Dr. Brown Debates Dr. Theodore Zachariades on the Gifts of the Spirit

Friday, June 22, 2018
Filmed by Reforming America Ministries, June 22, 2018, all rights reserved.

[@allbusiness2775]

As a reformed believer, I have been conflicted/on the fence on this especially as there are numerous reformed teachers who teach against the continuation of the gifts. But, after this debate, I am confident that the gifts continue today. Thank you for bringing this issue to light and allowing the Bible to speak for itself, regardless of how presuppositional traditions may get in the way of seeing the truth.

[@PreachTheWord1]

I was in the same shoes you were years ago. But if your authority is Scripture alone and reading the Bible in its plain reading then you can't fight God.

[@sjohn-777]

I am so glad to hear. You go tell the others too. I recently talked to one of the reformed believer who said that Gifts and miracles all stopped. I was so sad that evil is not letting them see what Holy Spirit is doing and can do. Gifts of the Holy Spirit still exists. Its pure and cannot be earned, thats why they are called Gifts! Yes, the evil can replicate things but you will know the difference.

[@neoshiloh7897]

Brother/ sister, I am with you. Now I've always believed that the gifts have not ceased, for the simple reason that, as Dr Brown so beautifully pointed out, nowhere in scripture does it say that that they have. The other gentleman has a beautiful mind, but he himself based his argument on the carnal, his own understanding of the "formula" and "math" of language, human language, human understanding, but not scripture. I have to say though, I don't think the tongues they (because I know I don't have that gift) speak in prayer today is the true Spirit gifted tongues of the Bible. I don't know how to explain why I say that, just that it doesn't sound right to my spirit. Just sounds like a bunch of gibberish. This is a powerful debate. I wish I knew the Word of God as well as these guys.

[@DWHalse]

They certainly available today All B. I’m old now and disabled. In the young days I was honored to travel all over the world and see the Holy Spirit do marvelous signs and wonders. The only thing I haven’t seen is a resuscitation from a dead dude. I am confident He will answer my prayer for that event. Love ya!!

[@GodsGirlDawn]

David Halseth it won’t let me see the rest of yoyr comment. But if you were saying the only thing you haven’t seen is a resuscitation from your disability, then I am with you. I was paralyzed seven years ago in a car wreck and I believe the gifts are still for today. And I await my healing so desperately. I know God is true and I know that he can hear me and I believe I have a promise and his word that he will heal me on earth as it is in heaven. We just have to persevere and make the best of our situation and keep believing God and keep bringing glory to his name even in our situation. God bless you sir!

[@iamsteve4018]

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which Cessationists will go to override the simple declarations of Scripture.

[@scuzlol]

Simple eh

[@mjohnak]

I listen to Dr. Michael Brown and it seems simple and clear. I listen to Dr Theodore and it feels like you need a PhD in mental gymnastics to know and understand scripture. I think the word and the message of scripture should be simple enough for anyone to understand. If it floats your boat to go deep and think about these things in a PhD sort of way. More power to you. Just don’t be a stumbling block.

[@scottb4579]

Yes, "mental gymnastics" is a phrase I've often used to describe the thought process of those who seek to defend an erroneous, or even heretical view of scripture. At a certain point, one will not be able to use logical and simple reasoning to defend a lie. Cults like JWs, or heretics like Modalists engage in mental gymnastics. Another grievous problem with Theodore, is the hints of anger and irritation that begins to emerge from him at times as he speaks. These are evidences of the flesh at work, and are inappropriate. Especially when debating another Christian. I also take it as evidence the Holy Spirit is not there with him bearing witness what he is saying is true. You see a completely different spirit about Michael. Theodore does, however, correctly point out certain inaccurate translations, and this is always going to be a problem when translating one language to another. One reason we sometimes need to look a little deeper with the Greek or Hebrew

[@MotivLifter]

It never ceases to amaze cessationists how people who speak in other languages have no interpreter and aren’t speaking a language. If there was evidence of someone speaking another language they don’t know and an interpreter who understands it and can explain it then every cessationist would accept that evidence.

[@adysaxman77]

@@MotivLifter there are around 6,500 different languages in the world, and you're fluent in every one, to determine that the tongues that you hear, aren't a 'language' right? Even if there was someone to interpret it, (but that isn't always necessary, as interpretation of tongues is another gift of the Holy Ghost and some brethren who can speak in tongues have that gift too, so they can interpret the tongues that they utter) The cessationist wouldn't believe the interpretation either.

[@stepitup5409]

I am beginning to understand why many people don't want to debate Dr Brown. Not because of his wisdom, but, Gods truth is so well explained. I am learning so much about my Lord from you Dr Brown. Im driven to love Him more!

[@michaelmannucci8585]

Both Wilson and Waldron refuted Michael and left him without answer, so not sure what you’re talking about.

[@norrisonian]

Provide the minute marks where you say this occured, please.@MichaelMannucci

[@ramoncestero770]

Dr.Brown thank you so much for your faithfulness, may the Holy Spirit continue to use you in this way.

[@zenpapi1185]

Ramon Cestero Amen

[@gag928]

Dr Theodore sounds like he could debate Jesus on why it was wrong to heal on the sabbath

[@saved6655]

@@gag928 lol

[@levicaddell1077]

Dr. Brown won... hands down. I so appreciate the way you handle scripture. It is important to look at what scripture says and take what we believe from that. It is so wrong to seek scripture just to support what you believe. BTW: you logic here was infallible. Thanks Dr. Brown... May our Heavenly Father bless you.

[@CoreenT]

It's apparent who is filled with the Spirit and who is not. :-/ May Dr. Zachariades humble himself and seek the wonderful baptism of the Holy Spirit. :) (Luke 11:13)

[@kristen7416]

CoreenT The baptism of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the gifts of the Spirit. You can be a Cessationist and be filled with the Holy Spirit and no I’m not a Cessationist.

[@Psalm91Covered]

@@kristen7416 I seriously doubt that! The baptism in the Spirit is always evident in Acts by the gift of speaking in tongues, a gift of the Spirit...the manifestations are the proof of the indwelling Spirit, even for yourself.....and This baptism is where Jesus promised power from on high (power; the gifts of The Spirit)......and tongues is consider the least of the gifts, unless interpreted, so it seems most likely that all who are baptized in the Spirit will at the least speak in tongues which is a prayer language given to all believers who are baptized in The Spirit! But cessationists look at this least of gifts and deem it not necessary! Dont be decieved, cessationism wants to believe in the Spirit but deny the power there of, that's unbelief and falls in line with 2 Tim 3;5 having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof....

[@minjirewambugu7905]

Very unfortunate that such a fiery debate should arise from what the scriptures state without ambiguity. Let the cessationists tell us where these things evidently cease both in scripture and historical christianity.

[@CoreenT]

@@kristen7416 Ya, I believe Francis Chan was filled with the Spirit all along, even though he was a cessationist because of what was taught him. Fortunately he is no longer a cessationist because he continued to humbly seek the truth and believe God's Word. ^^

[@Th3BigBoy]

@@minjirewambugu7905 a "fiery" debate. Is that serious lol

[@randylevy15]

This is better than watching Marvel! Had me at the edge of my seat fired up!! 🔥 Lol Thank you Dr Michael Brown! I Thank the Lord he led me to your channel and ministry. It’s a blessing to learn and gain insight from you! God bless!

[@npcortezjr]

The presentation of Dr.Michael Brown about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit is excellent-- very clear and very scriptural. Amen..Dr.Brown. God bless you more😊👍

[@valeriereneeharper]

The only thing I struggle with is that signs are for the Jews. I know God still does miracles, etc. but gifts of the Holy Spirit were a sign for the Jews when there was a time period Jesus was standing and not yet sitting on the throne in the event of the Jews repenting and turning to Christ, Jesus would have brought the kingdom of Heaven down and reigned. But now since that didn’t happen, we are in the Church age spreading the kingdom of God for anyone who believes through faith and not by signs. So…….

[@saved6655]

@@valeriereneeharper cool, got any scripture for that?

[@rickscott4471]

This was painful to watch... Thank you Dr. Brown for sharing the full Gospel

[@ericjustasinner5695]

I have not yet started this video to say whom had a view that who would have won this topic. But you may like this from Walter Martin. He past away back in 1989 but you can find this topic of his online and most for that matter

[@murielthompson3266]

I am so glad that I found Dr. Brown. I love his teachings. I feel like The Holy Sprit has led me here to be taught.

[@salmistalabrada7637]

I just love the clarity and transparency and above all the love Dr Michael have

[@aaronhaskins9782]

Thank you for posting this. Now everyone can hear from themselves why Calvinism and Cessesionism is not a biblical world view.

[@BK-yz7px]

Aaron Haskins Being a Calvinist and a cessationist is a massive contradiction. You can’t believe God determines all things which come to pass and then turn around say something isn’t of God. The cessationist is forced to say demonic powers or human willpower is operating separately from God’s will to explain all of the events today that appear to be the manifestation of spiritual gifts. Also, Calvinists argue that passages specifically referring to the apostles apply to all of God’s predetermined elected believers. Meanwhile, many of those same people arguing for cessationism are saying verses that pertain to all believers only apply to the apostles. Contradictions all around for the Calvinist who is also a cessationist.

[@GabrielMartinez-su8di]

Not all Calvinists are Cessationists ...just saying 😊

[@svenwalton1332]

@@GabrielMartinez-su8di Thank God! (Not a calvinist - but I find those who honor the scriptures concerning the gifts way more loving and tolerable ;)

[@christianlove5003]

@@GabrielMartinez-su8di I’m Calvinist and love Pentecostals

[@christianlove5003]

I believe Calvinism is but not cessasionism

[@matthewschnelting8880]

Dr. Brown swept the floor! No question!

[@lilisanchez2605]

Dr. Brown May The Lord bless you richly. Thank you, it’s a privilege and honor to enjoy your debates.

[@azmenjohnson7669]

Amen! Thank you Dr. Brown for sticking to scripture. Scripture illuminates scripture!

[@jkirks8]

Dr Brown along with Matt Chandler changed my views on the gifts of the spirit. Thankful for faithful expositors of the word.

[@robertrodrigues7319]

Me too!!

[@mazzaroth2667]

No one is doing the miracles we saw in the Bible. Why be delusional and so disassociated with reality, if the church could heal the sick, raise the Dead, I have the blind to see physically, etc. Then we would have saw it during covid. There would have been plenty of Christians in the hospitals healing all the people who were sick from covid and bringing glory to God and turning many unto his name. But this didn't happen. It never does. I had a man tell me one time actually numerous people that they had the gift of healing, they all lied, I had a brother with cerebral palsy and I invited them all to come and lay hands and heal him nobody wanted to try even after boasting that they could. You know why? Because they couldn't heal him. It's such a lie! The only gift people claim to have is the one that's easily faked, and that is the one where they speak in gibberish. Nobody has a legitimate gift of tongues supernaturally, meaning to speak in all the languages of the nations in order to further the gospel as you see in Acts chapter 2, because again it's a lie.

[@tylerworrell4446]

I've been watching a lot of videos on this topic lately and having been a viewer of Dr. Brown for a while now I decided to watch this as well. In all of the videos I have watched I have yet to see a cessationist use solid biblical evidence to prove their claims. They'll talk about history, they'll even throw in their opinions of how "irrational" they think the gifts are, but they almost never give biblical examples and even if they do, their examples can be easily dismantled by studying the chapter thoroughly in its proper context. There is not one verse in the Bible that suggests the gifts have ceased. Is there verses that suggest misuse of spiritual gifts? Absolutely. There is however no verses indicating that the gifts have ceased. I used to believe in cessationism myself, but after examining scripture and eventually experiencing the work of the Holy Spirit in my life, I see the view of cessationism as irrational and overall unbiblical.

[@OrenTube70]

Thank you for sharing your blessing and wisdom. Glory to God!

[@andriod090]

Joel 2:28 disproves the gifts have ceased.

[@jayceejm]

Well said. Thank you

[@minjirewambugu7905]

What many people do not know is that pure intellectual powers and spirituality do not often go together ,while the former is grounded on human knowledge and wisdom ,the latter comes from a deep heartfelt desire to experience God ,usually through a humble seeker , human spirit .It amuses me quite a bit every time one of them stands on the podium to condemn the manifestations of the spirit as demonic as if the one true God does not live among his own.

[@michaelmannucci8585]

I am inclined to believe you are lying, because if you’ve watched cessationist debates (such as the ones Brown did with Waldron) you wouldn’t make a false claim that they don’t use scripture.

[@ofeliaclaudio6379]

EXCELLENT, Dr. Brown!!!!! Praise the Lord!!! Your dissertation is SO clear!!! The Holy Spirit surely is the Source! To Him be the glory!

[@nicholasdibari9095]

I find it ironic how cessationists always says “you can’t make a doctrine on your own experiences” yet they hardly use scripture for their false arguments and speak about their experiences

[@chrismassingill4650]

How come all who teach against the gifts seem to do so out of anger?

[@mkaimo]

Dr Zachariades was much more restrained in this debate with Dr Brown than he was against Drs Flowers and Pritchett, Chris. Keep your hand near the volume knob when you watch this kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZfcgKChlqmng8k

[@Anonymouslives]

Chris Massingill oh wow, if you want to see that Theodore zachariades man debate in anger, watch his debate with leighton Flowers. It’s quite awful to watch Theodore act the way he did in that debate with Flowers

[@jasonbaker7284]

I often wonder the same thing. Just know not all believers who attend baptist churches are that way. The way I see it, if we can meet around the person of Christ, we can fellowship. There is no reason for anger. We are all brothers and sisters.

[@chrismassingill4650]

Jason Baker absolutely. I have friends who don't believe in the manifestation of the gifts, but we get along fine. It just seems like most of the cessationist who are hardcore against the move of the spirit are bitter. Apparently they don't believe in the manifestation of joy either. Lol

[@jasonbaker7284]

Chris Massingill It is hard to argue with scripture. If gifts manifest themselves and they stand the test, who am I to deny them? It could be that he is scared they do manifest and he has not received them in the abundance he feels they should, or maybe not at all. I often wonder about myself. I have joy and peace though, so maybe that is all God has for me. I am content with that. I just want to be in His will.

[@yoditgebrezgie9733]

Hooray Dr.Brown!!!!⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ you are spirit filled and word filled. Amazing wisdom and knowledge . Let God give you long life , the longest ever . We need people like you who knows the Word of God with the help of Holy Spirit reviling the true meaning . . And the amazing thing is you don’t get emotional when you are answering . Very humble !!!! GBY more !

[@davidsilveyjr]

Thank you for posting this! I love apologetics, church history, etc. It's so important to know what you believe and why you believe it. The Word and The Spirit.

[@lwiimbokasweshi]

Dr Brown was marvelous, please continue with the great work proff.

[@superdude1759]

Many years ago, when I was in my mid twenties I sat down in a Coco's Bakery Restaurant in San Leandero, California and I heard these two men talking about the Bible. I was excited to meet some fellow Christians so I went over, introduced myself by name and as a fellow Christian and these two men looked at me like they didn't know what to say and I don't remember them saying anything other than trying to back away from engaging in any conversation! I left them alone and they picked up their conversing where they had left off! I went back to my table, sat down and tried to figure out what had just happened! Ok, so you had these two men that were talking about scripture in a familiar way like they studied it, were evidently Christians yet they gave off the perception that they didn't want anything to do with other Christians outside of their little circle! I was stunned! That was the first time that that had ever happened to me since I had gotten saved! Dr. Theodore reminds me of those two guys! He's just like them, full of the words of scripture along with anger and contempt for other Christians, but not much else! He has a form of godliness, but denies the power thereof.

[@IndianaJoe0321]

BigBird1766 -- I feel bad that happened to you. And you're correct -- many believers are rather "cliquey" (or, "cliquish") as if Christianity is some type of social club. Did you know that Dr. Z doesn't even believe that Dr. Brown is saved? Sheesh.

[@johannesvangend2598]

+BigBird1766 do visit my blog www.myhand.co.za and read my article: 'Was Jesus a Jew at Birth? Who fathered Jesus' @ www.myhand.co.za/was-jesus-a-jew-at-birth-who-fathered-jesus/ that is if you really wish to know the truth concerning the gospel message. We are, for sure, still living in the time of the 'falling away', 2Thess 2:1-. This debate is proof; thousands of different denominations and hundreds of Bible translations.

[@scottb4579]

@@IndianaJoe0321 I know it's 10 months later, but where did you learn Dr. Z doesn't believe Dr. Brown is saved?

[@IndianaJoe0321]

From Dr. Brown,@@scottb4579

[@scottb4579]

@@IndianaJoe0321 thanks for reply. I don't know how Dr.Z can justify that.

[@thewatcher3100]

I think we as Christians are missing so much if we haven't listened to Dr. Brown anlalysis of the Holy Scripture and the Gospels. They're so powerful especially for any Christians who has doubts in their Faith regarding the Bible.

[@llllllllllllllIIlIllIIllIIIIll]

Dr.Brown is a champion in Christ, he is correct!

[@npcortezjr]

Dr.Michael Brown's explanation is very clear and 100% based on the Holy Scriptures.

[@salmistalabrada7637]

I wouldn't want this pastor Theodore as my pastor, no way... i can feel Paul's transformed heart full of love and grace, I wish I am wrong, one thing is to be passionate and the other is to be unloving.

[@upashakargurung2324]

Dr. Brown thank you so much for standing for this please read this text if you received this. if we read Mark 9:38 and so on there we find a man who were not even a part of the Apostle yet he were casting out devils which was saw by John and Bible says John even Forbid that man because that man were not among Apostles but Jesus Said, Forbid him not so if this kind of things were to be done only by the Apostles how come that man who were not even among the apostles were doing such thing?

[@sketchbook1]

Why would a manual be written about how to operate a machine or product, which would be immediately obsolete & non-working upon the very publication of the operator's manual?! Entire chapters written in the Bible on how to use spiritual gifts (including the so-called controversial ones), are supposedly never to be actually put to use, because the very gifts the chapters discuss and regulate are no longer extant upon delivery of the letter!

[@robertrodrigues7319]

God bless you DR Brown

[@StephenFendley]

This debate is like Dr Brown answering questions from one of his callers. Haha.

[@John2028Apologetics]

yes!! love you Doctor Brown! cant wait to watch

[@chazsmith4181]

So glad this got uploaded to KZbin. The Facebook livestream was barely audible.

[@theoffensivegamer9943]

Theodore SHOULD NOT DO DEBATES

[@IndianaJoe0321]

Armand Esterhuizen -- agreed. Dr. Z did so poorly that it didn't even feel like a debate. I felt bad for the guy.

[@theoffensivegamer9943]

@@cog4808 why

[@31surprises]

Phenomenal...thank you for sharing this with us!

[@joelsplawn5933]

Dr. T's opening was painful to watch. Such distortion of scripture to shape it into his view.

[@nathanaelhowell6374]

Joel Splawn i have to agree

[@michellem6201]

Wow I thought the same thing it was really painful even spoke to holy Spirit and said is this so true Holy Spirit was very painful and twisted

[@CatfishHeaven777]

Absolutely. How much personal injecting can one do

[@telabib]

You mean he was twisting scripture.

[@septemberstorrie]

I love Dr. Brown's answer about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and how he addresses that. I think that's a wise stance.

[@mihaipana3291]

Goodness...what kind of mental gymnastics you have to do to believe that gifts are done!

[@kathleennorton6108]

Now remains faith, hope and love. The gifts are the fruit of faith and love, and certainly hope. When one is healed, for instance, they certainly have invested hope in that healing, which happens by faith, which works by love.

[@kathleennorton6108]

Bravo, Dr. Brown, Bravo! Praise The LORD Jesus! Hallelujah!!!

[@staceyflores899]

Really interesting debate. God bless both of the debaters.

[@Cometothetable247]

Glory to God

[@stephenwooten6413]

It really hurts to hear any man who knows the word of God, not believe the word of God. If I pray for the sick and they recover I would say I believed the word of God and acted accordlingly. As well, if I pray for the sick and they don't recover I would say I believed the word of God and acted accordlingly. I wouldn't begin to come up with reasons why it didn't happen, such as it must not be for today, because then I would be moving away from truth into experience. Faith's anchor is truth, not experience, let's be moved by what we believe and not by what we see. So experience should never define truth, but truth define experience. Come on God is alive and well, making Himself known through the many sons and daughters He has brought into His Kingdom through His glorious Son, Jesus Christ. We are supposed to follow Jesus, not only in our talking, but our walking. Doctrine is great, the Father didn't send the Spirit to give us doctrine alone, but to conform us into the image of His Dear Son. Funny, we want to do what Jesus said when it comes to preaching, but not healing or any opperation of the Spirit, as if preaching itself is apart from the power of the Holy Spirit and shame of us if it is. Luke 10:1-12 Jesus sends out 72 or 70 disciples and He commands them not only to tell about the Kingdom of God, but to show the Kingdom of God, through the healing of the sick, verse 9. Obey it all, all men have words, but not all have power. Follow Jesus, He's the example of the Father and the revelation of the Father's will, behold I have come to do Your will of God. If Jesus walked by the sick, would He have compassion and heal? Do we follow Him in this example? I say we either deny Him or ourself, I would rather deny myself and my experience and follow Him and His experience in faith expecting the same thereby confirming His Kingdom and His love for the hurting whether they are healed or not. My place remains to walk by faith and not by sight, looking unto Jesus all the way. Great job Dr. Brown.

[@camelliasforjesus9648]

Stephen Wooten well said

[@rubypayne7416]

The word God is for us but not all is to us. We must understand that.

[@rubypayne7416]

What does God say about those who walk by faith and not by sight?

[@stephenwooten6413]

@@rubypayne7416 that they are the just or the ones justified. This is because they believe God in the face of experience, situation or circumstance. Thereby the just say God is faithful.

[@tawandandlovu2505]

So you pray to God for someone to be healed when they are healed you take the credit by saying you healed a man? No brethren, God healed that person.

[@donn07]

I love you Dr Michael Brown, the Great Almighty LORD Blessed you for JESUS'S Glory only, Amen.🙏

[@Anonymouslives]

Dr Brown’s opposition (Theodore) in the debate was often arguing things that Dr Brown was not even claiming, asserting, affirming or mentioning positively in any way. That type of methodology in a debate is not helpful. I think more time would be required with Theodore in a debate to adequately have a meaningful representation of both sides. Maybe I’m wrong though and Theodore was purposefully being intellectually dishonest. Wonderful debate on your end Dr Brown!

[@a.w.hughes6648]

2 ½ hours is long enough no?

[@jeremydavis1267]

Dr. Brown, you the man!

[@jimdandy56jd]

2 Timothy 3:5 (KJV) "Having a form of godliness, but DENYING THE POWER thereof: from such turn away." Isn't Dr. Theodore Zachariades denying "the power"?

[@harrisonlang9218]

1 Corinthians 13:8 ‘Love Never Ends, But, Prophesy will...’

[@DougLayton]

Harrison Lang Yes, but has knowledge ended? See, the three things in II Cor 13:8 will all vanish WHEN Jesus comes again, since we won't need Prophecy, Tongues, or Knowledge in the presence of Christ, because we will know him face to face. Jesus Christ is the PERFECT described in vs 10 of the above chapter.

[@natcyz1993]

@@harrisonlang9218 Yes, they will end when the "perfect" comes. But the qs is, what is this "perfect", the completion of the canon of Scripture, the establishment of the church or Revelation 21-22's fulfillment? I think if we ask ourselves honestly, Revelation 21-22 fits the bill closer.

[@randalwdeese]

Not to be unkind, but Dr. T isn't an exegete. Using one cherry picked passage in 1 Corinthians 13 as a proof-text to support a cessation position is a hermeneutic blunder.

[@TheTruthseeker1231]

Randal, you are correct. If one is going to take one passage like that, then you better back it up with strong support! He tried to use the 1 Peter 1:19 passage to support his take on "the perfect", but (see my comment) this is a self-refuting argument. Sad truly sad.

[@jkirks8]

As a pastor, it’s not a cherry pick. It’s the most logical conclusion of the exegesis of that passage. The point of spiritual gifts is the building up of the church. When will we no longer require building up? When Jesus returns.

[@randalwdeese]

@@jkirks8 No, it actuality violates logic, exegetical principles and sound hermeneutics. It is a novel idealogical conclusion reached by those some in the last 100 years of Church history.

[@jkirks8]

@@randalwdeese brother, I see my mistake. I thought you were defending the cessation it’s position. My apologies. We do agree on that. An absolute hermeneutic blunder.

[@malihehcarter7668]

Amen ,Shalom Dr.Brown we thankYou for Father God for you and your teaching blessings 🙏🇮🇱💜💙

[@timricketts.]

I appreciate the this debate. The fact of abuses are so relevant. I know the gifts are real and active but many times if we don't understand scripture we'll try to discredit what we don't understand. The scripture is both spiritual and literal. If I don't understand scripture does not mean it's not true. I Believe scripture. Thank you.

[@kathleennorton6108]

The gifts work by faith. If a Church doesn't believe in particular gifts they likely will not see them. They will then believe even more strongly the gifts don't operate today, because they haven't seen them. They have become a part of a "self fulfilling prophecy".

[@inTruthbyGrace]

Oh my gosh someone should have called the FIRE DEPARTMENT for that strawman @44:11!!! Did anyone catch Zachariades' *delusional* rebuttal?? how he said "this is standard fair from Michael..three-pronged approach: nature of Kingdom in the gospel, healing from James 5, and bits n pieces from the epistles about the gifts. Number 1 the Kingdom is irrelevant bc the gospels are pre-asscension..and denigrates the uniqueness of Jesus".. Brown did not even _mention_ the Kingdom nor James 5 and *_how on earth or in heaven can it possibly be DENIGRATING to Our Lord and King Jesus to quote HIM???_* This is REPULSIVE behavior on Zachariades part!!!

[@jackpaddock3138]

inTruthbyGrace agreed, but steer clear of words like delusional. Poisons the well a bit

[@TheTruthseeker1231]

Yes, Not only is it is not a compelling argument that Zachariades laid out (despite his voice raising and table thumping) But in fact, it is self-contradictory and self-refuting. Here is his argument 1) first say that 1 Cor 13:10 says that "perfect" means the scripture (which is quite a stretch anyway. Where else does Paul call the scripture the perfect? Word study demands support. Of course, he doesn't give it, because he doesn't have it.) And, 2)Then he quotes 2 Peter 1:19 "We have also a more sure word of prophecy" and says that this verse proves the scripture ends the gift of prophecy because Peter is saying that the scripture is perfect. But, these two passages cannot be referring to the same cannon. Because as follows: First, the New Testament didn't exist at the time that Peter wrote this passage, so if this were the meaning of Peter's statement, then the gifts of the Spirit would have ended BEFORE the canonization of the New Testament Bible. a) Since the NT wasn't completed, Peter would have had to have been referring to the OT. b) So, this means that the cannon would have already been completed at the time of Peter. This is why Zachariades says he doesn't know when the gifts ceased because it can't be when the perfect comes (according to his definition of the perfect in Cor 13:10) because Peter states "we have" therefore Peter is saying that the perfect has already come because "we have' implies that "we already have." Peter doesn't say "we will have" he is saying "we already have!" Conclusion: Therefore if Zachariades' interpretation were true,, Peter and the other Apostles couldn't even receive prophecy to have produced the NT because the perfect had already come. For Zachariades' position is that when the perfect comes then the gifts of the Spirit would end. Therefore the Apostles wouldn't have the gift of prophecy with which to write the NT. Zachariades' by coupling these two passages as premises in his argument has produced an invalid argument because it is self-refuting. Yes, it is amazing how somebody so smart and educated could stumble all over himself trying to support his doctrine over what the bible says. Sadly, this is pure eisegesis.

[@johannesvangend2598]

+Chicken Nuggets one true word Zachariades said, at the end, was, "Read the Bible preferably from the original." Now, Romans 15:16 should have read, "...for my being a servant of Jesus Christ to the nations, acting as priest in the good news of the God, that the offering up of the nations may become acceptable, sanctified by a holy spirit." Joh 7:37-39, too was quoted. It should have read, "On the last and most important day of the festival, Jesus stood up and shouted, 'If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink! The one who believes unto Me, as the Scripture has said, “Out of His belly shall flow rivers of living waters."' Now He said this about the spirit, whom those who were believing unto Him were to receive. For, there was not yet a holy spirit because Jesus was not yet glorified." We are all born with a sin-contaminated spirit because of Adam's sinning and therefore in need of a rebirth; the receiving of a holy spirit. That holy spirit was not yet at the time of Jesus ministry because He was not yet glorified. The morning of Jesus' resurrection He spoke to Mary saying, ”Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'” Later, the same evening, He blew over his disciples and said, according to the original, “Peace to you! Just as the Father has sent Me, I also send you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.” And having said this, He breathed into them, and says to them, 'Receive a Holy Spirit'". It would have been a different debate had both stuck to the original text. The problem they are both of the 'Trinity' philosophy in spite of what is written 1John 5:7-, "Because three are who are testifying for the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these-the three-Each are [Each exist]. And three are who are testifying for the earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are unto the One." The 'Spirit' that testifies for the earth is that spirit one receives at the rebirth event. Moreover, according to Mark 16:16, salvation is a future event. One is not saved yet; see 1Thess 5:7-9 it is at the rapture event saving one from the wrath of the God that follows the rapture event.

[@JH-hx2cl]

Its amazing to listen to a believer trying to convince other believers to believe in unbelief. Cessationist are the foot soldiers of the enemy and dont even realize it. But it is a dying breed to not believe God is moving, healing, and speaking through Gods children. Too many people are starting to step out in faith, too many people have been healed. Itll be overwhelming eventually.

[@Psalm91Covered]

They are 2Tim 3;5 and will point fingers at others as if to say they are of the devil because they believe, have manifested gifts, or have experienced moves of the Spirit, not knowing that they are doing the enemies work.....its the enemy of God that denies His gifts and the power given to the church

[@kevinrobb8367]

Dr. Michael Brown and John Lennox, two of my favorites. They both know their subjects well and just as importantly convey there knowledge in a spirit of love ❤

[@joelfields9807]

The Bible is only hard to understand when people don't like what it says and have to come up with long convoluted explanations to support their unbelief. Dr Browns explanation is clear, contextual, and sound and makes perfect sense.

[@FeyAccion8523]

Dr Brown is one the most underrated debaters "apologist" of our times; perhaps of 21st century. He has also been one of the most consistent defender/debaters/apologist of the last 10-20 years. Though, I have to admit he does the same for trump.

[@277kne]

There is no need for me or anyone to continue watching after Dr. Brown's opening. I don't care for the other guy.

[@VinceCharles_84]

Why would the works of evil be active today but the not God's work of good?

[@kathleennorton6108]

Every time someone is saved Scripture is authenticated. Everyone who has a testimony about how God changed their life by believing in Jesus is duplicating and authenticating Scripture, even as Scripture says we are to do. We are to be living epistles. Our lives are to bring Scripture alive, through it. Scripture is not to remain on its pages, it's to come alive in our lives.

[@worldoutreachministries2644]

Dr. Brown stood on the Word and obvious won the debate . The gifts will continue on down the road until we reach perfection of our new bodies.

[@Telkor]

I like that Mr Zachariades believes that there are tons of "scriptures" that were prophesied and never written down, and then in the next breath makes the argument that the entire scriptural cannon has been delivered and so we no longer need the gifts lol.

[@georgeocomen9312]

Knowledge make a christian puffed up , I agree with DR. Brown.

[@Patriótico-p7s]

It is sad that some believers are dismissing Dr. Zachariades as a “psycho” or implying he’s arrogant. That is an attack on the man, rather than his doctrinal stand. Many a times we defend our convictions and preferences based on church affiliation (whether biblical or not the convictions or preferences may be) rather than God’s Word. I thoroughly enjoyed the debate. My respect to both, Dr. Brown and Dr. Zachariades. I will conclude with the fact that, if we are not mature enough to treat the body of Christ with utmost respect, we will never be able to engage the unbelieving world and effectively point them to Jesus.

[@Th3BigBoy]

Big agree. He is on the opposite side of this from me but it really does seem that the people criticizing him are followers of the niceness doctrine. Passion/zeal isn't hatred or wrath.

[@benjaminpang5028]

Mark 16:17-18 said speaking in tongues and healings will follow the believers. It did not say for a short period time only.

[@ofeliaclaudio6379]

Dr. Theodore, God loves you and would SO like to pour out His Spirit so you can SEE the Truth. If you'd humbly ask Him to speak to you, to show you the LIGHT, you will SEE the Truth! The same Holy Spirit that empowered the early church is the same Spirit that indwells us, wanting to empower you to heal the sick, do miracles, prophesy, teach, etc - whatever the church needs to be edified, as God wills and purposes. God bless you!!

[@gracejoylove]

Beautifully written!😇

[@chrisalive]

One important point that needs to be made and hasn't. Paul's use of the word "teleion", "that which is perfected" (1 Cor. 13:10), has to be studied first in Paul writings to understand its meaning. What does the word "teleion" mean in all other places where Paul uses it? 1 Cor. 2:6 : the term refers to human beings. 1 Cor. 14:20 : the term refers to human beings. Philip. 3:15 : the term refers to human beings. Col. 4:12 : the term refers to human beings. Eph. 4:13 : the term refers to human beings. Col. 1:28 : the term refers to human beings. Romans 12:2 : the term refers to the will of God. Paul never uses this term to describe Scripture. It's nearly always about human maturity or human perfection. Therefore it is clear that, for Paul, what has been perfected, is human nature, when Christ comes. Which is exactly the same argument Paul is making in Ephesians concerning the 5-fold ministry : "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ." (Eph. 4:11-13 KJV) Spiritual gifts just as the 5-fold ministry are meant to edify the saints, unto the perfect man, which is the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. Neither the gifts nor the 5-fold ministry will cease until the saints have been perfected or made complete in Christ. And this will only happen when Christ returns. Then and only then will both gifts and ministries cease because the work will have been completed.

[@johannesvangend2598]

+Christophe Blomme do read Rev 10:7 for it tells when it will happen.

[@chrisalive]

That doesn't tell us anything as no one can know when that will happen.

[@johannesvangend2598]

+ Christophe Blomme did you read Rev 10:7? Rev 10:7, "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of the God should be finished, as He hath declared to his servants the prophets." What 'mystery' will finished/ἐτελέσθη? ἐτελέσθη = 3 pers. sing. aor. 1, pass. of τελέω of which the root word τέλος indicates a full performance. What happens at the 'seventh', the last trumpet? Only then will 1Cor 13:11- be fulfilled. By the way, we know that that spiritual gifts are given, Eph 4:12-, "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of the God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." What Paul is suggesting is that 'love' is a more 'excellent way'; not all of us have 'gifts'. John writes 1John 4:-18-, “There is no fear in the love, but the perfect love casts out the fear, because the fear has chastisement. For the one fearing has not been perfected for the love. We love Him because He first loved us. If anyone has said, ‘I love the God’, and hates the sibling of him, a liar he is. For the one not loving the sibling of him whom he has seen, how is he able to love the God whom he has not seen? And we have this commandment from Him, that the one loving the God should also love the sibling of him.”

[@chrisalive]

Yes I did read Rev. 10:7. It gives no indication regarding the "when". As far as gifts are concerned, every Christian has at least one spiritual gift. 1 Cor. 12:7 "Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good". Each one. 1 Cor. 12:11 "All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines." Each one.

[@chrisalive]

No one knows when the last trumpet will sound.

[@christsforgiveness]

Dr. Brown schooled that dude big time!

[@NickUva]

I have to say the opening segment was tough to get through.

[@svenwalton1332]

It was awful.

[@PrinceDarius777]

Great job Dr.Brown.

[@ericturcott9764]

This is sad that this even has to be a debate. A clear and unbiased reading of Scripture shows that the gifts are still active.

[@TheRealJonathanArdila]

Pray for Dr Theodore Zachariades for the veil to come off

[@patanthony9286]

God gives the gift giving Spirit to those who are humble and have denied themselves by submitting themselves to God, drawing near to God and knowing that God is drawing near to us and has actively resisted the devil and has evidence that the devil has ran away from the one who has submitted to God then the hands can be cleansed and the heart can be purified through mourning, crying and weeping over the sin that separated us from God and when God has lifted us up we will truly be lifted to a life more abundantly

[@thecure728]

Wow so hard to focus with this many ads! I've never watched a video with more ads. Crazy

[@norrisonian]

I gave up Hulu to pay for KZbin with no ads!!!

[@markporter-thechurchhistor6784]

A student at Saint Andrew’s in writing of John Knox coming and teaching the students in 1571 from the book of Daniel,referrers to him as,”that most notable prophet and apostle of our nation”. The gifts of the Spirit will not cease in the church until “that which is perfect has come”-1 Corinthians 13:10.Paul has already told us when that will be in 1 Corinthians 1:5-“…in all utterance and all knowledge…”, “So that you come short in no gift,eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ”-verse 7. The gifts will not cease in the church until the second coming of Christ.This is also confirmed by Paul to the Ephesian church in Ephesians 4:11-“And He Himself(Christ)give some to be apostles,some prophets,some evangelists,and some pastors and teachers”, “till we all come to the unity of the faith”-verse 13.The fact that this very debate has taken place shows that we have not yet all come to the “unity of the faith”,therefore the gifts of the Spirit are still for the church today.Let us not throw out the baby with the bath water.Let us throw out the dirty water,(the abuse of the gifts),but let us keep the baby,(the gifts of the Spirit themselves),Hallelujah 📖✝️😀

[@zerosparky9510]

i thought Dr. Brown won the debate. but probably both sides will claim this and both sides probably won,t move on this. and i thought Dr.Brown,s exegis of scripture was correct. Dr.T. did not exegis of Scripture .

[@adamgrigsby6798]

The Charismatic view isnt that they cease for a little bit..its that they cease when Jesus comes.

[@rubypayne7416]

I came from a charismatic Pentecostal church and never seen the healings like the apostles had.

[@righteousrebelmedia5934]

Very good debate Dr Brown stuck to scripture, the other does everything to twist the Bible to fit his belief. I will stick with Dr Brown

[@mayorrodgers7446]

If I were called to rebut the opening I would literally say, “there is nothing that I have to say there’s nothing It was said addresses the issue before us today.”

[@ericgatera7149]

The Gifts will never cease until we all get perfected in unity of faith and in the knowledge of Christ our God. There is no way to go around it. Eph 4:11 And truly He gave some to be apostles, and some to be prophets, and some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, Eph 4:12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Eph 4:13 And this until we all come into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

[@tonipugh5438]

Perhaps this will interest you: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJeaZnpjna9ojK8

[@neoshiloh7897]

I am blown away by these guys' knowledge of the Word! If I knew a 3rd of what they do, I'd be stomping on the devils head all day!!! But when I think about Dr. Zachariades' argument (the cessationist movement), I'm reminded of 2 Corinth 3:6. I think the Spirit (true understanding of the letter [Word of God]) is lacking. Hahaha wow Dr Brown is hilarious. Powerful closing Dr Brown. Dr Zachariades, I am speechless. You are a gentleman and a scholar. Powerful closing sir.

[@timothyaure9602]

I've had to review my own foundations, not that I was unsure because I've been attending a church that I recently found out whose Pastor defines himself as a "gracious cessationist". I really like the man, his passion and his preaching. I've often said- The original Baptist-John once said : "He (Jesus) must become more and more and I less and less. I believe in the biblical inerrancy of the scriptures of the fundamentalist side and the fullness of the Spirit on the "Charismatic" side of the church. I can have knowledge of who George Washington was but how much better to know him personally. Yes it's impossible, as he's long dead but the Holy Spirit is given that we might know Christ in a personal way. "A friend that sticks closer than a brother" Like walking a mountain ridge one must not error too far to the right or to the left but one must stay on that ridge. Plus on that ridge, one has a greater (higher) perspective. I especially like Dr Brown's thesis and his clear exposition on the topic and the life he lives on the air, in missions and in the ever conflicting cultural debates- speaking clearly, dividing between the joint and the marrow. God Bless all who make these possible as we press on to know Him in the fullness of his Word and Spirit. A great debate for those who are interested in understanding such topics. We are to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth🤔👍😉

[@patrickd.mccallister4723]

I would love to ask Dr. Zacharaides why he concludes that "that which is perfect (mature) is come" must refer to the Bible? How does he come to that conclusion?

[@stanleyivey5302]

I am still waiting for one clear verse to support Dr. T's arguments of the GIFTS cease.

[@voonjohn5803]

lol, obviously there are no scripture can prove it

[@02122_]

You’ll be waiting until Jesus returns my friend

[@stanleyivey5302]

@@02122_ Exactly - the Devil is using his deception in high places

[@pointofdefensewithjohncrawford]

Awesome debare!

[@PreachTheWord1]

You know a person is in error when they post the debate yet block the comment section which Reforrmed America did. All you need to know.

[@JeepDragon0]

I hope people understand that this debate is about gifts of the Spirit, not about miracles in general. It seems as if some of the comments from people who call themselves "non-cessationists" or "continuationists" or whatever like to claim that they have "seen miracles" then use that as an argument against the "cessationist" view. Dr. Zachariades did claim in his opening statement that there is a difference between "miracles" and "miracle workers." I think we need to be careful about just claiming publicly that we "possess spiritual gifts" as if we have the ability to "summon God's power" based on our wills. Jesus did say in John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." That sounds like the Spirit is in control of His own power, not us. Story from a family member: About four years ago, I heard a story of one of my close family members who is one of those Independent Fundamental King James Only Baptist pastors. He visited a hospital where a man was in a coma. As he was talking to the man, he noticed that the heart monitor showed that the man's heart stopped. He began praying to God claiming that God gives second chances to people to get them saved and that he was claiming to God that as a promise. I don't know where he got that idea from, but, anyways, as he was praying and the heart monitor was still flat, the man suddenly woke up from his coma, sat up, took the readers off his body, and walked out of the room. The pastor walked out after him and told him what happened. The man supposedly confessed Jesus as his Savior and joined the pastor's church. The interesting thing is that this pastor, as far as I know him, would probably be considered a "cessationist." Did a miracle happen? I don't know. Maybe, but I wasn't there to see it. I can only go by what my family told me about what he told them happened. If a miracle did happen then it was because the pastor, like the rest of us, had to pray to God and trust Him to do His work, not go around claiming that he possesses God's power and can summon it at his whim. A "miracle healing" that I supposedly witnessed: About three to four years ago, a Hindu girl was working next to me at work. She came in one day and told me that a set of lights that she was hanging exploded in her face and that she fell off her ladder. She showed me some small burn marks on her face, neck, and calf. She told me that it still hurts and that she was praying for healing. I told her that I would definitely pray for her and she acted excited and thanked me. Immediately, I buried my face in my hands at my desk and spent a couple minutes begging Jesus to heal her quickly and to show her that He is the true God. When she walked in the next morning, I asked her how she was feeling and how her burn marks were doing. She told me that she felt fine and that the burn marks were all gone. I could understand how someone who sees something like that could get all "charismatic" about something like that and claim that a miracle happened, but she didn't even act amazed or shocked about it at all. I laughed inside myself and thought about saying, "Don't you realize that I prayed to Jesus to heal you quickly and He did?! Now, trust Him as Lord and Savior!" but I knew that that wouldn't go well with her. Also, as far as I know, she is still a Hindu. Now, I believe that God is sovereign and that He heals people, but, in that case, I don't think a "miracle" happened. I tend to think that it was just the natural healing process, (guided by God, of course, because He's sovereign), but natural. I'd think that if that was supposedly a miraculous healing then she would have acted shocked about it, but, of course, it's not really like she was that badly injured. Even if it was a miracle, I didn't lay hand on her and say "Be thou healed." I prayed to God just like we all need to do to let our requests be made known to Him. Continued in my reply...

[@277kne]

I want to point out what Dr. Theodore Z. mentioned. He was saying that all prophesy is the word of the Lord. And should be in the bible,scripture. Not sure if I got that right. The Epephesians in the book of Acts prophesied and it is not recorded. I have attended many churches in which there had been speaking in tongues and interpretations. Never have I seen or heard anyone judging. And have heard more than 3. There is instructions in Corinthians 12.

[@Dion-r1]

Bless you both Just a general remark Dr. Brown. You said that we should go back to scripture and until we don't have anything explicit we should take it for what it says. But some thing concerning the Christian faith can also be explicitly inferred for example the triune nature of God. There seems to be a difference in the way the spirit manifested itself in church historically speaking. When I'm wrong I stand corrected but if so why do you think that is?

[@svenwalton1332]

If you are insinuating that miracles or the spiritual gifts ceased in history that simply isn't true. You can find miracles and the gifts in operation throughout time and obviously up to the present. Augustine changed his theology moving from a cessationist to a continuationist when he saw over 70 miracles occur in his day. Unbelief, like Dr T walks in is also an issue - there are seasons when men chose to quench the Spirit disobeying what the Bible taught, but that doesn't mean there wasn't always a remnant who believed and practiced what then Bible taught..

[@prettycute5582]

very well said Dr. brown...

[@givethanks6714]

22:48 "Some believe that when Perfect comes it is speaking of Christ, the term is never used of the 2nd coming or of Jesus.." Well, what about Php 3:11-12 " If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect.."The resurrection is when Christ comes, seems like perfect and attaining that is synonymous here. So while Perfect is used in different ways other places, this scripture seems to agree with a positive side that the gifts will not stop until Jesus comes.

[@pamalawyerick2004]

2:08:34- WHY CAN'T EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THE VERY WORD OF GOD! PAUL SAID TO THE CORINTHIANS THAT NOT EVERYONE WILL SPEAK IN TONGUES AND NOT EVERYONE WILL PROPHESY AND NOT EVERYONE WILL DO THIS OR THAT THE POINT IS THAT THE GIFTS ARE NOT FOR EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF THE BODY! THERE ARE BELIEVERS THAT WILL SIMPLY LIVE THE LIFE OF A LAY PERSON YET BE A MEMBER OF THE BODY AND THE GIFT THEY HAVE IS THE GIFT OF HELPS! OR THE GIFT OF ADMINISTRATION WHICH IS WHAT A CESSATIONIST IS! THIS IS NOT AN EITHER OR COMPETITION THIS IS THE BODY OF CHRIST BEING DEFINED BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT CESSATIONISTS REGULARLY ATTACK CHARISMATICS AND TRY TO INSIST THAT THEIR PURPOSE IS NOT LEGITIMATE AND IT'S MY OPINION THAT THE CESSATIONIST HAVE BEEN LIFTED UP IN THEIR INTELLECTUAL PRIDE AND HAVE DECIDED THAT THEY ARE NOW THE ARBITERS OF TRUTH FOR THE ENTIRE BODY AND INSTEAD OF TAKING CORRECTION FROM GOD THEY ARE STILL CONTINUING TO ATTACK OTHER BELIEVERS. IT'S THE CESSATIONIST VIEW THAT IS CAUSING A LOT OF GRIEF BUT I WILL FULLY ADMIT THAT HAD THE GIFTS NOT BEEN ABUSED IN THE FIRST PLACE THE CESSATIONIST WOULD NOT HAVE HAD AN OPEN DOOR! More importantly the church needs to get it together and stop fighting with each other because people are lost and on their way to hell and it is very true that the charismatic church is the one doing the bulk of the evangelizing while the cessationist church is doing the teaching so why can't we just believe that cessationists have the gift to teach and administration and helps and charismatics will operate in the sign gifts.

[@ramoncestero770]

that first pastor is exactly what I imagine Sadducee's to be.

[@zenpapi1185]

Ramon Cestero yeah he’s sadly mistaken

[@robbaysinger5286]

Agreed! I once, many years ago, believed, practiced and taught a similar interpretation. To believe this one must have, IMO, a personality that prohibits individual control of self and beliefs and be indoctrinated into the theology without an honest and simple reading of Scripture.

[@prasenjitbasumatary7596]

I you think it

[@dougovermyer7100]

In Dr. Zachariades opening remarks, he's correct that "gifts" isn't in 1 Cor 12:1... but he's incorrect in his interpretation. The passage isn't about "spirituals," but either "spiritual things" or "spiritual people" or even "spiritual brothers" (which is what the text actually says, although translators insert a comma before brothers). Scholarly arguments can be made for either "spiritual people" or "spiritual things" ... Oddly, scholars don't argue for his interpretation of "spirituals." I believe the evidence supports that Paul is talking about spiritual people who've been given varieties of grace that manifests in gifts, ministries, and activities. I do find it very strange that some people like to apply a line-item veto regarding some of God's varieties of grace. Dr. Brown of course does a wonderful job showing the plain teaching of scripture.

[@davidsubiaruiz1904]

Dr Brown what is your view on Jesus name babtism

[@mcmc2383]

If I'm being honest it seems cessation is just the people who dont have the faith to believe the Holy Spirit can do these gifts in people

[@Константин-и3в3о]

They're jealous tbh. this is my verdict

[@taramartin7878]

You will experience something when you are baptized by the Spirit, being filled with the Spirit. The in-filling, dwelling of the Holy Spirit holds what purpose of there are no gifts and manifestations?

[@JD-yx9fg]

I guess my two part question would be what would it take for Dr. Theodore to accept the positive and following that why are his reasons extra-biblical

[@kallytem9652]

John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.