Don't Get Puma-ed! Top 5 Reasons We Ditch the Land Rover Puma Engine

[@romedschatzer3180]

I have now 300000km on my 14 years old Td4 90 and never had any issues. And it always had to work hard in the mountains of Austria. ( full power, full speed)

[@ChrisG-pm3py]

300kkm on heavy 130 2.2 bas 170 tune regular services and only engine fault has been one turbo replacement at 220k. However clutch plate springs and damper have failed 7 times, surprised this weak link didn’t make the puma hate list.

[@raymondallo9947]

And then there are people who have close to 400,000 km on the engine. And please stop saying the M57 engine is rock solid. It has its fair share of problems. I had two X5s. One had fuel injector problems at 42K, oil breather problems. And my cars had all their service done at BMW on time or before, But as all engines you have to look after them. Biggest problem buying a M57 engine is getting one with a good history. Otherwise you open yourself to a world of pain

[@allthingsmotorized1885]

m57's have been around longer and i guarantee have had less catastrophic failures

[@jethrolyons7420]

@@allthingsmotorized1885less perhaps, but certainly not leagues better. Mahker could be more transparent by sharing costs of the engine swap.

[@stevebeck9470]

Yup my 2004 E53 X5 blew its turbo at 50,000 miles

[@andrewhoward7200]

Strange but my 2007 110 Puma Defender has done 200,000 miles with minor problems. Transfer box oil leak. 2 new injectors. Otherwise no problems. It's been mapped with no speed limit and a very responsive engine. Straight through exhaust, no friggin egr. Brilliant vehicle.

[@Brainlixr]

My puma engine in my citroen relay has 200,000 miles and is still going strong . Regular service is the answer

[@waynestevens3662]

Mines fine... regular services, always warmed up, never thrashed.... I will say i nearly fell off my chair .... £1000 in parts and now hes at 2.5k for 2 days labour.... I respect you guys for making quality products but at those numbers i will be sticking with my not yet broke tdci.😊

[@fernandoroldan2288]

Had a Puma 2.4 125000 miles All the problems mentioned on this Video…… EGR valves kills this engines. The air box intake is way to small the turbo doesn’t get enough air Injectors are bad and Glow plugs will get stuck in the head If you want to keep the original engine you need to Get a bigger intercooler Get a cool air intake Blank EGR Map the engine with someone decent Oil service every 5000 Change the fuel filter regularly Pray the injectors work………. Not even mention the noise but that doesn’t bother me Now if I had the funds not M57. LS3 is the way to go in my opinion Great video as usual.

[@wearemahker]

Finally someone who’s been through the mill with a puma 😬 thanks for your honest words sir

[@AJ-yw5zy]

💯 the low saps oil is a killer on the Puma, 5,000 miles is a must, get the best oil you can afford, good diesel with a splash of millers won’t hurt. Once you’ve mapped the EGR out remove, the inter cooler and flush it out, upgrade all the inlet hoses with silicone ones. When you change the fuel filter I always fill with additive, give it a helping hand in cleaning the system. Oh and run it on red diesel 😂

[@stgeorge36]

When these engines were under development we broke timing chains all the time on the dyno. They were designed with twin counter rotating balance shafts and chain breakage was so bad we changed the design multiple times. Head cracks, injector cracks all problems. Believe or not these were the best they could do. Puma was an issue from day 1 - looked great on paper though.

[@wearemahker]

@@stgeorge36 thanks for this info did you work on the development?

[@harveysmith100]

@@wearemahker He is too ashamed to say

[@ItsAdventure]

The 2.2 Puma on my 2013 is awesome. Pulls like a train and returns 35mpg. Just a shame the transfer box and drive train is mashed. Still, it gives me plenty of opportunity to learn more. Always a plus side! ;o )

[@andrewreid2228]

Interesting video. I purchased a Defender new in 2008 with this engine. It had a problem with over revving during gear changes when it was new. The main agent fixed it under warranty at the 3rd attempt by a software upgrade. It towed our caravan to John o' Groats and back in 2013 without too much difficulty. In 2019 at 150,000 miles it started making a knocking noise mainly when going uphill. I had a Morris Marina 1.8 which did the same thing in 1986 so I took it to pieces and saw it had small end failure, two broken piston rings, slight wear on one camshaft lobe and a stretched timing chain, which had cut a deep groove in the tensioner. I was able to fix it with second hand parts from another engine, new piston rings and new big end shells. When the Puma started making the same noise I assumed that it had the same problem so I took it to pieces and ordered a rebuild kit from Lymm Engine Components. I could not find anything wrong with my Puma but I fitted the parts from the rebuild kit anyway. Then I got some help from Automarine in Hove, who diagnosed injector failure. They supplied replacements, which I fitted myself plus a fuel control valve as I also had an issue with uneven running. Once I had the vehicle running again they coded the injectors for me at their premises. I agree that you should never bump start this engine as the timing chain tensioner is operated by oil pressure and one of the camshafts only has a few teeth connected to the chain.

[@andrewreid2228]

I have a couple of questions. Back in the 1970s people often fitted different engines to their cars. Basically if you could get it to fit then there was a chance that it would work. Right now at just over 160,000 miles I am doing a chassis change to my Puma Defender. I needed a new bump stop so I went to get one from Gumtree, a local Land Rover specialist. I got talking to one of their mechanics who told me about rivet nuts which I had never heard of. He told me they had a customer who had wrecked 3 Puma engines so they had fitted a BMW engine for him instead. Then when I got home I realised a problem. Modern vehicles all have computers. If a computer has been programmed to control a Ford Puma engine, how does it control a BMW engine instead?

[@andrewreid2228]

2nd question: Ignore the 1st question for now - I will read your swap guide but I still have another question. I have nearly finished my chassis change but I have a problem with my CSC. The clutch has a flexible hose attached to a funny shaped metal tube which is then connected to the pipework of the CSC in the bell housing. The problem is that my metal tube goes nowhere near the CSC. I have clearly done something stupid as it must have been connected before I dismantled it last year. Do you have a video which shows how this part of the vehicle goes together? (SUNDAY 15th DEC 2024 - PLEASE IGNORE THIS COMMENT - I HAVE FOUND OUT WHAT IS WRONG - IT SEEMS I MAY HAVE LET THE GEARBOX HANG ON THIS HOSE AND STRAIGHTENED OUT THE STEEL PART - MY GARAGE WILL BE ORDERING ME A NEW ONE.)

[@daniel.mcleay]

I have a puma and have had none of these issues

[@markevans5596]

Yup. My 2011 2.4 Puma killed an engine at about 75k. I would have loved to put something different in but I live in Italy and the law makes that sort of thing very difficult, plus there are no specialists like yourselves doing these swaps. So in goes a brand new stripped engine and head sent from the UK. I still live in fear of it happening again 😢

[@wearemahker]

Interesting story thanks for sharing that. We didn’t realise the problems in Italy with the laws

[@markevans5596]

​@@wearemahkerwell well, what timing, I've just killed another turbo. Or actuator, not sure yet. Last one I fitted about 18 months ago, OEM Garrett. Don't suppose you can suggest a tougher aftermarket option??

[@dx-xb]

I will believe this video 100% because they are not selling anything in it..... oh wait.

[@wearemahker]

We’re a business! It costs us to make the videos, we’re obviously going to promote what we sell. We’ve never hidden that. But what’s in this video is our real world experience. It’s not like we’re making this up…. Well, the red diesel bit but that’s our attempt at a bit of a joke.

[@dx-xb]

@@wearemahker sure and I don’t blame you at all for that. I’m just saying that it’s not all that bad.

[@wearemahker]

@@dx-xb we made this video because of the pure frustrations puma engines cause and so impractical and difficult to diagnose issues.

[@squashedflyracing2310]

Well i must of had a good one ive had my defender 90 puma 2007 still got it, all ive had is just a bit of wear n tear as expected ive had no engine problems ( touch wood ) no leaks nothing plenty of power, good gear box. Its well looked after, seviced regularly. So you may just of had a bad batch of them come in with drivers whom thrash every vehicle they get in... maybe?

[@terryhussein5485]

Thanks, great video. Does the 2.4 engine have the same problems?

[@chrisrundlett3707]

Yes

[@DarrenPhillips001]

I’ve got a 2.4 tdci in my transit & I’ve had none of these problems. It had done 240k. Because a heater plug snapped off & it was bit high on emissions I took it out & fitted a replacement I had ready prepared. The new injectors were not coded & it started ( but had to do a learn process on the Autel). I’m looking forward to another 240k. The only problem with the original engine the 6mm x 100mm(🙄)injector bolt came loose once & injectors x2 bouncing up & down.

[@tommy4244]

Basically you have described every engine fitted to all makes of car?

[@wearemahker]

Answered in this weeks Q and A video for you. On the channel now

[@mA-pg4wu]

yeah, 10k with no oil in the gearbox, the 380 took it like a champ

[@ChrisC-ht2br]

Each to their own…..I disagree with most of the points raised in this video. I’ve had my 2015 Defender since new, 153,000km & zero issues or leaks. I’m religious with oil changes & fuel filters. Admittedly it’s not big kms but I’m very happy with it. I had a Transit once with the same engine, 280,000 trouble free miles . I think there are better engines but mine has been faultless.

[@wearemahker]

@@ChrisC-ht2br I will call you in then every other day when we get the call “Dave my engines failed what should I do” we don’t bullshit this is what we are up against daily.

[@markriley2733]

My 2011 2.2 puma 90 is at 133k miles the last £70k with a Twisted remap. Not any big dramas in my 7 years ownership it’s serviced every year. It’s my daily drive, Should I be worried ?

[@wearemahker]

Answered in this weeks Q and A video for you. On the channel now

[@markriley2733]

@@wearemahker thanks for answering my question On the Q&A Great advice thanks

[@captarmour]

Thanks I saw that he answered moments after I commented! Its not a drop in, he mentioned an adapter is needed :-(

[@bentop9282]

Real question is - how does it cost to fit a re-built m57 ?

[@wearemahker]

Check out the Q and A video in the coming days, we’ve answered this here

[@OllieHill86]

What’s the going rate for the conversion to an old 200k m57 engined cleaned and dressed up? £14k plus??

[@joedimaggio3146]

Can you fit a TD5 bonnet to an M57 swapped Puma? Or do you need the bulge to make space for the M57? Or, alternatively, can you swap a TD5 for an M57?

[@wearemahker]

Question answered in this weeks Q and A which is up now

[@spudboy1328]

And that's why I sold my Puma for a Landcruiser... Didn't have such serious breakdowns as discussed, but numerous minor things. Lost confidence in it. That was my last Land Rover, after 20-odd years, and 7 or 8 LR vehicles.

[@captarmour]

great video! will the TDI 200/300 bolt on to the 6 speed g/box of the puma? I have a good tdi 200 but a bad 2.4 puma

[@wearemahker]

Dave answers this in our latest Q&A - thanks!

[@cromwellforestry2662]

This seems mad as ive had 2.2 transits that have grafted day and night double shifting towing 3t+ for over 200k miles. So why are they so unreliable in a defender? Also i replaced an engine on one when it finally let go and it cost me just shy of 4 grand drive and drive out. As nice as it is i just cant see how one of your 40 grand m57 swaps are good value for money 🤔

[@lweleven3423]

The transit had a great reputation they say it’s the best of engines go forever the later transit engines are junk . Bit puzzled here

[@babramugwagwa9864]

Mine after service no starting just cranking,2,4 puma defender

[@206898195311]

If they changed the fuel filter and didn't prime it you'll have trapped air. Bleed the fuel line. Happened to me 6month ago.

[@John-hf1ig]

Never had a problem with my 2009 Puma, Well, just a new clutch when first bought it then nothing runs every day no problems and so comfortable inside being a Puma. Have travelled many times in the previous versions such as tdi etc but they really are just for the farm, just terrible in all ways.

[@dion5643]

Sadly all modern engines are getting poor, but the puma certainly isn’t the worst, the 2.4 better than the 2.2, My 2008 defender has worked hard in the 12years with me, nearly always towing, often upto the maximum weight. It’s on 192000 miles now, I replaced the injectors at 170 as a matter of course. For low down pulling power, it take some beating.

[@denebradley3272]

Only like the n47 engine the timing chains are bad surely it’s down to maintence and not everybody’s got 30k to convert it to bmw engine

[@davidthomas9267]

I don't think Ford knows how to make a good engine!!

[@saltiresam]

Cosworth……

[@theofs4456]

As someone who's owned six vehicles with Ford engines (Endura, Duratec and Lion) and done roughly 200k miles in them, virtually fault-free and with excellent mpg... I beg to differ!

[@DanHall777]

I’ve had 2.2 and 2.4 Both have been good and reliable.

[@wearemahker]

We’re not saying they are all bad but when they go wrong they cost a fortune to fix unlike other engines we actually like the 2.2 Tdci it makes great torque when stage 2 remapped.

[@TheLamb6vt]

Yup dead 2.2 at 50k 6k replacement

[@wearemahker]

Not cool

[@999mrkhaled]

I do follow this channel i think they git it completely wrong in this video

[@wearemahker]

@@999mrkhaled please tell us what you think is wrong ?

[@stephenthomas8178]

This is becoming a bit same old don’t you think? I have a 08 plate puma - never a hitch and it was the engine that enabled a defender to used as an everyday - even on motorways. There are plenty of people who will agree. Why not find another angle on selling your - no doubt superior engines - yawn…

[@wearemahker]

@@stephenthomas8178 what is it you specialise in sir ? We do not feature this to promote our engines we featured this to demonstrate our genuine frustration for the ford engine im sure if we did a genuine poll on who has had failures and who hasn't we would majority fail. I get 2-4 calls a week so think about that Yawn!

[@mwestcrew]

@@wearemahkerYou get the calls because you’re the guys that replace them. People without problems aren’t going to call you

[@garypoulton7311]

Basically put a TD5. With an R380 and LT230 in it, or even better a 300tdi. My 1987 ex MOD 110, with tuned TDI 300 is, imo the ultimate LR, TD5s had inferior hubs and rear axles, Puma is just stupid, BMW engines are good when good, and all too often horrid, fuel economy is poor on them, you are putting max tourque through the gear box, and the later non salibury rear diff is not up to the job.

[@TucanoTMK1]

I Had a Td5 (90 and Did Not Like that Engine As Much as i Had Wanted,Oil in the Wires to ECU and it Was Thirsty. The Only Engines That Were Any Good Were 200&300 tdi They Were Great Engines, All the Old ones Were Rubbish,V8 The Best of the Petrol if You Could afford to Run it. Its Not Just Engines That Landrover are Useless at Making The Rest of There Work is Shoddy as Well. They Sold the Defender for 50 Years With No Locking Diffs !!!!Yet The Merc G Waggon Had then Straight away,Landrover Think They Know Everything about 4x4s and There Wrong They Dont and There Reliability is Shocking,But People Keep Paying Stupid Money For the Latest Thing No Matter As Most of them Have No Clue.

[@drmark8233]

This is not correct, he's just selling Mahker 😮

[@grahames9228]

Bit harsh.

[@wearemahker]

Not after the week we’ve had with them. It’s a wonder Daves got any hair left!

[@disco_richy6467]

@@wearemahker Send them to whichever garages look(ed) after the fleets of transits, taxis, rangers etc etc that the Puma engine has done a bazillion miles in over the last decade and a half...

[@emp731]

My 2.2 puma just blew up. Main crankshaft bent throwing pistons out of alignment...basically totaled motor.Just over a 100k miles or 165000 kms absolute rubbish...I blame the Ford Motor. Found On Rubbish Dump. Do not pass go, straight to jail. Do not collect your $200 . Thank you very much.

[@wearemahker]

@@emp731 now would you like a bmw installed sir

[@emp731]

@@wearemahker Yes i do..I am in Australia tho, so not really a good option to send Defender to you BUT I may need parts to order from you at a latter stage..Thankyou.

[@highdownmartin]

200 tdi.

[@jonatday]

Found On Rubbish Dumps

[@peterkinnaird6268]

Oh dear Another video pandering to the luddite wing of the Defender community.