definition, are not "cool".

[@Sigurd-r5]

It all kind of makes sense in a vague way and now it's over so whatever it's outta the way and we're onto the new Doctor and stuff! Great days! Hopefully.

[@unorthodoxbox]

RTD even during his first era is just not good at resolutions. He does great character work, great set ups but in most cases just has the major threats waved away which to me ruins the presence of villains and in this case Donna’s arc. This is one of my biggest reasons for stepping away from his new era after The Star Beast and Wild Blue Yonder, waiting for reviews because I am genuinely not in the mood for more deus ex machinas. My own What If for these specials is it would’ve been a serialised story. The Toymaker early on toying with the Doctor and Donna. Donna being a major casualty because A) The Doctor’s Guilt and B) Donna and her family at this point are innocent bystanders caught in something that only Silvia and Wilf understand so in my mind Silvia and Rose become temporary companions. Imagine that dynamic. Silvia stepping up to protect her daughter and granddaughter and Rose getting pulled in because of her curiosity.

[@elphive42]

I do wonder if they had to significantly reconfigure the story of the three specials on short notice with Bernard Cribbins’s passing. If so, that could explain why a lot of The Star Beast doesn’t quite feel like it works together.

[@crazyt1483]

Just thought of this but I feel a way of saving the day could be in the giggle the doctor gets killed mid generation then we see a mirror of Donna’s death fake out. Maybe rose comes over to console their mum. Suddenly they both start glowing like they are going to regenerate then the time lord energy leaves them and enters the doctor. He comes back then Donna tells him off for scarring her like that. Then of course we see the action scene and all that then possibly a call back to 10 in the Christmas invasion with the post regeneration pass out with a unfocused background then after they drop camera refocuses and we see Micky with a look of not again

[@daver9819]

If you're going to wrap it up quickly and complete the full circle without the awful 'let it go' plot, Donna , in saving the Doctor could have lost a hand... see where I'm going already... and when Rose is revealed to have shared the Metacrisis energy and Donna is alive they could put the Metacrisis energy into the chopped off hand. So Donna survives, memories intact and a hand in a jar... cue Big Finish and fan fiction!

[@MortexBerri]

My least favorite of the specials

[@bootstrapparadox8656]

You could possibly even see RTD’s writing flaws in Wild Blue Yonder (the best episode of the trilogy, in my opinion). When the Not-Doctor is faster to stop the robot, the real Doctor just exclaims that the Not-Doctor is going to fail and the Tardis just materializes for our heroes to escape.

[@Saidriak]

I absolutely love wild blue yonder, but I just try not to think about the previous episode lol

[@Gamelover254]

Does anyone else find it weird that there are now two Roses living with two David Tennant Doctor’s?

[@marionbaggins]

Yes, never won't be.

[@glitchyfox8706]

I stand by my statement that Donna and her having a child should have been a better solution to the meta crisis. Like have Donna and her child do some science stuff to adjust their DNA to give Donna enought human DNA back to not die and maby give her child most of the timelord DNA. Or the other way around where Donna becomes full time lord and her child becomes full human with the worry being that the timelord brain could have killed her child so she sacrificed herself to save her child while thinking that going full time lord would kill her but it stabilised her

[@speeddemon5339]

A solution to this could have been that a new big bad stole the meta crisis from Donna, in order to become smart enough to challenge the Doctor, and to attempt to steal all of the Doctor’s regenerations. If he succeeded the villain wouldn’t face any ill effects.

[@bodkimalone]

I would have rewritten it as rose and donna still dying and the game with the toymaker and bi generation meant 1. 10 wishes donna not to die/to have them no longer have the time lord stuff in their heads 2.ncuti banishes the toymaker and 3.since rose and donna are doctor donna during the game timey wimey rules allow for them being there at the time to create second tardis shenannigans and the last wish from rose/donna (since both have metacrisis energy) can be something simple like getting the lottery money back (probably more a donna thing) idk ik this seems like a poor hindsight thing that seems just as if not more convoluted and alternatively since it’s about letting go,killing off donna and maybe rose or we can leave the metacrisis out of her,either way rewriting it so donna dies,family is upset and grieves,ncuti gives his speech,that scene at the table instead of being jolly is very tense and ends on being all about acceptance,grief and how life goes on..idk this is a very spur of the moment comment which is made only 5 mins into the video so yeah.

[@scantopup2226]

I would like Donna and rose to find a way to share the energy with the rest of her family, if Rose slowed the meta-crisis why can’t she find a way to transfer it