DR CHRISTOPHER GARDNER AGAINST KETO? - Dr. Westman Reacts

Keto diet showdown! Watch Dr. Westman’s reaction to a leading nutrition researcher’s opinion of keto diets. Who you listen to and what their background is matters!
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Dr. Eric Westman and his Adapt Your Life Academy team are on a mission to empower people around the world to transform their health through the science-backed benefits of low-carbohydrate and ketogenic diets.
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Dr. Eric Westman, Associate Professor of Medicine at Duke. He is Board Certified in Obesity Medicine & Internal Medicine, & founded the Duke Keto Medicine Clinic. He is a Fellow in The Obesity Society. He is the author of The New Atkins for a New You, Cholesterol Clarity, and Keto Clarity, and End Your Carb Confusion & co-founder of Adapt Your Life.
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[@johnny7808]

For most of Gardner's studies he uses local subjects near Palo Alto. Wealthy PhD's are his plant eaters and poor under-educated fast food eaters are his meat eaters. I live here and this is how the local crowd breaks down. The healthy user bias is ridiculous, its no wonder his studies produce the results he likes.

[@jimrutherford2773]

You're exactly right.

[@annebeck2208]

yup so right!

[@karenbole7130]

Yep. Ansel keys manipulated his findings 50 or 60 years ago, and we see ever increasing health issues across all walks of life

[@lucam2942]

Lots of wealthy meat eaters in Palo Alto.

[@axileus9327]

@@lucam2942not relative to unhealthy meat eaters

[@carolynjorgensen1644]

I listened to this the other day. Was not impressed by him. But I’m definitely impressed by Dr Westman and his knowledge.

[@jimrutherford2773]

The interviewer was ecstatic about Gardners answers. Just he wanted to hear. Oh no, this wasn't a one sided interview weighted toward a plant based diet. 😂 Does Gardner eat any animal products? If his answer is no well then it's a bogus interview and shouldn't be taken with any credibility.

[@Mallchad]

so did I. Was very dissapointed. It wasn't that bad or hostile to keto or science or anything. I was just dissapointed how poorly educated both of them were in the topic. Like "ketogenic diets are not well defined". Cmon, he said himself its generally 30-50g of carbohydrates. That's literally the only consistent rule and one way more specific and numeric than litearlly every other diet. No stupid maintainance calorie counting. Just raw grams, less than 50.

[@jimrutherford2773]

Remember, Gardner is at Stanford University so his colleagues and peers are mainly vegan and anti animal products people, and many are animal rights activists. The whole culture in this area is like that and if he were to say anything different he'd be lambasted daily. He'd be excommunicated.

[@wocket42]

@@Mallchad the ketogenic diet is better defined than most academics seem to think. 99% of the definition is already in the first word. it needs to be ketogenic! But not even that definition is followed in many studies. The infamous "keto like diets" come to mind. I'd argue by definition a "keto like diet" is a "non ketogenic diet".

[@makaisenki]

@@jimrutherford2773 Yeah Chris Gardner, he does science, but I don't think he understands science. In some of his studies he P-hacks. He legitimately admits to p-hacking but I'm not sure if he knows what that means. Which is fair. There's probably about 1 million of us in the US that know the word p-hacking and 90% of them learned it from the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe podcast.

[@annettestephens5337]

I find the whole Zoe team hugely biased towards plant based diets. They appear to think more highly of the microbiome than the person who owns it. I have terrible IBS symptoms if I eat fruits, grains, seeds etc.

[@jenniferbowerman2573]

I remember listening to Tim Spector ( I think he heads up Zoe), telling his life story. It turned out that he discovered he had insulin resistance. He has discussed a few times on Zoe podcasts what he eats, largely heavy duty grains and vegetables.I too am insulin resistant, became full blown diabetic, before going strict keto, and now increasingly ketovore, eating mostly meats and eggs. I agree with you, the Zoe team does emphasize plants and veggies at the expense of decent blood sugar readings. People have no idea that they may be insulin resistant until they get sick and begin tosuspe t that their metabolic system

[@sylviaking8866]

I developed a leaky gut from antibiotics. One thing I accidentally found really helps heal the gut is chicken liver pate. (homemade) The nutrients in it really help heal the gut lining. It may help you. I make it and then eat just a little each day. How are you with dairy as I also found eating White Mountain Bulgarian yogurt really healing for dysbiosis as it has 99 billion CFU per cup. Hope this help you.

[@annettestephens5337]

@@sylviaking8866 Thank you for your story and info. I did find homemade natural thick yogurt very healing, but after a while I became hooked on the yogurt and it was messing me up. I’m better off with fatty meat and eggs. This way means I don’t seem to get cravings and can give my guts a good rest when not eating (intermittent fasting. I did once have a phase of buying chivken livers from Waitrose until I discovered that they were from corn fed birds.

[@sylviaking8866]

@@annettestephens5337 you are so welcome.

[@reimaravalk7679]

Good point, Annette. basing your diet mainly on plants if you have ibs is not going to improve your ibs symptoms. the keto diet might even be beneficial. it worked for me as a post infectious ibs patient.

[@happyeveryday13]

I am more satisfied on Keto than I ever was eating unlimited carbs!

[@saxgirlhornboy6458]

Gardner's amateurish interview on Zoe was so maddening when I first heard it that I hoped Dr. Westman would have an expert retort to set the record straight. Hallelujah! 🎉

[@eastafrica1020]

At week two, my fasting blood sugar dropped from 19 to 6.9. Keto is very sustainable. It is my new lifestyle from now on. In South Africa, where I am from we call it Banting.

[@christopherspavins9250]

Interesting, you call it Banting Diet.

[@scasny]

And i was concern at 5.8 now i am at 4.4 but grandmother from mother side have diabetes and father have starting one so its mostly superstition and prevention. Also try to stay under 50g as base, under 100g as max on cheat food/treat and under 20g as goal.

[@nameofthegame9664]

That’s kinda cool because we call it “Banta” in Sweden.

[@carolynjorgensen1644]

I’ve been keto, since 2019, reversed, diabetes, lowered my thyroid medicines, lowered my blood pressure medicines, I lost 75 pounds, I’m 73 years old, almost 74, and other than the fact that I have atrial fabulation which is controlled at this time, I feel really good. I wish I had started it along time ago.

[@ukelilly]

Hi. What is your weekly meals like ( the 2 meals for a week). Like some new ideas for a routine. Thanks and those are great results.

[@maryford7435]

When you follow your way of Keto, you not only lose weight, but you also feel amazing. My last check up my doctor was amazed, down over 100 pounds, 65 years old. The only medicines I take is thyroid, I am sure of course, after all the yoyo dieting, all my life did damage to my thyroid. My doctor said keep up the great work, my only regret is not starting in my 20's

[@robyn3349]

Thank you, Dr. Westman. I heard some of this Zoe video lately. So disappointing. You set it straight! (When he said he could NOT live without croissants! Can you say 'addict'?)

[@jobrown8146]

When I told my daughter about cutting carbs she said oh I couldn't live without bread. There are many foods that I didn't think I could live without, but I tried it, remitted my diabetes, gained various other benefits and it will be my 2 year anniversary in mid Oct 2023!!! The amazing thing is that I no longer crave the foods that I used to love.

[@ActivateMission2ThisTimeline]

Dude needs testosterone so bad...

[@lowellcrabb151]

Carb addiction is real.

[@catcan221]

So right. I am a recovering carb addict. 😂

[@maryannehill8821]

Professor Gardener NEEDS to read Dr Westman and Amy Burger’s book: Cut your cabs confusion. Then he’d get the picture! 😊

[@tonyezolt4560]

I highly doubt that he'd get it. He doesn't want to get it...that's clear.

[@unitedintraditions]

As someone who suffers from Hyperinsulinemia, it's not about calories in calories out...I was down to 1200-1500 calories a day with little to no energy during my resistance training and HIIT and still gaining weight. Keto has been the best for my Hyperinsulinemia. Sometimes our hormones interfere with the calories in calories out model

[@Mallchad]

yeah, it turns out when you have an exess of energy in general both you and your body are incentivised to do stuff and waste energy for material gain. I think from what I've read fat is particularly remarkable in this reguard because it will do more something called thermogenesis when you eat fat. Thermogenesis is where you fat burns itself to generate heat to warm you up. also encourages fat delivery to your muscles, etc. Calories may matter thermodynamically but in the body it's kind of junk

[@micks336]

Ooooh I love that. "Sometimes the hormones interfere with the calories in the calories out model."

[@honkytonk4465]

​@@micks336always!

[@btudrus]

"Sometimes our hormones interfere with the calories in calories out model" Not sometimes. Every time....

[@NielsSHansen]

Weight can be many things, it can be unprocessed food, retained water, and, if course muscle, bone and tissue. But you cannot gain weight without something being added to your body, if not a caloric surplus, then it has to be retained water or something else, or you were just not aware of snacks that compromised your diet. You cannot gain weight without consuming that weight somehow, this is not just about nutritional science, this is the laws of physics. You cannot make energy from nothing.

[@Karen-Campos]

Dr Westman, you are so gracious & objective. All I heard from that interview was “anyone who reduces carb intake below 50g is crazy”. I didn’t hear any conclusive findings from the study except giving up your favorite carb to improve your health is not a choice you should make. Lots of opinions here.

[@susanmitchell259]

I can feel the love from doctor westman. he is such a loving human being.

[@tobe2btobe]

Absence of fruits? What about blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, tomatoes. I eat those in small quantities and do just fine.He's right about needing to find a menu for which you are going on to permanently. This is what I did. Keto for Life.

[@winsomecohall2250]

What is your menu like ?

[@alancameron6937]

Raspberries are an oxalate bomb !

[@ActivateMission2ThisTimeline]

​@@alancameron6937Just eat a few m8xed with other berries

[@3buzzy]

Nightshades, including tomatoes, can be detrimental to many people’s health.

[@AndreAngelantoni]

I would blow up like a balloon if I ate 400g of carbs per day.

[@ActivateMission2ThisTimeline]

When I walk through the grocery store I will think of this...

[@alansawesomeketoworld4612]

Interesting, I have been doing the under 20 carbs a day for 5 yrs and think I eat a lot and have great foods

[@scasny]

Great food meaning cooked meat and nothing else, i also try under 20g and essentially cant eat any vegetables at reasonable quantities. Except spices only vegetable i eat is mustard, raw onion, garlic and olives.

[@funkfamily4165]

Gardener lost me when said weight loss on keto can be attributed to basically" I'm tired of eating"

[@mariad1151]

Lol must be a skinny-folk thing...👍

[@Mallchad]

That was just wild speculation I'm honestly really dissapointed and offended he said that. and as if you'd go into deep into get just because you're bored and miraculously decide with no other input that 0 carb is the way... Like keto flu doesnt' exist or anything... Also happens from calorie restriction

[@wocket42]

@@MajesticArtimus "suppression of hunger" sounds so negative. It's the suppression of appetite after nutritional requirements have been fulfilled.

[@Sanholomc]

On keto you eat when you are hungry and because you stay full for long periods you eat less

[@funkfamily4165]

@@Sanholomc Yeah, that's part of it ... satiety

[@maxsweetman6341]

Thanks once again dr Westman I watch many videos opposing keto and could be a little confused but when I watch you debunk these videos helps reinforce my conviction of how good a keto lifestyle is for a healthy body My body is my proof that a keto lifestyle works

[@jimmckay2337]

Almost 7 years doing keto and I feel great. Weight loss is one thing and the lack of being sick daily is a bigger thing. No more joint pain from arthritis and no more digestive problems. I eat mostly meat and some vegetables. Why do some people hate on it so much?

[@saxgirlhornboy6458]

It's people like you who give keto a good name. 🏆

[@bellaluna730]

Because eating dead animals is 🤮

[@Avhenian42]

Did you have OA or RA?

[@jimmckay2337]

@@Avhenian42 I had RA, like my mother. I no longer have it.

[@mattm1686]

Because they don’t want to change and justify their crap diet

[@weeb9332]

I just don’t listen to any of the nay-sayers as I am 100 lbs lighter and way happier on keto than anything I have done. So is there really anyone out there that can tell me with a straight face that I am not healthier after eliminating twinkies, Zingers, candy bars, doughnuts and no nutrition processed food? I don’t count calories. I am allergic to wheat and corn so tell me again that giving up the grains that I shouldn’t eat (but love) is dangerous for me. I feel 100x better on keto. I have more energy, my asthma is minimal, the bleeding psoriasis sores that prescriptions did nothing to resolve, are now gone except for the largest one which is finally fading. The Keto I use focuses on eating real meats and vegetables. People can tell me what they will but it won’t change my results. My biggest critic is a roommate who has uncontrolled diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, kidney issues and a heart stent and lives on nothing but sugar, starch and processed food. I have none of those issues.

[@tammyday9389]

Keep up the ball! Sounds like you're definitely on the right track. 😊

[@jimrutherford2773]

I have been on a keto or low carb diet for about 20 months now and i lost 40 pounds, all joint pain is gone, feel 30 years younger, and never felt btter in my adult life but the paid off by big pharma clowns keep telling us we're doing it all wrong. Humans have been eating the way I do for two million years. Not 100 years.

[@tonyezolt4560]

"My biggest critic is a roommate who has uncontrolled diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, kidney issues and a heart stent and lives on nothing but sugar, starch and processed food. I have none of those issues." Isn't that amazing? I'm finding the exact same thing. The folks you would think would see the benefits the most, even after seeing my results in only three months (T2D to 5.2 A1C and BP from 145/85 to 128/80) get horribly mad when you tell them anyone can do this. I eat like a champ and I'm down to my high school weight of 180 lbs (all muscle). The human psyche is very strange.

[@jenniferbowerman2573]

In my experience, grains, fruits and beans (and vegetables)do horrible things to my blood sugar. At 76, I am in ketovore/carnivore for the rest of my life. It’s very sustainable for me! This guy didn’t study me.

[@Mallchad]

Me too. I'm honestly not convinced whole grains are any better for your blood sugar than refined sugar, in fact it might be slightly worse in some ways. Every time I research up about it all I can find is evidence of the human body being insanely fast at digesting starch, and digesting it into glucose in the saliva/mouth, before it even is swallowed. When I look at studies the impact on blood glucose, the rate at which it hits you blood sugar is precisely indentical, with bread and rice having effects within margin of error. Pure detroxtrose is cited as being 12% hgher blood glucose -.- shocking.

[@mabelheinzle2275]

67 yo thriving on carnivore/ keto

[@positivelysimful1283]

The way they talk about grains though, people always bitch at me about grains and I need grains and whole grains are healthy and grains grains grains. What did people do before agriculture (even during)? They tried to get meat/dairy, but would settle for fruits & grains when they couldn't. What did cultures do in cold or desert climates where plants were scarce? They hunted and fished and ate every part of the animal, they didn't have a Walmart on the corner to grab a salad. So many impoverished cultures where people live on mostly grains are /malnourished/ for a reason. People are so obsessed with their grains, there is no such thing as a need for grains in the human diet. There's no such thing as an unprocessed grains, there are just some more processed than others. There's no such thing as a healthy grain-- there are some healthier than others, but ultimately even the best grains do at least as much harm as potentially good. No one needs grains. Grains are optional.

[@tammyday9389]

Or, as Dr. Peter Osborne says, grains just need to be avoided completely.

[@hermannschmidt9788]

YES!

[@No_Frills_Carnivore]

💯

[@ActivateMission2ThisTimeline]

It's theGM0modsAndTheChemicalsSprayed0n them that makes them even more toxic.

[@nanettetredoux7613]

So much respect for Dr Westman!

[@CgKraig50]

Love Zoe. My A1C dropped from 12-5.1 lost 70lbs in a year and reversed 10 years of type 2diabetes

[@jobrown8146]

If you learn that you can remit diabetes by cutting the carbs, and then you try it and it works then bread, pasta, rice, wheat, potatoes, fruit, highly processed foods etc, then your view of those foods changes. The fact that cutting them out reduces/stops you craving those foods is a huge bonus. And the other benefits of changing what you eat provides motivation to stay with that way of eating. I've lost 22.5% of my starting weight without trying, lowered blood pressure, better quality sleep, arthritis pain is minimal. We each have to find what works for us. It doesn't hurt to try low carb to see what benefits you gain. If you don't like it, then you don't have to continue with it. I was surprised at how quickly my diabetes was remitted. In 2 weeks' time I've been low carb for 2 years!!! And there are no regrets. Bread, meh! I actually prefer my chaffles. I don't even miss green peas which I used to love.

[@Avhenian42]

Do you have osteoarthritis or RA?

[@grilsegrils9330]

I didn't use to like green peas that much. But my wife has started to make some good ones, from frozen bag with ample amounts of butter, some pepper and salt. The butter makes a huge difference. As I have aged I have started to like sweet potato. And I like broccoli and carrots less than before. I still love cauliflower, which is also a very healthy vegetable. I have noticed some blood pressure drop eating cauliflower. But then again I'm on a low dose potassium restraining blood pressure pill. I dropped it from 8 mg to 4 mg recently as I have these dizzy spells when I crouch and stand straight up.

[@jobrown8146]

Osteo @@Avhenian42

[@jobrown8146]

All potatoes are very high carb veggies. Peas and carrots both have a lot of carbs. @@grilsegrils9330

[@hermandejong4309]

Yes I recognize the addiction in their bread. I thought the same way and couldn't imagine not having bread twice a day.... But it was no problem for me. I transited on an all-in vacation at a hotel that served lot of meat ( even goat but also lots of fish ) and so I could walk by 3 times a day and take meat with some green vegetables. I soon found out eating twice did not leave me craving for lunch so that was easy. I loved the omelet (no bread) and kept that in for a while. And after 2 weeks I normalized my blood-pressure which was my goal so no medication. 8 years later at 71 I still live in my non adapted house with a staircase that I can go up without even thinking while I was worrying about the arthritis in my knees an hips.... I was also worried about my shoulders at sleeping, I had to turn on the other shoulder so much that I was loosing sleep over it, but that is gone to.

[@marynayna6327]

Love your story, I’m 73 and have had so many health improvements over the last 3 years but that night time shoulder pain hasn’t left me yet.👍

[@hermandejong4309]

@@marynayna6327 My shoulder pain started when I had an accident where I broke my L. collar bone and was forced to sleep only on my right side for 6 weeks. Then 6 weeks later to recover from that I had to avoid the right shoulder and it just went bad on both sides without recovering. That was about 30 years ago. It only bothered me at night while sleeping on my shoulders. I didn't hurt otherwise. It seems that these are auto immune diseases that are partly random and become chronic by mostly the four grains or cereal that have the same 5 poisonous proteins that mess with the gut lining cells and make the gut leaky repeatedly. Sometimes it keeps going by traces of wheat or barley or rye or oats (even beer, wine doesn't do that). Even sausages, hamburgers, liver/pate can have traces of "modified starch" that can continue the gut to leak and the immune-system to continue in the alarm state. I think you could maybe hear what Dr Natasha Campbell - McBride has to say about the leaky gut problems and solutions. Good luck....

[@johnthomas8731]

❤❤❤❤ I learn and get healthier as a result of your videos. Thank you Doctor. 😊

[@lloydbeebe-tl6fz]

Dr. Westman is the know all about the Keto diet, more knowledgeable then all the quacks who try to debunk Keto. Met him in person at a low carb conference, great very very knowledgeable & extremely good person.

[@emmagregory6596]

It is really amazing how protective people are when it comes to the thought of giving up bread! Something that is really not tasty unless you dress it up with something else and also devoid of any worthwhile nutrition. I do think it must have an addictive quality like sugar and coffee

[@paulcampbell840]

I now view carbs as the padding out of a meal to fill a plate and, fill you up without feeding you nutrition. Bread, pasta, potatoes, rice - all pretty tasteless and free of real nutrition until you add foodstuffs to give flavour. Sugar is sweet, but the addiction and cravings soon pass.

[@wocket42]

But think of all those "complex carbs" in the brown bread! Some of them are not even meant for you, but your carb addicted microbiome. You need to keep that happy/addicted.

[@marygoodman9662]

It does! Just like opioids!

[@mattm1686]

Bread tastes like nothing do not miss it

[@ActivateMission2ThisTimeline]

When we go out we eat the fresh bread with tons of real butter. We had to bring the butter as many restaurants give you pretend butter but call it real. I called for the manager at one place and told him this is not real. He agreed and then I asked him to teach the staff the truth.

[@mads577]

I started having a lot of wheezing at night ..this totally disapleared after I started Keto! Keto is best!

[@tusker4954]

Really interesting! Zoe via Tim Spector is what got me interested in this whole subject but it was Gardener that made me a bit sceptical as I have been keto for about a year, lost 100 lbs put my diabetes into remission ( large dose of insulin no longer needed) still trying to lose a bit more fat… (stubborn visceral fat)

[@cassieoz1702]

I've become sceptical of the whole Zoe project

[@paulcampbell840]

I see a lot of the diet strategies as a toolkit keep improving our health. Keto allows your body to operate in a fat burning mode, but low-carb should too (perhaps intermittently) unless like you (with diabetes) your metabolism has been destroyed by high carb industrial food, drug and "healthcare" industries. Intermittent fasting - one or two meals each day within a time restricted eating window is another powerful tool to add. Just reduce the window gradually to get where you want to be. That opens the door to a longer fast. OMAD is virtually a 24 hr fast, but varying the eating time can ease you into a longer period without food. Two or three day fasts a few times each year are said to be very beneficial. Cold therapy also seems to helps you get into another fat burning mode (thermogenesis), helping to shift those extra pounds. Eating some seasonal foods (vegetables) is probably more a longer term goal when weight and metabolic balances have been restored.

[@paulcampbell840]

@@cassieoz1702 I think I saw one where they basically said different people seem to do well with either their mainstream carb-centered calorie restricted diets cutting out processed foods, or with their version of a slightly lowered carb diet. Since they didn't properly go low carb, and nowhere near keto, I saw it more as a rearguard action to defend high carb diets when so many of us are getting visibly outstanding results with low-carb and keto. Nearly everyone fixing their bodies with keto or low carb has already been damaged by the low-fat diets they advocate.

[@graphicmaterial5947]

So the ketogenic diet doesn't work unless you stick to it? I agree. It's like Andreas Eenfelt's shower analogy, it doesn't work - you get dirty again after a while! Haha!

[@humairajamil4174]

What an amazing and informative video ... I am a new follower of a very low carb lifestyle and have already regained my confidence over the uncontrollable hunger and mindless huge binges that I succumbed to eversince starting my menopause transition five months ago.. in any case to each their own.... but I feel huge gratitude whenever I see a video that explains the fallacy of all the traditional dogma out there perpetrated by seemingly qualified people ... the whole thing could be so confusing for ordinary folks who are in the thick of their problems and desperately looking for answers ... thank you once again Dr 🎉🎉🎉

[@acrane653]

"Can we go lower? Can we go lower?" How about we just look at the nutrition of foods? When I learned that grains are practically devoid of any nutrition and cause inflammation and major health problems, the bread and croissants no longer were such a temptation to me. It's been fascinating to see what my body is like when eating as clean and nutritionally healthy as possible.

[@IonTrone]

daily reminder: gardner & sonnenburg's own studies showed that high fiber did not really help with the gut biome (but fermented foods helped). See Sonnenburg's visit to Huberman for that discussion.

[@philthompson1097]

"I am personally opposed to it" - so I look forward to seeing his conflicts of interest declared in his publications.

[@karenbole7130]

Im carnivore 3 years and have no desire to change anything, even more so after hearing these two.

[@rebeccahale322]

Thank you Dr Westman as this eliminates my wasting time with another misinformed "exoert" I trust your very informative videos..

[@az10sbum1]

The "keto started with treating epileptic children" seems to be a mantra with vegetarian oriented influencers. The goal seems to be to make keto an odd diet choice that would only make sense for certain exotic diseases.

[@scasny]

Funny as they sort of forget that most food allergies are from vegetables mainly nuts and grain. Only meat related alergie is shellfish and dairy. But dairy is mostly about genetics and lacking enzymes then alergie.

[@audreywalker2601]

That Doc @ ZOE would kill me as I am allergic to peas and beans and he thinks I need it to be "healthy"😢😮 Wow, I have been on the Keto diet now for about 1 year, lost 55 lbs, reduced my A1C and fasting glucose to normal levels and completely converted my Physician to this diet. She has lost to date about 40 lbs (noticeably) as yes we are healthier for it!

[@Mallchad]

Beans are so toxic it shouldn't even be considered an allergen >_>

[@angelinahemphill1960]

I am always very impressed with your videos.

[@Emily-eg6gy]

I am 62 look and feel great - I’m staying with the lovely Dr Westman

[@karlpearson8908]

Thank you for reviewing this I’ve been hoping you would do it I saw this awhile ago and I was confused by it He appears to me to be very condescending

[@wocket42]

"it really is healthiest to have carbs and fats burning together". *the Randle cycle enters the chat*

[@cassieoz1702]

If the high fibre, plant heavy thing works for you, great! I just NEVER see any of their team (which includes an American gastroenterologist) acknowledged that it makes some folks worse, NEVER acknowledge the issue of food/carb addiction. Plenty of talk about folks who do keto poorly but NEVER a mention of sarcopenia/osteopenia/mood disorders in the plant -heavy community who do the diet poorly. Dont trust anyone who throws the concept of 'balanced' diet around to shut down discussion. Very one-eyed.

[@ArchieArpeggio]

There has just been so much of unexpected health improvements after starting my keto lifestyle that i don´t really miss the carbs. It´s not worth of eating carbs and getting worse health and have back those problems. I prefer my health instead. I don´t give a damn what Gardner thinks becouse i know he´s wrong. Well, i´m glad that i have that choise to choose what i consume and what i don´t.

[@ExtraSubtle]

Bart Kay showed that Gardner struggles with basic biochemistry.

[@shirleyw5544]

One of the most helpful interviews thus. Thank you!

[@annebeck2208]

please, please talk more about the history of Keto! I would love too a post titled the oldest diabetc diet!

[@ogeoge6000]

Love all your videos, thank you.

[@stanleymcintyre8100]

Prior to having sugars which is really not that long ago, the odd bee hive, fruit in season we were most likely in ketosis most of the time, in the past we did not have food available every day. People had to go long periods of having very little food, so forced to fast

[@Mallchad]

even if you're eating huge amounts of carbs you'll still be in partial ketosis, its unrealistic for animals in the wild to get their hands on so much sugar they can completely disable their ketone stores. Especially since all mammals have a high proportion of fat/fibre and protein in their diet.

[@keto4life458]

I am really enjoying your talks. I find you to be the most down to earth and reliable source for keto. Can you come to OC, CA to get a keto meeting going for our area? I need the support.

[@jalmuddd]

Dr Gardner sure does not seem to view low-carb diets with any objectivity... Does this mean his research on that topic is suspect? Dr Westman is great... Totally objective... Always charitable with his interpretations of other views...

[@chuckleezodiac24]

Dr. Gardner is a Berkeley hipster Vegan. of course, you can trust him to be unbiased.

[@Mallchad]

He tried to study ketogenic diets fairly but keeps on being trounced by the realities of testing humans and their nutrition :D he got volenteers to eat food delivered to them and most of them admitted they refused to eat the food. He's biased yes but does not mind plant based ketogenic. He's just not very knowledgable about ketogenic metabolism

[@pointshealthcoaching8474]

It seems like the more ppl study a subject, the more they put in their own version of how stuff works... I'm glad I'm not that smart, lol. I know the ketones I make serve me well, and when I come out of ketosis, that also serves my biology well, as I trust the ancient wisdom of my physiology to tell me if I need more or less fat vs more or less protein... I still eat some winter squash and fresh lemon in my tea & that's enough for me. Thank you so much Dr W, I always learn from your videos!

[@gstlynx]

Thanks Doc.

[@richardgodfrey9838]

I’d be interested to know where Chris Gardener gets his funding from! Mainstream food industry probably which has been driving the low-fat model since 1977 in the US and 1983 in the U.K. There has been an exponential rise in the incidence of diabetes and heart disease which can be traced back almost exactly to those years.!!

[@mabelheinzle2275]

Thank you Dr Westman

[@motivationenthalpy9665]

Good video doc. Thanks again. 👍

[@miazagora]

Grains are terrible for people - especially American wheat. I think it's a little different in Europe. Also beans hurt my stomach so much that I stopped eating them long ago.

[@bert_buikema]

Why are these people always whining about 'the science' about the keto diet? Where is the science about the 'balanced diet' or the 'plant based diet'? There isn't any.

[@nataliajimenez1870]

And Dr Westman is uniquely qualified to respond to their claims because he has been the lead author of the first modern studies about the effectiveness of the keto diet and has been carefully monitoring patients for the past 20 years. The surgeons at Duke send him their patients that are waiting for heart and liver transplants so they can have better blood glucose numbers and reduce their visceral fat through keto to increase the chances of success of their transplants. He's not dealing with the cases of people with slightly elevated blood glucose levels but severely ill people. And his strict keto protocol has succeeded

[@tomandersen7343]

Thank you Eric :)

[@DrAJ_LatinAmerica]

Yes, weight loss phase, maintenance phase AND we have to have a weight gain phase for high performance athletes (say powerlifters, strongman competitors and rugby players or NFL players who need to gain 50 to 100 lbs of body mass to gain a extra $20 million in their contract or to get their first contract). All about context. Everyone has a different "Why".

[@IonTrone]

let's get Dr Westman on Huberman to help educate the masses and the doctors too :)

[@stevelanghorn1407]

Trying to get my head around all this!

[@24bellers20]

Doubtless Zoe will want a poop sample and sell you their glucose monitor and a “ tailored diet”. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@davidr1431]

Dont forget the six monthly blood tests, and no follow up poop test to see if your biome has actually changed.

[@mabelheinzle2275]

Three years keto/ carnivore diet and I love it and my health is GREAT

[@pamsnowberger1129]

Calories in calories out is so last century 😂

[@mingkee27]

I had such thought once, but I focus more on fixing my problem and keep it off.

[@zebonautsmith1541]

Humans were never meant to have blood sugar spikes. We were never meant to need anything but the smallest smattering of carbs as in vegetables.

[@DieKellerei]

This video was my reason to finally stop following zoe on youtube. At first I thought the two were fun, but no, unfortunately it turned out to be serious. The mocking-ironic guy who is unbearable, in his poorly played ignorance, and the clumsy stereotypical professor who refutes himself with every sentence. I am still horrified by what has become of this, I thought, serious source of nutritional knowledge. Did someone from Loma Linda secretly buy them??? Thank you so much, Dr. Westman, for your excellent Work!!!

[@loriwyoming835]

I'm a recovering carb addict who was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic. Following a strict ketovore diet for 1 1/2 months I am now not a diabetic and l'm on the road to losing my excess weight. My stomach bloating, gerd is gone as is my chronic diarrhea. I'm not going to worry about a damn slice of bread when I have these results.

[@robertspinks835]

Well I’ve just had my second CAC score and one artery lost the calcium it was a 2 now there’s none another stayed at 25 and the third increase by 40 but that was expected as I have been getting leaner and fitter no new lesions either. Mainly keto animal based with cooking in tallow, Ghee and butter.

[@wocket42]

"no new lesions either." good for you!

[@keepernod2888]

If you only count total carbs, you might as well do carnivore diet at that point. Salads have a lot of fiber.

[@musthavecoffee509]

Brilliant

[@yanetcortes2437]

On keto for 1 year, my labs are perfect !! Fasting 18 hours daily !! Feel amazing !! working out 6 x week and Lot of energy

[@rebeccacarraway480]

“It’s not sustainable” is such horseshite.

[@marcusryder95]

Are you still on a keto diet now?

[@LWT1331]

Again I must applaud you for being critical of the phrase "well, that's normal, so it's not a problem..." If everything we do is "normal" (i.e. not a problem) then why is obesity, heart disease, etc. such a huge issue in the world today?

[@hermannschmidt9788]

I do not get thrown out of Keto when I eat only meat! I measure my Ketones regularly with the Keto Mojo device and nothing like this happens. The value goes lower, sure, but I am still in it. I am somewhat upset that Gardner promotes such nonsense.

[@jamescalifornia2964]

I am considering purchasing a Ketone meter ...

[@Mallchad]

eh. ketosis is a sliding scale with 2 parts. More glucose/protein means less ketones, and vice versa. More energy demand means more detones (its shockingly high during execise, upto 2x blood concentration). The part of ketogenic diets most people care about is the low-insulin fat burning metabolism, not ketones. Ketones may or may not just be an nice alternate fuel source that limits glucose need. it baffles me how uneducated even ketogenic doctors are about this stuff. It's always in obscure buried papers. For the record I generally do not care much about ketones on a day-to-day basis, only my long-term goals. Low-insulin is what you want, your body will take care of the rest, it doesn't need micromanaging unless you desperately want to avoid vascular damage, cancer and seizures at all costs for some reason.

[@chremis]

Well said Dr. Westman, It was also instructive at the beginning when the Zoe host said the professor was on the Zoe board...not exactly unbiased interviewing...I've seen a few Zoe interviews...I always find them weird and abrasive, as a low carb / real food guy like me

[@daniellee7108]

It seems to me that the main thing you learn on keto is that you have control over your hormonal system. You can use it strictly to lose weight, and then eat strategically. So I can eat rice with chicken at dinner tonight, and then fast until tomorrow night to burn them, or I can eat some yoghurt and keto granola for lunch. I can fast 18 hours and eat eggs and bacon for my first meal, and then have salmon and veggies for dinner. Isn't the important thing to understand metabolic flexibility?

[@wocket42]

I'm not sure if it is important, because it's very difficult to judge the limits of your metabolic flexibility. You don't want to consume carbs beyond your glycogen stores, because that's what gets the liver into problems. But eating rice will do that, if you didn't empty the stores before. So you would have to empty your glycogen stores before eating rice. Not sure if making it so complicated is healthy. metabolic flexibility is just something people made up to have an excuse to eat carbs they don't need.

[@daniellee7108]

I should have said this works for me. For me, making it complicated is is being afraid of a potato once in awhile. @@wocket42

[@twiggyfitness6642]

So glad I dropped the bread, pasta, and rice. I feel so much better.

[@missyleonis]

Ive got hoshimotos. It caused severe reactive hypogkycemia and fir me to become morbidly obese. Im a 5'2 f, 37 years old. Ive been dong internet not prwscriptiin keto almost 2 years now with if. Ive been baby stepping changes almost 3 years now. My start weight was between 260-270 poubds im now hovering just below 130 and still losing at maintenance cals i started about 2 weeks ago. I had to wean down carbs. I started with a 50g net limit. When i started maintenance cals i also started a below 20g net limit. Some days my total also is below 20g and otgers its closer to 30. Still losing weight with msintenance cals but its likely from excersise and trying to tone up and build muscle to help lost skin elasticity. Im at higher end of a healthy weight but still have some visceral fat i need to burn so not frwaking out at all. I do not intend to ever stop with keto. I have loads of yummy recioes for meals, desserts, snacks, ect. I mean a 3 ingredient crustless cheescake madecwith protuen powder, cottage cheese, and egg is really yummy. Chips or fries made from air fried diakon radish or rutabega or turnip are nice to have. And tonighrs supper had some legumes in the form of green beans. I did beef kidney, onion, green beans, animal fat, grated cucumber, and red curry seasoning with a side of sharp cheddar. Totally yummy, didnt miss the rice, noodles, mashed potatos, or naan. Breakfast was a smoothie using cacao nibs, frozen blueberries, alvacado, animal fat, tempeh, and a home made yogurt like product made with 1% milk. I paired with water sauteed beef kidney for added protien. Think steak and a smoothie. So that meal had fruit in it. Im sorry, but i think ive got quite a bit of versatility in my diet and am perfectly fine mixing and matching carbs to eat what i freaking like. I can constantly mix and match seasonings, meats/protuens, fats, carbs as i see fit and avoid food burnout. Im cureentky on a curry kick, but ive gone on stir fry/asian food kicks, salad/soup/sandwhich kicks, sweet kicks, italian seasoned kicks, etc, etc. Never been a issue. Totally a non issue with the right mixes whike doing keto. Sonetimes im more in the mood for fish, so i eat more fish. Sometimes i want chicjen nuggets, so i make chicjen nuggets. Sometimes i want pizza, so i make a keto freindly pizza from scratch. I can if i want noodles use soaghetti squash, shiritaje noodkes, or kelp noodles. If i want rice its mostly using konjac rice though im gonna test hearts of palm soon. I dont tokerate cruciferous veggies or keafy greens at all so anythjngvwith cauliflower is out for me. There are foods i dont tolerate because of my glucose and some i dont tolerate because they screw my digestion. Still, there are some foods if i severely limit and pair with plenty of protirn i tolerate well. Ive made air fried potato chips for example. A half oz of those as part of a meal is a non issue. If i want more chips than that with the meal i throw in some low carb options like home made cheese crisps, home made veggie chips made from low carb root veggies like rutabega. Who said you cant eat standard meals like fries, chips, pizza, meatloaf, while doing keto? Guess what, i eat any and all of those things with minor tweaks. The fact i can do meatloaf by using a bit of coconut flour as a binder over saltines and eat pureed rutabega in place of mashed potatos as a meal is not lost on me.

[@jessideb333]

I love the foods you make! Is there a particular place I might find the recipes and more ideas? Congratulations on your progress and making this way of eating working for you in such an imaginative way!

[@missyleonis]

@@jessideb333 i mostly improvise. Though i have no issue sharing any particular recipe if you want. My recipes I just get a craving and know my diet restrictions and figure out how to make those two things work for a recipe.

[@jessideb333]

@@missyleonis Great! Thanks Missy! I'll trust my imagination and try more things. I'm going to check out the shopping with Dr. Westman. Thinking about taking his class too. Ever tried steaming radishes? With butter they are yummy. Some people use them in place of potatoes. I think they are low oxalates but need to re- check. I also plan to make my own yogurt using goat milk. There is full fat and 2% and its similar to the A-1 milk...or A-2? Whichever us the one that is easier for some people to digest. Thanks for your reply!

[@missyleonis]

@@jessideb333 i like radishes but have never steamed them. That sounds really good though. Over boiled turnip or rutabega and topped with yogurt and shredded cheese almost like a roasted potato sub. My ex often boiled potato's and topped them with drippings, sour cream, butter, salt, cheese, and pepper as a side for steaks instead of futzing with baking potato's, so doing it with diakon radish, turnip, or rutabega is a low carb/keto twist on the sane thing.

[@jessideb333]

@@missyleonis Yes, they are all root vegetables. Not heavy carbs like potatoes. Did you take Dr. Westman class? It seems its like a 10 week group thing. I think he will teach interesting ways to be successful and keep me from getting board, but when there are issues that really need to get cleared up there is the more strict Lion diet to follow as well as fasting.

[@KirstiCheetahh]

Grains and beans? They make me sick, bloated and very gazzy. I reversed fibromyalgic pains on keto! Not for weightloss, I am lean. Ketosis and fasting gives me great energy in tennis! I thought that the mitochondria can not burn glucose and fat at the same time. It is one or the other, isn't it? The Randle cycle? Burning fat is cleaner, it produces less free radicals.

[@JD-rc6lq]

I would love to hear Gardners explanation of what a "refined grain" is and why it is bad, but a “grain” is good and a diet that excludes “grains” is bad. Are grains refined beyond flour? Is flour bad? Is he talking about beer?

[@mattm1686]

I’d love to see the study that says that it’s healthiest to burn carbs and fats together

[@mattm1686]

For most people added sugar and grains cause inflammation, and then because they’re inflamed it’s hard to exercise, and they find them self in pain. At least that’s what it does for me.

[@IonTrone]

Banting's 1864 book/letter (that Dr Westman mentioned in the video) can be found at the Internet Archive, zero cost.

[@ekondigg6751]

Between 12 and 14 min, Dr Gardner talks about the Krebs cycle, and at one point says that carbs and fat are burned together. While this is technically true, Dr Randle, of Randle cycle fame, observed that it's actually almost exclusively glucose burning or almost exclusively fat burning, except in fight or flight mode when both are available to burn, but only temporarily probably since it would likely be damaging long term. The Randle cycle is not like the Krebs cycle, rather it's more a push-pull either-or. Does Dr Gardner not know this, or does he not accept the Randle cycle?

[@finagill]

I talked to a guy yesterday that had a dietician tell him, as a type 2, that he should have almost 100g of carbs per meal.

[@wocket42]

"keto is a very restrictive diet". yes, you need to restrict carbs. Compared to the "unrestricted" balanced diet where you have to restrict everything. Right.

[@changingme1412]

Telling people about keto or carnivore makes them bring up the bread, to about 80%. No bread? Oh, the horror!

[@DrAJ_LatinAmerica]

We also have to consider the person who is 5% body fat, close the death (like a natural bodybuilder) who might have type 2 diabetes but we don't want them to lose any more body fat. So many different situations / circumstances. We have to have solutions for all.

[@paulcampbell840]

Yes, but if a keto diet can resolve the diabetes of the majority of patients, it would be much more productive to persuade them to adopt it, and then the majority of your time and expertise can be spent caring for those few who are more difficult to treat.

[@wocket42]

Yeah, sure. Those can eat higher fat. I don't have much body fat either but some sort of auto immune disease, so I eat higher fat.

[@jimrutherford2773]

I thought your body can produce glucose if it needs it in neoglucogenisis?

[@saltrock9642]

I know me and I know keto works for….me. I stopped telling people about keto because I get the same responses when I tell them what needs to be done and cutting carbs for healthy reasons isn’t at play here…..it’s the addiction to carbs that’s the problem. So, people who know they can’t bring themselves to stop eating crap will naturally say cutting carbs won’t work. They say…. “It’s impossible to stop eating carb plus your body needs it”. I call bull crap because they know chocolate cake will never give up on them so why give up on it.

[@jerrygauld9066]

I can't understand these guys that even question the low carb diet we lived and thrived for I don't know 300.000 year eating mostly meat of some kind because they had no Choice carbs and fruit are seasonl. I love low carb and Carnivore. Life Style. Sure I cheat some times but I'm no fool so 98 percent of my food is carnivore. It so easy to do and the benefits are Incredible. That's my Insertive. To stay low carb. At soon to be 75 I can do anything thing I did when I was 40 I mean anything. In fact I Recently taught myself To handstand. I have a 6 pack. And didn't 10 years ago when I was 15 pounds over weight and Pre diabetic.

[@engc4953]

Eating 400 grams a day is the reason why we are sick and many are fat. Really pathetic.

[@shorelined1]

Interesting history. Ketosis is a natural state of efficiency when food is scarce (fasting). It's hard to see inducing a natural state as a negative, especially when research keeps finding more benefits to it.

[@IonTrone]

one way to tell they have anti-keto/anti-meat bias is when they promptly sweep all the keto/carnivore benefits under the rag and move on to something else.

[@AndrewTheFrank]

What I find with these carb and plant eaters is that they talk constantly about this food and that food that are nutrient dense and call them super foods. But when you look at what you have to eat on such diets to meet your "caloric intake needs" you have to consume a large volume of food. It is crazy looking back at it. You have to almost eat all day long. Non stop foraging. But looking at the keto/carnivore foods they are super nutrient dense and can easily be stuffed down in one sitting. Just eat until i'm satiated and i'm good for the day. I probably fit all the nutrients, if not more, in the volume of one meal that i used to fit into 3 meals the same size. It blows my mind thinking back on it. And I have to agree that these guys kind of sound like carb addicts and its usually the thing I noticed when people consider going keto. They don't look forward to eating a steak every day. They instead dread giving up their bread, pizza, ice cream, etc.