Is This What Doctor Who Needed? | The Star Beast Review and Analysis

[@HarboWholmes]

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[@TempoLOOKING]

No your woke like this special.

[@klevasole1763]

So you say the boy/girl loves his/her family yet decided to take the mother's last name instead of taking the father's last name who the mother was legally married to when the child was born. What manner of love is that? You talk about them dead naming yet they can give people titles like sis and there's s no problem with that. I've noticed that mostly white men hate this show now, but you bought into the hype that what's going on in this era to ruin and turn this world upside down is actually a good thing. Imagine how quickly we'd go extinct as a species if all this mess was "natural"!!!

[@mattthesilent777RED]

The Woke Message is the thing ruining Doctor Who ever since Christmas Day 2017

[@KevinWhite-zb5os]

Ina word? NO!

[@FTZPLTC]

Something I really liked in this episode was Donna just subtly calling out the fact that Sylvia was shitty to her - not antagonistically, but just reminding her not to be what she used to be. It felt like just a little snippet of the past decade that they've spent growing closer.

[@Look_Over_There]

Yeah when she hesitates when donna says about having an amazing daughteryou can tell theres some guilt. I think journeys end made Sylvia realise how great her daughter is and how close she came to losing her. I also think Wilf gave his daughter some harsh home truths and put his foot down after seeing how much donna had grown, also becoming a grandparent etc. Donna wasn't actually a very nice person before she met the doctor so her being 'reset' in journeys end was so tragic. I like to think that having a more supportive mum, husband and kid (along with the subconscious doctordonna) helped her regain some of that growth even without her memories.

[@georgelinford5576]

Honestly maybe my favourite moment

[@thedoctorwho73]

And was this celebrating 60 years of doctor who? Nope

[@FTZPLTC]

@@thedoctorwho73 - I... do not understand your point. Were you upset that the episode wasn't a clip show?

[@Jacob004]

Regarding the new Tardis design, I have a strong feeling that coming into Ncuti Gatwa’s era, it’s gonna go a similar route to the Peter Capaldi Tardis design where there’s a lot more stuff added to it that makes it look more homely. I actually adore how large it feels, but I agree that it definitely could use a bit more stuff. I think that we might get that addressed though

[@ronniecorbett6306]

All Ramps for the handicapped?

[@Lia-zw1ls7tz7o]

Oh yes! I get that feeling as well that Fifteen will slightly redecorate it to make it feel more homely. This TARDIS interior comes closest to how I always wanted it: huge, multilevel, barrier-free and brighter. It feels like a modern retro update, similar to how the Enterprise was redesigned in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds using the classic 60s design but updating it slightly to make it seem sci-fi to modern eyes while still keeping the 60s architecture and furniture.

[@THOMAS_VANN]

yeqh the tardis design has different color lights with 14 picking blue i think ncuti gonna get the same tardis with a different color

[@Lia-zw1ls7tz7o]

@@THOMAS_VANN some rumors suggest purple which I would love because it’s my favorite color

[@joringedamke5597]

I don't get the appeal. Why does 'futuristic' have to mean white and featureless? Even the NX-01 had more character than this.

[@HellfireComms]

I would say yes...mostly. It's weird, the representation stuff was handled better in the first half of the episode than the second. It felt like actual people talking about it, how they can struggle to keep up and so on. When the Doctor arrives at the house it becomes somewhat of a parody. Rose REALLY didn't need to ask the Doctor to essentially check his privilege. It being tied into the climax for Donna's story made me scratch my head a bit too (not the fact that the metacrisis passed down partially to Donna's child, that works for me) but the binary/non-binary stuff is a bit hard to understand. But that's the clunky stuff that brought the episode down for me. The rest of it? The cinematography, music, acting that felt like they'd hired ACTUAL HUMANS instead of the mannequins from Chibnall's era and a pretty basic, but effective monster of the week story? That's classic RTD Doctor Who. I want more of that and we're hopefully gonna get it. I'm very excited for this week's episode, especially since it's supposed to be a spooky one.

[@tbicks2822]

Yeah i'm still a little confused by the binary non-binary thing. I thought she survived because she passed down some of the energy to Rose, so there's not enough left to kill her. Then the binary non-binary passage happened and i'm not entirely sure what that meant.

[@dylanlewis5113]

It also kind of implies that the meta crisis is what made Rose non binary. Essentially a mutation caused it, which seems to go against the general idea of non binary being based off of feelings (I think, I'll admit I have trouble comprehending that whole thing) The meta crisis affected Donna on a genetic level, that's how it was able to be passed on to her child. So, if the meta crisis energy was a part of Rose's genetic makeup, how could she let it go?

[@neilgodwin6531]

As a man, it felt patronising, condescending and downright insulting in parts. Sexist, in fact. As if feminists did not want equality but superiority

[@tbicks2822]

@@neilgodwin6531 lolwut

[@HellfireComms]

@@neilgodwin6531 Also as man, I chose to roll my eyes at cringe dialogue and move on.

[@Pooter-it4yg]

The line about male presenting timelords was clearly meant to characterise them as power loving purely on the basis of their gender. A far better line would have been "you can't understand because you can't afford the luxury of an ordinary life".

[@IreneWY]

Or "you can't understand because I you're not human". No one would've batted an eye. 🤷‍♀️

[@sevenseasofwhy1595]

Ooh, yeah, that line change is a really good suggestion.

[@erubin100]

If that's what it "clearly meant," they would not have made it so blatant by using the word "male." Stop coping.

[@keit99]

Or it could have been 'You wouldn' t understand you've always had trouble simply letting go.' (making it more about the doctor (or tennant' s doctor)

[@thatokperson]

​@@erubin100I mean they're right tho it's a needlessly mean line and their line is better

[@aeloswindrunner]

For me the big question is if it's so easy to just let go, why didn't Donna just let go before? And I think there's an easy answer that would have been a nore satisfying conclusion. At the end of series 4, she had nothing to come back to on earth. Her mother was at best unpleasant, and her granddad was spurring her on to travel with the doctor. She couldn't let go because she wanted that life too much. At this point, she has a loving husband and a daughter who she would burn the world down for. That's a hell of a reason to let go of the power and would be far more narratively satisfying. As it stands it just feels like a cheap way out of one of the most devastatingly impactful endings for a character

[@KilamajaroKen]

Because she didn't have a child. That was part if how she was able.

[@rakshithanand8262]

I was thinking that if the meta-crisis could be shared along familial lines to make the degradation longer than a human lifespan, the whole family would bear it together, Guardians of the Galaxy style. Rose gives it to her dad, Donna gives it to her mom, and they are planning to share with Wilf at the end. But no, they just make it a 'oh you're male-presenting, so you're an idiot'. What, does that mean a trans man couldn't let power go? Isn't that what the doctor effectively is right now? Ugh, that one line ruins everything the show was doing to re-establish the immersiveness of the world AND undermines their own attempt at a progressive tone.

[@aeloswindrunner]

@@KilamajaroKen there was a line about the shared burden only delaying things, not stopping the metacrisis killing them outright

[@magdalenerose924]

She has a son. Not a daughter. It’s really damn offensive for people to call a man ‘daughter’, ‘she’ & ‘her’. These words are reserved for WOMEN.

[@magdalenerose924]

She has a son. Not a daughter. It’s really damn offensive for people to call a man ‘daughter’, ‘she’ & ‘her’. These words are reserved for WOMEN.

[@keech100]

I 100% agree with the "pronoun Scene" I said to my partner I felt there are so many ways that they could have made that less weird it just felt like they had an idea but didnt write it in very well.

[@ismellmandude6401]

It's meant to be a struggle session, really. RTD wants you to lower yourself and accept that such a stupid question should even be asked, and that you need to accept the conclusions behind it.

[@vullord666]

That honestly goes for much of this special. It felt like RTD (or someone) was forcing himself to write "woke" dialogue as if all that didn't do was cringe actual progressives and piss off Twitter crowds. It made so much of the special just feel forced and weird unnecessarily.

[@hblancoramos6873]

​@@vullord666If you thinking RTD forced himself to be woke, you don't know RTD. And this is in a positive way. If you feeling like this you are maybe the one some steps behind in social commentary (not trying to be rude). Could be better delivered maybe, as a non binary myself I think the "binary, non binary, binary" thing was kind of "ehm", but intention is what matters here. RTD is a white able body cis man trying his genuine best to include every side of exclusion, from gender to race to disability. So we can accept a not 100% nailed thing. For example, thanks to the pronouns scene, I, watching the spanish dub, was able to listen the Doctor talking the gender neutral spanish pronoun. The magical thing here, is that is not an oficially recognized thing in spain. But they did care about progression enough to not care about that. And that is the type of moments Doctor Who should bring to people.

[@Kurotama11]

I think one of the simplest ways to fix it would have been 1.) make it not be *the doctor* who needs the whole speech, cause it’s out of character for them to assume another characters pronouns (the Doctor is usually the one lecturing companions on such things, especially considering Timelord regeneration) 2.) have the line not directly be “my pronouns are x, blah blah blah” a simple “I go by, the meep” does the same thing without sounding preachy and too much like something out of a 2012 sjw compilation

[@RogerS1978]

Like the doctor looking at him like an idiot, saying "get some perspective" and ignoring him?

[@mwd5001]

Really liked 14 as a character but really didn't like the lectures he recieved. The whole "male presenting Time Lord" thing wasn't good for decent young guys that are growing up, especially when Donna's granddad and husband have both been seen to be very supporting and loving men. Doctor Who has always respected everyone, its why I love it but to me, it was a poor ending and quite stupid really.

[@sanmerci]

The only part that I felt went too far was the "male-presenting" bit. The rest makes sense within the context of a character who bounces back and forth through time. I mean, the doctor absolutely might have forgotten what time period he was in and not realized that 'pronouns' was a topic of debate, so that really didn't bother me at all. Claiming that he couldn't understand the concept of "just letting go" because he was "male-presenting," though, felt forced. I mean... is the implication that a "female-presenting" doctor could have understood it? If so, doesn't the fact that the Doctor's last incarnation literally was female have any sway? It just felt forced and unnecessary. I think there were better ways it could have been written... but nobody contacted me for my opinion and expertise.

[@Jiub_SN]

@@sanmercinah the pronouns thing was really out of place, it also portrays rose as a stereotypical transgender teen. Like her traits were that she was transgender, bad at acting, and good at making stuffed animals. That's not a character, that's a list of facts about a character

[@biggielittle1384]

That line really rubbed me the wrong way too, but in hindsight, I don’t think RTD intended it to come across that way. It was a really dumb line that didn’t need to be written into the script, but I don’t think RTD is a sexist who would write that kind of thing maliciously. But otherwise, I think the episode was a fun reintroduction to Doctor Who. Not the greatest, by any means, but still really good.

[@MegaLokopo]

Sadly that is what we get when people support these actors getting jobs because they are female or transgender or black or a combination of the three. It would be far better for everyone if they picked good actors first, and if they happen to be female no one would complain. Maggie Smith would be a fantastic doctor.

[@johnpolishimpossible2say191]

Same. Liked every other part of the episode. It's a joke I may have laughed at 5 years ago but feels like too much these days

[@jadamaynard-chung3046]

9:59 as a disabled person, I really appreciated the weapons in the wheelchair. Our walking aids (wheelchairs, canes, etc) are supposed to aid us, and as an agent of Unit, dealing with aliens, she would need to have weapons on hand just in case. Them being in her wheelchair is good because their on hand in a place where she knows do use them. Like having a gun in your holster. She can’t jus carry weapons around, so having them in her wheelchair was a very good adaptation for a disabled person imo❤️

[@SirJayington3rd]

Is your mind as Retarded as your Legs?

[@Acknowledgerofdoctorwho]

yea, honestly it does make sense for her to have those sorts of weapons in her wheelchair.

[@airshiphead]

I thought everything was so well handled overall. ...a bit hamfisted at the end for sure, but doesn't overshadow the episode itself

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Yeah, people are really making way too much of a big deal out of it... I'm just viewing it as the closest thing to a Christmas special outside of December, I very much enjoyed it and found it VERY funny but I feel it won't be my favourite of the three Tennant specials by the end of the year

[@jimmythegod3]

Facts, people are calling the episode the worst doctor who episode ever because of one unnatural moment in a very solid episode.

[@algaenthusiast]

Yeah there's a whole outrage industry online about how everything's woke and bad, so naturally they ate any moments in this episode they could get offended by up. I've just decided to block all those channels so I don't have to think of them and can engage with reasonable discussion of my favourite media. Way better online experience in general

[@itsalwaysoniontime]

The episode was actually really fun, I think it’s because the ending really doesn’t make much sense and is at the expense of males. This would definitely annoy people because the ending was very odd.

[@quindecim7507]

Ironic how a bunch of fragile men prove the point of the line. Being unable to let go of anything.

[@RicPendragon]

the biggest issue I had with Rose, is the simple fact, she doesn't look like she's 14-15 years old, she looks like she's 18-19...which was her age while filming. But it's not enough to ruin it for me, I've grown up watching Grease and the like. Also River flushed her regeneration energy into 11, 10 flushed his energy into his Meta-Crisis hand, and 12 even did a fake flush during the monks, so at least it wasn't a COMPLETE ass pull. But I do agree it was a little clunky in delivery

[@samuelbarber6177]

Eh, she’s about as convincing as Tom Holland, in my opinion

[@BEE-oz7yd]

Yeah... :/ older actors being cast in younger roles (because those are simply more experienced and easier to deal with,) has been a practice for forever now! No real point in complaining about it, even though I can definitely see where you're coming from!

[@markpostgate2551]

How old are the Stranger Things kids now? Significantly older than their characters I should think.

[@RicPendragon]

I think Tom Holland is a good comparison, and yes, I agree it doesn't distract enough to take you out of the immersion, and God...I'm way behind on Stranger Things, I'm scared to see how old they're looking now 🤣

[@Smoking2muchcrack]

He pronounces he /him dude/guy

[@amosbirb2616]

3:50 what makes Donna's comment about the suit even funnier to me is David Tennant WAS around 35 during his time as the 10th Doctor

[@adipauleng]

The fact that The Meep looked so good and was a practical suit that would not have been cheap suggests we haven't seen the last of Beep.

[@duvall5jd]

Obviously, lol, Beep will be back probably with the Toymaker being the Boss. Beep was talking about.

[@tjet34]

3/4 of the people in my house want a Beep the Meep plush that shows teeth when you squeeze it, and only one of those three is a child, so I think the episode was overall a success. Good starter episode for folks new to the show, too, even if the ending is a bit messy.

[@thetommygunshow]

And the funny thing is, David coming back is technically canon. Remember when Tom Baker told Matt Smith he'd end up revisiting a few faces at the end of the 50th anniversary special?

[@jiographic]

i actually liked the sonic screwdriver making force fields, and the awkwardness of it because it made me think of how it takes a minute to put something together (like the war doctor joking about assembling a cabinet haha) but idk i liked it because it felt like a sci fi moment but with a practical use.

[@KatieKat223]

The issue is mostly feature creep, that said if they use it interestingly... it could be good! We'll see.

[@zachh6868]

I actually did like the reveal at the end because the clues were in our face the whole time. Like after I realized Rose was trans, one of my first thoughts was that it was odd she picked her name. I was thinking that meant Donna made up bedtime stories that happened to be real memories, but when it all clicked, the stuffed animals THAT WE SAW looked like the monsters The Doctor knew the whole time, the SHED! I saw the shed and thought it was odd at first, but didn't connect the dots. I just love that bit. I had the pieces rattling around in my head, but I didn't connect the dots until BAM and it was so fun and exciting. That's one of the things very few shows even try to attempt, let alone excel at, so that's definitely one of my favorite parts of Doctor Who with the whole "It was in front of me the whole time" bit

[@spyderhobit]

Does anyone else want them to bring back the upright coat hanger that used to always be in the console room? (up until it’s gone for 11s second console room) It was the one constant in the console room from the very beginning of the show, all the way up to 11s second console room (the first time it’s not there)

[@karachter]

i don't see how 14 being similar to 10 is a bad thing, if he wasn't the episodes would've been heavily soured again, i saw this as tennant's doctor being back in the role again (for the most part), he's my childhood doctor and his face without his personality would just feel hollow

[@vapx0075]

I thought the changes were enough, because more and he's moving away from being the actual Doctor. The through line, if you like.

[@cisalzlman]

On Donna knowing that The Doctor regenerated I think the metacrisis gives her a link to The Doctor's memories

[@nathanbarrett4402]

Isn't it also a fact that Time Lords can recognise each other through regneration, despite the physical change? If so then Doctor Donna would def be able to see how much older and different the 14th is.

[@YouTubecanbitemyhairybanger]

Don't make excuses for their shitty writing

[@Alovon]

To say on the contrary about the Sonic. I do think the "Sonic Shield" feature isn't that overpowered? It exhibits it's use in specific situations. It's not like The Doctor can immediately put up a wall to block a extermination beam, it takes forever to safely setup, and seemingly they aren't that strong as the barriers could break from stun bolts and human firearms (Which human firearms are likely the thing that'd get dampened the most by a Sonic-Barrier). So for the circumstance it was used in, it makes sense and establishes why the feature would be useful in some scenarios but not others. Primarily because the Wrath and the Possessed UNIT Soldiers were too hyper focused on each other to think about going in a different direction to find The Meep (Allowing the Doctor to setup the path to the stairs) And on a note on the 14th Doctor, I do think the idea is "This is 10...but with all the events of 11 through 13 to add character development" which is reflected with how much more vulnerable and openly emotional he is to his friends and whatnot as 10 would know personally how that hurt him, and then his other incarnations and would want to prevent the same mistakes with the same mind to think through it (Also may be a bit of self-balance wanting to make up for how closed off 13 was ironically)

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

I agree completely, although I will say the sonic just being able to teleport whole people is a bit over powered, though the doctor is able to pull objects out of thin Air.

[@THOMAS_VANN]

@@TiredMoonRabbitno it doesnt teleport people it just hijacks their telepott to change rheir destination

[@Connie_cpu]

@@THOMAS_VANN Exactly, the people already had personal teleporters on them, he just used the sonic to set the destination and activate them. A classic doctor thing to do XD

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

@@THOMAS_VANN oh then that's a lot more reasonable.

[@Shadow64]

It did that teleport thing all the time in RTD1. 9th doctor intercepted Kassandra’s teleport in 1x2 and the slitheen’s teleport in 1x11

[@bobdobalina2931]

The episode had to establish (and re-establish) a lot of things and so it felt a bit crammed and a bit rushed but that means the two subsequent specials will be able to focus much more on the plot and the main characters dealing with the situations they find themselves in. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Also, nice to see a review that wasn't bigoted and misogynistic.

[@vapx0075]

I am also grateful. There should be room for people to be realistic and analytical and logical about how a thing does and doesn't work without attracting trolls down in the comments.

[@davidrohde2636]

Rose's inherited more than just the metacrisis, it included the memories as that's how she created the toy's in all the images of the aliens the doctor and Donna met.

[@RicPendragon]

Also, I'm calling it now, instead of saying "I don't want to go" when he has to regenerate, he'll have finally grown enough and his last words will be "I'm ready to let go"

[@johnhiggen2854]

My heart will not be ready

[@sanmerci]

I love this idea. The Doctor is never ready to let go, but, as this is a second run, I love the idea that he realizes that he needs to let go and it's time for him.

[@TheBalensZ]

Capaldis last line was "Doctor... I let you go"...

[@film79]

I think he'll say "I'm cumming!"

[@rykavproductions666]

Or "I actually want to go now"

[@AbyssalRook]

I do feel like there were so many other ways to handle the 'letting it go' scene that would have made it more narratively satisfying. They could have highlighted the difference between Donna back then and Donna now, where she couldn't let it go before because she so desperately wanted to BE like The Doctor. But now she's older, and she has a family, and a better relationship with her mother, and she's CAPABLE of letting go that kind of addictive power. And it could have tied into Rose's identity, giving them perspective on what it means to be just who you are and how to let go of harmful outside influences that are trying to force you to be something you're not. Heck taking in the rest of the specials, that would have made the parallel for the Doctor's journey that much stronger, since one element of it is that he needs to stop being THE Doctor, as in the title, for a little while, because doing so is actively hurting him in more ways than one and it's BEEN hurting them basically since the 2005 series started. I get trying to make a sideways jab at toxic masculinity, which...I...THINK? is what they were going for? But I think it fell flat. It might have worked, like...20-30 years ago when 'men and women are different!' jokes were more relevant.

[@patchodraws9200]

i frankly think the best thing i can say about this special is that the parts that had me the most invested were the human interactions and drama rather than the big flashy sci-fi stuff. sure, that might sound odd given that this is a sci-fi show, but so much of chibnall and even moffat's eras felt so clinical and devoid of actual human vulnerability and connection that it was SUCH a breath of fresh air to have characters who feel, talk, move, and think like real people who all have their own struggles in life. if the show needs to find its footing again with the sci-fi elements, i'm all for it, because i have a solid basis now to be invested in. (also, i feel like the only person who wanted the meep to stay the same through the episode even after the reveal. a horrifically murderous war criminal who continues to act like the teeniest little fella would've have made their true identity even more jarring)

[@BEE-oz7yd]

Actually that idea with the meep sounds fucking hilarious!😂😂 But I understand why they wanted its character to stay consistent with the comics!

[@markpostgate2551]

In the comic the Meeps are depicted as remaining childishly playful and murderous at the same time, with having childlike rhymes at their executions of dissidents - it is both humorous and chilling simultaneously. The special is massively trimmed down and simplified from the original plot.

[@dutchman8887]

moffat era had loads of vulnerability and connection. not sure what you mean. more so than before. 11 and amy have loads of scenes of close connection and bonding. 12 and clara have a lot of open heart to hearts unlike 10 in rtd1 who was quite closed off. 13 i see your point but nonsense to say it was the same with moffat era.

[@vapx0075]

No, i'm with you, I was actually hoping for that until I saw the teeth. I forgot about that moment.

[@patchodraws9200]

@@dutchman8887 you're definitely right in that moffat's seasons had those scenes, but to me at least they always felt exactly like that: scenes, written to be emotional or vulnerable. maybe it had to do more with the directing than the writing, but the main difference for me is that with RTD's seasons and this first special, it didn't feel like scenes playing out so much as just organic conversations between people with legit chemistry. i know a lot of people liked 12 and clara's dynamic, and i know there'll also be people who say that it's a show and it's meant to have scenes or something like that, but to me, what makes RTD DW work is how grounded and down to earth the interactions feel, something that i felt - even with moments written for the characters to be vulnerable - was missing.

[@ryanratchford2530]

Also, Rose said "male presenting" not just male. So it's not a claim that the Doctor's male brain chemistry is making him incapable of understanding (which would also be weird and stupid) but literally the mere fact that a gender fluid time lord can't understand some things when male presenting (weirder and stupider). Surely people who use the term "male-presenting" rather than just "male" know that the differences in biological sex are so minor that most of the attributed differences between genders are more socially constructed. So then why use the term (which highlights the similarities between sexes) in a sentence that claims men and trans-men and gender fluid people when they present male can't wrap their heads around things women and trans-women and non-binary people can. Especially since it undermines the previous point they were making about the Doctor being both and neither genders and so much more. But also, when he's male presenting he's stupider? What? Also the non-binary moment was weird since Rose seems to identify as a transwoman--with she/her pronouns, name, and presentation. Weird. Couldn't they have just done the same thing Journey's End said where its their human nature combined with the timelord nature that makes them able to come up with ideas the Doctor couldn't? Shame. Only outright bad thing in the episode.

[@markpostgate2551]

I can't get past the idea that it is strategic. They wanted an angry response so they could say "look at these angry people, angry over nothing. Doesn't that show how much more work we have to do?!?" as if fearing absence of a backlash.

[@YourBeingParanoid]

Thank you for saving me the time to type that whole comments out again for the Nth time. RTD and the people working on the show clearly don't understand the terminology they're using. Did they hire the people from She-Hulk again?

[@YourBeingParanoid]

That's not correct - we're talking about male-presenting not catching deer@@leonlaird_

[@plasmktan]

@@leonlaird_ I don't know about that personally I think it's 80% social 20% biological but there is no way of knowing for sure + there is still more diffeence within men and women as a group psychologically than between. + we don't know how gender forms, whetehr it was created or it was natural for humans. So who knows how any of this works tbh. You sound very sure about this stuff, do you have a source?

[@ismellmandude6401]

​@@markpostgate2551I feel like a lot of leftist show-writers do the same thing; Inviting controversy so that they can blame "bigots" for their show failing to ignore that those topics are just unpopular.

[@thomassweeney3674]

Yeah the line with "male presenting time lord" just felt so mean spirited to me. However, when I watched it with my sister, we both missed that line because we were more hung up on the lazy resolution to the meta crisis and trying to figure out how that makes sense with what had been established

[@mjudec]

Welcome back RTD, 85% of the episode is great then the ending is utterly forced, rushed and I'll conceived.

[@not-that-Chris]

it doesn't seem like any commentators have remarked upon the fact that at least at the end of the Disney Plus broadcast of the star beast the credits for overdubs in multiple languages state that The Doctor is the TENTH Doctor

[@FrayRS]

The "sharing" aspect of the metacrisis was fine, but what it should have done was put it on a delayed fuse for Donna, not got rid of it entirely. Allowing her 24-48 hours vs. just killing her straight away. This would have allowed her to complete the 3 episodes, with a sense of hope within the Doctor the whole time that he could still save her, whilst having the constant threat of her impending death hanging over the trilogy. Then, she definitely should have died at the end of The Giggle. Watching her death slowly but surely creep up on her and the Doctor with nothing that he can do about it, despite having the time to try, would have made for an incredible, yet dark, narrative to send Donna off as a character.

[@zachh6868]

It's an interesting episode because it was kind of just peak Doctor Who, taking in both the positives and the negatives. Doctor Who isn't typically a show that tends to stick the landings at the end, but it does check so many boxes and so many unique boxes at that

[@vapx0075]

Yeah, I hate it when people toss out the term 'formulaic' like it's a derogatory. Like, dude, you want to go [offroad] in those [tyres]? Because how long before you start complaining that you're lost without a [map] and DNF? It drives me as an INFJ; the biggest game of creating stuff is knocking it down into recognisable shapes for the benefit of an audience. If you recognise what I did there, that's a GOOD thing, fam! It means I did my job, i got my story across to you, you weren't lost in the weeds! Communication!

[@DarthMeteos]

donna knows the doctor has regenerated because time lords can see each other in a way we can't understand there have been a few times where the doctor has run into time lords and known who they were immediately because something intrinsic to their overall 'self' is visible to time lords

[@Tulf42]

What I hated about Donna and Rose saying the Doctor has no understanding of letting go because he's a man again, is that the Doctor and many other iconic characters have managed to let go of addictive God-like powers that make them good role models regardless of gender, my examples being: The Ninth Doctor was able to let go of the time vortex energy after Rose struggled with it as the Bad Wolf in Parting of the Ways. Spider-Man was able to let go of the addictive powers of the iconic alien symbiote suit. Sonic the Hedgehog is able to let go of the power of the chaos emeralds when he has finished saving the day as Super Sonic, which is one of the central themes of the Sonic franchise. I know these three examples are male characters but these are the main three characters I know from the top of my head (I haven't watched every piece of media from every franchise that currently exists. I'm only one person.) so please feel free to educate me about other characters that have been able to let go of incredible powers, whether they are male, female, gender-fluent, non-binary or any other variations there upon, showing that anyone can be special.

[@Sparx632]

Wasn’t sure how to feel about it on my first viewing and I was taken aback by the ending, but watching it over again I actually really liked this one. Though, it does still feel really weird to see Tennant and Tate again after all these years, and it makes me feel like there’s something off about their performances, even though they do a great job for most of the episode.

[@SorchaSublime]

The "thing that is off" is mostly just that they're not playing the same characters as 15 years ago because... well it was 15 years ago. The doctor has lived thousands of years since Tennant last played him and Donna has raised a daughter and enjoyed a loving relationship through which she gained enough self respect to stand up to her mum in a way she never quite did back in the days. Its different because it has to be.

[@Sparx632]

@@SorchaSublime yes I do think that’s what it is, I just need to get my brain to stop treating them as if no time has gone by.

[@the_old_crimge74]

On the matter of the tardis room, apparently the 15th doctor is going to put things like a juke box in it, so if they fill it out like 12 did with 11's tardis i would like it more

[@dylanburton4955]

With everything been so happy at the end I feel like that isn’t the end and everything hasn’t just been resolved, in doctor who fashion there’s always some downside to it

[@sanmerci]

I hate that you're probably right...

[@dylanburton4955]

@@sanmerci It will probably come back to bite them in the ass in the third special, especially with RTD hinting at a heartbreaking outcome

[@vapx0075]

ah, yes, that old 'if you want a happy ending, please exit the ride three minutes early as the TBC hook ending is about to begin'. A real classic 'start you reading the next chapter' trick.

[@tomfoss3533]

About the new doctor being very similar to tenants last one, I think that is actually quite important. Towards the end of s4 the doctor says something along the lines of, 'when they regenerate its like a new person walks away and the old ones left behind' Since Donna's story is very 'destiny' oriented I think him being the doctor Donna knew was almost fate. In the sense that something keeps pulling them together

[@matthewchurchyard8552]

I'd say the ending was goofy but definitely not Disney-fied, literally so many examples in New Who episodes before this with hokey, cheesy endings which tie up the main threat incredibly easily and with very little ramifications of the destruction. Just seems a bit of cynical point especially when Disney don't really have creative influence at all. just a weak ending

[@vapx0075]

I think I'm biased on this one as I like having a stable launching point for the next chapter. I don't mind pulling the hook back into the previous chapter, but the more plot point bleed you have between chapters it runs the risk of becoming messy and confusing and the audience needs to remember more and more from the previous chapters as the saga draws on. I usually feel that seasonal story arcs make shows a bit of a gatekeep when it comes to casual viewers and those who suffer from memory loss conditions. If my mum picks up my book, I want her to be able to read one of the arcs and find the vibe and characters familiar without being overly punished and missing out because she doesn't remember the nuanced details of the previous arcs so many pages and potentially months ago IRL for her. And as bad as the beginning was, it was there entirely for those people with very poor memories. For everyone else it was neatly iterated on within the episode. There is catering and considerations going on every step of this episode and choices have been made in one direction and another.

[@chriso5507]

On the subject of Donna and her old ending vs now: I was with you before I watched it. I really REALLY didnt want to see the power and gravity of Donna's "Death" undone. The beauty of that tragedy was too perfect. But here we are, years down the line. I know that personally, at least, Ive been through tragedy after tragedy since that time, and im not the person I was. I get wanting to undo the worst one, or at least cushioning the blow. Sure, it's an "Everybody Lives", but im glad they did it, in the end. Despite the messy way it was pulled off. We've all had enough tragedy I think, and with inevitably more to come ahead of us, why not make it one less from the past?

[@vapx0075]

*points to sign saying 🎢ahead* I don't trust RTD for a happy ending, I trust him for a dramatic ending. They aren't mutually exclusive, but they're not always conveniently the same.

[@hernerwerzog9700]

I quite enjoyed it overall, but if I'm being honest, Doctor Who hasn't "Doctor-Who-d" me for a while. Something about the vibe in the last couple years just didn't convey that sense of wonder and magic...that being said, I'm am actually cautiously optimistic and geniuenly curious where DW will takes the next series!

[@Thewarrior261]

For the TARDIS design, I love how it truly hammers home the idea of the TARDIS being infinite inside but I also feel it being that big and that empty drives home the isolation of the doctor. It *does* need more people in it and more stuff to feel lived in and that's an area for growth going forward

[@MomradG]

After so many harsh reviews of this episode, im so happy for a more down to earth video. Though i feel like the problems of the episode should not be ignored, its nice seeing someone being positive, but not too positive, nor harsh. And finally spmeone who agrees eith me that the new tardis is very mixed...

[@vapx0075]

As an INFJ, I agree except that I don't care about the box. If the TARDIS wants to be OTT big, I'm going to support her personal freedom and choice to try something new with something retro. ngl, who doesn't miss the roundells anyway?

[@fanofstuff1607]

I think the ending for Donna is good(besides That Line), because it’s a way to fix it that takes time, makes sense(I thought of and saw it before, at least), and is also part of her arc in a more subtle way. The thing that saves her is being a mother, which with Sylvia there, and the trauma of the library, is a pretty big thing for her and is helping her move on while also breaking the cycle. Rose being herself being important is good for her arc, as is saving her mom. And the doctor has always had issues letting things go, especially the part of them associated with being a time lord, I can totally see him just… not considering letting the energy go(now that it’s split up enough for that to not just blow everyone up, presumedly). Not having to do with him being male presenting tho, just being the doctor.

[@cinemagoose]

Something that I just thought of is that by this point of the series, 2023 london would not be the same timeline as 2010 london since Moffat made the universe big bang and reset the timelines. It's easily done away with if you explain that the Tardis just took 14 where he needed to go, and the lore doesn't really matter too much anyways.

[@stephjovi]

I like that the wheelchair was more like an excuse for the character to net get hypnotized by the Meep . Sherley is a great character I hope we see her again.

[@mixofreak]

I think the 'male presenting' bit could have been a little better written if it just included a reference to the 'Sisterhood of Karn', and something they might have told Rose subtly, because it literally would have been something The Doctor wouldn't have necessarily known about, since they splintered off from the Time Lords, and they had the means to help create The War Doctor, guiding the regeneration process.

[@vapx0075]

I agree, the episode was too short and they needed to colour it in more to make those lines flow and not clunky. 58 min is the new 120 min. Thanks, internet. Remember the days when the show was literally as many 20 min parts as the story needed? Yeah, hard to go back because it's slow as snails. :( What have we done?

[@generalstaal7075]

Apart from the ending, the plot was perfectly fine, and man it's great to see the old look and sound of of show returning. However, I think this episode should've been a two-parter. On paper, listing everything off point by point, the plot works; but in execution the episode felt condensed, with important moments immediately following one another almost as closely as the contents of a crammed DVD cabinet.

[@jbanks979]

It was already textbook RTD for good and bad, where plot inconveniences get waived away with minimal effort. But it was easily the most fun I have had watching Dr Who in 4 years. It felt like a 10th doctor story, which I’m really hoping 15 stories do not copy entirely, but just the basic ability to add humor! And characters you care about! It just seems so wonderfully refreshing. It clearly has an exponentially larger budget than 2005, but still looks kind of kitschy fun in the best way (the chibs era looked the best for all the good that did) I’ve been looking forward to this ever since Chibs departure was announced.

[@Jiub_SN]

It didn't feel that way at all to me, it felt like chibnal who with RTD's worst tropes, but maybe I'm wrong

[@ketzgaming5124]

I feel like the emptiness/size of the new tardis could be a brilliant opportunity to incorporate some continuity in between episodes it could fill up with probs each episode and become more cluttered as the seasons progressed

[@time2rowco999]

I don't care about the pronoun thing but when Rose said that a male presenting time lord would never have figured it out, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!!?? The doctor was a woman like 4 hours ago.

[@ravenleslie8768]

I really like the new TARDIS Interior but I hope that it gets cluttered over time like how 12 had the bookshelves and chalkboards

[@vapx0075]

And the guitar.

[@thevfxmancolorizationvfxex4051]

Personally, I think I liked Tennant as 14 more than 10. While I don't mind a flawed Doctor, 10 mostly came across to me as an irresponsible teenager (which made it hard for me to like him). 14 is basically 10 after going through lots of therapy. It's great to see Donna back, and I think with time, Rose will grow to be one of my favorite characters too. However, my only real complaints are that the new Sonic Screwdriver is a bit too overpowered, some parts are a bit too fast paced imo, and there were times that I found myself wondering how Donna's mind hadn't burnt up yet already from the very sight of The Doctor and aliens. The third act also felt a bit AI generated. if Donna could have always let go of the metacrisis, why couldn't she have done it sooner in Journey's End? Then again, this all seems a bit too convenient, and maybe this is just a false sense of security we're being lured into so that when Wild Blue Yonder and The Giggle come out and sweep the rug from underneath us, it'll leave us genuinely shocked

[@Jacob004]

I honestly have a feeling that this is what this whole thing will lead to. “Pulling the rug from under us” if you will feels like something the Toymaker would pull so I have a feeling there’s more to it

[@oxcare5]

In regards to Donna's mind burning up, it's only if she remembers. Seeing the Doctor wouldn't necessarily be enough for her to remember.

[@ZekromAndYugiAndDrago123]

I have a working theory that all these specials are going to be revealed to in reality taking place in the Celestial Toyroom, hence David Tennant returning, the convenience in landing directly in front of Donna, etc

[@mattthesilent777RED]

Tennant was ONLY 10! Whittaker, Tennant 2 and Gatwa ARE not canon! Believers of them are living in a strong fantasy

[@dougsfilmtv9810]

Good review of the Star Beast! I will admit I really did enjoy it and I think it was return to form. It was good to see David Tennant and Catherine Tate again and I love those two together. I will admit I was happy to hear Murray Gold's music again and I was happy to hear the Doctor's Theme and I am The Doctor. I am looking forward to your review of Wild Blue Yonder.

[@craytherlaygaming2852]

11:00 One thing I saw mentioned by council of geeks is that while the addition is a bit of power creep, they felt it was balanced perfectly by being difficult to set up. The doctor could only make the force fields because the two factions were fighting eachother, giving him the time to set each field up individually. But I do agree that its not something I feel they should have shown, as now they need to justify *not* using it, by either breaking the sonic, or keeping the doctor from ever getting the chance *to* use it. The drawing screens in the air is fine though as you said, it gives a visual representation to the scans, and I imagine the doctor added that feature *for* his companions. That way he doesn't have to do technobabble all the time and can physically show them what it is he's trying to convey, in a odd way it also shows the spectrum aspect people like me see in him. Where words come difficult to us, so we need different methods to explain our thoughts to those around us without sounding like a crazy person. (edit) To be honest? while I get why you personally disliked the whole donna survival thing, I also have to disagree as you don't just bring back a character like that, and then instantly kill them. This story was more of the doctor making amends and undoing one of his greatest regrets after all he/she/they/ whatever they are in that moment, has been through. Doesn't the doctor deserve this one victory? I see it more as like, a doctor dances moment, the doctor managing to have that one pure, true victory he's always been desperate for making life that much more worth living. Theres a similar thing in a LN series I love that has similar arguments made about the character in question who has a fakeout death, but there it's much worse as she was only *just* introduced. Argument's for donna dying hold more weight, as she's a old companion, but at the same time share that fundemental problem and flaw in the sense that, it'd feel cheep. A way to get as few tear jerkers and abuse nostalga bait rather than give her a proper and more satisfying conclusion to her story than what we got originally. We *had* our bittersweet ending in the parting of the ways, right now is time for a feel good ending where Donna actually gets to keep her memories.

[@DigiRangerScott]

Also visual displays aren’t something that can make it “overpowered”

[@craytherlaygaming2852]

@@DigiRangerScott Yep, which is why I would be perfectly fine with them getting rid of the force field function, so long as they kept the display function in. The display seems like the natural evolution to the sonic, while the force field is more like a gadget the doc would make on the fly with a couple of toothpicks and a microwave.

[@markpostgate2551]

I bet it is introduced for merchandising purposes. You know there is a Harry Potter pictionary that involves drawing in the air with a wand whilst on a screen the picture appears to be in the air in front of you. "What if" says the Disney marketing board, "we sell the same thing but with a Doctor Who's magic screwdriver instead of a wand for the Doctor Who nerds? They are almost as gullible and careless with their money as the Harry Potter nerds!" "But the sonic screwdriver doesn't draw things in the air." "Well make it draw things in the air. Get me that Rustledy Davy fellow on the line. Tell him I want the magic screwdriver drawing things in the air!" Mark my words, Doctor Who Pictionary Air will be in the shops within the next six months. It's cynical marketing. 13:10 "where are the meep plushies; get on that" - sigh, my point confirmed. Do none of these people have rent to pay? 😂 "Please make more crap for me to consume. Make me want it, then give it to me and take my money, you wh***s!" We are all idiots.

[@madeleineherrick1793]

Agree that Donna needed to stay alive. Tbh I interpreted the release of the metacrisis energy as a physical manifestation of each character letting go of emotions they’ve been carrying for a long time - Donna’s grief over losing a part of herself, the Doctor’s guilt for his impact on Donna’s life, and Rose’s shame or self-doubt about her gender identity. It works as all three emotional narratives are about healing and being as kind to yourself as you are to others, but having all three of these narratives is a lot when there’s so much else going on in the episode

[@Alovon]

On the note of Rose and Donna "letting the Metacrisis go". In my read it's pretty much a jab at the vanity of 10 and his jumps to thinking he's the smartest person in the room most of the time. Donna didn't really have a chance to think on how she could handle with the Metacrisis in Series 4 because she was actively burning up, so it was The Doctor's assumption and belief in his own conclusion that led to the result that had to be taken. A Doctor-Donna without that burden (able to use the mind of a timelord and human together, resulting in creativity and spark that timelords normally can't do), would probably have come up with the same conclusion as she did in this episode. And on the note about Rose being a receptacle for some of the Metacrisis energy, it's likely a callback...well to the Metacrisis itself, The Doctor putting his regeneration energy into his hand (matching biological receptacle ) at the top of Journey's End. So like then, a matching biological receptacle (well, compatible in this case) is what saves Donna from dying like how it saved 10 from "dying" earlier than he would later.

[@alansmithee419]

They did say there's never been a human-timelord metacrisis before. All they knew about it is that would would kill whomever held it. That says nothing about whether it can be let go of, so it does make sense in that regard. Also I think it needed to be split between two people to allow them to have the mental focus to relinquish it (otherwise the damage it was causing to the brain may have been too much).

[@the5thdoctor]

Rose and donna being able to let go of all that regeneration energy because there woman is such a dumb explanation to resolve that plot line. Rose isn't even a woman so that that dumb new rule doesn't make any sense in of its self. The way they start lecturing the doctor crapping on the main character of the show and being sexist to him saying you know nothing we know everything. it is a shame you are not a female presenting woman anymore Because otherwise you would understand to just let it go. Seen as the doctor was a woman like a few hours ago and maybe lived as a woman for like 100 years he knows more about it than they do. Talk about cringe condescending and patronizing.

[@the5thdoctor]

@@alansmithee419 But they never present it in that way. They frame it in a way that is cringe condescending and patronizing to the male audience and the doctor. Because they are woman which rose isn't they can get rid of the meta crisis. Plot resolved with a bunch of dumb feminist talk.

[@Alovon]

@@the5thdoctor Tell me you didn't read my OP without telling me you didn't read my OP

[@the5thdoctor]

@@Alovon Yes i did read the original post. The way you claim it got resolved they never explain it in that way in the episode. So that plotline getting resolved falls flat.

[@directorh6018]

The Doctor actually did let it go... The 9th Doctor - (Christopher Eccleston) - a male presenting Time Lord absorbed the Time Vortex from Rose by kissing her. This was done with the sole intention to relive her and without any hesitation whatsoever, he gave the power back to the TARDIS. In general, Journey's End was one of the best episodes. It deserved a high quality ending. Russell T Davies has shown himself to be extremely competent in writing quality stories, but these first two specials weren't really special worthy and more like filler episodes that weren't that great. There is a lot of Disney elements in all of these specials and not in a good way. A lot of elements of these specials were to suit political agendas, yet Russell T Davies also did that in his first run by actually showing homosexuality being a part of life opposed to forcing it as he's they're doing in these specials. For example: Captain Jack kissed the 9th Doctor on the lips after Rose in "The Parting of the Ways". In the "End of time - Part Two", the Doctor assists Jack get with Alonso. These episodes were high quality episodes and had a entertaining, main plot outside these political agendas and they did the superior job of showing homosexuality being a part of every day life without forcing it. Harbo, you stated you don't believe it was meant to be misandry, however misandry has been displayed a multitude of times in Doctor Who in the more recent years. Watch the KZbin video by The Dave Cullen Show as he shows you several examples of Misandry in Doctor Who. Misandry is not a cure for Misogyny. The issue is with these political stances, they're going too out of their way to do it. It's extreme and the plot has been suffering due to it. Russell T Davies has attacked people online who have spoken out against this even going so far to call one a "cry baby" which is extremely unprofessional. Edd Gorenstein has called him the "show-runner victorious". It's gotten so bad that Christopher Eccleston's condition for returning is that Russel T Davies is sacked alongside several other crew runners. When David Tennant returned for the 50th - "The Day of the Doctor", that episode delivered. To be honest, the majority of these specials certainly weren't worth the long wait.

[@jennifernorburg2441]

Well said! 👏 #RIPDOCTORWHO

[@fiftyfive1s410]

I think, with that moment in the end, Davies was trying to talk about how men have had all this power for so long, and how difficult it has been for them to give it up. Good idea to put forth, absolutely awful execution. This was not the moment to bring that up. Maybe in another episode? It would be hard to fit it into this one but hey he is a writing genius so maybe if he worked on that a bit more he would've gotten something. I definitely feel like he may have written this special last, with the uncannily neat ending and everything.

[@mjudec]

Hmm, not sure after 2 years of that being in every episode it was something that needed said though

[@RogerS1978]

But a man did give the power up along with her mom? So this doesn't make sense

[@alexherman77]

Listening to your review and also thinking myself, there’s quite a few moments of “clearly I’m not the intended audience for this” which, in isolation, are fine. If the show was always the exact same it would be incredibly boring and predictable. Variety is good. I bring this up because if the show ends up being full of a bunch of these moments, then the powers that be can’t be surprised if people stop tuning in or complain. Obviously we only have a sample size of one episode in this new era so it is impossible to tell what the direction of the show is. If you make a show to put emphasis on a point most relevant to only a very small group of people, especially if this point is a politically hot-button item, then simple math will say it doesn’t resonate with a majority of people. I don’t want this show to become a vapid apolitical formulaic show. I can only speak for myself (perhaps YT comments aren’t the best place for that lol) but I watch very few modern TV shows, and when I do watch it’s mainly as a means of escapism from a politically supercharged world. Hopefully the rest of the show is more like the first half of this episode than the second half in the way it gets its messages across without stopping the story dead in its tracks.

[@ismellmandude6401]

The fact that they included it at all is not a good sign.

[@TheRauzKindred]

I like the new TARDIS interior, but, it feels more like star wars prequel era or modern star trek, than Doctor Who, way to clean and sterile. I personally feel like console rooms were suppose to feel lived in, while it is the control room, it's also akin to a living or common room in a home as it gets used as such by its passengers in pretty much every iteration.

[@hunterkiller1440]

Line should've been: "We've got all that power but there is a way to get rid of it. Something only us mere mortals can understand."

[@mathieuleader8601]

I would love to see Beep doing a teamup with the Slitheen

[@vapx0075]

The house of Slitheen?

[@TheToonMonkey]

Too much ham-fisted message delivery. The scene with the boys and the reactions on Rose and Donna's faces to the deadnaming were spot on examples of "show don't tell", and the dialogue around that we're perfect. But then we go down the "did you assume the pronoun" scene. And then there's the Metacrisis resolution. Was the dialogue written for the scene, or the scene devised purely to get the 'Binary/Non-Binary" in? Give me the message you want to sure, no problem, but please try to do it in a less cringy way.

[@alansmithee419]

All the idiots ranting about trans wokeism take notes from this comment ^ This is how you format a complaint. I don't completely agree, I think the "binary/non-binary" bit was just an interesting spin on a 15 YO reference, but yeah the pronouns scene was a bit odd. If someone assumes pronouns, they will be corrected by the person they're talking to if that person wants to correct them. If the assumption was correct, or if the person doesn't want to bring it up, don't force the issue into the conversation. On the internet things can be different, as the person being misgendered may not even be present. But in cases like this it's definitely weird for Rose to have done this. However, I do also think the Doctor just going "mb" and moving on without making a fuss about it was good. Also "my preferred pronoun is the definite article" is an amazing line.

[@jasongress8764]

I disagree that it shouldn’t have been Rose who brought it up. Who better than the one person who is overly sensitive about people using the wrong one? To me it seemed on point to her character especially after finding out about where Donna’s memories were hidden. Very consistent storytelling on RTD’s part.

[@IreneWY]

Yes, i agree, but I also have to say Meep: "my preferred pronoun is the definite article. It's always THE meep" Doctor: "yeah, I get that" Had me laughing out loud 😅

[@alansmithee419]

@@jasongress8764 I don't think they had an issue with *Rose* bringing it up, they just didn't like it happening *at all.*

[@jasongress8764]

@@alansmithee419 Good point.

[@jotunfalls4026]

I agree with all your points, but I would still rank this special above the snowmen and the christmas invasion. I just love the temple-noble family and the fourteenth doctor so much. I also like the differences between 10 and 14. 14 comes across as a lot more mature, especially emotionally. I love 14 admitting that he loves donna and wilf and in the footage for the next special we even see him being physically affectionate towards Donna.

[@markpostgate2551]

I think it is above average as an RTD episode; comparable to Smith and Jones (the first attempt to poach The Star Beast plot frankly!), or Partners in Crime. If it wasn't for the unpleasantness of the ending I think it would have been better received.

[@ftumschk]

@@markpostgate2551 Agreed, although I suspect that the very fact that there was a (coloured) trans woman, a wheelchair user and a - God forbid! - Sikh soldier in the story would have been enough "justification" for the usual suspects to write it off as a one-star episode. Their loss; whilst it was by no means a classic, it was objectively a lot of fun.

[@mazycloud2078]

Tbh , I don't know if I'm alone in this, but the second the meep spoke I was like "something wrong, he's lying, do they want us to think something is wrong or is it just over the top acting coming out this way". I didn't believe him for a second, meep is cute but, also really unnerving. Does anyone else had this too or it's just me?

[@SpaceFluffDW]

The episode was fun but felt very rushed. I found it better on a rewatch though.

[@JayCLife]

To me to fix the end of only needs one change. if Donna had died when she remembers and the doctor holds her. If Rose runs in past the brainwashed guards to hug her she activates the genetic metacrisis pastdown in herself. As the hand did to Donna in journeys end. Then with Donna free from the metacrisis rose uses the energy to heal London rather than just it reversed because reasons. Then the metacrisis is gone and we don't have this controversial line or an underwhelming conclusion. That takes away the joy of the rest of the episode.

[@cat_tee_vee]

I defo enjoyed the ep on the whole! The core aspects of it are all there and work well (especially The Meep). My big issue, which I feel explains every problem and nitpick I had as well a lot of the more negative discourse, is that I think the script really needed one more draft before going into production. A lot of things don't properly lock into place, feel a bit clumsy, and coulda done with a bit more explaination and clarification. Overall though, it has a personality and energy that hasn't present in quite some time and defo agree with the B rating!

[@arisamelody]

maybe i misunderstood haha i thought the reason they were able to let go of the doctor donna was because it got shared between two hearts and with her binary binary binary quote the combination of donna and roses person made them viable for the doctor donna and so they have that power to let it go similar to the doctor being able to conjure his regeneration energy to heal people every now and again like in the angels in manhattan episode

[@skateordie280]

The eoisode was good, but the whole "male presenting time lord" plot resolution is not just cringy, its just downright awful. They could've gone with him not understanding because hes not human, or thinks too deeply about things. But no, they went with "because hes a man". Its hard to see it as anything but man hating nonsense, especially when there were so many other options they could've chosen that would've actually made far more narrative sense.

[@kimslice9993]

I agree with you and I’m a woman hearing the doctor be insulted just killed rose off for me the doctor who fan base are mostly men so well done rtd for insulting your fans 🤦‍♀️

[@nerddwarf]

My biggest (only) problem with Rose, is the character is supposed to be *15/16, and the actress is clearly an adult. *In an interview Yasmin Finnley said Rose was 15. The novelisation of "The Giggle" says she's 16

[@rorywatt9752]

its kinda a bit frustrating how this episode can have SUCH GOOD representation and diversity compared to how parts of the chibnall era attempted to do, whilst having a few moments that slightly sour how well some of the previous scenes were handled. But i think the stumbles can mostly be chalked up to this being RTDs first episode back, i can't wait for the next one! Esp Ncuti, i feel like he's gonna be like a mix of 10 and 11 with a dash of 13 which (imo, particularly if he can mix in some 12) could be the best doctor since 11

[@dominicvietti8922]

Representation = hiring mediocre people that check the right boxes

[@jennifernorburg2441]

​@@dominicvietti8922 EXACTLY. #RIPDOCTORWHO

[@Idk-ys7rt]

I think the sonic powers should be explained that it becomes more powerful directly after regeneration which allows them to be more creative with it while characters are developing.

[@MrApplelovin]

The realities of the boys on bikes deadnaming Rose and Sylvia slipping up on pronouns was honestly some of my favourite trans rep, esp when she just corrects herself, and moves on. When I transitioned the first few months were a balance between correcting people and yet also understanding that it is a transition for everyone around us too. We are habit formed and habit forming entities, and it does take time to adjust. I misgendered myself in my head for months and still find talking about my pre transition life a huge pronoun minefield. The later parts with the Doctor about pronouns later was a bit too forced for my liking though, though I get where RTD was trying to go

[@RealBadGaming52]

God help non family and friends around you navigating pronouns, I hope your patient with them and not call them bigots for not dealing with your crowd until 5 mins about, but hey u live in the UK u can have them arrested and threaten thier Job for deadnaming or messing up a pronoun , go You

[@tomjones8859]

​@@RealBadGaming52That's... not how that works. At least not threating people's jobs. It would have to be malicious to be considered a hate crime and such something that could get you in legal trouble. Also they clearly are patient with people and understanding so I don't really get what your point is here

[@maouliamediaofficial]

@@tomjones8859 a lot of trans people online often try to go so far as to demand people get arrested for accidentally using the wrong pronoun for them when they don't know, and act like a simple mistake and misunderstanding is a war crime. This has given a lot of the LGBTQ people a bad reputation in society

[@RealBadGaming52]

@@tomjones8859 im just saying trans people have a lot of power to destroy your life IF you meet the wrong one.

[@danielgertler5976]

It was exactly what I expected from RTD Doctor Who, fun; energetic, a Deus Ex Machina at the end, I'd say 8/10 but some or that might be missing dr who for around a year.

[@Dalekzilla]

Good review. I probably liked it a bit better than you, but I appreciate your very insightful analysis. Look forward to your opinion on the upcoming specials!

[@greghawkins59]

That cold open really annoyed me ngl, it was so weird and felt so unnatural. Not to mention it was unnecessary because there's moments in the episode that clearly explain it

[@OverWims]

Out of the 9 incarnations of the Doctor from NuWho/2005 onwards (including 15/Ncuti Gatwa but not including all the Timeless Child incarnations), only 3 haven't regenerated to or from David Tennant. 9/Christopher Eccleston regenerated to David Tennant. 10 (S2-S4 Version)/David Tennant regenerated to David Tennant. 10 (Specials Version)/David Tennant regenerated from David Tennant. 11/Matt Smith regenerated from David Tennant. 13/Jodie Whittaker regenerated to David Tennant. 15/Ncuti Gatwa will presumably regenerate from David Tennant (will edit after "The Giggle" has aired) Only War/John Hurt, 12/Peter Capaldi and 14/David Tennant didn't regenerate to or from David Tennant. So basically, David Tennant is way more of an impactful figure in NuWho than people realise and, as much as I love 10 and David Tennant as an actor, it's time for him to go. Having him be "around" off-screen while 15 is around also is just a terrible idea and as others have said will really undermine Ncuti's Doctor immensely. Also before people say anything: I didn't include the Timeless Children incarnations as I wanted to limit it to main/prominent incarnations. In my mind, this would mean any incarnation that we saw for at least 2 episodes. War was in "The Name of the Doctor" at the end so he was technically in 2 episodes. I didn't include the Ruth/Fugitive Doctor because we have no clue who she regenerated from or into. For all we know, she could've had 10's face beforehand or afterwards and 10 got a repeat face when he became 10 but had no idea. Anything is possible with Doctor Who. I also didn't include the second 13th Doctor that came after the Master separately because 13 came back and then was injured quite soon afterwards which then led to her regeneration. If it was a completely different regeneration/body then technically she'd still be within the first 15 hours of her regeneration cycle like 10 was when his hand was cut off and she would just heal/rejuvenate. Considering that didn't happen I think it's safe to assume it's meant to be the same 13th Doctor and not a new incarnation with the same face.

[@berserkasaurusrex4233]

You forgot the Timeless Child's onscreen regeneration, and didn't Whittaker have two regen scenes, one becoming the Master? Or do those not count?

[@OverWims]

@@berserkasaurusrex4233 Considering Jodie 2 came back and then was injured quite soon afterwards, if it was a completely different regeneration/body then technically she'd still be within the first 15 hours like 10 was and would just heal. Considering that didn't happen I think it's safe to assume it's meant to be the same Jodie. And I didn't even think of including the timeless children lol. And I'm glad I forgot about that.

[@liambethell2584]

Donna knows that the doctor has regenerated because as the metacrisis she inherits all memories of the doctor up until that moment.

[@sunmouse4220]

Its good to hear a more positive review but personally I am very weary of tv shows trying to educate me. I just want to be entertained after a long working week

[@scix8794]

SPOILER WARNING I'm genuinely sad that I'm not giving this episode a positive rating. I was really looking forward to this but at the moment my enthusiasm for the rest of these specials has dropped. That is a damm shame considering the story potential these stories had. To start off, please *DO NOT* say to, 'Oh they will address that later' because that isn't an excuse for presenting the story in the manner it has been especially with some of the character interactions. 14 is great here but I still don't see how he is different from 10 at all and that is a negative in my book considering that we already have plenty of 10 stories, I was really hoping RTD would do something different with Tennant's range than just oh its 2008 again but with a more inclusive cast. The best scene by far in this episode was the one where 14 asks about Wilf and I just teared up. The 'twist' of him not actually being dead was funny and surprisingly didn't take me out of the story in any way. Donna was wonderful to see again except for the fact that, I still don't know why we needed to see her again. Nothing interesting has been done with her arc, in fact in my view at least at the moment the impact of her ending has been dimished. Sylvia was also wonderful to see surprisingly, her having aged actually hit me very hard. Rose at the moment unfortuantely has no character. She is just like a cardboard slate at the moment, and that is a damm shame considering she has so much potential, hope that she has a lot more scenes in the future that actually develop her character. This story, if what I list below hadn't happened would have been a good story(7/10) with a decently executed doctor who story. Okay so the lines about Rose being trans fall into 2 camps, one being good and the other being horrendously crowbarred in. The initial scene wuth Sylvia misgendering her and the neighbourhood teens being jerks were both good and I was happy about the handling of a trans character uptil that moment. But then we have the garbage line of 'Are you gonna assume pronouns', this is so badly written like just why, why do we have to have this incredibly forced line instead of something subtler like 'He?' and the doctor goes 'Oh yea fair enough, what do you go by Beep'. Don't you see how much better this is?? But the worst offender is the 'Non-binary' scene, I was so disheartned by that scene, because turning those words into this forced garbage genuinely took me out of this story. Especially so when paired with the 'Something a male presenting timelord wouldn't get, just giving it up' That is probably one of the worst moments RTD has ever written given how goddam much it undermines Donna's exit and to almost shield himself from criticism has been written in pseudo-progressive garbage. I hate this, this moment almost kills me. I expected better 'representation' from RTD than this, especially when I've seen 'It's a sin'. I feel so sad that we needed the shoe-horned in line of making some bizzare connection of something as human as gender to regeneration. I hate this. The moment I like are ones where Missy finds the idea of romantic love stupid and earthly or when 12 says 'Gender and its associated stereotypes'. These moments are so so much better than this trash. I do like the 'Male presenting timelord' line though, that is genuinely nice. Overall just sadded that we had to undermine Donna's exit, I'm sure that this isn't the end of her time but even then the mere suggestion that 'She just didn't have to want it or that the doctor just had to understand that she wouldn't want it' is just trash. I'm hoping for improvement. Just feel incredibly bummed out at the moment.

[@Williamfuchs420]

The sonic has always basically been a magic wand to the Doctors Merlin hell the Doctor probably is Merlin

[@Lukusprime]

My dad and I have been excited for these specials since the day they were announced. We both paid extremely close attention to it, practically hanging off of every word, and I for one had no idea that Rose was trans until you mentioned it in this video. In the scene where she was getting harassed by her classmates on bikes, I thought it was the typical “everyone bullying the odd/nerdy kid” thing. So for everyone saying that the trans representation was laid on too thick, I’d say it was incredibly subtle, considering I didn’t even notice it!

[@sophielouise1854]

LOL yes ! I'm literally a trans person myself and even I didn't notice it until they had to say on screen that Rose is nonbinary, so all these people complaining about it being "over the top" or "shoved down their throats" are being so dramatic

[@zarrg5611]

I think my main problem is that after seeing it I thought 'that was silly fun without much depth', then I remembered I thought the same thing about The Five Doctors, a far better anniversary special with a far more engaging plot and characters (though to be fair pretty much every character apart from rassilon is returning).

[@cameronbrown940]

I'm sorry but the complaint about 14 acting like 10 is beyond stupid. Like RTD said what would be the point in brining Tennant back to play a totally different character?

[@samuelbarber6177]

Yeah. The whole point of bringing Tennant back was to recapture his magic as Ten. It would be profoundly dumb to not only bring him back, but also to bring back Donna only to have him be a wholly different character.

[@everettrailfan]

I think overall it was a fun little romp, nothing too crazy. Davies definitely pulled off that more "traditional" Doctor Who feeling he said it would be. And yeah, the ending kinda sucked. Even as someone who doesn't agree with the political ideology, I actually like seeing representation pulled off correctly, and this definitely wasn't. Shirley and her wheelchair were perfect in terms of representation honestly. Although one thing I heard from someone else is that it feels like a UNIT scientific advisor could at least have something a bit more high-tech than a wheelchair, but it's not really that big of a deal. I wish Rose had been portrayed as an ordinary person rather than somehow being significant solely because of her sexuality, putting her on level ground with everyone else which is what I think representation should be. Isn't the goal of representation to normalize, rather than point out people's differences?

[@alansmithee419]

You can't normalise differences without pointing them out (though this can certainly be done more subtly). Sorry to pick out one tiny part of your comment, but the thing is I disagree with the entire premise of calling it a "political ideology" (assuming I understood what you were referencing by that). Trans people exist through no choice of their own (the only choice is whether they come out), regardless of whether anyone believes that they should. The only question is whether we accept these people or force them to squirm in discomfort potentially for their entire lives for something they had no control over.

[@zarrg5611]

​@@alansmithee419 There is more ideology to the episode then trans rights.

[@alansmithee419]

@@zarrg5611 hence the note in brackets. I read into their comment, I may have done so incorrectly. We move.

[@everettrailfan]

@@alansmithee419 I think I both agree and disagree lol. Definitely it can be done more subtly, which in my opinion RTD was excellent at in his first run. I agree that those differences need to be pointed out, but not to the point that it almost alienates them which this episode seems to do (and I have seen a lot of trans people in other comment sections say they didn't really like the ending either). If I was trans, I'd want to be treated like a normal member of society, not some sort of hero with magical powers. Actually, now that I think about it, it's very possible he carefully planned this ending, because now everyone is talking about the show. I'm not sure but I certainly wouldn't put it past him to stir up a controversy like that lol.

[@alansmithee419]

@@everettrailfan Oh I'm convinced that that is absolutely the kind of thing he'd do. Honestly it's part of activism as a whole. Even if no one likes what you're doing, or likes you, and even if nothing you do directly brings anyone onto your side, just getting people talking about something can bring about the change you want anyway. What better way to get a lot of people talking about something than to make it a controversial part of one of the most popular British shows of all time? Edit: And I absolutely get the thing about not being made out to be magic or special in some way. I just disagreed with the wording of that specific statement of yours about differences in general.

[@Samraaaa2]

I find it so inexplicably hilarious that beep was pretending to be so adorable and niave the entire time- like all those cute murmured noises was part of the skit?!?! 😭😭😭

[@vapx0075]

I wonder if they'd be any good at DnD or just a toxic player?

[@Acknowledgerofdoctorwho]

that's what they did it the comics, so go cry to pat mills.

[@Michael_Lafirm]

I loved it, but thought it was influenced a lot by the length. I think reintroducing the 10th/14th doctor, donna and her family, having a whole story line, and resolving the Doctor-Donna story line messed with the pacing quite a bit. I think the sonic is in one of its worst forms here as a supercomputer, drill, lockpick, and energy shield and that’s in part due to needing to speed through certain aspects of the story. I also think the conclusion is a bit dodgy. If the idea was that they could “release the power” they needed to better explain why Donna wasn’t able to do that beforehand or maybe better clarify that it had something to do with the splitting of the power or forming of a binary/non-binary cycle

[@dshaynietheawesome]

I didn’t think it was possible to dis that incredible scene revealing the screwdriver can do more now and actually creating a useful force field to let the nobles and meep escape. But somehow you managed

[@triangle_cat]

9:21, no, sorry, every single time she appears on the screen IT IS mentioned. I honestly felt she had way too little screen time in this episode, so perhaps in the future she will get some character development, but for now she is just a template in a wheelchair who realised that the ship landed(wow, I think that was obvious just from looking at the ship, wasnt it??)

[@Jackson-ub1uv]

Honestly, they should’ve kept the reason behind Donna’s survival a mystery, and having the Celestial Toymaker reveal that it was because of him.

[@nonyabusiness9682]

I honestly think the new screwdriver powers are awsome. I believe had it not had these new abilities he would have still used it to escape just in a much more boring way. This is a much more intresting form of powercreep that allows for more creative applications. In my mind the screwdriver is mostly still as powerfull as its always been its just going to have more dynamic uses now

[@LucasCanDrum]

I don't understand why people would care much about them adding powers to the screwdriver unless its totally overpowered. I think it's cool to give the Doctor more non-violent ways to get out of battles without needing to create potholes or deus ex machina

[@CritterKeeper01]

I think the console room keeps getting bigger because the TARDIS is growing! Per the deleted scene on the beach where the Doctor gives Rose and Handy what is basically a cutting from the TARDIS so they can grow their own, she's an organic machine and it makes sense that she's continuing to grow through the centuries.

[@kinnundo6434]

09:50 I have a friend with a knife in their cane so I had a nice giggle at that

[@db7541]

22:25 I assumed that was something to do with her being the metacrisis with him, and the connection that creates between them. But yeah I did wonder and if that is the explanation it’s certainly not clear and is never stated.

[@aDifferentJT]

I got bored during the long action set piece earlier on, I thought they definitely should have cut some of that to write a better ending. It felt like RTD was so excited to have a big Disney CGI budget that he didn’t bother to write a compelling story, which was such a shame, because in so many other ways it was really good.

[@isobarkley]

disagree that 14 feels just like 10, but this is also after having seen wild blue yonder

[@abigailxmary]

one of the only things that took me out of the episode was david tennants natural accent creeping in every now and then lmao the whole binary/non binary thing was a bit confusing too bc Rose is very clearly a femme presenting binary trans character??? She never mentioned being non binary/using they/them pronouns??

[@ACC-KXY]

I think what really weighs this episode is the fact that it is a special. So many things are tied to it for it to truly work or shine as what was intended. The return of David Tennant and Catherine Tate, the introduction of a new doctor, the reintroduction of old companions, the anniversary, the original comics, and the resolution to what happened to Donna back in season 4. All these ideas cramped into one episode and it tries so hard to provide an arc or conclusion which is why I kinda feel underwhelmed to all the quick resolutions at the end. I think Donna's memory completely returning should have been saved for the last episode of the special with perhaps a greater threat to answer. Remember Donna's memory wipe was a consequence of her saving the entire universe (or multiverse) and now it was undone because Meep want to juice up its ship using London. Yeah that's nine million people but the scale against the latter is far too great. P.S. I think it would worked better if the ship would just sacrifice one person (kinda like Wilf being the singular person 9 has to sacrifice his life for) and that person could be Rose. I think the episode tries this by Donna mentioning Rose as one of the collaterals if the ship succeeds but I think it's too consequential to really click. All qualms aside, I think the ep was good. I think it was just underwhelming because of all the expectations tied to it. Hoping it just gets better again from here on.

[@darth-nuisance3360]

Watching this episode back is beyond disappointing now that I think about it

[@ConsciousStoner08]

8:48 Shirly is the 50something most qualified scientific advisor in Unit, Ozgood was #2 and The Doctor is #1. (You learn about that in the day of the doctor audiobook/novelisation)