Does power cable size matter for running LEDs?

In this video we'll take a look if different cables sizes really matter for running LEDs. Do you really need 12AWG or 3.3mm2 or is 20AWG fine too? What problems does this cause and will it immediately result in a fire?
Jump links
0:26 - Wires and equipment used for testing
2:26 - Skipped 8AWG and 10AWG
5:08 - Preparing 12AWG cable!
7:39 - 12AWG CCA test
9:14 - 1x 12AWG 40Amps test
11:46 - 2x 12AWG 40Amps test
15:16 - 2x 16AWG 40Amps test
16:58 - Measure your own setups!
17:50 - 1x 16AWG 40Amps test
19:53 - 1x 20AWG 40Amps test
22:56 - uhoh, cable smoking a little bit!
24:13 - 1x short 24AWG tes....
25:10 - yeah euh, SMOKE!
26:10 - Power injection stream to learn
26:41 - End conclusions
📝 Discord 📝
If you still have any questions, let me know in the comments or join the Intermittent Technology Discord server here: / discord
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🌟 Various sizes silicone wires used
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🌟 Fork terminals for various size cables
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🌟 5v sk6812 RGBW 2m 144LEDs/m IP30 LED strip
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🌟 MeanWell UHP-500-5 80Amps 5v power supply
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🌟 Clear Heat Shrink for LED strip
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🌟 Aluminium profile bars
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🌟 Flir on phone thermal camera
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🌟 Other tools and equipment used
👉 quinled.info/2018/10/01/tools...
░▒▓[Associated blog post & Mentioned in the video]▓▒░
Original Full Length Livestream: • Intermit.Tech #028 - 4...
Voltage drop calculator: www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire...
AWG to mm2 converter: www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire...
LED controller used: quinled.info/pre-assembled-qu...
░▒▓[Music]▓▒░
Intro&Outro
TheFatRat - Xenogenesis
( • TheFatRat - Xenogenesi... )
During Video all music by Approaching Nirvana
( / approachingnirvana )

[@dtape]

I'm really glad that you did this livestream demonstration. I'm glad to know how to definitely figure out if my setup has the right gauge wires and is working properly. Just measure the voltage drops along the way! So simple and obvious I should have realized before, but failed to without your video! Thanks for the helpful content!

[@TheJoeFletch]

Being new to LEDs last year I struggled with the concerns over failures like this. This is exactly what I wanted to do, but didn't get around to doing it. I appreciate you doing it!

[@xKevmachinex]

I love watching, not just for the content, but because I can tell you enjoy doing this and I think that is more important then anything.

[@rolandtemmerman1100]

For DIYers who have worked on cars, it is well known that the wire thicknesses at 12 VDC are much higher than at voltage of 230 V AC at equal power. This was also true of earlier low voltage halogen lighting. So at low voltage you can easily see copper wire become a heating element unless you reduce its resistance by increasing its diameter.

[@sevagj.b]

Thanks Quindor, is always nice to learn from you

[@SethCohn23]

Thank you for doing the cutdown version...lots of good info in way less time to watch

[@davidthompson1583]

major kudos for the safety lesson

[@Alcatraz2k]

Great info

[@Psi105]

If you want to measure voltage drop in a cable you can just measure from one end of the cable to the other with the multimeter. It's cool to see a voltage on the meter when measuring a wire which is a dead short.

[@timpeterson2738]

Thanks

[@skorpyo331]

For the cheap dual 12v led strips for headlights in cars can i use 8 gauge power and ground wires connected to 18 gauge?

[@lightsoundtips1415]

Sir how to work led par lights on wled dmx output protocol

[@Banjoba]

This was too interesting! Also. Should we not equally be concerned about the power cabling going from the dig quad to the LED's themselves?

[@IntermitTech]

Yes and that is a bit under highlighted in this video but the power injection livestream (linked in the description) goes more into that how you want to keep those cables with a theoretical max of 10% drop too. Because at all points, it's just as important, maybe not so much for a fire (and that's why I have fuses on the boards) but more so to have a good and well functioning setup.

[@natejmedia]

I’m interested in that doc you talk about at the end - the scenario based, help build my own system document. I don’t see a link to it, it the page you’re referencing! Can you help? Thank you!!

[@idscomm]

So if I feed my Dig Quad with 2 12 a gauge wire, what would be your suggestion to feed my LED (5v WS2812B). I currently have a 16 gauge wire and I’m not sure how many strips I can feed from the Dig Quad board? I’ll have 7 Strips of 150 LED each (estimated power draw at 45w-9amp/strip) along my roof line. Would it be better to feed tue strips directly from my power supply 300W - 60amp?

[@Jesse_verheij]

hey great video! but I was wondering if it also works with solid copper wires. Many greetings also from the Netherlands.

[@Airbag888]

so power supply to digquad get a fat cable.. what about power for injection on a 12 v? especially if that cable needs to run like 15-30m from the digquad?

[@IntermitTech]

Your aswners are here: quinled.info/the-ultimate-led-strip-power-injection-guide/

[@nazimb1696]

I am setting up a new setup. I wanted to ask which DIG UNO you recommend and if they can handle 40A? Setup description: 25m total length of RGBW 12v 60/m strip (5 x 5m). Power supply will be 40A & about 450W. Can the they Dig Uno's handle 40A? I know you mentioned at the end of this video you had it to handle 50A, however is that just a specific one you built? thank you

[@Filipvdb]

The video shows a QuinLED-Dig-Quad board, not a QuinLED-Dig-Uno. We can help you out with details about setups, but it might be better to join the discord server and ask your questions there.

[@danny7902]

Hey, you can make on the board power input connectors for AWG10, then you don't have to connect 2 AWG12 cables...

[@IntermitTech]

Check out the new Dig-Octa series of boards, those are designed to handle higher amounts of power and this also more/thicker wires. :) Also the current Dig-Quad handles 2x 10AWG on the input no problem?

[@gaboaaa23]

hi, can i savely operate a 24V COB LED strip on 20-22AWG wires? The AC adapter puts out 24V 1,5A. The lenght of the wire is about 2 meter long. Ive cutted 6 pieces of 85 cm The COB Led Strip in paralel connection to it. Is this save or can it be that the wire starts to melt or burn? Thanks

[@IntermitTech]

Biggest issue I see there is the power supply being too small. You are using 5x 85cm so almost the full 5m and I'd use at least a 60w power supply for that or other heavily limit. 20AWG wire will be fine, especially since they are not that long and if run in parallel that means each wire only sees a little bit of current.

[@hernandezyo1971]

¡Gracias!

[@IntermitTech]

Thank you! Very much appreciated!

[@henkboeitniet1554]

Hi Quin! Toffe video weer! Momenteel ben ik bezig met het bedenken van een led cube installatie voor een grote schutting. Hoe kan ik het beste bepalen welke kabeldikte ik nodig heb? Rekening houdend met de afstand en het totale wattage per groep aan leds. Graag je reactie!!

[@IntermitTech]

Hey hey, bekijk eens 30 tot 40 minuten hiervan, dan weet je denk ik genoeg! quinled.info/2020/09/26/power-injection-livestream/

[@henkboeitniet1554]

@@IntermitTech Top, bedankt!

[@rachaelb9164]

So basically I can run 5v strips with less power injection by running it off of a 24v power supply and using buck converters just before the pigtails? I’m still pretty new to this stuff. Trying to decide what to get… 5v strips are cheaper and individually addressable but usually you need a ton of copper going into it.

[@IntermitTech]

Check this quinled.info/24v-power-distribution-for-5v-leds/

[@alexcarnegie3223]

A quick Q, if you don't mind: I'm making two projects: A: 256 WS2812B LEDs @ 5v - 20a PSU B: 576 WS2812B LEDs @ 5v - 40a PSU Each will have a cable of between a metre to 1.5m between PSU and the controller/LEDs. Therefore, which size of cables should I use? I'm thinking for A, I will need 2.5mm. For B, 6mm. What do you reckon? Thank you!!!

[@IntermitTech]

I don't know, I'd have to calculate it myself including injection points required and such, watch 30 mins or so of this and you should be able to figure it out! quinled.info/2020/09/26/power-injection-livestream/

[@Waterbottle365]

Hey there! Hoping you can help me out. I recently watched your video on using Xiaomi sensors for your heating/cooling system. I am looking to do something similar, but I need some advice: I have an ecobee thermostat connected to my forced air system in the house. There are no zones, just one thermostat. I am looking to buy a bunch of Aqara temperature sensors to place around the house and gather information into Home Assistant. What I would like to do is use the average from those sensors to trigger the ecobee thermostat. Any ideas on how to do this? Or do you have a better idea?

[@IntermitTech]

Oh wow, that's a very different topic but sure. If you can gather all the data into Home Assistant and make it gather in a aggregate entity that will trigger the Ecobee that could work, sure. But you are kind of mixing 2 ideas here. A room/zone control system and a central heating system. If one room would be 18c and another 24c the average would be 21c so the thermostat would stay off while the 18c room would be too cold. I think it's better to take in all the data per room/zone and then trigger heating once one gets too cold. But then other rooms might get too hot. Not sure how to solve that really.

[@Waterbottle365]

@@IntermitTech Gotcha. Thanks for replying. Just subbed and looking forward to more videos!

[@SmartLifeEnthusiast]

@@Waterbottle365 Linus Tech Tips tried to build his own zone control using valves in the forced air system. Many people however warned him for damaging the engine of the system as you're adding pressure to the system when closing valves, which may become too much for the engine to handle.

[@USA__2023]

I'm curious , why didn't you measure the voltage drop across the cable? Depending on your meter it should be the same as the value you got by subtracting.

[@IntermitTech]

True but this was mainly to showcase a "real world" scenario where people doing this time selves can relate to, even with little knowledge about the subject. I often get into discussion about current and voltage as the result if I'll chosen wiring diameters and such, often their remake is "but so and so shows that he does it that way", well then I point them to this video and show that can't be so, but reality just dienst bend that way and stiphout actual numbers and measurements, it's bogus. So I tried to show that in the simplest way possible they can also re-create. :)

[@jeverett0902]

If dual 12AWG is good for the dig-quad v3, with the two bigger power inputs, what’s best case for the 3 smaller power inputs of the dig-quad v2? Will the older power input terminals take 16AWG, or just 18AWG tops? What would be the best strategy for going from a power supply, like the UHP-500-5, with two power outputs (per polarity) to a dig-quad v2 with 3 power inputs?

[@IntermitTech]

Ah, yeah the UHP-500 with 2 outputs makes the old one a bit more difficult. They should take 16AWG with ferrules (flatten slightly after crimping). You can try running 3 conductors but it's hard to say how the current is going to spread. Generally people use the LRS series with 3 outputs for those. But as long as you keep all wire sizes the exact same length, in theory the current will spread over all of them.

[@jeverett0902]

@@IntermitTech Is it right that 16AWG is good for 17 amps, so 2 16AWG wires into the dig-quad would be good for the specified 30 amp constant operation of the dig-quad? And that setting the WLED brightness limiter to stay within that spec with such a configuration would keep everything safe? Is there a similar brightness/power limiter in WLED for segments/combos of segments, to keep the separate segments outputs of the dig-quad automatically within the amount of power each one/combo is fused for (in software, rather than having to blow a fuse)?

[@ryanshea5221]

What type of insulation are you using that 135c didn't melt your cables? I'm having a really hard time finding information on the max temperatures of different types of insulation.

[@IntermitTech]

That's silicone cable, rated up to 200c. But if your cables are getting that hot you're having horrible voltage drop already and need to scale a few sizes thicker.

[@JB-fh1bb]

I have a "weird" question: Is there any down-side (besides cost and tight fits) to using a way larger cable than needed? Like: It would be a rare one that would do it, but could someone wire 1x WS2812B with only 0 gauge wire and have it work? Would they end up with super clean power and signal?

[@IntermitTech]

Sure yeah, in theory no down side really, 0 gauge is a bit insane and maybe using it as a bus wire is better, but still.

[@USA__2023]

No, no downside except what you mentioned. I design control systems and always over rate the wire. No hot wiring in my systems. :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWWlqatrmc1-ndU

[@ubabu952]

What guage wire from meanwell to digiquad controller

[@IntermitTech]

I'd recommend 2x 10AWG if you can get it, otherwise 2x 12AWG. Also take a look here quinled.info/fork-crimps-for-quinled-boards/

[@maxpetion2689]

How do I know if I should double up from the power supply to the dig quad?

[@IntermitTech]

It really depends on expected power draw but especially for 5v systems it can be important to minimize voltage drop on the input lines as much as possible. Just use whatever size cable you got and at lesdt run 2 of those. Ideally if you really want to push up to 30Amps I'd advise 2x12AWG at least.

[@coreyevans9543]

What would be the best wire to use in a setup for 5V 60AMP 300watt?

[@IntermitTech]

That really depends, the best way is to have a fused distribution point like a Dig-Quad or Dig-Octa. You run the 60A into there and the split up the wires and calculate each wire diameter as needed. You then fuse for that wire diameter and everything is safe. There is no one size fits all. 18AWG might be fine for a 5A injection at 2m/6ft but it's horrible wrong for a 5A injection at 10m/32ft. Give this a watch and you'll understand and know how to do it perfectly safe: quinled.info/the-ultimate-led-strip-power-injection-guide/

[@coreyevans9543]

@@IntermitTech Thanks. Appreciate the help.

[@scotprice8553]

what size are the cables going out to power the light strips?

[@andrewlheureux9743]

Looks like 18awg

[@mikewest13]

Hey, QQ -- when adding an external power supply (12v 20A), do I wire the 3 power outputs to the digquad, or just 1 and use the other 2 for power injection direct down the line?

[@IntermitTech]

Wire it all to the Dig-Quad to limit voltage drop to the board and the use the built-in power distribution and fusing for injection runs.

[@mikewest13]

@@IntermitTech so that's what I've done now, but still can't get past 30% brightness on my set up - 12v 30A power supply, 3x 5M strips (12v) power injected at end of first and beginning of third. When I go above 30% the last strip starts to turn random colors. Is it simply that I have to inject at the end as well?

[@IntermitTech]

Hmm, not sure what's going on, can you join the Discord? Easier to troubleshoot on there. :)

[@mikewest13]

@@IntermitTech yup, will do, thanks

[@mr2_mike]

@@mikewest13 what was the final verdict? Injection at end of line too? Or wire gauge?

[@danielbass09]

So from this 12 volt LEDs are better then… not as much voltage drop.

[@maxwisner5316]

Great Video👍 One quick Question if u don't mind: I want to power 900 5v sk6812 LEDs. I researched quite a while but I still don't have an satisfying answer: will one 60 amp supply be enough or do I need to buy one more, and which wires should I use? I would be very happy about an answer and sorry for my bad English:)

[@IntermitTech]

Watch at least 30 to 45 minutes of this and take a look at the document and you'll be able to calculate all of those questions for your exact situation! quinled.info/2020/09/26/power-injection-livestream/

[@aijokker]

Does it?

[@Rene-kg7pf]

In my project I have a 10 metre led strip... and I use 3 injections (including the start of the strip.. middle and end) ... I have quite long cables running to as example the end of the entire strip... Its a 12 metre long cable but though "only" 14 AWG (1.5mm²) ... its not getting warm (the cable) and it outputs almost (after the 12 metre length) exactly same voltage as its getting in from the power supply (seems like no loss of voltage) .. also when I look up in different tables then it should be OK what I'm doing ... as example a cable with thickness 14 awg should be able to run 10-16 amperes ... (times 3 because I have 3 injections) ... power supply is 40 ampere 5v ... and I will max use in total white and full brightness 36 ampere (well less coz I have cut off some length of the 10 metre strip)... but that's not the point mainly my point here is to just reflect my understanding here regarding cable thickness.... When something is getting warm... Its usually because there's something requesting alot amperes ... In my case I split up the ampere usage into 3 cables so it should be good enough I'm not gonna try to run with even bigger cable like 12 AWG... 14AWG should be OK in my project according to "all" tables that talk about cable thickness... But I agree it is important to focus on 👍

[@IntermitTech]

Whar type of LED strip are we talking? Cause that's important information too. A single injection point will generally only take in 4Amps at an edge and about double that in the middle: quinled.info/should-you-replace-wires-on-led-strip/ So with 3 injection points that already limits you to 4 + 8 + 4Amps so 16Amps max in total. This also means the furthest away point at 15m let's say will use max 4Amps. Looking at the voltage drop calculator that gives us a figure of 8% drop for 12v when using 14AWG cable which is below the 10% I recommend. So in those regards, you're ok.

[@Rene-kg7pf]

@@IntermitTech yeah ofc it's ws2812b 60 leds per metre

[@IntermitTech]

Right excellent. So according to the real world power sheet (quinled.info/2020/03/12/digital-led-power-usage/) ws2812b with 60LEDs per meter uses a maximum of 13Amps for 100% RGB white. So with 2 of those were looking at a max usage of 26Amps. A bit above your current maximum of 16Amps you can get into the strip. However, we generally don't run "white" with RGB LEDs because it's horrible. So for general usage we can assume half the power which will be sufficient for any single color or effect according to the tables (all in watts). That brings total usage to about 13Amps, which is below the 16Amps maximum you can currently supply to the strip. The middle injection can also supply up to 8Amps but because the cable is half the length of the end injection cable, you're still fine there too. So yeah, excellent, seems like you're all set!

[@IntermitTech]

Oh and about the cable, I generally just look at voltage drop and try to stay below 10% that way you always end up with the exact size needed. :)

[@lightsoundtips1415]

Can make this on a vedio sir

[@Bonsai_Core]

Hey 1 Question when the hole led strip can draw 90w (20 Amps) why did the manufacturer puts those thin wires on that strip? Isnt that risky? I mean i know how i can set everything up with wled so it draws less and that not all RGB Leds are on the same time but i could if i want to. And the manufacturer has to insure i can run his product on full power. Why those fucking thin wires i dont get it

[@IntermitTech]

That's actually a common misconception, the little wires aren't the issue, here are some test when replacing them: quinled.info/should-you-replace-wires-on-led-strip/ as you can see replacing the wires actually makes little to no difference even using 16AWG. It's only when we add an injection at the end of the strip does the actual current making it into the strip double. So those tiny wires aren't the issue, it's the strip material itself, it just doesn't have the amount of copper needed to carry more current over distance (the further it needs to go, the more copper you need for voltage not to sag). And thus that's why we need injection points along the strip (like middle and end for 5v 60LEDS/m stuff)! Hopefully that explains it a bit better. And yes they can produce strip material thicker, but next to becoming multiple times as expensive, it also becomes a bit more unwieldy and in worst case, prone to breaking. Still with some analog stuff I recommend they use 3oz or even 4oz, but the price reflects that.

[@thelastengineer8633]

try breaking a board next time xD

[@IntermitTech]

The board itself? Poh... It's quite over engineers in that sense, and with the protections in place in theory it should never happen. It would require well over 150A I think for it really to break. Not really sure since as said the protections built in will prevent this from ever happening.

[@thelastengineer8633]

@@IntermitTech * sad noises * well okay but speaks for the board xD

[@thelastengineer8633]

@@IntermitTech but wow the little lines from power to power to the leds can handly that much amps wow

[@jeffro.]

If you're a "Dutch guy," then why do you use the British method of pronouncing "aluminum" (4 syllables) by adding another syllable (5 syllables) as "alimin-i-um"? Why not just pronounce it correctly? I don't understand why UK folks do dat. BTW, aluminum is a fair conductor. I think the reason why the "copper-clad" wires burn up when hot is cuz they're mostly zinc. It has a low melting point, and not so conductive. BTW, the main reason for not using aluminum is it's not so flexible, also mixing with copper connections results in dissimilar metal joints, causing electrolysis, or corrosion.

[@jeffro.]

"LED current... that's a thing now." Lol. Yeah, it's a thing. Maybe just "electrical current." Everything runs on electric current, so ppl shouldn't unnder-stand it, they should understand it. Yonk. Don't use 8 or 10 guage wire for LEDs! It's too thick.

[@jameswiser]

Cut to the chase. I did not want to watch you test burn wire and learn how to crip.

[@IntermitTech]

Learn to use the description and jump links, it's all right there. ;) But honestly, that's why the links are there, this was a livestream so it is more long winded, even cut up. But with the links I'd say it's perfectly doable. :)

[@rubberchuck5]

if your smart enough to know how to wire your leds then this vid is useless and why are you only using low voltage cable 12/24volt ,dont they do leds in 240v too ?

[@USA__2023]

I would have to disagree with you. I've been in electronics for over 30 years and lots of people can wire something and have no idea why it doesn't work. I didn't watch the entire vid but bottom line is... you need to learn about current and voltage drop so you can use the correct wiring. Simple ohms law.

[@bradhabeeb306]

the video is too looooong

[@blakeaustin8835]

Twas nearly a 3hr stream, so not quite.