Does League Have Too Many Champions? | League of Legends

[@dariel4122]

If Riot could take a year or two dedicated to reworking old champs and realising one new champ for the role that needs it the most that would be amazing.

[@Shahdaddana]

They wouldn't, cuz reworking dont sell skins, quite the oposite. Its an effort to rework skins that are already bought

[@unicorn7234]

@@Shahdaddana IMO it could work because a champion rework could sell old skins that no one buys.

[@skayles4716]

@@Shahdaddana Actually, reworks not making money has been stated by Riot as a huge misconception. There are _a lot_ of newer ( and older ) players in League that never bought old champions skins either because the champ isn't interesting or the skin isn't that good. A nice rework putting a champion on the spotlight can create as much revenue as a new champion. That plus post-rework newer skins might sell better thanks to shinier graphics.

[@thesololelveler]

@@Shahdaddana It does sell more skins by making the champ seem better and a vfx update.

[@Juanmaligno]

Or make certain dying roles more useful

[@MAMAJUGO]

I wouldn't mind so many champions if Riot at least allowed the capability to check full ability numbers and descriptions for every champion ability in the client itself, without having to own the champion first and jump to a practice lobby. I mean, you can check exactly what every item and every rune does in the client itself, why not champions?

[@raistlinmajere1000]

Something like Smite, but not with so much text.

[@danha3107]

literally this. As a new player a year ago, I strongly wished for this since it helps with learning what to max, what to use in which situations, how well the champ scales, etc. It lessens the time it takes to get into game and have some fun with the champ cause you can better know exactly what they do and waste less time in game reading. The feature was so nice in Vainglory

[@thomasb5307]

Reading champions abilities on external websites (like MobaFire) is actually better since it directly gives you the scaling ratios. I'm not saying that having to rely on external websites is good design, but I am saying that complaining about not having access to complete data as a player is straight up not true.

[@MAMAJUGO]

@@thomasb5307 so does lol if you press the Shift key while reading an ability ingame The ratios are already displayed in the game, just not in the client

[@GubbiGap]

Yes! I couldn't have said it better myself!

[@armaleon8394]

​I like having more champions as long as their playstyle is unique and not a better version of an existing champion.

[@squidypo7726]

*cough* Seraphine/Sona *cough*

[@milkncookies8777]

I like that you didn't even mention the name of the champion but what you said was so specific to the point that everyone knows who it is xD

[@tripleD2301]

Cough, Soraphina...

[@vonb2792]

So true but after 156 champions there is a limit to "newness" since every champs must fit the "meta" (game plan of Riot)

[@Edian23]

@@vonb2792 there have been similar abilities in some champs kits ( 3 hit passive ) but having a literl kit update on another champ is waaaaaay to much, seraphine has a kit that would fit a VGU for sona

[@jacquelynthompson5346]

After maining Janna for so long, whenever there is a picture depicting all the champions like this one, my eyes go straight to her.

[@longstar5001]

Heheh what a simp

[@VarsVerum]

Now that you mention it, she does stand out with her white hair and fair skin compared to the dark tones of a lot of league champs! That and she's smack dab in the middle XD

[@josephwilliams1459]

@@VarsVerum I'm blind so I read thst yoi think Janna is a snsck and then you dsbbed. I like that version better 👌

[@NOWNVATTU]

I know she's my main too

[@Pinheader]

Do you watch paint dry in your spare time too ??

[@someonline]

i’m a big fan of this channel. someone who actually takes a step back to look at the game’s health along with reasons for various issues in the game coupled with solutions or ways to mitigate them. the world of league is just really toxic and condescending because no points can come across unless you’re superior to the person you’re speaking to because they’ll just say “ok [rank/champ] player”. vars is underrated

[@VarsVerum]

Thank you!

[@jerrypie1230]

it's so dumb that your rank determines everything. you can be bad at a game and still have valid opinions about it, or maybe even an overall better understanding of the game from an outside perspective than someone who's really good at the games mechanics lol

[@soccerdude9784]

@@jerrypie1230 Yeah, you can learn from lower skilled players and I know I do on Vars' discord. But so many people have a fat fragile ego, to them there's no way you could teach them. The other problem is tonality. Everyone is defensive because we assume people are condescending when giving constructive criticism.

[@kcStranger]

I don't really disagree with anything you said, but I think the biggest point you left out is what the huge roster does to the new player experience. It's ridiculously daunting for a new player to reach the point where they have a basic understanding of what each champion does, and even then it's easy to lose value to not understanding tiny details like ability cooldowns and passive bonuses.

[@mohamedabdullahi3914]

This point doesn't really make sense, when you consider that many started to play the game around 2013 and forward. When I first started the rosters of champions had more than 110-20+ (I can't remember). Furthermore, guides, streamer, tips and tricks etc. make it a lot easier for a player to learn quicker.

[@bilalkawsara9539]

@@mohamedabdullahi3914 Thank you for sharing your experience with it. I played in 2014-2017 and now i recently started back. I am not enjoying the game very much due to the fact that it's always some crazy op person on their team with powers i don't understand, or some crazy op person on my team who's powers i don't understand. I guess it's just a bit weird and unusual to expect players to have to study the top 50 most played champions to be able to play decently. Makes casual 4-5 hours a week players kinda have no idea what's going on.

[@guillguill5040]

omg this, i just start lol and it might make me stop

[@κωνσταντινακουτη-μ7σ]

I started playing Wild rift and after a while I became familiar with the game and had so so so much fun. So my friends told me to download league of legends and play there... Boy.... Not only I don't know more than half the champions, but also I feel so bad because, even though I know some basic stuff (what is happening,the roles, map awareness etc), I feel like I know NOTHING (and end up not wanting to play). It's good to have many options, but for new players, it truly can become overwhelming

[@AnyaShortcake]

Yeah no I understand completely! I only started playing league back in 2019 and the first champion i learned to play and loved was well Yuumi. Her flaws are there yes but it helps me have fun and also absorb the whole game and how it should be played. From the macro, map awareness,pinging. It took me a long time to even know how to ping and what settings to use.

[@AnyaShortcake]

But i realy enjoy the game and I'm really sad about how much its hated qwq

[@JDReC100]

@@AnyaShortcake if you ever try jungle, Warwick is a good first time champ for that role. lifesteal, damage reduction, and a passive that kinda shows where low health champs are. also, keep on keeping on with your Yuumi. I get why people dont like her, but i know she's much harder to play properly than people think.

[@AnyaShortcake]

@@JDReC100 yeah! I do use other supports now like morgana, leona, soraka, lulu etc but yuumi is like a comfort pick when the emeny comp doesn't have alot of cc :3

[@woodykalahoy5659]

Then switch to DOTA Goodluck ahaha

[@taekeverbree7568]

I think riot should make a rework year. A year in which no new champions get onto the rift and for example 10 champs get reworked.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

They've done that before. Remember when they mass-reworked by classes instead of individual champions? It's the day many LeBlanc mains bitched about their rework lmao what a fine day it was in midlane.

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

"There is too much wrong with the game" That's an understatement, my friend

[@thomasalberto613]

I swear if the game's animations and fluid gameplay weren't the best, I'd given up on this shit long ago

[@thec-yb6ug]

@@thomasalberto613 there is too much put on cheesy picks and tactics think that made the game really toxic

[@Solarix1991]

I'd say there's another downside to having such a large amount of champions. The learning curve is already pretty high and every additional champion means that you need to play several more games to learn what they do, how they affect the entire match, how they interact with your champion(s), and your team. For older players, it's easier to keep up. For newer players, the "minimum time invested" becomes more and more to the point where it might take literal months to years worth of gameplay to be 'caught up' basically. I started playing in December 2019, and STILL there are champions of which I don't know how to play against them. Combine that with rapidly shifting item metas and constant buffs and nerfs that can even change where champions are being played, and it becomes just increasingly complicated to learn the game.

[@jcnot9712]

Lmao I laughed when you said “room temperature IQ” in that deadpan voice.

[@drewblackmatter6669]

Yes and it needs to fix the old champs rather than add new ones all the time

[@daniellincoln3744]

I love me Skarner 💖

[@TeraHammer]

I see the wisdom in that.

[@12ww37]

Wise words from Skarner

[@Wowthatsfunnylol121]

Your channel is honestly such a gem and I love the way you analyze and summarize problems in this game we all love.

[@VarsVerum]

Thank you! I appreciate it

[@callmeandoru2627]

Imagine someone started playing league right when a champion is reworked and just look at the champion guides on KZbin and the champion in-game and be like: Wait are these two the same champion?

[@knuthai1931]

That actually happend to me with fiddle xD Not exactly guides, I just heared ge Would be so annoing but useless in teamfights, and I just See That ult and W

[@riahsaonirit2650]

Wukong's mini-rework is one of the best reworks I've ever seen. Riot needs to the same with other old champions before releasing another buggy new champion that will sit on "disabled for esport matches" for 10 months.

[@pedrofederico951]

Want to sell Cho Gath skins? Rework him into a void tyrannosaurus

[@TheAzorg]

Laughs in Tyranid

[@xxscrublordxxx5652]

@@calmgentleman y'all weak

[@jamiesadf5829]

Cho'gath is so far from needing a rework. His kit is good as it is, and visually, most of his skins are fine.

[@kelzhikaru]

@@jamiesadf5829 just update his passive to % max HP and Mana and it's all good tho.

[@BittenKitten]

@@jamiesadf5829 Maybe the base model because not everyone has the money to buy skins, the hair of Gwen has mor polygons than cho’s entire body

[@hideyochest8964]

In my opinion, one of the greatest flaws in League’s giant character roster is that they’ve put too much emphasis on the map to have the creative freedom to create unique mechanics for new character additions. Simply put, a bunch of map objectives with varying game impact forces champs to be built around the map rather than the champs built around their own mechanics. This isn’t inherently a bad thing, but this means that new champ inclusions become less necessary than new map additions. To exemplify this point, we can look at Heroes of the Storm. Their character variety is out the fucking weeds compared to League’s and it’s because their characters don’t have near as much stuff on the map to worry about compared to League. I think League has too many characters because their game, on a gameplay level, simply isn’t built well to emphasize character inclusion.

[@Greenbakugan]

you know its bad when my boy, yorick, is being compared with alkali with how much he is cared for.

[@adriano_cruciani]

Same with Aatrox, what did he do wrong to be compared to akali and eve :(

[@Greenbakugan]

@@adriano_cruciani early season 11 goredrinker. I agree its not *That* bad, but that was still pretty overpowered.

[@adriano_cruciani]

@@Greenbakugan yes that heal for him and Olaf was disgusting that's true, but why nerf both the item and the champion itself, i didn't see a single Aatrox since the nerfs

[@isaiahjohnson9786]

@@adriano_cruciani after rework he got like 50 balance changes and removed like half his kit(omnivamp vs minions/monsters grievous wounds on shields and heals on passive revive on ult 2 charges on e e giving ad omnivamp being on passive) and more

[@Greenbakugan]

@@adriano_cruciani true.

[@angelskins]

yes. would rather have reworks over new champions.

[@MAMAJUGO]

11:35 I'd say it's not really that much of an issue in dota 2, mainly because that game is focused for the most part on counterplay, so that every champ is viable as a counter for someone else, plus in every big annual patch they give every champ, even the oldest ones, tailor made new toys to play with, like the talent trees and agh's upgrades that unlock new spells, so there are always new ways to play old favs

[@tsv4242]

not to mention items, you can hard counter enemy champions with the correct items even if your champion is overall weak in that matchup

[@MrLuzakman]

I see Kled on thumb I click

[@Houndfluff]

dont you love Having your eyes draw to lux's FOREHEAD

[@cryptocorynes1253]

As bright as her ultimate

[@suwako2976]

Girls with big foreheads get me weak 😍😩

[@pianopride212]

Worst splash art in the game

[@Ryan_nguyen07]

@@pianopride212 amumu: Exists*

[@juanpanasonio9050]

yes i do. problem?

[@Senpai-Choco]

Yes in terms of balance and relevancy, but at the same time a lot of choices to make in helping ppl find what play suits them best

[@Ichigoeki]

Hearing this it really makes me feel like ARAM is a completely different game altogether, a place where you're almost forced to play and also face a larger part of the full champ roster and all.

[@waleedkhalid7486]

Something you don’t mention is that new players are overwhelmed by how many champions there are. For veterans, even if we take a break, we have played enough games to get a feel for a champ (aphelios is still a mystery to me though) even if we’ve never played them. A new player has to learn thier champ and their allies champs and thier opponents champs. This is why LoL takes about a year to learn to play if you play up to 5 games a day. The time investment is insane, akin to an MMORPG. Of course a player could pick a champ they like the look of and stick with it, but this ignores the fact that some people do better with certain champs than others. I know that I am more of a control mage player than an assassin player. Give me a control mage and I’ll pick them up fairly quickly. Give me and assassin and I’ll struggle. However, this took me years to learn. I played for long enough that I’ve tried every play style and many iterations of each so I know what I am good at. A new player will be overwhelmed and may never try to get better due to how LoL players are essentially punished for having bad teammates. The system is so reminiscent of typical Chinese video game ownership styles that are on display in the MMO genre: don’t worry about new players, keep the existing players happy and paying. They focus on the whales to the detriment of everyone else. It’s why so many champs are released too strong. The devs are likely told to not bother testing a champ properly and To instead focus on animating their skins.

[@edgarasjokubauskas629]

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes on the "give old champions the fiddlesticks treatment" idea.

[@DiosChotil]

League has many more problems that need adressing, but the overabundance of characters is up there. Every time me and my friends start a game we always look at the enemy team in disgust because of the champs they have selected, because we know we are not gonna be capable of doing anything against them if they play decently let alone are very good, and that considering we have already banned the worst of the worst. But thats what the game is about, beating the other team results in them being miserable, the same as when I get constantly beaten by the other team in a game I am miserable. Its the goal of the game.

[@abekaessel3282]

it’s sad that qiyanas getting nerfed right after seeing some pro play this weekend like riot hates the idea of a new champ being seen yet kaisa, udyr and renekton are picked or banned almost every game

[@richyhu2042]

To add on to your point that Riot doesn't seem to pay attention as to what happens when they add new champions, in their Dev Doodles for Sylas, they straight up say they "don't want to have to check if Sylas's ult interacts with the new champ in the correct way" and that if they have to make a check then they "have failed in design". I think that is a HUGE clue as to Riot's mentality towards this stuff.

[@thekirbycrafter7229]

You might be misinterpreting that line. I believe its more about the code that they implemented for sylas and hoping that it's algorithm will always pull the ult correctly, and less about being lazy or busy.

[@xinzar7511]

honestly, i really still dont get why a person cant have 2 bans at this point. yes, i know, yasuo, yone, zed, darius ect will be permabanned but i feel like thats a good thing cause one tricks arent a thing anymore. like for goodness sake, there are 130+ champs available to you nontheless, so i dont see the issue.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

I twotrick Camille and Aatrox. I would appreciate it if I get to play atleast one of them, not to mention both get cucked by Bramble Vest and Malphite.

[@gabrielkolim]

Vars: likes dogs and cats, chill piano music only. Just the best lol channel, right? 💓

[@chenji8070]

11:35 the key difference between LoL and DotA2 depending that topic is, that for every hero in DotA2, you have at least one item that counters said hero. and most importantly its not a mater of "hmm, they got Malzahar i should build a QSS as a mage". lets take Antimage (DotA2) as an example, one of the best lategame carrys (you could compare him to Kassadin, if you want): as a Support you can go for an Aeon Disc dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Aeon_Disk or a Linkens Sphere dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Linken%27s_Sphere to save either yourself or even a teammate. as a carry or tank you could simply go for a BKB dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Black_King_Bar . as a mage a Scythe of Vyse dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Scythe_of_Vyse does the trick. the only items that counter surten mechanics in League are the ones with grievous wounds for antiheal, items with Quicksilver active against hard cc and Randuins Omen against crit. but said items are not equalli viable on every champ. yes: Zhonyas and spellshield items exist, but they are either used to sustain burst (Zhonyas) or to get into the fight without being CC locked to death before doing anything (spellshields). my personal problem with Zhonyas is that your enemys either die untill its effect wears off, or you get bursted to death by the enemys that were able to wait 2.5 seconds. spellshields are even worse imo, i really liked the old Edge of Night where teh effect was active, even when it had a short channel time, that way i could decide if i wanted to block the Xerath Q and get stuned afterwards, or block the stun of his E. if Riot implemented more items with active abilities to counter anoying bs or mechanics, they could throw as many champs as they want at the players, as long as there is an item to hardcounter them, its no big deal. a good example would be if Mikaels Blessing were able to cleanse Darius bleeding effect off an ally. i dont even ask for stuff that would be overpowered like a Glimmer Cape dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Glimmer_Cape for LoL, so a supp could make his adc invisible, but at least a few more active items to hardcounter surten champs were great.

[@distraction2803]

I started the game relatively recently, just before season 11, and I can safely say "too many champions" is the least of League's problems. As a moba player it took 5-7 days to get roughly acquainted with all the characters, which isn't bad. But the amount of things that are unconditionally bad design continues to surprise me. This is supposed to be one of the biggest games on the planet; you'd think the client would be better than a pirated Chinese WoW rip-off.

[@TenkoSekka]

i love that you're using octopath traveler music in the background

[@void2258]

They need to break from doing new champs and address core issues with the game, the matchmaking, the ranking, the map, the client, and many other systems, not just with outdated champs. League (and WR) have developed into a borderline hostile play experience for non-pros or streamers, and RIOT has not shown average players any indication they even seen the issues causing mass exodus from the lower ranks. Nevermind a sign that anything will be done to address any issue that does not effect pro play, or even that they will address issues that would change anything key to the game, lest it effect pro play.

[@brainsmusic6119]

Octopath Traveller music, good choice

[@Grayard]

👏👏👏👏👏 the quality just keeps improving. Good job and thank you very much, you did a great job 👏

[@LordSeth-hf8ew]

Since my real return/1st time real playing this game for a long time playing and figuring out who I like and don't is probably my favourite part of league, the moment when a champion clicks and you understand that part you have been missing is dope

[@ShivguruRao]

You made a good point about it being a problem in all MOBAs. Dota 2 tackles this by giving players freedom with playstyle innovation. If someone counter picks your lane, there will be either a champ that can swap lanes with you on your team or you can just choose to play safe for a bit and they go jungle as the jungle in that game is huge and it can support multiple players. League (though I love it more than Dota) sometimes feel one-dimensional, as a top laner if I am counter-picked and trashed in the lane, I have nowhere else to go as the resources are very scarce. My suggestion would be to change the things on the map so it accommodates different play style and incentivise the innovative approaches to different champs.

[@Mavuika_Gyaru]

We have too many champions but only like 20 ever gets played

[@TheElitedeath]

Yeah if you compare LoL tournament statistics to other mobas like Dota, it seems pretty bad. As far as I'm aware I heard the last big Dota tournament had almost every single champion picked at least once.

[@nightscribenyx]

@@TheElitedeath yeah I don't think dota has added many champions over time if any at all as they seem to be more focused on keeping what they have already balanced, instead of LoL's idea of releasing new champs all the time

[@justincavaliere1361]

That's sort of the point he makes in the video. Only like 1/4 of the characters are played because they're objectively better than the other 3/4.

[@Kaneiara]

@@nightscribenyx plus league has lore based hence the amount of champ release as compare to dota its not lore based as much

[@Jvstm]

@@shashank270502 So what you're saying is that I'm right because there are w40 champions so you play about 25%. Thank you for backing up my correctness.

[@wer3eng760]

I love your background music selection, in general.

[@VarsVerum]

Glad you like it!

[@pmathewizard]

Fixing the client plus reworking champions.

[@Martin-yh7vi]

And I thought the client would be fixed when they reworked it during season 5-6.

[@pmathewizard]

But everything changed when sylas was introduced.

[@hamakieatingnuggets4862]

tbf the client and champions are two different aspects of the game and therefore have each of their own departments too

[@violaberry413]

9:20 god damn, that combo tho

[@JusticeOfRider]

The two Ionian brothers came in clutch there ngl

[@felipearango4257]

There's a principle of design that talks about a ship that sunk because it had too much shit in it. More /= better, you also have to considere the extra work for each new champ, learning to read the stadistics, balancing, reworking, modeling skins and animations, etc. It's impossible to distribute man force equally through all the champs unless you spend money on hiring more people, and that will become an endless cycle.

[@jeremysun9697]

The answer is yes

[@angelskins]

period

[@papiagua]

No

[@fernandorios2764]

No

[@elbulbocaminante9138]

Hope a lot of people understand what you put over the table, love your channel and your style, keep it up.

[@ggwp638BC]

From a gameplay perspective, the best solution for League would be a rotation system. We could have trimestral rotations, in which they could add a fixed number of available champions. This could either be done by (1) creating themes for each rotation, i.e making a faster and cutthroat meta by focusing on squish champions with high DPS; that could create some really interesting metas and allow for some types of gameplay to be prioritized, like allowing a healthier meta for Artillery champions, which wouldn't be so impactful since it's just temporary. The problem here is that if you're the guy who loves hyper mobile class cannon assassins you will hate playing on a tank or artillery rotation, and vise-versa, meaning a portion of the community will always be mad, and since popularity brings money, if you happen to like a certain unpopular playstyle get ready to never seen it again. (2) would be to just pick an X number of champions from each role without any theme, and while this is fairer, it's to be expected that popular and new champions with expensive skins would be on the rotation every rotation, while Asol gets unofficially perma deleted.

[@jonasnoblet6200]

good content - I enjoy the tone and the subjects you're treating

[@iikyutaii7954]

I think the commun ground for every game is, there is too many when: 1- the new ones outshine every other one in most everyway possible (works for pve games as well, dont be able to play the champ u loved cause only the new one can make with efficiency the new content is trash development) 2- when the new characters slowly starting to make the experience more overwhelming than enjoyable, and I know its subjective, but as long as i love Viego and wanted to make it my main, the fact that is ban in pro says everything... 3- and lastely when they cant make place to them in the lore anymore, again, works for pve as well, new race of champions cool, but why when where, a vidéo game its not an interactive cofee machine, it brings stories and feelings. And I think its an everything. We cant set a nomber by gender, every game as his own story, i think the limit is relative and cross when the rupture is to big, either u slow down and keep ur game as it is, either u turn over and embrace this new direction even if yes all the old fan will uninstall, but vision is everything. And stay true to that vision is important.

[@kulovicz3152]

Using Jenga logic, Riot should rebuild the whole tower. Not just reshuffling few blocks by for example item rework, but actually filling gaps by champion reworks.

[@Ven_detta_]

6:26 I like how you didn't feel the need to runback on the pokemon joke, but did for the dog/cat joke

[@Beans113]

I remember around season 4 where I thought “ they could just focus on champion updates / remakes and the game would be fine”

[@fein360]

Hey Vars! Thanks for another interesting video! IMO:The thing about reworks is they are more risky to do then releasing a new champ. If the reworks aren’t done well and sometimes even if they are you can upset the champs player base.

[@VarsVerum]

Very true! But Riot tends to do a great job imo they have like a 90% hitrate XD

[@dimyxer5913]

Could we get a playlist to the background music of your videos ? Because it's amazing

[@elitefourfay4712]

Alot of it seems to be from Octopath Traveller and Fire Emblem. JRPGs

[@forranger4281]

I still remember starting league about a year ago and I could barely know the names of anyone in the game. Took me awhile before I finally knew what everyone's names are and have an idea on what they do.

[@danieldan7713]

I love the current aatrox. My only problem is. Malphite (or anyone else) destroys me by buildimg armor. Why does he not have build in armor shred like darius and garen. Ofc you can say he got sweetspots and it kills squishys. But i would rather remove the extra damage on sweetspots and make it a cleave. He's a draintanker, not a squishy destroyer. And he cant even destroy squishys lategame, cause they just blow him up (if they got some degree of skill, we are not talking about people who font abuse antiheal, cause its really stupid) because they do a lot of damage, and aatrox has no defenses, no reach, no damage.

[@brianfox340]

The only thing I think you missed is the new player experience. I've started learning league recently, and just when I think I can sort-of play Garden I match up with a Kled, not knowing at all how to play against him. In a game where knowing matchups is THIS important, 150+ champions is brutal when you're starting out. Love your content.

[@skayles4716]

To be honest, I think a lot of older champion's kits, even the most dated ones are rather fine. What I wish Riot would do, is pull an Ezreal on them and get every janky old champion up to par with the newer releases graphically. There's a lot of appeal in a character's visuals, and a good part of the likes of Anivia, Cho'Gath, Corki or Tryndamere being unpopular, on top of their kits not being the most flashy ones, is just their character models being noticeably old to the point where they sometimes feel clunky to play. One of the reasons Blackfrost Anivia, High Noon Lucian and High Noon Ashe are as appreciated. And it's the same reason so much people flocked to Aether Wing Kayle before her rework. The new models and animations make the champion's that much smoother - and thus make it that much more enjoyable to play.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

Reminder that Jax is just as old as they are and he still has his basic kit since his conception. It's the reason why scrubs bark when Jax gets fed.

[@skayles4716]

@@Geheimnis-c2e I mean, yes and no. The core idea of Jax's kit has stayed the same, but he still went through a bit of changes over time. Like at some point his passive gave him 5HP per bonus AD and 4HP per bonus AP, meaning old Gunblade gave him 600HP, and his E was a 4-ish second CD stun that you could only activate if he had recently dodged an attack. But yeah, a lot of old kits are actually just fine. But still, they could really use a visual update. I'm even sometimes wondering how is Riot so slow to visually upgrade their older champions, because visual consistency is IMO super important to a game like this.

[@ViraLCyclopes]

Vars I'd like to thank you for helping me on my English exam for the argument essay. I just copied your format and wrote the essay that way

[@kayleelockwood4748]

I like your idea of reworks and even in your Quinn video you brought a rework up, but characters like that don't need one in my opinion. Just scaling or design changes to bring people to play them.

[@Justin73791]

@6:15 My problem with yuumi isn't found in most games when she's supporting a squishy adc. It's how she makes something like Darius an unstoppable 1v9 force if your team didn't counter pick the combination.

[@nushia7192]

Well, riot can just implement something like: a pre-ban pick system, to be able to ban champs like either 3 auto-bans & triple choice pre-pick+player selection pick per player before the game starts.

[@BraveLilToasty]

It is honestly amazing how Janna's passive is "go wooosh" and Seraphine's is literally 2 and both of them is good. And yet Janna never really falls into the meta.

[@thelastsepheramain6867]

I'm a Janna main, and i don't want her to be meta again after the Ardent Incident.

[@BraveLilToasty]

@@thelastsepheramain6867 That was a fun meta. Unhealthy sure, but everyone feared the support.

[@BusinessWolf1]

Definitely. It's one of the reasons I stopped playing, way too much change. Then they revamped every single item and I just said fuck it, I can't get good at this when shit changes SO MUCH. Not to mention, every single new fucking champion created problems in toplane, which is my lane.

[@htdindra]

Love your content man, a neutral perspective on League's controversies is quite nice to see.

[@Bisheimer]

A few Champions should never be released. I want more Reworks.

[@Bisheimer]

Syals is a champ where he's healing makes zero sense in my opinion. His passive, q, e and r have that feeling of an ex Wizzard hunter that did escape from prison but his W..... For most champions their ability makes sense but here I have no idea why it exist.

[@hideyourgf8502]

True, for me at least viego and gwen, cuz those champs are just buggy af + their abilities are unfair

[@Bisheimer]

@@hideyourgf8502 I found Gwen okay. She is like a Kayle but if you play somebody like Fiora, Jax she is okay. Tanks are having a bad time because of her passive. But a good Jax can give her a run for her money. She may has 2 dashes but she lacks in cc and she a good window where she can get punished.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

@@Bisheimer Jax loses later on because any sane Jax main will not build bork because Jax needs hp to supplement the tank stats he gets from ult. I do agree that Sylas W is bs. Godforbid Aatrox to heal the same amount in such a short burst but apparently since Sylas is a mage, he gets a pass. Yknow how lenient rito games is with mages.

[@GaidenDS10]

This is the problem I had ever since with the game, in direct result of it may try to overshadowed champions and their impact over time ( feel sorry for guys like Annie and Twisted Fate, though there not my main favorites but hey, these two are from the early releases of the early LOL days, and now their impact was put into vein) & addin new champions sure looks pointless fer sure too (and I’m looking at you Olaf & Seraphine)

[@razin_kang]

Can't believe one of the topic I've been wondering for a long time is now a video. Woot. Thanks Vars

[@syberdubno2394]

You Polypuff and Necrit are my favorite league content creators. But, you are obviously the BEST out of the three.

[@VarsVerum]

What about Exil? He's an amazing creator :o

[@syberdubno2394]

@@VarsVerum never heard of him 🤔

[@wynvernheraldofdragons9901]

I must agree with Vars' analyzation. I think that there are many champions that I don't really like to play because either their looks, effects, or playstyle are too boring or old in comparison to some of the newer ones. I think that reworks have certainly done their job in bringing old champions up to speed and that updating them would do a lot for the game. I must say, though, that there is another problem with having too many champions: trying to decide which ones you really want to play. I have had this problem for a while and it has technically stopped me from climbing much in ranked.

[@freddiet.rowlet525]

The thing is that while adding new characters to a game CAN be interesting and exciting, you can only do so much before you have to start re-treading old ideas (or coming up with insane ones that end up creating more problems than they're worth, Viego). If you look at recent releases, obviously there's Sona and Seraphine, but you also have Samira kinda being ranged Yasuo, Rell is Leona with armour shred, Gwen is basically AP Fiora and let's not forget that two of the champions released in the past 2 years (Senna and Yone) are specifically designed to play similarly to existing champs. I'd rather that Riot focussed on bringing all existing characters up to the same standard rather than creating someone else who does the same but better.

[@mistared4021]

for dota 2 specifically,they release a 1 new champion every year but they constantly change the map,add and remove items and occasionally rework some frustrating champions.the sheer variety of that game comes from the items as well as the champions as there's a lot more variance there than in lol.(though the Heroes are very diverse too)

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

Because there's a lot of nuances in DotA as much as there are nuances in League. Even turn speed is a thing in DotA.

[@adamwilson3104]

Honestly, I feel like some champions like corki only need the slightest touch-up to be viable again. Make corkis e armor, and Mr shread scale with attack damage, or even attack speed, and you fix one of his biggest issues. The small change riot made to garen giving scaling on his E with attack speed was a Massive boost to his viability, he's still the same spin to win, no brain champion, but it opened the door to so many different builds, and play styles for what you need in different games. Same thing with Rammus more recently.

[@pokemonaofei94]

first fire emblem music, now octopath......a person of culture, i see :D

[@josemanuelrojas214]

I'd say go the route of mini reworks like wukong, not having to put that much time into the visuals but still updating the kit would make wonders for all old champions.

[@Ven_detta_]

This gets brought up pretty frequently and again, doesn't matter if it does since new champions are one of the many things that keep casual players (most of the playerbase) interested and people who would otherwise play infrequently coming back. I heard one of the recent champions bought a bunch of people back into the game don't remeber which one tho

[@zetachaox]

Separate the mechanic overhauls from the visual ones. This would allow for much faster updating of mechanically outdated champions and while it might require adding new visual effects for new spells, it won't require redesigning all the models and skins.

[@SimpleSpectator]

I really wish they took a year off from creating new champs and focused on updating existing champs by giving them VGU/VU’s. So many iconic league champions like Katarina, LeBlanc, Ahri, Nocturne, Shyvanna, Shaco, Tryndamere, Annie and many others have horrendous base animations and models. They FINALLY got to working on Udyr after years of talking about it. I had hoped that the 10th anniversary would have been the year of VU/VGU’s for existing champs but it didn’t seem like it. Kayle, Morganna and Ezreal updates were really successful and were like a breath of fresh air into those champs by giving them meaningful voice overs and updated gameplay (mainly Kayle). Also updated lores which is always appreciated in making characters actually seem like champions. Lots of older champions could use this. Fiddle and Voli reworks are phenomenal examples of successful updates.

[@Tuskor130]

I genuinely believe Riot needs to take an entire year off from releasing new champions just to focus on reworks. It's a meme at this point but Ryze is so pointless right now. Half his core items are gone, Seraph lost the shield, Phase Rush got nerfed, man is useless. And then Teemo and Blitzcrank tie for the worst ability in the game. Blitz's W is useless; the movespeed decay is instant and massive, the attack speed is worthless, and *he still fucking slows himself.* And Teemo's W is literally just movespeed and nothing else. Compare that to Samira having three fucking passives that are all absurd. (Let's get this much out of the way, Samira's movespeed passive is a directly superior Sivir passive.) Not to mention Teemo and Blitz combined have less voice lines than Ezreal has skins. There's a decent amount of champions who at the very least are desperate for a visual update. You look at Zilean and his pizza feet, 6 voice lines, and 4 animations, and tell me he doesn't need a modernized look. We don't need any more shadow isle champs who exist as lore dumps for a character so fundamentally broken that he's disabled in pro play. We need less Viegos, Yuumis, and Gwens and more Fiddlesticks

[@herrscherkiller3432]

I felt something similar when i started play Honkai Impact 3rd 13 months ago. I hoped i'll get Herrscher of the Void and do all the cool things she done in the trailers but she was released in 2018 and she was meta for 1 year before new stronger in damage characters were added to the game.

[@zandromex8985]

This was a good video and all but OH MY GOD, OCTOPATH SOUNDTRACK!!!! I thought I couldn´t like your content more, turns out I was wrong!

[@bird9188]

as someone who plays both dota and league, I find it that dota is way more varied and unique with their heroes because they don't follow a formula a lot of league characters do, some heroes have like 2 ability and 3 passives, some have like 5 abilities you can press

[@MatschinHandstand]

True, i Agree with your statments. The thing with the 5 bans per team are in my head for a long time now. i think normally whhy should i ban someone because there are so much overtuned champs that it dosnt matter at all. And i think all champions should have a secondary attribute like Mana... Because soem champs like garen, yas, yone ..... have such an high substain and only have to focus on there health.... others have to go base so often because oom...... but nevermind :)

[@MrOnionRing]

I wish riot would balance around different variables other than base/scaling numbers, cooldown, and mana cost. Like spell range, missile speed, missile width/size, duration, damage type etc. ALOOOOOT of champions need updates based on above. Also with items I feel AD has a much more broad itemization choice. So many different items work based on enemies you’re against. With AP you don’t get the same options, and I feel there’s only a couple build paths. I miss building decent movement speed.

[@imbigbilly1352]

I can’t imagine the game without all these champions. Well... except one. *demonic pop music intensifies*

[@minaly22]

Most fucking definitely too many. I think having a HARD tierlist limitation would be the solution, much like how in the pokemon community there is the Uber-OU-UU-RU-NU tiers. Champions from high tier can't go down but the low tiers can be used in high tier games if the players want. I really don't like how they still allow for unfair matches with very disproportioned champion power levels despite one side very obviously having severe disadvantages all around (like a team of old schools Annie+Ashe+TF+Garen+Nunu going up against new champs like Senna+Pyke+Zoe+Ekko+Aatrox).

[@jeanpierrepolnareff9919]

I think the glaring problem with new champs is that a lot of them are jack-of-all trades kind of character, with counterplay being "just dont be close to them". Back in the day we had: Tank, Adc, Mage, Support. Now we have something like yone or sylas that can heal, tank, do assassin tier damage and have cc on top of that. Compare that to a character like singed. He runs fast and farts poison. How cool is that?

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

To be fair, no other champ can make you decide on whether to farm it out or stop him from proxying. Singed makes you think more options than what you normally would.

[@jeanpierrepolnareff9919]

@@Geheimnis-c2e Singed is useless if you know how to play vs him. Just be wary of his early(its way more powerful than people think) If he doesnt get ahead, and you ignore him, hes pretty useless. Hes just a fling bot, and many tank supps do that job way better. Problem is, specially low elo, people just focus him for no reason, he does no damage, his cc is decent to bad, and hes not that tanky. But i'd argue that he's one of the best champs to one trick, because only you know how to play against him. Basically, to know how to play vs singed, you need to main him for a while.

[@jeanpierrepolnareff9919]

oh and proxying is out of the question with the quadrillion dashes and junglers like kayn, its just not possible to proxy.

[@guest_zzroman2076]

At one point they'll have to give themselves a 2 year break to rework all the old champions before they make new ones, probably won't happen until the MMO comes out cause that gives them a place to keep introducing new characters that could later become champions.

[@BigMuskachini]

I'd rather see a power creep reduction and a re-evaluation on champions that are unanimously considered cancer. Wondering if there are very minor changes you could make to a lot of champions to make their counterplay more apparent

[@guiltyrailgun2880]

I actually enjoy trying to figure out overcomplicated systems but I know that is just me.

[@niterise1479]

I totally agree with how adding more champions can cause older ones to lose their touch or quality than unless they already fit the modern style of champions being created. I feel it is a matter of having more Quality reworks than newer additions as they too can make it feel refreshed. As a side note and a off topic one, will lillia at some point be a topic for wnop?

[@TreeForceGaming]

An interesting point I find with this is that from a business standpoint, Riot wants the newer champions to feel special compared to old ones. They want their newer champions to stand out from the crowd so that people buy them and their skins. An example of why can be seen in Taliyah, on release Taliyah did not sell super well as she was decently weak and her user experience and visual appeal were not super impressive. So, yes if they update the old champions that will allow everyone to feel special in their own way. But if everyone is special the newer champions don't feel as special unless they break the mold even more, which just starts the same cycle over again. Riot is a business which means they do things for profit. And as you talked about before, making a new champion is easier, cheaper, and more consistent in terms of money made. Reworking a champion is expensive, reworking skins, remaking animations, designing the champion over again, and they also are under the restrictions of not breaking the existing champion's identity. Plus a lot of the people who care about that champion already own their skins, which means that the profit only comes from new players purchasing skins for the champion. And there is also the fun value for the design and art teams, making something new with no limits will always be more fun than remaking something within its constraints. That is my analysis of why they would focus on making new champions. For the tldr, it is more consistently profitable to make new champions.

[@cohoslash5893]

Its not too many but its the unique experience you get from learning all of them even if theres alot _that experience includes getting erased by aphelios_

[@apollyon1311]

And also getting erased as aphelios

[@mr.spoonu2d870]

They need to do class reworks again. A lot of that stuff ended up reverted. But it also made the game a lot more interesting at the time even if it was rough. And it really did bring a lot of champions up to speed with what the current game was doing. We still have Graves, and Quinn.

[@儀水鏡の妖怪霊]

From my experience in ranked, it is important to point out that the saturation won't be felt if it isn't high per role. I play support mostly, but I sometimes play as ADC, and I'm not gonna lie, ADC feels like the least varied role in the game. Every champion plays pretty much the same as they are all markmen who mostly focus on ranged combat, with the exception of Samira and the occasional mage botlaner. That role wouldn't harm to get some sort of champion designed for the role that allows for the expansion of the champion pool. Because man, does it feel stale from time to time.

[@mikoartz5006]

Honestly, from all 150 camps only just hand ful i actually. Like, so the more champians they add then the more champians they have that might appeal to someone, tho i would love more characters like zoe and gwen

[@chabri2000]

old champion: press E, spins, enemy dies. new champion: press q+w+e+r+ctrl+alt+shift+up+down+left+right+spin, enemy dies, the enemy nexus exploded, the players and their families, all had a heart attack

[@angelscotch7169]

The business standpoint problem of not having as many champion releases isn't impossible to work around either. If they wanted to take time to focus on reworking all of the older roster, they could just focus on pumping out skins for champions that already have a large and dedicated player base to pull in revenue.

[@ShaingTV]

Lets be honest here, the problem isn't necessary power creep in the game but more so feature creep. Newer champions simply have more agency as they can do more stuff on their own. But since you can just have 2 times the same champion with the same stats and one simply with more skills, the old champs will get better scaling, damage ratios etc, making them more or less just stat sticks. Then the problem arises tho that, how do you balance champions against one another when one is stronger in terms of what it can do and the other that is "theoretically" stronger? Its just an entirely messed up system that will always be flawed as long as riot tries too hard to make a champion "too unique". I dont need a third yasuo that can do what a 10 year old tryndamere can do, just on steroids or another seraphine or neeko or heck even akali or zoe.

[@GarnetDust24]

How do you think they should handle more bans in solo queue? Maybe adding two more per team and randomly doling it out? Maybe give priority to people that auto fill or who play unpopular lanes?

[@DutchSimmer1]

What I don’t like about new releases is how some champs like Aphelios and Yone have mixed damage, percent health damage, missing health damage, shields, cc, dashes and whatever. I truly thought Riot wasn’t able to create characters that aren’t overloaded or have a mechanic that makes players not like them (Yuumi). However, with the Gwen rework, I feel like they did a good job. All the descriptions of her abilities are quite short, which is a good thing, because a champion isn’t as complicated at the surface for new players. She fits in a role that we don’t have many champions in, AP fighters. The only thing about her that people wouldn’t like which I understand is her W, however after having played her for a couple times I feel like she does need it to be a good champ.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

Please remember that Aphelios does not have % health damage like Kai'Sa or Vayne. His shields come from his severum heals and it's a flat amount. His cc is also dependent on gravitum, which he does not have all the time. Yone is busted though, I agree with that.