Does a GFCI Outlet Still Provide Protection Without A Ground Wire?

[@baire702]

You are awesome and so is your information! I have ADHD and find it difficult to understand a lot of people's descriptions on how to do things, but you make your information clear, even for me! Thank you!

[@ericyoung772]

20 years ago I was buying an older triplex with 2 wire outlets and the home inspector mentioned putting in a GFI to protect people and eliminate those adaptors. I am glad he shared the information just as you are. Thanks.

[@mweezy]

I had a conversation with a school instructor and he said, every device box must have its own GFCI receptacle based on the Canadian Electrical Code book. Now that can get pretty expensive and I don't know if people are doing that.

[@im2yys4u81]

@@mweezy Here in the US you can put the GFCI on the first receptacle in the circuit and it will protect the other receptacles downstream.

[@hinspect]

@@im2yys4u81 Ground fault Breakers are available too

[@im2yys4u81]

@@hinspect When I did my panel swap a few weeks ago I went with dual function breakers, then had to go through the house and remove the GFCI receptacles.

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

@@mweezy I think you misunderstood that. The rule is that every outlet must have GFCI protection, but not the actual GFCI device. You can either chain them with a GFCI first from the panel, or use a GFCI breaker. In fact, the rules are becoming stricter, and virtually all general purpose outlets must be AFCI/GFCI. The AFCI part can only be done in the panel.

[@-agent-47-80]

Thank you for explaining WHY to those who didn't know this situation......I work on older homes where adding a ground is financially impossible..... otherwise adding a ground to every outlet is advisable

[@trek520rider2]

To make life more bearable you only need one GFCI outlet per circuit on the outlet nearest the circuit breaker. Finding the outlet nearest the breaker can be a challenge!

[@theward1244]

How does one find out which outlet is the first one in the line?

[@-agent-47-80]

@@theward1244 shut off power to the circuit remove hot(black) wires to outlets...turn on power and check which one has power.... that's your first one in line

[@shanecompton2428]

@@trek520rider2 true but tell that to Section 8 people. I ended up switching all 2 prong plugs to gfci

[@SiPuedesTambien]

@@shanecompton2428 you could also use a GFCI and to make it even better, a AFCI/GFCI breaker type. In this case the receptacles in that circuit are protected.

[@OhDannyBoy2k]

Fantastic video. I've never seen this called out so clearly.

[@millomweb]

But wrong !

[@sherrykendrick1765]

@@millomweb how so?

[@wellsnapyeah]

@@millomweb how so?

[@millomweb]

@@wellsnapyeah They work on detecting an alternative current path than the pair of power wires that are supposed to be the only wires carrying current. The only way there's going to be an alternative current path is when that alternative path is complete. So if that path involves the use of 'ground', 'ground' has to be connected in to the circuit AT THE OTHER END - which usually means to the neutral wire - and that wire is connected back to the GFCI - so even without an identified earth/ground wire to the GFCI, there is actually still a ground connection. to it. WITHOUT that connection, an alternative circuit would not exist to cause an imbalance in the 2 wires supposedly providing the power. Having bought a generator about a year ago, I've spent SOME time getting my head around how all this works. If there's not alternative current path, the GFCI cannot trip (and is not actually needed ! BUT IF a circuit should happen it would work and would be a useful safety device.

[@Tom-In-Ga]

Perfect explanation even though there are always those that will argue the point 'till hell freezes over. Remember, the question was if you "NEED" ground for gfci to work. The answer is no. If the question was if it was preferred, then yes.

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

In fact, you NEED GFCI to work on groundless circuits in order to bring two-wire circuits up to code when you make a modification to it. [When you modify an existing circuit, the code requires you bring that circuit up to current code. The code's being nice to you by allowing GFCIs as a legal alternative to tearing up walls to install 3 wire.]

[@Tom-In-Ga]

@@fromagefrizzbizz9377 Agreed. I'm just amazed at how so many people answered "no" to the simple question of whether it will work or not without ground.

[@stevelopez372]

@@Tom-In-Ga Yes I am amazed as well. I remember when it first hit the NEC about 1972. I was in High School and worked construction during the summer in SoCal. And even after my 35 years as a Building Inspector, there is still confusion about this device. ARC- Fault as well. Lol.

[@MarkEmerAndersonII]

@@Tom-In-Ga Yeah - the beauty of GFCI is how it measures the small differences in hot and neutral currents to trip. If the ground wire had to be involved it would be hard to detect it fast enough and still provide safety.

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

@@Tom-In-Ga It demonstrates I think wilful ignorance of a LOT of code/diy publications saying EXACTLY what GFCIs are intended for, and why they do work. On the other hand, such polls are pretty meaningless. Do they mean ground wire, or alternate grounding path. From the perspective of personal safety, it doesn't matter if there is one or not. If there is one, it trips, and saves you. If there isn't one, no current flows, no electrocution, and it can't hurt you even tho the GFCI doesn't trip. Then you get the pedants saying they don't work without a ground path - technically true. But misleading in terms of above. Then you get into how qualified are the respondents? If the guy answering doesn't do any wiring, what difference does it make? The only bad part is those making recommendations in videos or on comments, that say that GFCIs don't work without a ground wire. That's just plain wrong, and is in contradiction to code, official code-guides and everything else.

[@protoman247]

Nice detail at 4:25. I was wondering why my tester wouldn’t trip the gfci. I figured it was cuz there was no ground. Makes sense. 👍

[@ronb6182]

@@protoman247 what a concept GFIs need grounds to be a GFI. 73

[@protoman247]

@@ronb6182 no they don’t

[@ronb6182]

@@protoman247 go away fraud you need a ground period! It's just another plug without a ground. 73

[@ronb6182]

@@protoman247 they are just another plug with some unconnected electronics inside. I just don't know why anyone would risk their family with outdated wiring it's not a big thing to pull a new romex cable with the proper ground wire. I was lucky with Dad's wiring it was grounded just need to bond a wire to the metal box. Only if you have EMT in the walls. 73

[@billmongiello4885]

many guys are talking about this application on youtube but your explanation is the most complete that i have seen...it explaines every aspect of replacing a 2-prong receptacle outlet with a gfci...thanks

[@herbiesnerd]

By code, GFCI’s must trip between 4-6 mA’s. A Hubbell rheostat type tester is a great tool to properly test a GFCI. It ranges from 1-7 mA, 1 mA at a time so when it pops, you know exactly what mA set it off. Anything less than 4 mA that trips it is considered a nuisance. Anything over 6 mA is not enough protection. Toss the GFCI for a new one if it’s outside the 4-6 mA range.

[@alistair1978utube]

By code, apostrophes aren't used to form plurals.

[@jcwoods2311]

@@alistair1978utube They're just being possessive..................(On my period, don't judge me!)

[@ronb6182]

@@alistair1978utube who the blank cares. The point is made . Go and teach all the Hispanics to speak English you would be better off. There are hundred's of reason's why!. 73

[@sherrykendrick1765]

@@alistair1978utube who cares. We get the meaning.

[@alistair1978utube]

@@sherrykendrick1765 people with an IQ over 90 usually care about getting things right...

[@2manycatsforadime]

Doing this project today and ran into every confusion mentioned. Wow everything explained clearly. Thank you.

[@MrTrashcan1]

Without a ground wire, I couldn't figure out why the GFCI worked. This was the best description I've heard and completely clarifies it. Thank you very much!

[@ReclusiveMountainMan]

I just re-did all the two prong outlets in our place, which was built in the early 1950s. Was wondering why the Klein tool did not trip the non-rounded GFCI outlet. Great that there will be some protection from the GFCI outlet by itself. Thanks for the education.

[@dandearman2871]

With a non-grounded outlet there is no path to ground to make any fault current for the GFCI to see. If you want to test your GFCI outlets plug your Klein tester into a cheater plug and then into your GFCI outlet. Find an electrical ground and run a wire from it to the grounding tab on your cheater plug and now the test button should trip the GFCI.

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

@@dandearman2871 This is unnecessary. A gfci does not need a ground, the test is by drawing a small current with some of it bypassing the detection coil. If a gfci tester (or test buttons) fails to trip a gfci the gfci is either defective or it’s being supplied thru the load terminals, not the line ones.

[@tek4]

GFI or GFCI are a wonderful device. They measure the current that travels out on the hot lead, and what returns on the white Neutral wire. If there is any difference it will shut off, and potentially protect you. Normally it will trip at 10 miliamps and has saved many many people. If you took the Hot and Neutral and pretended they were on a sea saw, if they get out of balance, the circuit will open with a GFI. Its one of my favorite upgrades as a electrician to bring a house up to code with minimal investment for the customer. Ideally I would do a whole house rewire, because that would make me more money, however, this option is not really great most of the time because of the amount of labor it is to run new circuits threw the home. Arc Faults are finally getting better then when they were introduced are a different animal that works by listening to the wire and tripping of there is any arc. Different job, reason and purpose.

[@eapbg]

Small correction. A GFCI does not measure the current. It uses "one simple trick". When both hot and neutral wires pass thrugh the same current ransformer their magnetic fields cancel. The current transformer does not register any current. Only when there is an imbalance does the current transformer register a current. So effectivly the GFCI measures the imbalance of current, not the current itself.

[@johnd5398]

good thing you were here to parrot what the fucking video just said...

[@gordduncan5859]

I was raised in a home built in the early 1940's with post and tube wiring. When Dad put bedrooms in the attic he used Romex with no ground. I had a couple of Short Wave radios up there and to improve the reception we ran a bare ground wire beside the septic tank stack down to the basement where it was connected to the copper pipe bringing our water in from the street. My Mother was vacuuming my room when the vacuum cleaner's metal wand contacted the bare copper wire with a bright blue spark and the fuse blew. We were fortunate no-one was electrocuted! I have worked since then in a large metal stamping plant and noticed that heavy bare ground wires in the open had green insulation. We tend to think that a bare ground wire is safe because it is at zero volts; BUT combine it with a hot appliance or tool in your hand and it now very dangerous!!

[@KevinT3141]

In that particular case it was the vacuum cleaner that was dangerous, the exposed ground just highlighted the problem for you before it killed someone. Edit to add: A GFCI outlet would have prevented the blown fuse.

[@michaelholliday100]

Ground Wires never carry electricity to ground unless there is a short circuit.

[@goodun2974]

@@KevinT3141 , There are advantages to our modern vacuum cleaners and double-insulated power tools made with plastic cases: it's far less likely that the user will contact a hot or live chassis in the event of an internal fault in the device. I can remember getting zapped as a kid when using my dad's old metal-case Stanley power drill while standing on the basement concrete floor barefoot or in damp sweaty leather mocassins. A few years later we upgraded to double insulated double insulated Bosh tools with plastic cases, which didn't give you shocks even though they did not have a grounded cord. This was of course in the long ago days when powerfull cordless tools weren't available.

[@MrTooTechnical]

Great vid. Another point to consider is that gfci should never be used in series on the same circuit. If multiple gfci’s are to be on the same circuit they must be connected to the line side to line side NOT load side to line side. Or else the most upstream gfci will trip and be a nuisance. Nice.

[@kenbrown2808]

note that daisy chaining GFCIs will not cause malfunctions - it will just be annoying because a fault may trip multiple devices.

[@rogerk1710]

Thanks for the info on a very informative video. I’m a licensed GC and I installed GFI’s on an old apartment. I labeled the load outlets with the No equipment label but I didn’t put the GFCI protected labels. I will do so in the future! Thanks

[@jolyonwelsh9834]

They also make DFCI receptacles (dual function) which provide ground fault and arc fault protection as well. They are the same size and shape as a standard GFCI receptacle and can also be used for the same application.

[@danjoe22]

something I already knew but great explanation of the safety feature a gfci can provide when there is no equipment ground.

[@cjtzioumis686]

That was beautifully explained. You also put my mind to rest, as my daughter's apartment has those labels on some of the outlets and we were unsure what sort of protection they actually provided.

[@ryn022]

4:26 - saved me! Swapping out old outlets and then using my old plug-in GFCI tester and nothing was tripping. Thought I'd weird everything incorrectly. Thank you for explaining. Great video.

[@poncho6784]

This totally changes my plan for my class B camper van build. I wasn’t going to include a GFCI on the 120v system because I had read they wouldn’t add any protection without a true earth ground. The exception being of course if you’re connected to shore power where the supply is supposed to be grounded to earth. So much for experienced electrical “experts” on the ‘net. Thanks for the helpful vid!

[@EverydayHomeRepairs]

You bet! Best of luck on the project, sounds fun 👍

[@andrewtoth9876]

Thank you. With your instructions, I just completed the installation of multi GFCIs. My Family is safer now given your gracious assistance. Bless you!

[@geneo1976]

Good explanation. I am a building inspector in a small town. I run into this all the time in the older part of town. I explain to the owners of the building that they are protected by a GFCI when they replace a 2 prong outlet over a kitchen countertop or bath vanity and don't need to run an extra ground wire. Most understand when you explain it.

[@ronb6182]

@@geneo1976 just remember an ungrounded outlet when configured with a GFI outlet will not protect equipment only against shocks. The ground is there to get the full benefit of the GFI. 73

[@ragmanintx]

These things are great for old homes without a ground wire. Love the option.

[@sminthian]

These cost like $20 vs a normal $1 outlet. You might as well just do it correctly and run some 3-wire Romex out to it....

[@TylerTron21]

@@sminthian without pulling permits or without an electrician? Because it cost a ton of money to run Romex everywhere, to code. Especially through solid walled homes.

[@hammerridecycling7630]

just bought a house 1960 and no ground wires.gfci not grounded so this helps understand now.and i still have that zinsco panel😪

[@TylerTron21]

@@hammerridecycling7630 I had a zinsco as well and just had it replaced by my electrician friend for 1200$. New panel with new circuits. Definitely recommended, mine was faulty and the main breaker didn't even cut power.

[@vlad1889]

@@sminthian Where I live everything needs to be piped pretty much. So good luck.

[@hdcrow]

You always explain things so clearly. Thank you.

[@millomweb]

But wrong ! The GFCI needs a ground - and if it doesn't look like it has one, it'll use the neutral wire as that will be connected to ground usually somewhere.

[@nicwelch]

@@millomweb Can you provide a source or a statute? I don’t see how what he said is wrong. It doesn’t need a ground to work. Edit. In fact I just double checked and you don’t seem to know what you’re talking about.

[@makim-k5850]

This is what I thought. Thanks for the info. I'm an Ironworker and I'm rewatching an old Csi episode where a construction worker dies from electrocution and the super says a gfci won't work if the tool's ground prong is cut. But I KNEW that couldn't be correct.

[@josemunoz2464]

Great video! I have an outdoor GFCI outlet mounted to a plastic box and was going insane trying to figure out how to ground it. This was very educational.

[@shortypalmer2560]

I watched your previous video where you were fixing someone's receptacles. I am glad I did, I just ran into that at my daughter's house in Tampa. She had a relative install a gfci on an interior wall so they could be put a outside receptacle in. The gfci would not stay on. There was no ground, just the old two wires with like a cloth outside. I took apart the inside gfci and separated the wires. They had two whites on the line side and two blacks on the line side. I determined the gfci was bad ( I was wrong). Bought a new one, installed with only the line side with one white and one black, everything else went on the load side. Still did not work. Took apart the outside receptacle, they put a jumper from ground to white side. Needless to say, everything worked, I already knew without a ground it would be ok from having watched your previous video. Thanks. not an electrician, previous carpenter lol

[@donwolfjr1]

Excellent information, thank you!!! I just rewired my entire house (born in 1942) and I obviously installed a couple gfcis but EVERYTHING I did is grounded!! If it wasn't before, it is now!!!

[@guygrotke8059]

Great! You mentioned how to replace other two prong outlets in the circuit after the GFCI, by connecting them to the load terminals. That was a bit of info I've sought for long time. At 5:30, you showed the cover plate for a normal three prong outlet with the two labels. That three prong outlet would have no ground wire, but would still be protected by the upstream GFCI.

[@ednovak2224]

OK, I was one of the 66% that had this wrong. Great explanation. Clear, concise, simple and Very Useful! Thanks..

[@NativelyBornAmerican]

Thanks for your excellent explanation! I knew all this but your explanation is much clearer than mine when trying to explain it to others.

[@dandearman2871]

One thing people shouldn't do is make their own extension cord with a standard GFI in a box on the end. For the GFI to work there must be power to it from the hot and common wire. If the cord would somehow get damaged and the neutral wire breaks, the GFI will no longer trip leaving the hot side of the GFI energized. The commercially made GFI extension cords have a voltage monitoring circuit that removes both hot and neutral from the receptacle if there is a break in either conductor. If you still want to make your own GFI extension cord, Hubble sells a cord end that has a GFI and the voltage monitoring circuit together.

[@tek4]

I can see the logic, but if someone was dead set on doing the box on a cord route, I would hope the minimum would be a gfi outlet on it.

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

If you wire an extension cord with a GFCI on the end, and the neutral in the cord breaks yes, the GFCI won't trip. But, while the hot wire is still energized it likely will still trip if the hot conducts any current (like thru you to a copper pipe). Because the neutral current flow is zero, and the hot isn't.

[@MarkLawry]

Thanks for pointing that out. Makes sense.

[@xHadesStamps]

Ideally it's plugged into a GFCI protected outlet. Ideally.

[@okaro6595]

That is why in Europe, at least in Finland RCDs need to be voltage independent i.e. not electronic. As there is no electronics it works even without power. But if you make an extension cord it is better to put the protection to the plug so it protects if the cord gets damaged and you get shocked from it.

[@markricci1361]

That's a terrific explanation and the way you were so deliberate in your delivery made it clear how important the topic is and to take the time to fully understand it.

[@GettingSoberAgain]

I've been looking for these answer over 30 different videos. THANK YOU

[@patricianelson5807]

excellent explanation. Our home inspector did highlight for us that, while recepticles had been changed from 2-prong to 3-prong (not GFCI) the underlying wires had not been changed. He described this as "common". (No label, either.) He did recommend GFCIs be put in wet areas. Based on your and other youtube input, we will be letting him know he is not giving the best advice to potential home buyers.

[@okaro6595]

Yes, when you do not have a ground wire it is always GFCI. The wet rule is for new installations with a ground wire.

[@Michael-nt7yx]

I already knew the answer to the poll because I watched your 2 prong to gfci install before doing it myself 💪

[@millomweb]

Actually, the GFCI will most likely be grounded via the neutral wire.

[@Michael-nt7yx]

@@millomweb I feel like you responded to the wrong person

[@arnecarlsson9740]

What is happening if you push the test button on a GFCI receptacle which is not connected to a ground?

[@nickellis7775]

That’s a great question. A GFCI WITHOUT a ground wire WILL trip when you push the ‘TEST’ button on the GFCI itself, because it is wired differently from a portable tester. The button on the GFCI test circuit is wired (through a resistor) from the live wire on the upstream side of the sensing transformer (CT) to the neutral wire on the downstream side of the sensing CT, thereby causing the required 5mA imbalance current needed to trip the GFCI within 5mSec.

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

@@nickellis7775 Not with a GFCI I just tried recently.

[@Wirenutby]

I was going to make a video explaining this exactly as you stated for my friend. You nailed it. Your video was very detailed and easy to understand you. Great job!

[@flashesofblack4128]

Super great and concise video. Maybe I am nitpicking but the only thing a might change is the bare copper is the grounding conductor, the white is the grounded conductor, and the black is the ungrounded conductor.

[@rhoonah5849]

Excellent explanation. I had always wondered "why" a GFCI was still advised with an ungrounded outlet.

[@neilbrookins8428]

You explained well how the external gfci test button doesn’t work. But you should have said that the internal gfci test button DOES still work. This is because the testing current travels from the load side hot to the line side neutral. Meaning it doesn’t go on the ground wire like the external testing device. Also, the external testing device when you press the button energizes the metal frame of a three prong connected device plugged into your gfci at the same time as it’s tested. This creates a hazardous condition when using external testers on ungrounded outlets.

[@nroman1977]

You forgot about a few places like Cook County Illinois where we use metal conduit and Romex is prohibited. The metal conduit acts as ground and is routed back to the Fusebox as such. In situations that have flexible metal conduit over 6ft or over a specific amperage you must run a dedicated ground back to the nearest rigid conduit metal box.

[@user-kw6fu2vk3w]

A very good video. My local electrical contractor inslalled GFCI, telling me it provided Ground. After that installation, I contacted the company owner to tell him I actually wanted Ground, not just GFCI, to my outlets. He insisted that GFCI provided Ground. Did he lie or is he incompetent? Doesn't matter. Needless to say, I will not be doing further business with that outfit.

[@freelanceminion7396]

I have a house from the 1960s and many (but not all) outlets do NOT have a ground, and I am glad to learn a GFI will make the circuit at least more safe if not entirely as safe.

[@bobpratt7083]

Good info video. Most older homes, post knob & tube era and pre romex era have BX cable attached to metal electrical gang boxes. Most of the breaker panels in those post k & t homes are grounded, and the BX cable continues that ground up to the boxes. By using that gray grounding adapter and screwing it onto the outlet plate screw a grounding path will occur. An easy test should be performed to confirm that the screw is part of the house's panel ground.

[@yani365]

Came here to say this.

[@robertborchert932]

I live in an old house. GFCI protection is quite important. Most folks do not understand just what a GFCI does! The device is a comparator. It looks at current loss between the hot and neutral. Having a grounded power source is naturally the best. A GFCI will trip on a few milliamperes of loss. Interesting to see that they may need to be replaced regularly. Yep. Low cost may mean Chinesium.

[@andypoe1966]

Awesome explanation, simple and concise. Thank you

[@cetyl2626]

Another purpose a ground wire serves is some equipment may be expecting it in its design to function properly. E.g. electronics with sensitive circuitry or equipment dealing radio frequencies. Yes, neutral is bonded to ground, but I'm thinking it isn't ideal as a voltage reference (ground) due to noise and harmonics.

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

When the neutral is carrying current, its voltage potential is not the same as the ground wire (which by design only carries current when there's a hot-ground short). Which means that the neutral is on "top" of a 60 cycle hum relative to the dirt. With sensitive equipment (radio, amplifiers, or things subject to damage from static electricity), you really want to be able to firmly plant the chassis and other metal non-electrical parts at the nice quiet ground to help get rid of the hum.

[@darkwinter6028]

Which is why some devices have a separate ground connection on the case.

[@user-fr3hy9uh6y]

I once provided a shield ground to a screen room in a large building. Later I found a large current running through it. Somewhere else in the building there was a fault placing a current through the shield ground. Luckily no one was hurt.

[@kenbrown2808]

no equipment listed for use in the US should have a connection between the neutral and the ground. some electronics may have RF shielding connected to ground, which is a different matter.

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

@@kenbrown2808 I agree whole-heartedly with your first sentence, and it applies to Canada (CEC) as well. This extends to panels used as subpanels - the subpanel MUST have it's neutral-ground bonding strap *removed*. There's a particularly heinous bit of electrical nastiness if you violate this. If you have the neutral and ground wire attached in more than one place, under certain conditions, it forms a ground loop (the neutral wire will have a slightly different potential due to current flow hence it's going to flow thru the ground wire). The consequences are continuous current in the ground wire, which it is most definitely not designed for - especially in older systems where the ground wire may be the shield of armored cable, or copper pipe, or tiny wire that can handle a full on short, but overheat and not withstand continuous current just under breaker trip threshold. This can cause the ground/grounding system to corrode and fail, thus preventing your breakers tripping on hot-ground shorts. FYI: a colleague was upgrading a wall in his house from (I think) the 40's or 50's. Not well insulated, but armored cable (some in poor condition) everywhere - the US at the time (and for decades later) permitted the armor to act as a ground. Imagine his horror to find the armor *itself* being too hot to touch and glowing in places when NOTHING on that circuit was turned on. As for the use of "real" grounding in equipment: Not just RF shielding. Transmission and receiving antennas of many types *greatly* improve in efficiency by a real ground (eg: thru coax cable sheath or balanced core centertap). The dirt itself becomes part of the antenna. Not to mention induced hum in audio signal cable between equipment that may not even be on the same circuit, and have neutrals at different potentials.

[@walterbrown8694]

Absolutely - The protection is provided by the device responding to a difference between current in the "Hot" conductor and the Neutral conductor. That "stray" current will be present if a stray current path exists in an external load between the load and an external ground. ( If the external load includes you, and a big toe is stuck in a water faucet which is electrically grounded, the GFCI should open the circuit and save you from electrocution - It will not save you from the embarrassment of getting your toe stuck in the faucet )

[@Krankie_V]

Tell that to all the folks who argued against me and called me dumb for saying the GFCI works without ground 😂

[@EverydayHomeRepairs]

In my book you are Krankie and not dumb 😂

[@dracula3811]

I bet they won't apologize for being wrong here. Btw, i read that chain of posts and i was agreeing with you.

[@Krankie_V]

@@dracula3811 they never do lol they'll just say the video is wrong too 😂😂😂

[@richardmillhousenixon]

@@Krankie_V Ah yes the Alex Jones defense

[@y_zass]

Hey that's nothing, I had someone telling me that you're not supposed to ground GFCI outlets lol

[@vanderpoolfarmsl.l.c.9983]

Great video. I was listening in on a "handy man" radio show a couple of years back and the host stated that A GFCI watched for current on the ground wire. The producer of the show must have caught my email correction as he never spoke to me again even after being a regular contributor!

[@minuteman4199]

Technically he's right. There is different terminology in different jurisdictions. I think people are not using the correct terminology here. There is no "neutral" wire in a house. There is only a neutral wire in three phase systems. The neutral wire carries the unbalanced current between the three phases in a three phase system. In a house with a black wire, a white wire and a bare copper wire, the black wire is the 'Hot" or live, the white is the return path for the current to ground is the "grounded conductor" and the bare copper is the bond. The bond wire is intended to connect the metallic non current carrying components in an electrical assembly to ground - junction boxes, lights and the metallic housings of things plugged into receptacles in the event that something metallic becomes energized. the white wire and the bond wire are connected to each other at the service and connected to grounds - in most houses the water main where it comes into the house.

[@vanderpoolfarmsl.l.c.9983]

@@minuteman4199 Does a GFCI trip if it's ground terminal has current fed to it?

[@okaro6595]

@@minuteman4199 Current never goes to the ground. Yes, the neutral is officially called the grounded conductor but not the ground wire.

[@okaro6595]

@@vanderpoolfarmsl.l.c.9983 You mean voltage and current comes from outside through the ground conductor? No, a GFCI will not detect it. In 2015 a blumper in Finland died as the socket he used was miswired with the live wire connected to the ground terminal. The tool he used had a GFCI but it did nothing to protect him. Here socket testers are required to show voltage on the ground wire because such miswirings are surprisingly common (each of them illegally done)

[@Quietvibes07]

Thank you! I couldn’t figure out why my GFCI tester wasn’t making it trip while testing it.

[@byron2521]

Yeah, I wondered about this. I live in an older home. I had the fuse box upgraded to a proper breaker box about 15 years ago. I also have had to change outlets to GFCI around the bathroom and kitchen sink about 12 years ago. But I still run into issues with DYI electrical issues that I am not always sure if it is O.K. Since it is an older home, at some time (don't know when) extra wiring has been added to handle more modern appliances. One issue is a 30-amp wiring to a large window AC unit. The AC is the only thing on that circuit (nothing else upstream or downstream). However, testing all the outlets I found out that one is not grounded. However, all the normal 15-amp outlets throughout the home are grounded. The AC unit itself has a breaker on the plug (so my understanding is that essentially acts like a GFCI to the unit itself). The outlet has a 3-prong outlet with an open ground. I was not sure if this was safe with no ground. Even though the cord has a breaker, I should still probably install a GFCI to prevent possible elicitation (especially being 30-amp).

[@thebnbaldwin]

I didn't know about the tester not working w/o a ground, thanks. Also, the GFCI has to be installed in the location closest the the breaker in order to protect all outlets upstream.

[@richardberryhill718]

Very informative video! Been a lab tech do-it-yourself for years and never knew about GFCI and grounding! Super to learn!

[@chuckhall5347]

I have never heard of the labels. Great information as always from this channel.

[@johnmunaretta5290]

Your exactly right been saying this for years ground is good but GFCI reads between hot and neutral not ground and will trip if different amps between hot and neutral 5 Mil amps! Back in the day sharing neutral with another phase will not work with GFCI Breaker . Example A Phase pulls 12 amps on its own so Neutral pulls the same 12 amps GFCI WILL NOT TRIP. But if you share Neutral with B phase that pulls 10 amps the Neutral will have 2 amps on it the difference between the two loads , the GFCI sees this as a fault and will trip since A phase hot has 12 amps on it and the Neutral will only have 2 amps since is sharing the 10 amp B phase load

[@JacquiVreeken]

Thanks for the simple explanation. My remaining question is: does one GFCI on each circuit protect any remaining two-prong outlets on the same circuit? Or would each outlet need to be replaced with a GFCI in order to provide that level of protection? Thank you!

[@okaro6595]

The GFCI protects all the outlets in the load side. In fact they are better protected as they are protected also agaist failures that happen inside the box.

[@JorgeHernandez-ib1px]

They are now highly recommending gfci/afci for these scenarios, more safety coverage. I would love to hear you take on that or if you already covered it provide the KZbin link. By the way, great channel.

[@gileon6212]

I immediately subscribed because you answered the question immediately instead of stringing it out

[@robertarnold9815]

In my 175yr old house I use the GFI replacement w/o ground all the time (don't forget the stickers on the downstream outlets too). The only issue with not having the ground is for surge protection strips; there is no path for the surge to go to, so basically useless. The only place I rewired back to the breaker box is where I had electronics (TV, computer, etc.) was going to be "permanently” placed.

[@gloriousapplebees]

Thanks! Great info I'll be using this if a complete rewire is too big of a job.

[@edpowell5754]

From Buffalo, N.Y. Thank You explaining this. It does most certainly help.

[@lawrence8840]

Thanks for the link to the GFCI electric outlet tester, I ordered the one with the LCD display thru your link as well as the Wago connectors which I had been wanting...

[@johnrobinson7336]

My 1961 home in Thousand Oaks had two prong receptacles. Installed GFI's on two wire wiring.

[@randyaivaz3356]

Just Like to add to your good info. Many look at the Hot Leaking or touching to ground as the Cause of Tripping, Neutral touching ground will also cause it to Trip, as Ground would be carrying Current. Hot and Neutral need to Draw Equal, any Difference, then they Trip.

[@PhilFamolaro]

Excellent and very thorough explanation. Thank you.

[@EverydayHomeRepairs]

You bet!

[@jstone1211]

A GFCI receptacle compares the load current to the return current (remember you dont get a current drop you get a voltage drop in a circuit). Think of a series circuit. IF the return current and the source current are not the same you then have a current leak. That means the leak is current going somewhere besides the source...pretty simple if you think about it.

[@ieatleftytears1953]

Thanks. You got my subscription. I have a home built pre1860

[@architectofheaven]

I tried to install a Leviton GFCI in my home - which is wired with old BX and relies on the armor to ground out the metal boxes. In this particular location, a bathroom, some moron had mounted the box flush to the STUD and so there was a layer of drywall and a layer of ceramic tile in front of it ... so the outlet had to float way off the box. Because of this, you couldn't get a reliable ground from contact with the box. My experience is that, in this situation where the GFCI was not connected to ground, the device would not energize ... it would trip as soon as you put power to it and would not reset. I had a box of these GFCIs and tried three different devices and all had the same behavior. In the end, I ran a screw into one of the holes in the back of the metal box, put a ring terminal on a piece of ground wire, and connected that to the ground terminal of the GFCI - problem solved and all worked as expected. So, I think at least some of these devices require a ground connection.

[@FranciscoSilva-ll5uh]

Thank You for the explanation. You are the man to talk too

[@XTeCnOX]

This was a GREAT VIDEO! with all the details needed on this subject. Thank you very much for your service!

[@mpdonn317130]

Great info. You are my go-to channel for electrical questions. Well-deserved subscription! MD

[@glenmartin2437]

Thank you. A good reminder. In Florida, roughly half the GFCI's have to be replaced within in a year or two due to abundant lightning strikes.

[@danielleg2616]

Very clear explanation. Do i need to ground my whole house or gfci in garage outlet?

[@margaritam8140]

I have a ridiculous situation here. We have an old house in Pittsburgh probably 110 years old and i really love learning about all things electrical and feel i totally missed my calling so thank you for all your informative videos! ANYWAY, I popped open an old outlet here with what looked like a ground wire BUT some sneaky SOB 😸 had simply ran a copper wire from that outlet to another outlet directly on the other side of that wall. Now, I'm wondering if i should do the same with the GFCI outlets I'm about to install or if i should completely just yank that "wanna-be ground wire" out of the wall? Will it even serve any purpose? Everytime i think I've seen it all in this house, i find something new to shock and awe 😸. Hopefully not shock, literally though 😹. Thank you again!!!

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

That wannabe ground was likely legal when it was done, but it was usually done to a water pipe. Code has changed, in part because plastic pipe is so common even in Reno’s. The only way to be sure is to ask a local inspector, who’ll likely say leave it alone, just don’t do any more. Do NOT do it with the gfci outlets, it’s totally unnecessary. Once an outlet is protected by a GFCI the only reason to have a real ground is to provide a quiet ground reference for high end audio equipment or amateur radio.

[@jasrak221]

I have a perplexing issue, I have an older home without a ground wire so it blows fuses. I placed at least 1 gfci outlet in each room to isolate anything overloading the circuit. the green normal light on the outlet glows on all of them and the red blinking light blinks on all to show they are working. Now the outlets I am using are 15 amp the fuse is 20 amp but the the fuse still blows and doesn't trip the outlets. yes 20 amp fuse blows before the 15amp outlets trip. and there is 3 outlets between the devices in the kitchen and the fuse. I bought these on amazon. oh and when you physically trip the outlets using the button each one trips like it should.

[@davidlyle9645]

Great Info! Clarity is paramount!!

[@mrmaddocs68752]

I plugged in a Fluke ST120+ outlet tester into a 20 year old GFCI and when I hit the GFCI test button the GFCI tripped GFCI Outlets last a lot longer than you think

[@koryabel6319]

Great video just want to say that first and foremost. An inspector or engineer would say a hot to ground scenario is not a short it’s a ground fault. A short is hot to hot OR hot to neutral. However, I’m a field guy so I’d say that’s bulls***. Thank you for this video and nice for explaining the plug tester not tripping if there’s no EGC. Cheers mate!

[@ChaJ67]

There seems to be two points here for why people didn't answer your question the with the 'right' answer just as some of my college professors went about things: 1. People don't understand how GFCI works. So you explain it can work without a ground wire. So some people answer it 'wrong' because they don't understand. 2. People who do understand how GFCI works see that you can't properly test your GFCI. If you can't test it, then how do you know it works? So somebody may correctly know the theory and still say it is not safe due to the testing issue and so with multiple choice mark the same answer as those who don't know how it works. Do you know how many times I have seen something untested fail to work? I am sure I am not alone in that. This is when I would get something 'wrong' in college is I knew the 'right' answer was a less than ideal way. I still got through college. Just learned with those particular instructors what they thought the 'right' answers should be and marked as such to make them happy. Then in real life people keep saying that I over engineer things, but my stuff doesn't break when their stuff does, so is it really over engineering or just what it took to really get it right? At that, do you know how many times there was some oversight and things broke anyway, causing me to go back to the drawing board and re-engineer things? Just "over engineering" it as people say I do from the get go saves a lot down the road in not having to redo it later. With GFCI, I would say just spend up front to get that ground wire connected and then only install GFCI where it is required by code. It actually gets in the way if say you need to plug in your TV and you plug your TV into a surge protector so it doesn't get fried by a power surge as the surge protector will dump excess power to ground, creating a differential between hot and neutral that will trip your GFCI. Common utility power is commonly surgy enough to cause a GFCI to trip multiple times a day when setup like this. But with no ground hookup, this cannot work. And say the hot wire on your toaster oven comes lose, making contact with the metal case while plugged into a GFCI outlet. Normally the fault current should come back over the ground wire and either trip the breaker or with GFCI, the GFCI should trip first. But with no ground hookup, the surface is energized until you start having the power flow through your body and hopefully trip the GFCI that you are not able to test to see if it actually works or not. That sounds more like you cut corners as opposed to "over engineering" to make to make it as safe as it is supposed to be.

[@Tunaslayer1]

That is great way to save money when you know which outlet is #1 in a circuit. But I have heard of the GFCI with Arc fault circuit breakers. My question, is do they make either the GFCI or GFCI with arc fault for older style panels that have no grounds?

[@IT__Security]

I wanted to get a 40amp GFCI with Arc fault protection also. I could only find GFCI/Arc fault combined breaker up to 20amp.

[@tuckerthebana9559]

Those breakers only ever have a hot and neutral connected to them so you dont need anything fancy.

[@kenbrown2808]

panels that are functionally obsolete, like Zinsco, Federal Pacific, and Pushmatic do not have AFCI breakers available, but in some cases, you can install electrical boxes under the panel and install dead face AFCI/GFCI devices. - although you should be considering changing out the panel, with panels that old.

[@Nick-bh1fy]

@@IT__Security what do u need a 40A GFCI/AFCI breaker for?

[@Nick-bh1fy]

@@IT__Security ah ok was just curious what load would require that, makes sense

[@EthanSanders]

It's also code acceptable to install GFCI breakers for your plug circuits to upgrade 2-prong to 3-prong receptacles. You also need to appropriately label the covers as you showed. The code is written loosely enough to allow for this.

[@randyaivaz3356]

Never heard That. Can't see how that would Work with only 2 Wires, and need to Draw Equal. Which code is it? If Acceptable, would like to know, Thanks

[@EthanSanders]

@@randyaivaz3356 406.4 (D)(2)(c) 406.4 - General Installation Requirements (D) Replacements (2) Non-Grounding-Type Receptacles (c) A non-grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Where grounding-type receptacles are supplied though the ground-fault circuit interrupter, grounding-type receptacles or their cover plates shall be marked "GFCI Protected" and "No Equipment Ground" visible after installation. An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.

[@ramy.ib10]

great video but i have two things i need clarification on: 1. in the moment that you touch an energized appliance, and you become part of the circuit, the ungrounded GFCI outlet will trip. It takes a fraction of a second to trip. It also takes a little bit of time for electricity to finish flowing between the outlet and the unintended ground. So in that brief period of time between touching the appliance and the electricity flow finishing, you will get shocked, no? Won't you feel at least even a zap? Would this zap be more impactful on children? 2. why do we need to label an ungrounded GFCI outlet "No equipment ground" if it's "safe" for use with three-prong appliances?

[@markb.1259]

HOPEFULLY.... this video will inspire home owners of older homes, to install GFCI's!!!

[@chrisunderwood4865]

Good info here.Thanks.

[@ItchyKneeSon]

A friend of mine bought an old house with ungrounded outlets. He's physically feeling current, or is hearing buzzing, on a number of his devices/appliances (including a $10k+ pinball machine). What's your suggested plan of attack? a) have it rewired with 12-2/14-2 Romex b) install GFCI's on the first outlet of each run c) run dedicated grounds to affected appliances or in various areas of the house d) have an electrician address the situation e) do a combination of any of the above f) something else I may be missing or unaware of Thanks in advance.

[@mikeallen6317]

Thank you for all your very informative clips and outstanding presentations. I did use your Amazon link to order several of your recommended tools.🔌

[@heathenthatheretic5960]

A GFCI should trip regardless if there is a ground wire or not! Nevertheless, you should still ground it even though it's technically grounded when you screw it to a EMT box.

[@tek4]

If the box has emt properly installed, and is rated to be grounded threw the tab (its where there is a brass insert that the screw crushes down on) then yes, you don't need a extra wire. In many places residential applications would mean that emt is not used in favor of non metallic sheethed wire, eg romex.

[@heathenthatheretic5960]

@@tek4 and this is why you always have to pull a gound wire 🤙🏾

[@UntouchedWagons]

There's a Technology Connections video that goes into detail about how GFCIs work that's quite good.

[@arthurfricchione8119]

Great info. Your channel is very informative. I have taken home electric courses and I’m a Diyer so everything you share is very helpful. Thanks for sharing your knowledge 😊 Artie

[@rogersmith6515]

There's a semantics issue with your question. GFCI outlets have nothing to do with the grounding system of your home and therefore, despite the name, they don't actually provide "ground" fault protection. What would have been more accurate is if the inventor called them NFCI as they're actually neutral fault protection. Yes, the ground and the neutral are ultimately going to the same place, however, they aren't exactly the same thing. The neutral wiring is an isolated and insulated return path to the panel and is safe for constant electrical flow. The ground wiring is broadly connected (including to parts of an appliance that shouldn't ever be powered) and is not insulated and is not safe to ever have power except to in that rare moment it's needed. Ultimately, yes a GFCI outlet provides superior protection to standard grounding. This is the reason why they are required in wet areas of the home where you're more likely to have problems. In the time it takes for a standard grounded breaker to trip at your panel, you could be dead. If it wasn't for the cost, code would require every circuit in your home to have this and arc fault protection as well.

[@thomasmarable6818]

You mean its not going to the grounded conductor, is that what you are saying

[@millomweb]

I'd call them an 'Unauthorised path device' - where an electrical current is using a path it's not authorised to take ! He's wrong with his 'yes' to the original question. Without the ground connection (if not obvious it's via the neutral wire - which is connected to ground elsewhere) the GFCI would not trip - but neither would it need to as a ground circuit could not be made.

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

It depends on what you mean by "ground fault". If the fault is you standing in your bare feet on a concrete slab, or touch metal siding, or copper pipe, and touching the hot *you* are the ground fault, and the GFCI will trip. The terminology has nothing to do with the ground wire, it is about detecting the most common reason for you getting zapped - you providing the ground path.

[@okaro6595]

Ground fault means current escapes to the ground. It has no direct connection to the grounding wire though it can of course be one possible path it escapes. (and likely the list common on case if a tripping). The thing that GFCIs are designed is the current escaping through a person.

[@brianharmeson3144]

You are thinking about it backwards. It does sense ground faults, but it does so by measuring the current on the neutral. So it measures the difference any time there is current going to ground instead of back on the neutral. If current goes to ground (ground fault) instead of back on the neutral, it will trip. Thus ground fault protection.

[@luminousfractal420]

Cheers. Ive got one that has a load output on the back, but only had two wire inputs for that outlet, didnt seem right. Didnt know if i had to short the input ground to load ground.

[@phunkyzilla]

Very interesting video. I woulda been a part of the 66% but now I’m the 33% who know better. Thankyou!

[@charleswilson4598]

Here is my situation. I recently lost power to three bedriooms. I found a burnt receptacle in BR#1 which powered a window airconditioner. And I found out that all three bedrooms were powered from one ckt breaker. I checked the outlets in all three bedrooms with an electrical outletr tester, and found that all the outlets were correctly wired except one in the 1st BR, which was missing a ground. I assume that all the outlets in the three bedrooms are wired in series. But now I have the problem of providing a ground wire to the missing ground outlet. I would like to put each bedroom on its own breaker and connect a ground wire to the missing outlet, but for now, as a temporary fix I plan to install a gfci outlet in the location with the missing ground.

[@sminthian]

You should be focusing on that 5% of people that admitted they don't know what a GFCI is. I'm guessing at least another 20% should be in the category, and just guessed instead.

[@davidkahler9390]

Forget the topic of the video, what is dangling to your right?

[@glennrudolph9867]

Can you explain what a grounded GFCI gets you in terms of additional safety if it already handles ground and short circuit faults? Or what does no equipment ground mean in terms of “caution”… this has no ground?

[@okaro6595]

Grounding, especially with a GFCI, mean the circuit will cut the power immediately in case of failure. Without the ground it may require that someone touches it. Also the GFCI is a device that in itself can fail. In this case the grounding still works as a protection. If you read the comments above there was a special case of metal box that is ungrounded. Because a GFCI can protect only on faults that happen after it there is a situation where a fault could cause the electricity to come through the ground wire to the case. The GFCI on the socket does not protect against this (A GFCI upstream would). In this case a proper grounding does protect. The general rule of safety features is that they supplement each other instead of replacing older ones. This way use three prong outlets with a GFCI is an exception allowed for cost reasons. The main purpose of the sticker is to tell anyone testing the outlet that lack of ground is not a failure condition but something expected. Most average users will not need the information. Grounding has also functions in preventing interference and protecting equipment. These are secondary.

[@Cotronixco]

If you lose your neutral, the GFCI will be inoperative and the ground will still protect you.

[@okaro6595]

The label tells anyone testing the outlet that open ground is not a fault.

[@garbo8962]

All residential GFCI receptacle & circuit breakers just measure a current imbalance between the black energised wire and the now called grounded conductor and nor a neutral. If one side draws 4 to 6 million is more then the other wire it will trip. About 5 years ago the made GFCI receptacle manufacturers program a self tester to check it at least think its once every 10 seconds and a self test to make sure black hot & white wires are not reversed. Installed about 19 GFCI receptacles thru out my house over 35 years ago and only two went bad in that time. I do test them every few months but not the recommended every 30 days like instructions mention. Like the newer GFCI receptacles that have a green or amber miniature LED to let you know power is on. Have them in my bathroons.

[@chleprince1894]

Hi I have additional question: My old house has the "knob and tube" electricals with 2 wires that are not color coded.. How do I tell which is live/neutral? Thanks in advance!

[@EverydayHomeRepairs]

I use a non-contact voltage tester and test each of the wires the wire that sets off the voltage tester is the hot wire.

[@chleprince1894]

@@EverydayHomeRepairs I’ll try that. Thanks so much!

[@integr8er66]

@@chleprince1894 Use a volt meter to a cold water pipe if its plumed in copper, or run a wire back to the neutral in the service panel and measure from that to each wire, only one will show voltage, thats your hot wire.

[@millomweb]

Neutral is the one connected to ground more than the other one. If neither is connected, then it TOTALLY does not matter !

[@dracula3811]

If at all possible, i highly recommend saving up and planning for a rewire of your house.