Don't Eat The Smelt In The Bay, They Say | Sault Ste Marie, Lake Superior Smelt Fishing Advisory

[@TheHideawayLife]

You nailed it. We have been getting hammered with questions and requests for our thoughts on this because we are on the river. But there really isn't a whole lot of answers. Why can it be sold but told not to catch and consume. No one know what to do. We will have to have some chats Dave. Good job Amanda. Next project biodome.

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Sounds like some good chats to have on the Rivers very soon!

[@lostfungi9515]

Very informative, Thanks for bringing attention to this subject!

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Glad it was helpful! There is a lot of misconception that everything contaminating our fish is mercury. It's not. Mercury is just an easy word to remember and gets tossed around all over the place.

[@billyboy4797]

Very interesting discussion, this makes we ponder about a few things that I'm sure you are probably already aware of that concerns this very mighty, yet vulnerable inland sea. Its interesting to note that if these compounds bioaccumulate, why are they're not advisories for apex predicators like salmon and lake trout? This may point to a recent loading of these contaminants into the waters. Spawning smelt may have been exposed to this in a contaminated tributary. PFAS are commonly used in fire fighting foams, especially for petroleum. It is also interesting to note of the oil refinery fire in Superior Wisconsin on April 26th, 2018. I don't know if these compounds were used to extinguish the fires, but nonetheless it did coincide with the annual smelt spawn in parts of western Lake Superior. I also wonder if toxaphene was secretly used in Lake Superior in an attempt to control the lamprey. Note that cold water lakes contain more toxaphene, as it tends to "gas" less into the atmosphere. Also the big lake has a very long retention time, 200 years or so. Its would be curious to investigate weather climate change may temporarily increase toxaphene levels in Lake Superior, as the "grasshopper effect" may amplify atmospheric deposition into the lake from southerly air masses. As the long warms, it is a possibility that the lakes primary chemical signature may change, as cold water holds on the toxaphene longer. Also studies have looked into the two main compounds to produce chlorinated camphor (toxaphene) which is pine oil and chlorine. Note the pulp mills around The Lake use and produce those exact same ingredients. Because Siskwit Lake on Isle Royale also contains high levels of toxaphene, the study case was closed. The stocking programs of Lake trout and decline of forage fish like smelt and herring could also be responsible for the higher uptake of chemicals in larger fish in the Lake Superior food web.

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Lots of questions for sure. Proper terminology would be biomagnification. Which is when toxins accumulate in predators. Bioaccumulation is in regards to an individual fish. There are advisories for larger fish. Just little known information. Kept secret by the commercial fishery lobbyists AKA $$$ AKA to keep Capitalism alive, well, and vibrant. The video after this one goes over some of that information, and where to find it (in Ontario, anyways). And good points about the PFAS and fire fighting, etc. Ontario MNR is requesting samples of smelt from this particular bay, this year, I suspect to test for PFAS and PFOS. There are so many points we could have touched on about toxaphene, lamprey, lake superior turnover, pulp mills, etc. The complication of the whole situation with fish, water and what we've managed to do to destroy it (as humans, and capitalism) is beyond the scope of what could possibly be discussed here. This is just the tip of the iceberg. That hopefully informs at least a few folks to discover what is in their food. Be it wild caught/hunted or purchased in stores.

[@billyboy4797]

@@NorthOntarioDave thank you for your reply. Many, including myself, have eaten fish from this lake, so it is concerning, and its frustrating to know that with all the mistakes that were made in the past, just repeat themselves over and over again. That's right, capitalism, greed and the almighty dollar. There has been some interest in the feasibility of developing rainbow trout farms on the north shore, (I believe Nipigon or Black Bay) ,business will capitalize on that as well, and undermine the environmental and health risks involved.

[@alidadelorenzi910]

Thank you for this! Appreciate the plain language. I think I need to watch it over again though because so much to take in! Would love to learn about whether there are clean up options to advocate for? Is that a thing or are we doomed to live with these chemicals forever?

[@NorthOntarioDave]

It’s such a complex discussion. I’m glad it’s happening now. I’ll try to address that question soon.

[@rileybarrett5701]

Love the video guys, very interesting stuff. I wonder how many smelt you can have per meal per month.

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Based on the recommendations from the OMNRF, none here in our bay.

[@differentfins]

Interesting. I have never eaten smelt. I've caught a couple on hook and line in a lake near Sioux Lookout that had them introduced in the 80s. In Zone 4 and 5 there is no netting season at all, angling is the only legal method of harvesting them here. I wonder if the levels of toxins are less on the west side of Superior like around Thunder Bay for example, is there less bioaccumulation on the upstream side of the lake? Would the concentration increase as the water flows east?

[@NorthOntarioDave]

It would seem the contaminant is widespread throughout the lake. The US side, west, is also reporting Toxaphene as well as PFAS and PFOS in smelt. Similar advisories there.

[@differentfins]

@@NorthOntarioDave must be the vast catchment area of the lake, especially if it's coming from the atmosphere. That is sad. Also I like your point of commercial fishing not having to add warning labels to the fish sold in stores. Funny how nutrition labels require brands to specify if they have gluten or milk in their products but not these chemicals.

[@NorthOntarioDave]

It’s quite alarming. Capitalism, though. The mighty $$ is more important.

[@billyboy4797]

@@NorthOntarioDave for a little while longer anyway.

[@OutdoorsygalO]

Thanks for making this video. It truly is eye opening. 👀 But we have so many questions still. ❓❓❓ You mentioned Mexico using these chemicals, and in 1961 in other areas, but maybe there are submerged or buried barrels of these chemicals in the areas surrounding or in this particular bay? Gold mining is one way mercury could get into waters, but what about pulp and paper production? Is there anything being done to locate the source of these chemicals that are found in the fish in this particular bay? See.....we have lots of questions....even more than this....but hopefully something will be done to figure this all out. Thank you for raising awareness about this. It is really important to Anglers as well as commercial fisheries and consumers. Sent you a “YouBoat” (not typing the “S” word, bots don’t like it), and also sending a BIG Like! 😊👍🏻 Great interview! I will be sharing this on my fb page.

[@NorthOntarioDave]

These are all valid questions! Unfortunately, no one seems to have an answer to them. Or, they are buried under heaps of government documents, likely with red tap attached to accessing them. In a later podcast, we might try to touch on the questions you have. Cheers! And love the 'YouBoat' lol. We'll swing by later this eve for some entertainment!

[@OutdoorsygalO]

@@NorthOntarioDave ~ Thank you so much for covering the topic, it is so alarming really. You mentioned a chemical that the source was airborne. Why is your bay the only one with this contamination if it’s airborne? Thanks for keeping us all in the loop. And thanks for liking my terminology re: YouBoat. 😉

[@NorthOntarioDave]

The chemical is in the entire lake. Testing seems to show that it is particularly high in this bay though.

[@JEEPBUZZ97]

@@NorthOntarioDave likely particularly high due to the bay being a safe harbour to ships in times of foul weather, or could variations of the solutions to lamprecides (pesticides) for sea lamprey control been used? without documention it would be hard to drum up facts. I often wonderd why the Ranger Lake road shoulders and ditches are sprayed fequently with pesticides, as per the signage along the way, blue berry pickers need to be aware of this especially along the roadside near Garden Lake area

[@OutdoorsygalO]

@@NorthOntarioDave ~ All of Lake Superior? YIKES! 😱

[@williammckenzie5792]

Get some tested by a neutral third party. Some right out of the fish isle, and some caught in the bay. Be interesting to compare numbers. Great topic. Thanks to you and the wife.

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Not a bad idea, but probably much harder to do than it might seem. I'll explore it, though.

[@alidadelorenzi910]

Just asked same question on GR Facebook page. Probably best to answer there, if you have one. Thanks again.

[@ARCSTREAMS]

ok so im looking at the advisory link you gave in the description but having trouble reading the info,i understood the size part of it but then its confusing when they say "general pop" or "sensitive pop" and what the numbers represent? are these the amount of meals per month? they dont say the size of a meal? here is another guide www.ontario.ca/page/fishing scroll down to "eating ontario fish"

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Hello ARCSTREAMS! Here is the follow up video we did that answers quite a few of your questions, and likely others that you will have too. Thanks for watching!

[@ARCSTREAMS]

@@NorthOntarioDave where is the vid?

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Whoops! Forgot to link the video for you. Here's the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqmcpmWMoL55d7c

[@ARCSTREAMS]

@@NorthOntarioDave thx ill have a look

[@markpk7455]

Well most all the rivers in the lower half has PEFAS so they tell you don't eat the fish.

[@KevinRusnellDigitalConsultant]

great video

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@tonyarnez5193]

I watch you guys on the wilder stead channel ! you get around eh

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Hah! We sure do! Cheers Tony!

[@ARCSTREAMS]

its a shame to see all these toxins and pollutants entering the norther lakes where you thought the ecology was still good ,i been interested in smelt lately and looking how its being fished in niagara river and many lakes and streams in north ontario, i think i may have seen some between docks at a marina i visited, is the season to catch them with nets from march to end of may or can they be found during summer months too sporadically? and how bad is it to eat them? also i used to read about guidelines for how many meals you can eat of certain fish and what the toxicology report was of certain areas but i forgot where i used to read this info,could not find it in the ontario fishing regulation summary

[@jimbo8972]

thx for making this video

[@NorthOntarioDave]

No problem Jim. Thanks for watching.

[@willbarbour9695]

Oh wow this takes me back if only you knew a cumulative effects fisheries ecotoxicologist! This calls for the Von Bertalanffy curve, mobilizing fishers for data generation and citizen science.

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Want a job at the Wilderstead buddy?

[@Justmeokok]

This is just a question and nothing more, how many people have died because of it?

[@NorthOntarioDave]

I suspect it’s quite hard to determine the underlying source of cancers that these chemicals cause. What is known, is that the chemicals are carcinogens.

[@TreDogOfficial]

Smelt are pretty low on the food chain. I think these advisories are overly conservative.

[@kevincowie593]

Awesome guys...trust Goverment...NOT. She is a beauty.

[@ellenk.vanlaar277]

I'd like to show you some data about the World War ll shooting range and bomb disposal on the East side of Lake Superior, at Cape Mamainse. There are also tailings from three uranium mines on this side of the Lake. i believe that there's been a cover-up for many years. Thanks

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Yes, there is a big uranium problem in groundwater in this area.

[@thorsaquatics6310]

Lake been populated for a while.. sewage going to the lake for years now

[@NorthOntarioDave]

Indeed. This has nothing to do with sewage though.

[@brendanaslovar4565]

Any relationship to chem trails?

[@NorthOntarioDave]

It was a very common pesticide in North America up until the 1980's. It's still used in other countries. So what's here now is either drifting in the atmosphere from current use in those countries, or its been in the water, soil, etc since the 80's.