Dogfighting Debriefs #6 - P-47 Not Bringing the Thunder

[@CZ350tuner]

Try this classic real life P-47 dirty trick for trapping a pursuing 109 or 190. Dive away, level out, close the throttle an go vertical and immediately start into a barrel roll to initiate a P-47 vertical rolling scissors trap. With the throttle shut a 7.5 tonne P-47 loses airspeed a whole lot quicker than a 2.75 tonne 109 or 3.25 tonne 190!! In any type of scissors manoeuvre whoever loses energy the quickest and makes the kill. As the victim helplessly sails past, crack open the throttle and using the prop wash over the tail, lock the sights on and fire. I've used this dirty trick when flying P-47's in a few simulators and it never fails.

[@neighborhoodturnt]

No trick is dirty if it works while flying😊

[@Creep.-]

another awesome video that masterfully drives home the importance of turn rate v radius, wingman positioning, situational awareness, decision making, and more! thanks so much for making these man!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Thanks Creep, glad to hear what you got out of it! :-)

[@romanbru9504]

Спасибо Вам за интересное и информативное видео, отдельное спасибо за составление схем боя и сопоставление их с типовыми траекториями ведения боя

[@jschmalzel1787]

Great video, that second engagement was fantastic.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Thanks J, occasionally you get lucky and the stars, or in that case airplanes, align to let it happen

[@thrustmaster1234]

Legendary trigger control on that second attack on the two 109's! Superb flying as always o7

[@RequiemsACTL]

Cheers Kristjan, the funny part was I wasn't even using the gyro sight to shoot at them. I usually take the reflector sight, which helpa as I was basically just eyeballing my lead.

[@TheRaptorXX]

Nice stuff Req and... it's TRUE!! Someone once told me that you WERE fallible and lo, it happened!! I'm off down the pub now to sit and brood over a pint and reflect on what I've just seen. Seriously though, it's good stuff and is definitely as important to show what NOT to do as well as what TO do, illustrated here in your inimitable way!! Thanks mate.

[@RequiemsACTL]

LOL Have fun with the beer mate. I make mistakes like anyone else. If anyone can learn from them then that's great! I think the main point to take away from this is to stay high when flying the P-47 when not in a ground attack role. Dogfighting down low with it is pretty difficult. I'd almost prefer the P39 down low.

[@TheRaptorXX]

@@RequiemsACTL Mate, I even had one for you as well! I've got the added problem of going through ALL my planes and not only re-installing my custom skins but also having to go through all my default views on each ONE of 'em!! Re-installed Windows cos it was well, about time!!

[@RequiemsACTL]

@@TheRaptorXX Probably not the best to attempt all that after a few beers! Hope to see you airborne, and not too wobbly, again soon!

[@TheRaptorXX]

@@RequiemsACTL By the way, how long did it take to remove all the virtual twigs from your virtual underwear?!

[@RequiemsACTL]

@@TheRaptorXX Wait, I'm supposed to pick them out!?

[@msprauve82]

Another awesome video! Thank you for taking the time to create these debriefs.

[@Air-Striegler]

Lovely format, gorgeous content- love it!

[@BCSchmerker]

+RequiemBoS *Funny, I don't remember the United States sending the Soviet Union any Republic P-47's* - the Garrett turbo-supercharger assisting the United Technologies Pratt & Whitney GR-2800 was top-secret technology at the time, and the VVS SSSR already had a P-47 equivalent in the Mikojan-Gurevich-3 with its powerful Andrei Mikulin 38, most powerful V-12 engine in the war. With the P-47, of course, speed is life - the heaviest single-radial pursuit plane of 1944 was contender for top roll rate, and the aerodynamic fineness helped gravity in the dive; but the LW/Bayerische Flugzeugwerke Bf 109 and LW/Focke-Wulf Fw 190 were both double-superior in terms of wing and power loading.

[@tsakanikasg]

Awesome debrief. It’s nice seeing your tutorials implemented in a pvp environment... And those pesky 109s... right when you get on their six there’s always another one right behind you.. :). I usually use my canopy jettison for cases like that... ;)

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yeah always assume there's another...sometimes it's hard to find them. I didn't even see the 109 that got me but I knew he was coming after I went downhill again lol I like doing these as I can cover multiple concepts with assumed knowledge from my earlier BFM videos so they flow pretty nnn nicely

[@IS0PR0PAN0L]

You can just climb away in the P-47, use less than 30% fuel, 6 machine guns und keep the speed at around 300 km/h. Even a K-4 has trouble to catch up to that. The climb rate of a lightly loaded P-47 is insane

[@RequiemsACTL]

I'll keep this in mind the next time I fly the Jug, thanks for the tips!

[@DeltaMikeUK]

Thanks Requiem. Great video in so many ways. Impressed by your humility and preparedness to post flights that are less successful (by your high standards) so we can all learn. I'd like to ask about your initial merge turn. Why a flat turn? I've been told by virutal pilots far cleverer than me that flat turns are the least efficient? I've heard that generally a 45 degree climbing turn is the most efficient and fastest turn (although I guess this also depends on both your aircraft's corner speed and your initial airspeed at the merge and so if you're slow initially it might actually be better to make a descending turn to increase to corner speed). Thoughts sir?

[@RequiemsACTL]

With the 109's rate of closure as he went past it wasn't really necessary as we generated plenty of distance between us. I could have turned around faster with a pitchback, but I could have lost sight of him as he turned behind my tail. By making a level turn back towards him I can at least maintain tally and adjust my turn to try and finish before his, slow down to reduce my turn radius, and get inside of his turn. I'm not even looking at my airspeed though...even though I probably should but I'd rather maintain tally on a bandit than try to reaquire it.

[@WilliamBrothers]

P-47 is difficult to master but it's a beast at high altitude and light fuel. I actually have more fun with it creating historical missions instead of online competitive play

[@Apanos9]

I have a dream... that one day servers will be 1 to 1 ratio, right now Germans are always more and I end up to 1v2 situations... great vid thank you for your efforts!

[@RequiemsACTL]

With that dream you'll forever be asleep I think lol...it happens very rarely which is why I essentially never get to fly a 109 or 190. I prefer to fly on the side with less players...gives you more targets!

[@z0ro_62]

Its just the beginning of the battle of Britain not enough American volunteers lol

[@SonoftheBread]

"I'm pretty much stuck, at low altitude, with guys coming in behind me and that's not a good position to be in." -You don't say

[@EinsteinEP]

Love these!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Cheers mate, I haven't forgotten about wanting to try DCS with you! I'm out flying a trip atm and wont be back until Tuesday so I'll hit you up Wed or Thur if you're free :-)

[@JugheadJones03]

That 109 at 9:00 WANTED YOU! lol. Might be the camera angle but it looked like he almost rammed you. : ) Good Flyin in this.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Well seeing a P-47 down low is a nice juicy target for a 109...so he couldn't wait to kill me lol

[@daviddobson1056]

Tiptop! Great video

[@davids.jankelevich2234]

What is the best convergence for a p47?

[@RequiemsACTL]

It's personal preference. Record a track of yourself shooting at airplanes. Look at the track and see how far away you are when you start shooting. I use 500m in planes with the .50 cals in case I want to do ground strafing too

[@spinynorman887]

Who screwed up your horizontal stabilizer?

[@Firespectrum122]

I've heard a lot of complaints about the jug in Il-2. If you still play, how are you finding it?

[@tomservo5347]

Have you ever tried linking the prop RPM and supercharger all together with the throttle? Other videos recommend using a small amount of flaps to help with maneuvering. As a noob, the P-47 feels rather clunky while AI 109's literally do circles around me. That was a spectacular dive with 'The Jug' eating up and spitting out two 109's. The P-47 reminds me very much of an American muscle car-less than stellar cornering but ridiculous amounts of speed and power that overcome it's shortcomings. I'm really wanting to like this aircraft with it's unique engine controls.

[@RequiemsACTL]

I'm not a big fan of linking everything together, but from takeoff to touchdown I will pretty much have the throttle and turbo linked. This airplane is not a great one to fly solo, it can definitely do well as a pair with some altitude below you though.

[@docterdoomsday353]

Can you do a He-111 evasion tutorial please? Also Great job at debrief once again!!!

[@RequiemsACTL]

In what sense? You need to evade a He-111 gunner fire or you want to evade IN a He-111? If I'm in a He-111 I keep my maneuvering relatively gentle to let the AI gunner shoot away, but if there is a human gunner go crazy. The thing is not many people actually climb high enough to make use of any altitude so they end up stuck on the deck being chased by a bunch of fighters.

[@docterdoomsday353]

@@RequiemsACTL i ment evading in a HE-111. Thanks for the tip and good luck with your next video!!!

[@michaelahn4338]

Great video!

[@Blackhawkae69]

So hard to disengage, especially when you have unlimited virtual lifes!! But it looks so easy when you do it. Wish my markmenship was half as good as yours!! 💪💪👍

[@RequiemsACTL]

Being able to disengage is hard to do, especially after flying around for 20 mins seeing nothing. But sometimes you just know that sticking around is no good...that's when it's time to run away and regroup to fight another time

[@ronaldwatson1951]

Great brief but I always thought the P47 had a speed advantage? Looking at this video apparently not.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Up higher it's ok but down low the speed advantage evaporates

[@ronaldwatson1951]

@@RequiemsACTL okay Thanks, in your opinion would the P38 be a better platform to be proficient in?

[@Cherokie89]

Was this a mission? Campagin? Multiplayer? Is it possible to set up a quick mission to just cruise around and look for action? Seems like I never see any aircraft when I try that.

[@RequiemsACTL]

This was in multiplayer, so as anything or nothing can happen!

[@falloutbr]

Great video! I am curious... Do you use rudder input to align your shots or just aileron input?

[@RequiemsACTL]

The rudder input to align my shot will happen sometimes...but keep in mind that by doing that your bullets may not converge where you expect. It's always best to shoot while coordinated where you can to maximise the concentration of your firepower

[@falloutbr]

@@RequiemsACTL Thanks for the tip!

[@MartenH45]

On which server did you fly this sortie?

[@RequiemsACTL]

I think it was wings of liberty

[@MartenH45]

@@RequiemsACTL thanks for the answer!

[@renatoyap]

@@RequiemsACTL My Ping is to horrid to fly on that sever, It would be like flying a Brewster Buffalo against a A6m Zero

[@waltergreif4836]

GREAT STUFF KEEP HER COMING!!

[@wallyknew]

Great video, prob a mistake taking the 110 bait?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Absolutely, but I wouldn't think the 110 was baiting me really. Looking at the tacview in hindsight if I switched to that 109 I would have been even closer to those other 2 bandits, so I would have been in an even worse situation 1 vs 3 lol Best decision would probably have been to stay high and try to follow the 110 and just report his position

[@wallyknew]

@@RequiemsACTL Yep, I didn't mean he was a deliberately set up bait, just a tempting morsel, which by nibbling, you set in motion a train of events. I had the impression (from your excellent video) that even as you dived into attack, some little voice in the back of your head was urging second thoughts.

[@RequiemsACTL]

@@wallyknew Yeah you had the right impression. While going down I was definitely regretting it, but ended up stuck with my bad decision so tried to make the best of it

[@countzero7]

Another good video, nice 2 for 1 on 109s, hope they see this and see how bad is that formation. Why go for 110 if you see enemy fighters in area, would not be better to attack fighters and then 110 if hes there, especialy in slower airplane where you dont have hit and run option, for me fight was lost when you decided to go for 110 even knowing fighters are in area, you would have to count on them not spoting 110s gunners and luck to avoid dicey situation there.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yep exactly Zero, I was having second thoughts as I started going down to the 110 but overcommitted myself and ended up trying to make the best of a bad situation I really shouldn't have gotten into. I try and use these debriefs to show what to do as well as not to do, so I'm happy to show examples of me screwing up and dying if it helps people learn something as well as teaching myself :-) I'm not interested in just showing kill cam videos of nothing but successes, it gives a skewed perspective.

[@countzero7]

@@RequiemsACTL i understand, and thats good as its more useful then kill cam videos anyone can make him self look like ace when its not shown how many times he failed atempting thouse. It was just strange decision when there was fighters in area so i wonted to know what was your thinking there as it was not clear from video.

[@flanker909]

Very nice debrief. Been trying to send you a couple of tacviews from fights at sa-sim but don't know how to get a hold of you. Any link to your il2 account or an email perhaps? Thanks

[@RequiemsACTL]

Look for SYN_Requiem on the site www.il2sturmovik.com forums and send me a PM there Flanker

[@Edwin-db9wi]

Why do you choose to only have 2 guns on each side? 4 guns seems to put more bullets on a target in a short amount of time, which is especially valuable as the 47 lacks the punch of a cannon.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yeah it does, but I like the weight reduction to help performance a little. The P47 sucks in that regard so I'll take whatever I can get. With the fire rate of the .50 cals you can still cause good damage and get pilot kills even when removing some guns

[@konatelassina5301]

Did they ever fix the dive speed of the 47? I remember test videos showing the same dive rate as a spit back in the day.

[@RequiemsACTL]

I don't think they've done any FM revisions for the P-47 yet.

[@antoinecharron6062]

I am new to this game. This is the kind of mistake I do a lot! 90% of the time get bounced by a blue because I'm low and fixated on a target. Even if I check my 6, they sometimes come with so much speed, I have not much time to react. My stats are not good....I've been flying mostly the la-5 and yaks. I'm beginning to think that maybe I should try German planes. Being high and bnz seems to be the thing. I love the Russian planes but I feel the high alt performance are not as good. The 109 climbs like a maniac and the 190 dives from the stratosphere and kills you with his impressive firepower. I might be wrong thinking I would do better in a 109 or butcher bird. What do you think?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Hey thanks for sharing your experience Trigger as you're in the same boat as many others out there. It may sound weird to say but don't worry about your stats. Just focus on trying to make an individual flight successful. In time things will improve, but it will take time. I would steer away from the La-5 initially. It's hard to fly right and be accurate with it in my opinion. For yaks I would focus on the series 127 as it's relatively forgiving to fly with great rear visibility (don't take the mirror it blocks too much forward visibilty). What I would recommend for you is to spend a few hours in the Berloga server with just one airplane until you're comfortable fighting with it. You'll get thrown into fights over and over again really quickly, so your BFM and gunnery will improve much faster than if you fly solely on the usual MP servers. The 109 and 190 take a different (very disciplined) style to fly, so I wouldn't recommend it initially without seeing how you fly personally.

[@antoinecharron6062]

@@RequiemsACTL thanks a lot! I appreciate you took the time to answer. I have the yak-1b and yes I like it. I just turn too much with it sometimes lol.... Practice makes perfect 😉

[@MrNonaste]

@@RequiemsACTL What is your opinion of the Mig 3 and P-39?

[@flyingbull8411]

I want to fly the p-47, but the servers are either early war or empty

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yeah it's hard to find somewhere to fly that or the 262. I haven't flown the 262 in MP outside of Berloga at all yet. Usually knights of the air is your best bet

[@slegawsky3292]

Much helpful, thanks!

[@OmegaEGGY]

Out of curiosity, did your P-47 have a radar-guided gunsight? If so, does it work in game?

[@RequiemsACTL]

No it's not radar guided, but a gyroscopic sight

[@zTheBigFishz]

From what I can tell, 20K ft would be even better for the Jug.

[@RequiemsACTL]

The higher you are the better it is for the Jug...down low unless you are ground pounding with some escorts you're gonna have a bad day

[@jimholden7339]

Requiem why do you prefer Il-2 over DCS? Rumored that DCS has more veracious AFM?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Hey Jim, I love The Expanse! ;-) I have several DCS modules and people can argue FMs all day, but for me the FMs in both Il-2 and DCS are both good enough to give me a nice feeling of flight and that's all I'm worried about. I simply prefer Il-2 for WWII content because it's always been a much more complete environment airplanes and scenarios wise, their replay system is less buggy, and the spotting of targets is better. In DCS when I'm flying a jet with radar and AWACS, spotting isn't that big a deal. My tutorials are WWII based because I prefer the airspeeds of the WWII planes to demonstrate them. As airplanes get faster, the BFM starts getting much larger, which makes things harder to see from the cockpit (so in DCS this is a problem). With that said though, I am going to be making some DCS content.

[@jimholden7339]

@@RequiemsACTL Glad to hear about Expanse! I see. Personally I prefer IL-2 because of TAW which gives a distant sense of virtual war, and DCS doesn't.

[@flythething193]

​@@RequiemsACTL I remember the FM for some of the planes in IL2-1946 was already very good. Especially the later 109´s. That being said, do you think COD Team Fusion is as good in this deparment as the current IL2-series? I´m planning to get back to IL2 in some form or the other and COD looks good visually but recently saw a negative review about the FM from Laobi. Any hints and tips are appreciated. Very good video by the way. That dual high speed kill was very pro, as well as the one circle headon! I like the type of unbalanced setup like here between the P47 and the more nimble german planes. It´s a bit like Mig-21´s vs the F4 Phantom in Vietnam. If there comes an official F4 module in the future you would be the right person for such a video. Tough being chased and not having a wingman at the end though, but nevertheless interesting to watch the tacview!

[@RequiemsACTL]

@@flythething193 I really haven't flown COD enough recently to give a valid opinion. I enjoyed the flying aspects of it, but the thing I really disliked about COD was ground handling...the airplanes always weathervaned into the wind. You could be sitting on the ground, engine off, and the plane just starts rotating into the wind. If the F4 is made for DCS I will likely make videos for it as my friend who acts as the "cooperative bandit" on my BFM videos here used to fly it. I would pester him :-) I liked this debrief because it shows a bit of reality to the multiplayer aspect. Not everyone is willing to show their screw ups and that they die even though we all do LOL

[@flythething193]

@@RequiemsACTL Thanks for the reply, and I appreciate that you´re showing both sides of the coin!

[@Charon58]

Can’t get slow in the P-47

[@RequiemsACTL]

That is definitely a true statement! lol

[@TrueGUMAR]

Thats for dumbo AI. No matter one circle fight, or two - airplane with the smalest turn radius will stay inside of your turn and shoot first. Bf109 could do it with ease, if it wasn’t AI

[@RequiemsACTL]

I understand what you mean, but this flight was against real pilots in multiplayer, not AI.

[@z0ro_62]

And thats how you lose ace pilots

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yeah I'm not afraid of showing myself get shot down :-)

[@z0ro_62]

@@RequiemsACTL its all good sometimes things just dont go in your favor it just reminded me of a ww2 story where a German pilot held of a much larger force so his buds could get away