Dr Kat and Lady/Queen Jane Grey

[@iloveyourunclebob]

Lady Jane Grey absolutely breaks my heart. There's no doubt in my mind that she would have gladly gone away quietly and just lived out the rest of her life in peace. I have no doubt that Mary knew it too and that's why she wanted to spare her. I actually appreciate seeing Mary in a much more human light now that I'm older. Most shows and movies around the Tudors just focus the struggle between her and Anne Boleyn. It's so refreshing to know she was very empathetic with Jane and friends with Anne of Cleves. I'm not saying Mary is a great person, but more often than not she's portrayed as a villain with no humanity.

[@barbarak2836]

Look at all the traumas she went through in her life. I've always had a soft spot for Mary because she was such a tragic figure.

[@Author.Noelle.Alexandria]

Mary is flawed, but I don't think she's really worse than anyone else. If anything, she's a lot kinder than she's given credit for. She had pressures forced upon her that no one should have, and that was after being stripped of her mother and neglected and mistreated in so many ways. Yes, she had heretics burned, but she did so believing that they would turn to god in their deaths. Not that it's okay (I'm a devout atheist...I'd have been burned), but her reasons were at least to try to do good, not just because she got a bug up her ass and wanted revenge like her dad did. Even Elizabeth wasn't innocent there. If anything, Mary showed a lot of compassion and hesitancy to have anyone executed. I don't think anyone would have blamed her for executing get sister since the next in line would have been their cousin James, and the people plotting against her in favor of Elizabeth likely wouldn't have done so for a foreign king. But she couldn't make herself do it. And I don't think she'd have signed fo Jane Grey if she hadn't felt forced.

[@amandadunn1238]

So true! Well said!! Hopefully there will be more light shed on these strong and intriguing women!

[@ThePhantazmya]

My Machiavellian side understands why Jane had to be executed. Even if she herself wished to be left alone and live quietly, the people around her would not be content to let her as she was their ticket to power if they successfully pulled off a coup. She was not strong enough to resist their machinations and for this reason she shouldn't ever sit on the throne. Her removal from the situation was necessary for stability. It's not particularly nice or fair that death was the only way to accomplish this. Mary had her hand forced by the actions of Janes own family. I feel sorry for Lady Jane but she should never have been made heir to Edward. She was too weak and too young.

[@zeddeka]

Not a particular fan of David Starkey but I think he got Mary right when he said her main vice was moral vanity. Very obsessive about her beliefs and utterly convinced about the righteousness of them.

[@joan4115]

I have always been very upset by Jane's execution. She was basically a child who was manipulated by her parents and other power hungry men. It is sad that at 16 years of age her life was wasted.

[@davidlogan4329]

Jane and Guildford were brutally put to death by Bloody Mary. They were among the first victims of the tyrant Queen.

[@Shan_Dalamani]

@@davidlogan4329 Her father was also executed. If he hadn't rallied some men to try to put her back on the throne, Mary might have eventually released her.

[@jeffcampbell1555]

P.S. Dr. Kat, Yes please re: Lady Katherine.

[@flannerypedley840]

Yes! Yes! I love the way you do take note of our suggestions and enthusiasms. Thank you.

[@eponassongequinechannel2491]

Yes please!!!

[@facetofacewithshell]

Please yes. X

[@tc2334]

Agreed

[@shannonmarshall7843]

Yes please!

[@Lizzie-ve7kt]

I like that Mary’s first instinct wasn’t to blame Jane. Having had her life so managed and left to the whims of men she probably understand that Jane really had no choice and would’ve been trying to make the best of a bad situation. It’s a really cool example of empathy for another woman that I wish would’ve been more widespread during that time.

[@oohforf6375]

Gosh, many of the men discussed in this video...are really awful! I've had it up to HERE with Thomas Seymour! 😤

[@elizabethwoolnough4358]

Totally agree. Thomas was a revolting person. So was Robert Devereux, Earl of Essex, executed in 1601 for his rebellion against Elizabeth.

[@Dotty2wice]

You and me both. And he was supposed to be drop-dead gorgeous? I don’t think so.

[@JazCarSpotOnToday]

It must have been heart breaking seeing her trying to find the place to lay her head for the final time. She died so bravely, for one so young.

[@junpi8562]

@@elizabethwoolnough4358 And Jane's own grandfather Charles Brandon who married and impregnated a 14 year old girl months after his wife Mary's death. (Not to mention abandoning the mother of his first child to marry her rich widow aunt, just to get his hands on her cash, annul the marriage, and return to her niece!)

[@jillymo527]

I was first introduced to Jane by a happy accident at the library during my high school years 40 (!!!!) years ago, and I've continued my interest in her since. It was actually Jane's story that led me to Elizabeth I, and as a huge admirer of Elizabeth's, I am grateful for that. Jane's been treated as a footnote in English history, but I think her story should be more widely known. Thank you, Dr. Kat, for this amazing video about Jane. And, yes, please make a video about Katherine Grey. PS. stories like these really give me a negative view on power-hungry men, historical and present. That damn Thomas Seymour! He screwed up so many lives.

[@amysbees6686]

I had a similar story, acquiring a biography on Jane from a library book sale. I truly empathize with her; the film made that increasingly so. I portrayed her parents as brutal and power hungry. Is that a far portrait of Henry and Frances Grey?

[@patriciahayes2664]

I too came across Jane Grey during my last year of high school. I was on a "Six Wives of Henry VIII/Elizabeth R" craze and was immediately hooked on Jane's story. I'm now 68 but I own that YA novel which was written by Marguerite Vance. As for the 1986 "Lady Jane" movie, yes it was full of inaccuracies, but at that time I was glad that her story was finally being told. The other bonus was that Patrick Stewart, who played Jane's father Henry Grey in the film, went on to become Captain Jean-Luc Picard in the "Star Trek: The Next Generation" TV series. 😊

[@daisyflower4105]

The more I read of Lady Jane Grey, the more I’m impressed by her. Such strength of character for one so young. Her execution was so unnecessary. Mary should have been stronger in sparing her life. It’s truly amazing the dignity she showed at her execution. I think she would have been a great Queen. She was educated, had high Christian values and a strong character. Poor girl ...with parents like hers...who needs enemies?

[@Myke_OBrien]

I’ve always found Lady Jane to be a very sympathetic figure. She was an unwilling pawn in a struggle for power.

[@kateh2007]

I think that you bring up an immensely important point when you ask what gives someone the right to rule? Is it bloodline, divine right, political or military might or the will of the subjects? I have never really given this much serious thought and have assumed that the succession must have been organised" fairly" in accordance with the predecessor's wishes. When I look at our history I see that I have been so very naive and just plain wrong!!!! Thankyou Dr Kat because no one else, no teacher, lecturer, historian or presenter in my experience has brought up this one vital question. You always provide food for thought and further study, I do feel for Lady Jane Grey, especially being so young. I would be interested in learning more of her sister Katherine please. Stay safe and well💕

[@Fiddling_while_Rome_burns]

GRR Martin has for me come up with the best answer to this question, he said power resides where men believe it resides. In this case they believed it lay in Mary not Jane.

[@mangot589]

Kate H Except for divine right, which isn’t real, it usually was a combination of bloodline and /political/military might . But the most important was “the will of the people”, which back then, meant the will of the Barons. Especially the one with the biggest army. Generally, bloodline was respected until one king or the other started stripping people of their titles and lands. Then the fun began. It IS fascinating, and there is so many books about it. Have fun!

[@dougr.2398]

@@mangot589 reference some of the books, please?

[@mangot589]

@@dougr.2398 I can give you a couple that are general. I’ll have to find/look them up, some that I have or can recall the titles, that I think you might like. I borrow a lot from the library. In the meantime, Richard II is probably the best example I can think of right off the top of my head, so you can look into him. I’ll get back to you. The grandkids are here right now, but I will lol.

[@dougr.2398]

@@mangot589 thank you! Much appreciated!

[@amandacrawford1870]

I would love to see a video on Katherine Grey! I love learning about peoples lives that are often lost to history!

[@ameryek.9607]

Thank you for talking about Lady Jane as a classical scholar. So very unusual for a woman at that time, even a high-born one. Notice how she is portrayed with a book.

[@becky7973]

Love your videos! I find the life of Lady Jane Grey so sad. And I would love to see a video on Katherine Grey!

[@nadze13]

+1

[@desireestpaul6071]

I would as well.

[@tiffanysanchez9184]

I should very much like that as well...

[@GeorgeHodgsonx]

Please do a Lady Katherine Grey video! She's my 18th Great Grandmother, and is really underrated as a historical figure!

[@USA50_]

I second that request!

[@kathrynjordan8782]

she's my second cousin 14 times removed.

[@debbiereed4430]

I’m descended from both sides…. My great grandmother was a Grey from this line..

[@jasonmack2569]

Love my Friday mornings. No work, hot coffee, and a good half hour w/ Dr. Kat.

[@XtreamBrands]

Re: the execution of Jane Grey: for Mary I think it was a great big signal to her half sister Elizabeth not to inspire any rebellions or you will be next!!

[@helenafarkas4534]

if Edward's journal (that he kept throughout his life) is any guide, the device is all his. he inherited his father's force of will, and then some, even if he was still legally a minor. and after his experiences with his Seymour Uncles (and their kidnapping attempts) NO ONE was going to tell him what to do. if there was any coercion going on, it was to add the "and hers" after Jane's name, and the only reason he gave in was because there was literally no other option.

[@ReadingthePast]

Excellent point, no doubt his youth plays a part in clouding scholars from being willing to see his power and capacity for political intrigue.

[@MsCharley13]

I never realised Jane died so young.

[@JazCarSpotOnToday]

It must have been heart breaking seeing her trying to find the place to lay her head for the final time. She died so bravely, for one so young.

[@TinaCutri]

Every time a new video of yours pops up on my feed I get so happy!

[@LaSirenaSaggia]

The tragedy of someone so brilliant and so young being executed by no fault of her own, simply for doing as she was told by her toxic family…it’s just incredibly sad. Thank you for presenting her story with the tenderness and attention to detail that she deserves. If only girls like Jane had been allowed to go to college and contribute to academia instead of being shuffled about the aristocratic & marital chessboard for the benefit of others…

[@tianna1116]

Excellent synopsis and opinion, I couldn’t agree more

[@josersandoval]

“Let me know if you’d like me to make a video on”- Dr Kat, I’d watch a video of you telling the history behind the modern English phonebook.

[@aagold76]

The movie about her with Helena Bonham Carter, while overly romantic, seems to have been fairly accurate. If she doesn't count as Monarch because she was never anointed, then neither should Edward VIII, right?

[@thomasllewelynjones5546]

Correct! Neither was Edward V, so I always count her in when I make mental notes of the English monarchy haha

[@beth7935]

And Edward V, but no-one ever misses him out! She's Queen Jane to me.

[@Gamble661]

You're right about Edward VIII but, the movie with Bonham Carter was rife in inaccuracies, beginning with Jane's relationship with her husband. Before he was led to Tower Hill he asked to see her and she refused. Unlike the movie they were not close at all let alone in love. The movie includes many more liberties with history but that's the one I remember most.

[@sueb2b]

Agreed. Except the movie gave Jane a loving and supportive husband. From what I’ve read in other sources, Guilford Dudley was neither.

[@aagold76]

@@sueb2b and Kev Mac... well- I did say FAIRLY accurate- I meant the history, not how people felt about each other... as mentioned- it was over romanticized- the film was going after a teen market.

[@ErinBerlintop10]

I first saw the execution portrait of Lady Jane when I was about 10 years old in a copy of a British history magazine my grandfather subscribed to. It has always haunted me -- so tragic and so sad.

[@HilaryElizabeth9]

I've been fairly obsessed with Lady Jane Grey for decades. I roamed the rooms of the giant Tower of London to find her husband's graffiti of her name and finally found it (assuming, as I prefer to do, that it was really for her from him). This was an excellent history of her, thank you so much for it. I'd really like to go even more in depth with her. I think she was terribly used and manipulated by the men around her. what a sad ending for this 16yo child. It breaks my heart.

[@k.stacey7389]

I don’t know who wrote Edward’s device, but I do know there was no way in hell he had to be coerced into signing it. That kid was as anti-Catholic as they come.

[@madmonkee6757]

His mother, whether she found herself in heaven or hell, must've been mortified. She desperately wanted to return England to Catholicism.

[@gypsydonovan]

Mad Monkee it all would have been different had Edward known her.

[@SafetySpooon]

@Garrod Saxon He had to exclude Elizabeth because of the reason he used to exclude Mary: "declared illegimiate"

[@ShallowApple22]

That kid wasn't a kid he executed 2 uncles in vain glory profiting from his riches before he was 12! He wrote diaries in the 3rd person from 9 years old he had never been given the chance to be a child he was born as the heir to England.

[@meeeka]

ItZ Wardie He was TAUGHT to write so, in the third person. Throughout the 16th c, no child, neither rich not poor, had what we consider a childhood. He was bought up with his responsibilities and duties, just as most children we're up through the first part of the 20th c. One had to respect one’s religious duties, elders, station in life. Working class kids had to respect elders, authorities, bosses (as many had to work.) That sort of self discipline created grownups, very different from the ones now.

[@giddygrub7176]

Great vid. I feel Jane really was misused by the men around her for their own gain, which was often the case, unfortunately. She was currency.

[@nohjuan3048]

And it's still happening today, men using girls and women. Females are more than half the human population of the world. Why are we still tolerating this?

[@giddygrub7176]

@@nohjuan3048 agreed. Trafficking of women and girls is one of the biggest issues that just doesn't seem to get coverage.

[@zeddeka]

Indeed. Let's also not forget that her mother was abusive and complicit, and that it was a woman who signed her death warrant.

[@LakesBC]

This story was a little known gem of history. 💎

[@meowcenary21]

My husband and I love your channel and enjoy watching! Your videos are so interesting and informative. Thank you!

[@lspthrattan]

Fascinating! and yes, Katherine Grey next please. You really do know how to tell a story, Dr. Kat. :)

[@ashleydavall]

Great video as always Dr Kat. There's a few reason that combine together to explain why I think we don't recognise Jane as a Queen normally: Firstly, as you point out, she is never anointed as Queen. That certainly makes her less valid, but we do recognise Edward V & Edward VIII as King, neither of them went through a full coronation either, so it doesn't entirely rule Jane out. Secondly, her claim to the throne so completely defies the laws of primogeniture, not only by ignoring Mary & Elizabeth (who Edward VI thought he could legally manoeuvre around as they had been declared bastards), but also Mary Queen of Scots claim (as the granddaughter of Henry VIII's older, rather than younger, sister) and, crucially, Jane's own mother Francis. This defies all of Gods 'natural order' in appointment of Monarchs. This makes Jane a usurper. However we do occasionally acknowledge usurpers as Monarch (Henry VII, for example). But third, and perhaps the real clincher in the argument, her entire reign (in all 9 days) is disputed. She never truly has a moment of being recognised as Queen by the entire country at large, she never really is the person in the eyes of the country who has the best claim to the throne, that was always Mary, who of course succeeds in claiming that right. This permanent dispute of their time time in power is what excludes someone like Empress Matilda from being recognised as Queen as well. In fact Matilda would have more claim than Jane (as she was both the next in line via primogeniture, unlike Jane). Once again Kat, great video 👍

[@BeatrixOnyx]

@18:30 - If we don't refer Lady Jane as 'Queen Jane' or 'Jane I' because she wasn't anointed with the Holy Oil of the coronation. Then why do we refer to other, non anointed kings, as kings? Edward V and Edward VI(?) spring to mind.

[@christopherbrown2706]

We don't refer to her as Jane I because there was never a Jane II, de jure, de facto, or titular, or even a Queen consort (or royal female PERIOD) named Jane. As far as the oil, excellent point.

[@BeatrixOnyx]

@@christopherbrown2706 I've seen some historians refer to her as 'Jane I' (Dr Suzanne Lipscombe's FutureLearn Tudors course refers to her as such), so this is why I mentioned this. No need to be rude. 🙄

[@freyabookishgamer]

@@BeatrixOnyx You raised an excellent point. I think it was Edward VIII actually. It would be interesting to see Dr Kat's view on this. Also, I wouldn't pay Christopher Brown any attention. He's clearly a troll with nothing better to do.

[@BeatrixOnyx]

@@freyabookishgamer True! They're definitely just 💪💪 quite sad really.

[@GildaLee27]

Misogyny, plain & simple.

[@margochristensen6359]

Dr. Kat, thank you for being such a positive influence on my avid interest in British history. I so enjoy your videos and wish you had been my professor in college. My professor was quite brilliant but lacked the ability to express his knowledge in anything but a low monotone of facts. As much as I really tried to stay awake, his boring lectures put me to sleep in 5 minutes. I learned nothing. In my 60's, my passion for British history sparked into a bonfire. Now retired, covid came along and allowed me to dive into anything related to my interests. Then I I found you on utube. The cardboard figures o

[@pennylane4718]

your videos are some of my new favourite things! i love learning about tudor history and the way you explain it is perfect. lady jane grey is such a tragic character of history and she deserved so much better!

[@harrietlyall1991]

There’s an excellent film of Lady Jane Grey’s life, starring Helena Bonham Carter as Lady Jane Grey, which movingly depicts the pathos, dignity and idealism of her character.

[@janechappell8551]

Love the story of the Grey sisters and although Jane fascinated me it has been Katherine who has captured my attention. I would love to see a video and hear your thoughts on her.

[@loretta_3843]

I've always had a soft spot for Jane Grey. Such an amazingly intelligent girl who seems to have had such a tragic life. You're right, if they had contained Mary, it would have been game over.

[@judyder3607]

I’m so enjoying your videos! I’m Canadian, and have always been fascinated by the Royal Family. I also so enjoy reading about history. Thank you for delving into some of the less publicized members of the Royal Family!

[@ladyliberty417]

Thank you for untying the knot of Lady Janes story, the most important thing seems to be Edwards will, and there she is! She did nothing wrong but had no power And was expendable, and in the way. Sigh. When I first learned of her long ago I was horrified at her story and still am.

[@dalestaley5637]

Another podcast on Jane Grey mentioned she reigned 13days as a Queen! So many Kings that were children received far more respect and given credit for their reign. She was Queen for longer than 9 days. So Queen Jane has been much aligned. Thanks for the great program.

[@pierrefireball2505]

Dr. Kat I love your channel, you are such a great interpreter of histories. Please continue to do more on English awesome Kings, Queens, and other around the power of UK history. Thank you so much for your great outlook in history. sending you many virtual hugs from Montreal Canada.

[@pat412pear]

I think acclamation more than anything else is the standard for a king or queen. This allows for Edward V and Edward VIII, but excludes Jane. Although King Louis (the Lion) was acclaimed and crowned in 1216, his acclamation was later rescinded; but as Shakespeare’s Richard II said, “ Not all the water in the rough rude sea can wash the balm from an anointed King.” So I guess the rules are being made up as needed by the powers that be.

[@nobodysbaby5048]

Pretty much been that way since Eden.

[@DannyJane.]

This was a wonderful re-telling of the story of Jane Grey. I would very much like to hear the stories of her sisters. There is also a matter that I'd like to introduce. Barring the Sisters Grey, you have covered virtually everything the story of the Tudors have to tell us . We read about them, there are movies, television series, books galore. But once Elizabeth I passes there's a desert until we come to Victoria, with only a bobble here and there from Bonnie Prince Charlie, George III and the Regency. I'd like to something of the story of the STEWARTS who followed the Tudors and the Hanoverians. Can we please begin with examinations of the SEVENTEENTH century and its players from James I through Charles I, Lord "Protector" Cromwell, and Charles II? I'd like to expand that to cover the little-discussed period between the two great queens, Elizabeth and Victoria.

[@hogwashmcturnip8930]

Good point.The Civil War,was as fascinating, if not moreso than the Tudors.It moves from the Court to the people and there are some amazing stories. Charles 2nd's escape from the battle of Worcester is my favourite, because initially it all started in my home region. I know Boscobel House, the places in Worcester and why no one has ever made a film of it I will never know. Here is this heir to the throne,hiding in trees, being sheltered by Catholic Freemen, escorted halfway across the country by an immensely brave woman who passed him off as her servant,.Forget Flora McDonald and her pathetic 5 minute boat ride.There is Farce! One of his Nobles flatly refused to disguise himself and travelled in luxury while he future king was subterfuging.They would meet up en route and the noble nearly blew the cover! It is an amazing story.The fact that Charles didn't forget Any of the people who helped when he regained his throne endeared me to him.. I think he gets a bad press. Yes he was indolent, a womaniser, lousy with money but he was also immensely loyal and I think he never forgot what common people risked for him .www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/worcester.html

[@lynnedelacy2841]

Charles ll is the one I’d want to meet

[@hogwashmcturnip8930]

@@lynnedelacy2841 Me too

[@saritacruz3020]

Yes, I'd love to hear more of the Stewarts!

[@Luubelaar]

8:25 - so easy to relate to her. It's really hard when you can, in your parents' eyes, do absolutely nothing right.

[@janeadams647]

Yes please, a video on Katherine Grey would be greatly appreciated. I love all of your videos. Interesting and informative.

[@subversivecritter8043]

Thank you for doing this video on Jane Grey. I have been interested in her tragic story since I first learned about her (from the film Lady Jane). As others have stated here, I have no doubt that she would have quietly and happily lived out her life if she had been allowed to do so. Unfortunately, she was a pawn for the ambitions of others.

[@katieflaxbeard1019]

Lovely video as always! I heard too that it was Jane’s religious defiance of Mary that ultimately got her executed. Mary was as devoted of a Catholic as Jane was a devoted Protestant. I believe I learned somewhere that even as a prisoner in the tower she wrote letters defending her faith and denouncing Catholicism and this along with her father’s part in the rebellion got her killed. I do find her such a fascinating character in the Tudor storyline. I would love you to do a video on Catherine Gray as well!

[@gypsydonovan]

The clearest religious defiance of the era was certainly Mary I under her little brother. He tried compromise, threats, commands, hurting those close to her, near begging. I really believe Mary didn't want to kill Jane, even with the religious differences. Like Elizabeth I killing Mary QoS, it came down to the threat posed as a symbol for rebellion. Whether or not she would have participated, her existence itself inspired treachery in others.

[@darlac10155]

Dr. Kat - A Thumbs Up for Sure - Your Informative Video explains in Full Details about this Sad Story in our History . I do believe it is the Best i have seen . Though , not much is ever mentioned about Lady Jane Grey's Grand Mother - Lady Margaret Wotton (Marchioness of Dorset) from Boughton Malherbe , which was married to Sir Thomas Grey ll (Marquess of Dorset) from Groby . Her Parents are my 14th G. G. Parents along with Princess Diana's . Even though not Royals , they married into the Family and were an important part in History as my 13th G. G. Father Sir Edward Wotton was on the Privy Council to King Henry VII & his brother Nicolas (Doctor of Laws) was on the Council of King Henry VIII . In 1514 Margaret & her husband accompanied Princess Mary Tudor to France for her wedding to King Louis XII of France . In 1533 she rode in Anne Boleyn's Coronation Procession . She stood as one of the Godmother's of Princess Elizabeth . A Long History within itself which i continue to Research .

[@pooshkahnla6074]

What I find interesting is that even with the succession in Jane's favour and friends in power at court, Mary was still able to topple her as she would reign with the support of the people. No monarch can rule easily without that support. I'd also love to hear more about the Grey sisters' lives, please.

[@mariadrew871]

I am so happy you shared the story of Jane with us. Please share the story of her sisters as well. From what I remember their story is very close to that of Ar’bella. Having a place in the line of succession to a Tudor monarch did not make for a joyous life. Thank you so much ! I really enjoy your work.

[@HilaryElizabeth9]

A few asides ... 1) Yes to a Lady Katherine video, or all the Grey Sisters (I'm getting an, "... Angelica ... Eliza ... and Peggy" tune in my head. 2) I really love the usage of visuals in your videos. Especially the family trees and artwork. You're doing alot more of this lately, and its extremely effective, thank you!!! 3) Who the hell are the down-voters? You get like three haters every video. Ugh.

[@dinawillert3524]

I think this my favorite Tudor tale. I know that sounds awful because it ended so horrifically for all involved. The Tudors were few, but there power was absolute. John Dudley and Henry are the scapegoats, with Frances on the domestic side of things. Edward the sick, and Mary the crazed catholic. Jane the saint and Guildford the brutal husband. History is written by the victors. Even then it wasn't all black or white and truth resides somewhere in the middle. That being said, Jane was a pawn in their game of thrones. Part of the times in which she lived. Sadly pawns are sometimes sacrificed. May she rest in peace. Even Mary didn't want to go through with it. She felt she had no choice. Yes, I would also love to hear of Catherine and Mary Grey.

[@davidlogan4329]

Don't pity Bloody Mary. Nobody forced her to murder Jane and Guildford and so many other innocents.

[@carolinewilloughby7952]

This video is chock full of interesting information! I watched several times so that I could soak it all in. I wonder about all the of secret marriages taking place during this time, even Henry's own sister Mary took Charles Brandon as her husband without permission from the king. What was causing these women to feel more empowered to make their own choices? Perhaps you could speak on this topic in a future video? Thanks

[@arthistorygirl2327]

Such an interesting story - I've been so inspired by Dr Kat I've started my own channel 😊

[@historyfreak6591]

I think the discussion of the portrait is interesting. The portrait and eye witness account show Jane as an innocent, but in another documentary called "England's Forgotten Queen: The Life and Death of Jane Grey", the historians think of her as a player in her own right. As you said Dr. Kat, she may not have wanted the throne, but she was going to give it her all. Everyone thinks of Jane Grey as a naive innocent but the historians in the documentary assert that how could someone that intelligent and with formidable Tudor will in her blood be a completely naive innocent. I think she was a young girl caught n circumstances she didn't want but rose to the occasion. She was tougher than everyone made her out to be.

[@jasminep9455]

I would love to see you do a video on Katherine Grey!

[@jeffcampbell1555]

My God, what a period of history! From the Wars of the Roses onward, how many ambitious nobles lost their lives in pursuit of the crown or the power of association with it? As if the example of the Seymours wasn't fresh enough, Dudley had to follow their footsteps expecting a different outcome. As for Jane, I'm of the opinion that Edward VI's will made her the heir...a point of law powerless against the popular support for Henry's daughters of the body or the religious fervor that accrued to each. Finally, pray for the soul of the pitiable child, Lady Jane Grey; blameless and briefest Queen of England!

[@hogwashmcturnip8930]

I don't think she was a pliable child.For a start she was not a 'child' by Tudor Standards, secondly whe was far from 'pliant' Have you read some of her comments? She was quite happy to take the throne for the Protestant cause.She was Not happy to have John Dudley pulling her strings: I see her like Joan of Arc, fervent in her belief and quite happy to become a martyr for it. It hink Dr Kat got it pretty right.

[@gypsydonovan]

There wasn't much subservience to Jane's nature. She was fervently religious and politically astute. I don't think she sought the throne, I do think she was surprised & I even believe she thought Mary I had the right. Still, I think she wished to make the most of it. I hate the image of her as a shrinking innocent child thrown to the wolves. She was raised by wolves. Sometimes she was forced into things but I don't believe she was ever manipulated into them. She was young and her death is tragic, but she was intelligent and passionate and I believe had she held on she would have brought about the death or exile of every English catholic.

[@jeffcampbell1555]

@@hogwashmcturnip8930 Yes, she was an adult by the standards of her day, but was a child by the standards of ours. And I wrote pitiable, not pliable. I was reacting to her plight, not trying to explicate her circumstances.

[@2Sparrows4aFarthing]

Power makes people do crazy things. The British royals aren’t near as ridiculous as the Ancient Egyptians. They killed off their brothers and married and impregnated their sisters like gangbusters

[@laurenvickers1566]

Just found your videos and I’m obsessed 🥰

[@desireestpaul6071]

Dr. Kat's videos have become my most recent addiction, lol. They're wonderful!

[@christiancamp6796]

I do believe, being so young and impressionable that, Edward was made to feel by his advisors, as though he was completely happy and content with the papers of succession which he had previously dictated, regarding his will for the line of succession after his own death. Of course, we shall never know his true and honest feelings regarding this matter as he died shortly after his line of succession was drawn up. Thank you, Dr. Kat. We do enjoy your videos so much as, we are a 3 generation household, (grandparent, parent, and children). Two of whom have finished their studies at University, one who is to graduate from high-school this year, and one who is about to begin high school this year. So, as you can imagine, our house is a very lively place to be. Please continue your videos and discussions about history as it has caused many deep and meaningful talks within our family. Once again, thanks so much and my very best to you! My best to you, always, TK.

[@SunflowerSpotlight]

I love how it's sort of casually seen as a huge mistep, impropriety that she would "reach for the throne," that it was uppity, upstartish, and plain disloyal for her to do so, but it was what the prior king had WILLED. So in not supporting his decision, they were not being loyal to HIM. The victors do truly write history. As much as I'm inspired by Elizabeth's reign, it's initeresting to think of what a reign by Jane would have looked like, the potential turns England would have taken. Of course I immediately think of Calais.

[@ReadingthePast]

It would be a very interesting counter-factual history exercise to explore this - I'm sure someone has already give it a go, in fact!

[@robbiemclaurin1852]

Thank you for explaining this lineage in such understandable detail.❤

[@DipityS]

Fascinating, thank you, Dr Kat - I've always been interested in Lady Jane and how that all worked out. I'm not overly happy with her family I must admit. i get to the end of some of your videos and seethe at the people acting out of greed and self-interest and want to go back in time and kick some noble butt.

[@skirmishofwit]

The story of Queen Jane was what first interested me in Tudor history in high school. I had a day to spend in London sightseeing right after I graduated and the only place I wanted to go was the Tower of London, such a central location in all of the history I had learned about. This video reminded me of that initial spark of interest over 25 years ago. Your videos are always fascinating but this one is a favorite.

[@debbiehummel7629]

Would like to know more about Katherine Grey. Thanks for your videos, I enjoy them very much.

[@ginadelfina5887]

I remember reading that it was technically illegal for King Edward VI to set up a new succession, because Henry VIII's will for the succession had already been set into a act of Parliament, the Act of Succession. If Edward VI had had time to get his own succession plan set into an act of Parliament, overturning Henry's, then Edward's plan would have been legal. But, if Henry VIII had never gotten the Act of Succession passed, then both Kings' wills would have been equally up for grabs, with no force of law after their deaths (at least as far as the succession goes). Is that right?

[@victoriasymonds1044]

Please do, as a student with a primary interest in the early modern period, a piece on Kathrine as well as Edward Seymour would be very interesting. I throughly enjoy your videos and find them extremely helpful with critical analysis. x

[@toddgarrison4229]

The story of Lady Jane Grey is what sparked my interest in English history. She does indeed emerge as a tragic and sympathetic figure, despite her brief life and how little information that seems to have passed down through unbiased, primary sources. I’ve often wondered what her life would have been like had Edward simply not written his device for the succession. Given the fate of so many born too close to the throne at that time, it likely might still not have ended well. Thank you for this segment, Dr. Kat! And number me among those who would like to see you do segments on the other Grey sisters, Katherine and Mary, or even the story of Mary Tudor Brandon (1496-1533). She’s often left in the shadows of her showier siblings, though she is an interesting and romantic figure.

[@jordanp4259]

Fantastic video. It would be lovely to see a video on Katherine Grey and possibly black people in Tudor England.

[@dawnsmith2389]

If we acknowledge Edward viii with a regnat number even though he was not crowned why don’t we do the same for Jane just wondering

[@k.stacey7389]

Proclamation vs coronation has always been a tangled issue (to me anyway) in English history. Why do we also never hear about King Louis I of England? (Later King Louis VIII of France)

[@luciadilazzaro2285]

i wonder the same, but with Edward V and Matilda

[@flannerypedley840]

@@luciadilazzaro2285 Yes, wasn't Mathilda England's "Lady" rather than "Queen"?

[@elizabethwoolnough4358]

I think because it's generally considered that she was never rightfully queen.

[@katharper655]

As an inveterate Anglophile and History geek, my enjoyment of both has of course been absorbed by my two small omnipresent Sponges Of Knowledge and Daily Delights, my 10 and 12 yr old daughters. Having watched historical documentaries with me, and discussed their moral lessons, if any, my eldest observed wryly, "Maman...remind me never to complain about my life." It's not often a precocious 12 year old gives a parent that kind of carte blanche...so of course, I looked my Gift Child SQUARELY in the mouth and asked her why she felt that way. She stared up at me very solemnly and said, "Because a long time ago, I dont think many noble parents loved their girls." Out of the mouths of Babes. Bravo, Gillian!

[@madmonkee6757]

I can't help but wonder what would've happened if Edward and Jane had lived longer and married. Would they have had many healthy children? How would their descendants have reigned?

[@lilenwasnothere6867]

probably wouldn't be a very pretty place for catholics to live in.

[@jordynpowell7296]

I think a video on Katherine Grey would be very interesting! I would also love to see a video on Eleanor of Aquitaine, who I have always been fascinated by.

[@mj3825]

Yes💗 very happy! Yes a video on her sisters please.

[@skita6140]

Yes I’d like a video of the younger grey sisters 🙂 Thank you for providing mini escapes from uni and quarantine x

[@tuikkur.5655]

Thank you so much for this video. I will refer Lady Jane Grey as Queen Jane Grey from now on. I think she deserves it. ❤

[@sydneykrier4118]

I LITERALLY get so excited every time you upload a new video! 🥰

[@RABuffat]

This was a very informative video. Thx Dr. Kat! I always marvel at her story because she was so young and unassuming but seemed to be quite assertive in her role once she believed herself to be the queen apparent. Sadly, that was also her undoing. Poor young thing.

[@teefemme]

Thank you for going into detail on Lady Jane Grey. I’ve always found she is skipped or glossed over, and your thoughts on why that might be the case I found extremely interesting.

[@mkaykay3]

I just found your channel yesterday and I just love it!!! A video about Katherine Grey would be wonderful

[@emsantos0283]

I've always been fascinated with Queen Jane's history the 9 days Queen is so overlooked. I'd loved to hear about Jane's fellow sisters. Maybe also on the Seymour brothers Edward & Thomas.

[@bwktlcn]

Not a lawyer. But I know part of a wedding is the licensure and then a public declaration-church wedding, visiting a justice of the peace, etc. In that vein, Jane was given a crown (license) but never had the public declaration. Ostensibly, it was to prevent a pack of “secret” kings and queens-you might have “pretenders” but not actual princes, kings, etc. - but it also put a gate on who could have both crown and coronation. If a stray soldier had killed Richard the III and popped the crown on his own head, nobody would have said, oh yes, King solely by right of possession of the crown. Thank you, Dr. Kat, for helping an extremely tired nurse in Virginia get through Covid. Stay safe and be well. The world needs more people like you.

[@ChitChatHistory]

What a great video! I love the topic of monarchy, and its especially sad that Jane could have been the First Queen Regnant if she had been recognized officially, both her and Matilda have always been left out when it comes to "Queens of England" as both were written out of history because of their successors.

[@underwaterlaser1687]

Every time I visit London I go to the National Gallery to look at the execution scene painting. First time I saw it was in 1988 during a school trip. It’s truly mesmerizing.

[@lakelili]

Fascinating... I remember reading a couple of letters written by Jane Gray and more than anything came away with the impression that she was far more competent and understanding, and far less a pawn than I had previously thought. This was a very bright and well educated young woman who certainly understood what her cousin was trying to achieve and in that she was religiously in agreement. But she had been a court long enough to understand that Mary was not going to take the news lightly. Was she a pawn at play of others trying to gain or hold power - yes. Was she fully understanding of the complexity of what was happening -possibly not, but she was fully participatory and was willing to step into the role of Queen in front of both Mary and Elizabeth. On the issue of title... because she was not crowned, I believe that Lady is the correct title (just as the Duke of Windsor is not called king although he inherited the throne.)

[@flannerypedley840]

The Duke of Windsor was "styled" Edward VIII, had clear sucession and was proclaimed King (I think) so I would argue he was a different sort of case.

[@desireestpaul6071]

I just watched your "Monarchs Anonymous" video and It Was HILARIOUS!!!! King Henry VIII and "Harry" were my favorites, but Evil King John, King Edward, Victoria & Albert, they were all priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@katiekress7287]

Excellent and I would love to know more about he Grey sisters. It was my understanding that Elizabeth didn’t want the two surviving sisters to marry and have sons who could be a threat to her reign. Please do a video on Eleanor of Aquitaine. She was amazing, Queen of France then Queen of England and the mother of kings. Without her lands and wealth Henry II perhaps would have never had been successful. I had a trip planned to France this year and was planning to go to the Abby at Fontevraud to see her effigy. Maybe next year!

[@diannaroeder9661]

Love history, I like finding out about events of the past. Enjoying the series.

[@scooterpp]

I thoroughly enjoy your channel. I knew a lot but I love your ferreting out and explaining detail! I learn so much. I have on question. I asked this of Allison Weir once and her reply left me more confused I think (she is one of my favorite authors, her book Innocent Traitor about Queen Jane is excellent historical fiction). why was Frances Brandon not considered in the line of succession. Neither Henry VII or Edward VI even mention her in that capacity. Mrs. Weir seemed to indicate it had something to do with poor regard for her husband..but her husband wouldn't inherit anything..he would have a lot of influence, I guess. Seems to me something is missing here. Thank you!

[@KatTheScribe]

I have always felt that Jane was wrongfully treated. I keep forgetting just how young she was, wow! And yes, please, to a Lady Katherine video. Really, an Anyone video ;-)

[@sharonsmith583]

Love your channel! Would love to see a video about Katherine and Mary Gray

[@juliechi6166]

I would love for you to do a video on names and naming traditions in Medieval and Tudor England. I am fascinated by all of the Marys, Janes, Margarets, Thomases, etc....what about other names we rarely hear? Were they more common among lower rungs of society? Thanks!!!!

[@sixeses]

I think that Katherine Grey is the most interesting of the three sisters. At one point she was considered to be Elizabeth's heir, but Elizabeth didn't like disobedient subjects. She and her sons could have been a counterpoint to Mary Stuart and James if Elizabeth could have thought of them that way., and not as a threat. When I saw the title of this video, I thought it would be another magnification of an insignificant historical figure who was queen for 9 days, but you made it more interesting than that, especially with the use of portraiture.

[@WishesandWeeds]

I'm always interested in learning more about Lady Jane Grey. My maternal family legend is that an ancestor was a lady-in-waiting to Lady Jane, and there is a tradition of naming daughters Jane in her honour which continues to the current generation - with three living Janes at this time.. I think it more likely that some ancestor was a scullery drudge rather than lady-in-waiting, but my great-grandmother did emigrate from Leicestershire to Canada, so there could be a grain of truth there. Thanks for sharing this video.

[@calebcostigan2561]

It’s very confusing how everyone is related. Reminds me of a Patsy joke, “They have to throw a bit of common in every few generations to ensure bone structure.” 🤣

[@Luubelaar]

Well nobody wants a repeat of the whole Charles II of Spain and the "Hapsburg jaw". (Seriously he was so inbred his family tree is a wreath)

[@Anita-rq9ev]

Very interesting video as always. Please keep up your good work😊

[@nic_1903]

Firstly since I ‘discovered’ you, at some point during the Covid-19 pandemic, you have been my go to place for company in the small hours of the night - I have terrible insomnia. Your half hour bites of history are so carefully researched and edited to be satisfying glimpses into our rich history. I didn’t enjoy history at school in the 1970’s but have enjoyed biographies of women and the place in our world. My new brother in law, from South Carolina, is rather obsessed with our monarchy. He has a tendency to read sensational books, and I would like to help discover more factual sources. Would you, therefore, be able to point me in the direction of a biography of Lady Jane Grey? Perhaps you would be able to suggest some other authors for the Tudor period. I’m hoping to do some in tandem reading so we can have more informed discussions, rather than me getting exasperated by his Hollywood slant on the English monarchy 😎

[@aimeeswank8195]

Love, love love this channel! I would love to see a video on Katherine Grey. :) Thanks!

[@julika1984]

Can i just say i love your voice its so calming. I love your channel.

[@teetarquin7012]

You have the best channel on KZbin! Thank you!

[@judyblackman1215]

YES PLEASE!. A video of Lady Katherine Grey would be of great interest...

[@paulanevels504]

I love your channel!!! I think the difference between Edward V is that he was declared by parliament as king and heir. Even if never crowned. Jane Grey was not, if I understand correctly. She was declared by the privy counsel and Edward as the heir. Her story is so tragic. Mary didn't want to execute her, but she was always going to be a threat to Mary's reign. She must have been brilliant young woman.

[@juliekemp419]

I'm an Australian follower of the House of Dudley: especially re how the Duke set things up for his own dynasty and yet did not have the savvy for this vector to have Princess Mary constrained until Jane was coronated. I like the sound of Jane as a person and was glad she had befriended Elizabeth Tudor. This is such a terrifically tormented and tormenting epoch; so much has hinged upon it with gross effects subsequently. I've been my late parents' genealogist for about 18years and claim only one outright full-blooded link to any noted historic figure - and she be Elizabeth 'Bessie' Blount. Doing rigorous genealogy has been a deeply absorbing, instructing, challenging, and amazing passage. When i first discovered 'Bessie', my paternal 11th ggm, almost 2 decades ago, i did not know of her relationship to Henry VIII. I soon got into it though! Being a lateral seeker has been one good way to harness facts and/or explore likelihoods that can reveal a bit more about what is recorded in one way or another - ie vague or very limited data. THANK YOU FOR A NICE 'TIGHT' SNAPSHOT OF THIS SAD EPISODE ON LADY JANE GREY, QUEEN.

[@badbiker666]

I would LOVE a video about Katherine Grey! This is the first time I have ever heard of her. I am from the US if that explains.