Dover 1000 foot per minute gearless traction elevator machines

This is a recently modernized Dover gearless traction elevator machine room. The machines are DC 60 horsepower open frame motors with a directly mounted rope sheave. It's double wrapped. In other words the cables (called ropes in the elevator trade) are connected to the car, go up and over the motor sheave, down and around the deflection sheave, back over the motor sheave, and then down to the counterweight. This gives the motor a lot more "grip" or traction to the hoisting ropes. The controller is part of a larger modernization project. It's a Thyssen Krupp TAC32T with Destination Dispatch.
Destination Dispatch is a completely new way of calling an elevator. Instead of the traditional method of pressing an up or down button in the lobby, you are greeted with a large screen. You simply select the floor you are going to, and it assigns you an elevator. Once that car opens it's doors, your floor is already selected for you. This system is a lot more effective in reducing the amount of redundant stops which in turn makes the system more efficient by reducing wait times. The upper floor continue to have traditional up/down hall buttons.

[@BenDeSwert666]

I work for KONE Belgium. We have 2 elevators in our arsenal, built by Jaspar in 1932 and 1933. The original gearless motors are still there. They're from this caliber, but about twice as big. The diameter of the brake pulley is 1,80 meter. It powers a massive 8 meter by 5 meter car, with a lifting capacity of 6 metric tonnes, via 12 20mm ropes, 3 seperate counter weights, and it only handles 2 stops, into a depth of 36 meter. They're the elevators of the pedestrian tunnel linking the city center of Antwerp to the river Schelde's left bank. Both the doors and the car are still original, so it's still going strong after 80 odd years. Control panel is replaced by the KONE LCE processing unit, along with a huge drive unit, but the original relay and contactor panel is still on display in the engine room. They're quite spectacular to see in motion.

[@dieselshadow]

Super cool stuff man! 👍🏼

[@OliversElevators]

Lol KONE is my favorite elevator manufacturer. Recognize my profile picture? 🙃

[@BenDeSwert666]

@@OliversElevators of course I do. Monospace arrows 🙂

[@OliversElevators]

@@BenDeSwert666 yeah, this picture was actually taken from a directional arrow of a MonoSpace with the Design Series fixtures. I think they might be discontinued here in America now, which is unfortunate, as they were the most beautiful fixtures I’ve ever seen. But I like all KONE fixtures. Some of these ThyssenKrupp and Otis fixtures are just horrible.

[@poly_hexamethyl]

I'm surprised there are no sparks from the brushes/commutator when producing that much torque. Very well designed!

[@manuelalopez-pedraza6874]

There are some visible, faint sparks off the bottom brush, where it’s darker.

[@firesurfer]

I've seen so many of these in the '80s. They were state of the art then. I still remember some of the really old motor rooms from the 1920's. They had a rope you pulled in the cab to engage the car. It ran in a loop from top of shaft to bottom. Getting the timing down to level the car was an art. Not to mention the lightning storm from the giant relays in the motor room. CA-CHUNK!!

[@rylaneddie7435]

I dont mean to be off topic but does anyone know of a trick to get back into an instagram account?? I was stupid lost my login password. I would appreciate any tips you can give me

[@rylaneddie7435]

@Keaton Damien thanks for your reply. I got to the site thru google and im trying it out atm. I see it takes a while so I will reply here later with my results.

[@rylaneddie7435]

@Keaton Damien it worked and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy! Thank you so much, you really help me out!

[@keatondamien9975]

@Rylan Eddie Glad I could help xD

[@davida1hiwaaynet]

Very nice system. Love the incredible torque of the large brushed DC motors. That is a beast!

[@gunnii01]

What nice machines - sooo smooth and silent ! Thanks for the cool Video...

[@MenzelMotors]

... we like big electric motors, videos of this kind should really be considered more ...

[@QEElevators]

Look up Otis’s 339HT machine that thing is like 10 feet tall with a few hundred hp it’s massive

[@burningdust]

Big ‘ol DC giant, careful to get each call just right.

[@itsmewillempy]

Large commutator . I like the open view .great video. Thanks for sharing

[@frankeggers4024]

It was a HUGE commutator! Did you notice the large number of segments and brushes? Now do a google search on "alexanderson alternator". Check out this link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJatlnyulrKkfJI

[@TheKurtsPlaceChannel]

Very entertaining and fun to watch. Thanks for posting this.

[@luischaves5128]

Que bello ver un sistema de potencia de lo mejor que siempre se admira

[@angrydenham4117]

that old motor is beautiful!

[@anthonyboarman3833]

I get the impression that those motors last a long time.

[@QEElevators]

I wish you showed those hydraulic power units in the back on action. Super cool how there are hydraulic units in the traction machine room

[@qeelevators2960]

I’m glad they kept the old motors.

[@PAelevators]

AWESOME!

[@francoispf3418]

Belle machinerie 👍👍👍👍

[@Seppen552]

60 HP is pretty impressive for a traction elevator motor.

[@frankeggers4024]

Big high speed elevators would have to have way more than 60 hp. Given the weights and speed you can easily calculate the required power for steady speed operation knowing that 1 HP = 550 foot pounds per second. But acceleration would add to the required power.

[@Seppen552]

@@frankeggers4024 Wow, thanks for the info! I absolutely didn't know that!

[@38911bytefree]

it is impressive how silent is the motor room, you can barely hear the machine making noises

[@frankeggers4024]

Generally electric motors are inherently fairly quiet.

[@38911bytefree]

@@frankeggers4024 Yep, but traction equipment not and two speeds AC in elevators, you can hear it from 3 or 4 floors below.

[@UQRXD]

The elevator tec keeps that room like new.😃

[@ThiagoPerroni]

Cool dude..

[@ElevatingArizonaByGageWilliams]

This is where all the magic happens y’all

[@Organgrinder1010]

Motors themselves are super quiet starting, running and stopping.

[@kylohusky]

60 hp at 141 rpm is 2235 foot pounds of torque

[@RODALCO2007]

Very quiet elevator room, no noisy Ward Lennard rotary gen sets, Solid state DC supply ?

[@wheetcracker]

If it wasn't dc there wouldn't be brushes & a commutator on that motor then, no?

[@shawncampbell1792]

Yes the motors has a DC variable voltage solid state drive mounted in each controller. No Ward/Leonard needed because the AC to DC conversion is done by Silicon Controlled Rectifiers (SCR's). This design made Ward/Leonards obsolete. Further, permanent magnet variable voltage variable frequency AC motors (with AC solid state drives) made DC motors obsolete! Only place you will see DC motors used is typically existing buildings. Lions share of new installs are permanent magnet AC motors with drives. Typical of new machine room and machine room less elevators. The permanent magnet AC motors have very high efficiencies which is what really makes them desirable these days where electricity is expensive.

[@danf5087]

A maintenance person nightmare.

[@firesurfer]

@@danf5087 Not really, everything is computerized and solid state. Super reliable. No more giant click clack relays that sound like a thunderstorm when being used.

[@qeelevators2960]

Very quiet!

[@sleeptyper]

A little bigger washing machine motor... 😉

[@frankeggers4024]

Considering the huge number of commutator bars it must operate at a rather high voltage.

[@milus2200]

How does the motor slow down? What does she do to absorb the inertia?

[@eugenepowe1117]

Cool

[@f800gt76]

I've seen such a system in Federation tower in Moscow and I was a little bit confused for a first time )

[@northernmichigamotorsports]

So, with Destination Dispatch can I still push all of the floor buttons on my way out of the car?

[@dieselshadow]

No, not typically. Modern elevators have what’s called an “anti-nuisance” feature. If a bunch of buttons are pressed and the load weigher doesn’t see much or any weight, it’ll cancel all those calls after a few seconds. This feature works with destination dispatch or not.

[@Do_the_Dishes]

dieselshadowman, yeah, but the Do-overs I worked on had shitty load weighing devices. 84 vintage stuff had floating platforms that couldn’t hold an adjustment because of all the dirt & debris constantly getting in it. Good stuff! Thanks for posting.

[@LordVoltRod2c]

@@dieselshadow Ok I got a solution to that. Now if only I could be like big bird and get that big hairy elephant friend of his to materialize in the elevator. 🤣

[@qeelevators2960]

Because of those hydraulic pumps in the back, the motor room of a *TRACTION* elevator will now smell like oil.

[@FloridianElevators]

How old are these motors?

[@redsquirrelftw]

Wow it's crazy there's no gears, shows how strong the magnetics are. Super quiet too. Guessing that high pitch sound is the PSU, and then it shuts off when the cart locks into place and door opens I guess?

[@dieselshadow]

PSU? That noise you hear is the high frequency drive switching at 10k hertz. The car doesn’t “lock in place”, rather the big brake sets (if you look closely, you can see and hear it move in the video) and holds the car at rest. Well, I guess you could say it locks in place. 😆

[@sergeyblinov4957]

@@dieselshadow, are these large DC motors controlled with high frequency "traction" DC choppers (some sort of variable voltage/current step-down DC/DC converter)?

[@dieselshadow]

There’s a drive with variable voltage and current output along with a field coil driver within the drive. It’s all self contained and can actually be setup to drive an AC motor as well.

[@sergeyblinov4957]

@@dieselshadow, thank you! So, it seems to be a special version of AC VFD with software, capable to use 3-phase output IGBT bridge as 2-3 invividual DC regulated "legs", capable of 2-way buck or boost convertion to allow electrodynamic rheostatic braking.

[@TheTheo58]

Am I correct the MG set were replaced with a three phase high voltage/high amperage AC transformer with a full bridge DC rectifier or a high voltage/amperage bridge rectifier configured with the three phase power?

[@frankeggers4024]

Basically your are correct, but it is somewhat more complicated than that. There are times when the traction motor acts like a generator to keep the elevator from moving too fast. That happens when the elevator car is either heavier or lighter than the counterweight and sometimes when it is quickly slowing down; probably you get the general idea. The power it generates under those conditions is returned to the power company or reduces the total power used by the building. So, the solid state supply must be able to supply DC from 0 volts up to maximum volts of either polarity, and must also be able to accept power FROM the traction motor when the traction motor is acting like a generator. Being able to do all that efficiently is rather complicated and requires solid state devices to operate in a high frequency switching mode. You can learn more from google searches. Note that DC machines can act as either motors or generators. There is little difference between a DC motor and a DC generator.

[@anthonyboarman3833]

@@frankeggers4024 Wow you are really smart. I know a little about regen I think it's called.

[@frankeggers4024]

@@anthonyboarman3833 Right; it is called regen(eration). I don't know how olde that principle is, but it goes back to before 1900. My Tesla uses regenerative braking. In addition to saving energy, it should make the friction brakes last for a very long time.

[@anthonyboarman3833]

@@frankeggers4024 In the old elevators maybe that energy was waste heat. In your Tesla the some of the braking is turning the motor into a generator to help slow the car? Does that help charge the battery? The car also has disk brakes? Do you like your Tesla? I know they are expensive.

[@frankeggers4024]

@@anthonyboarman3833 The Tesla model 3 is less expensive than other Teslas. And yes, the traction motor, while slowing the car down, sends power back to the battery. I find that I rarely need to use the brakes except for the last 5 mph or so. With the old elevators using an MG set, regeneration did return power to the power lines. That function was inherent in the design, i.e., it required no additional parts or controls. While the elevator motor was acting as a brake it was generating power and sending that power back to the generator on the MG set. The generator on the MG set was acting as a motor and mechanically sending power back to the 3-phase motor. The 3-phase motor was acting as an asynchronous generator and sending power back to the power lines. Remember that, except for series motors, DC motors and generators are the same thing. Any shunt or separately excited DC generator and also act as a motor and vice versa. With most DC generators, the DC used to excite the fields comes from the armature of the generator, but that need not be. It is possible to provide the field power (excitation) from a separate source of DC. As the field current is increased, the voltage generated by the generator will increase. If the field current is reversed, the polarity of the voltage generated by the generator will reverse. Compared with the power the generator is producing, the fields require very little power, perhaps only 1 or 2 percent of the power that the generator is producing. Thus, with an elevator, it requires very little power to the generator fields to control the elevator. Usually the field current to the elevator motor would be kept constant. I could not state for certain what the source of field current would be for an elevator motor and generator, but it could have come from a small generator on the same shaft as the 3-phase motor driving the generator. When an induction motor is driven at greater then its synchronous speed it will act like an asynchronous generator and return power to the power line. In actual practice the building's use of power is usually greater than what the elevator is generating during its braking phase so the power us used by other items in the building, sometimes by other elevators. When many years ago I worked for Onan, a manufacturer of industrial engines and generators, I designed the control system they used for their DC dynamometers. I still have a copy of the electrical schematic. The dynamometers were basically DC generators which could also be used as motors to start an engine being tested. DC dynamometers are very similar in concept to the olde DC elevators. According to my father, the gun turrets on battle ships were operated the same way. In industry, where variable speed was required, they used the same method. Now all of that has become obsolete.

[@chip2139]

That looks like an Westinghouse motor.

[@JoseAntonio-tt2mb]

Nossa motor de corrente continua ainda .

[@JoseAntonio-tt2mb]

A marca é boa thyssen

[@atomstarfireproductions8695]

Does it have an M-G set? Also, was it previously using a relay logic controller before it was replaced?

[@dieselshadow]

The M/G was removed during the modernization. And yes, it originally used a relay logic controller.

[@atomstarfireproductions8695]

If it is a DC motor, what is it running off of then?

[@dieselshadow]

It has a 10k drive from TKE running the motor. 👍🏼

[@atomstarfireproductions8695]

Just curious, do modern elevators use universal motors or do they use AC brushless motors?

[@dieselshadow]

A new modern elevator typically uses either an AC permanent magnet motor or an AC induction motor. It’s very rare to see a DC machine other than a modernized elevator that the motor was kept like in this video.

[@kansasthunderman1]

What is the capacity and number of floors?

[@dieselshadow]

I believe they are 2500lb capacity. They are express elevators serving the upper 15 floors and lower lobby with a 15 floor express zone.

[@donalddavis581]

WOW! Lots of metal from those ropes! Look dry as a bone

[@dieselshadow]

That’s actually dried up lubricant you see on the floor. 👍🏼

[@user-ty9fi6rb2s]

Does the thyristor regulator control the winch?

[@b43xoit]

SCRs.

[@andrewbraun229]

is that a dover dry pumping unit behind the fence at the :14 mark?

[@dieselshadow]

Yessir, that's right. It's for a little 2 stop transfer elevator.

[@andrewbraun229]

Interesting, things you don't expect to see in a high rise machine room.

[@qeelevators2960]

Andrew Braun - I just realized! A hospital elevator machine room had that same layout!

[@allenmoore5211]

Don't like the Destination Dispatch to many trapped passenger calls with no floor call buttons in car.

[@lintonthomas9826]

What is the brand name of the drive running the motor?

[@dieselshadow]

It's a ThyssenKrupp drive in a TAC32T controller.

[@blueauraretriever]

very quiet motors

[@DandyDon1]

DC motors with controlled (relatively slow) speeds like this are generally very quiet.

[@EWPA14]

I've always found Dover & gearless to be a weird combination.

[@DavidBerquist334]

What is the voltage and amperage rating is it 3 phase or single phase

[@dieselshadow]

It’s a DC motor.

[@DavidBerquist334]

@@dieselshadow what is the voltage amp amperage draw

[@dieselshadow]

David, I’m sorry. I don’t recall and I looked through my pictures. I don’t have a picture of the data tag. But I do believe there is a shot of it in the video. You’ll need to pause it to see. 👍🏼

[@DavidBerquist334]

@@dieselshadow when your there again can you tell me i saw tag in video but cant read it thanks

[@dieselshadow]

Data tag says 459 armature volts, 102 amps, 60 horsepower, at 141 RPM. 👍🏼

[@kepri29422elevators]

Where is the governors?

[@dieselshadow]

They are on a secondary slab just below the one you see the machines sitting on. There is a hatch in the floor to access that slab. The rope grippers are also located down there.

[@lmelcesc]

Do you know what is the manufacture year?

[@dieselshadow]

No sir, I don’t. But I’d guess in the 80s.

[@DavidBerquist334]

is it 3 phase

[@dieselshadow]

The motor is DC, not AC. But the controller and drive is 3 phase 480vac which in turn feeds and regulates the DC voltage/current to the motor and fields to control speed. 👍🏼

[@ElevatingArizonaByGageWilliams]

Where is this at?

[@dieselshadow]

Nashville TN. 👍🏼

[@matthewtsai4847]

@@dieselshadow Is this at the Renaissance hotel?

[@matthewtsai4847]

Or fifth third tower?

[@bigjim5723]

nice-but i hope where these motors that control my ride is locked up, so no one can mess with that stuff.

[@dieselshadow]

Yessir Jim, they are very secure. You have to pass through several locked doors that only certain people have access to. Code requires these doors to be locked at all times, self closing and self locking, and to not be able to opened by a "master key." The door also has a large label saying "Authorized Personnel Only." As an elevator man myself, it can be very difficult to get into these machinery spaces on a regular basis, but it's a necessary evil.

[@bigjim5723]

they very clean around them-i might say-and hey-hello.:-)

[@dieselshadow]

How are you Big Fella? LOL

[@blueauraretriever]

BigJim57 some are in the shaft - therefore called MRL

[@qeelevators2960]

I’ve seen a ton of places that forget to lock the motor rooms! I always go in them (if people aren’t around) and film the motor/machinery!

[@mandycheung9805]

高速梯

[@nakaiklx250f]

主ロープの錆酷いですね笑 交換しないと大変だよ！

[@michaelcrider8413]

Looks like lang lay ropes....

[@UQRXD]

60hp.

[@joehead1294]

A lot of metal shavings showing @ 0:57.

[@dieselshadow]

It’s dried up rope lubricant, not metal. Metal shavings aren’t produced by these ropes when they deteriorate. They show broken wires and form “fish hooks” Crown wear shows up as flat spots on the outer diameter of the rope. But as long as the rope doesn’t have X amount of breaks in a single lay and it meets minimum diameter, it’s good to go. Remember, there’s an absolutely huge safety factor involved when it comes to elevator traction ropes. 👍🏼

[@capbyrd01]

Dover Memphis. Think I had some family that worked there. And the new system sounds awful. Unless there is still a way for me to push all the buttons, I don't like it.

[@civick2052287livecom]

I see lot of metal shaving. That's not good...

[@dieselshadow]

That’s actually dried up rope lubricant you see, not metal. Fairly normal to see on a fast high rise elevator.

[@douro20]

I hate destination dispatch.

[@qeelevators2960]

Why!