Tesla vs Rivian vs Electrify America vs EVgo vs Freewire Charging Infrastructure Site Architecture

[@brandenflasch]

Look forward to seeing how this video does and what you guys think of it - this is by far the nerdiest video I've made about charging infrasture. If you aren't already, be sure to follow me on Twitter for continuous discussion of infrastructure. twitter.com/brandenflasch

[@nishiki393]

Oooh, this one looks especially exciting, I can't wait to watch it, but we'll probably watch it over dinner tomorrow night. Thanks Branden, I can't think of anyone better to do this video, so it's really cool you did this! We always appreciate all your effort and willingness to share your knowledge! 🙏🏻

[@mikemacman]

The nerdier the better. I'm curious how you learned all this and got a job working with charging sites. I've figured out some of it poking around online but I'm still confused by KVA.

[@RaulDominguez23]

You did a great job explaining the RAN site infrastructure.

[@israndy]

Nerdy enough to get me to subscribe

[@HeavenGuy]

@@israndy - Me too.

[@TylerBundy260]

Loving all of these infrastructure videos. Makes me really want to pivot to the EV space for my next job.

[@brandenflasch]

EV infrastructure could use more actual network infrastructure knowledge…

[@bradbeckett3800]

Me too. Not sure where I would even start.

[@georgepelton5645]

@@bradbeckett3800 I would suggest an Electrical Engineering degree, or training to become a lineman

[@erikbonn8250]

Love the technical video Branden. The infrastructure is key. My wife went to try and public charge her PHEV for the first time and it was a terrible experience. Having to download an app, giving away a bunch of personal info, then get a one time code that wouldn’t work multiple times. She summed it up simply: “Shouldn’t I just be able to swipe my credit card like a gas station, and why can’t they know/tell me when the site is down? This will slow adoption big time for the average person”. Thank you for your work!

[@brandenflasch]

I 100% agree with your wife. That’s why I’m making so much noise.

[@erikbonn8250]

@@brandenflasch keep it up man! We gotta get the word out somehow!

[@ericroe]

Many stations do have credit card readers and you can just swipe your card and charge.

[@TechnicalLee]

One thing that's probably worth an entire nerd video is short-term overloading of electrical equipment to achieve higher charge rates. Tesla seems to be king at this currently. Everything in the electrical world has a continuous rating, but you can actually push most things past that rating for a few minutes to get faster speeds. Which is fine as long as nothing overheats. I think the Tesla superchargers can put out 750 amps for a couple minutes, which is crazy amperage. Same thing with utility transformers, they can usually withstand a 200% load for 30 minutes. Which means that most site transformers are currently oversized for the site utilization. This is a good thing because it means the site could be upgraded to higher power equipment in the future without necessarily replacing the transformer. For example, I think it would be possible for Tesla to run 1500 kW of charging off one 1000 kVA transformer, it would only be an issue if the station was just slammed with vehicles, but the station electronics could derate down to 1000 kW. Either way there's a lot being left on the table in terms of getting the maximum output out of the existing hardware. A lot of charging electrical equipment is being overbuilt and underutilized. I would like to see CCS stations outputting 700+ amps for peak power. The existing liquid-cooled cables can handle that briefly. We should also get faster charging speeds in cold weather if everything was fully optimized to run at maximum safe temperature.

[@googleuser4434]

Your suspicion is correct. There are many ex tesla engineers at rivian, especially at the charger infrastructure group.

[@chrisshinkle7224]

Thanks Branden! As a still new to EV owner (18 months) I consider myself in the very basic stage when it comes to charging. I own a Tesla, but I am always trying to learn more about CCS charging, so between you and Kyle from Out of Spec, I feel like I am being exposed to the good, bad and ugly of EV charging. I am also very curious about the Freewire chargers, and they seem to have a lot going for them. Anyway, thanks for these videos. I think a lot of us really are finding them very helpful and informative, despite still understanding only about a third of what you say. (Which is better than the 10% I was getting just a few months back.)

[@CheddarKungPao]

Thanks for spending a good chunk of a day making this nerd level 9,000,000 (yes 3 orders of magnitude higher than normal!) video. Loved it. Really hope something gets better soon in the CCS world.

[@stevedowler2366]

Great detail on how the power is moved off the grid and into the cars, thanks Brandon. Nobody else except Kyle and Tom Moloughney are covering the nitty gritty of charging. Your knowledge level of electrical systems is 'way above most of us, myself included for sure. One thing I'd like to see is some specific coverage of pull-through sites and the best to worst configurations. A number of sites I've seen do a fantastic job of providing room for the car plus trailer without blocking other stalls. Other sites are located close to buildings or walls where the trailer combo has to park at an angle to reach the cable from the stall and they end up blocking a couple stalls. Cheers and charge responsibly 😊

[@tom_hoots]

Nerd Level Nine Thousand -- yes, more please. (Kyle Conner reference, of course.) There is a lot of detail that it just doesn't hurt to understand as we move towards more and more drivers having to depend upon this equipment. But yes, we want to understand this stuff better, and we appreciate your work to help educate us.

[@Scooter-K]

Awesome video Branden, in fact would love to see more just like it…with a greater breakdown of the technical stuff for dummies (like me😂)! I’m just starting to get some of the concepts. I think the benefits of understanding the charging infrastructure are far greater than most people think particularly because it can help people like me make better charging decisions. Your channel has been the best at doing infrastructure overviews and would love to see more just like this episode.

[@COSolar6419]

Rivian recently completed one their Adventure Network sites (with 6 DC dispensers) here in Montrose Colorado. Currently only available to Rivian drivers but there is also a single Waypoint unit with two plugs. The Level 2 Waypoint unit can provide up to 11.6 kw and is available free to anyone with a J1772 port. Hopefully Rivian will someday open up their DC network. Currently the DC units see very little use.

[@ChrisPaceAZ]

This is SO good, Branden. I learned a ton and you did a great job explaining things without needing an electrical engineering degree to understand it. Bravo!

[@TNitroH]

I loved that video! As a retired electronics technician I was able to keep up! Ohms law in my memory banks put to the test. Tesla knows what they are doing Here for sure.

[@berthogendoorn2133]

Am old electronics tech with High Voltage experience, great to see the tech aspect of EV charging infrastructure, kook forward to more updates as hopefully the charging providers improve their charging experience for the customer!

[@benwinslow3101]

Very helpful to be able to have a basic idea of what I'm looking at when I charge. Thanks Branden!

[@robert5008]

It seems to me the FreeWire is the way to go. The key to success with the FreeWire is communication to the driver on how much battery power is left in the station at a given time.

[@brandenflasch]

I think once they have the DC bus option between multiple units, the 50kW input option and a site with multiple units it can be a scalable solution. Until then and with current software, having a single unit at a busy site will lead to a poor experience.

[@azorglub]

Maybe at a small rural gas station that will 3 cars a day. Otherwise, it won't work at busy places

[@robert5008]

@Zorg I saw a interview with their CEO and he said they could get 10 charges a day out of a single unit. It makes a big difference though on how much power is coming in from the grid to recharge the battery pack.

[@azorglub]

@robert5008 interesting. From what I have seen, battery is 160KWh and feed was 20KW. Not sure how they get 10 charges in one day (call it 12 hours since folks don't typically charge in the middle of the night), unless average charge is 30KWh

[@ericroe]

@@brandenflasch if they DC bus them together will the utilities allow them to each be on separate meters?

[@firesprk]

Another good video. Was hoping the Rivian charging station was a little further along. Read the NCDOT plan for charger’s every 50 miles on corridors. We desperately need chargers down 40 to beach.

[@viplav76]

Thanks Branden. Exactly the kind of video we needed to see. Gives so much a better picture of the nature of the problem

[@WilliWater]

Nicely done, let's hope infrastructure includes flooding, stormwater runoff, drainage, etc.

[@pawpatrolnews]

Fascinating. You could be making everything up and I would have no idea.

[@ericroe]

Great video, very informative and getting into the technical details. One thing that would have been good to note is that Tesla Superchargers have no screens, no buttons, and no credit card readers, which all the 3rd party suppliers need to have. And the NEVI funding will also require.

[@austincappon7513]

Interested to hear more about the reliance vehicle network comms for communicating with the Tesla backend. Pretty wild what you can do when vertically integrated. Definitely feels like there needs to not only be redundant network connectivity backhauls (thanks, Dishy) but also means of failsafes for situations when network backhauls are out to avoid drivers getting stranded when unable to auth sessions--thinking cached sessions that can billed post network restoration, or something. These are really interesting videos. Appreciate the knowledge!

[@erikselectricvehiclechannel]

Your videos are awesome! This was really exciting. I wondered if Tesla stations were using the data capability of the cars to transmit charging station usage to Tesla, thanks for getting into that.

[@steveurbach3093]

Great presentation on the differences. Freewire's cable strain relief orientation looks 'built to fail', coming out the side instead of down or an angle.

[@brandenflasch]

Agreed

[@sivlinhe]

Interesting to see some different solutions. I do not think a a "best" solution can be determined. The fact is, that there are so many operating factors, that I guess each manufacturer and CPO as well as their customers would set as their preference when constructing sites.

[@realev21]

Fantastic video. Love the site breakdown detail. Keep up the great work.

[@HumbleBrownWarrior]

Really well explained, I am learning a lot from your video's keep up the great work! And thank you!!

[@user-to2rf1rj5v]

Incredible how elegant and efficient Tesla Superchargers are compared to everyone else. Even the V2's.

[@yanivzv]

You should definitely check out the Scotchman Travel Plaza charging station in Rock Hill, SC. This station includes a Noodoe charger with the green ZOOZ Power energy storage system based on flywheels.

[@brandenflasch]

I’ve checked it out. It’s a demonstration of excess for no benefit.

[@yanivzv]

@@brandenflasch Yup, It's a pilot site for testing, the grid connection is virtually limited by software

[@meganote]

Wow. I really appreciate this kind of coverage Branden. I've always been curious about the infrastructure at these sites. Y'all have some great EV charging there in Charlotte!

[@AllElectricFamily]

Great video with lots of nerdy information, Thanks for the explanation.

[@georgepelton5645]

Branden, Thanks for this very informative and interesting video. I really like learning more about charging infrastructure. I also find it interesting to look for the connection to the medium voltage feeders that supply the transformer. Perhaps adding that to future videos, and maybe go all the way back to the substation and its connection to HV transmission lines. One thing to note about Tesla’s V2 cabinets is that they have 12 of the same chargers that were installed in the original Model S. This had three benefits: 1) Fast to market with only one charger design to validate and tool for production for both cars and superchargers, 2) Automotive class reliability and validation with testing for wide range of ambient temperatures, salt spray, vibration, etc. 3) Redundancy allows operation at slightly reduced power if one or two chargers fail, allowing plenty of time to schedule repairs efficiently. Really a genius move by Tesla. Other charger OEMs and EV OEMs should take note of this strategy to get good reliability and uptime. I have not seen any info on how Tesla V3 cabinets are designed, except that perhaps the PowerPack and MegaPack inverter design was used for V3 superchargers as well. if info is available it would make an interesting video for your channel. 😀

[@danh489]

Thank you for making this video. Love seeing all the details of each installation.

[@brianriebedriveselectric]

Cool tour, really interesting, and simple enough that I could follow it. Thanks!

[@macbayboy]

Thanks Branden! Learned a lot in this video.

[@Crazypostman]

Great video! Very interesting to see hardware I don't normally get to see. Closest fast charger to me is 35 mi and it's a 50 KW BTC that won't even charge a 800 volt car. Next closest site is a crappy BTC site that has eight dispensers and only one of the high power ones work, And it's like 60 mi away 😂

[@davidws5439]

Brandon very good video with lots of information on different networks. 👍

[@mikedsjr]

Gold. Pure Gold.

[@nishiki393]

As pretty much everyone in these comments attests, this was indeed definitely excellent Branden! Thank you so much for all your effort on this and pretty much everything else you do to make the world a better place!

[@matthewprather7386]

This was a great primer on how these sites are designed! I was going to ask whether the dispensers need AC for the display and lights, and I’d guess the cooling… Answered! The battery buffered dispensers are interesting… Supporting maybe 10% duty cycle at full rate. Maybe good for some sites. I don’t think peak load management makes sense for high usage stations - charging times are already long. And if it’s a high demand time nobody wants to wait even longer.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

Amazing video Branden! 99.9% of this information was new to me. Thank you so much for another amazing video!

[@teardowndan5364]

The obsession should be on ubiquitous access to L2 charging: if you can plug in at 2-7kW wherever you go, you don't need to worry about finding a DCFC location for anything other than roadtrips. If your workplace has 2kW, that is 16kWh during a typical 8h day, enough to cover a ~100km commute in a typical electric car.

[@D02rock]

250,000 miles in two Teslas. Network is the best by miles. I use CHAdeMO and CCS adapters and try out third party networks over the years and they often fail miserably. 2-5 minutes fiddling with starting a charge is the worst when i may only be charging 15-30 minutes. If others can't process faster they need to charge first then communicate. Maybe they give three minutes of free charging occasionally but they could code it for a cool off period if no payment is processed so no one is unplugging and plugging back in to take advantage.

[@sallerc]

Interesting, thank you for sharing. Would love to hear your feedback on the new V4 superchargers, when more info about them are available.

[@mossimo972]

Great video Branden!

[@Kryptonlogic]

Fantastic explanation and video Branden!

[@jackcoats4146]

It seems like Freewire has the right idea for non-big site charger deploymnet. Tesla with a Megapack could probably be similar and not have 'demand charge fees', especially if they would include solar canopy for both the cars and their equipment!

[@billferro8854]

Wow, Branden, this is a Master Class! You made a complex topic very understandable.

[@xNYCMarc]

FYI: When someone says "100% rated" and nothing else in terms of electricity, it means the breaker is rated to 100% (continuous duty). That is not the case at these charger sites. The NEUTRAL is 100% rated at these sites, not necessarily the breakers. The information available only mentions the neutral, so it isn't really correct to just say "100% rated". It's "100% rated neutrals" in this case.

[@brandenflasch]

Appreciate the additional insight

[@ai4px]

I went to an EVgo charger site and they said it would be no charge... I thought it would be free. But they meant "no charging"... lol. and it was free... no charge for no charge.

[@berthogendoorn2133]

Forgot to mention, that on the Ionic 5 I see why it can hit 175kw on the 150kw labeled dispenser! Another reason why 800 volt architecture is more effecient.

[@johnturner7322]

Thanks a great explanation. Listening to you and others (out of spec) I don't think an electric vehicle is for me unless it is a Tesla (that I can't afford) or just wait for years for the others to get up-to-date! But at 64 years of age I don't think I can wait that long.

[@dregonzz]

Now as an experiment, get 12 Tesla's at low states of charge to all plug in to one site at the same time and see what they pull 👏

[@TechnicalLee]

250 kW * 3 cabinets = 750 kW output/12 = 62.5 kW per Tesla

[@ericew]

85-277v -- man that's a wide range of wiring scenarios. 120v hot neutral, 240v (single and 3 phase ) hot hot, 480v 3 phase hot neutral. Can wire directly into virtually any site in the US without another transformer. I'm not familiar with EU wiring but I presume that this would cover most there as well.

[@theaverageev]

Great video! Learned a lot! Thanks!

[@cherokee180c0]

Crazy to see how everyone else is still years behind Tesla. FreeWire to me has the best new design to lower installation and operational costs for local high power DC charging.

[@fitybux4664]

13:24 I was thinking about this for a bit. It wouldn't cause that much degraded customer experience. If the internal battery pack is still charging and has, let's say, less than 50% capacity, the charger could mark itself as "IN USE" on PlugShare/etc, to notify potential EV cars not to go there unless you want to wait.

[@brandenflasch]

Part of the live status should be battery removing kWh

[@fitybux4664]

@@brandenflasch I agree. More info in the consumer's hand = better decisions.

[@TechnicalLee]

@@brandenflasch Ideally I should be able to check how many kWh are left in the Freewire pack before I get there so I know if it's full or empty.

[@LarryButler-kp3se]

At Festival Center Tesla charger in N Charleston, SC, a single 250 KVA utility transformer powers 9 stalls.

[@jeffballphoto]

great video!

[@cyrusk9864]

Great video Branden. Thanks. On the Tesla V3 Supercharger the name plate shows post DC power (8:43 of the video) , what is that ? If I am thinking correctly, the rectifier cabinet is getting about 350 kW input AC and the output power is 250 kW dc? That is horribly inefficient. Now the section that says "DC input/Output" on the nameplate shows input power of 575 kW DC and the voltage range is 880-1000V. So what is the actual DC voltage delivered at the dispenser 500V dc or higher? So are these buck rectifiers that take 880-1000V input dc and output 500 V dc? Lastly, as you suggest scalability is a huge problem for charging infrastructure. I am not sure how all these infrastructure architectures are scalable with 480V ac input. Would a higher voltage like 4.160 or 6.6 kV help the scalability problem ? For the same feeder like the ones right now where we have 480V transformers supplying power, if we had higher secondary voltages, of course current sourcing would reduce , but not if the feeders have capacity. Right? Yes, Tesla is smart in optimizing on the DC side by having a common DC bus for their rectifiers etc. maybe there are something on the AC side?

[@danburkland]

Of course the RAN location is in a REI parking lot 😂

[@StefanoFinocchiaro]

Actually Tesla V3 supercharger's can be future proof because they can scale them by just adding new cabinets (but utility need to swap the transformer for a beefier one)

[@brandenflasch]

That’s my suspicion as well - I believe that’s what they’re doing for Mega Chargers

[@felaxchow207]

Very cool overview of different site DC Fast Charger site designs along with its pros and cons. Tesla in the beginning had the chicken or the egg problem they had to solve and downright got it down to a science in my opinion. If Congress got their act together and mandated a national plug standard like CCS2 in other countries early on, I think EV adoption with go a lot smoother in North America. Secondly, automakers need to have a standardized location where their charge port going to be. If they "decide" to go with the Tesla model, then it should be driver rear or passenger front. In turn, charging station site design would be less complicated to plan out. Btw, the V2 super charging station in my area has a Starlink dish too. There is a visible WiFi SSID: Tesla Service.

[@markmagiera6115]

To truly future proof these stations, they must be set up for "drive through" stalls & not parking spots. Also with enough tail space for trailer/towing vehicles. Seems that installations are still shoehorn-ing dispensers like it is 2012 & the vehicles requiring charge are Bolt/Leaf sized cars. Especially the gas station installation, that install is like it is an afterthought of an owner attempting to "service" a niche market. Niche market approach is what we are seeing with DCFC sites. Tesla has established their network for cars. Once they (if ever) deliver their truck, the Tesla sites will change. However, EVGo, EA, CP, (insert your new provider of the month label) are not setting themselves up for network distribution for a road-trip traveling public. It is their direct failures in site design that inhibits EV adoption.

[@rnursemd]

I was just stunned by the unsecured disconnects!

[@fitybux4664]

12:50 That Freewire is around a quarter of a million dollars. I could see some crazy KZbinr installing this at their house. 😆

[@brandenflasch]

They’re not quite than expensive but close

[@fitybux4664]

@@brandenflasch The price I could find was in Canadian dollars. 🤷‍♂ It might even be cheaper, that was just a Google search. It's one of those "if you have to ask, you probably can't afford it" sort of deals.

[@ArtiePenguin1]

Thanks for doing this very in-depth and technical video. I've been waiting for a video like this for awhile. It's good to know that Tesla's V2 Superchargers only go up to 410 VDC. That means many high 400-volt architecture cars won't be able to charge there (or complete their charge) once they go above 410 V. It would also mean no E-GMP cars could charge there since they request about 450 V when at a 500 V charger.

[@brandenflasch]

I don’t actually believe that’s correct anymore or new S/X wouldn’t be able to use them - they’re also 150kW not 135kW anymore

[@ArtiePenguin1]

@@brandenflasch Oh okay, so I guess they did an upgrade and the specifications plate isn't accurate anymore. That's good because a max output of 410 V was really low.

[@TechnicalLee]

I think E-GMP cars can actually convert the 400V input to 800V output to their battery packs using their inverters, so they can still charge on 400V equipment.

[@ArtiePenguin1]

@@TechnicalLee Most "400 V" equipment actually has a max output of 500 V. Many 400 volt class cars have a pack voltage range that can go as high as 450 V. As evidenced by Bjørn Nyland's videos, E-GMP cars request around 450 V when at a 500 V charger. So yes they can deal with the lower voltage but they only go as low as ~450 VDC. Branden said that almost all V2 Superchargers have been retrofitted to go up to 450 or 500 V when the max output increased to 150 kW. So my original concern isn't really an issue anymore, just at very old non-retrofitted sites.

[@TechnicalLee]

@@ArtiePenguin1 Interesting, if 450V input is required that's probably why the E-GMP cars only seem to charge on some 400A stations but not others. Older 410V stations won't work, they just sit there at 0 kW trying to charge.

[@tom_hoots]

Here's something I would like to learn more about: How does the average EV charging station compare to the power supply / power consumption of other businesses? Or "average homes?" What is the average amount of electricity going into a battery electric vehicle charging up, say, compared to the average daily consumption of the average home? Or is it more like the average daily consumption of something like "a hundred average homes?" I -- like many other folks, I suspect -- have no idea how to quantify the amount of power going through these stations, and into these battery electric vehicles. Thanks as always for your information!

[@TechnicalLee]

"It depends" would be the best answer here. Houses spend a lot of time not using much power. But let's use a clothes dryer for example, which pulls 5 kW. If you divide it out, one of those big 1000 kVA site transformers could power 200 clothes dryers at the same time. That gives you an idea.

[@azorglub]

Awesome nerdy video. My understanding is that Tesla stations are also much cheaper than the competition

[@brandenflasch]

Until Tesla actually sells them to a third party we’ll never know and even then the prices will likely be confidential

[@johndavis7257]

I wonder how much of the issues with EA and EVgo are internet connectivity. Theoretically many should have access to hardwired internet, but if they’re using cellular I ver much could see them not having any data about what’s going on with the sites at times. Plus the cost would likely make them want to limit how much it would talk over cellular.

[@saimtalat6009]

Great watch, thanks

[@skicourt8761]

Can you have a video on EV OBD's and Apps

[@kevinmiller5467]

19:14 It's safer to have the disconnects open to the public similar to how gas stations have e-stop buttons for the pumps.

[@brandenflasch]

It’s completely unnecessary. There are multiple other precautions on the circuit.

[@kevinmiller5467]

@@brandenflasch What precautions does it have other than a fuse / circuit breaker / RCD? If the dispenser or my car catches on fire I want to be able to flip a switch and know I've cut power at least on the upstream side.

[@brandenflasch]

@@kevinmiller5467 the vehicle has multiple precautions that will open contactors, the dispenser will open contactors if any loss of isolation or pilot signal is detected, cabinet or charger has multiple fault detection / trip devices on AC and DC sides, the branch circuit is protected, the main circuit is protected and the transformer connection is typically fused.

[@kevinmiller5467]

@@brandenflasch Call me crazy but I like it. Where I work i've seen contactors weld themselves together inside a remote disconnect and the plastic that switches them broke so you could still switch the device to "off".

[@brandenflasch]

@@kevinmiller5467 regardless, if they’re installed, they shouldn’t be one of the most prominent items on the site just asking for a hooligan to turn them off.

[@calvertcolin]

So could Tesla, theoretically, add a cabinet or two at a site without adding additional dispensers to increase the available capacity on the DC BUS? If so, are there any locations that they've already done this? Or would it come at the cost of higher demand charges so perhaps not without on-site Powerpacks?

[@brandenflasch]

It’s possible, but they’d need to rip up concrete and add additional grid capacity in most cases.

[@TechnicalLee]

More likely they just update the site transformer and cabinets to bigger units using the same architecture. That would be easier than reconfiguring the site.

[@lkuhn65]

Tesla should start a business to do site build outs for other CPOs. They have the whole design down to a science.

[@nishiki393]

I don't think they're too motivated to do that or to truly open up their SC network with an adapter because the SC network is now their only main competitive advantage in the US... well that and production capacity, but that will be diminished in a few years too.

[@lkuhn65]

@@nishiki393 unfortunately I think you are right

[@SonaEnergy_CK]

It's harder than that. Tesla makes the dispenser and vehicle, so they have engineered everything to work together. Other CPOs (with exception of maybe Rivian) make nothing. So they are buying the dispenser/all-in-one unit and then someone else makes the car and everything has to work together. It's not so much a matter of site design vs. what components they can utilize + how motivated the CPO is to maintain the site and keep it working.

[@lkuhn65]

@@SonaEnergy_CK agreed. But I think Tesla's equipment is much more reliable than what other CPOs are using, and their sites seem to be laid out much better (and consistently) than other CPOs

[@SonaEnergy_CK]

@@lkuhn65 oh absolutely! I think a big factor in their reliability though is that they control everything (hardware, firmware, software, cars) whereas others don’t really control anything except the software and well…

[@anthonyc8499]

Great video, learned a lot!

[@skicourt8761]

As a retired IBEW inside wireman thank you for the nerd in you. Now, new goal, can you reprogram my VFD in my IONIC 5 sport mode?

[@brandenflasch]

Ha, I wish!

[@skicourt8761]

@@brandenflasch Had to ask😁

[@kellycarmichael999]

Interesting that the sites have utility supplied transformers and metering on the secondary. I am used to the utility only supplying up to a 500kva transformer.

[@brandenflasch]

Completely normal in the US

[@AlexWaardenburg]

Does it make sense to put the power distribution and conversion components in the middle to keep the high amperage DC runs from the cabinets to the ports short? Like they did at that last Tesla site you went to?

[@brandenflasch]

It can make sense, yes

[@austincappon7513]

Odd that the EVGO 350 kW dispenser requires 120VAC. Seems like it would be pretty easy to transform/rectify from the HVDC input. Would definitely be cheaper that including another transformer and distribution panel.

[@brandenflasch]

Hardware mfg don’t necessarily care about the cost or complexity of the supporting infrastructure

[@austincappon7513]

@@brandenflasch I totally agree. But I would argue that they really should. Unnecessarily introducing an additional site requirement/failure point is not in the best interest of the end user.

[@Robert-pm6bm]

I’m confused on the charging gateway on the version 2 chargers. Can you go over that part again?

[@brandenflasch]

What part are you confused by?

[@Robert-pm6bm]

@@brandenflasch what does it do

[@BelterLoader]

I tried an EV go charger this weekend with my Tesla and it was horrible. Tesla Supercharging is miles ahead of the competition.

[@Jeddin]

When you do you think these chargepoint providers will put in NCAS handles now that they’re free to use? And for EvGO to start using the full power NCAS handles instead of the low power chademo adaptor they use now. Seems like they’re leaving a huge expansion on their ev market on the table by not rushing to provide non adaptor Tesla service to the majority of EV out there.

[@brandenflasch]

No hardware supports it yet to my knowledge

[@Jeddin]

@@brandenflasch it wouldn’t be just a software update to the charger after they install the handle? Tom Moloughney from State of Charge talked about how Tesla forced Chargepoint to remove from display chargers with Tesla handles at an old CES but not before he was able to post a picture of them on his Twitter. I would think Chargepoint at least would be ready to go just dusting off fhd hardware/software they had already prepared years ago

[@brandenflasch]

In theory, yes, but you still need firmware to make sure all works well, testing to go along with it and building the supply chain for a completely new part and ensuring quality

[@skyemalcolm]

16:30 I guess that 1:1 vs 2:1 cabinet ratio meant each cabinet was 175 kW? 175+175=350 and that would pretty much track with what I’ve seen at the car from a number of 150-labeled dispensers.

[@brandenflasch]

@@skyemalcolm that’s correct - some configs are current limited but on a higher voltage vehicle you’ll typically get more than 150kW

[@TechnicalLee]

350 kVA input * 3 cabinets = 1050 kVA total AC input, so I think that's where Tesla gets 1 MW from. It's the AC input power not the output power.

[@brandenflasch]

Tesla claimed they were 1MW cabinets and also not every site has 3 cabinets / 12 stalls.

[@sjkessel]

Why is there no canopy over any of these dispensers?

[@brandenflasch]

Cost and complexity of install

[@barryw9473]

Won’t 800 V+ architecture help? Ultimately current is the limit from an infrastructure perspective, right?

[@brandenflasch]

Nope - AC input current is the same whether it’s outputting 150kW (for example) to a Lucid at 200A / 750V or a Rivian at 350A at ~430V.

[@barryw9473]

@@brandenflasch So most stations are getting 480 V, three phase power? What amperage?

[@brandenflasch]

The vast majority are, yes. Amperage depends on the site power. To calculate, take nameplate kW*1000, divide by 1.73 (sq root of 3 for 3P power) and divide again by 480 (L-L voltage) and then multiple by 1.25 and round up to the nearest breaker size (typically in 50A or 100A increments, per NEC 625.42)

[@beboy462]

Bro Can I share my work with you

[@HeavenGuy]

Freewire has 160kwh worth of batteries. That is about $20k in value. How vulnerable are their chargers to battery theft?

[@brandenflasch]

Someone would have to be very bold to rip open the cabinet and start stealing batteries… not to mention the high safety risk when doing that improperly

[@HeavenGuy]

@@brandenflasch - Agreed, but we are talking $20k worth of batteries. A bank robber risks more for less. I think the risk of battery theft is freewire's main drawback. Look at the rising copper charging cable theft. Add in a ~$200k price tag and enough juice for only 4 40kwh charging sessions or 2 80kwh charging sessions, and then only 27kw for recharge, and it seems really impractical. If I was rich, freewire with whole house battery backup capability as well as 200kw charging speeds from a 240 hookup for my personal use would be a no brainer. A plaid and a 200kw freewire charger together would cost less than a slower Ferrari.

[@codytappen]

Considering the weight and hazard level of 160Kwh of lithium ion I think it would be very far down the list of things robbers are gonna go for. Not to mention the traceability and outdoor place where they sit

[@miltonaldridge4170]

What is the issue for the other big players vs Tesla? Is the design is too expensive? Lack of knowledge? Don't care?

[@brandenflasch]

Lack of good hardware on the market until now

[@uhjyuff2095]

Its all 3 phase, and no split phase bus. The transformer takes 480v and transforms it to 208/120v system 3 phase. And then the device in your case a "Ev charger" which is a 240/208 volt device which would only use 2 phases out of the 3 phase from the electrical service. So the service is 3 phase and the outlets or devices are single phase but its fed from a 3 phase electical panel. Commercial buildings don't have "split phase" like residential buildings do, but inside commercial buildings most devices are single phase devices except for the big devices like AC units and what not which are 3 phase devices. The beauty of 3 phase devices versus a single phase device is the ability of the device to draw power from all three phases which means the power output is up to 2.8 times greater than a same voltage device running on single phase or you like to call it "Split phase."

[@brandenflasch]

If you’re stepping a single phase of 480V to 240/120V it absolutely can be split phase

[@brandenflasch]

Also, 3P gives 1.73x power

[@uhjyuff2095]

@@brandenflasch I was just testing you! Great video and you have awesome knowledge about electrical systems by the way.

[@uhjyuff2095]

@@brandenflasch Yeah, if I was installing a level two charger on my property I would demand 240v over a 208v supply because hey my car has a 240v charger on board so lets use it at its highest rating for speed!

[@ketolifestyle68]

evgo sucks they have a monthly subscription... so ill charge at home thanks..

[@brandenflasch]

Should charge at home anyway

[@fitybux4664]

10:40 "You're charging in about 6 seconds." 😆 Compare that to something like EA. You're charging in 3 to 4 minutes maybe? 😆 After everything has billed you and decided it's safe to charge....... 🕥