Don't Let The Cable Be The Bottleneck On Your EV Fast Charger Installation

Join Branden to visit a few charging sites around Charlotte NC and talk about his recommendations for the DCFC CCS cable ratings that make sense for each power level as well as recommendations for current requirements on each state's NEVI plan to meet the spirit of the FHWA requirements.
Rivian Gift Guide: • Rivian Accessory Guide...
Check out Tenet for any EV financing or refinancing needs: bit.ly/bftenet
Thank you for watching and don’t forget to like and subscribe for more content!
Follow me on Twitter: @brandenflasch
Any inquiries contact at [e-mail]
_______
Here are some of the products and services that we use on the road and in the making of videos. Check them out with the links below and it helps support the creation of future content.
Amazon shop with multiple categories: www.amazon.com...
TeslaFi Referral Link - 30 day trial instead of 14 day: www.teslafi.co...
Music from Artist - 2 Months Free!
artlist.io/Bra...
A Better Route Planner 30 Day Trial: abetterroutepl...

[@ArtiePenguin1]

For better or for worse the NEVI requirements didn't specify an amperage minimum just a power (kilowatt) minimum. I sure am glad I got an 800 volt class car for all the future public DCFC infrastructure. It's just too bad others with lower voltage EVs will suffer. Hopefully some NEVI funding recipients go above and beyond the minimum 4 x 150 kW requirement. Also small correction, NEVI was part of the BIL (Bipartisan Infrastructure Law) and the IIJA (Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act) enacted in November 2021 *not* the IRA (Inflation Reduction Act) from August 2022.

[@brandenflasch]

The FHWA NEVI requirements do not, but the actual state NEVI plans can add additional requirements. Appreciate the correction on which law it was part of - now that you saw that, the revised EV tax credit was part of the IRA. Hard to keep track!

[@ArtiePenguin1]

@@brandenflasch It would be great if you and Kyle could go over all of the Western states' NEVI plans in an Out of Spec Podcast episode. Basically any state west of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers. Some states have more detailed plans than others regarding the exact locations for DC fast chargers.

[@brandenflasch]

The tricky part is that the NEVI plans don’t necessarily have tbe final requirements - have to wait for the RFP to actually get final requirements

[@ArtiePenguin1]

@@brandenflasch Yeah New Mexico's plan wasn't that specific so I asked the NMDOT to provide a list of NEVI funding recipients. I'm still waiting to hear back but hopefully because it's public money they'll be allowed/required to divulge that information. Once I know where the chargers will be located or who will install them, I can start looking for locate requests on the NM 811 website.

[@brandenflasch]

@@ArtiePenguin1 No NEVI funds have been awarded yet

[@msbarnet1]

Love they way you incorporated your Ohms law plates with the honoring lineworkers (LW) specialty plates, that's witty!

[@mikecarter2737]

Charts! Tables! Diagrams! I remember the days when you could see Amps, Volts, and kW on the screen. Thanks for talking about this - the labeling has been close to fraudulent and it was great to see a couple of units that could deliver their kW rating to real vehicles. The EVgo "100 kW" CHAdeMO units installed with Nissan were restricted to 200A so never got more than 78kW with Leaf Plus.

[@brandenflasch]

78kW in a Leaf is pretty fantastic

[@suvari225]

It was pleasure to listen again Branden. I don’t know how we gonna educate the people. I think correct labeling of stations goes a long way. These Amps, KWs are similar to “Octane” on gas station. Given how much ICE vehicles around, some people still uses “Premium” gas on their basic non performance cars just thinking they are doing something good. Because labeling is misleading. It shouldn’t be called Premium, should be called just 93 octane. Because it is what it is. 200A cables should not be funded as 150KW. It would be shameful. Ideally stations should be labeled as their Amp capability per connection. Most people should know Volt*Amp=watts. Once the labeling is done correct I trust in people, they will learn.

[@skyemalcolm]

Thank you for bringing these important facts into the public charging discussion in general and about NEVI specifically. I’ll certainly promote this within my sphere of influence because we all need to be aware of these subtle and yet important distinctions of cable hardware.

[@brandenflasch]

The general concepts are easy - the details are hard and even figuring out information like this is not easy. Everyone just has their own sales pitch 🤷‍♂️

[@Scooter-K]

Branden, would love to see a video called "Road tripping Strategies for faster EV Charging." Basically explaining how you make location and resource decisions on the fly when taking a road trip given the state of the current US infrastructure. With so many alternatives and failures of so many charging networks it seems that with Kyle's data (Rate your Charge) and your experience we could all benefit by understanding how a seasoned traveler like yourself can optimize routing and save time, while reducing "charging fatigue."

[@gelu88]

Awesome video. Us charging nerds have most of this knowledge already but I love that we have it in a single consise video.

[@chrisshinkle7224]

I had 3 questions as the video went along, but you answered all 3 with your wrap up. Another very enlightening video. Thanks Branden!

[@brandenflasch]

Excellent! I’m curious - what were the 3 questions?

[@vlad2838]

It would be nice to see more of the Circle K 300 amp units out in the field. A network of Circle K stations (like their brethren in Norway) would go a long way to broadening the public DCFC experience. If they were stable and widely available, I would choose them over EA.

[@brandenflasch]

It’s coming :)

[@barryw9473]

Great video. Would be nice to see a chart of different cable specs from each vendor.

[@Chris_In_Texas]

Someone needs to be a whistle blower on this... They shouldn't be receiving any funds if they can't meet the minimum requirements of the NEVI. Call out all these charging providers / manufactures.

[@brandenflasch]

That requires the requirements to be robust.

[@Chris_In_Texas]

@@brandenflasch y I guess that would make sense as the typical government spec documents are rather ambiguous in nature and leave a lot for interpretation. I guess if they assume all 800V class cars are only going to use them would be their out. 🤦‍♂️ While we only have Teslas that have a much better DCFC network I do feel sorry for the average non technically inclined person to figure all this out. The Bolt guy wanting to use the 350kw charger because he is in a hurry and wants to charge faster. The forced adoption in 2035 is going to be horrific if both the manufacturers and charging companies don’t sync up and start working together to form a consistent experience for these people. There will be many people that live in locations where they can’t install home charging and will be 100% dependent on these fast chargers. The networks have to be able to scale to gas station numbers to be ready for the autos. Not just on the interstate highways but also on the back roads and county highways. I myself have to go out of the way to do trips in the Tesla and can’t take long distance fast routes I take in my gas powered cars to get places. There is no EV network in a large portion of the states. Mostly only on interstates. Keep up the good work sir. 👍

[@wpherigo1]

Some great videos on these topics, Brandon. A few thoughts. For a really targeted video that gets right to the point, you could do some Perun (channel name) style (but shorter) PowerPoint videos. This way you could succinctly provide equations and talking points on the left and illustrative material on the right. Secondly, even in videos like this, I think it would be valuable to put some equations up so industry viewers could see the numbers for what you are talking about. As in… “plugging in the numbers on this equation you can see that this vehicle charges with these voltage, current and power capabilities and if your cable only supports this current/power the power to the vehicle looks like xyz”. But you really do a great job pointing out the issues.

[@KyleConner]

Great video!

[@rt309s]

NOW I understand. Thnx for the explanation, Branden!

[@Lynyrd_Evnyrd]

I just wanted to give a thank you for making this video 👍 Every time I try to explain the importance of current carrying capacity and cabling with respect to 400V based EV charging, I’ve been referring them back to this video. It’s well explained and shines a light on the state of the art tech in boosted CCS cables.

[@brandenflasch]

That’s exactly why I made the video so I’m very glad you’re finding it helpful!

[@Scott-sm9nm]

19:00 it seems that liquid cables could be advantages for busy EV charging stations where there is 1 car after another using the charger. Think future vs your 1 time use example. Hope that makes sense. BTW, excellent video.

[@brandenflasch]

In theory, yes, but not with the current reliability of liquid cooled cables.

[@georgepelton5645]

Tesla V3 liquid cooled cables are reliable and very easy to manipulate. So there is no technical reason for the poor reliability for other brands. Time for them to wake up and get competitive.

[@vancejj]

Charging cables.....Just a little above my pay grade, but keep up the good work!!! I have a R1T and hope to have an R1S in the driveway soon. I'm trying to figure out how to bring some awareness to EV charging in our area here on the Alabama Gulf Coast where everyone North of us comes to vacation. We have very little in the way of DCFC even though we are a vacation spot. Reach out to me, come on down, and I will take you fishing!!

[@brandenflasch]

What area is that in?

[@vancejj]

@@brandenflasch Alabama Gulf Coast - Orange Beach

[@vancejj]

Update to my post above. On my way home from Houston in a R1S that matches my truck!!

[@barryw9473]

I see your fingerprints on the Circle K stations. Nice cables! Why are there so many crappy Huber + Suhner cables out there?

[@brandenflasch]

Likely because people don’t realize you don’t need liquid cooling

[@charlesjack6571]

Thanks so much for such an intelligent, in depth overview. One interesting part (to me) was your statement that EVgo is changing over to per kilowatt billing vs. per minute (a blatant rip-off). Why any States attorney general allows per minute billing is a mysterious oversight. In Florida, I've been questioning EVgo numerous numerous times about their per minute logic with no response. I can hope they soon realize that there isn't one other than (what else) greed.

[@msbarnet1]

In Wisconsin it's illegal to charge by kWh because only public utilities can sell electricity. There are efforts now to change that law.

[@nishiki393]

@@msbarnet1 Yes this is the reason in most (if not all) of the states where per minute billing is still used! And per minute billing can be advantageous if you have a fast charging vehicle, but it's not the fair way to charge and most of the CPOs don't use per minute billing by choice.

[@bananapudding8275]

That's not a burnout, that's a tire chirp

[@brady783]

Great info. I watched this while I was stranded at a non functioning EA station with 2% SOC, waiting for a tow truck. Might as well get more education on the matter while I have time to kill.

[@brandenflasch]

Oof! Would be curious to know more about this situation - what EA site was it?

[@brady783]

@@brandenflasch Passing through Bend, OR. The app said they were online and plug share shows it a high score. I left the last charger with adequate charge to make my destination. Temps dropped to 4°F and my battery depleted to 2% 20 miles short. Pulled into this charger, the only charging site around, and it would not initiate. Possibly the sub freezing temps...? Customer support tried numerous times to activate as well, with no success. All dispensers failed. Luckily I had enough juice in the battery to run the heat for a while. Temps last night dropped to -5°F. Tow truck was fast and driver was very friendly. So that was nice.

[@brandenflasch]

@@brady783 so the Bend, OR site was completely dead?

[@brady783]

@@brandenflasch correct. I was unable to activate any of the chargers. None indicated they were unavailable, they just would not activate charging. Screen read "charging start error". Do you think this was an extreme temperature issue? The tow truck dropped me off at my destination and I drove up to an AC charger and stayed for the night.

[@brandenflasch]

@@brady783 wow! It could be? Are you on Twitter? Should share your story and tag me (@brandenflasch) and @rateyourcharge

[@David_Day]

When it comes to the cables, there is another limiter in addition to the max supported current--the session duration that the cable is rated to support at its max current.

[@brandenflasch]

I talked about this with boost functions

[@BrandonDoyle.]

Hmm interesting, thanks for sharing

[@Lorwildrose]

You should send this video to VW electric division.

[@jamiebel4319]

Love this stuff B! And why wouldn’t you do a burnout if you were driving a Dodge Charger???

[@FrancisPoulin-uw6bx]

Good job!

[@TheRealLaughingGravy]

Could they possibly make EV charging any more complicated? Anybody who's considering buying an EV for the first time and stumbles upon this video will go _running_ to a dealership to buy a gas-powered vehicle. Imagine having to consider the specs of every gas pump, pump hose, and pump handle, plus the pump's gas output capacity and your car's gas input capacity, before you can fill 'er up. What's next - printing the instructions in Klingon?

[@brandenflasch]

This video was mostly intended to be watched by those making specification decisions - ideally so that normal people won’t have to consider any of these aspects.

[@kerryandbill]

Spent a lot of time looking up as I watched most everything you said go over my head. How about doing it again for people like me who aren't electrical engineers.

[@chrisshinkle7224]

I had the same issue, but what I found was by watching several videos, especially from Branden and Kyle Conner, that it eventually made sense and I "mostly" understand. I at least get the main points. By no means would I be ready to pass any certification courses, but a lot did sink in. Keep watching!

[@firesprk]

Hey Brandon, any rumors of chargers on 40 from raleigh to beach? We need some bad.

[@brandenflasch]

You’ll see soon :)

[@firesprk]

@@brandenflasch I sure hope so. Right now we have 1. Kinda risky.

[@brandenflasch]

Where would you place a charger if you could?

[@firesprk]

@@brandenflasch between Wallace and Warsaw.

[@pedroleite8279]

A few newer cars - like the my24 transition vehicle you had - are announcing 205 kW charging on a 400v system, because of the 500A limitation on CCS what should we expect?

[@brandenflasch]

What do you mean by the MY24 transition vehicle? There are some things in motion to try and raise the 500A CCS limit, and if vehicles are able to use Tesla Superchargers, they should be able to get over 500A.

[@joel89039]

So does that mean that as a 800v class vehicle you have an advantage at any of the split power units? Is it splitting the amperage or the power? It does seem that 800v has a good advantage when it comes to charging, at least with cables

[@brandenflasch]

Yes, that’s correct.

[@ArtiePenguin1]

If you're splitting power, you'd hit the power limit before the amperage limit in an 800 volt class car. Example: If a charger has a 90 kW or 200 A limit when splitting power, then a car with a 750 V battery pack would request 120 A and hit the 90 kW power output limit. In most cases 800 V cars have a big advantage when it comes to DC fast charging since cable amperage limits don't hinder charging speed as much as 400 V class cars.

[@brandenflasch]

@@ArtiePenguin1 that limitation is only on that specific Delta hardware however

[@godofdun]

What a mess! As ev adoption increases this is going to be a real bottleneck. Your average car buyer will likely outright reject vehicles that require them to actively think this much about how to put go juice in the thing they get to work in.

[@brandenflasch]

Ideally charger operators will follow my advice so that normal EV drivers don’t have to think about these things

[@godofdun]

@@brandenflasch Let's hope at least some of this happens!

[@barryw9473]

I do not like 100 amp BTC Fatboys.