Does Patrick Mahomes need to pass Tom Brady in Super Bowl rings to be the GOAT? | NFL | SPEAK

Emmanuel Acho, Joy Taylor, LeSean McCoy and James Jones debate whether Patrick Mahomes needs to pass Tom Brady in Super Bowl rings to be the GOAT or not.
#Speak #NFL #PatrickMahomes
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About SPEAK:
The revamped SPEAK takes over the airwaves with Emmanuel Acho, LeSean McCoy and Joy Taylor covering the day’s hottest topics in sports and offering their unfiltered takes.
Does Patrick Mahomes need to pass Tom Brady in Super Bowl rings to be the GOAT? | NFL | SPEAK
• Does Patrick Mahomes n...
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[@SpeakOnFS1]

Check out the What’s Wright? with Nick Wright podcast: sprtspod.fox/WhatsWright_YT

[@bmj2k7]

He needs 8! Brady needed 4, or 5 to finally pass Montana. 6 sealed the deal. So yes he needs at least 7, honest 8 to pass him for most. And he lost to Tom head to head. So he needs to go to 10 like Brady, but have a better record, go 8-2. We have to treat him like we treated Tom! If your the GOAT, we shouldn't have to treat you with kid gloves just to put you in the conversation. We should make it harder, bc that's how we treated Brady trying to pass Montana.

[@treyspaulding46]

THIS SHOWS WACK😂! IM DONE 👍 YAL EMBARRASSED YOURSELVES TODAY EXCEPT ACHO ... So shady then your nowhere near the best Running back IN YOUR LOGIC 😂

[@johndevivo5654]

Yo shady is absolutely pathetic sometimes. When they debated Peyton being top 3 he shut down all of his stats and accolades and said 2 chips in 17 years so patty is better. Now to defend patty he saying why do stats n accolades not matter 😅shady get pats meat out your mouth! Learn to think outside of ur narrow minded view point

[@bearxxxbear]

Shady is bias and confused about Brady and Belichick! How is Reid is better than Belichick... what's the head to head record? Same as Brady and Mahomes --> 2-0. The end of the day is how many rings you have and not what the stat's say.

[@treyspaulding46]

@@bearxxxbear Dido! Their argument is weak for Patrick and Reid.

[@EmmaChihuahua81]

Who would argue that Terry Bradshaw was a better QB than Dan Marino? It isn't just rings, it is stats and the eyeball test.

[@tammyboon6259]

💯% agree!!!!

[@SeonCarwe]

My eye test says Brady beat him in the afc title game and in the Super Bowl.

[@nightwingjonah]

Bad example bro. Nobody in their right mind would say Rodgers better than Brady if talent is all that matters

[@landofthedreadheads8901]

Brady beat him when it mattered the most and i cant stand Brady

[@nathannewman6555]

The eye test doesn't tell you how a player makes suggestions in team meetings or how a player makes checks at the line to change up the offense. Quarterbacks, more than any other position, have influence over the coaches play calling. Mahomes has won with one of the best offensive minds in the history of the game as his head coach. Brady won with a defensive coach that can't win without him.

[@aSTROnomical_8]

Acho is a brilliant dude. I’m Convinced he takes some stands for the sake of TV… Cause some things he says logic is just so flawed because he’ll make an similar take in a day or 2 about different people but that same logic suddenly won’t apply

[@tammyboon6259]

I so agree!!!! I started to get FRUSTRATED listening to his arguments & rationals!!!!

[@tioluwaoladimeji5712]

Of course he does, it's TV

[@williamallen7984]

James, not only does Eli have the two rings-he best Rodgers to get one of them 😂

[@315giants]

the eli disrespect is crazyyyy

[@MrClbrown33]

Acho.... News flash, QBs don't play defense so they NEVER play head to head. You played in the NFL you should know this. And that Tampa team that won, won off of defense and Patty was missing 3 of his starting offensive linemen. Thank you Joy!!!!!!

[@russellfedele5146]

I love how h2h is discredited because of the dynamics of the sport, yet Josh Allen gets killed for h2h record even considering his great numbers.

[@Renegade-kf8fp]

Josh is the lukaku of the nfl

[@optimusprime4263]

how is josh allen being discredited? literally everybody thinks he is a top 4 qb.

[@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m]

Josh can’t win the big game when it matters the most

[@chrisculhane3777]

Facts.

[@liellis5]

They don’t talk about how bad the chiefs line was that year

[@Travis89-ob5tt]

Winning 7 going to 10 plus winning one of those in Tampa along with dominating in his 40's(including going through Mahomes for 2 SB's)makes Brady so uniquely great he will always have a solid argument for the GOAT. He completely shattered the mold in longevity, SB appearances, and most of all SB wins.

[@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m]

Also mention Tom Brady got carried by his defense for majority of his career and Patrick Mahomes has always been the driving force behind every Super Bowl win the chiefs have had

[@tacoabeast8385]

And Cheating...

[@Travis89-ob5tt]

@@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m maybe some day you'll look into those games a little deeper and find out how wrong you are. Did you know he actually carried the pats in the second SB with 350 and 3 touchdowns when the game turned into a shootout in the second half and the D couldn't get a stop to save they're life? He literally led the league in TDs in year 2 and was getting MVP votes by year 3.

[@Travis89-ob5tt]

@@tacoabeast8385 right after the deflated ball game he killed the colts by 40 points in the AFC championship.

[@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m]

@@Travis89-ob5ttSo who won the first three Super Bowls? Who had the game winning play in the Super Bowl vs Seattle? Game winning play in the Super Bowl vs the Rams?

[@BigDawg-o8s]

Let's not forget 4 or 5 of them Brady rings were in a time where the defense could head hunt and actually play defense. Imo with ow wide open the game is becoming every record will be broke at some point

[@tqlla]

Players are scared to touch mahomes. You see them let off anytime they are near him.

[@KennethFlaglerjr]

​​@@tqllafacts like for example week one against the lions mahomes ran and the safety was right in front of him and he sagged off if that was 20 years ago mahomes would of got laid out

[@michelleblanc6377]

For starters he has 7 not 5. Secondly I would like you to point out which 4 game Brady was not instrumental in securing the win. Also I would like to point out to you that Brady might have two extra rings if the defence would have done it’s job properly.

[@BigDawg-o8s]

@@michelleblanc6377 duh I know how many he has. My point was 4 or 5 of them came in a different NFL game than how wide open it is now

[@michelleblanc6377]

@@BigDawg-o8s duh I can only read what you write(5) not what you were thinking of writing. Duh.

[@jiggzvegas1988]

I could be wrong, but I need to ask this question and Tom Brady’s first five seasons did Tom Brady ever have the offensive weapons that Mahomes had did Tom Brady have a offense of weapon as talented as Travis Kelce did he have an offense of weapon as talented as Tyreek Hill why are we saying that Patrick Mahomes is doing this all by himself Tyreek Hill alone can change the dynamics of an offense and how a defensive coordinator plays a team.

[@brandonhill7452]

Bro this is facts

[@Gisburne2000]

Just one time, just one, when Shady says "How many stats did you have?" let Acho ask him, "What stats did you have in those two Superbowl wins of yours?" and zoom in close on Shady's face. Zero and zero. He never even stepped on the field, both times. Will someone PLEASE bring that up?

[@FaceFamous]

Im waiting on them to bring it up. Shady did not win any rings. he was given a ring because he was just there..........ON THE BENCH

[@benjibuttons7483]

Yea , Acho never touched a Super Bowl field or got any hardware to even prove he played in the league

[@8figures8]

"7 Super Bowls is crazy!" is the reason Brady is the undisputed Goat. "6-0 in the Finals is CRAZY" ...which is why Jordan is the goat. Pat needs to go at least 6-3 to be considered the Goat or he needs to do something that is CRAZY that even Tom couldn't do. When we talk about greatness it's no longer about stats; it's about records, accolades, moments and making history.

[@Frank-mu5yz]

Brady no Goat(7rings) Lamb Belichick (8) Rings GOAT.. Belichick 2 superbowl rings with NewYork Giants as a defensive cordinator before headed to New England.. Jordan-(6) rings LAMB Bill Russel (11) yes (11)rings GOAT

[@michelleblanc6377]

@@Frank-mu5yz Belichick has 6 rings has a HC, Stop changing the conversation to your narrative. If Brady had 3 rings as the Executive of The Vegas Raiders you would count them? No you wouldn’t. Please stop with the idiocy’s.

[@Frank-mu5yz]

(8)- Belichick rings..google it. The word if has a lot of weight.. Your usage of (IF) is meaningless IF...IF..I could of done this or that.. Then I'd would of accomplished Certain goals..in LIFE.. (If) lions would of gotten that outside kick Against the ninersThen it would of Probably been Lions in Superbowl.. (If) Green wouldn't of been benched For one game against la-Bron. On the Playoffs..Then Probably Warriors of taken the Championship..(If) (IF) They Would of given the ball To lynch..they could of probably Scored to Beat New England In the Superbowl... So how do we respond to (if) OH WELL.. ITS THEIR LOST... WHAT CAN I SAY.. HOW DUMB OF THEM ... THEY WERE JUST LUCKY... I COULD GO ON AND ON... But I'll stop. Many hurdles in life.. That people would of wanted to accomplished.. But the word or thought (if) Would still of been my word for not fulfilling my accomplishments.. ( 4 ) simple words ..in life ( AND, IF, OR, BUTTS,) Can guides in life .. Words I've used for my GrandKids. One is Pilot...Another Neorsugen.. Both succeeding in Life.. Thanks for reply. Again Brady- not a goat..(Lamb) Jordan- (lamb)

[@michelleblanc6377]

@@Frank-mu5yz Just one argument . Brady could win it without Belichick. Belichick couldn’t win as a HC without Brady. Mike drop. Have a nice day. He did to Brady the exact same thing he did to Bernie Kosar the guy is not even smart enough to learn from his previous mistakes this is what got him fired in NE and more than likely his career is over.

[@Frank-mu5yz]

@michelleblanc6377 thank you for response.. I won't drop my mic.. Knowing that Brady at times has had BUTTERFINGERS Still a Lamb..

[@anhtannguyen5577]

These analyst underrate clutch moments. Tom is clutch and that’s why he wins above all

[@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m]

How come he wasn’t clutch against the Giants in the 2007 and 2011 Super Bowl? How come he wasn’t clutch against the Broncos in the AFC Championship game four times? How come he wasn’t clutch against the Eagles in the Super Bowl with the game on the line?

[@michelleblanc6377]

@@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m Because Bill could not make the stop that his supposedly Super defence is supposed to do. The same defence that could not stop Nick Foles of putting 41 points on the Patriots. In both Eli SB the defence could not deliver and the offence was ok. Brady was clutch on five of his 7 SB wins that is clutch on 70% of his SB.

[@Ecool27]

@@michelleblanc6377tell himmmmm

[@jackwoods9604]

Here is a "Stat" That Shows How Clutch and Great Tom Really Was...In The Redzone With Bucs Tom Had 64 TDs & 0 INTs..."64-0!!"...This Stat is Absolutely BANANAS!!!!!...If Mahomes Had That Stat it Would be PLASTERED All Over Sports Media by The Mahomeboys

[@michelleblanc6377]

@@jackwoods9604 Jack if we start looking there are a ton of crazy Brady stat. For instance Brady during his career threw for TD to 98 different receivers. He probably has the highest number of receivers. Why do you think that is? For most of his career he didn’t have that one or two guys that would always be open. So in order to make the plays he had to scatter the ball left and right to different guys. People forget what was his situation when he landed in NE compared to Mahomes. I said it before and I am going to say it again you cannot do a straight comparison of Mahomes first 6 years to Brady’s first 6 years. For starters just the difference of close to 20 years makes a huge difference in the stats that they were both able to compile. In a nutshell when you do that you are comparing apple to oranges.

[@Tino237]

Now its a team sport, yet they be havin segments QB VS QB

[@llkla4507]

facts bro 😂😂😂😂 it was just tua vs mahomes even tho kc defense put miami in a straight jacket .. only td is when they motioned away from sneed

[@ybkid6513]

yes they finally corrected themselves

[@terronpenny3116]

Like joy said, it’s to sell the game, to get more views. Main thing ppl talk about are qbs, qbs are the main focus of a team. Just because it’s done doesn’t make it right and what should be done, it’s all entertainment

[@alejandrohernandez9178]

Unfortunately Dee Ford cost him one in KC second one Tom had a better offensive line but I watched that game when KC played NE and Pat outplayed Tom😮

[@kristijohnson6051]

Tom the goat rn but let’s not act like Tom was the best player on his team for all 7 superbowls his defense was carrying him

[@SGP100]

Everyone…ESPECIALLY younger folks are so quick to have recency bias and forget history.

[@beard1851]

They glossed over Joy's point, but It was the best argument about the head to head... QB Vs Defense not QB bs QB...!!

[@calinator51]

I would say he needs to atleast tie the superbowls because at the end of the day that is the biggest stat that people look at and I want to add two things, not to say Tom is better or a certain thing happened at the end of one of their matchups: Tom Brady has 2 big head to head defeats over Mahomes. How those games were won does not matter to someone looking back at it 20 years from now. And also the big thing is Tom "won" those matchups in literally his 40's compared to Mahomes prime. Tom also has the leverage of he went to another team in his 40's and did it again. That is insane. Stats wise they talked about Mahomes nearly 30k yards at 28. Tom Brady has 89k yards..... That is absurd. If you combine Joe Montana and John Elways yards together they are at 92k yards. That is how insane Toms yards are. And also Tom has the moments. He literally has the biggest clutch and game moment of all-time coming back from 28-3. How it happened aside I once again say, it is a legendary accomplishment. I also disagree with James about athleticism. Quarterback is the one position where it literally doesn't matter, being accurate and reading a defense is 100x more important than running around and being big and athletic. Not to mention Tom had a really strong arm and his accuracy was perfect. Being big and athletic is actually bad for longevity because they are causing a lot of contact. I know it sounds like I love Tom but I hate the guy, I just have to be honest about how good he was. I'd put Tom and Montana at 1 and 2 currently, Mahomes at 3 but can interchange with Montana easily.

[@ybkid6513]

I never got why brady gets extra credit for leaving a declining team for a team that had everything besides a qb. also just because the average simple minded human forgets about context doesn't change the actual context of the situation

[@sonikspeed19]

@@ybkid6513 Here we go, another blind man spouting up that nonsense line that Buccs were stacked. The same stacked team that was shut out by the Saints. Same team that was average at best before the bye week. The same stacked team that needed Gronk, AB, Leonard, and Succup (the only ones to score in the SB), in order for them to even be decent. Same stacked team that almost lost to Tyler Heinicke in the first round. Same stacked team that played the same defensive formation all game in the SB but Pat just didn't want to adapt, cause that same defense got like 20+ put on em by Rodgers the prior game. The truth of the matter is, that Succaneers team was not good just had a few talented pieces like every team does. But Brady showed them a winning culture and got them to believe in him and in a SB goal, and it took everything they had to make it there. Unlike Mahomes, who couldn't score 1 TD all game and refused to change his playing method.

[@jctslice]

​@@sonikspeed19 they were stacked. Let's cut the BS

[@theopencourt7231]

Patrick Mahomes has been the engine of his team since the day he started his first game. Brady was carried by great defenses for his 1st three superbowls. So if Mahomes wins 6 as the driving force and has better stats and can do things Tom couldn’t, how would he not be the goat?

[@pajamajordan2991]

Brady was never in the same trajectory that Mahomes is currently on. Only 2 of Tom’s Super Bowl appearances did he have a completion percentage on par with Mahomes last Sunday Mahomes surpassed Tom’s entire post season rushing yards with just the last 4 games alone. If head to head is all you want to look at, I got these 2 cats named Nick Foles and Eli Manning who Tom could never beat when it truly counted

[@RonBoswell-hk3bt]

First there was the "tuck rule", Seattle's Stupid pass on the goal line, Dee Ford lining up in the neutral zone, please.

[@jonathankim6755]

Giants were lucky too

[@zboy365]

Shady so cheeks, James proves his point and he got a problem... man FOH

[@LarryElder585]

Great player, terrible at this

[@kingshafeeq7021]

The greatest quarterbacks show up in the greatest moments, and Tom Brady did that the most often than others, and as great as Patrick Mahomes is when compared to Tom Brady the sample size is too little I’ve been a New England Patriots fastest 2002 with Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl and every since then Tom Brady has been my goat. 🐐

[@MrGoddlie]

He can 3-4 and that depends on how he wins and gets there to me personally. No one thought he'll get there this year and last one.

[@freddiepfloater74]

Shady wears the cape for Pat and TB12 because he was the team that won SB. Cuz ain’t even touch the field during those playoff runs. Blessings To You G

[@sportsavant2937]

From what these people are saying, I can tell for certain the NFL and Fox are telling them what they can say and can't say. When Shady brings up stats for Mahomes and Acho brings up stats for Lebron, they never bring them into context. I don't know about Shady but Acho is too smart to not realize the difference in era. Mahomes play in an exclusively offensive era where every offensive stats is inflated. Comparing Lebron's stats to Jordan is also the same. Their job is to hype current players. This is why I hate these kinds of disingenuous debates.

[@jctslice]

Brady is literally why the era went solely offense lmao

[@jctslice]

@@Jeads5431 better argument is to say that Brady made the era the way it is where you can't hit anyone lol

[@sportsavant2937]

@@Jeads5431 To say Brady is the reason is nothing but jealousy talk. In 2006 the NFL changed the rule to help Peyton Manning win his first Superbowl by making it illegal for the DBs to hand fight with the WRs after 5 yards. In 2007 Carson Palmer hit late and low (which was a cheap shot) by the Chiefs player Pollard that tore his ACL. He was out for an entire season. Then in 2008 that same Chiefs player did the same to Brady and tore his ACL that knock Brady out. The next year, the NFL changed the rule to prevent defenders from hitting a QB below the knees. You could say that rule was because of Brady. Then a few years later Peyton Manning got hit in the neck that broke his neck. The NFL changed the rule to prevent defenders from hitting the QB above the shoulders. Then in 2012 the NFL got sued for CTE by former players. In 2014 or something the NFL decided to change the rules preventing the defenders from hitting defenseless players and hitting players as hard as they could. There were many changes like targeting rule, head hunting, or lead with your helmet, etc. Then in 2017 the NFL further changed the rules to give the offense even more advantage due to the popularity with Fantasy Football and the NFL is dipping its toe with Gambling. Are those rules change because of Brady? Those rules changes benefit Brady because it allows him to play longer. But Mahomes started playing in 2018 when the rules vastly favor the offense to the point where you can't even accidentally touch the QB in the head. In 2022 the defenders have to cradle the QB to the ground if they want to tackle the QB and the receivers. In the past, it was a huge deal whenever a QB pass for 300 yards per game or 2 tds. Today, it happens very frequently. And even bad to average QBs throw for more yards and tds per season than the HOFers of the past. It is like comparing a dollar today to one dollar 20 years ago. Heck it is like comparing a dollar today to a dollar 10 years ago.

[@Luisperez-qx6id]

@@jctsliceI don’t see it that way, it’s the way the game transitioned, similar to Kobe in the nba, both Brady and Kobe played in both eras

[@boxican83]

Eras are just not the same .

[@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m]

To me, when it comes to the GOAT debate I go off individual accolades Super Bowl MVPs, MVPs, All Pros, Pro Bowls, etc

[@clemz9013]

Honestly, why don't we just say what everyone is thinking. Based on Mahomes current trajectory, of he wins this Sunday and gets to 3 SB rings, the dude can legit get to 7 (and with ease). When you have generational talents who have an addiction to winning and being the best that's a lethal combination. Pele won 3 World Cup titles, the first when he was just 17. Usain Bolt rewrote the record books of what the 🐐 in sprinting should look like by 3 peating at the Olympics, something that was unheard of in sprinting and yet he did it in 3 different events while still holding world records that over a decade old. Look at tennis, when Sampras got to 14, ppl thought that was the epitome, no one could get past that. Then we saw the 3 goats of tennis obliterate that record because they were far more gifted but also driven than Sampras, played longer than Sampras and dominated tennis in a way we've never seen before. The same can be said of MJ. Now, when you watch Patrick Mahomes I see a player cut from the same cloth as an MJ, Usain Bolt, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic. A player who is not only physically talented but mentally strong as well. That's a lethal combination, and the proof is in the pudding, 6 straight AFC games, the guy has only lost playoff games in overtime and once in the Super Bowl because of injuries to his team (and himself) but you can see Mahomes is constantly learning from his mistakes, just like MJ, Bolt and Federer and continues to raise his game. Why do most QBs fail to win many SB despite their talent? Because the team can't keep a talented core around them. Mahomes said he can take any group of players to the SB. He has that clutch gene (which Brady had for his credit, but this is about Mahomes) Injuries stop a QB and t be fair it hampered him in his 2nd SB, but he learned from his mistakes. He made clutch runs on a bad ankle to literally win games. Like that is some MJ flu game ish, you know what I mean. And the last thing which I think might be the most impressive I've seen 2 QBs in the post season play almost perfect, amazing games against Mahomes and lost. I saw them play above their talent and left Mahomes with less than a minute in the game and he beat them both. That tells me that Mahomes is not only on track to be the 🐐 but he's on track to be arguably one of the greatest playoff QBs we've ever seen. That is where he's like Brady, he's extremely hard to beat in a game. So I think the question of does he need to catch Brady in rings to be the 🐐 when the question should be after this Sunday if he wins his 3rd SB ring, when he will catch Brady, because if he gets 3 rings this Sunday, I'll be honest with you, I'm not going to doubt that he can to 8 or 9. You heard it hear first. Mahomes is a transcendent, once in a generation talent ala- Nadal, Federer, Pele, Usain, Djokovic, MJ and then we'll all be wondering why we even doubted this kid could have gotten to 7 in the first place.

[@youthinkyouknowme5551]

Get back to me in the year 2039 when Mahomes is 43 and has got his team to 5 Super Bowls in a 7 year period (At ages 37 to 43) and was a SB MVP in 3 of them and a league MVP 2 times. / Brady has thrown for 4/5 of the top passing games in SB history/ Mahomes 0 Get back to me in the year 2040 when Mahomes is 44 years of age and he led the league in TD's passing. Yards passing (5300) and completions like Brady did Get back to me when Mahomes is unanimously named back to back All Decade QB (2000's & 2010's) over a 20 year period. I could go on and on and on. At age 43 Brady threw for more TD's in the 1st half a SB 55 than Mahomes did in his first 2 SB's combined

[@sigma6840]

She right. There is no head to head with players unless you play on different squads. Offense vs Defense. Football isn't played for QB vs QB. It's team vs team. The only way we can compare QBs is statistics.

[@gunmonkey6545]

Acho is right. Years from now they are going to compare chips and head to head. Not only that, but TB has truly memorable performances in the SB. Atlanta comeback is all time historic and he went on to add two more and one with another team. I’m not saying that Patrick can’t or won’t surpass TB, just that it’s ridiculous to talk about it now.

[@michaelkearney1313]

Pat is the goat. Why? Because in the most talented era in football at the QB position he has no peers. Brady didn’t separate himself until he won several more chips in an era where his toughest competition was the Manning brothers

[@vsm351]

Brady the GOAT. Patty ain't sh8

[@SeonCarwe]

Brady was part of Belichick system that didn’t depend on the pass to win. Imagine if he let Tom cook. Look at Tom his last years in Tampa Bay. Brady cared about winning and did it with less talent. Best football IQ, always protected the football, best 2 minute drill qb of all time, and had the best two Super Bowls: falcons and eagles. Played perfect in the 2nd half of falcons, and put up the best numbers against the eagles. Mahomes 2 Super Bowls was won on penalties and shanahan not running the ball in the 2nd half which would’ve been a blowout

[@PabloBranch2160]

I think he needs at least 5 but he doesn’t need to surpass the rings just records to ne

[@ashtonramsey386]

SoTom set the standard and now we're lowering it for Patty come on man and y'all know he won't reach 7 or pass it thats why y'all are lowering the standard

[@AilmanF2P]

@@ashtonramsey386 Toms first 3 he was basically a game manager. He only have 1 TD in his first playoff run, i wouldn't call that a winning QB. Also most people believe Mahomes is more talented but Brady is more accomplished.

[@ashtonramsey386]

@@AilmanF2P physically talented yes but talent is not only physical it can be mental also and when they played Head to head that physical talent of Patty didn't mean to much to old TB12 and plus that patriots team wasn't stacked like the chiefs offense was the patriots was defense first and had good talent on offense but chiefs had great offensive talent that made it easy for Patty so patty had it easy when he started compared to tom

[@mauriciocortez8640]

​@@Jeads5431LeBron choked 6 finals you morons lol stats ain't nothing if you lose at the end more then you win

[@jakieresykes3644]

@@ashtonramsey386Yes I keep trying to tell people that it’s not just about physical talent because if it’s just about and based Physical Talent then Tom Brady or Joe Montana are not even in the conversation for the goat quarterback if it’s a Talent the top quarterbacks in no particular order would be Peyton Manning,Aaron Rodgers,Patrick Mahomes ,John Elway and throw who ever you want at 5

[@darkmxhishot7475]

Yeah, but Tom Brady started his career in an era of football where you could still play defense

[@MrCallofdutyfanatic1]

Acho 100% right on his take today 🔥

[@erickhanna80]

Michael Vick has entered the chat.

[@UdochukwuNkwocha]

Yes tom Brady is amazing but tom said to Patrick is your league now. Tom Brady sees the potential that Patrick has and one day he will pass tom brady. This year to have all those drops and penalties and yet to win a Superbowl back to back is crazy. This dude is not 30 years yet and he has accomplished this much. He likes the pressure he loves the hunger to get better and better and perfect his craft. With a great quarterback great team and to have andy reid is future is bright

[@randomupdates4013]

Love when Acho breaks down plays on Film Room. Shady expands on stories from NFL teams he was on. James Jones calmly counters with stats like Dave Helman would. Joy, she is pretty. 🙃

[@rickyr.6030]

I’m 💯 with Achos take on brady 4:52

[@People-Business-And-Ideas]

Mahomes, is well on his way though... Every single yr he's started. He's seen nothing less than the AFC Championship. Although his record vs Brady is 3-3 (500); If he hadn't lost to him in 2019 & '21. They would already be saying he's the goat. So, now as a result, he has to play the long game... and win 8 "Rings" in less than 23/yrs. If he can 3 peat this year... and get 4 in the next 7/yrs. That would be 8 in 15/yrs. G O A T status solidified.

[@justsaying5633]

Glasses is just a Huge Mahomes hater. Mahomes just need 5, IMO. But if he were to win this bowl and next year’s bowl, he’s the goat for me.

[@obinnavictor3458]

For you....that's fine...that's your opinion not the general consensus

[@RT-xj3of]

And that’s why you’re less intelligent than the rest of the world. Kc fans are drinking that special water riding on the short bus Forreal.

[@damionjohnson9939]

The fact Brady went through Mahomes to get to his last Super Bowl (while being over 40) should at least give the Goat some breathing room for a while.

[@uarelikeme]

Bruh - let’s visit this topic when he gets AT LEAST 5. CHILL WITH THIS CONVERSATION. Put some respect on Brady’s name.

[@suaveguapele3247]

Nah fr the disrespect is crazy.

[@talmanes4589]

It's going to be tough for Mahomes to overcome Brady beating him head to head for essentially two Super Bowl rings. One directly in the Super Bowl and then the other in the AFC title game.

[@reelguy8856]

What’s better? $5000 or $7000? Yep

[@fillupsherman]

Depends on how fast you make it. I'd rather make $5k in a day than $7k in a week. Also, did you cheat to make the money? That counts, in my opinion.

[@tazzjamal7747]

​@fillupsherman that's the best counter I've ever heard against that "more money" argument

[@dfp_01]

What's greater? Earning $4500 and getting $500 from 50 other guys? Or having 50 other guys earn $6500 and give it to you while you earned $500?

[@SR-yz7wg]

Are we having this conversation? Tom Brady went to 10 super bowls, that's insane; but if we are having a conversation about not having as many rings...then Montana is the GOAT. He never lost, never threw an interception in the Super Bowl and there was no one more feared than him when he got the ball back trailing by a TD or less. Point blank period, Montana was beating you.

[@TheOriginalGankstar]

Swap Acho for Nick Wright and just let him do two shows.

[@endoflifex944]

He can’t be the goat because he was never able to beat the goat when it actually mattered. In crunch time Patrick will crunch up against the GOAT. Too many contradictions he also doesn’t have 5mvps like Peyton I doubt this guy is playing until 45 and he also has a cast around him unlike Tom Brady which had gronk only ?

[@danielcampbell1357]

Bro you’re crazy 4:51 Tom Brady didn’t have good weapons first of all Mahomes has four MVPs to regular season two Super Bowl MVPs Tom Brady didn’t get an MVP till year eight he won three Super Bowls so what does that tell you he’s not even the best guy on his team let alone in the league😂

[@danielcampbell1357]

Eli beat Tom Brady in two Super Bowls does that mean that Eli Manning is the goat over Brady😂

[@tannerboy34]

He lost with all backups for his offensive line. He’s a better talent and his number will surpass Brady. Don’t let him actually get 7 rings… it’s over

[@HuyNguyen-qc9wu]

Tom is the only true Goat

[@ericlove8716]

Eli manning is therefore the goat

[@LewisPike]

Patrick Mahomes is great, but the commentators are moving the goalpost for him in the GOAT argument.

[@mattbarron1891]

Rings,yards,touchdowns everything 😂😂

[@adonisguerra6399]

They keep bringing up jordan and lebron forgetting that that would literally be head to head... like AI and Jordan, jordan and Kobe etc... Brady didnt "beat Mahomes" he beat the chief's with asterisks moments (no oline, penalty) the problem with this nfl argument is that stats are based off the performances of your teammates. Its an argument or debate that leads to nothing because you can make an argument against each point made.

[@kingofnewyork8818]

People will choose who their GOAT is based on their own personal narrative. Because if you count on rings Bill is better than Jordan so is a lot of other players that have 7 rings in the NBA. We don’t even discuss rings when we talk the greatest baseball player ever. So your GOAT will be what makes you feel good at the end of the day.

[@stephanea5364]

No, the GOAT is overall body of work, rings, stats, MVP's, everything, that's simle and factual but some people live in fantasy land

[@sonikspeed19]

Bill Russell didn't play in the NBA. He played when it was basically a startup or a pickup game. That argument is invalid, just like you.

[@kingofnewyork8818]

@@sonikspeed19butt hurt much

[@sonikspeed19]

@@kingofnewyork8818 Not at all, just tired of this lame argument. Y'all have 2 brain cells and can't come up with anything better. Think first, then speak.

[@jctslice]

​@@stephanea5364 you left out talent conveniently because Tom will fall way short in that convo lol. Pat and Tom's talent is not even comparable lmao. It's Pat by miles. That also matters. It all matters like you said, but because of talent, Pat won't need 7 or 8 rings. If Pat gets the 3peat in fact, I think he's already GOAT

[@JayDabs420]

Brady also played in a different era most of his career. Game has changed a lot since he was a youngin.

[@auburnmann3630]

Michael never caught Bill in rings, but he’s still the goat in most’s eyes

[@jctslice]

Because of talent and that's why Mahomes CAN be GOAT too with less rings. He's more talented

[@tracyellis3445]

Hmm, mahomes has been in 6 years as a starter. Brady has 23 years, and already, the conversation between the two

[@leeboss21]

Patrick Mahomes was drafted in 2017 in the first round, 10th overall. He was expected to be great..Tom was barely drafted in the 6th round, pick 199! Coach Carr the head coach at Michigan at the time explained how New England was the only team in the NFL that called about Brady. You don’t get a Hall of Famer from a player that’s a back up QB from high school through college and in the NFL to being a 7 time Super Bowl champion and breaking multiple quarterback records, it just doesn’t happen!

[@bulletfrenzy]

The best comparison to Mahomes would be Big Ben. They play the most alike.

[@RosefromConcrete01]

Tom beat Pat 2 times when it mattered and shady talking bout he got better stats last time I checked Brady had 80k passing yards and almost 700 TD’s with 7 rings so until Pat can come close to that it shouldn’t even be a debate knowing the Brady beat him twice as well

[@NathanBradshaw-l1z]

Facts!! Brady also owns basically every QB stat and now Patty will get to play 17 games instead of 16 every year.. So his stats will be inflated

[@ItsArchieYo]

Joy is telling the truth and they ain’t hear anything she said… 😂😂

[@luckbrown1952]

Joy said getting to and winning 8 superbowls is insane but but Brady been to 10 and won 7😂😂😂 y’all make a point then prove yalls self wrong in the same take you too Shady plz you didn’t even get a snap in the Second Super Bowl you won so if not for Brady you would only have 1 ring 😂😂😂😂 shut up!

[@kohltrickle2910]

James Jones again the only logical one on this show

[@keyawilliams7691]

The fact Pat ain’t even tripping off what everyone else keep arguing about. I’m so sick of this debate

[@Ace-Davis]

Why is Joy the only one making sense bro?

[@SGP100]

Of course McCoy would say that. But be real…Mahomes just doesn’t have the QB and team comparison competition that Brady had just about his entire career in NE. He was playing in an era against Manning, Favre, Rogers, Brees, Roesthlesburger, etc. If not for Tom, Manning would have way more rings. So tell this argument to Peyton Manning. Mahomes wouldn’t be doing what he’s doing if he was playing in those guys’ era and prime. He really has no real competition. Lots of young, newer QBs and less future HOFers now playing in Mahomes’ days. Competition inferior.

[@jctslice]

Dude, Mahomes also competed against Rodgers and Brees lmao tf you talking about. Their careers overlapped

[@phillipbuckley3894]

Acho making a lot of sense here

[@SportsTalks-x1h]

Not really he is comparing head to heads like in football two quarterbacks can actually go head to head with each other😂😂 and in those head to heads mahomes was in his starting years

[@phillipbuckley3894]

But he was mvp when Brady beat him in the afc championship game and Mahomes won the super bowl the following year than Brady beat him again

[@AJ4K.0]

For the first time I 100% agree with Acho.. Tom Brady came in as an underdog and beat Mahomes at 40 yo ti win his SEVENTH SB. Skill aside, Tom Brady got it done and was the reason he won. He elevates his game when it matters most, that is what a GOAT does to me. Only way Mahomes can pass him is if he wins 8, however that does not mean mahomet isn't more "talented" than Brady because he clearly is. But I trust Brady to get it done over Mahomes, which is why he's the GOAT imo. If they didn't match up head to head in the Super Bowl then Mahomes wouldn't need to pass him, but they did

[@WontonSlim]

They are DEFINITELY gonna start bring up Brady beating maholmes twice…. Once pat starts to have a legitimate goat resume

[@nxtro3882]

He didn’t outduel Mahomes in that first match up I swear people mix that up

[@dominicharris5489]

Lol i swear. how does 1td and 3ints with a 77 rating considered outplaying 3tds 1int and a 117 passer rating???

[@elmersevillano9798]

For the love of God, can ya'll please tell Shady to stop over talking when someone else is talking or making remarks!! I literally can't finish watching just listening to this guy not let others finish 😤

[@minnickr]

Wonder how do someone winning 3 Super Bowls or maybe win 5 is said to be greater than someone that has won seven Super Bowls been to 10 Super Bowls. Just like most claim Rodgers was better than Brady because of his talent.

[@seanrowell9400]

These are the same people that say wins are a QB stat 🐸☕️ Acho the only mfer talkin facts

[@luigicantoviani323]

Old Brady battered peak Mahomes twice in the games that mattered the most. No innuendo, no conjecture, only facts. So, get 8 at least.

[@Criminaljustice79]

Tom did it over 20 years. Pat is awesome but this is a bit premature. Lots of stuff can happen… injuries etc

[@samuelperry9809]

This how I end the argument, you have a team your down 4 it’s 2 minutes left and you can choose between Mahomes or Brady to be your qb… everybody and I mean everyone guy is gonna tell them to pick Brady cause you can’t go against… you just know he’s gonna get you da dub in that situation

[@Gisburne2000]

But Mahomes only needs 13 seconds to do it. 😁

[@Luisperez-qx6id]

@@Gisburne2000you mean cheetah and kelce cause they did the work with yards after catch😂

[@Gisburne2000]

@@Luisperez-qx6id Did Brady throw to receivers or did he catch the ball too? It's a team sport, all QBs throw to their top clutch players who they know will finish the job. All except Dak Prescott, obviously.

[@devinbrooks3289]

@@Luisperez-qx6idhe had Wes walker, Randy moss, gronk, Aaron Hernandez, Branch, T.O. , Ocho Cinco, and Julian Edleman.

[@optimusprime4263]

what are you smoking? plenty of people would take mahomes

[@pcelis19]

They played in two very different eras. Off the bat pat is playing in more games. In a pass happy league. Tom was in run first league and when defenses were allowed to play defense. Pat is playing borderline 7on7. Ain’t even a debate. Tom well over Father Time beat him twice and those two times is one of the main difference why there is such a big difference in rings. Tom is the goat and it ain’t even close.

[@vinsanity982]

Yes he does. Yes, Patty Mahomy is insanely athletically talented, but that counts against him. Brady won 7 without all of those physical gifts. So yes, he needs to win at least 7 to be in the conversation

[@gerardbonner6464]

Tom Brady only outplayed Patrick one time, and that was in the Superbowl. For every other meeting, Patrick had better numbers all across the board

[@bigcohiba298]

And I'm sick of this whole talent nonsense. It's a team sport. Team achievement will always matter. Not some random cliche of what talent is

[@anubisathletics]

The really impressive thing that makes Tom Brady great, he was 199 in the drat. Probably should not be in the NFL after 3 seasons. Tom Brady was not a top pick, You don't expect a last round draft pick to become the GOAT, maybe a top 10 draft pick. Just imagine all the NFL teams thought 198 players were better than Tom in his draft class. And 6 quarterbacks were drafted ahead of him. Just having fun watching possible history in the NFL again.

[@xmandaboss1]

I will say in that super bowl Patrick’s blocking was non existent, I wish we could have seen them play when Patrick had blocking

[@YoMomma-zh9np]

Stop bringing up that choke artist lebron james in the same conversation as tom brady,jordan or mahomes

[@ebenezereghan6348]

It is not about how many rings or trophies but your overall performance.

[@ronaldbryant7710]

I am not sure what Basketball game you’re watching, because it’s a team game too. The only one on one game would be like golf, tennis, or pickle Ball. When means if LeBron and Michael did play against each other in the NBA it would be five on five, not one on one.

[@nxtro3882]

So in yall opinion Steph better than bron

[@420scene]

You could throw shade at Eli but he won in clutch moments where Aaron Rodgers…has not. Sorry, not sorry.

[@dariusjohnson6013]

Real talk this is the first time shady has made any sense on this show. He’s 100% right Brady didn’t need five rings to be better than Joe Jordan didn’t need six rings to be better than magic. so LeBron doesnt need six or seven rings Mahomes doesn’t need six or seven rings.

[@melusimoloi4947]

People arguing Mahomes over Brady don't understand the meaning of the word GREATEST. Mahomes is more talented, he's a more impressive QB so he is "better". Better isn't greater!! Tom Brady's greatness isnt his physical talent alone. It's his ability to draw on something to get results. The head to head matters because when all the chips were moved to the middle of the table, Brady trounced Mahomes!!! TROUNCED HIM

[@TDG796]

Weren't we just saying a few years ago that because Mahomes lost to Brady in the SB he will never catch Tom no matter what? Even if Mahomes somehow gets 7, you could still argue that he didn't beat Brady head to head.

[@brambo5670]

6 times, 3-3. Brady doesn’t play defense just like Mahomes doesn’t. Basketball, soccer, hockey they play both sides of the ball.

[@JuanMoreno-zl6gd]

By Acho’s logic Bill Russell is the goat with 11 Chips. Jordan and LeBron shouldn’t even be a discussion.

[@stephanea5364]

No because Russell doesn't have the stats and records, etc.

[@Dpalm310]

If Mahomes ends up with 6 it’s def a close call, but then the one Brady has an edge on is the one he beat Mahomes for so 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@maximuskeene8572]

acho makes a good point. we compare qbs head to head all the time. it's never, "it's not fair because qb1 faces qb2's defense, not qb2". none of that matters when comparing qbs now, so why does mahomes being 0-2 to brady somehow not count?

[@tonygonzalez9882]

They give mahomes credit for all the team success but not brady 😂😂 the glaze for mahomes is crazy. Moving the goalpost lower for mahomes like usual

[@derekhayes328]

Patrick is Michael Jordan and Tom is Bill Russell

[@stephanea5364]

Russell doesn,t have the ststs, records, Brady does. Weak comparison

[@keeseanbrown11]

Mahomes has already 2 regular season MVP’s , almost the same amount of first team all pros as tom in just 6 years( Tom played 23 years) and almost has like 7000 more passing yards, and this is just to start the career that’s crazy. Eye test clearly shows he’s better, but not more accomplished.

[@stephanea5364]

Because Mahomes has less competition at QB position.

[@HonoluluBluNSilver]

Its always hilarious with these GOAT conversations we gotta lower the bar so we can crown the next one. Last time i checked Brady passed Montana when he won 5 rings because the argument was Montana was perfect in SBs(4-0) and when Brady got 4 people used the 4-2 record against him. Youre given the GOAT status when you truly surpass the previous GOAT by doing something that no one has ever done. Mahomes has every opportunity needed barring injury to play for a long time and to at least match the rings or get 8. Stop lowering the GOAT standards

[@jakieresykes3644]

People can’t keep saying that it’s just about eye test and Physical Talent because if it’s just about Physical Talent and Skills the Tom Brady and Joe Montana are not even in the conversation for the greatest quarterback if it’s just about Talent the top quarterbacks in no particular order would be Peyton Manning Aaron Rodgers Patrick Mahomes John Elway and Dan Marino

[@TheTrajanValoris]

Mahommes has almost 30k passing yards before age 30, Tom Brady ended his career close to 90k and literally put up the stats for TWO HoF careers with 7 SB wins that's what you're going up against period. If you can't beat those stats then in my opinion no you won't pass Tom Brady as the GOAT.

[@keeseanbrown11]

In that afc championship game pats qbr is wayyyyy better and in that Super Bowl that man was literally running for his life. That one throw in the end zone where’s he’s getting hit sums up the night.