Don’t Discount the Big 12’s Chances to Land Clemson and Florida State

[@K-StateScottFL]

Excellent guest!

[@renfro1997]

If FSU and Clemson did in up in the Big12 it would only be for a brief layover until they get the call. That being said still a pipe dream I doubt the Big10 or SEC hesitates.

[@BOsucks1]

Great show as always! Great and informative guest as well!

[@TheRealJackMcCoy]

This entire conversation with respect to FSU/Clemson is laughable.

[@grobble8954]

Yes Clemson & FSU are laughable. They are stuck in the ACC crying now b/c during several rounds of expansion by the B10 & SEC they weren't wanted.

[@chrissupple9853]

We shall see...

[@MattyIceOriginal]

If there was a number less than zero, that would be the chances of Clemson to the BIG12....

[@KeepChoppin]

The B12 adding Clemson, FSU, Texas A&M, Notre Dame, and Nebraska would be massive.

[@happynotredamefan3736]

Lol like we would join big 12 full time. If acc is gone I could see us big 12 part time but definitely not full time

[@josephwofford5090]

Aren't the GOR contracts pretty much the same with the Bg 12 and the ACC? This is absurd, John.

[@GalathNox]

I used to think it silly when B1G and SEC fans took shots at one another over which was the best conference. Then the Big12 homers came along and said, "hold my beer." The Big12 is a good, solid conference, but not on the level to deserve such delusion.

[@roris5882]

My conference is better then your conference.

[@ThatGuyz82]

@@roris5882 my grammar is better than yours.

[@randycrownover5580]

Re FSU, CU, UNC & B12: What is the current per school payout for the B12? What is the current per school payout for the ACC? Why would any school under the current circumstances want to leave the ACC? The answers to those questions give the probability of FSU, CU, and UNC in migrating to the B12. The probability is just above 0%. About the same probability as winning the MegaMillions.

[@ThatGuyz82]

Because the median team is far better in the big 12. If the top 4 teams in the ACC went to the Big 12, the Big 12 would have a higher payout than the ACC does.

[@observer466]

@@ThatGuyz82 not nearly enough to make up for the cost of the move.

[@ThatGuyz82]

@@observer466 incorrect. The way the ACC contract is currently set, the ACC will be making less in 2025. Which means the ACC is underpaid, severely. If the top 4 went to the Big12, the rise would be substantial. Still not as good as the SEC and B1G. But far better than what they will get thru 2036.

[@joshleyva2249]

That's a lot of words to say I don't know what's going to happen.

[@JuanM-wy5xe]

How about partial membership similar to notre dame to ACC? Get paid same as other big XII teams but with less games … then fsu and Clemson can sell their remaining games to other networks to make more money

[@big12plus]

Another great show John! This idea that trimming the fat to create the "ACC Lite" only works IF ESPN is willing to pay the same amount of money for fewer teams. Maybe yes, maybe no.

[@allend807]

Let’s pay 400 million to get out of a conference pay 30 mil a year to go a conference paying 30 million a year

[@BevanFarmTexas]

Dream scenario, but I see absolutely no way the Big Ten or SEC allow those two brands to get away......even if they don't want them now.

[@tomdean9381]

"Private Equity" just means a company that (a) loans/imvests money and (b) does not have publicly traded stock.

[@robertkauffman8137]

Makes no sense for Clemson to dump one medocre payout for another and pay lawyers and exit fees to do it.

[@craigmorris3055]

Agreed unless with the addition of those brands Big 12 got an additional bump in annual tv revenue, I'm not sure how likely that is.

[@Scottblack5687]

Yeah it does the contract in Big 12 is shorter.

[@ThatGuyz82]

What lawyers fees? Those attorneys work for them. They get paid regardless.

[@robertkauffman8137]

@@ThatGuyz82 If you believe that, then you are unknowledgeable or crazy. They pay for experts, NCAA lawyers, sports lawyers, media lawyers, contract lawyers, and papers for court by outside counsel, etc etc. A colleges staff attorneys are no match for anything beyond gender issues or on campus drinking and expulsion!

[@kendog4971]

Big12 value would go up but so would Big10 or SEC’s so that’s a non issue.

[@becks89]

FSU and Clemson would pay $300-$400M to join Big 12??? I don’t care for Clemson or FSU but this is just ridiculous. Kurtz is in the bag for Yormark.

[@Herb..StateOfGeorgiaOwnsFSU]

FSU to the BiG12. That would be funny 😂

[@naujelbr]

Big 12 KZbinrs / influencers are completely delusional. Stop embarrassing yourselves.

[@LEE_65]

I agree with most of what he said but i disagree on the length of this litigation. I think we will know something definitive before the start of the next football season. And possibly in the next 60 days. I think everything is about to get sped up a bit.

[@ericblomquist1975]

They are not going into the Big 12. Not a chance.

[@HoustonCougarsGermany]

Wow . . . you are so smart.

[@James-fh9zd]

@@HoustonCougarsGermanyhe is right. Why don’t you just go cheer for that cheater Kelvin Sampson.

[@SurferRC]

Lol no chance is the answer

[@stevemak8620]

I will be the King of America long before FSU and Clemson join the Big12...

[@JS-cu3mv]

Big 12 is a junior conference to the Big 10 and SEC, and everyone knows it.

[@terristiver5291]

FSU and Clemson arent paying all these lawyer fees to join a misfit Big 12. A non P2 landing for those two means a ACC split

[@simon2077]

Misfit? Is that the best insult you could think of? I'd rather be in the Big 12 than a sinking ship.

[@tarheel7406]

@@simon2077 In context, the BIG12 has already sunk.

[@deadeye4520]

Dude, no way. FSU and Clemson aren't suing their way out of the ACC unless they have a P2 home.

[@jamesbusald7097]

Alas. They are doing just the thing you say they wont do. They don't have a new home but they are trashing the place where they're staying.

[@adamb6370]

Probably, but there is a chance after they win and the ACC is profoundly weaker. UNC/FSU/Clemson would be in a place to negotiate and take over the ACC.

[@grobble8954]

There is only 1 team that brings enough to get a full share from the B10 & SEC, that's Notre Dame. Clemson & FSU are stuck in the ACC crying now b/c during several rounds of expansion by the B10 & SEC they weren't wanted. Been saying this from the start all the Clemson & FSU people had a fit on these threads. Clemson & FSU could be doing all this just to end up in the B12 & still far behind the SEC & B10 in revenue

[@grobble8954]

@@adamb6370 Take over what? ESPN is suddenly going to give then a significantly better deal. The delusions of grandeur of FSU & Clemson are hilarious. Clemson & FSU are stuck in the ACC crying now b/c during several rounds of expansion by the B10 & SEC they weren't wanted

[@deadeye4520]

@@jamesbusald7097 Of course they have a new home. Within two weeks of the OUT announcement, Clemson had sent "unofficial" reps to Birmingham. They know where they stand. And for FSU, they were weeks away from joining the SEC back before ND joined the ACC as a partial. The SEC has wanted a second Florida university since the late 80s. FSU has a choice to make because the B10 wants into Florida too.

[@jrod112278]

Sure there's a chance but I don't think Florida State and Clemson would be doing this unless they knew that they had a landing spot in the Big 10 or SEC. We shall see soon.

[@CarlaJenkinsTV]

FSU and Clemson aren't going to the Big 10. Stop the delusional and be realistic. Ohio State is getting Floridan Jeremiah Smith without adding FSU. What's the point of adding FSU to the conference when Ohio State is already getting their best players in the state?

[@moffprof02]

@@CarlaJenkinsTV Some would say $ and tv market and brand. Athletes are just part of the potential reasons

[@adamb6370]

FSU will never be on the same conference as UCF. B12 lost any shot at FSU when they elevated a directional school.

[@moffprof02]

@@adamb6370 here is reality check for you… UCF currently makes more money in overall conference distribution than FSU. So… pride over $?

[@roris5882]

​@@CarlaJenkinsTV Obviously Ohio State doesn't have any problems recruiting out of Florida, but all their other schools do. Plus FSU is valuable and expands the B1G national footprint into the SEC's backyard.

[@cjpreach]

FSU & Clemmie Girl to the Big 12 would bring more balance among the Big Three conferences. But I doubt it could happen.

[@Jon23838]

There is no reason FSU or Clemson would want to join the Big 12. They would just stay in the ACC and be better off. There is no interest in joining another second tier conference.

[@garygodorov-kw6jm]

this is not happening FSU and clemson not coming to big 12 are you kiding me? Big 10 FSU and Clemson or SEC that is where they will go. Sorry Big 12 texas and Oklahoma left for Sec Big 12 is a mountain west in power 5 nothing more ASU Colo Utah and Arizona coming to big 12 they do not move the needle in football that is why they are in The big 12. SEC is king football Big 10 gaps are huge from Big 12 give me a break

[@aCycloneSteve]

Why would ESPN say we want to lose half our products to FOX & we want to pay $75M instead of $25M?

[@3tom1789]

130 million is not the floor!! 😂 It’s in all likelihood the ceiling. Talk to a contract litigator. If ACC gets 50 million they’d be doing well.

[@vivahernando1]

This is what I don’t like about Big12 channels.

[@K-StateScottFL]

Don’t watch

[@seandavis1715]

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Fsu deserves to make more money. For what they bring to a conference. Why would the jump from the acc to the big 12? It's never going to happen. Kinda the top 3 what? Are you serious? The big 10 can't come out and say we are in talks with the teams we want. Wow, where are you getting your information from. Florida state, Clemson, or North Carolina will not be in the big 12. Espn hasn't picked up the option to broadcast the acc games. The actual contract is up 2027, and espn has an option to pick up 2027-2036. How can they charge $572 million when espn hasn't even exercised the option to 2036? Fsu leaves the acc for under $100 million you heard it hear 1st.

[@khaledkais6044]

Simple. Big 12 pays more money and has access to huge TV markets

[@billbixby5508]

😂click bait.

[@roris5882]

Has this guy ever heard of 3rd party contractors? Obviously the valuable schools in the ACC aren't siting down directly with the B1G and SEC because that would be tampering. So they hire contractors to do it for them to make it legal.

[@jonm4501]

I suppose that the BIG12 might land everything of theirs other than Football, that's possible. OR the BIG12 would agree to allow them to have 100% of all the TV money they generate, with no GOR and No exit fee.

[@K-StateScottFL]

Thumbs down is not reducing thumbs up. What gives. Fraud. 😂 (not this channel but Google Corp)

[@netdragon256]

Why would FSU go from one conference to one with even less funding, that not only isn't any better than ACC at football, but also didn't show up for the basketball tournament? Finally, you must not have been paying attention but FSU lost the motion in court.

[@nellysan3]

This was really good journalism by both (as expected). I liked how Mr. Baker's assessments came from reading the lawsuits and other factual info. Pros at work here! Keep it up John you're doing great!

[@cllintdevena7712]

It just might be a 60 to 70 team Super League of some sort is coming. Vanderbilt and Northwestern making the same as Ohio State or Alabama ? The Big12 TV market is to much of the US to ignore or ignore.

[@observer466]

Your guest seems to be unaware that the NC judge already ruled that FSU had no fiduciary duty to the ACC (which is obviously true), so there are zero possible damages beyond the GOR and breakup fee. If by February, 2025, ESPN does not exercise their option to 2036, then the worst that leaving schools could face is the GOR through 2027. If FSU and Clemson are not going to be around, why would ESPN exercise the option? Obviously the FL judge will not rule differently. Why would FSU want to come back and reconcile.

[@tarheel7406]

A fiduciary duty is a high and established standard, which I didn't see being recognized between the parties. Lower standards of due diligence, good faith, etc. may still come into play. FSU may still have had a duty to exercise due diligence to protect confidentiality and/or to not defame the conference and other members.

[@observer466]

@@tarheel7406 I am a lawyer and cannot imagine how a team would have any fiduciary duty to a league, other than playing their scheduled games. As to defamation, anything put in a court filing is not subject to claims of defamation. Beyond that, truth is an absolute defense. Finally, as a public entity subject to FL Sunshine Laws, FSU would be limited in what confidentiality it could keep. In addition, if the FL Attorney General demands all of those documents involving a state entity, no one can stop the AG from doing what it wishes. The problem is the ACC is refusing to give member institutions the pertinent documents. That is nuts.

[@observer466]

Except that there is less than zero chance that the top 4 ACC schools would need to go to the Big 12. You really believe that neither the B1G nor SEC would want FSU or NC? How about Clemson? Not sure who is 4th. If UNC and NCState are stuck together, it is not impossible that they could go the Big 12, but just as likely that they would stay in a reconstituted ACC. Do you really think that FSU and now Clemson are going through their cases expecting to not get an invitation to one of the 2?

[@tarheel7406]

@@observer466 a) The defamation would be statements made prior to the litigation. b) There are established ways to work around Sunshine Laws in good faith. FSU just signed a confid agreement with private equity. c) The Florida AG can ask for whatever, subject to successful objections. d) This type of security has been confirmed to be standard by media experts. e) Even if FSU can use a Sunshine Defense for avoidable disclosure, the SEC/B1G won't like that position. I made no comments here re: realignment nor an ACC scatter. Again, I agreed that no fiduciary duties exist here. If the GOR functions partially as the ACC serving as a Power of Attorney, perhaps the ACC owes some higher standard of duty to the members.

[@observer466]

@@tarheel7406 Truth is still a defense. Honestly, I see it as the fight of the FL AG to deal with the Sunshine Laws, and they are likely to get a more favorable than FSU. My experience is certainly that state governments get breaks that they do not really legally deserve, There are no Constitutional issues, etc., so this case is really only of great importance to the parties. I am not at all sure that even other leagues with their GORs are the same. FSU needs the documents in any event. I agree that they should be under seal (and if I were the judge, I would seal them), but will the ACC/EPSN take that chance? If this actually got to a trial (doubt very much), then some of this stuff will come out in public. As far as the SEC/B1G, do either of them have documents involving their teams that is withheld from the teams? If the team (FSU, Clemson, Michigan, whatever) had the documents, that team would almost certainly object to any Sunshine Law type problems. To me the issue is the unwillingness of the ACC to let member institutions have copies of everything. That may be opening a Pandora's Box.

[@odinson810]

Zero chance

[@K-StateScottFL]

The ACC should not settle for anything less than maximum amount.

[@noles9998]

They would but they would have to worry about discovery and they don’t want that whatsoever.

[@kyllerkill]

Virginia is the best bet to go to the big 12.

[@tarheel7406]

Curious... why?

[@noles9998]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@arturobalderas6106]

The Big 12 would soil itself if they somehow landed these two programs, but it isn’t happening because of the money, especially in this new age of NIL, you’re gonna need to keep the money train going if you want to pay some of the top tier players to come to your school.

[@owencargol8108]

Only college presidents decide on conference realignment....not AD's or coaches. Big Ten will never take FSU or Clemson as they are not AAU members...full stop. Only UNC and UVA and NOTRE DAME.

[@danhauser3361]

I don’t think we want them….theyll be spoiled brats… dominate verbally!

[@dp26385]

There is no chance we go to the Big 12. It makes no sense whatsoever. The Big 12 is technically weaker than the ACC which is why they will be the last domino to fall among the power conferences. The Big 12 has one win in the CFP era. That is an absolute embarrassment.

[@HoustonCougarsGermany]

You, little lady, are not in charge.

[@rodneydurrett8604]

FSU was kept out of the playoffs last year because they were too weak to compete in the playoffs.

[@craigmorris3055]

If the Big 12 is weaker then the ACC why is the ACC falling apart... stupid take just dumb...

[@dp26385]

@@rodneydurrett8604 , QB was injured and they were still better than every Big 12 team.

[@dp26385]

@@craigmorris3055 , dominos fall in order.

[@Mr.Ed_Wayner]

Sorry John, this video is pure click bait. Especially on a day where Caitlin will over shadow your live video.

[@wa1w511]

Nobody wants to be the drama queen league.

[@walterabbott5347]

The Big 12 Pipe Dream continues......!

[@505premoto]

UNC would be the most attractive candidate to join the B1G? In 1984 maybe but not 2024. College football is a multibillion dollar entertainment business and represents around 85% of the total revenue. The key metric today is viewership, which is the new currency of college athletics. Eyeballs = Money. No eyeballs, no money. FSU is #7 in viewership (3.58m average per game). In stark contrast, UNC is #46 (974k). In other words, FSU is 3 1/2 times as valuable. That matters a great deal to Fox who is paying the B1G $8b to broadcast their games. An Ohio State-Florida State game would be the national game of the week. Massive money maker. What would an Ohio State-UNC game be? At noon and poorly watched. College football is a money driven business. Just look at the new CFP numbers to see the extent of how much money matters.

[@moffprof02]

Here is a crazy scenario where ACC splits in 2 and both new conferences add a few to get to 10 teams… ESPN doesn’t renew so all ACC teams are free. Magnificent 7 also add Lville, Pitt, West Virginia. The other 7 add UCONN, USF and either East Carolina. Other candidates to either new conference may be Cincinnati, UCF, Memphis. Change the schools around however you wish. Then if Big 12 loses those eastern schools they go west and WSU, OSU, SDST, Boise ST maybe. Just a scenario to think about that probably won’t happen.

[@CarlaJenkinsTV]

In dalukes latest video 'what if Texas Joined the SEC in 1989, he mentions that FSU could have joined the Big 8 (now Big 12) in 1992. 32 years later, this is coming full circle. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3fKcqeXes99passi=QJqYLt7NZBgxqQqy

[@DavidHall-rq1zh]

You big 12 guys talk this conference realignment like your going to be takers. You will lucky not to lose 4 or 5 teams before this is all over. I can see you losing WV, KANSAS, OKLA. STATE, ARIZONA, UTAH, and others. You guys are amazing to keep talking this stuff up.

[@devilfrawg4953]

Nobody is leaving the Big 12 for the ACC though. 🤷‍♂️

[@K-StateScottFL]

Dude, you have no credibility when you leave out the best team over last 30 years: K-State.

[@K-StateScottFL]

Florida State end goal is not nattys but $$$. Cuz they will get less Nattys in Big 10/SEC. I’m applying common sense.

[@SurferRC]

Easier path in those conferences! You can finish 3 or 4 in the b10 or sec and make the new playoff!

[@grobble8954]

Been saying this from the start all the Clemson & FSU people had a fit on these threads. Clemson & FSU could be doing all this just to end up in the B12 & still far behind the SEC & B10 in revenue. There is only 1 team that brings enough to get a full share from the B10 & SEC, that's Notre Dame. Clemson & FSU are stuck in the ACC crying now b/c during several rounds of expansion by the B10 & SEC they weren't wanted.

[@SurferRC]

Fsu would be third highest revenue generator in either sec or b10! They will take them asap for that $$$$

[@ThatGuyz82]

The rank of top Power 4 Conferences is the following order: 1) SEC 2) B1G 3) Big 12 That is it. ACC is a dying pile of meat that the rest are surveying for parts.

[@tarheel7406]

~Snickers~ As things stand, the BIG12 is the worst P4 on all material factors.

[@ThatGuyz82]

@@tarheel7406 see everyone. We have a clear ACC fan who does not realize he is trying to state that a dead conference is even in the running. It was less obvious that the PAC-12 was coming down, and frankly it was clear as day for them as well.

[@tarheel7406]

@@ThatGuyz82 Dude, the BIG12 is already dead in this context. It's the worst P4 in athletics, academics, media value per team, prestige, etc.

[@ThatGuyz82]

@@tarheel7406 it is not the one that won't exist in 2 years. And right now that is all that matters.

[@tarheel7406]

@@ThatGuyz82 a) Why won't the ACC exist in 2 years? b) That wasn't a qualifier in your original comment. It's just amazing to me. The BIG12 is a slow cooked frog. It's already cooked, but since it happened over time, it doesn't see the reality,

[@RedMage409]

😂😂😂

[@retireorbust]

NC, Virginia, Duke are the most prestigious of the ACC academically. I think those are the brands the Big10 are most likely to pursue. Clemson, FSU, and Miami probably SEC. After that the big two each take one Big12 school. My guess, Kansas to Big and Oklahoma State to the SEC. Why, to take a shot at little brother but those two are very attractive.

[@troywest7045]

The B1G would take Stanford over Duke every day of the week. I think NC goes to ESPN just because ESPN would possibly give them higher than a half share for the current media deal, while I doubt anyone outside of Notre Dame gets more than a half share till their next media deal.

[@retireorbust]

@@troywest7045 I love Stanford. I thought the Big would have taken them before Oregon. I forgot about them. I don't consider them ACC.

[@SurferRC]

B10 likes $$$$ more than academics. Fsu is going to land there