What is an M/E? Why Would I Want 2? (or 3 or 4?)

[@SAMusic2448]

I remember having to learn MEs in college and they can get quite complex especially when you are dealing with 3 MEs and up. And for those that are curious other examples of using MEs is really when you watch sports. I am an NASCAR fan and every race they typically will use a very complex ME setup when they are showing all the multiple in car cameras. And you may ask why not use a super source and the answer is most high end switchers don't have a feature like that and so it is built upon MEs. When I was in college we also used the ME to setup the weather reporter shot on the green screen. So their are plenty of reasons to need it and use it. The way to think about it is when you need more then just a DSK and USK for a shot.

[@CNC-Time-Lapse]

Thank you for this! I appreciated the practical application you mentioned. Very helpful!

[@camdenmounts1473]

THANK YOU!! There are zero detailed answers on the internet as to WHY multiple MEs are useful. Been wondering for months…

[@camdenmounts1473]

Gee you’re right! Great comment!

[@Zonuna_Chawngthu]

same here ....

[@DocMicrowave]

I have used the Aux outs on my 1 m/e as a poor-mans 2nd m/e. Just for switching. I would connect an Aux out to sent to iMag. Another way I use it at my church, the iMag out comes off the program out. The recording and live stream come off the Aux outs and they are set for clean feed. This way I can use DSKs to bring in presentations and graphics onto iMag without outputting to Recording or livestream. DSK clip setting is set to minimum causing the graphic or presentation to be a full overlay without keying.

[@BradyLippert]

Blackmagic tally only works with me1. However, if you feed me2 into me1 (like you demonstrated) and then do your switching, it does work.

[@johnsmith-ti9yz]

The changing of the window feed is SO cool!!

[@CarlAustinGregory]

ME within and ME- Seems like the essential concept for this is in many’s sort of workflows: Photoshop - smart object; Premiere Pro - nested clip; DaVinci Resolve - compound clip/fusion clip.

[@kiopi94]

Awesome I just got a 4m/e from black magic and still learning the ins and outs

[@CNC-Time-Lapse]

These videos are pure gold. Thank you!

[@juri14111996]

i use multiple ME for diverent outpus, like one fore main cut with primary overlays, one for in house (including overlays for local audience only one for livestream, cut to prericordet slides after the main poar of an event, so information like where the get lunch is only shown to the local audience

[@moritzkonigproductions-str8015]

Thank you for this very clarifying video!!!

[@zmirc]

Thanks a lot, very interesting stuff. Many thanks!!!

[@wasbeen]

Thanks Doug, I knew the concept, but never seen it demonstrated, or explained the many ways you can use it. I assume you could use two 1ME control panels in “series”? I would make use of the IMAG plus extra shots for streaming (crowd close ups etc) if only I had a few more thousand dollars.

[@djp_video]

You could use multiple panels, as long as at least one of them has support for controlling the 2nd M/E.

[@cahir85]

Thanks for that :) I have few questions: (1) there is no DSK on second M/E right? (2) does this switcher is capable to play viedo? I saw a CLIP on media tab. (3) what about cameras tab, is it possible to do a seperate video look for 1 and 2 ME? (4) does this switcher has scaler on inputs?

[@djp_video]

On the 2 M/E Production Studio 4K that I have the 2nd M/E doesn't have a DSK; only the 1st M/E. It has the ability to play sequences of images. At 1080p it can hold 720 frames in total along with an accompanying sound clip. The Cameras tab only controls the cameras. Any exposure settings or coloring is done at the camera, not in the switcher, so the video going to each M/E is identical. The 2 M/E Production Studio 4K does not have scalers.

[@judywhite6559]

We are using blackmagic design atem 2 m/e advanced panel and are using me1 for social media and me2 for imag. This is for a church and am learning the system. How do you lock me1 and me2 together so social media is following what we imag also. One person is using the system and I sit and call the shots for our 3 camera operators. Thank you.

[@djp_video]

There's no built-in way to do it. But if you were to use your own custom control panel (X-Keys with JustMacros or Central Control, a Stream Deck with Companion, or something from Skaarhoj) you could program a single button on those panels to control both MEs.

[@westongrilloruns]

Good rundown, thanx!

[@twinchester16]

This is great info I saved this video to use as we look to upgrade. For control room setup (sorry I’m still watching the video so maybe you cover it) do you recommend 1 or 2 tv monitors?

[@djp_video]

The more monitors the better

[@user-ns5uk6rn6z]

is the ME a TV tech director - switching? if so it might be similar to a cascading switcher that manages multiple sources some to include specific effects?

[@carsten7446]

THANK YOU !!!

[@lightfacemedia]

I am looking for a switcher for my trailer. I also need routing and I am thinking the new ATEM 4 ME Constellation will allow me to not only route in the trailer to all my various internal monitors but be just as good as my old ATEM for switching the show. With the Constellations on scene now what do you think are the key differences from the traditional Television Studio HD I need to replace? I will mostly use for iMag, speaker confidence monitors, live streaming, video walls, etc. Should I upgrade to the ATEM 4K or go with the Constellation ATEM 4 ME? they are about the same price. I do not need more than HD right now.

[@djp_video]

If you don't need 4K the Constellation is a far more capable switcher. Even though the Constellations have the ability to output any video signal, they don't operate the same as a routing switcher... with a routing switcher whatever comes into an input is exactly what comes out of an output without an conversions or other processing. With the Constellations, the outputs have gone through processing -- scaling and frame rate conversion to make the video conform to the video standard setting of the switcher, the original audio channels are stripped and replaced with the stereo program mix plus the four talkback channels, timecode is replaced with program timecode, and all SDI ancillary data is replaced with that from the program feed as well. That processing also adds between 0.5 and 2 frames of latency. That is fine for many situations, but there are likely to be scenarios where you want to preserve the original signal (for recording, for example) without it being modified, and the Constellations don't do that.

[@camaperture8116]

If I don't have access to a hardware switcher do you know if there's a way I can learn more about using these hands-on with a software-based version? More as a practice emulator, not as a replacement.

[@djp_video]

I'm not aware of any simulators. And the software-based video switchers operate entirely differently. You might reach out to people or companies in your area to see if you can sit in on a production.

[@TyrantT316]

Do you have or would you do a video related to video/graphic playback devices and software that you feed into a mixer?

[@djp_video]

I did a demo last week of my graphics software. Other than that, no.

[@JonathanSebastian407]

Thank you so much for this upload. Have a company that wants me to use the 4M/E and this video is by far the best explanation. Now I feel more confident. Do you read the instruction manual for all the products u use?

[@djp_video]

Sometimes. I usually figure out everything I can on my own, then read the manual to discover everything else I might have missed if it seems like there's more than what I'm discovering on my own.

[@JonathanSebastian407]

Can you use different combination of the M/E’s to make different presets (or “looks” ). I’m working with 3 projectors (2 will have the same program), and 3 down stage monitors. My goal is to be able to send gfx and video content to any of the projectors, and gfx or notes to any of the down stage monitors. As well as send gfx and video to Vmix. Hope you don’t mind me asking thank you so much

[@djp_video]

The 4 M/E switcher has 24 video outputs. Each of those outputs can come from most any of the switcher's various internal video sources (like M/E 1 Program, M/E 2 Program, M/E 1 Preview, etc.) OR any of the input video sources. So if you connect one of the outputs to one of the monitors, you can change the source on that monitor, whether that be a program feed or any camera, computer, etc. connected to any of the inputs. If you want to do things like cross-fades, overlaying graphics on top of a source, overlaying one video feed on top of another (Picture-in-Picture) you'll need to use one of the 4 M/E units to build that. And then you can take the Program output of that M/E and send that to one of your monitors. And you can do that in any combination... M/E 1 Program to Projector 1, M/E 2 Program to Projector 2, camera 6 to monitor 3, camera 5 to monitor 4, M/E 3 Program to a video recorder, etc. Doing that routing can either be done manually through a separate control panel or through ATEM Software Control. On top of that, you can record sequences of actions as Macros that can be played back later. So you could setup a macro to "Change the source for the output going to Projector 1 to camera 3, change the source for the output going to Projector 2 to M/E 2 Program, change the source for monitor 3 to M/E 1 Program" all with a single button press.

[@JonathanSebastian407]

@@djp_videothank you so much! If you ever are in Orlando do not hesitate to reach out for anything

[@rodaliste]

I was always wondering how they pull off live streaming of events and maintaining a separate feed for the in-situ big screens. But would that mean that the same technical director is cutting for both programs at the same time?

[@djp_video]

You can split it up and have two people working at the same time. You could use multiple control panels, or multiple copies of ATEM Software Control, or some combination thereof.

[@rodaliste]

@@djp_video I agree using multiple software-based controls is a good solution for that scenario, but is there any active production case in which having 2 M/E hardware-only is useful? Unless a 2 M/E console is cheaper than 2 x 1 M/E consoles I'd argue it would be better for two technical directors to use independent consoles.

[@rodaliste]

Answering myself: two independent consoles would require a powerful signal processor mixer in the chain to split the inputs.

[@pjtemplin]

I see that ME1 can use the ME2 output as an input. Can you use the ME1 output as an input on ME2?

[@djp_video]

Not on the Blackmagic switchers, without looping one of the switcher outputs back to one of the inputs (and thereby adding additional latency).

[@bokelleher]

Thanks!

[@pangea2003]

can the M/E be used as a totally independent secondary output to the Main Program output and send the M/E mix from a secondary sdi output at the back of the switcher? Thanks

[@djp_video]

Yes.

[@trinityhsv]

I am trying to figure out how to key a graphic and move it on screen using the joystick.I have done it before but for the life of me I cannot remember how I did it. Can you offer some enlightenment? I have the graphic through a keyed, but the M/E 2 Key button on the joystick doesn't let me move it. What am I doing wrong? BTW, I have a Blackmagic ATEM 2 M/E Production Switcher.

[@arielmartina69]

Hola Doug, te hago una consulta, como activo mis 4 key del atem 2 e/m, solo tengo activadas la 1 y2, muchas gracias

[@djp_video]

Are you using an Advanced Panel or are you talking about ATEM Software Control? In either case, when connected to a 4 M/E switcher you should have buttons you can press to access the 3rd and 4th M/E. But if you have a 2 M/E switcher, you'll only have access to 2 M/Es.

[@arielmartina69]

@@djp_video gracias por responder, tengo un panel avanzado de 2, esa es la razon entonces, muchas gracias, te mando un abrazo

[@antwicurtis789]

If you’re using the ME2 as a separate source for switching for IMAG. How does it work? Because all the inputs are going to the main switcher how do the second TD have control to the sources through ME? Is it an output from the main switcher to another switcher?

[@djp_video]

The multiple M/Es on a switcher have access to the same inputs. So input 1 on M/E 1 is the same as input 1 on M/E 2. Each M/E can either go to its own output (e.g. IMAG) or be used as an input on another M/E, giving you the ability to create multiple layers, incorporating the output of one M/E into another. In terms of control, it can be done with multiple controllers, but more commonly each M/E being used has its own set of buttons on a single control panel. Take a look at the Blackmagic 2 or 4 M/E Advanced Panel to see what that looks like. You’ll see repeated sections of buttons, each of which controls one M/E on a switcher.

[@antwicurtis789]

@@djp_video Thank you for the clarification. I love your content and it has been helping me a lot! I appreciate it.

[@MixmasterMegz767]

will the Atem Advance panel 2 m/e work with the 8k 4m/e switcher ? building a rack with the pro x video case but the space on the desk is not that big for a 4 m/e panel

[@djp_video]

Yes. Any of the Advanced Panels will work with any ATEM switcher.

[@gkmediadrive8080]

Beautiful Explanation, but a quick question, can I have two people operate the switcher for the individual M/Es?

[@djp_video]

Most switchers do allow multiple users to be connected simultaneously, yes.

[@mxolisimaselela4840]

@@djp_video To piggy back off this question, can I have 2 separate Black Magic Switchers (advanced Panels) connecting to an Atem 4m/e and being able to control the first 2 m/e's with the 2 physical switchers and the 3rd m/e on the software, simultaneously and independent of each other?

[@johnellieplay8793]

Hey Doug! Awesome video. Quick question. How do you have two different people controlling the same switcher at the same time? If you have one person controlling ME1 and the other controlling ME2, how do you accomplish that??

[@djp_video]

ATEM switchers allow multiple connections for control. The exact number varies by model, but I believe it's at least 5 on all models. But each device or app counts as 1. So if you have ATEM Software Control running, and a Blackmagic Advanced Panel, and also Bitfocus Companion, and also MixEffect on an iPad, that would be 4 of your available connections. (The one exception to this is the just-announced Micro Panel, which shares its connection with ATEM Software Control.) Each device/app can control one or more M/Es. The exact implementation of that varies, but it's fairly standard that most will support up to 4. In the case of the Blackmagic control panels, they have four selection buttons per "row" (the 1 M/E panel has one row, 2 M/E panel has 2 rows, etc.) which allow you to pick which M/E you are controlling at any given time. If multiple people/panels/apps are controlling the same ATEM and M/E at the same time, they will all stay up to date with the current status, and they will all allow control at the same time. So if operator 1 selects input 3 as the preview source, all connected devices will turn input 3 green on the preview bus. If operator 2 selects input 2 as the program source, all connected devices will turn input 2 red for the program bus. So it can be collaborative, or you can have different devices controlling different M/Es. It's up to you on how you want to set that up.

[@johnellieplay8793]

@@djp_video so I have the 20x20 switcher. It only has one Ethernet port for control. How exactly would I hook up another control panel? Sorry to be annoying, just trying to understand.

[@djp_video]

@johnellieplay8793 Okay, so you have a video routing switcher… not referring to a video switcher. The names are similar and confusing. Got it. If it is one of the Blackmagic Videohubs, it connects to an Ethernet network, and multiple control devices can connect over the network. When any one of the connected control panels or apps makes a routing change, all other connected apps/panels are notified of the new route so they all stay up to date. If it’s a routing switcher from another manufacturer, it may do something similar, but many of them use RS232 serial and in that case, as a general rule, only one control panel or computer can be connected at once. There are ways of working around this, but generally speaking only one device has the ability to control at a time.

[@johnellieplay8793]

@@djp_video I’m so sorry for the confusion, Doug. I have the Blackmagic Design ATEM 2 M/E Constellation HD. I misspoke in my last comment. That’s my fault. I guess I’m just clear on how multiple controllers can work if there’s only one port. Sorry if that’s obvious, just very new to this world. Your videos are a huge help,

[@djp_video]

They connect over Ethernet. It sounds like you’re probably used to using USB, which does only work with one connected device. You can connect the ATEM to an Ethernet switch and the signal is available for any device on your network. The ATEMs know how to juggle that. But it boils down to it always keeping every device and app up to date so any change made by one device gets synchronized to all other devices.

[@johnjeremih]

You are awesome!

[@maizesoft]

Can you use the HDMI1 output selector buttons on ATEM mini extreme to do the IMAG while streaming the program?

[@djp_video]

Yes, you could. But only cuts. No other transitions.

[@johnreece6702]

Can you use an M/E in order to keep a chroma key on while switching between multiple cameras?

[@djp_video]

You could, but you don't need a separate M/E to do that. You can just leave the key on-screen when doing a transition behind it.

[@DivineLightProductions]

Thanks for sharing this! Do you have any insight on how to sync multiple cameras when you’re on a setup not as complex as having the switchers and genlock and time code and what not? For me all my cameras are stand alone without CCUs and I run them into OBS with budget friendly capture cards. (Hoping to upgrade my equipment as I expand into this live event capture arena)

[@djp_video]

If you're shooting and editing later, you can use timecode to sync the start of the clips, but without genlock capability they'll drift apart from one another over time. If you're doing live work and are having a problem with OBS, you can move to a hardware-based switcher like an ATEM, which will buffer frames as needed to maintain close sync. Without genlock you just aren't going to be able to get multiple cameras to operate at exactly the same frame rate, leading to drift issues in editing.

[@DivineLightProductions]

@@djp_video Thank you for your time and knowledge. I figured the drift will just constantly be an obstacle. I’ll have to get a hardware switcher. Is there a specific feature of the switcher that I should look for?

[@djp_video]

Yes... you'll want a frame synchronizer. But all of them have that these days.

[@DivineLightProductions]

@@djp_video Thank you! you're a kind soul!

[@federicogesualdi7126]

Hi dough, i have a question. I have an atem 4me and I am using the supersource for a PiP. I was wondering if I am able to use multiple supersource. I see only one of this in my atem software option. For example if I have a person and the slides on the side, how can I set an other identical supersource with the same graphic setting but for example an other camera input for the person who is speaking?

[@djp_video]

The Constellation is the only Blackmagic switcher with multiple Supersources.

[@knowledgeseeker83]

how can we use PIP on atem 1 m/e switcher and change the video in PIP?

[@djp_video]

You can re-assign the source for the USK's PiP window

[@knowledgeseeker83]

@@djp_video USK's ????

[@djp_video]

Upstream Key... the layer that is used for the Picture-in-Picture

[@sunnysomerville]

I'm using ME/2 as my main switch and I'm sending the ME/2 output to ME/1 and I want to use the downstream key for a lower third only on the ME/1 output (going to my live stream) but I cannot find a way to do this. Is it possible?

[@djp_video]

Yes, this is doable. It should just work. If you're going through those steps just so you have versions with and without the lower third, you can do all of that on a single M/E -- just send one of the Clean Feeds to an Aux output to get the version without the downstream key applied (Clean Feed 1 for pre-DSK 1, Clean Feed 2 for post-DSK1 and pre-DSK2).

[@sunnysomerville]

@@djp_video Thanks Doug for your quick reply. I knew it was user error since it seems like an easy operation. The aux and clean feed is a great suggestion too. Love your videos!

[@Zonuna_Chawngthu]

Nice explanation, but how do you have both multiview on one screen ?

[@djp_video]

I’m running the four signals (program 1, program 2, multiview 1, multiview 2) into a Multiview 4 from Blackmagic, and recording the output.

[@Zonuna_Chawngthu]

@@djp_video Thank you ...👍

[@joeybaronstudio]

Great videos btw, me’s I use for multiple screens for concerts I’m using vmix. Have you ever had any experience with vmix, trying to decide between vmix and tricaster, now with central control you can use newtek hardware with vmix

[@djp_video]

I have used vMix for replay many times, but I don't use it as a switcher. It's pretty common for us to need IMAG, and the latency on software-based switchers like vMix and the Tricaster is too long for my tastes.

[@joeybaronstudio]

@@djp_video you mean latency with sdi or ndi, sdi is not bad but as long as you offset audio it works,,, I started in video in the day of 3/4 and Betamax and triax cable, then went to recording and mixing audio, now getting back in video so much has changed, I saw you genlock video and said I remember that but so far vmix has performed excellent… so you use a traditional switcher? I use to have a grass valley 16 input sdi but sold it years ago cause they had just came out with ones that had digitally effects

[@djp_video]

​@@joeybaronstudio I use Blackmagic ATEM switchers. They're hardware-based, so they have very low latency -- on average just half a frame -- from signal input to signal output. The switcher only has to buffer the incoming video a maximum of one frame. So if the output of the switcher is starting to draw the first line of a new frame but a camera signal starts coming in one line later, the switcher has to delay it by 1079 lines for it to be in sync with the output (assuming 1080p). Similarly, if a camera is 5 lines ahead of the switcher, the camera's signal only has to be delayed by 5 lines to be in sync. (I'm over-simplifying, but you get the idea.) As a result, the average latency is a half a frame. Software-based switchers like vMix or the Tricaster operate completely differently. The capture cards they use will capture an entire frame before passing it over to the software for processing. The software can then do whatever it needs to -- resize, rotate, translate, key, set opacity, etc. to build the frame of video that is going to be output. Once the entire frame has been constructed, it is passed to the output card as a whole frame, which will then hold it until it is time to start sending the new frame -- anywhere between 0 and 1 frames. Building the frame can take a while, so what you end up with is an average latency of a bare minimum of just over 2 frames, but having latency of 4-5 frames isn't uncommon either, depending on the complexity of what you're doing and the speed of the computer the software is running on. On top of that, all digital video cameras have some latency as well, as does the output device (projector/monitor/TV). When you add all of those up, it can get rather long. Which is why when we're doing IMAG we have to be really careful about what gear we use to keep the total latency to a minimum, or the signal delay will be quite visible to a live audience. ...Which is one of the main reasons I stick with hardware switchers rather than software-based switchers. I do IMAG enough that I have to keep my latencies low. My cameras have about a 2-frame latency, and most projectors add at least 4-5 frames. Throw in the extra 2-4 you get with software switchers vs hardware switchers, and you could be as much as 11 frames delayed from camera acquisition to final output. That kind of delay is really noticeable, especially if you're running at 25 or 30 fps -- you're coming up on a half a second in a not-so-atypical situation. We can minimize the impact by shooting at 60fps and using hardware switchers, which is what I do, but total number of frames of latency stays more or less consistent with a given hardware chain. The additional latency introduced by software switchers isn't an issue if your output isn't seen by a live audience. So if you're just live streaming out to the Internet nobody will ever know. But for IMAG, it makes a visible difference. The other issue is power consumption and heat. My 2 M/E ATEM switcher draws a maximum of 150W. A PC capable of doing roughly the same thing is easily going to be at least four times that. In a production trailer like mine, every watt counts, both in terms of consumption and heat generation. Every Watt of heat I generate has to be offset by about 3 Watts of air conditioning.

[@joeybaronstudio]

@@djp_video yea I just saw your power video and power has been our biggest problem cause we are running audio gear as well once in a while we use generators and have good success with them but we have a power thing that goes basically from the pole power 3 phase box that breaks out to 110

[@jeffsaffron5647]

Blackmagic... 4x M/E... 20x AUX... 1x audio.

[@djp_video]

Funny how even though Blackmagic bought Fairlight that they don't take audio very seriously.

[@mimo27397]

if you do studio production on a tricaster you will know about these...

[@djp_video]

A lot of people who have equipment or software capable of building multiple video outputs aren't aware of how to do so.

[@momopnoy]

curious, what firmware is your ATEM 2ME on?

[@djp_video]

Short answer, 8.6.1.

[@momopnoy]

Curious, have you updated since?

[@djp_video]

I’m on the latest available for my model of switcher. It hasn’t received any firmware updates in at least a few years now.

[@gearhead00001]

How do you wire multiple constellation 8k... let's say three constellation 8k

[@djp_video]

Wire to do what exactly?

[@gearhead00001]

@@djp_video I would like to get 3 Constellation 8k and use 1 for the main and the existing 2 for images and video clips

[@djp_video]

And you need something more sophisticated than connecting the outputs of the two to the main one?

[@gearhead00001]

@@djp_video I called blackmagic and a sale rep told me I cannot do that because that was my first thought

[@gearhead00001]

I was thinking to use the 40x40 4k router to do that

[@EugeneMaynard]

👍🏾🙏🏾

[@helmanfrow]

Algorithm nom nom.