Donkey Kong 64: The Mario Sunshine of Banjo-Kazooies - Donkey Kong Dissection

[@sumeracarnatia6997]

I knew you were colorblind, but not until you started hinting back towards it did I realize just how much further of a struggle this game would be for people like you. You have my sympathy.

[@gorade1901]

There's gotta be a mod of this game, at least on the emulation side, to make these bananas more visible shades for colorblind people. Doesn't help if he wants it on official hardware, but still, that's too unfortunate to not exist, hopefully anyway.

[@spartanq7781]

@@gorade1901 No a mod that just sections off areas for each Kong. I have no idea why they didn't do that. It's such a simple fix. If you must hit a switch as a certain Kong that area should be exclusive to that Kong.

[@qwertykins76]

I've never seen a KZbin title that was so bold, so brave.

[@jarerarebear1765]

I severely disagree with this notion that DK can only work in 2D. Yes, DK64 is a flawed tedious game, but that doesn't mean a great 3DK game is impossible, there are too many excellent 3D action/adventure/ platformer games to just throw in the towel on Donkey Kong.

[@Ironcorgi2]

I think had they not added so much stuff into the game it would have been better regarded. Cause i actually liked dk64 it just needed less stuff to be in the game so it wasn’t a completionist nightmare

[@mybumstudios1989]

I never played it until last year, and concluded it's primary failure was level design. Certain levels, the multiple Kongs' stuff and the tag barrels made for a great memorisation and navigation challenge. Then there's other levels like the factory which are disorienting and don't have enough barrels. Overall, I enjoyed myself. But yeah, not fantastic.

[@treezues9586]

Diddy kong racing is probably one of the best games ever made

[@train4292]

I don’t think the guy was implying that. He was just saying the general sentiments of the public at the time. People looked down on 2D platformers when 3D was new after all, and in the late 2000s retro games were back in the limelight.

[@gokunenn4243]

I don't even understand where you got said motion from. There isn’t a single moment in the entire video where they imply any of the game's problems come from it being 3D in nature. You literally made it up.

[@fabledredeyes]

Absolutely cursed title. Can't disagree with it.

[@Freezer94]

Surprised you never mentioned Crash Bandicoot. They were designed as a 3D DKC type game and the original DK64 Rare were developing had a similar style as Crash Bandicoot. But then they found they couldn't get it working properly and ust changed the style to be what we have now.

[@sunwukong5518]

Lance once said that the only Playstation console he ever had was the PS2. So he might have missed out on Crash Bandicoot

[@skibot9974]

@@sunwukong5518what consoles has he said he owns

[@sunwukong5518]

@@skibot9974 About every Nintendo console and PS2

[@sgillman16]

No, they were instructed to make the game like Mario 64 and a lot of the Banjo-Kazooie team were assigned to it. There's absolutely nothing hardware wise that would prevent a smaller inferior type of game...

[@Freezer94]

@@sgillman16 For the first 18 months or so it was designed as a linear game but they couldn't get it working. The DK64 team was less experienced with 3D action games. The extra help from other Rare teams, and the rebuilding of the game from scratch came in later. But it wasn't originally designed to be a Mario 64 or Banjo Kazooie type game.

[@TBoneTony]

I was also pissed off at Dixie Kong being replaced by Tiny Kong. After playing DKC2 at a friend's SNES while visiting him during one summer afternoon after school, to playing DKL2 on the GameBoy as that was the only Nintendo thing my parents got me during my pre-teen years, I really loved Dixie Kong as a character for being a girlfriend to Diddy Kong. She also had the hair spinning to float in the air.

[@Paderfan-xf1ij]

Tbf rare replaced every game at least one Kong so I dont mind it that much.

[@Nightshadow998]

Happy to hear that you will covering Returns for the next one of these.

[@sunwukong5518]

I consider Returns to be one of the weaker DKC games just above 3 but below 1, I wonder how Lange thinks about it

[@sylentknyte]

Just want to chime in and say I loved this video and I hope you keep making dissections of game series you love.

[@mathuasher9184]

I like these kinds of video essays about old games on other channels. So seeing one here hosted by MistareFusion is a must watch. And I just got home from D&D and Supper. So this'll be the perfect thing to unwind to.

[@ryanpyle9822]

Donkey Kong 64 is one of my favorite games of all time. I love it and see the game completely differently than you do. However I am color-blind too, and you are correct it makes the game more unfairly challenging. I've never heard someone point that out before and it should always be mentioned.

[@eeveepi]

I genuinely love this series. I’ve never played a single Donkey Kong game but I still love this series of videos

[@HybridAngelZero]

I was just rewatching the other DK Dissection episodes yesterday, wondering which game you were gonna do next. This was an absolute treat!

[@Dlf212]

As a fellow color-blind, I can feel the difficulty in trying to see the colors of the items. Wish Nintendo would make a new 3d DK game.

[@ricardocantoral7672]

I would like to see a Crash Bandicoot or Spyro style Donkey Kong game.

[@spyroG3]

The game director quote at the end of the video pretty much sums it up, DK64 had a lot of expectations riding on its shoulders to live up to: "More, bigger, more, more." Crash Bandicoot and I would say Rayman 2, are popular examples of linear 3D platformers that resemble a 2D sidescroller game. And I totally agree that DK64 is goofier than the SNES trilogy. I'd even say that outside of the characters of the DK IP, everything else could easily pass for a Banjo-Kazooie game. Great video.

[@ricardocantoral7672]

Yes, there's goofy aspects of DK64. On the other hand, there is darkness. Last time, K.Rool was largely a comedic villain. I think he is more menacing and more of a force to be wreckoned with. He doesn't just want Bananas this time, he wants the kongs wiped off the face of the earth. Hideout Helm is easily one of the best edge of your seat levels in 3D platforming. Yeah, the boxing stuff is comical but I argue that K.Rool is still the mad despot you see ealier. So, there is some darkness.

[@bluebaron6858]

Brilliant video. Great articulation!! The mario flag pole objectives was a spot on observation

[@Roggenschrotdosenbrot]

So glad you are doing this again. Let's fckn go

[@Alienldr]

I love this game. But I can recognize everything you talked about too.

[@spartanq7781]

Donkey Kong death by 64 cuts.

[@Midori_Hoshi]

Congrats on making this video. You did a good job.

[@ladyaceina]

part of the problem with this games tone is it has the tone of banjo and kazooie but does not have the witty dialogue those games have banjo is a game fully aware its a video game and the characters lampshade this they lamp shade the very genre they are helping to create

[@yeepsleep]

"they lamp shade the very genre they are helping to create" lol, this is reminiscent of Mistare Fusion's analysis of the Ginyu Force

[@PostMesmeric]

Wow, no mercy whatsoever. Still found this whole video to be super compelling all the way through. Awesome work. Your DK videos are fantastic. 👍

[@scatlinksean]

If I were to remake DK64: - Choose 2 Kongs to tag between anytime. Doesn't completely break the game's level segmentation & gating, but mitigates backtracking with level knowledge. - Coins should be shared, not individual. Rework DK Dirt to just give 25 coins since they won't be separated. Prices are higher to incentivise collecting them. - Any Kong can use DK's Invincibility Barrell and isn't locked to DK anymore, as Invincibility isn't Kong-Locked in other games. New DK Barrells will have a Strength Buff which causes DK to wind up a strong punch like Chunky's crouching-punch, giving more exploration options and is good balancing for the 2-Kong idea, requiring Crystal Coconuts to use. - Diddy's Simian Spring Pad ability is now part of his normal moveset for more exploration options. Diddy's Pad will still do the same, but without the wind-up. - Tiny's exclusive Banana Port Pad will now just be Banana Port 6. New Tiny Pads will now shrink nearby enemies instead of Tiny for easier combat as Tiny. - All Banana Ports function the same per area, but once all are activated they become inter-connected (like how teleporters work in Metroid Dread). - Bosses should have specific Kong requirements to justify locking to a single Kong. Only K.Rool's phases & the 2nd Dogodon battle in Fungi Forest does this. 1) Armydillo 1 (DK) - no change, as all you are guaranteed to have is DK. 2) Dogodon 1 (dK) - After a TNT Barrell hit, you have to Chimpy Charge him. 3) Mad Jack (TK) - no change; as it's intended that you use the Pony-Tail Twirl to make the jumps. 4) Pufftoss (LK) - The pylons once raised like normal, now need to be switched on to shock Pufftoss. A switch would be behind an old fence you can't fit through, but Lanky's arms can, like in K.Rools Lanky phase. This is also a good way to teach the player this mechanic as in the K.Rool phase you just have to somehow know. 5) Dogodon 2 (CK) - no change; as after a TNT Barrell hit, you require Chunky's Hunky Chunky Barrell to punch him. 6) Armydillo 2 (DK) - when Armydillo shoots a Bullet Bill-looking Missile, use the New Strength Buff DK Barrell ability to smack it back to deal damage. 7) King Kut Out (Any) - no change; other than entry not being Kong-Locked to Lanky. Why; because it's a goofy boss? - Blueprints should still be Kong-Locked, but any Kong can give all Blueprints. Mainly since some Kasplat locations can be challenging with different Kongs. - Gun ammo shouldn't be shared as they're different to each Kong, so it doesn't make sense how Coconuts become Peanuts. Other ammo can be shared like before. - Swap from Homing ammo as to not be stuck using it until you run out. - No ammo range limit & draw distance fade-out due to better hardware. Rings and DK Stars you have to fly through are no longer 2D for the same reasons. - Beaver Bother deleted and replaced with more Maze-themed Bonus Barrell minigames. - Animal Buddies not locked to Donkey Kong for Rambi & Lanky Kong for Engarde. The Animal Buddy can collect items of whoever transformed.

[@MrTim-sh6ru]

It’s good ol Mr. Tim from Twitter! As a massive DK64 fan, I personally love your review of this, yes I agree the game has unbelievable faults & can get grating….. (I hate that Jack In The Box boss!!!) but I love it…. I’m glad you didn’t go through the same route as every other review on here saying “it’s too much stuff! Too long!” You gave it your honest opinion & pointed out its faults as well as its great portions…. I think nostalgia is what keeps me hooked on this game, I had the chicken pocks, when this game came out, (I was 8) and stuck home, my parents got it for me as a get well gift, & I honestly loved it since then…. I was also marathoning the cartoon too 😂. I’m rambling, bottom line….. love the game, love your review, excellent work on this…. It was definitely more than OK! 😂

[@JanitorsAssistant]

3:17 ah yes, the Nintendo Sixty-Drawer.

[@xdecatron2985]

Thanks for reminding me of the existence of Beaver Bother and the beetle race. Over the years people complained about the collectibles and the number of characters, which I never minded that much, but I forgot why I personally never went back to play through this game a second time. Also, as a kid you don’t think the controls are wonky, you think you need to figure them out. But there was a looseness to them, and the camera! Yeah, these are the things that made DK64 exhausting, despite its charm and frequent fun moments

[@willowbarrelmaker8269]

Incredible that I feel like I’ve learned more about super Mario 64s design philosophy in this video about DK 64 than I have in any video actually about SMB64

[@ChaddyFantome]

I dont like collectathons, including Mario 64. The exception is the Spyro games because if the way levels are designed more as linear obstacle courses that go in a loop and don't take too long with side loops. Dunno. I enjoyed DK64 for the multiplayer mostly tbh. :p

[@kumajin3621]

The DK rap is still the best thing about DK 64, and i liked DK 64

[@Kolbatsu]

I never got past the Donkey Kong Arcade section.

[@spartanq7781]

God I hated that so much. My brother always beat it.

[@MistareFusion]

Didn't have time to mention it in the video, but as a kid, the arcade games were my favorite parts. But I had grown up playing DK Classics. To players who had no experience, I find it pretty cheap to insist you beat it on one life. I don't get why they did that. That could have been really fun, but even I struggle to get past that challenge.

[@kumajin3621]

This was the only reason I couldn't beat Dk64 back in the day, made worst when DK moves slow when you try to re-enter the arcade. 15+ years later I randomly played it one day to retro show off the n64/DK, to my great surprise I eventually beat the arcade DK. Now I just gotta collect......more stuff...

[@ricardocantoral7672]

I beat it but I am still traumatized by it to this day.

[@MR.__G]

That’s where the game ended for me as a kid. I couldn’t get the Nintendo coin to save my life. I spent so many Saturday mornings determined to get that coin but couldn’t lol

[@ryandeschamps7]

That damn beetle can go to hell. Especially on the Crystal Caves race. That laugh also haunted me.

[@DigimontamerB]

... Wait people have trouble with the Crystal Caves race? I legit *only* ever struggled with the Angry Aztec race.

[@the9thinning1]

So well written, as usual :)

[@rizu-kun9687]

I agree with you on all the music except Hideout Helm. It does a magnificent job of building up the tension of trying to disable the blast-o-matic in time, and the chords in the last few measures before the piece loops give me legitimate chills every time. That is one composition I will go out of my way to listen to. Honestly, one of the things that's helped me enjoy this game more is the randomizer. Besides the quality of life improvements like being able to tag anywhere and putting the Kongs' faces on their balloons, it's interesting to see a collectathon like DK64 reimagined in terms of how the different power-ups and abilities can fit together to solve the puzzle of getting to the K. Rool fight. And people have rendered a lot of other video game tracks using the DK64 soundfont to provide a great deal of custom music for the game. If randomizers are your thing, I recommend checking it out. It certainly gave me a new perspective. Fantastic work as always, and I can't wait for the DKC Returns video!

[@StarHaven64]

I do actually listen to crystal caves every so often. That song did the best job with expressing emotions in a beautiful way!

[@sumeracarnatia6997]

The more I rewatch this review, the more I realize that this game feels like a Banjo-Kazooie spin-off than it does as a DKC follow-up.

[@TBoneTony]

True, the biggest negative for DK64, it's the collecting being the requirement, NOT the distraction compared to the earlier DKC games that all you did was just clear the level but if you want the harder levels then you need to collect the DK Coins and Krem Coins in DKC2.

[@cuac232]

When I was little, I didn't understand english at all so my brain filled in the blanks in the story and some parts and characters were genuinely creepy to me. Looking back, it is true that the game is 99% goofy, though. Great criticism! I still love DK64, but I think everything you pointed out is fair and fun to explore.

[@sumeracarnatia6997]

Now that I know you’re gonna cover the revival country games, I’m immensely excited for Tropical Freeze. It’s the only DKC game I’ve played through, and it was easily one of my favorite experiences. ^^

[@Josh-ql1zi]

The ability to swap characters at any time with the push of a button could have saved this game. Plus why would you wait in a tag barrel if you're rushing to save your island from being destroyed?

[@----x-----]

Seriously, if they ever made a remake (They won't, but let's pretend they could) that would be a really really good change that could almost fix the game for a lot of people

[@Josh-ql1zi]

@@----x----- Maybe they will remake it one day even if the remake would have to be made by a different studio. I think enough people like DK64 overall and people will buy the remake anyway solely because it's a DK game.

[@KremBotop]

To absolutely no disrespect towards Kirphope, since his scores are good in their own right (including the rap), but I think his overall work on DK64 creates a very noticeable tonal whiplash compared to the SNES trilogy, even more than the increased slapstick and burp SFX. With that and the overwhelming amount of collectibles, the game feels less like a 3D conversion of those earlier games and more of a Banjo Kazooie spinoff with a DKC skin. Though I often wonder how the game might've felt like if Wise stayed for the score. Could the game have toned down the comedic vibe or he could've adapted to the finished game's tone. Regardless, I'd love for someone to make a mod that adds Wise's score to DK64, preferably the restored tracks made by Jammin' Sam Miller (SNES trilogy) and Drawn&Quartered (DKC3 GBA). I think the DKC3 GBA tunes should take priority in that hypothetical mod since they're the least known and have a more whimsical vibe compared to the first 2 Country OSTs, making them more fitting for the game's tone. Though listening to the OG jungle and minecart themes in 64 for example should still be an interesting idea. And speaking of mods, someone recently put out one where you can freely switch Kongs at any time in regular gameplay, severely cutting down the backtracking. If anyone's willing to complete this game with much less frustration, this might be the way to go. Anyway, great job with the DK retrospectives. The Country games were such childhood staples and probably my favorite games growing up, so those videos were an excellent watch. And I'm glad you'll also cover the Retro Studios games later. My younger brother played them at a similar age range as me playing the Rare SNES trilogy and we had a lot of fun in their multiplayer co-op mode so I did get familiar with them over time.

[@Clodd1]

''Banjo Kazooie spinoff with a DKC skin.'' This perfectly describes DK64.

[@skibot9974]

Great video as always Mistrate. Any video games you have interst interest in analyzing outside of DKC? I feel a Banjo-Kazooie video would be interesting given that game is probably the closest thing to the exact middle ground between Mario 64 and DK64’s design philosophies (besides a few SpongeBob games on the GameCube) Plus a lot of people consider Banjo a Donkey Kong spin off since the character debuted in Diddy Kong Racing

[@sunwukong5518]

Is the video about Majora's Mask's saving system still happening? I only played the 3DS version so I am very interested in your arguments for the old saving system.

[@MistareFusion]

I definitely want to. I'll just need to carve out some time. Don't know when. Probably not this year, honestly.

[@sunwukong5518]

@@MistareFusion Take your time. The quality of your analysis makes up for the wait

[@TBoneTony]

I think Cranky was meant to be DK's father all along, it just wasn't thought out during DKC in the manual and game text. Because DK being the original DK Junior and Cranky being the original DK, that can explain the platform roots of modern day DK and why Diddy looked up to him in the first game.

[@smashers6971]

It’s actually more of Cranky being the grandfather, Cranky’s creator confirms that was always the case and that in DK64 he’s just going senile.

[@mariokid-yx4kt]

can't wait for this series to *RETURN* teehee

[@smashers6971]

Honestly I wouldn’t say that the story is a total reboot, it feels like a natural climax of the original trilogy (and the land trilogy)’s stories, K. Rool is done playing games, no more personas, no more gimmicks he wants the Kong’s dead at this point. Heck the only reason he kidnaps the other Kongs and steals the banana hoard is to distract DK to ensure that the weapon can be repaired so DK isle can be destroyed. Also the DK being Cranky’s son thing was a failed attempt at retconning the modern Donkey Kong’s backstory as the question of what happened to Jr. just sort of never came up when developing the DKC trilogy, but the current story is that Cranky is the Grandfather and in DK64 he’s going senile.

[@kayaplaaya9875]

I gotta disagree on the bit about 64 not being a collectathon. Its just a differently structured one. DK64 and SM64 are opposite ends of the same idea

[@MistareFusion]

I only slightly disagree with you on that. In fact, what I'm about to say is something I considered putting in the script but ended up cutting out for fear I was edging too closely into a Super Mario 64 Dissection videos. I think that it's Donkey Kong 64 and Super Mario Galaxy representing the two polar extremes of lessons you can take away from Super Mario 64. Likewise, if you just want to use Rare games, we're talking Donkey Kong 64 and Goldeneye. All of those games use Mario 64 as a launch pad. The lesson that Galaxy and Goldeneye took from 64 is to pack a level with lots of varied missions. The lesson that DK64 took from it is to pack a level with lots of things to collect. Both are logical extrapolations from what Mario 64 offers. One mimics the form. The other mimics the substance.

[@ComradeChyrk]

I remember absolutely loving this game as a young kid, although i never got more than maybe 10% through the game. I remember having alot of fun with the multiplayer

[@Cooltigerkook]

One of my favorite game

[@SilBee64BH]

Just starting the vid. DK64 is a game that has such a warm and fuzzy feeling in my mind from playing rentals as a kid and comforting nostalgia of how games of that era felt to me, despite barely scratching the surface of actually beating it. Everyone whose opinion I follow seems to feel it's a huge bloated disappointment, if not outright bad, so it kinda gives me whiplash as a result! Looking forward to your takes and seeing what makes it tick for you. The Kong Battle multiplayer mode is legit though. Ultimate dummy fun.

[@MistareFusion]

Well, I'm very interested to know what your reaction to the video is once you've finished watching it!

[@SilBee64BH]

​@@MistareFusion The way you broke down just what kind of work it entails to play the whole game was super informative, when it's all laid out like that it made me realize that the whole "game" is basically following a complicated flowchart to the end, so that's...not fun. Special mention to the game being extremely not colorblind-friendly, as that sounds legitimately maddening. This also convinced me that if I do get around to fully playing it, I'll be using the "Tag Anywhere" rom hack, lol. Only thing I disagreed with was getting distracted by how most songs have a reminder that you're playing a silly funny ape game, I don't think I'd get distracted by it myself and consider that feeling to be a strong part of this particular game's character. Great deep dive as usual with a lot of relatable personal stories this time around! Super looking forward to the next video in the series, however long it'll be! And, uh...I'm expecting a few Super Mario Odyssey opinions in the comments of this one 😅

[@sumeracarnatia6997]

Tiny and Chunky replacing their siblings and your idea of reducing the roster to three gave me the idea of making the three Kongs introduced be the only playable ones that could allow for a more proper tie-in to DKC3. Let’s say that their adventure together made Dixie more open to spend time with Kiddy, which gives us a justification for their respective siblings Tiny and Chunky to meet. Just like Diddy to Donkey, they admire their siblings’ heroics, but while Tiny eagerly wants to get a chance too, Chunky is too scared to think he has it in him. Meanwhile, K. Rool is just so sick of these Kongs that he’s had enough and is just gonna blow up the entire island of them. And so he kidnaps all four Kongs he faced in the trilogy, this time much more discreetly so none of those left alone suspects what he’s doing, with the help of Manky Kongs who are completely fine with the primates who casted them out to be blown to bits. Except for one, Lanky Kong. He always disagreed with the typical lifestyle of his kind, but stuck around because no one of the Kongs wanted anything to do with him. But now with this great danger ahead, he decides he’s gonna be a cog in the wheel and ruin the croc’s plot by telling the heroes what’s happening. And who else but the young Tiny and passive Chunky is it he meets and gets believed by? And so a brand new trio of Kongs work together to figure out a way to stop K. Rool’s weapon and save the island’s 4 greatest heroes.

[@thisischris05]

The only way I've been able to tolerate DK 64 was through streaming it to a friend through a Discord call. I've never been able to enjoy it any other way. You were right to say it's addicting, since at a certain point I couldn't put the game down and even completed large chunks of it by myself. Collecting golden bananas was all I could care about Also, something that always bothered me about this game's tone was the shift from Hideout Helm to the final boss. The aftermath of Hideout Helm is a dramatic moment where finally K. Rool is vulnerable and can be taken down. After finding his crashed airship, you're sent to...A boxing ring? As great as the ending to the game is, that jump in setting has always taken me out of the game's world

[@supertombrother1988]

I'm a big fan of this game, but I cannot forgive the emulation quality of the Wii U virtual console. Even Ocarina of Time feels worse on Wii U.

[@vigo2669]

Oof playing this game being color blind must've been rough.

[@arktype586]

Excellent review

[@vigo2669]

I've tried getting into DK64 for the past 25 years and I can't get past the first big banana.

[@bowlympicshero]

This title is so damned accurate. Still my favorite Banjo Kazooie.

[@skibot9974]

38:05 YOU CAN HOOKSHOT TO GANONDORF?! In the 13 years I’ve played that game (started with 3DS remake) I never knew that!

[@reversalmushroom]

Will you review Diddy Kong Racing?

[@alphamarigi]

Star Fox 64 is so good. I know it's unrelated and you were just using it as B roll but I gotta say it.

[@MistareFusion]

It's always worth saying.

[@lkjkhfggd]

I remember kid me got stuck at the gloomy galleon boss. But eventually I beat it and finished the game. I loved that game as a kid. I remember singing the dk rap at school.

[@DidgeridudeEX]

As a kid, I loved DK64, was one of my first N64 games I owned. I suppose playing DK Country 2 was enough to make me enjoy it back then- all the lore in the manual, seeing some of my favorite characters come to life in 3D. All the cool Kong characters made it feel plentiful rather than obnoxious. I suppose as a kid, the "waste of time" collecting was a non-issue. After all, I was the same kid who traded Pokemon with myself. So time..was more available back then.

[@shadowgames64]

I understand the issues many people have with this game. I love this game. It's my favorite DK game, and i actually think the Ost for this game is 10/10

[@supertombrother1988]

I think egoraptor summed this game up best. (He was talking about the Zelda series, but i digress) The great thing about winning a star in Mario 64 was that you did it, not that you found a thing. The donkey Kong 64 developers cared more about what treasures were found than the way you found them.

[@Tirgo69]

That OoT video was really bad lmao.

[@supertombrother1988]

@@Tirgo69 I actually agreed with everything he said in it. I've always hated oot and couldn't articulate why for many years. He summed up tons of problems.

[@MistareFusion]

I love OoT, and I still really enjoyed the perspective he shared.

[@JefferyMewtamer]

I've never played DK64, but considering my biggest complaint about Super Mario 64 was always the way you get spit back to the castle after every star when most of the main levels let you collect stars in almost any order and only a few required specific level configurations, so you could hypothetically collect multiple stars in one go if the game let you, and Banjo-Kazooie fixed that, each level of Dk64 having a full level worth of collectables specific to each character sounds like a major step backwards. Makes me wonder if anyone has ever made a hack of Dk64 that removes the color coding and lets any Kong collect any item they are physically capable of reaching and activate any switch they have the right style of move to activate. 25 major objectives per level, 500 minor collectibles that isn't just a pseudo high score mechanic*, and all the other stuff still sounds like overkill, and it sounds like the game has major issues aside, but it sounds like the biggest problem is the game forces you to comb every inch of every level with every character without actually making all that retreading of the same ground worthwhile. *Some Sonic the Hedgehog levels have 500+ rings, but even when collecting rings is an objective required for completing the game, it's like super Mario 64, where you just have to collect x rings from a level with way more than x rings instead of having to track down every last ring, and even when collecting every ring in a level is possible, it's usually just a bonus to your score at the end of the level or nets you an automatic A-rank that's probably easier to get just from going for a high score. People do sometimes compete for most rings collected in a single playthrough of a level or fastest time to collect them all for levels where collecting them all is known to be possible, but that's a category adjacent to speedrunning and high scoring.

[@theotakuguy8957]

Closest romhack to removing the color coding is tag anywhere, I believe that's what it's called, which lets you switch characters on the fly It was what pushed me to finish the game since every time I tried I just ended up getting bored playing vanilla Also since you mentioned Mario 64 I would recommend giving it another go with the fan pc port 64plus since it comes with a lot of nice features like widescreen, 60fps and most importantly making the game be like odyssey for the most part where you can choose whenever or not to boot out of a level and keep going Pretty handy for stuff like tic tock clock since it won't feel like you're only making 5 more feet of progress each time you want to collect a star Keep in mind it's a bit flawed though since 64 isn't built for that so you'll be forced to quit and rejoin the level for specific stars unless one of the newer updates fixed that

[@Mari_Izu]

Mario 64 spits you out of the stage after completing each star because each star is treated as a "level", and some times selecting said star will make small changes in the world to make the star collectable.

[@MistareFusion]

This was something I considered addressing in the video but ultimately cut out for fear of this turning into a Super Mario 64 Dissection. But, yes, I agree with Mari_Izu. I do like the level boot out system of Super Mario 64 and for that very reason. It does make each star feel more like a level. It is one of the things that helps center the gameplay over the collecting. I don't think it's perfect, and I can understand why people find it tedious, especially in the more linear levels. Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy do a far better job of justifying the level boot out, of really making each iteration feel like something new. Mario 64's sometimes feels like booting out for the sake of booting out.

[@skibot9974]

34:05 Funny they say that considering how in Super Mario 3D World to technically achive true 100% you must ensure every character touches the flagpole at the end. Given there’s 5 characters that means you have to play every level at least twice (You can play all the levels without doing this but you’ll be unable to complete the stamp collection)

[@michaelmerchant9870]

I always found it interesting there was this common consensus that this game was bad. I will preface to say I didn't play the Donkey Kong Country series growing up. My parent got me a 64 with Donkey Kong bundled in. And I had a lot of fun. I had no idea Donkey Kong had such backstory and lore(I know, I know). Colorful interesting but distinct characters. Far amount of context as to why you need to "collect" (K lumpesy cage, the banana fairies, blueprints, etc). This evil King K Rool, who wanted the destruction of a whole DK island, which was also awesome, his giant island destroying boat, the idea he already captured all the Kong to preeminently ensure his plan to work. Even just seeing the cutscences was a powerful motivator to get me through all the admittedly tedious collecting. Seeing the Kongs best Rools plans. Showing the bosses coming back to Rool with their tails between their legs after being so intimidating during the boss fight. Even the build up to getting to bosses was great. Scary even. Feeding the bananas to open it gave a good idea of progression. The buildup of the game waiting to show you who has to fight the boss this time. Even the fight itself was pretty much masterfully done in terms of presentation. Extra points goes to Tiny's boss fight intro, and Chunky and Diddy's, but in my opinion 95% were good. And the animals (The Rhino and the swordfish I think) although few, were fun to mess around with. I would literally just turn into them just to mess around sometimes. And the worlds looked interesting, and made me want to explore. Although I admit this is cheap, the fact it can take so long to unlock a world makes it feel extra rewarding when you do. And getting to the throne room, seeing the laser canon from the cutscenes just felt so surreal... So all that said, I can understand why some didn't like the "Collectothon" aspect (I certainly didn't think that aspect by itself was fun). And if many didn't like the discarded story aspects from previous game. It was my first DK game, so I had no idea about the soft reboot status. I just assumed these Kongs were in previous games as they were in 64, pulled from various games to be put in this one massive one. (I know people apparently don't like Funky as this gun expert he is 64, but I love it, was very confused from his Melee trophy though) One major complaint I have is those dang Rare and Nintendo coins. As a child, I had no idea how to get them. So I put the game down for long periods of time until I finally stumbled upon them years later. Like dude, at least give me a hit, maybe something in the throne room that tells you they are ancient or something to at least hint at it. Seriously those minigames come off as minigames, and not something you are supposed to do for story reasons. The game does not adequately communicate it is crucial you beat them to complete the dang story.

[@incrediblecaptain]

I just beat DK64 for the first time a fee days ago! I agree with everything you say… but I still love the hell out of this game.

[@skibot9974]

18:40 interstingly based on what I’ve read and heard DK64 started development as coming more akin to a Crash Bandicoot clone to keep the breakneck pace up. However, for whatever reason it wasn’t working, so they had to pivot to being a Banjo clone halfway through development which is probably why the game has so many hallways t he t had to salvage anything they could (Delay wasn’t an option as Nintendo didn’t have any other N64 games for Holiday ‘99) Also if Did You Know Gaming’s recent N64 video is to be trusted one of Rare’s developers DYKG contacted is willing to show early builds when his NDA expires at the end of the year

[@dekufiremage7808]

I'd argue Rare did the collectathon genre perfect on its first attempt and lost the plot afterwards. In Kazooie you only need to fully explore a level once, sometimes with side areas for an animal transformation. There also aren't an absurd number of collectibes. Ten jiggies per level which are roughly equivalent to stars, notes that you aren't actually expected to collect 100% of(only about 80-90%), and mumbo tokens that you don't need to collect anywhere near all of even if you are going for 100% completion. The biggest hangup with the original version is that you need to collect the notes without dying, making them like a much more challenging version of mario 64's coin missions without too much wiggle room for missing notes compared to missing coins. This is changed for all other releases of the game, though.

[@MR.__G]

I agree BK perfected it. Only once did you ever couldn’t 100% a level, so that wasn’t much of an issue. The point of a collecthathon is to find everything in the level and move in to the next. That’s what made Tooie different. You can’t even 100% the 1st level and you wouldn’t even know as the 1st time playing. Not saying Tooie is bad but Kazooie perfected it perfectly

[@RonaKurona]

I think a collect-a-thon should always be judged by its completionist criteria. The main point of these games is to collect things, so even if you can beat the final boss without collecting everything l, is that really a good thing to rely on? It's basically admitting that the rest of the collectibles are bad but they're still part of the game Banjo-Kazooie fortunately practically forces you to 100% it

[@MR.__G]

@@RonaKurona BK flows so well. You can enter every level and leave with everything besides freezeezy peak. So that wasn’t too much of an inconvenience. They mixed platforming and collecting so perfect in that game

[@FionaEevee87]

There's a randomizer of this game, too. Imagine potentially having to clear Beaver Bother to get a key or unlock a Kong. You can also shuffle all the loading zones, turning the whole game into one confusing maze! :p At least they're merciful enough to make use of the "Tag Anywhere" mod, so you can switch Kongs on the fly.

[@pages4573]

Honestly, DK 64 kind of reminds me of a less streamlined version of Spyro, at least Spyro 2 and 3. While Spyro 2 and 3 pivoted away from the more platforming focus of the genre, exploring was simple, easy and you never really spend more than 20-30 min in each world/ level. Like a sightseeing tour of some sort. You go in, do something memorable and get out. The games even give you a gem collector to prevent you from having to search for the last tiny gem.

[@organicketchup5171]

"It's not about flagpoles...or whatever. It's about lighting, composition, drama. About getting to work with one of the greatest editors of our time....J Jonah Jameson."

[@Rationalific]

Excellent review! Ironically, in the SNES days, Donkey Kong Country was seen as "next-gen", yet in the actual next generation, the industry turned their back on that type of game. I had an N64, and loved Mario 64, and I also loved Donkey Kong Country...but I never played this. However, with what you explained, I really concur. The point of a game should be the gameplay, not the collecting.

[@zedorian6547]

I personally like Tiny Kong and Chunky Kong better than Dixie and Kiddie so them getting replaced is fine, though it would have been cool if it there was a cheat or something to swap them out for Dixie and Kiddie or at least have them in multiplayer

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Agreed

[@geybackgeybackson2838]

Playing DK64 is like eating a delicious pizza with many wonderful toppings. You order it, but the place doesn't deliver so you have to go there to pick it up. At the parlor they give you your pizza and also a complementary hat of a specific color. You carry the pizza home, but once you're there you realize you can only eat the pepperoni, the rest of the pizza is intangible. So you call the place to complain; they tell you to come back to the parlor. There, they swap your hat for one of a different color. Now you can eat the mozzarella, but not the pepperoni. It turns out each topping requires a different colored hat to eat, so you have to keep swapping hats. The restaurant will only let you have one hat at a time and you have to walk back to them every time you want to swap. You can't take the pizza with you to shorten the way either, it is now permanently fused to your living room table. Also, some of the toppings are trapped underneath other toppings, so you can't just do one topping at a time. Gotta keep swapping to get everything. Now you can enjoy the convoluted process of disassembling your puzzle pizza piece by piece, with long chores in-between, just like pizza was meant to be eaten. Good luck finishing it before it starts to smell. Also, when you pay up, make sure to use coins from the dusty old arcade machine in the back of the restaurant. Otherwise it won't count and you'll be arrested for dining and dashing. I love collectathons; absolutely adore Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, and the three original Spyros. This game's design is confused. Your analysis is absolutely bang on the money in every regard.

[@CapnJigglypuff]

So that means it's the BEST of Banjo-Kazooies, right?

[@robertwyatt3912]

I think that DK64 fails because it doesn’t have schmovement

[@ianury5614]

Wow, as someone who never owned an N64 and only played some of the games when they came out later you articulated the games pros and cons in a really interesting way. Judging from my PS1 owning kid perspective the way your describing it makes it sounds like Spyro 3: Year of the Dragon if they made a whole lot more wrong choices. Like instead of walling off minigames or parts of the level with specific characters they just required you to backtrack and didn't tell you which character you needed for which ability. Or instead of just the eggs there was sixteen different types of collectables with different requirements. This doesn't sound much fun. Hope the next DK game is a lot more fun for you!

[@sgillman16]

Not even once as a kid did I have any kind of difficulty beating this game or dislike it. And you need less than half the collectables to beat the game

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

Lance became an AVGN.

[@TehJellyLord]

I know it’s not a great idea to compare a modern day game to something from the 90’s like this, but honestly I think Sonic Frontiers (as jank and as much flawed game design as it has) provides both a fun platforming experience with Sonic’s great controls and snappy abilities AND a good collecting experience so both camps can get something out of that game. It can be pretty mindless, but it’s the kinda game that lets you have fun in your own way and I can appreciate that.

[@rjd-kh8et]

56:28 Admittedly, the layout of Zelda dungeons rarely makes sense from a worldbuilding perspective. I'd like to see you look at Diddy Kong Racing before Donkey Kong Country Returns.

[@seisveintiocho-x9e]

I think that the Mad Jack boss is really great. I thought it was a very scary boss back when I was a kid. I know the boss is easy, but maybe that was for the best considering how scary he is.

[@mushrambokinniku4900]

Im also colorblind, but I got to say, DK64 is still my favorite game ever. Maybe is nostalgia but I have played it several times as an adult and loved every second of it.

[@matthewvandyk7773]

I 101% this game as a kid. I loved it so much! However, DK 64 was the first 3D video game I ever played, so maybe that affects how I feel.

[@DonWeaselYeehawEdition]

Happy to add your DK64 video to the Holy Trinity of DK64 vids: Dunkey, SomeCallMeJohnny and now you! I've really enjoyed your style of analysis being applied to these games. I can't wait to see it continue! Do you think you'll cover Jungle Beat as part of the series?

[@MistareFusion]

Thank you! I don't have any plans to cover Jungle Beat at the moment. Then again, I've never actually played it. Someone want to start a GameCube Bongos fund for me?

[@DonWeaselYeehawEdition]

@MistareFusion You're very welcome! Sadly I don't have the bongos or the game 🤣 but I'm fairly certain you can play it with a standard controller. I really want to play it tho, it looks very different and unique from the DKC series. And if I'm not wrong it was developed by the section of Nintendo that made Super Mario Galaxy!

[@ZuzNewsReviews]

It's definitely the most subtle of the bunch but I interpret K. Rool to still have a new persona. After a pirate and mad scientist, he became a boxer. It'd be nice if he comes back with a new split personality like a feudal lord or something, but I think they'll forget about that if he returns.

[@tev7550]

I could feel your script getting angrier at the game the more you played it. This games too powerful in nostalgia for me to hate it

[@MACandCHEEZWIZ1]

Wait, I thought the title was "The Super Mario Sunshine of Banjo-Kazooies", not "More is Less"

[@MistareFusion]

Check the thumbnail. There are two titles! Collect them all!

[@DonWeaselYeehawEdition]

43:37 The Nintendo 64 is one of the few consoles where I feel you NEED the original controller to fully enjoy the game (or enjoy it at all in this case). Despite having multiple emulators and a Nintendo Switch Online Account, I haven't beaten this game or many other N64 titles because trying to play N64 games on a modern dual-stick setup is dreadful to me.

[@----x-----]

DK64 is one of the few N64 classics I never owned and never played through and I always wondered what I missed but over the years the talks around it made my impression of it go from "wow that game looks huge, so cool" to "that game looks awful". A lot about it sounds cool but some very bad choices like all the character-gated content really seem to ruin the rest of the experience. Honestly a lot about it reminds me of Mario Odyssey, huge maps with many small segments with short missions. But the difference is that Odyssey has good movement, collectibles are kept low and it only features Mario. Another game DK64 reminds me a lot of is Conker's Bad Fur day, both have big worlds with many minigames but where Conker is quick and streamlined with 0 backtracking and just delivers non stop new gameplay experiences keeping the momentum going DK64 is full of chores. Honestly I think it is still a shame that DK never went back to 3D, I like when games can do both. Look at Mario or Kirby or Zelda, all of them have 3D games and 2D games at the same time now. Even a DK64 remake with on the fly character swapping and the removal of colored bananas sounds like it could be a very good improvement.

[@mups4016]

I started malding and got filtered by the title. I'm sure you don't meant to be so inflammatory, but I just can't.

[@theheroesofcrash311]

I feel like Rare has had trouble learning their lesson on trying to do too much in 3D games. Just look at all the games Rare made after Banjo-Kazooie. Banjo-Tooie's interconnected worlds were more frustrating than novel. Nuts and Bolts' worlds became so big they necessitated those vehicles. Opening Yooka-Laylee's worlds a piece at a time was baffling. Rare just seems to have more consistency making good 2D games than 3D ones.

[@kazaloolovesgames]

Thank you for being one of the few reviewers to finally mention something that I hate about DK64. The endless dark hallways and caves issue. If your levels are so large that you have to fill it up with boring dark hallways and caves then you should make your level smaller! Heck, Spyro the Dragon has this issue as well but they make the cave areas more interesting. In general the first 3 Spyro games just have better level design than DK64. For one thing they don't have pointlessly long sprawling levels.

[@BobbyMoore2-mp8wb]

Donkey Kong is awesome 😎

[@SourTb]

Weird to have a video on sunday, huh

[@BBWahoo]

Cute pfp

[@organicketchup5171]

There's a lot to love about this game and it was a perfect thing to rediscover with my housemates during COVID lockdowns, but there is something a bit shit about it. It has cool moments and an interesting atmosphere, but a bit tedious and not always fun.

[@marcus7984]

I LOVE the DK games

[@geodaet83]

My thoughts about this game back when it came out: -if it came out before banjo kazooie, I would have appreciated it much more, it feels too similar idea-wise but they did a better job with Banjo meshing the ideas together -it would be a cool concept to force the player to use all characters but then he should be able to switch the character on the fly (like other games did, e.g. Goemon 64) -the Overworld is way too small, Banjos Overworld was much more fun to explore -needs more animal buddies... Though after DKC3 this issue stayed with every title for some reason

[@rossman8919]

I believe the expansion pak prevents a crash that the developers couldn't find the source of the problem

[@nerlam1]

That has been proven false through developers. One of those internet/early gaming rumors that spread out of hand. The expansion pack was to help the game run smoother and load everything it needed to. Even as is with the expansion pak, the game has excessive slowdown at certain points, to the point where developers decided speeding up the actual game speed was the only way to make the lag playable. Speedrunners use it to clip out of bounds, causing a lot of lag to get crazy speed. Imagine the game and amount of lag without the expansion pak helping. So yeah, the expansion pak was needed for the game to have enough power to run what developers wanted, but not because a of game-breaking glitch without one

[@ThePoopyDoopy]

I remember liking this game. Then I really thought about my experience with the N64. I now realize I did not enjoy any game on that system and was coping because I had nothing better.