Dr. Russell Barkley: The Second Attention Disorder Sluggish Cognitive Tempo vs ADHD Nov 2018

Recorded in November 2018 at the University of Gothenburg.
Source: play.gu.se/media/0_7m61xq5i
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggis...
Sluggish cognitive tempo (SCT) is the term for a syndrome that may comprise a novel and distinct attention disorder from ADHD. Symptoms of it include dreaminess, mental fogginess, hypoactivity, sluggishness, staring frequently, inconsistent alertness and a slow working speed.
SCT has been a subject of controversy for decades and debate about its nature still continues. But it is clear now that this set of symptoms is important because it significantly adds to impairment in ADHD and independently predicts a low quality of life.[1][2] Some have encouraged the use of the term concentration deficit disorder (CDD) for SCT because it may be more appropriate and less derogatory.[3]
Originally, SCT was thought to be entirely limited to about 1/3 of the inattentive subtype of ADHD[4] and being apparently incompatible with hyperactivity. But new studies showed that it is also seen in some with the other two ADHD subtypes - and in individuals without ADHD as well. Therefore, some psychologists and psychiatrists think it should be its own mental disorder. Others dismiss it altogether or believe it is a separate symptom group within ADHD (like Hyperactivity, Impulsivity or Inattention). It even may be useful as a transdiagnostic concept that is shared among different mental disorders (like emotional dysregulation, for example, which cuts across many disorders).[5]

[@cassiodomingues5403]

I've been to seven psychiatrists. The first one said I had generalized anxiety disorder. The second said I had panic disorder with agoraphobia. The third didn't care and agreed with the second. The fourth said I had OCD and social and other phobias. The fifth agreed with the first and said I had GAD. the sixth said I had Asperger's and the seventh said I was depressed and had personality problems. The sixth said I had to be examined by a neuropsychologist, which I was, and she diagnosed me with ADHD and OCD. Now I watch Dr Barkley and can't help but notice that SCT describes me better than any of these disorders. So I go and have an MRI to see if there's something wrong anatomically with my brain, and end up finding that I have a cyst the size of a golf ball behind my cerebellum and that the left hemisphere of my brain is considerably larger than the right hemisphere. So I'm still VERY inattentive, have panic attacks from time to time, am sleepy pretty much all the time, love to read and study but frequently can't find the motivation to do so and still haven't found a definitive diagnosis. Fuck me, I guess.

[@butsirrr]

Get rid of the cyst then?

[@jd4x4android]

I'm talking here totally out of a layperson's ass, but I grew up with a Mother who had epilepsy since a baby, even had a partial hemispherectomy which didn't control the seizures (as theorized/expected in those days), and spent her entire life heavily medicated for seizure control. She taught me that the human brain is amazingly adaptive, because of what I saw that she overcame in her life. Toward the end she fell and damaged her brain to the point that I was advised to DNR, but I ultimately decided not to, knowing her philosophy and experience of "anything can be overcome". After coming out of her coma she could not walk and no one thought she would be able to. She did though, with persistent determination & physical therapy. @Cássio Domingues : I don't know her "secret" and I surely don't have her drive myself. But, that doesn't mean YOU don't, or can't overcome, in my humble opinion. God Bless, and don't be labeled or defined by others.

[@aloecalico]

Applauding you for being persistent.

[@abigailsmith6977]

Wow. That’s so infuriating that nobody checked for physical issues first before diagnosing you with all those random things!! What a joke. Our system of mental health care is abysmal. :( So sorry you had to endure that. How are you doing now? Were you able to get the cyst treated?

[@cassiodomingues5403]

@@abigailsmith6977 now I have to have an MRI every year to see if the cyst is growing, so I'll be doing that. My symptoms are better since I started taking adhd medication. Thank you for your concern

[@davidabner8885]

I feel like my entire life has been unexplained until this video. I had friends with full-on ADHD, that wasn't me, something never fit right.

[@gailresources8120]

Me too. I feel like I was robbed of what I could have been. Wanted to be.

[@Fuchsia_tude]

Yeah, for something as well-studied as ADHD, and since it's clearly a spectrum disorder, it's surprising how little-known and understood the other side of the spectrum, the non-hyperactive side, is.

[@jeffreywilkinson606]

Agreed. I feel exactly the same way. SCT describes me. The day time sleepiness, mind wandering, losing things are hallmarks if my being. I am in my 60’s and I have advice if you are young. 1. Sleep as much as you can and take a daytime nap. Being sleepy is bad for everyone, but much much worse for me than anyone else. 2. Creat homes for objects and always keep your keys and wallet in the same place. 3. While I assimilate information slowly, I am typically better with the information than most, once it finally is in my brain. I am often underestimated. 4. Pay the money and join a gym with difficult exercise programs.

[@Merip1214]

@@jeffreywilkinson606 aww, a gym? 🥲 Do I have to? xD (I want to point out I'm complaining because the rest is stuff that I have also found to help 😉, so you must be onto something with the gym as well) I can also recommend making sure you drink plenty of, and sometimes (maybe just me) more than even the recommended 2litres, of water.

[@lettucepicker]

​4:37 Introduction 5:01 Objectives 6:06 History 14:51 What About the Inattentive Presentation (ADD)? 17:31 Is SCT A Separate Disorder from ADHD? 18:17 The Criteria for Distinct Disorders 20:59 BEST SCT Symptoms 23:15 Symptoms on Barkley SCT Rating Scale 25:56 SCT Symptom Coherence 29:37 Symptom Distinction from Other Disorders 31:33 Demographic Differences 36:30 Cognitive Distinctions 47:57 EF Ratings for SCT vs ADHD 49:17 Percent of Variance in EF Dimensions Contributed by ADHD vs SCT Stymtoms 50:25 Survey of US Adults (18-89) Contribution of ADHD vs SCT Symptoms to Executive Functioning (% of variance explained) 51:19 Overlap of SCT with ADHD 52:25 School and Academic Correlates 55:35 Family and Social Distinctions 58:25 Comorbidity and Personality Traits 1:02:18 Impairment in SCT vs ADHD Children 1:04:37 Impairment in SCT vs ADHD Adults 1:06:04 Contributions of SCT vs ADHD to Impairments 1:06:32 Further Adult Differences 1:07:21 Possible Etiologies 1:11:21 More on Etiologies 1:15:59 What is the Nature of SCT? 1:16:50 Different Types of Thought 1:17:32 Default Mode Network 1:17:47 Do Medications Treat SCT? 1:19:19 Psychosocial Treatment Considerations 1:20:44 SCT is Not an Appropriate Label 1:21:06 Summery 1:21:24 Does SCT meet criteria for a distinct disorder? 1:22:57 Post Discussion 1:24:50 Test Batteries and Ranking Scales 1:26:38 Stimulants Blind Study and Use 1:28:50 Psychosocial Treatments 1:29:58 Academic Viability

[@talals6881]

Thank you

[@benjaminlebbert]

Thanks, I needed that

[@courtneywoodburn7487]

THANK YOU!!!!! For all of us ADHDers wanting to watch this, YOU ARE A FREAKIN' HERO!!!

[@werelwolf]

1:24:50 Test Batteries and Ranking Scales 1:26:38 Stimulants Blind Study and Use 1:28:50 Psychosocial Treatments 1:29:58 Academic Viability

[@sayredolan]

⁰

[@C.Y.Q]

Every parent and every teacher should listen Dr. Russell Barkley’s informative and enlightening lectures. It hurts to see many children being misunderstood and/or neglected. Dr. Barkley’s clear presentation is a bonus. This professor is simply unsurpassed.

[@Mbspitz851]

I have this disorder and I worked twice as hard as others to get good grades and it took me long to get my work completed. I had memory problems too.

[@Ignasimp]

I'm thinking I might have this, could you please answer to my questions? How did this disorder manifest? In what everyday things do you think it affected you and how?

[@alanberkeley7282]

Do you? The DSM refuses to recognize it.

[@Hermelu]

you can be proud of yourself! keep pushing friend and I hope that you can get all the help and support that you need

[@mattrowlett9976]

"...but then journalism isn't about the truth anymore is it?" Based Barkley is Best Barkley

[@mediocresumo1]

I never heard about SCT before but my psychitrist gave me this diagnose. Im now taking Concerta and as a 29yo man I see how much ive been missing in my mind.

[@rlguerrero2263]

So, your doctor prescribed Concerta. How do you feel after taking it, please?

[@mediocresumo1]

R L Guerrero I believe my dose is still a bit high, I can feel the "high" and eventually the "down" a bit too intensely. But whenever my brains reacting fine I can feel that im focused on my thinking and work its truly mindblowing.

[@mediocresumo1]

@Dude Sweet Hey im still taking it, sometimes I dont take it for a bit because I feel like I can work without it but then I quickly regret that decision.

[@notricky1680]

are there any over the counter alternatives to that? I doubt many psychiatrists would know about this for me

[@williamwilliams1000]

I'll be switching from Adderall to this now. Thank you.

[@ryanfrederick508]

This guy puts most doctors to shame with claims of specialization in add/ADHD

[@alanberkeley7282]

He's a corrupt big pharma mouthpiece who should be locked up.

[@alanberkeley7282]

Let him come to Vancouver and see what reception he will get from me.

[@coreyrusko749]

@@alanberkeley7282 Medication is the only thing that effectively manages ADHD

[@birgittestby9533]

@@coreyrusko749 Treatment of ADHD consists of a comprehensive treatment program, medication alone will not be sufficient to deal with ADHD symptoms. Often it will require combining with other measures and behavioral therapy etc.

[@lindsaywright6487]

@@birgittestby9533 I have always only been on medication and my symptoms have been less debilitating. my doctor has my diagnosis as predominantly inattentive. has this been debunked? is there really an inattentive type of ADHD?

[@yay-cat]

I think that procrastination is a bigger problem with SCT because I believe I have an irrational fear / phobia that's preventing me from starting a tast. A sense of dread that is disproportionate to any frustration I may experience doing the task. Daydreaming is escapism from the malaise. So I'm looking into going to chat to a CBT therapist about phobias (rather than an ADHD intervention though some tips on improving EF would be great). I think the "phobia" is a learned negative reinforcement behaviour so hopefully it can be unlearned. Before medication I used to view homework as a Herculean effort to suffer though (damn I hate the saying "nose to the grindstone"). I'm an analytical adhd problem solver but it's like I don't have the fuel to get going / replace the fog with clarity. In terms of medication I think that there is a notable improvement in this phobia-procrastination situation with cortisol/cortisone. I get an allergy shot of some cortisol steroid, and I feel more in attack mode (vs defensively retracting) when I go into ketosis (raised cortisol side effect of the diet) I would be interested to see the effect of breathing and sleep quality on the brain fog. Perhaps mayofunctional therapy. Since practicing nose breathing, regular exercise, and strict sleep schedule I find that my brain fog improves significantly. (As a person with ADHD I find it tough to stick to though) Also a ketogenic diet seems to help with brain fog and sugar lows (even harder to stick to). All of the above help with my allergies so I don't know what's correlation/causation. The stimulant meds give me a boost in mental arousal (periscope above the fog / feeling "switched on" rather than muddled and a bit overwhelmed, lost, useless) and a burst of hyperactivity mania which is extremely useful to get the ball rolling. The anxiety associated with the medication helps me to realise that my task is important and urgent and that fear > dread of doing task. So it helps to get stuff done. But this is clearly also contributing to the phobia negative reinforcement cycle or "building the wall of awful I need to get over to get started with a task" If I take stimulants when I'm tired or burnt out they don't work and the use of stimulants means I'm more prone to burnout. If I continue to work and use stimulants to whip the donkey when I'm already in a burnout state it leads to depression. Was easily treated with Zoloft and change in environment (left university). Took a long time after stopping medication before my creativity (useful mind wondering) returned. If I procrastinate while the stimulants are kicking in I get trapped in manic mind wondering creativity (fun/useful occasionally) and then I get a very heavy oppressive brain fog feeling. Static on the channel, headache, tension, feeling overwhelmed, muddled, and anxious. feels like a physical weight is pulling by brain. So more meds don't help but no meds are worse. I think I have ADHD and SCT and the issues causing me the most impairment are 1) Procrastination phobia-escapism [stimulants allow manic escapism] 2) executive functioning challenges (esp impulsivity etc) 3)Brain fog and having to deal with trying to power through an 8 hour work day 4)Apathy / struggling to find and maintain enthusiasm for work I know to be important 5) Distratability because I'm working from home - might be better in the office which has a feeling of accountability with boss lurking around. 6)guilt driven withdrawal (I have a bubbly personality on holiday). Self esteem issues due to incompetence. Not nearly at depression but I'm feeling down. 7) My job entails occasionally dealing with people or going to site. Reckon I've gotten over most social anxiety issues of my youth but stimulants make it very hard to be charming and building good relationships with clients/suppliers. Also the minor depressive feelings don't help. I like the variety in my job so I cope ok with this one. I wish research could be fast forwarded by a decade or two. Maybe get some pro biotics and dietary intervention that helps dopamine etc more than stimulants. There goes the day dreaming again.

[@yay-cat]

the stimulants give adrenaline/stress. I think cortisol is a stress hormone too. I've seem some abstracts relating to cortisol and ADHD but I think that any studies would be much more effective if the looked at SCT instead. Using cortisol to treat phobias (snakes or whatever) is apparently clinically useful.

[@hanskraut2018]

What a amazing person. He will be insanely missed in the adhd research space. I dont know what the researchers will do without him. He does not even seem to have a 100% perfect understanding of adhd (altho its waaaay better than what i hear from other researchers maybe because he had a adhd twin brother he could see all his life) and he is the best 😥 Man it does not look bright without him :((((

[@Megan-ms7hy]

Are there any SCT studies going on right now that I could volunteer for? I have ADHD Inattentive (ADD) but, I have other symptoms that aren't under the ADHD umbrella at all, but are all under SCT. I'd like to find out if I have it and help to add to the research so that we all can have a better understanding of SCT or CDD (Concentration Deficit Disorder) as you prefer. ^_^

[@carolayathlete9527]

I agreed about your test. Many Professionals malfunction their careers and many people is getting troubles in their life. I love your video thank you for educating us.

[@maryshine1st]

Thank you for posting this. It describes me perfectly.

[@thefarewell]

Thank you so much for all of your research, it is indeed very needed in this stage of humankind. I am 30 and been diagnosed throughout my life just like Cássio Domingues (here in the comments below). I suffered a lot until I started doing my own research and this of course all thanks to Dr. Barkley. Thank you so much for those 35+ years of research, we all love you so much :)

[@george-constantinarnautoiu4688]

Fantastic Congratulations Professor And THANK YOU the only 1.5 hour in my life I was complety captivated.

[@missfitzwilliam906]

This was so illuminating. Thank you 🎉

[@nowie4007]

Now , finally someone told the story of my life 😮

[@Bobby-lv2kr]

I am 42 and SCT symptoms define me well, Ritalin wasn't helpful for me, I was under achieved throughout my life and as I am getting old it seems the symptoms are getting worst, I am now too slow to complete a task, forgetfulness is increased, sleepy most of the time, Absentmindedness and slow brain processing was always there, I try to remain inside home most of the time because of the lack of social skills, Nowadays I am living a completely isolated life with no friends ,

[@InterplanetJanet84]

Same here too

[@Ignasimp]

Then fight against it. I'm not saying it's easy but it's the only way.

[@perverse_ince]

Half your age, but same, in training currently, but no work perfomance increase, will probably return to NEETdom again. Its all very tiresome, being a retard and such

[@runharper178]

Oh my friend I understand

[@walidsarwary]

Hello, I wanted to know that does sluggish cognitive tempo effect memory? like let's say if someone give you 5 words to memorize, can you do it ?, I have sluggish cognitive tempo I have a very hard time to process information and learn new things I had always trouble at school job and everything in life now I am concerned about my memory does this happen to you?

[@neptronix]

Thank you so much for this video. Helped me understand myself a lot better :)

[@nowie4007]

Thank you sir so much for this lecture on SCT❤

[@marthahirsch1349]

Thank you Doctor Russell for the for the most informative presentation regarding differential diagnosis of different disorders . The different interventions presented are an eye opener for clinicians. I hope you succeed in changing the name of SCT disorder to Concentration Deficit Disorder. It is more appropriate and compassionate. While listening to the presentation, I observed that some of the symptoms of SCT are similar to symptoms related to Hypothyroidism. In our country, the USA, doctors use only Blood test to diagnose Thyroid Disorders . Often is not accurate. In Europe ,doctors use 24hour urine sample in addition to blood test. This produces give a more accurate diagnosis. Have you or other researchers have ruled out Hypothyroidism as one is the causes of SCT Martha Hirsch

[@runharper178]

Finally someone gets it but I struggle day to day with this !

[@Sereno44]

How the Psychiatrists can be updated in this so common disease? In Latin America, Physicians and Psychiatrists know nothing about this serious condition

[@Fuchsia_tude]

Sometimes if no one you find knows a condition, you have to educate them about it yourself. You might have to give them some literature about it, or at least point them to it.

[@chrisbuchanan8579]

You know I think the Architect from the matrix may be onto something

[@Mak7even]

🤣🤣🤣

[@glesgatruth6844]

There's a sct Facebook page with 464 members .

[@jkey2847]

And reddit group with 4k now :D

[@TheOldSchoolGamer93]

I believe I have this disorder but I think the odds are long that we'll see this on a DSM anytime soon, if ever. Theres just too many overlaps

[@alanberkeley7282]

I hope not

[@Dani_1012]

I just discovered this and I realized I have almost every symptom... this explains too much..

[@alanberkeley7282]

@@Dani_1012 Yes it sums me up as well as it does anybody

[@SecondLifeDesigner]

The fact that the ADHD drugs don't work should really get it across to the people who control the DSM that CDD or SCT is really a completely different condition. I also believe I have CDD and not ADHD which I was diagnosed with 10 years ago in my 40s.

[@l.j.7540]

@@alanberkeley7282 I wonder what are your intentions

[@nicolebogda1482]

My P’s, teachers, etc… in my generation (X) did not BELIEVE it was an actual disorder! Let alone mental health- so 46 yrs later? Diagnosed as “it’s possible 🤷‍♀️” however in yours & MULTIPLE posts I am 100% adhd. However include environmental factors, lack of support, etc. I have been on a downward spiral, so far as I can tell, for decades. My IQ went from “HOLY CRAP!!!!!” To…. Let’s just say, a steady decline. This breaks my heart but better to own it & learn than to ignore it. So ty for all you do!

[@nicolebogda1482]

Omg, 😱SO MANY QUESTIONS! 1st IQ TEST? 174. Continued to drop. P’s both alcoholics w/ mental illness history. Now when I should be at my highest point in my life? I am a fantastic disaster. If nothing else, I am learning SO MUCH HERE! Smh~ my poor nephews. So grateful I decided not ti have children in grade 5 & stuck to it. This lecture is so enlightening it is blowing my mind!!! 🤯💜

[@Squirrelbear5950]

I don’t think rating scales are sufficient to diagnose someone with ADHD at least for inattentive type. When I was 18 my mom and I filled out these rating scales and I gave some to three different teachers. My mother’s and I answers fit the diagnostic criteria but my teachers didn’t so I did not receive a diagnosis. It wasn’t until I told them I spent 8 hours on the SATs and I didn’t even complete half that they gave a diagnosis of inattentive type and they prescribed me medication. And this was at Dartmouth medical center, one of the best hospitals in the world. They would not give me a neuropsych evaluation because of insurance or something. About a year latter I was required to be evaluated for school and the evaluation confirmed the diagnosis and was very insightful. And if I recall correctly those rating scale forms were heavily focused on hyperactivity and combined typed symptoms.

[@bettyharrison9537]

Sluggish is awful, even worse than deficits! Those labels kept me from admitting my problem for 70 years. Thank you Dr Barclay. Please keep working to change the name of our syndrome. These insulting words damage children.

[@bettyharrison9537]

Names I would Prefer: Focus disregulation; Hyper Focus; Delayed Executive function … there are so many possibilities not to be mean to children.

[@sarahpecaskie]

This needs a TL,DR.

[@GIO5000]

i did have to watch it segment to finish, and when I did I was doing something else as I was hearing this

[@heywoodjabozoff9383]

the people w/ ADHD left before making that comment.

[@NuNaKri]

The symptoms fit me very well. Modafinil helps me a lot with my tiredness. I hope, the ICD will add SCT soon :) I am happy I found Dr. Barkley, he explayns everything very well!

[@mrchips.9245]

Does modafinil helps with energy and arousal?

[@george-constantinarnautoiu4688]

Fabulous Fabulos Fabulous Fantastic

[@jimgrable4619]

I remember listening to you a few years ago. You said that SCT affected the rear lobe of the brain. The reason I stumbled onto your website is because I was searching for help with my tempo as a musician. I have been diagnosed with ADHD by 3 different proper neurological sources. I have discovered that tempo is handled in the rear lobe. To test my tempo issues, I use "Got Rythumn?", by Concert Hotels and I am always way off, before and after the beat. The app sets a tempo and you tap along with it. Then the beat fades away so the you are tapping all by yourself, then there is a tree graph that shows you how infront of or how behind you are with the beat. I am curious if this could be an indicator for SCT. I may have SCT instead of ADHD.

[@Merip1214]

I actually never thought about this aspect of it, but I have indeed also struggled with keeping tempo (flashbacks to early music exams where I had to clap in time...) And it's still something that takes nearly all my concentration when I play in my local (extremely low standards) band. My music teacher (and I, let's be honest) never understood why I could play a difficult Mozart piece, but still didn't manage to keep time on a slow 3/4 piece xD Edit: I tried that app you mentioned and was just mostly really late xD

[@xtremegamer4696]

Hmmmm I definitely have the h type of ADHD, but I don't know if that entire excludes me from having SCT, but have had insane problems with tempo while studying trumpet.

[@lilianaalonso6121]

This is my son. He just got diagnosed today. He was tested for years for ADD and he didn’t have it. But today a neurologist diagnosed him with this.

[@rayantft7382]

Hello, what medication is he given to increase its focus ?

[@bryanburnett1334]

That’s me.

[@maryshine1st]

That is me two. I was diagnosed twenty years ago at age six with ADD. Now I know it is STC

[@runnerbean2614]

Could SCT be akin Korsakoff syndrome, (but milder, happen when the brain is still developing and flexible, and less associated with alcohol abuse)?

[@runnerbean2614]

Is there any link with malnutrition (particularly prenatal stress /malnutrition e.g in hyperemesis gravidarum) and SCT style symptoms? Or maybe another common denominator could be any change to the brain, which has an impact on sleep architecture/REMS sleep... Or could long term consequences of subclinical thiamine deficiency/ refeeding syndrome be a factor? E.g. from Chemotherapy, cachexia, HG, fetal alchohol spectrum disorder, poor food absorption...ect.?

[@bigbeautifulsnowflake7546]

Surely many behavioural abnormalities are associated with nutrient deficiency of the mother/child - but what makes you see a direct link between nutrient deficiency and SCT specifically?

[@HS-xj1tr]

I was in fetal distress and my heart rate went down and had to have a emergency c section. My belief is that is the cause of my SCT. I lost some brain cells that day to bad it’s to late to sue for my Doctor’s negligence. Now I’m stuck with this curse.

[@HS-xj1tr]

Also do any of you have dark circles?

[@zombiielover498]

H S hello! I went into fetal distress as well, and my mother had to go into an emergency c section. My mother was a young mom with no support and unfortunately had no idea how to care for me. She would give me sugar water ?? Because that’s how poor people survived in her country. Also, I am the ONLY one with dark eye circles :)

[@zombiielover498]

How do you all respond to caffeine? For me, i believe I’m sensitive. And only need a little feel a lot all day. First it’s euphoric, then feeling agitated and anxious.

[@mb-iq3od]

How do you know If you have both adhd and sct combined ?

[@idin03]

@Sir Toad difficult to say, but i think a bigger problem is when you have other commorbid disorders. in my case, i relate to SCT ( not everything ), but i also officially diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder and major depression. when i first got diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder many years back ( already had existing depression diagnosis ), i also had taken an adhd test that involved reaction related tasks and observing of omission errors. for me, my reaction times were actually above average, i think possibly labelled as "Superior", ( i was putting a lot of effort of course ), but i did end up having a lot of omission errors. i remember during part of the test, it was hard for me to get back on the test and move on after i messed up / made a mistake or whatever, and that was what the omissions were, basically the thing that would continuously pop up on the computer screen that i had to press a button for, i ended up not doing anything for several seconds after i clicked at the wrong time once or more, that's why i said i got "Stuck". the end result did not show me as having ADHD, and i do not believe i have "ADHD". however, i do relate to executive functioning problems, but the cause for it remains unclear, since there can be so many different reasons that can cause executive functioning issues, and this is also why i feel like the whole ADHD condition is overly broad and problematic. there is lucid aspect to it that makes sense if you have the so called genetic version that operates in a certain way, regardless of personality, environmental factors, etc, but even this is unclear. for example one person can meet the same exact criteria and symptoms as another person with ADHD, but when you look at their brains on a neurological level / brain scans, it shows them as having different structural impairments / brain signaling. like i would say there is good prognosis for those who have the more stereotypical ADHD condition who do not have other more commorbid severe mental health conditions. but if you're like me with more diverse problems / complex problems, particularly that aren't just genetic related, but are in combination related to personality, environment, living circumstances, etc, then it can be very tough to live and function.

[@andrews9695]

@Erica M I think the opposite he clearly states that it's possible to have both adhd and SCT when most of his graphs show that if you have both your performance in school and work and in every location is much worse then if you have either by themselves.

[@runharper178]

Why did it take me so long to find this ? Sct

[@Counterreactionary]

He says, around 37 minutes in, that ADHD is negatively correlated with IQ and that "people with ADHD will find their IQ continuing to decline the longer they have their disorder". Seriously? I wonder where the source/explanation for that is. Or if there's a misunderstanding or mistake there. I thought Barkley held that ADHD is a *performance disorder*, not a knowledge (or intelligence) disorder. That's worrying.. I could only find vague references, access-restricted publications and tons of different research reports that didn't seem to be detailing it...

[@SlyNine]

IQ is not knowledge. IQ Is more about performance and ability. In fact iq tests were specifically designed to separate the two.

[@Counterreactionary]

Well, many IQ tests do *also* account for performance and executive functions, so in that way it makes sense that ADHD would negatively correlate with IQ.

[@AronThePokemon]

Counterreactionary yes the last thing you wrote here is exactly what this Dr. says in one of his 2015/16 lectures. IQ tests involve using one’s executive function so a lower score will be reported, not that it will be a wholly accurate assessment of your intelligence

[@stephanienorman7256]

Memory declines as you age faster than non-adhd people.

[@johns966]

I wonder if SCT correlates highly with having the MTHFR mutation.

[@Schwabian]

What’s that?

[@johns966]

@@Schwabian www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-integrationist/201409/genetic-mutation-can-affect-mental-physical-health Its a mutation that affects how well your body converts folic acid into methylfolate. That's the form your brain uses. If you have it you supposedly need to take L-methylfolate as a supplement. I tried it and it helped a little but had better luck with MAOIs. (old effective antidepressants)

[@HalendleofLoc]

100% certain I have SCT and what even is anything zzzz

[@capgains]

42, mba, no meaningful experience. Behind decades. Smart gets paid. Good luck me. Poor me. Yes I feel bad for myself and committed to this.

[@jkey2847]

Its me

[@SeraphimZero]

Sadly I can only gice one like... What would be left if you take CDS (SCT) out of ADHD? Would that remove the whole inattentive symptoms?

[@caitm8209]

Treating my sleep apnea helped my SCT largely. Adderrall too. But I am still left with ADHD innattentive type despite treatment. Anyway, how much is there a relationship between SCT and sleep apnea? Because sleep apnea treatment stopped my deppression which no drug could ever do. And I stopped spacing out into a fog of nonexistence....Now I exist and even have energy but I can't keep up with time or organize anything properly in my world.

[@caitm8209]

talking of methylphenidate though, I did try concerta and it did help my relationship with time. It slowed everything down so I could be really really present socially. I loved that about it! It cured my anxiety cometely. However it gave me crazy heart palpitations. Adderall does not slow the world down that way so I can feel in tune with everything around me like cpncerta did. However aderall makes me more alert and focused so I can do paperwork and barely bat an eye about it. But it does not help me with anything concerta helped me with. And it does not help most exec functions at all. Especially time. Nothing seems to help time. Maybe a new brain. Give me the brain transplant.

[@Desh681]

1:01:15 - The third point. I thought SCT has no links to EF deficiencies. But doesn't motor controls/spelling/writing disorders count as Executive Functioning reduction?

[@cecelia439]

Hey I have this

[@neptronix]

Gotta counter something he said. I have SCT and the only thing that really helps is adrafanil/modafinil in very small doses. Caffiene helps a lot. Went through adderal/ritalin already.

[@MG-hg1sq]

i have it

[@Kaimli]

I know it can be quite tempting to do so, but please folks dont self diagnose. If you can get diagnosed. If you want a second or third or fourth opinion get them but dont think you can do a psychologists job because you watched one speech.

[@Phoenician_kang]

i may have this, including adhd (diagnosed, i do have severe issues with procrastination, time blindess, and I was very impulsive and hyperactive as a child, but I've learnt to suppress it), and asperges (undiagnosed). Holy fuck... i supposedly should be extremely impaired, but I'm a college student barley hanging on.

[@ohmmohmm210]

It describes what i have

[@PearsAreOkay]

How is SCT diagnosed?

[@majabahlenberg6955]

PearsAreOkay SCT is the ADD diagnos, they are the same. But this is new fact, so we still use the name ADD, but i think it will change to SCT, together with the new facts in the future.

[@majabahlenberg6955]

You need to talk to your doktor that you think you have ADD, and that you want to find out if you have it.

[@jamievantries5733]

PearsAreOkay It's not. It's not currently considered a diagnosis. I asked my therapist why I (function in a specific way) and she just said "you have what's called sluggish cognitive tempo." But it's not something that would be listed in my medical records or anything because it's not currently a diagnosis.

[@LindaengelustrupBlogspot]

I wonder why Russel didn't mention the cronic forgetfullness and the struggle with timemanagement, which in my oppion are some of the worsts parts of ADD/SCT, but that's just how I experience my ADD, maybe others have it different? Maybe he did mention it, and that I just zoned out while he said it somewhere? Btw. On the myers briggs tests I score "the daydreamer" (INFP)

[@Bobby-lv2kr]

Thats me .....cronic forgetfullness and the struggle with timemanagement and daydreamer no energy to do anything

[@ezgisirin8402]

I am completely the same (including infp)

[@brasschick4214]

Yep, my issues as well.

[@idin03]

i have two theories on SCT so far, either it is correlated with psychosis and / or conditions such as schizotypal personality disorder and schizoaffective disorder ( that the person would later on develop ) into adulthood or we are looking at a different group that would relate to the more pure avoidant personality disorders or depressive personality disorder ( which technically isn't in the newer dsm anymore ), now another combination or type could be depicted, however, that type i would then label as the ADHD-PI, ADHD-I or inattentive type ADHD which i would no longer put into the SCT group, however, i'm not able to really give a bigger conclusion for this one. also what i mean by psychosis is not the symptoms of psychosis that include hearing voices or seeing things that are not there or "delusions", now if you can give me a understanding of psychosis that isn't those, that maybe we can be heading into the right direction, because if it ain't those, all that would be left is mere symptoms that anyone can experience such as agitation, irritability, catatonia, etc. by definition, an uncontrollable anger outburst would then still be labelled as "psychosis"...., you get my point, they aren't explaining anything in qualitative detail of what's what and why whatever is happening. yes, barkley did mention to not confuse SCT with schizotypal personality disorder, in that those with schizotypal personality disorder are odd / peculiar or aloof and that SCT individuals aren't. now that's fine to say that, but he never said that it can't be possible for someone to have both, which is what i mentioned in my first paragraph that someone who has SCT may naturally then develop into schizotypal PD or other conditions, schizoaffective disorder being one of them, and there is no reason why SCT individuals wouldn't, considering these specific disorders are you could say related to the "internalizing" types of disorders, and ADHD isn't. although technically research has shown that there is schizotypal phenotype that isn't odd or peculiar and i would say i would fall more under that category, at least how i am to the public, although there are just as many people who would say i more "normal" as there are that would consider me as being "odd" in some way because of me functioning or doing things a little differently than the normal. both perceptions are impairing to me in different ways, the part of people calling me "normal" is because they see my problems as trivial or that i'm a simpleton to them, "simple" or simple minded and that i just "overthink" things when they are just dumb, shallow, simple and shitty people themselves. the part people may see me as odd is possibly that i dont "Get things" like they do or would or that i'm supposed to see things in the way that they do and that how i interpret it is the "wrong way" and that i should be looking it at it this way or that i should react to it this way and i wish i could just shake them out of their stupidity, although actively trying to do so has been ineffective up to this point because these people are just impenetrable...., the majority of them were people who had bipolar disorder, manic depressive types of illnesses, schizophrenia or older people (30/40 or older) which i'd assume would have been more "mature" but clearly they weren't, what's ironic is that after i'd make a point on something, i'll immediately notice that this causes a subtle emotional type of response and envy, subtle as in the average shallow stupid shitty person wouldn't realize, in which they'd fool me by trying to make me be "agreeable" or accepting to their point about whatever it is that they made a point on in attempt to make me feel better by treating me like a simpleton and oh you poor thing type of way, and then after i respond back very straightforward and blunt in disagreement in a way like your point is stupid and not reflective of any qualitative matter, they then bite their lips as if i'm the stupid one or that i took their perspective or point in the "wrong" way when they're too dumb to realize their egotistic stupid way of assertion didn't work on me and the only ones that they fooled were themselves. oh and btw, i relate more specifically to the "timorous schizotypal". i want to also make it clear that the more proper studies of SCT will be harder to find, because if you're looking at one that was done on university students, particularly those of non clinical populations which i actually have a printed copy of, then those should be ignored as their useless and invalid to say the least. the studies should be done on those of the clinical population, no higher than college settings, although this itself portrays one of my points in that if SCT really is what it is and what barkley has described of it, you really should not have those in universities that have it, SCT people in my opinion are barely average joes and in overall functioning, university level isn't. yes, some average IQ people may be found in university populations, but that would just contradict the whole point of the SCT condition as being a disorder, because if these SCT people can just luckily get by just like anyone else would that doesn't necessarily have a disorder, then why even people these SCT people in a impairing category or disorder in the first place? and so this is why i have a lot of frustration in research up to this point, because i feel like there hasn't been enough proper research done on what is what and finding this out would be needed in clinical populations which rarely is done for these kinds of things, at least for larger sample sizes. also other reasons why i put SCT into the earlier categories related to psychosis or personality disorders is because biologically / developmentally wise and personality, it would make sense that these people eventually turn out the way that they are, because as someone who SCT fits me, i also have a diagnosis of schizotypal personality disorder, major depression, and most recent, schizoaffective disorder. I started having functioning more in the SCT profile from probably late 5th grade till now, or you could just say before / around puberty time till now, and now i'm 26. and that also perfectly aligns with barkley's analysis on SCT that they start showing "symptoms" when they around age 10-11 or so.

[@AronThePokemon]

idin03 I can’t properly reply to a majority of your thoughts because I’m so new to these topics in general, and in the realm of schizophrenia I know nothing, but in regard to one segment of your speculation above, about the invalidation of drawing non-clinical research on college students, I totally agree that it would lead to ineffective/inaccurate findings. But not because of the reasons you suggested. Respectfully, I must disagree about SCT sufferers being considered as average joes. I watched one of the Dr.’s lectures from years ago explaining SCT and the early studies conducted on the then-speculative disorder. From what is gathered in the lecture is that SCT sufferers have a range of IQs and the disorder doesn’t effect their IQ or level of intelligence, which is the same for ADHD people. I believe it’s safe to assume that there are plenty of people with undiagnosed SCT attending a college/university. Yes, SCT impairs the sufferer in many ways. It puts up numerous daily hurdles for a student, as is what happens with ADHD people. It makes concentrating hard for these people, committing to studying, getting things done effectively and efficiently. This is because they zone out frequently. They daydream, literally, or so to speak, whichever, not sure. But these hurdles won’t prevent somebody from attending a college or university or effect their intelligence, it just makes it harder for them to maintain grades, pay attention in studying and while in class. They may score lower on exams as a result or may even be more likely to drop out of school, but based on my personal experience dealing with ADD while in college, which poses similar problems and hurdles that those with SCT deal with, I still persevered despite all the odds and hardships and I inevitably prevailed. It was with great struggle; arguably with much greater struggle than the next person over. But still very possible to succeed.

[@Phoenician_kang]

schizoid, not schizotypal, as it includes magical thinking.

[@bigbeautifulsnowflake7546]

Are there common sense treatment options anyone with SCT-like symptoms can do? Combat anxiety with CBT and decrease an overactive default mode network via meditation?

[@Ignasimp]

Omg, i think I know what i have!

[@nicolebogda1482]

There is also a MASSIVE difference with conditioned masking! Can you please explain more re: generational diagnoses, masking, conditioning vs. neural-genetic disorders? Ty~

[@Realmediamashup]

Pathological Daydreamer is a better name than SCT

[@falconcourt8740]

This, when i heard him say it i had too laugh out loud cause i have been describing myself like that for years

[@naito666]

Am i the only one who got very distracted and annoyed by the fact that the collar on his shirt is not buttoned down on his left side? :/

[@MG-hg1sq]

Why do you have 3 x the 6 in you name ?

[@macchiatohanamiya8159]

我想要中文

[@Py16777216]

SCT hmmm, watched over half the video wondering what SCT stands for. Lol

[@alanberkeley7282]

Disorders that are actually in the DSM 5. Can you keep your face straight? Female orgasmic disorder Caffeine disorder Oppositional Defiant Disorder Alcohol use disorder, mild Grieving Gaming Disorder Transvestic disorder Alcohol withdrawal [but no psych-drug] Delayed ejaculation Stimulant use disorder (ironic?) Tobacco use disorder They rejected Barkley's Sluggish Cognitive Tempo Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT) is an attention disorder associated with the following symptoms that resemble signs of inattentive ADHD: excessive day dreaming; behaving lethargically; poor memory retrieval; trouble staying alert in boring situations; slow processing of information; and acting withdrawn according to Barkley. They also rejected his close ally, friend and colleague Joseph Biederman, Childhood Bipolar, who declared that he is "God", took 1.6 million dollars from big pharma and didn't declare it, and says kids can develop Childhood Bipolar as soon as a child is born. And bear in mind the DSM committee is made up on people over half have Big Pharma links. So how the fuck can you take Barkley serious or anything he says seriously? You the public are being fooled by these quacks, and the sooner you stop listening to Barkley, Biederman and Ned Hallowell and their sort the better. In opinion you must be a bit fucked up to even accept this shit in the DSM let alone think it up.

[@JesusChristReturn]

I don’t know who you are, or who you think you are. What you’re saying is fucking ignorant and people like you is the reason people like me who actually have altered neurochemistry and structural brain differences will never be treated due to lack of funding/research. LISTEN CLOSELY WHEN I SAY THIS: THE ONLY reason you are saying this shit is because you DONT have SCT or else you would know how very real it is. I now know that you’re very delusional and a sceptical unscientific conspiracy theorist with no interest of doing anything constructive for anyone. You will go on to live a miserable life due to your incompetence and lack of intelligence (generally) and in how markets of psychiatry work.

[@user33509]

Maladaptive Daydreaming (Eli Somer 2002)

[@dickn.ormous1064]

The problem with Barkley is he hardly brings other neurodevelopmental disorders into the equation.Developmental coordination disorder does cause many executive function problems and can cause lethargy and tiredness due to muscle fatigue.Adhd-dcd comorbidity is around 50% yet in most studies DCD is not controlled.

[@anesytaana3942]

Seems like maladaptive daydreaming...

[@jayocaine2946]

I sure hope he's wrong, because now I feel hopeless because of the iq stuff, how am I supposed to become a great programmer

[@ataarono]

Why don't you ask chatGPT

[@timw5158]

Do the wim hoff breathing method and cold shower once or twice a day and you will see major improvements. Should see them on fist session.

[@timw5158]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKumko2Hpqamb6s

[@rlguerrero2263]

Hahahaha

[@samdoc1528]

It is simply ADD, one of the subtypes of ADHD. Symptoms can vary from individual to individual, so that doesn't mean its a separate disorder. What if i categorize SCT as depressive disorder unspecified type, DSM will surely include it.

[@Lord_Thistlewick_Flanders]

I think it's easy to dismiss this as simply Adhd, But the failure of the stimulants on SCT matches my own experience to a tee. I never benefited from Dexies or Ritalin. And the higher the dose the worse my performance. That is the opposite response someone with ADHD should have so they are not the same IMO.

[@jamievantries5733]

Sam Doc Towards the end of the video he explained precisely why it's different from ADHD and other diagnoses and why it should become an actual diagnosis.

[@idin03]

@@Lord_Thistlewick_Flanders i think one of the bigger issue most people misunderstand about SCT is that the problems they express are all or almost all quantitative in nature, rather than qualitative. ADHD is 100 percent a quantitative issue, not qualitative, yet when you go on all these online communities that mention SCT, they never mention anything related to qualitative psychosocial impact, it's always along the lines of quantitative issues ( i'm talking Reddit fo rexample ). as a result, you're basically getting people who do not have truly this SCT condition, but rather ADHD subtypes who confuse their problems as being "SCT". and then when you question these folks, they get extremely arrogant, accusing you seeing things in black and white, while not offering a different viewpoint of their own, wile the communities support them at the same time, with others who don't really provide any other vastly differently point, and you end up being the outsider trying to tell them they're misidentifying all of it. but at the end of the day, SCT technically is still all research, so that would mean nobody is "correct" on what it actually is. but surely, that wouldn't be a logical answer, and is lazy. there is enough information and research on it to make a meaningful precise logical point on what it really is or could be, unfortunately, the majority of people misunderstand the MAJORITY of the condition. i haven't came across anyone who actually gave a long description of their history with SCT and prognosis in more detailed qualitative manner. in my case, i do relate to SCT ( not everything ), but enough that i can say i do have "it", however, since i'm also commorbid with schizotypal personality disorder and also have severe depression, it's unclear what's causing what or what came first for example. not to mention i relate to a lot of executive functioning problems, and i always remember having executive functioning related issues, even before my diagnosis of depression in the days were i was more "ok", however, i do not relate to ADHD people or fit the criteria for it, and even got tested many ways and it was ruled out, and i do not believe i have it specifically. now, without saying too much more, i'll finish this post off with that i started having SCT symptoms exactly at the time that Barkley mentioned that it would be evident, which was around age 11 i think or around early puberty.

[@cjzanders5430]

@Sam Doc - I think I agree with you. He seemed to say ADD is just a subtype that ADHD people have on any given day without the Hyper Activity when plenty of people are born without the Hyper Activity and impulsiveness. That makes it easy for him not to compare it to ADD. I also have a feeling ADD people have lower cases of mortality. ADHD being an umbrella term for inattentiveness seems misleading. If he compared the ADD symptoms only to SCT, it probably would've been harder to distinguish.

[@JesusChristReturn]

@@idin03 This comment is just ramblings of BS. SCT was present since as long as I could remember, maybe around 3-4 years old and up. You didnt even care to explain what you meant but "qualitative", everything about SCT has a qualitative nature. They diffrenetiated that ADHD and SCT are distinct, meaning if you have symptoms of SCT, you can also have comorbid ADHD - you're point about these people probably just having subtypes is a clear example that you dont know what "qualitative" means. The qualities of SCT are mindwandering, lethargy, daydreaming, confusion/mind fog and weak engagement of external stimuli. ADHD has qualities of executive dysfunction. The inattentive type without SCT, have qualities of inattention. These SCT and ADHD will be on a spectrum, meaning that they are both going to have a quantitive nature also.

[@alanberkeley7282]

This is what is in the DSM Disorders that are actually in the DSM 5. Can you keep your face straight? Female orgasmic disorder Intermittent Explosive Disorder Caffeine disorder Oppositional Defiant Disorder Alcohol use disorder, mild Grieving Gaming Disorder Transvestic disorder Alcohol withdrawal [but no psych-drug] Delayed ejaculation Stimulant use disorder (ironic?) Tobacco use disorder They narrowly rejected Sluggish Cognitive Tempo. So when shit like that gets in, Barkley's SCT must be very very weak. Sorry folks it doesn't exist. You want kids to be drugged for daydreaming?

[@klippklar314]

There are too few studies and no universally accepted set of symptoms as pointed out in the presentation. It's not surprising, as SCT has been studied for less than 20 years. Even though I share your view on the power of the pharma industry, the lack of knowledge of psychology/psychiatry and the acknowledgment of the conflict of interest, the studies mentioned are clean, thus the conclusions are. Whether there is a bigger interest behind it or not (which in this case probably isn't, as there's no good clinical response to medication in SCT). I think you're making it too easy on yourself drawing black and white conclusions like that.

[@alanberkeley7282]

In 1986 a Teacher said to me that my then 12 year old daughter Louise zoned out in Math class. So I took Louise to see a psychiatrist on his advise. When the results came back from my daughter's tests, I was devastated. The doctor told me that he had never seen anything like it and that the condition is highly unusual. It turns out that Louise was..... completely normal. I said "Does she cause trouble?". "No". "Is she disruptive to other students or yourself?". "No". "Well excuse me Mr Patterson" (Her Teacher) has it dawned on you that perhaps your style of learning isn't conducive for her. Perhaps you need to make your Math lessons more relevant to her. She doesn't seem to daydream in classes that she enjoys or what seem relevant to her". Anyway when she got a different Teacher she seemed to reduce her daydreaming I think she did ok. Nowadays she might be put down as having ADHD or ADD or SCT or Math Anxiety or ODD or Depression.

[@SlyNine]

ADHD has a real neurological basis. That's like saying "now a days my daughter might be prescribed glasses"

[@legend9872]

SlyNine that was SPOT ON

[@l.j.7540]

That's probably because she didn't have adhd Alan . But some have.

[@sarahpecaskie]

No, just because she zoned out once or twice does not mean we would get a diagnosis now. People who getdiagnosed with ADHD or sct because these symptoms, like inattentiveness, zoneing out, they are so prevalent that they severely impact every aspect of their lives. I don't just space out in math class, I do it constantly. And it's not just spacing out, there is more to it than that. I made a video based on what people diagnosed with ADHD pi complain about as their biggest struggles, then I found this video and realized that a lot of us probably have sct as well. Here is the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIbVkmRvj7udgw

[@hiteshjasrotia1531]

They are simply the symptoms of depression.

[@cptant7610]

But they aren't, these symptoms are present regardless of mood and the statistics show different symptom clustering.

[@TrissM]

I have this (add) but I have no depression

[@idin03]

@@cptant7610 i agree, i've been like this since early puberty (11 years old or so till now, now im 26 ), but i'm also gonna give a lot of personalized viewpoints here too that although the SCT and depression are different, the two in my opinion automatically go together, and what i mean by depression isn't the typical form you see people talking about or episodic "depression" that comes and goes where, i'm talking about persistent clinical depression that develops and gets worse over time and seems to "show itself" more pronounce in early adulthood ( seeking mental health services as i have done right after high school due to not feeling right / and we'll depressed ). in other words, someone who truly is "SCT", what i mean by is SCT, is that i see SCT more as a personality type, rather than having something or not and having it is sort of a precursor element to a variety of brain problems and stressors, a lot of which are due to ongoing or past environment, nurturing, social factors, and simply from having a brain chemistry / type that doesn't seem to function / develop properly, which again, caused or at least made worse from a variety of factors. unfortunately, i haven't been able to meet any one like me to have a good comparison ( both in person and online ), i've gotten too many lucid types, that resemble the stereotypes i've seen on both ends repeatingly showing the same thing. SCT in my opinion is one of those things where a lot of people can get mixed up with on what exactly it really is, and as a result, you have a lot of people who are even put into the SCT category when in fact their problems probably doesn't resemble it.

[@Bobby-lv2kr]

@Hitesh Jasrotia Funny to see how a random youtube moron can easily negate the research of Phd scholar who spent his life researching these conditions

[@hiteshjasrotia1531]

@@Bobby-lv2kr one one side he says its SCT, other side he says we are not sure about treatment. Wth.