Does Your Anvil Edge Need Repairing? Think Twice, Work First, Worry Later

[@broadusthompson1666]

A couple corrections, notes, and theories! Vulcans are cast iron with a steel face, pretty low grade, but still half decent. In my experience they’re pretty soft from the get go, your welder friend may not be completely to blame. It may have been a good thing it got hot, if he was working like a good welder he may have gotten it even hotter on purpose to stop from getting stress fractures as it cools. I have a theory about why almost every Vulcan you’ll find is chipped to hell, the few I’ve seen that are untouched have crazy sharp edges, most makers ground a chamfer at least at the portion of the face near to the horn. So I think because Vulcans were cheap, and made of low grade metal, and unground, those sharp edges were never dressed by the people using them and just like you said sharp edges are weak. As for Peter Wright’s they’re almost all wrought iron with a steel face forge welded on top, some late model ones may have a solid steel tops, but Peter Wright’s smiths did such a good job blending in the welds it’s hard to tell. You’re absolutely right about rounding the edge with a gradient in sizes from one side to the other, that’s exactly how every great smith I know dresses their anvil. It gives you the more options in ways to use your anvil and is best to forge on. Just the way sharp corners make the edge on your anvil weak sharp transition in forging make your work weak. This was even more important in the era that book was written as they were working with wrought iron which has a grain like wood and in many ways must be treated like wood when considering how to forge it so the grain is strongest a sharp edge would cut through the grain instead of allowing it to flow through a bend/transition. An alternative I always give to repairing the edges on an anvil is making a hardy block, just a big ol chunk of steel with a shank to go in the hardy, and the sharper edges you desire. I recently did a forging demo at an art school, they had a fairly new anvil which had never been properly dressed, the first thing I did when I saw it was ask for a grinder since I knew there was no way I was going to be able to forge on it with sharp edges. Thanks for making this video! I think it was something that needed to be said, too many folks are trying to fix their anvils before they know how to use an anvil.

[@SkillCult]

Awesome thoughts. The Vulcan is now deforming instead of chipping, so I know it's changed. I can see that the plate is very thin and in general, it doesn't seem like a high grade anvil, more like good enough. The anvil was clearly used hard before I got it somehow, with broken horn and pretty rounded edges, but there wasn't a lot of damage to the face until recently. Granted, it may have been more abused when I lent it out though. But the mushrooming gives it away. I think it would be fun to try to re-temper it, so I might do that sometime. I did look it up after shooting this and saw that some people said vulcans tend to be soft. I had the same thought a lot of new smiths have, that the edges are damaged and could be fixed if possible. I think my advice is sound. Use it and if it gets in your way, then think hard about welding on it.

[@reconciliation8491]

If it is chipping it may have a trace of another metal in it. Try boiling it with powdered quicklime.

[@leeknivek]

SkillCult hardening an anvil is not worth the effort, and really not possible in most cases for the home gamer. you have to apply so much heat energy and then remove so much of it so fast.... i mean, like, you need to remove 1,000,000 btus in less than a minute. people get too caught up in anvil hardness. cast iron, mild steel, tool steel - they're all plenty hard, plenty durable. i use a mild steel anvil myself, which is a step above cast iron, but i don't really have an issue with denting or deforming. and i've welded somewhere around 20lbs of weld rod into it. ps - i am of the opinion that vulcans and the harbor freight anvil of yesteryear, for what that's worth....... :)

[@broadusthompson1666]

Kevin Keel you are correct it’s not at all necessary, doesn’t mean it’s not worth it, it makes an an old tool last even longer for future generations. Heating it up isn’t all that hard, though cooling it is hard, it’s not impossible. You don’t have to remove the entirety of the heat in the anvil all at once, you only need to remove it from the top half inch all at once and keep it cool until the rest eventually cools off. That isn’t a miracle to pull off.

[@leeknivek]

i mean "it isn't worth it" as far as those who go on to weld tool steel plates to old anvils in hopes of hardening them, or the stoody rod, etc. the theme of this video is "don't worry about it, get working", and i agree with that to the fullest extent. any anvil made of iron or steel is going to get you by, especially so the hobbyists now, and all that extra money and work isn't going to pay for itself in mosts cases. so, amateur blacksmiths can do whatever they want, i am no dictator, but i highly recommend not following the notion of "hardened faceplate or nothing", i don't think it's useful to follow that.

[@OutOfNamesToChoose]

Rounding off the edges reminds me of how woodworkers chamfer legs on furniture to prevent the wood from chipping or being damaged as it gets dragged around. I suppose the same can apply here as the edge of the anvil might be less susceptible to chipping in the future now.

[@OutOfNamesToChoose]

Oops, I spoke (or typed) too soon, you've mentioned damage prevention in the video.

[@SkillCult]

Exactly. It's a geometry thing. In flintknapping you have to really learn all about that, but it applies broadly to brittle materials in general. Imagine how damaged furniture would get if all the edges were 100% sharp. Both the likelihood and the extent of damage are reduced. I wish I had elaborated more, but it's not just the sharp edge that will crumble, a sharp edge can also lead to the removal of larger chips more easily than a rounded edge will.

[@9jakepeterson16]

Not a blacksmith, never wanted to be, but your videos informative, entertaining, and they plant a seed of curiosity. Thanks for your content. I've learned a ton, but it's caused me to educate myself too through the sources you offer and others i find. The seed keeps growing. Keep planting

[@mvblitzyo]

Really enjoyed the history on the Annville thank you. And a big thanks to the link about the book written back in 1889

[@SkillCult]

That's a cool book. There are so many out of copyright books available now for free.

[@zeros_knives_and_bushcraft.]

I have always forged on what pro blacksmiths would call junk. But it allows me freedom to use,modify,or brake tools on a whim. My favorite "utility" anvil is a 12lb. Sledge head inlet into a big stump. I'll grant that it won't stand up to forging projects like a harty took but for pecking out a knife blade, or making arrow heads it works just fine. If you can make your tools then you can remake your tools.

[@mikepettengill2706]

Great video, I have been looking for an anvil and this is timely, truly useful info.

[@gonecoastal4]

Wow! Great link, years of reading on one page! Thanks for the info. "Get it hot and beat on it!"

[@broadusthompson1666]

That book is my all time favorite blacksmithing book! I love how you get different points of view, it also doesn’t have a particularly booky feel since the writers weren’t attempting to write a book, they were just sharing information with each other (not that booky books are a bad thing)

[@SkillCult]

I read a lot of that kind of stuff on apples and other subjects too. It was a slow way to communciate, but a lot of those guys were very smart and articulate.

[@mercon1337]

Hard to find anvils

[@user-yd6qq5pr7c]

Get an aso.

[@SkillCult]

It is. It used to be easier. Keep telling everyone you know that you are looking. That's how I found mine.

[@zeros_knives_and_bushcraft.]

Scrap drives of WWII ate up a lot of them. Before that almost every farm would have had some form of anvil.

[@stantheman5163]

Very cool video. Love the ideas on making your own anvil helper tools although I am just a railroad tie metal basher at this point. We just got back from a visit to China where jewelry stores would have people in front of the store working away on tiny specialized anvils making jewelry. You'd hear the tink, tink, tink of them working and it attracts attention to the store.

[@SkillCult]

I always thought it would be cool to do tinkering and jewelry making like that they way that people busque playing music. Just have a little set of tools and work up copper brass and silver, so people could see you working. I'm all about the process and I think people like to see craftsmen at work.

[@stronglikemonkey]

I don't know if you know of Brian Brazeal or not. He is a master Smith and always recommends using rounded edges that he refers to as dies. He is the major proponent of using the rounding hammer for blacksmithing that has gained favor as of late. Strangely enough he has designed a mild steel (yes, you read that right) die anvil that has a progressive radius all the way down the sides of the anvil along with various steps. Its awesome to watch that man move metal. It's like nothing I've ever witnessed. Check him out if you haven't seen him. You won't regret it.

[@SkillCult]

I don't know him. That sounds interesting. it's always good to seek out the people that are thinking outside the box and breaking roles. I don't follow smithing stuff at all now. I don't think the internet existed when I was in my smithing phase lol. I'll check him out.

[@stronglikemonkey]

SkillCult - I think you'd dig him. He turned blacksmithing on its ear in kind of a punk rock way. Hes not a jerk, matter of fact quite the opposite. He started out as a farrier and looked at things from a different perspective to begin with. Most of youngsters that are now popular on KZbin trained with him. His program was called Tools to make tools which taught the student to make their own tools using virtually nothing, then build their own full set. I love that kind of stuff. Last I talked with him he was heading to Africa to bring that approach to smaller, underserved villages that don't have access to store bought goods. That Pigmy anvil of yours really reminded me of him. The stuff of his on KZbin is pretty low production value and you have to search around a bit for it. But it is worth the journey in my opinion. Anyway, starting to sound like a fanboy here. I guess I kind of am. Your approach and his kind of mesh. So I hope you like it if you get to check it out.

[@johnwaw6363]

When we repaired our edges we preheated the body to avoid warping. Built the edges up with a specialty rod that ends up with carbon in the weld. I’m not sure that we quenched the face because sometimes you can delaminates the whole face.

[@SkillCult]

I'd like to see how one of these holds up over time regarding any damage like denting and deformation on the once hard face of the anvil. Or obviously also if the heat messes with the larger face of the anvil. Maybe quenching occasionally with boiling water?

[@daveyjoweaver5183]

Hi Steven, Excellent video! I had an anvil, same size as your middle one. It was my grandfathers. Also had a BBQ forge, what I called it, cast iron, hole in the middle with a hand cranked blower. I lent it to a guy to use for a few months along with some tools including my favorite early hammer. The guy disappeared with all my tools. My mentor had given me the forge. I still have 2 hand cranked blowers though and some tools. Indeed a bummer. I have managed with a 1" thick block of steel. I see anvils at flea markets and the like for huge prices and poor shape. One day I'll find one reasonable,,,, I hope. I am more the farm smithie as yourself. And being a cabinetmaker by trade, I always round edges of feet and slightly round corners of legs and edges. You can get a nasty knuckle skinned on a sharp edge. You make furniture that is comfortable to use. I even slighty round the underside edges of table skirting to eliminate those sharp and splintery corners. My anvil was perfect temper wise with rounded edges, worked great. My mentor worked in the blacksmith section of a carriage shop. He was born in 1889? He made 13 cents an hour, early 1900s. If you'd like one of the blowers I have you welcome to it Steven. Don't think it would be too much to ship UPS. May be you have 4. If not let me know. Thanks Much! DaveyJO

[@SkillCult]

It's generally a bad idea to lend out tools. That's really a bummer. Thanks, but I'm good on blowers. I have a champion 400 I'm going to restore and two or three others knocking around. Only reason I might need more in the future is if I do classes here someday.

[@stevesyncox9893]

If you make an anvil or rail, turn it vertical, keep the mass under the hammer. Three together with some imagineering (clip the bottoms & weld tight) and you’ve got a decent ASO.

[@Trav_Can]

Skills over gear! Hell yes!

[@SkillCult]

Yep, a good orientation to have. Gear is great, but not nearly as important.

[@MichaelQuigley-fy5rc]

I've wanted to get into it for a very long time but I need to do more serious research than I already have. I don't have much room, just a small shed connected to my little miners cabin up here in the North Idaho mountains. I've seen forges that are just fire proof bricks with a torch sticking in the side, probably the most sensible thing to do. That's all I need is a freakin fire.

[@SkillCult]

You need coal or charcoal, any source of forces air, a hammer, tongs and something to smash on. check the set up in this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4ClpZR3h8t_rbc

[@Trav_Can]

Nice San Pedro amigo!

[@SkillCult]

that tall one I got in my friends back yard. It was about 14 inches tall, skinny and totally yellow. It's been in my greenhouse about 4 years I think. I also have two seedlings my friend grew.

[@amoshelp766]

Love to see the straw bale house in the background.

[@SkillCult]

It's a little different, it's usually called slip straw. It's a small amount of clay solution used to coat the straw, and then that is tamped in between vertical framing members and dried. It has a lot lower R value, but it's also a lot narrower than a bale wall. Someday I might plaster that wall. That's the plan anyway.

[@daveyjoweaver5183]

Did you get it? Hi Steven, just checking to see if you received the check. There is a tracking number if you didn't. Let me know if you would please. Thanks Steven. DaveyJO

[@SkillCult]

Yes, got it! Thanks!

[@daveyjoweaver5183]

SkillCult COOL! You can expect another package soon. Thanks Steven! DaveyJO

[@OakKnobFarm]

Cool video, I've been looking for an affordable anvil for a year or so... I've spread word to everyone I know in town to dig around the back of their barns. No luck yet... but always looking Have you gotten a sunburn on your bean yet? Don't forget you have nice tender skin up there that hasn't seen sun in decades ;) Lookin good, I like it

[@SkillCult]

Keep at it and good luck. I'm pretty careful about wearing hats. I used to wear broad brims all the time, so pretty much back to that.

[@OakKnobFarm]

Definitely continue to be careful with your head! My (also very bald) pops had to get tons of skin and even some skull removed to stop skin cancer from a lifetime of exposure. Then he had to use chemotherapy cream on his scalp for a long time... which made his skull bright red and constantly peeling. Needless to say; I have a hat on right now.

[@alexanderhinman4454]

Good video! The anvil I normally work on has corners basically like the article describes, and while there are times when I really do want a radius of 1/8" on a corner to make tenons or when starting really tight scrolls, I have a block of steel with a shank that fits in the hardy hole and has different radii for those purposes. It lays flat on the anvil so it's more stable than a bickern, and having a consistent radius is good for starting flat scrolls. Since you like reading old articles and such, there's some gems in these old editions of the Machinists and Blacksmiths Journal (digitized): library.si.edu/digital-library/book/machinists-and-blacksmiths-journal There's a lot of discussion of union politics, which is interesting in its own right, but there's also descriptions of trade craft e.g. an oil fired forge ("Water as Fuel" v. 10 no. 9 July 1873)

[@SkillCult]

Thanks for weighing in. It's pretty easy to keep the tail section at a small radius too, since is rarely subject to accidents. Thanks for the link. I like reading that old stuff, though I usually do it in spurts as I'm. interested in some subject.

[@parkerbrothers75]

Back in the day of quality anvil makers like Hay Budden would have came from the factory with a rounded working edge to about 3/8” radius in this A to B section.

[@robg836]

Not all Hay Buddens came this way. It was an add-on option

[@SkillCult]

Interesting either way

[@tinnyblacksmith3434]

The Vulcan is also cast. cast anvils can be very good quality Fisher for instance is the anvil I use in my shop and they are cast but have a steel plate that Vulcan is not a very high quality anvil and square edges are usfull if you know what you are doing

[@SkillCult]

I only referred to that cast anvil to indicate that it was without a hardened plate and made of inferior material. I had read before about the Fisher casting process, but have never examined or used a fisher anvil. The vulcan was hard enough to have a decent face in spite of obvious hard use until is was de-tempered, but the chipping at the edge does look pretty excessive. the steel face is not very thick either. Can you elaborate on square edges being useful. Would you make an argument against any rounded edges,? For mostly square edges? or just one square section? Just how square,. and what are they useful for and do you mean dead square and sharp and how would you justify leaving that on the anvil and where?

[@tinnyblacksmith3434]

SkillCult having square edges helps with setting shulders and half on half of hammer work i would recommend having 3 to 4 inches of rounded edges at the front of the face and taper the radius as it moves to the heel of the anvil but make sure you have a clean edg twords the sweet spot of the anvil

[@adampablodayc]

Got my first real anvil a few months ago,it took me three go's at it with file and grinder ,taking off only a little at a time before the edges were acceptable as fullers.

[@daveyjoweaver5183]

PS I think the blower wouldn't be much to ship. DaveyJO

[@LolitasGarden]

Work first, worry later. I showed up at my buddy Kyle's house and he had a hairdryer and gas pipe pushed into wood fire in a hole in the ground with a length of railroad track next to it. I had a forge at the house that I didn't use because of the noise restrictions in the neighborhood during the home hours, so I moved it to his house. Surprisingly, he forges less now that he's got the gear and I forge more because I have the free time to while I'm there. Kyle- FORGE, BITCH!

[@SkillCult]

ha ha.

[@IronB2]

Always wanna radius the main working edges, keep a sharp one on the heel or something for a clean 90degree angle. Chips alone may not bother you, but once a crack starts, it grows, and can eventually lead to catastrophic failures.

[@SkillCult]

Never had that problem. I've seen one anvil where half the steel plate broke across and came off.

[@IronB2]

Looks like you don't actually use any of those anvils?

[@SkillCult]

Sadly not for quite some time. All my smithing stuff is rusting away waiting to be put back into use.

[@downeastprimitiveskills7688]

When I set up my smith shop years ago I picked up an very well used local anvil, it has a dish in it and the edges were very worn just in the middle. Likely from many horse shoes and or oxen. I had it welded in a shop I presume knew what they were doing, to build up the rounded edges. The edge is round still not sure the exact spec, I am now curious and have to inspect it closer. I also am a farmer type of use black smith, the shop can set idle for months then I get some project that really fits. You got three thumbs down on this one, probably the loss of dreds.

[@mikepettengill2706]

I think the thumbs down are from folks who spent a lot when they knew too little.

[@downeastprimitiveskills7688]

I looked at my anvil edges and they are total crap!

[@SkillCult]

Can you elaborate on "crap" :) Only one semi critical comment though. Who knows what peoples problem is. Plenty of people will thumbs down, but few will actually challenge me.

[@downeastprimitiveskills7688]

By "crap" I mean the edge on one side is still just as it was after the weld and the other side I have used some but is still weldy. This was done a number of years ago, and apparently I never refined it. I have only recently picked up a decent grinder, and am really liking those flapper disc type grinding pads, I just picked up a 36 grit for a welding job I working on. I will have to trim up the edges a little. Utube used to have a dislike button, I think it would show who disliked the video? Then they got all PC.

[@craigulatorOne]

anvil envy is real.

[@SkillCult]

TOTALLY. I am decently well endowed anvil wise, but occasionally I see one on that makes me feel inadequate lol.

[@eb282]

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix