Does the NOCO Genius5 charge better a than CTEK MXS 5.0 ???. NOCO Parametric Test Part 5

[@x9moto]

I know its been a while since your first video and i only discovered this series after my battery bank failed a week ago and i bought a Noco Genius 10 to try and repair them. Your videos are very informative and exactly what a test should be showcasing results properly. Now i have been testing mine on a spare old battery because the main bank has been returned for a warrenty evaluation since it was found to be under 2 years old. Anyway i bought the Noco before i knew this to try and save them, they all had atleast one sulfated cell and would not run a 15amp dashboard heater for more than 8 mins. The spare battery was from the previous bank which went the same way so its atleast 8 years old. It would run for 8 mins at 15 amps after a full Noco charge. I tried a large number of charge discharge cycles without repair mode and found no change in runtime. I ran the repair mode for one cycle and no change 2 cycles back to back after this and maybe 30 sec change. Then after reading some peoples data about desulfater saying that it takes a long time to reverse years of damage i decided to just run it for days back to back resetting the mode each time it stopped. Testing every 2 days with a discharge and recharge i started to see a gradual increase of about 5 mins each 2 days. After running the noco repair mode non stop for 2 weeks i now have a runtime of 40mins on the same load, so for atleast this battery it is slowly recovering some lost capacity. Im going to keep going untill there is no further improvement and see how far it will go. The battery on test is a 120amp "superbattery" brand. My conclusion so far is that the repair mode really works atleast on the genius 10, maybe its a scale thing having enough amps to do the deed or maybe its time. Anyway i will comment the final capacity or runtime increase once there is no further gain. Edit: after 4 more back to back cycles its at 1 hour at 15amps and increasing steadily. So my take is that its much harder to break down the sulfate initially when theres a high resistance, once that is overcome progress is much swifter. Also the pulse voltages initially were low but have now started to hit 16v rather than low 15v so this seems to be an indicator progress is being made.

[@razenby]

Thanks for the comment. Older batteries - the plain wet-cell-non-sealed type respond quite well to repair schemes.. I have never seen any really meaningful results on modern valve regulates sealed lead acid batteries. I live in hope...

[@x9moto]

@@razenby mine are valve regulated

[@andymunoz7885]

love the noco genius 5 I have an AGM battery on my EVO 8 and it's only a weekend car no worries it works great. Love it.

[@razenby]

Pleased you found it useful.

[@gandalffotsvett9435]

Wery nice video about battery charger. Would like to see the same test for UK made Victron blue 5A smart charger that we use here in Sweden for ouer boat batteries and motorbikes. Even the Optimate 4 charger would be interesting to test. Your videos are the best and most professional I have ever seen on the tube. Brought real knowledge and joy to me. //Mike

[@razenby]

You are welcome. The main ones that people have been asking for is the Optimate and the Bosch. I have an Optimate here but need to get a Bosch one to do the testing. I'l have a look at doing it.

[@derekmartin8498]

I connected my ctek to my car battery yesterday and decided to connect my voltmeter also after watching one of your videos. I had ran the engine for 5 minutes prior so the initial battery voltage was 13.8v. This is an old classic car and had a weak crank on initial start up which is why I was charging it( voltage drop to 9.3v cranking) I never let this battery drop below 12.5v so not being driven so often may of affected it and being 7years old. Anyway a minute or so after connecting the ctek I noticed my battery voltage was reading 19.5v. So I disconnected the ctek and turned the headlights on for two minutes to bring the surface charge back down to 12.8v, then I reconnected the ctek and everything went back to normal and was charging around 14v. I don’t usually connect the ctek after running the vehicle so it probably hasn’t happened much in the past but I do remember about a year ago disconnecting the ctek after a couple weeks on the vehicle and seeing a high number I think around 16v. I assume that if you connect the ctek to a battery with a higher than normal state of charge it doesn’t see this and just continues its bulk charge in stage 3. Also I’m no expert so I could be doing something wrong just thought I would add my experience with the ctek the comments. Also battery is cranking fine now at 10.2v even today so battery is fine. Ctek has worked well for me in the past I have 3 and no major problems so not knocking the product at all.

[@razenby]

Interesting.

[@irionpleione8312]

After all the effort you’ve put into this whole matter I’d conclude that it comes down to only one point: the charger’s quality of construction (durability and ease of repair). A charger that lasts for a long time is a better investment, causes less electronic waste and can be used on a regular base, which is, as far the battery is concerned, the most important aspect. The chief mechanic of the biggest general car repair shop in the region explained it to me like this; modern cars are stuffed with electric consumers that slowly drain the battery when the car is not in use, causing at least partial discharges at the first opportunity. That’s why the life span of the batteries has gone down drastically in the last years (during winter they get a huge weekly delivery of new batteries). With a modern car one practically owns a plug-in hybrid; if you want your new battery to last, I was told, connect it to a charger once the car is parked in the garage, especially in winter. A comment regarding CTEK vs NOCO; seeing the graphs, Noco is straightforward about its task, while CTEK does a political mess. Considering that CTEK’s construction is faulty, Noco seems the clear winner of the two. The fancy reconditioning mode is nothing more that a short and limited rise of voltage, which can’t influence the stability of the crystalline deposits in any tangible extent and therefore break it down. Therefore, regularly plugging-in the new battery once the car is parked seems the only way to avoid filling the bank accounts of the battery producers; for this we need a sturdy, quality battery charger that lasts for a long time.

[@razenby]

thank you for the comment. I agree. I present the evidence. You decide. Personally, I wouldn't trust a mechanics views on complex electrical issues. Whilst the car is parked it draws current for the alarm circuit and alarm sensors. This probably in the order of 100 to 200 mA. You can do the math when the car is parked up. The other problem is that on short runs you cannot complete the float charge so most town cars are driving around with the battery typically at 80% charge. After being parked for a while, the battery in a car that struggles to start has 14.4V at near full alternator capacity stuffed into it. This is not good. All battery lead is recycled and the purity is questionable. The latest stop-start cars have much better batteries that are very accurately managed by the electronics. The quality of new batteries has deteriorated to just be over the line. There is no honest quantitative test when claiming under battery warranty. It is a huge business. Many ridiculous marketing claims for these reconditioning chargers.

[@irionpleione8312]

@@razenby Thank you for your amazing technical reviews! Actually, now you’ve repeated exactly the same as the mechanic said about the quality of the new classic batteries getting worse and worse. The whole battery chain makes truckloads of money lately. After shorter trips (groceries, errands) it really extends the battery life of one regularly connects it to a charger. Something I started to do only one month ago; I’ve surely shortened the life span of both batteries. By the way, five very cold days while the car was parked have drastically reduced the voltage of my 5 year old Varta Silver Dynamic 85Ah; from 12,7V to 12,43V.

[@razenby]

@@irionpleione8312 Good points.

[@dacomaniac]

That is a very good habbit...when u start the car u kill battery...after one start u must go for 100 km to put the curent back

[@razenby]

@@dacomaniac 300A for 5 Seconds = 0.4aH. It is prolonged parking not starting that wears the battery down.

[@MisterDeets]

One thing I heard and have seen about the act of desulfating a battery requires multiple charge and discharge cycles to see the results of the procedure. I have seen a lot of videos where the repair cycle seems to have brought previously useless batteries back into service. Given the many causes of battery failure, some didn't get "repaired" and some did...

[@razenby]

Maybe standard wet lead acid cells but not VRLA staring batteries. Urban myth. Getting the correct terminal voltage and starting the car isn't the same as restoring a useful AH capacity. The dealer is instructed as follows, I quote: 'If terminal voltage is below 11.6V battery is irreparably damaged and will never recover full capacity. It must be scrapped'

[@josemedeiros007]

Great review and test of Ctek and Noco battery chargers. I'd like to see you test PulseTech Battery Charger's and PowerPulse passive battery desulfators. I use a PulseTech Power Pulse battery desulfator that you leave on your battery at all times, PulseTech claims that it will extend the battery life up to three times, and uses a patented frequency rather than use voltage spikes.

[@razenby]

Pulsetech aren't available in the UK. If someone could send me one I would test it.

[@paulmuff9883]

Very informative, Nice to see you’re a JAGMAN it’s all vintage Jags I’m restoring now , looking forward to you testing out the battery testers as I have both the old-fashioned drop tester and the new electronic gadget similar to the one you’re showing I found it quite good.

[@razenby]

Hi Paul. Yes, every man should have a Jaaaag! Encouraging that you find the conductance tester is good. Is it the same manufacturer as the one I have?

[@paulmuff9883]

@@razenby hi it’s a CENT-TECH

[@razenby]

@@paulmuff9883 Haven't tried that one.

[@patricklindahl868]

About the Vident Battery Analyser, I haven't used that one but the one from Ctek and found it very useful. But (there's always a 'but') it has to be properly connected. I once connected it to a battery which was rated 800 Amps EN, and got 250 Amps EN back. Then I tightened the screws on it by hand and got 480 EN. Then i took a wrench and firmly tightened the screws and got 750 Amp EN. Since this instrument is measuring mOhm, the slightest glitch leaves a faulty result.

[@razenby]

Thanks for the insight. It is not surprising as they just test the trans-conductance impedance of the battery. They are effectively a very low low ohm meter so any milliohms in the connections will affect the reading..

[@danewell1952]

Great videos and Channel. Did you get round to checking/reviewing the Vident Battery Analyser iBT 100, would be interested in your opinion of this type of device, Thanks.

[@michaelhallett3756]

The user manual states that once the Noco G5 has completed charging the battery it can remain connected indefinitely to provide background charging . In the 12v mode it does this by switching off the charging current (large LED is lit without pulsing) allowing the battery to relax to 12.8v +/-0.2v. Then it restarts charging at 186mA until some upper voltage and repeats the cycle. However, with my FLA deep cycle battery, after the initial charge and following relaxation, the charger restarts and remains charging at 186mA indefinitely . The voltage generally never goes above 13.7 volts at this current. The battery's manufacturer recommends a long-term "float" voltage of 13.3 to 13.5 which results in a lower current of about 70mA and less electrolysis. Hence I prefer to leave the battery connected at 13.45v to a cheap CC, CV power supply PS for long-term storage. However, I can also use the PS to charge the battery reliably from flat providing I remember to change the CV and CC set points after saturation charging. I also haven't found that 12v repair mode makes any discernible difference to the battery's capacity so I assume it's a marketing mode. The battery's manufacturer recommends a 24 hour equalisation charge at 14.4 volt following a full charge 2 to 3 times year, which is what I usually do anyway using the PS. In summary for my application a PS provides better results than the Noco G5 for the same cost and is more versatile around the electronics lab. However, for saturation battery charging in a car or caravan the Noco has the advantage as it's more robust.

[@razenby]

Thanks for the comment. All sounds very feasible but not the best scheme unless you are prepared to run out and adjust the power supply voltage manually to compensate for temperature. You may want to reconsider as maintaining with constant voltage at 2.40V to 2.45V /cell (14.4V subjects the battery to plate corrosion). 2.30V to 2.35V/Cell gives maximum battery life but reduced capacity due to limited sulfate crystal mas forming. This will be exacerbated if you don't compensate for temperature. So, the best way is to allow the battery to relax in a fully charged condition and when 5% to 12% self discharge is is detected, apply an absorption float charge up to a temperature compensated terminal voltage is reached (nominal 14.4V +- temp compensation) . Therefore a good smart charger is much better than a CV power scheme. The manufacturer's data is for resellers to keep batteries in storage in a sufficiently good condition to be sold. The problem for the user is which charger does what is says on the box?

[@ffighter6932]

What is this PS you keep mentioning?

[@yankodimitrov5246]

So for General Motorcycle and Car charging better go for the CTEK or NOCO. Sorry just got lost in all the data. Motorcycle charging is a must

[@razenby]

What Ah and voltage is your motorcycle battery?

[@yankodimitrov5246]

@@razenby 12v 9ah AGM one

[@razenby]

@@yankodimitrov5246 Do you want to charge it when it is run down only, or charge AND maintain whilst the bike is infrequently ridden?

[@yankodimitrov5246]

​@Magic Smoke Mostly just charging. When It needs it. The noco looked good but, I'm not sure it has low amp charging mode. Even though they say it is ok for Motorcycles

[@razenby]

@@yankodimitrov5246 Out of the ones I have tried, the Noco Genius 2 would be the best for your battery. It has very good accuracy and consistency on the terminal voltage measurement and charge current is limited to 1.8 A. The the max charging current for most ~9Ah AGM batteries is specified as max 3 amps so you are well withing the max. The Noco 2 has an AGM setting and is well made.

[@btbd2785]

From what I have been reading , it seems that the most effective way to "desulphate" a battery is not with pumping the battery with high voltage like most of these chargers do, which include NOCO and the CTEK. instead, proper delsulfators use high frequencies.

[@razenby]

Interesting. I have read a lot of info but none of it substantiated. Modern Valve Regulated Sealed Lead-acid batteries don't really respond to repair and if it are so far gone as to be noticeable by bad cranking then it is time to replace it. Now, if you are asking if a frequently driven car's starting battery will benefit from a good three stage charge every couple of months during winter?? The answer is definitely yes. We bought my Wife's Mercedes new in 2008 and now 16 years later with 188K miles on the clock had the original battery was replaced in 2021 because it was showing signs of fatigue.

[@btbd2785]

so regular modern sealed lead acid batteries do not respond well to repair aka (desulsulfaton and or destartification)? so I am curious then how do some of these channels who do test them out on sealed lead acid batteries do have successes then? Or is it just garbage? If that's the case, then I should return my NOCO 10 and not bother trying to repair my battery. Instead, just purchase a 1.5 or 2 amp battery tender and then just buy a new battery as well. Thanks for the information; it's greatly appreciated👍

[@guilhermeg345]

Magic Smoke, in cars with start stop that there is a battery sensor on the negative post, in the workshop manual it says when recharging the battery, it should be connected to the car so it knows it was recharged. So the charger negative clamp should be connected to the indicated ground bolt in the chassis but I measured the voltage on the bolt at 0.4v but If I put the probe on the actual cable where the bolt is tighten it measures the right voltage, 12.66v. How can the charger detect the voltage of the battery that way ? The clamp can't touch the actual ground cable to the battery only the bolt that holds it.

[@razenby]

Good point. What does the charger user manual say? My experience of Land Rover and Mercedes vehicles is that the Battery management/monitoring modules / program, doesn't know it's arse from a hole in the ground. I have direct experience - they are very flawed and cause millions of serviceable batteries to be scrapped. . I have a battery that was stopped the auto stop-starting on my Range rover two years ago that is working just fine in my Jaguar XK two years later. The whole debacle is a travesty that the public is paying for.

[@10tigre1010]

Hello, I would like to hear your valuable opinion. I have a Ctek CS Free. Ctek statements that all of its chargers are spark free, but my situation was different: With the charger turned off, I connected the positive clamp in the car battery and then the negative clamp in the specific place on the engine block (engine eyelet). But in this case, when connected the negative clamp, a spark appeared (keeping the charger turned off). I asked to Ctek support but they didn´t answer my ask. The Ctek response was: "When the charger is completely shut down you should not see any spark when connecting it to a battery. When it is turned on before connecting it to the battery there is a possibility that you might see a small spark. No need for concern though since CTEK charger are safe on vehicle electronics, even if polarity was crossed when connecting it to the battery". As you can see they tried to evade the issue because of the type of response they did. The next day I tried to connect the CS Free again in the same way and there wasn´t spark. According to your experience, What about this behavior of this CS Free taking into account that Ctek chargers are spark free? What would be the meaning of "spark free"? How would I be able to avoid this spark issue which apparently can appear in some situation and not in others? Thanks in advance.

[@razenby]

Electronically it would be easy to design a circuit that operates spark free. If you sense the battery voltage with a low current, then when it is stable (i.e. battery connected) you could commence with the drive of charge current. If reverse connected then just flash an error. I guess if the terminals are corroded or dirty or the clamp is not making good contact you could get a spark as the integrity of the connection breaks down. With sealed VRLA batteries the spark is not such an issue as it is with standard vented flooded wet cell batteries. The manufacturers make outlandish claims for their chargers - indeed the MXS5.0 does not follow the charge profiles in the user instructions and shown on the packaging. To an experienced designer it is child's play to design a reliable charger. Their trick is marketing to such an extent that they can charge very high prices and you don't have to make it reliable or use the best quality components or surveil and test the product during manufacture. I have lost count of how many CTEKs I have fixed that were supposed to be thrown away by the customer in order to receive their warranty replacement,

[@10tigre1010]

@@razenby Thank you very much for your comment. I have a Noco genius 5 and it is the best for me. I purchased that Ctek because I needed a charger in a place without current to plug the charger, and Noco does´t have this type of portable charger.

[@razenby]

@@10tigre1010 No problem. All the comments are useful. Viewers read them a lot. Pls remember to subscribe. Thanks.

[@richardlouie2922]

I find it funny that many of my local battery vendors use a conductance tester (much like what you have) to test their batteries for warranty claims but yet some battery manufacturers discredit these products. IRT the 500 AMP carbon pile load tester, according to the meter on the left of the tester, it does do 1000 CCA.

[@jusb1066]

Because non of the manufacturers want to tell you what the testing procedure is, because none of them will stand by their warranty

[@razenby]

@@jusb1066This battery in the video is manufactured by Yaesu, I have read several agent manuals and I see that there is just about no warranty. at all. Every path except one in the procedure leads to 'BATTERY ABUSE - REJECT CLAIM' The only warranty claim accepted is when the battery is open circuit. However, in the UK, I have to say that Halfords in Reading are excellent when presented with failing battery under warranty and a receipt.

[@razenby]

I agree. I know that they wont accept a claim based on the readings of conductance testers. I dare say that some agents choose to reject claims based on these meters. The pile charger's capability is to load at 500 amps. to says wind to half CCA and wait 15 seconds then read the meter. The 1000A CCA scale is a marketing tool to make it more salable. It will only draw 500 amps max. There are several iterations of the CCA specifications. The test mus be at -18 deg C and hold the specified CCA current whilst maintaining the the terminal voltage above 7 volts. (various specs). Some specs have multiple cycles of load. The Carbon pile tester I have is 20 years old. It is gives a reasonable indication of condition but not relative to the regulation spec. It has limitations: 1. It is limited to 500A full deflection so it can only do a full current CCA test of small batteries. In a domestic freezer you could approximately test to the spec by manually adjusting the current to keep it at the target CCA during the test. 2. It does not keep the battery current at CCA as it is resistance based rather than self adjusting (constant current).

[@jusb1066]

@@razenby I have three years of readings on what is now a 6yo battery in my car, from my analyser. Taken at 0c each winter. Battery health percentage (meters own report) drops 5 percent a year so far, the tester is only just passing the battery as good this winter,. The car has never failed to start, once it says battery health is around 60% it will say fail. The battery is rated at 300en,. The tester says it's currently producing 255, and 63 percent healthy, which as I said the tester believes it's close to borderline. in order to get it to pass I had to get the battery a 5-day float, then rest. It's looking like where it calls it a fail, is the point of rapid degradation, where your Halfords battery seems to be. OEM yuasa fitted to Toyota

[@richardlouie2922]

@@jusb1066 Is that battery supplied by the car OE or was it aftermarket? I've found that OE supplied batteries are generally lower in specifications/performance than aftermarket (ie an OE battery may output 390 CCA while a replacement aftermarket would output 550 CCA for the same size battery). As such, a 'failure' from a analyzer due to lower outputs (ie the health percentage dropping below 60%) on an aftermarket battery may not really be a true failure in relation to the OE supplied battery as the aftermarket one will still be outputting more power than a 'good' OE battery.

[@duncho1]

To me it looks like the CTEK reconditioning mode is more efficient (1.32Ah capacity gain) than Noco Genius 5 repair mode is (0.54Ah capacity decrease). Important to take in to consideration that the battery was more exhausted by these full charge/discharge cycles when CTEK recon mode was used. Or am I reading your measures wrong?

[@razenby]

Ctek Recond charge was 1,32 Ah more than the CTEK standard charge and 0.22 Ah better than the last NOCO charge. I am waiting for a battery manufacturer tech expert to call me back. I logged a few questions that they are referring to the development team. I don't believe a sample of one battery tested is conclusive. It could have been miraculous and we would have seen it work. But we did not. I have another battery taken out of service from my daily driver last week at the recommendation of the service agent. . The starter didn't quite as chirpy as usual starting in the recent really cold mornings (By southern UK standards-2 deg ). Otherwise I didn't notice anything awry with it. Anyway, here it is on the floor undergoing similar tests. Results soon.

[@steveng5503]

Sorry if you’ve covered this… I’m wondering about the maintenance charge. I’d take a guess and suggest this would be the same throughout the Noco Genius range of chargers…. I.E. same V and A are supplied to battery after the initial charge. Could I be correct? Very good videos BTW. 👍🏻✌🏻🇬🇧

[@razenby]

Maintenance charges that hold the full charge voltage are no good. It is important to discriminate between maintaining the charge and condition of a lone battery AND a battery that has a parasitic load such as a car alarm. If a battery is disconnected the just charge it every 4 to six months. Otherwise a maintenance charger is required. This is where the problems start. If the charger smart enough then a parasitic load can prevent the charger from reaching the target voltage during the float absorption stage. We have to distinguish between full charge voltage and resting voltage. I have NOCO genius 2 connected to my XKR jaguar for the last five years and it works great.

[@steveng5503]

@@razenby Interesting. Very interesting. I do have some knowledge of lead acid batteries through job but not in such an application. I have a BMW that has the charging points under the hood. It’s recommended not to charge at the battery due to the IBS that’s connected in series. Crossed my mind to disconnect the battery and charge it directly as I can’t seem to get the terminal voltage above 11.9. Using a genius 10 and a AGM battery 6 months old. I suspected the parasitic draw could be such that the charger fails to achieve target V after 24 hour charge. Think I’ll use a clamp meter to record the cars demand when locked up and have another look. Thanks for your videos and comments.

[@dacomaniac]

Brilliant. I'm not very good. I graduated from an economic faculty.but I am very passionate.it is magnificent what you do but I have a question on the chart i understand that ctek has been running only 24 hours ore.programul the desulfation is spread over 10 days.you think the situation would have been after the 10 days another?And you think we could see how the CCA develops?Can you find a way to measure CCA? Where have you been in the last 3 years that i have been trying hard to find out the mysteries behind the batteries and chargers? "I appreciate your work and your knowledge!!

[@razenby]

I haven't witnessed any other activity on the charge after the completion of the initial stages, Until proven otherwise I assume that the 7 day claim is just smoke and mirrors.

[@blooey2]

I found an interesting response online from NOCO, regarding the repair algorithm. They claim repair mode first charges the battery to 14.8V. Only once 14.8V is held, does the current pulse charge begin. It stops the charge at 16.5V. If these voltage thresholds are not met within 4 hours, the repair mode will time-out. Hopefully this sheds some light on the algorithm. I see now why they recommend a fully charged battery (solid green) when entering repair mode. It could waste some, or all of that 4 hour timeout just reaching 14.8V.

[@razenby]

Interesting. I haven't seen that happen. I have seen the CTEK do this I definitely haven't seen the NOCI battery voltage go that high, Which NOC model were they referring to. Let me know and I will check and report.

[@balicrimechannel8143]

Thanks again for yet another conclusive test; it's really helping me decide on a charger for my classic car. Now we know that the recondition mode is irrelevant, I'd be curious to see Noco Genius 5 (5 amp) on a straight charge vs Noco Genius 2 (2 amp) on a straight charge (over a longer period of time) to see if one restores more cpapcity than the other.

[@razenby]

No problem. Could give that a go. I have both chargers, What do you think would you consider to be a reasonable period?

[@balicrimechannel8143]

@@razenby That'd be great if you could give it a try. I was thinking just let them both go until they auto-terminate. Would that work?

[@razenby]

@@balicrimechannel8143 Should do. The charges I have done with the Genius 5 auto terminated. I could try the JAG battery next. Do some CCA testing too. I am keen to open up this HBC012 Yuasa / Halfords battery and see what state the electrolyte is in.

[@balicrimechannel8143]

@@razenby I'm looking forward to it! Not only is this all very helpful for my charger purchase decision, but also very educational. I'm learning a lot about batteries that I never knew and may have never got around to learning otherwise.

[@richardlouie2922]

@@razenby You could also use the CTEK it has a built-in low current mode (the motorcycle mode) as a way to verify.

[@PadmaDorjee]

This was sooooo technical but I got the gist of it. I have the Ctek and when I use the reconditioning cycle it moves very quickly to the next stage. I think it may have damaged my battery keeping it permanently attached as I thought that was good for it for a car I use every second month for a day. Which would you suggest for maintaining the battery on charge each day for now a motorcycle and car which are show vehicles which are used maybe once a month? Will watch the other videos now for your final word on the comparison.

[@razenby]

Hi Padma it depends on what the battery is connected to. If it is an old style car with true zero battery drain when Locked and parked then only a periodic charge is necessary. A healthy battery only required a full charge cycle every six months to keep tip-top condition. Modern cars run active systems when parked such as Alarms and other monitoring systems (central locking ). This called the Parasitic Power Drain (PPD). Rapid damage is inflicted on a lead acid car starting battery battery when the level of charge sinks too low. Car starting batteries simply aren't designed for deep discharge applications. So which approach is best? If you want to have a maintenance charger connected then there are three things to consider: 1. The charger needs to be well designed to be reliable and damp and mains transient resistant. 2. The charger needs to support temperature compensation. 3. If, during maintenance charging, you leave the battery connected to a vehicle with PPD some chargers will never complete their so called 'smart charging 'cycle and get stuck in the last stage - usually the third. This can keep the battery terminal at a high lever permanently as the parasitic PPD never allows the third stage to fully complete. Charging current during the final stage is low and of the same order of magnitude as the parasitic load. In Conclusion Genius

[@PadmaDorjee]

@@razenby WOW!!! I am blown away at how generous you are with your knowledge, THANK YOU. I sadly bought 3 of the CTEK chargers, one the same as your neighbours which you tested and 2 of the 0.8Amp ones thinking it would be good to keep connected on the bike and the 2005 BMW which has a fairly high Parasitic Drain, not as much as a modern one however. That company advertises it has the automatic 6 step charging so I hope I haven't made a mistake with it. Do you suggest I return them (bought online today so can cancel) and buy the brand you suggested? And THANK YOU again, sincerely.

[@Indivel]

Looking to get the best auto charger for a car. Advise what is better, more reliable for charging a 100 amp battery? NOCO Genius5 CTEK MXS 5.0 Reliability and quality of performance are extremely important.

[@razenby]

I am not sure about the best as I haven't tested them all yet. My views aren't the same as some here claiming to be much more experienced than me. From what I have seen so far there is little difference in quality between the Aldi and LIDL offerings and the CTEK. If CTEK were a doctor he would be prescribing medicines with bad side effects to otherwise perfectly healthy patients. i.e Reconditioning a mostly healthy battery makes things worse. In general, I believe the reconditioning and repair claims are bogus. All you need to do is periodically charge your battery (~monthly) with a charger that does a correct profile charge that is within the manufacturer's specification. For my money the NOCO is a much better design, the current transitions are precise, well regulated and accurate and the charge cut off voltage is accurate too. The CTEK has been tweaked to increase the power output when it should have been redesigned so it is weak and gets too hot,

[@dacomaniac]

It was great...good to know.on battery university site, they say 15.5 v under 2 amp is very good for desulphate,but no longer than 2 days.i bay 2 power support supplays and i try.after 2 days battery was dead.shortcir uit.

[@razenby]

Good info. I will try that and see what happens...

[@richardlouie2922]

That sounds like the standard equalization charge that is recommended by many battery OEMs. Of course, none of the OEM documentation I have seen seems to agree on the exact numbers - ie voltage, current, how long to run it for, and how often to run it. On a related note, the CTEK may be attempting to run a standard equalization charge to 15.8V but time limited out to 4 hours (as per their manual). I would be interesting to see a comparison between running a standard charge and CTEK's Recon mode ran multiple times (ie multiple Recon cycles in a row to simulate a standard equalization charge) until the charger stops time limiting out at 4 hours. I've found that on my CTEK, the charger will stop the Recon mode once the terminal voltage hits 15.8V rather than waiting the 4 hours.

[@ongster55]

What a comprehensive review! I am in the market for a trickle charger to put on my 2022 Land Rover Defender as it is about to be stored for 6 months - 1 year. I want to make sure the battery doesn't die and mess up all the electronics. It seems like the Noco Genius 5 will fit the bill nicely. My question is, will it be ok to use a cigarette lighter plug to connect the charger to the battery or should I use a more direct connection to the battery itself (under the front seat) or the jump starting poles (in the engine compartment). Either Hard wired or alligator clips? I want to be able to close the hood. The car will be left mostly unattended and I want to make sure the battery is safe and doesn't overheat, etc. What in your opinion, is the safest and most efficient way to connect? Thanks!

[@razenby]

Thanks. The cigarette charger plugs are a bit iffy especially if it is damp. In terms of reliability, the NOCO is a better bet. Even a Genius 2 will support the battery well. I have had one one my Jaguar for over two years 24/7.

[@ongster55]

@@razenby thanks for the feedback. My NOCO Genius 5 just arrived. Will connect the alligator clips to the jump starting poles in the engine bay since my battery is under the passenger seat inside the car.

[@Mr35000000]

Hi Thank you for the video, I am trying to decide between these two chargers. A lot of the information you provided went over my head. Do you recommend the Noco or CTEK?

[@paulanderson7796]

Both work well for charging flat batteries. A dead battery is a different thing entirely. The reconditioning mode(s) might buy you a week or two to have a new battery fitted but you cannot bring a dead [battery] back to life.

[@razenby]

NOCO has better build quality and better reliability.

[@paulanderson7796]

@@razenby I do possess a NOCO Boost Plus. It does feel well assembled. I've used it just once. I deliberately ran the battery flat to test it. Mazda 6 2.2d Sport. Worked perfectly.

[@junibordeos3157]

thanks for the videos! Quite comprehensive. I own x2 Cteks and use it mainly for my motorbikes. Should I get the NOCO genius 2x2 instead? Also I live in warm climate - will the NOCO perform better? Am I better buying NOCO instead? thanks mate

[@razenby]

In the regard to the design for reliability, the NOCOs are much better made and designed than the CTEK and electrically much more robust. Personally I would go for the NOCO unless you have the old traditional wet cell battery with top up vents in which case the CTEK might be more effective at recovering some of the lost capacity.

[@junibordeos3157]

@@razenby thank you!

[@guilhermeg345]

Hey I just used my genius 5 for the first time and I had great doubts if I should have charged the battery still connected to the car or take it out. In the end I charged with it still in the car because many people do it and have no problems. I connected the charger first to the battery as per the manual and then to the outlet and as I plugged, it made a spark in the outlet which made immediately regret not taking the battery off. Hopefully it didn't damage the car or anything. The other thing is that the manual doesn't really tell how to disconnect it. I was thinking of just unplugging from the wall but since it was still giving current I cycled through the modes until it selected standby mode then I unplugged. But now I see your graph, the charger starts supplying current as soon as you select the mode. Do you think it could damage anything when going through AGM and Lithium modes to reach Standby mode ? The battery being a normal 12v. Thank you.

[@razenby]

Connect the battery clips before you plug in the mains and disconnect the mains before you remove the clips. The latter is not so important these days as most car starter batteries are sealed VRLA. No, going through modes wont harm it. Disconnect the battery clamps if you you battery repair mode on a modern car.

[@guilhermeg345]

@@razenby Thanks for answering. Do you have any idea why it sparked on the oulet when I connected the noco ? Is it possible that the surge could damage the eletronics of the car ?

[@10tigre1010]

​@@guilhermeg345 Hello, the same for me with the NOCO Genius 5 and apparently it is normal. I have never any problems in my car (which has a plenty of electronic). You can see that spark behavior in numerous other devices (example: when you plug in power supplies of laptops, even the most modern ones, into the outlet). It seem to be the discharged capacitors are fast charged and this generate the spark.

[@guilhermeg345]

@@10tigre1010 yeah I know that happens sometimes but when it's about the car I get really startled. Because of the electronics and I don't want mess that up at all. Hehe

[@Hank_E]

Maybe somebody commented on this already but anyway. The battery analyzer I have, quicklynks ba101, measure of course the internal resistance and then count with an voltage drop of about 2,7 V, guess it's from the full 12,7V down to 10V limit, and from that get the CCA (EN). I tested a couple of different normal flooded batteries at different SoC and the result can be calculated with the 2,7V drop and the mohm the meter show.

[@razenby]

Interesting. The stated capacity of the battery differs between the standards ISO and EN etc.. It easy to predict the behavior of a good battery, but for weak or failing Lead Acid batteries there is no data. If you discharge a lead acid down to 10V it will permanently damage it.

[@Hank_E]

@@razenby Yes the 10 V is just during cranking. The recond mode can lower the internal resistance making it capable of more cranking amps before the voltage drops too low. I tested a Victron 15A charger in recond mode on an old bad battery. Initial test measured 7,45 mohm and after recond between 7,1 to 7,15 mohm so not a big difference, just under 5%, and CCA went from 370A to 385A. I checked the manual of a similar analyzer and it says "replace" if voltage drops under 9,6V during crank test.

[@nfill4131]

Interesting video, Thanks !!! Wondering, have you ever compared either of these two against a "BatteryTender" brand ?

[@razenby]

Not yet! Send me one to test and I will.

[@dereklongley7322]

Hi Magic Smoke, you clearly know battery chargers and wonder if you could recommend one for the way I plan to use it. I have recently acquired a 3.0 litre Z4 (74 Ah battery) which will be used perhaps every few weeks. The battery is new. From your videos it appears NOCO are more prefereable/more reliable than CTEK. Vehicle is parked on the drive. I need a trickle charger which will sit in the boot (where battery located) with mains plugged into weatherproof socket. I intend to leave battery connected to vehicle whilst on charge (an autoelectrician advised against constantly disconnecting the battery, also I need the alarm to be active) and leave the charger to trickle charge over long periods. I was considering either the NOCO Genius 2 (3.8 amp) or the NOCO's Genius 5 (5 amp). Which would suit my needs better. Thanks.

[@razenby]

Hello, I have used a Noco Genius 2 (2 amp) on my V8 Jag XKR for about 2 years. I drive it every 3 weeks or so. I would not use a CTEK because of susceptibility to mains transient and condensation when the weather changes. It has temperature compensation.

[@dereklongley7322]

@@razenby Many thanks for your quick response. In view of the low charger ampage do you leave the charger connected to your battery all the time (except of course when driving), also do you leave the battery connected to the vehicle? Assume you find the 2 amp charger is more than sufficient to (easily) start your XKR even with minimal drain from the alarm when vehicle locked.

[@TheCybercrash]

These are so interesting tests you've done here. I would like to ask for your opinion. I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee with one 70ah arm battery an a second one with 13ah..I guess just for the start-stop-system. They are charged together but the little one only supplies power wire the engine is cut off .. they say on forums. I wird like to get the Noco 10 to charge them fast. My girlfriend drives a fiat500 with 60ah agm. Is the Noco too "big" to charge all the batteries in an healthy way?

[@razenby]

It is a tricky one. I have had the same issue with a Range Rover Sport. The second battery is tucked away somewhere and it doesn't even mention it in the owners manual. These cars have a battery health monitoring module that checks and tries to work out the state of decay of the main battery. When it decides that the battery is low or defective the module prevents stop-start so the stop-start stops stopping . (?? i think that makes sense), The stop start process places a lot more strain on a battery than just driving. Slow current drain and discharge is a problem on modern cars as they are never really truly off. This drain is not good for the battery. To remain in peak condition the battery needs to be maintained at or very near fully charged. My guess is that the second battery is of a much more tolerant type to deep discharge and support the electronics of the vehicle when parked. In addition it is is a source of stable power for critical electronic systems of the vehicle. They all have to remain running and ready and cannot be affected by the transients from the starter when it kicks in. I have main battery taken from a Range Rover Sport that was too low for stop start and it is now on my Range Rover that doesn't have stop start and 2 years later it is working just fine. So there are probably a lot of otherwise serviceable batteries being condemned by the batter condition monitor. The clue is that the Battery condition monitor has to be reset when a new battery is fitted. That should tell you something about the process of monitoring. Why can't it tell if a battery is good just by monitoring the battery performance. ? Why does it have to know that a new one is fitted?? It seems very fishy to me. I would follow the instructions in your vehicle handbook otherwise if you upset the BCM (batter condition monitor) it might throw a hissy fit and stop the stop-start and say' Hey there is something that my software programmer didn't know, expect or account for so in the interest of commerce I am going to condemn this battery so the owner can go in and buy a new overpriced one and have me reset by the dealer. It is my way of saying I haven't got a clue about your question see what the owner manual says about a flat battery. Most manufactures state that the recommended charge current for a ~70aH battery is 3 to 3.5 amps. High current charge is not good. It may get you back on the road but your battery wont thank you for it. If you aren't in a hurry then a 5A charger is fine fr all but the most massive batteries..

[@TheCybercrash]

@@razenby Just to let you know. I've bought the Noco Genius 10. It charged my two Jeep batteries (in parallel: 70ah + 13ah) full in one night. Seemed to work really well. So thanks for your tests on the noco.

[@rrider993]

Without having to watch every video, can you do future tests to include RFI / EMI ( Radio Frequency Interference) caused by Ctek chargers? We have had very bad digital hash spewed from older US3300 units. They seem to both radiate and conduct their wide band RFI from the AC line and the 12VDC line. The RFI is from LF up to Low VHF. Note sure of the FCC rating (the printing has rubbed off), but regardless, these units SPEW RFI onto the AC line, the DC side and into the air from the unshielded case. Any advice on filtering? Can you do some tests on toroids and “Brute force” filtering? CTeK has nothing and did not help with tech advice when asked some time ago.

[@razenby]

Apart from a chamber, I have all the kit here to measure for FCC and CE, CCC etc. The final test is a calibrated antenna in a field. I haven't checked the CTEK for EMI. I have blown one up with the Schaffner transient burst generator., If you look at the other 8A charger video you can see the radiated and conducted EMI issues with Chinese products. In fact not many of these products comply with CE. I have had Chinese LED bulbs that blank out DAB radio in my house. That takes some doing to design a 3W light bulb that radiates well into the VHF !! Some the CTEKs I have seen do have instability in the SMPS switching FET. It seems to me that a batch were made with the wrong snubber diode. (normal silicon instead of fast recovery). The problem is that only samples at the outset of production are tested and for CE there is no surveillance. Some foreign standards require surveillance in production even to the extent of inspectors cold calling to inspect the approved products on the line. They even cut up the inductors and transformers to check the power rating is as specified. I was on the receiving end of these for years. Glad I don't have to do that anymore.

[@rondhole]

@@razenby Do you think NOCO controller is better with how it regulates the current? Also it is cooler than CTEK5 temperature? Both really shut off when the battery is fully charged? Both turn On once the voltage down at certain V on the battery.

[@razenby]

@@rondhole The CTEK is a string of lights connected to poor design. It is a very expensive piece of cheap electronics. Reliability is a major issue. The NOCO is of a much better build quality. Neither meet their marketing claims. For wet cell traditional non-VRLA (not sealed) battery with DI top up openings then a treatment with the CTEK repair mode might be more effective than with a NOCO . However the majority of automotive staring batteries are now VRLA. The NOCO is much a more reliable and much better made product. It is protected from water ingress and from dew point condensation. These are major problems when support charging is damp out buildings or whilst subject to temperature and humidity swings when maintaining a vehicle battery outside. Cross the dew point with CTEK and it goes bang.

[@jamesmullen262]

Interesting videos, question for you I have the noco genuine 5 and I have a VRLA battery when charging this should I leave it on the regular 12v setting or should I have it on the AGM setting?

[@razenby]

Good question. AGM is a different battery chemistry and structure to standard to VRLA batterries. I am not sure. The charging parameters between the two types differ. I am about to to do the parametric testing on the NOCO Genius 5. I will find out and discuss in the next video.

[@zdenekzalis5916]

@@razenby The AGM battery is also a VRLA battery. AGM means that the liquid electrolyte is impregnated into the glass mat. These accumulators are hermetically sealed and are protected against rupture by the VRLA pressure relief valve. This type of battery is charged with a maximum voltage of 14.9 V. Translated by Google Translate

[@razenby]

@@zdenekzalis5916 Thanks for the info.

[@johnr5545]

Thanks god bless

[@razenby]

Always welcome

[@10tigre1010]

Hello, thank you for your video. Today, acording to your experience, which charger would you select among these six: Noco Genius 5 - Ctek MXS 5.0 - Optimate 6 Ampmatic - Victron IP65s 12V/5A - GYSFLASH 4.12. (Or in which order would you consider them, from the best to the worst?) Thanks!

[@razenby]

I have an Optimate 6 here awaiting test but I haven't seen the Victron. The CTEK is a blunt instrument and if it were a doctor get it struck off if it prescribed such treatment to an otherwise healthy patient. The CTEK is probably good for eking out a few months from a battery that is already showing serious symptoms of end of life. What I would say is that the CTEK hardware design and manufacture standards leave a lot to be desired. I am inundated with requests tor repair CTEK and so far have no received any for NOCO. The NOCO build quality of the electronics is much better and they seem more reliable. From all the chargers tested on this Channel to maintain a healthy battery and for general charging I would choose the NOCO. When deciding a good plan is to ignore all marketing claims with regard to the miracle recovery of failed batteries. The best way to prevent buying a new battery is to look after a good one.

[@10tigre1010]

​@@razenby Thank you for your comments. It is clear. And we can see the comparison between the 2 graphics (Cteck vs Noco) where Noco shows cleaner, more consistent and noise free curves. I saw some comments in Amazon about the NOCO Genius which killed, burnt or got very hot batteries, what do you think about that? On the other hand, could you tell me how is the NOCO Genius Step 9: Maintenance; is there a constant voltage (ejample: 13.6V) or are there alternated times with that voltage and times without charge? When do you think doing and uploading the test with the Optimate 6? Thanks again

[@razenby]

@@10tigre1010 The NOCO voltage accuracy is the best on the chargers that I have tested because it maintains the terminal voltage within the safe range. This prevents erosion of the plates. The NOCO can do this because it has better terminal voltage measurement (accurate) circuity and keep in mind that you cant keep an unattended battery fully charged without accurate temperature compensation.

[@10tigre1010]

​@@razenby Following your comments, I bought a Noco Genius 5. I was impressed by the whole quality and how the last stage of maintenance works: extremely accurate voltages and micro-variations of them and I guess micro-injections of current. I very like this maintenance method. It doesn´t have the classic floating voltage (chargers that fixes the voltage at 13.6V for example), instead of that this Noco charger continuously monitors the battery to determine when a maintenance charge should be initiated. If the battery voltage falls below 12.8V, the charger will restart the Maintenance cycle until voltage slowly reaches the setting (for normal battery: 14.5V) and then discontinues the charge cycle. Absolutely nothing to do with cheap Chinese chargers. My recommendation is that the user spends a little more money and buys these very high quality chargers because he/she will protect the investment he/she made in his/her car.

[@marcoac123]

Great video. Thanks

[@razenby]

Thanks. Please remember to like and sunbcribe.

[@rusoeb666]

Good afternoon, I'm sorry I use a translator. I am writing to you from Ukraine with such a question, what kind of charger would you recommend to buy Noca Genius 10 or STEK 10? What do you think is the best charger? thanks for the answer,

[@razenby]

If by STEC you mean CTEK then the CTEK is probably the best at reconditioning but very bad at mid to long term battery support because when you return to it will have failed. Very susceptible to main transients and damp and the mode switch is delicate. One bump and the switch fails. The NOC has a far better build quality and is very reliable on long term battery maintenance. I have 2 cars connected to NOCOs in the garage for over 3 years and the NOCOs are still working fine. Before this I got through 3 CTEKs in a year.

[@rusoeb666]

@@razenby Understood thanks. another question, but what can you say about charging Bosch c7? Is it worth paying attention to? Or even better Noca Genius 10?

[@SV-lq6kb]

Hi @magicsmoke, I was wondering what is the time scale for the measurements? For e.g. at 09.43 the units on X-axis go up to 5281, which if I assumed were seconds, then that would mean that this charge cycle was about 1.5 hours. But then if I was to assume it was minutes then 5281 minutes equates to roughly 3.5-4 days! So could you please clarify how the units on X-axis translates to time? Great review. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks : )

[@razenby]

Seven hours 20 minutes,

[@user-of4sd1rm8r]

Great video. You obviously know your stuff but way above my head lol. So in a nutshell which charger is best - the Noco Genius 5 or the CTEK MXS 5.0? I have the NOCO but am tempted to get the CTEK while its on offer but is it worth it in your opinion. Don't worry I won't hold you to it!

[@razenby]

The CTEK will blow up if left plugged in ore in outside air - not in direct rain but subject to humidity and barometric changes. A CTEK may slightly recover a failing battery but not to any useful extent. I would not use a CTEK on a healthy battery that I want to stay healthy. (too much erosion of plates) It would be similar to a doctor prescribing damaging medication to an otherwise healthy patient.

[@user-of4sd1rm8r]

@@razenby Thanks for the advice. I'll stick with my NOCO Genius 5!

[@razenby]

@@user-of4sd1rm8r Good plan.

[@dereklongley7322]

@@razenby Hi Magic Smoke, you clearly know battery chargers and wonder if you could recommend one for the way I plan to use it. I have recently acquired a 3.0 litre Z4 (74 Ah battery) which will be used perhaps every few weeks. The battery is new. From your videos it appears NOCO are more prefereable/more reliable than CTEK. Vehicle is parked on the drive. I need a trickle charger which will sit in the boot (where battery located) with mains plugged into weatherproof socket. I intend to leave battery connected to vehicle whilst on charge (an autoelectrician advised against constantly disconnecting the battery, also I need the alarm to be active) and leave the charger to trickle charge over long periods. I was considering either the NOCO Genius 2 (3.8 amp) or the NOCO's Genius 5 (5 amp). Which would suit my needs better. Thanks.

[@Neph1]

I’ve tried both. Have both. Appreciate all your videos and in depth reviews. I do like ctek one more. Do you keep using recondition or repair mode on same battery? Don’t you think the battery acid/water is already mixed inside? Probably why it seems like ours doing nothing, because it’s already good not wanting to keep gassing it? Am I crazy? I feel like ctek is smarter and adjusts and noco just does what it says no matter what. They’re both solid though. I might be crazy. I dunno but i think once you repaired it once you won’t see much difference after for a while. Also my noco got my agm battery very warm. My ctek didn’t and eventually quit because the battery was bad. Noco kept trying, no quitting. But that battery is horrible and dead but noco have it juice and didn’t give up on it. In the end the battery was dead and ctek didn’t waste time on it. I dunno I’m no electricity expert. Thanks man i appreciate your channel

[@razenby]

Thanks for the comments. CTEK have reliability issues on UK mains power. I might use a CTEK for an occasional boost of a tired battery but don't favour them for a good battery that I want to keep in good condition. Too brutal, It is a case where the powerful medicine has bad side effects when administered to an otherwise healthy patient.

[@OggyGTA]

Interesting, I've bought and sold quite a few of these chargers through my business (Noco and Ctec) and use both a MXS5.0 and a Genius 5 - I too have noticed the Noco can be a bit too 'strong' with old batteries and in my mind (nothing empirical) the Noco will finish off a failing battery while the Ctek will tend not to. Academic anyway, as the battery is on it''s way out, but I've always thought the Ctek does seem to monitor what's happening with the battery a bit more sympathetically. Both work well in my experience and have only seen 2 failures (both Ctek!)

[@auto2474]

@@razenby use in bike mode or low amp imput mode, like what a trickle charger does???????? thats what ya want!

[@大乐在行动]

question plz - my 12V charges fine and is able to hold the voltage at 13.5V for at least couple of days. However, once connected back to the car, the voltage drops to 6V. Is this a faulty battery? What happened within the battery that gives such problem? Can this be even possibly fixed by re-charging using Noco chargers? Cheers, Alan

[@razenby]

If the charger holds the voltage at 13.5 and dos net get to 14 then the charge cycles is not completing. Get your battery tested.

[@大乐在行动]

@@razenby Thanks for your reply

[@IcarusTECH]

You showed the CTEK Recond mode chart @1:18, then the NOCO Charge cycle @9:42? Did you mean the NOCO repair mode for the second one? It seems like you compared different cycles from the voltages (recond vs. charge, instead of recond vs. repair?) Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[@razenby]

Correct. It was intentional. The purpose was to see if the battery capacity had changed after the CTEK recond mode. The NOCO Genius Repair mode is covered in the videos in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaC7hJWVa72or80

[@iMakos101]

Do you have any videos on proper maintenance for a battery? Do you recommend a battery tender? Or will one of these do the same thing?

[@razenby]

If you are you talking lead acid VRLA car starting battery, AMG or vented lead acid, then the proper maintenance of a battery is to keep it charged. Don't overcharge don't overdischarge it and batteries used in leisure activities should be charged ASAP after discharge. Every charge/ discharge cycle ages the battery. Sulfate build up can be mitigated but only a the cost of plate erosion. If you wait until you need to try Desulfation then it is already too late. At the 'I think my battery is failing' stage desulfation It s not that effective on VRLA starting batteries. Don't use your sidelights when parked and only jump start a car if you cant avoid it - the charge inrush from the alternator hitting a flat battery will erode the plates. . Otherwise always charge a flat battery with a 3 stage charger . If the starter sounds less perky than usual then charge the battery to full float / absorption voltage. It is likely that the battery would benefit form a full absorption charge which is something it doesn't get on short journeys. Cars with alarms or other small current drain whilst parked should not be parked for more than a week without battery support. My Jaguar XK will completely flatten the battery in a month and without support will ruin a new battery in about year as I only drive it every 2 to 3 weeks. If your battery terminal voltage has lingered at less that 11.5 volts for even a short period then it is already permanently damaged. A full charge every six months (more frequently in cold conditions) will prolong the life of your starting battery. Always use a temperature compensated charger for battery support applications. Batteries in good condition that are in storage should be charged every 6 months.

[@iMakos101]

@@razenby thank you so much for the long answer! That helps a lot.

[@_tomasz_]

The A*h calculation on Ctek draw is IMHO wrong. Time scale is in minutes? If so - after 60 minutes you should have c.a. 4Ah.

[@razenby]

true..i wondered who would notice that..

[@AJB1]

Also, why does the gradient of the Ah curve suddenly get way steeper without the current going up at all? Surely at constant current the Ah should be a straight line, and as the current starts to reduce, the gradient of the Ah curve should start to reduce? What am I missing?

[@Joao.bbatista]

Hi @Magic Smoke. IS IT SAFE to leave the NOCO Genius on at all times in the car to maintain the battery? My car runs little and I need a charger with the battery maintainer function. Which charger do you recommend for this battery maintainer function? thanks

[@razenby]

I cant say it is the best because I haven't tested them all but it is the kindest one I have tested. The others seem to be akin to giving an otherwise healthy patient a powerful drug with bad side effects just in case they get sick....

[@btbd2785]

So which chsrge did a better job?

[@razenby]

Any battery is really easy to charge. They aren't that fussy.. maybe better questions to ask are: 1. Which one did the least damage? 2. Which one will still work when I need to use it? 3, Which one has the most BS in it's claims... Thanks for watching

[@vo2098]

@@razenby So which one?

[@lucians1255]

Hi ... I need your advice please. I need a charger for AGM batteries only. I have a Ring Automotive RSC508 SmartCharger +8 and i do not trust it with AGM. I can not decide between CTEK MXS 10 or NOCO GENIUS 10, which would you recommend? Thank You

[@razenby]

Is this AGM battery used for leisure, standby or starting? For longevity the requirements are quite different in terms of support and recharge. Let me know what you use it for and I'll see which one is kindest.

[@lucians1255]

It is to charge my family cars batteries (3 of them). We are doing short drives all the time and the batteries do not have thime to recharge themselves. Thank you

[@lucians1255]

??? :(

[@titoulamaison7755]

Good comparaison, but no method. 3 cycles of each function would have been good for more accuracy. Brand new noco genius 5 with a worm defective ctek with some dim led. IMO not very fair. No battery simulation with one or two dead cells ? However interesting video.

[@razenby]

That is the trouble with anecdotal experience or warm feelings towards a brand. They don't hold up to scrutiny when you subjected to accurate test and measurement equipment. . By the way the CTEK isn't old or defective it is just about a year old and has only done a dozen or so charges. In fact it has only done these charges. The results are pretty consistent - Maybe you could explain what you would expect to see in the data. From run to run we didn't see any aberrations or big differences in data. In summary, performance wise, there isn't much to choose between any of the smart chargers. Getting near max charge into a battery is simple. The facts remain the facts regardless of extravagant marketing claims. Then it comes down to electronic design, build quality, reliability and value for money.

[@titoulamaison7755]

@Magic Smoke Thanks for your answer. I also have a ctek but the old version (silver mxs5 with black button). Dim LEDs are abnormal. The LEDs should light up from left to right. Since yours comment, I replayed the video, I misread the charge curve on the ctek because you have your shunt in serie, I had completely forgotten, my mistake. (in step 4 you should have constant voltage). The ctek desulfation ( step 1 ) is an "extravagant marketing claim". The impultions are not strong enough and the working time is so short. After a repair mode, you should restart a charge cycle, because the energy of the pulses comes from the battery, it is not without loss. this noco genius 5 is very interesting ... what is the temperature of this noco when the battery is flat ? ( mine ctek is hot on a flat battey, but it's very rare I have a flat battery ) can noco detect batteries with dead cells ? No analyse step on the noco. I wonder how and when it detects a bad battery. I subscribed, looking forward to seeing your next videos. 👍 ( sorry for my english, i'm french )

[@James28R]

poor guy must have bought a ctek. lol

[@gidderman]

Try AGM mode on either or both chargers with the same batteries, same tests. You May find some hidden Ah in there :)

[@razenby]

Thanks for the food for thought. My understanding is that the termination voltage is higher and the charge current is slightly higher later in the cycle. The only way it can make the battery hold extra charge is to change the nature of the plates or electrolyte in a positive way. The trouble is that there are too many variables. Many hold dear the idea that what they do to recover a bad battery works for them, but very few, if any, have done any measurement. It just seems much better after the battery is charged. Well yes it does but that is the effect of the recent charge not the reconditioning. It is similar to how a clean car seems to go faster and excellent expensive clubs will improve a crap golfer's play.

[@gidderman]

@@razenby Yes, the only reason I mention it is because I have noted better results charging flat batteries under the agm mode. If I am trying to remove stratification or sulfation from a battery I will drain it with a heavy load to get it warmed up and then hit it with either agm mode on my prologix pl2320 or use the big manual battery charger and throw 60 amps at it until it reaches around 15.1-15.5 volts, then I let it soak at 10 amps again until it reaches 15 volts, then put it on trickle charge about 4 amps for a few more hours. I repeat this process 4 or 5 times until I see diminishing returns. This has been the only way I have seen notable recovery of any batteries. Most batteries once damaged are a total loss however, never coming back to thier original capacity. I always check the battery when I am done this process both with a capacitance meter and a carbon pile to gauge the performance of said battery.

[@cesarlegaspi1701]

So which one is the better charger?

[@razenby]

I can't say which is the best one out there as I haven't tested them. Between these two, for a good battery and to keep you battery good (prevention is much better than cure) the the NOCO is far better. It is much kinder to the battery. If you have faith is desuplhation then for a hopeless or failing battery the CTEK might be able to give it a stiff talking to but I wouldn't charge a healthy battery with a CTEK.

[@dewidaniels]

@@razenby I’m interested to know in what way the NOCO is much kinder to the battery than the CTEK. Would you not charge a healthy battery at all with a CTEK or do you mean that you would not use the CTEK’s recond mode on a healthy battery?

[@Mangold108]

what you think is better between NOCO and CTEK? thanks

[@razenby]

I prefer the NOCO for build quality and design. The NOCO is a better charger to keep batteries in good condition. I would use a CTEK on a failing battery but not for a good battery as the medicine it administers makes a health battery ill. People state that the battery manufacturers endorse CTEK -- well wouldn't you if you could sell more batteries?. Though I have no idea of the proportion of CTEK to NOCO out there, however, I am inundated with requests to repair CTEks but not NOCOs.

[@Mangold108]

​@@razenby I see... have u ever tested any OPTIMATE? it seems the most "intelligent" one about the endorsement the car/motor company do not sell batteries... so I dont think it is related. but I am not sure. thanks for asking.

[@razenby]

@@Mangold108 I have one in the pack on the branch here Optimax 6 Ampmatic. Intelligent is putting it a bit strong. I get round to it.

[@pawek9528]

14.5V that finished way to low

[@razenby]

I am interested in that view but cant find a source for it beyond the old flooded lead acid cells that you can top up. . However every battery manufacturer of VRLA starter batteries state 14.4V +- Temp compensation for the float charge stage before the charge terminates. In a healthy battery 20% additional charge is stored during this stage. Going above this voltage is not good for a healthy battery.

[@pawek9528]

@@razenby On the other video I saw on your bench Halfords battery. 99% sure made by YUASA. Now copy from manufacturer: Grids are still made of Lead. Typically less than 0.1% of calcium is needed to give strength (note calcium is added to the grid alloy in both calcium and hybrid batteries). Some customers think that calcium batteries are completely different to lead acid batteries, but they just represent another generation of the lead acid battery. Charge Voltage tolerance increased from 14.4V to 14.8V ........ repair mode lead acid batteries need short period charge low current over 15Volts (not AGM batteries)

[@razenby]

@@pawek9528 Yuasa claim to make Halfords batteries. The calcium also helps recombination of H and O at the anode. There is barium in there too and who knows what other impurities as the lead has been recycled many times.

[@jackdominiak445]

What a load of confusing crap 😏

[@razenby]

Sorry it went above your head.... If you want simple then look to another channel

[@pagepro211]

try a Schumacher bettery maintainer sc1355 avainst those two

[@razenby]

I would love to but they aren't available in the UK. If someone sends me one to try then I will take a look.

[@DanielParker96]

Good day. I was impressed with your skills and knowledge and would like to ask you for a piece of advice. I'm struggling to find a decent car charger. There are so many options, can you help me out, please? I've got 95A AGM battery in my car. I want a charger I don't have to keep an eye on with maintenance functions to keep my battery in a good condition. I may also need to charge another 90A AGM battery and 120A acid battery. I heard about noco and ctek and they both have cons as far as i got. Ctek build is not that good and noco may heat up a battery. I would like my battery to be safe with a charger so I can leave it for a night unattended. It's for a range rover with a bunch of electronics, the battery is in the trunk and I dont want to take it out every time, but there are connectors under the hood,that's where I want to connect a charger and to be sure all the electronics are safe. Budget is under 150$. Thank you beforehand

[@DanielParker96]

I've just found out that noco repair mode does not support agm batteries, only lead-acid

[@razenby]

Hmm, tricky. The first thing I would check is that if any repair mode works on AGM baptisteries. Is your range Rover a stop start type that turns the engine off when stopped and auto-restarts? On this model there is a battery monitor controller that monitors the battery condition as it ages and I heard tell that charging the battery can confuse it and stop the stop start from working. Let me know exactly what vehicle you own and I will look into it. As it happens I have a pile of Land Rover and Ranger Rover batteries that aged beyond the point where stop start ceased to operate and battery warning came up on the dash. In fact I have one in my P38 for the last two years and it works just fine. I have been meaning to investigate this as it irks me. Is the car used regularly?

[@rudyb.1243]

What result does this video give me? nabijacka.yes or not. the recovery mode works on the charger ctek. I bought it and I still have no problems. thank you for the answer?

[@razenby]

Yo see the evidence - you decide.

[@rudyb.1243]

@@razenby Can you explain that to me? I don't understand and I'd like to buy a charger

[@razenby]

@@rudyb.1243 If you want to regenerate anything more than a slightly tired VRLA (Valve regulates sealed lead acid) car starter batteries then it is already too late for that battery. The old wet cell vented batteries were redeemable because they were much beefier in construction and the plates could take overcharge during so called 'repair'. Much better to periodically float charge your good battery and keep it good. If you buy a CTEK then don't leave it connected to the mains for long periods and don't let is cross the dew point else it will be dead when you go back to it.

[@rudyb.1243]

@@razenby Who will be dead, battery or charger?

[@rudyb.1243]

@@razenby in the manual it is written that the best battery is charged after step 8